Conference back40::soapbox

	yes. a gun will do wonders to what one will or will not do.

    	I don't understand.
    
    	What could even lead someone to think that a male couldn't
    	be raped?  (And I ask that question without even taking into
    	consideration anal penetration.)
    
    	If the reasoning behind the question is that a man has to be
    	willing to have an erection, consider that a man can be aroused
    	to erection (and ejaculation) even under total anesthesia.

    Is a man ever worried about being raped by a woman? No, a man walks
    around at night hoping a woman will try and rape him, while a woman
    walks around at night hoping that a man will not rape her.

    Men and women are always running in opposite directions it seems.

    >	If the reasoning behind the question is that a man has to be
    >	willing to have an erection, consider that a man can be aroused
    >	to erection (and ejaculation) even under total anesthesia.
                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    Like Mai Tais? :-)

    I'm not male therefore, I cannot speak physiologically, but...
    
    I just have trouble thinking a man who fears for his life could perform
    intercourse.
    
    And what happens if the woman truly enjoys herself and in the throes of
    passion the gun goes off! :-)  I just can't understand a woman
    maintaining control of the man under these circumstances.
    
    What would the woman do if he was premature? 
    
    I don't know I just find it fascinating that men claim this is the
    case.  And my husband couldn't maintain an erection when he was drunk.

    .5
    
    nancy, rape does not have to be male-into-female.  a woman could rape a
    man by shoving a dildo - or a broomstick - up his arse.  believe it. 
    it's been done, and it's been convicted on.

    .7
    
    Good point.  What if the woman is not only pointing a gun, but is quite
    repulsive in appearance?  You are all assuming that beautiful women
    will rape you.

    As I tried to explain before, there is not some fibre optic
    information highway from the cranium to the penis. Sexual
    arousal and sexual desire are separate, but related functions.
    Sometimes, arousal happens without desire.
    
    Many woman confuse arousal and desire in men (or so it seems).
    For instance Nancy, you seem to mistake the effects alchohol
    has on arousal to with the effects it has on desire. In fact,
    they are often quite the opposite. And for this I'm glad,
    I don't know how many times the fog of alchohol has created a
    desire that otherwise would not have existed, only to be saved
    by a corresponding lack of arousal.
    
    -b

    Yes, I realize that but I'm specifically talking about male to female.

	.3  Glen, what does any of that generalizing have to do with
	    the question Nancy posed?  Are you saying that it just
	    _can't_ happen?
 

    Rape is not a sexual act.  Rape is about power and control that
    sometimes uses the sex organs as the tools of rape.  Both males
    and females can be and are raped by either the same sex or the
    opposite sex.  It is a traumatic experience for the victim who
    sometimes finds that an involuntary, bodily function known as
    orgasm takes place.  This does not mean that the victim is 
    consenting, participating, or enjoying the act of rape.  It 
    just means that the body is responding to a stimulus.  It does
    make the victim feel more trauma emotionally though.

    Rape is a serious matter that has been long mis-understood.

    justme....jacqui

    .13
    
    So then based on your belief about our human functions surrounding sex;
    we are no better than animals.
    
    

    
    
    to a point, yes...
    
    

RE    <<< Note 308.14 by JULIET::MORALES_NA "Sweet Spirit's Gentle Breeze" >>>

>    So then based on your belief about our human functions surrounding sex;
>    we are no better than animals.
    
  We are animals.

  George

    First of all, is rape limited solely to directly saying no, or
    is rape more an issue of lack of appropriate consent? Legally,
    it seems to be the latter.
    
    Consider this: if a man takes a woman home, drugs her, and
    then has sex with her, she has not given appropriate consent.
    He has raped her by the legal definition of rape.
    
    Now, if the woman took the man home, gave him a sleeping pill,
    and otherwise took advantage of his nearly inevitable morning
    erection while he slept, is that not lack of appropriate
    consent? Is it therefore not rape?
    
    -b

    .16
    
    We are mammals... animals to me are different.
    
    I do believe that human life form is a higher species.  You do not?
    

    <<< Note 308.14 by JULIET::MORALES_NA "Sweet Spirit's Gentle Breeze" >>>

    .13
    
    So then based on your belief about our human functions surrounding sex;
    we are no better than animals.
    
*******************


    I did not state what my belief was.  I stated that the act of rape
    using the sex organs as the tools of rape can trigger the human 
    response system into orgasm.  It does not in any way construe that
    it equates us to what you believe is an animalistic behavior.  

    If either a male victim or a female victim has an orgasmic-like 
    response during the act of sexual abuse, it does not make that 
    person any less human.  The abuser is acting in what you call an
    animalistic manner, not the victim.

    justme....jacqui

    Raq,
    
    I am sincerely sorry that you feel that way about sex.  It wasn't that
    long ago in our country where men were exonerated for raping their
    wives, because of this "animalistic" drive.  Or for killing their wives
    when they caught her in adultery.
    
    I am as sincere in my belief that this is to be incorrect.  Passion and
    rage may be animalistic when intense, but this is not a normal human
    function, it is dysfunction.

    Consider this: if a man takes a woman home, drugs her, and
    then has sex with her, she has not given appropriate consent.
    He has raped her by the legal definition of rape.
    
    Now, if the woman took the man home, gave him a sleeping pill,
    and otherwise took advantage of his nearly inevitable morning
    erection while he slept, is that not lack of appropriate
    consent? Is it therefore not rape?
    
    -b
**************************

    These scenarios are both defined as rape legally and emotionally.

    justme....jacqui

>>    Raq,
>>    I am sincerely sorry that you feel that way about sex. 

	What??  How is it that you know how she feels about sex from
	her "to a point, yes" reply?  We are animals, any school
	kid could tell you that.  Your extrapolation is ludicrous.

    	re .3
    
    	I would venture to guess that if a man WANTS to be raped, it's
    	not really rape.

| <<< Note 308.12 by PENUTS::DDESMAISONS "CML IAC RTL RAL" >>>


| .3  Glen, what does any of that generalizing have to do with
| the question Nancy posed?  Are you saying that it just
| _can't_ happen?

	Please put that extra N on when referring to HIM! :-)

    The fact is, men rape women, men rape men. It is very unusual for women
    to rape anyone. It has a lot to do with plumbing, it has a lot to do
    with male aggression.

    Glenn

    To a point Raq believes that our sexual desires are animalistic. 
    That is all I am reckoning based on her response.
    
    
    Now, I believe that there is a difference between human urges and
    an animal's urges.  
    
    It is my opinion that stating human sexual urges are animalistic even
    to the 1/10th degree sets up for rape to be argued as a natural
    behavior in humans.
    
    
    
    

    Ah, but humans have a sense of ethics and believe rape to be wrong.
    It's all due to that large brain creating all sorts of notions. Animals
    do not have this encumbrance, but probably more animals don't rape than
    do. So since we as humans do, what does that say of us?

    Ah, it's just another hair to split.

    
     Re: Note 308.13  BIGQ::GARDNER "justme....jacqui"

   > Rape is not a sexual act.
   
    
    isn't this like saying that bank robbery isn't about money?
    
    bill

    re.13 That was a silly thing to say Mrs...
    
    

    
    
    nancy, do not assume you know how i feel about ANYTHING...because one
    thing is for sure, you have no idea...
    

    
    RE: .25
    
    > male aggression.
    
    Ah..... and when a female is aggressive, she's.. what? A bitch??

    .31
    
    lets fair about this - us men are just as much driven by our hormones
    as women are by theirs. if women can use PMT as an excuse for
    unreasonable behaviour i think it fair that the principle of men being
    driven to aggression by hormones should be allowed. (NB i did not say
    that such behaviour should be condoned - in the same way i think PMT
    should not be allowed  - there are some double standards here)
    
    ric

	ric, let me ask you something. How many men do it, and then roll over
and go to sleep? How many women would like to see it go on for a while longer?
It appears a lot of men are interested in an orgasm, while women are more
interested in intamacy. I think most women are driven by much more than their
hormones, while for many men, this can not be said.


Glen

    .32
    
    yes i agree - i was just saying that women can use their hormones as an
    excuse for bad behaviour but it seems men can't
    
    ric

    .18
    
    > I do believe that human life form is a higher species.
    
    you believe wrong.  we happen to have more highly developed brains than
    other species, but we are animals just the same.
    
    we have the mental capaability to rise above our animal nature - but
    that doesn't mean we aren't animals.

RE    <<< Note 308.18 by JULIET::MORALES_NA "Sweet Spirit's Gentle Breeze" >>>

>    I do believe that human life form is a higher species.  You do not?
    
  Depends on what we've been smoking,

  George

    
    Of course we're animals.  What did you think we were, plants ?
    
    We brag and bluster a lot, in simian fashion.  As a species, however,
    we're actually bush-league.
    
    As to women "raping" men, count me among the doubters.  I think women
    do all sorts of very cruel things to men, but I've never seen this.
    
      bb

    Men are more aggressive than women. Men have a part that was made for
    penetrating, women do not. Put these together and this is why men do
    the raping.

    ><<< Note 308.37 by GAAS::BRAUCHER >>>
    
    >As to women "raping" men, count me among the doubters. 
    
    About 20 years or so ago, a story hit the papers over this side of the
    pond regarding the above. Joyce McKinney was about to lose her lover so
    she tried to get pregnant so that he would stay with her. When he
    rufused to make love, she tied him to the bed and raped him. According
    to the tabliods, she forced him into the act by burning him all over
    his body with a cigarette end.
    
    As to involuntary erection, a little knowledge and a little manipulation 
    of the prostrate gland can make strange things happen.
    
    A friend had an operation on his prostrate gland. He ended up having an
    erection for 5 solid days!!!!!
    
    POL

    You gotta dig up a 20 year old story. See what I mean?

    What is a prostrate gland? A gland just lying on the floor or
    something? Must have been better looking than it sounds to give a guy a
    boner for 5 days.

    Note 308.40 by POLAR::RICHARDSON
    >>>What is a prostrate gland?
    
      Something that you obviously don't use.

>    			she forced him into the act by burning him all over
>    his body with a cigarette end.

alt.sex.marlboro?

	But Glenn, again, the question isn't "Are men raped frequently (by
	women)?".  The question is being posed by someone who can't even
	imagine that it _could_ happen.  Do you think it couldn't??

    
    RE: .37
    
    >Urban legend ?
    
    No...
    
    We all know how cruel and sadistic the Nazis were with their
    experimenting and such in the name of "science" during WWII...
    
     One of the documented instances was taking Jewish males and tying them
    down... having sadistic Nazi females stimulate them to cause an
    erection... then while the penis was still erect, they then inserted glass
    tubes into the penis ala a catheter.... then suddenly bent the penis
    until the tube broke...
    
      All to determine the blood flow to the penis (or some such
    travesty)...
    
    
      Nice ladies.... huh??
    

    Well, yes anything can happen. It requires much planning and technique
    for a woman to rape a man though. It doesn't take much for a man to
    rape a woman.
    
    RE: -?
    
    I don't have a prostrate gland, so you're right I don't use it.

>>           <<< Note 308.45 by POLAR::RICHARDSON "Ooo Ah silly me" >>>
>>    Well, yes anything can happen.     

	Okay, just couldn't tell if you were registering as a "yes"
	or a "no" in this topic.  Apparently, you're a "yes".

    
    
    Thanks for that Andy.  No need to take lunch today......

    
    ok, prostate gland   :>>>>>>>>>>>
    
    I was having a hard time concentrating on both writing the note and
    talking a customer through a LAT printing problem at the same time.
    
    POL$brain_doesn't_do_SMP_properly_any_more        :>>>>>>>>>

    Making this topic a yes or no discussion really is pointless though
    don't you think?

    You wouldn't have strained your imagination had the topic been called,
    "Can a woman be raped?"

    Glenn

    
    re: .47
    
    Wanna know some of the things they did to women??
    
     Naahh... better not... don't want anyone to lose their lunch...
    

>>    You wouldn't have strained your imagination had the topic been called,
>>    "Can a woman be raped?"

	I didn't strain my imagination anyways.  The answer was
	immediately obvious to me.  Nancy appears to have created
	the topic because she doesn't think that a man can be raped.
	That was, therefore, the salient issue - not whether or
	not it happens with the frequency of any other type of rape.

    So this really is a pointless debate. Yes, a man can be raped. So what?

    So what? Ask Nancy? She's the one plan..., er questioning, the
    possibilities! :-) :-) :-)
    
    -b

	exactamundo, mr. markey!  ;>

    This cuddles me.

    Actually Di is right.  The topic was created because I wanted to know
    if it was possible.  Thanks for the answers everyone, albeit rather er
    uh glad I didn't read them before end of day. :-)

    errrrrrrr.
    
    Well here's the beef chief (unintentional pun)
                                         / by a woman
    It is possible for a man to be raped. It does not require a lot
    of planning and whatever. However, it does pose a few problems,
    if some bird walked up to me with a knife and tried to rape me
    I would kick the living <r.o> out of her. If a bird walked up
    to me with a gun however that's a whole different ball game 
    (another unintenional pun). 
    
    That brings me to another point, if this bird was like a body
    builder/martial arts boff or something I don't think a lot of
    men would have much choice in the matter.
    
    Anyone whose lost it enough could rape someone. 

    I would like (for the record) to rephrase part of my last note.
    
    If some bird walked up to me with a knife and tried to rape me
    I would use as much force as needed to prevent this from occuring.

    I wouldn`t.
    
    I`d lie back and think of England.
           

    Been a while has it Stu ?

    I`m still a virgin. I`m saving myself `til I get married.
    
     

	Wow.... guess we'll know what eternity is now, won't we??? :-)

    Nah, somebody'll dig 'im up and love 'im rotten.

	speakin from experience Glenn?

    Well no, but it makes the term "jumping his bones" seem more realistic.

	HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I'm pissin my pants over that
one!

    can a man be snarfed?

    
    apparently so Glenn