Conference back40::soapbox

    
    
    you have to have the right attitude to do something like amway...it's a
    very interesting business...but if you are successful...wow!!  you are
    successful...
    
    and their products are pretty damn good, too...
    
    

    You have to be a good salesman to make a go at it.  The Amway products
    are pretty good, but most people shy away from the name (that's why
    they call it Network Marketing now).  It is pyramid-like, so in order
    to make the big bucks you need to be on top in your area, or at least
    sign up a lot of people to sell under you.  
    
    Outside Amway stuff, they have catalogues for other products, but don't
    expect a good deal on any of it.  Pricing is too close to retail, so
    IMO it's pretty much a joke.  You do have a shot at making a little bit
    off the Amway stuff, if you sell enough of it.
    
    -steve (who's looked it over, but doesn't like the idea of looking at
    everyone as a customer/potential signee)

    >>All you appear to have to do is convince, typically, 10 people to take
    >>up membership and continue the network.
    
    Can be MUCH more difficult than it sounds. You can't recruit just any
    old 10 people. They have to be 10 good people who are highly motivated
    to either sell products or recruit other people. What you must keep
    sight of in a business like this as that SOMEWHERE, somebody has to
    sell product to someone. The recruit, recruit, recruit, philosophy of
    running this type of business can build a big organization quickly, but
    it can become a house of cards that crumbles quickly if nobody is selling
    product.
        
    >>If it's such a good deal (obviously it can't be in all instances
    >>otherwise EVERYONE would be a millionaire), what are the things that
    >>make it work?
    
    Only a very small percentage of the people involved in MLM (Multi-Level
    Marketing) make any serious money. I believe the figure is somewhere
    between 1 and 3%. Typically, those are people who:
    
    	o  get in early
    	o  have a big sphere of influence (lots of contacts)
    	o  can sell
    
    If you are serious about exploring this, I would try to sell the
    product first. This will teach you some important lessons:
    
    	o  How easy/difficult it is to sell
    	o  Who buys it and why
    	o  What works/what doesn't
    	o  How long and how much effort it takes to build up a client base
    	   that can generate a steady stream of product income ($100 / $200
    	   $500 / month ... whatever you think is reasonable)
    
    All of this is important knowledge to have, I think. If you like it at
    this point, then (and only then) I would turn some of my attention to
    recruiting others to sell. You have the kind of information you need to
    recruit others to sell product. Teach them to sell product and get them
    making their own $100 / 200 ... whatever ... per month. THEN teach them
    how to recruit. 
    
    	Downside of this approach:
    		It takes a LOT longer to build up a network
    		Other people who are out there recruiting others to
    			recruit others may use up a lot of the same
    			prospects you might go after ... 'no thanks, I
    			already heard about it from John'.
    
    	Upside of this approach:
    		You'll find out if you like it without making any of
    		  	your friends angry with you
    		Your pyramid will be stronger because it is built on
    			sales volume, not dreams
    		If you decide you hate recruiting and building pyramids
    			you may still have a $200 / month product income
    			that you can keep going for as long as you want
    			to sell product.
    
    Final Comment:  If you are serious about this type of business, it
    can become the equivalent of a second full-time job. You need to think
    about what this means to you (time away from the family, doing the
    business rather than doing things you now do with leisure time, etc.).
    Like anything else; you have to give up something to get something. You
    need to think about what you're willing to give up and whether or not
    that might be worth it to you. As someone noted earlier, some people do
    make a lotta money in this business. Not many have what it takes and
    are dedicated enough to make that happen.
    
    /Intern
    

    Lots of info on Amway and other MLM companies in ::Home_based_business
    conference.  Check the Easynote Conference directory.
    
    Dan
    

    	My wife and I were involved in a similar MLM program 10 years 
    	ago.  We decided we didn't like what we had become when we realized
    	that we were no longer looking at people as family, friends, or
    	potential friends, and instead saw them all as potential sales
    	leads.

    
    
    
    	In MLM why would I want to work under a person who is 10 or 
    	maybe 100 levels below the top. Am I missing something or 
    	should you go right to the first level and sell for that 	
    	person. The profit margins must cascade downward in 
    	dwindling numbers. Are there rules against the uppers
    	recruiting.
    
    
    		Just curious don't call.
    
    
    			DAC
    
    

    Oh man... some of the silliest stuff in my life revolves around
    a brief, and totally awful, encounter with Amway. Fine, they
    have some good products... LoC... I can buy better in the store
    actually (Shackley's Basic H for starters, which blows LoC
    out of the pond), but is all the other total crap that goes
    along with it really worth it? I say no!!!
    
    Two of the creepiest people I ever had the displeasure of
    meeting were the featured speakers at an Amway greed-fest
    I got snookered into. These people made me sick, but what
    was worse was that I saw other people who aspired to be what
    they were. Money isn't everything, in fact it's really not
    much at all... the real stuff isn't available through Amway's
    toll-free numbers I'm afraid.
    
    -b

                         -< CAN YOU PICK YOUR LEVEL? >-

Not as far as I know. I believe that those at the upper levels (as a matter
of fact, probably all but those at the lowest levels) have little or nothing
to do with droids who actually sell stuff.

I'm surprised that so many people have actually gotten sucked into some
of their promos. I think I've only run across Amway types maybe twice in
my life, and each time making a cross with my fingers and holding it in
front of my face was effective.

    I have been approached three times.  I have looked at the literature
    twice.  I started to think about how I would deal with a friend that
    wanted to get me started and said no way.  I think Steve Leech summed
    it pretty well at least for me.  I have a hard time looking at friends
    and family as sales targets.  
    
    Brian

    Please discuss and offer any inputs, annecdotes, experiences.  Is it
    real or fake??
    
    -Jack

	It's REAL Jack! But it's also a scam..... kind of reminds me a Shimmer.

    
    My wife and I allowed friends of a friend to come and give us their
    speil.  I'm much too astute to be taken by marketing hype but I let
    them say their piece (very long piece at that).  It was kind of funny
    because their primary pressure point was the assumed existence of my desire
    for material wealth.  I countered them frequently based upon a
    supposedly shared Christian world view and how their message seemed to
    contradict that view.  They really couldn't respond to this.  And they
    didn't mention "Amway" until I forced them too.
    
    However, it all seemed legitimate. I just didn't buy it.  They never had
    a chance with me; I shop as much as possible at discount
    clubs, buying in bulk whenever I can.  All of this agitates against the
    idea of paying the price for any brand name products (there are a few
    exceptions, of course).
    
    jeff
    
    
    

    
    Jeff is right, mostly. You don't need a Christian world-view to
    resist being a wanton materialist, but basically that's all there
    is to Amway. As I mentioned before, one of the most truly awful
    experiences of my life was the night I got snookered into going
    to listen to some cardboard people talk about all the crap they
    owned thanks to Amway, with the implicit assumption this was
    a good thing.
    
    The other thing that really pisses me off is their marketing
    technique. Rarely, if ever, do they seem to be marketing any
    actual products. It's more focused on snookering people in.
    A few months ago, I got a call from the husband of someone who
    was in my class in high school (and who, like most of the
    people at the snot capital of central Mass, never bothered
    to give me the time of day) saying how, knowing what a fine
    upstanding humin bean I is, they would like to share with
    me a wonderful opportunity in network marketing. They were
    a bit surprised as to location I suggested they send their
    Amway brainwashing tapes.
    
    -b

    Thanks for the tips...but what do you really think of them?? :-)
    
    Seriously, thanks for the input.
    
    -Jack

	Jack, if you're banking on it to help out with extra $$$, ya gonna have
to be real aggressive, and hope that others will even listen. 


Glen

    And be prepared to think of everyone...family, friends, everyone you
    meet in the future, as a potential customer.  
    
    In my limited involvement with the Amway experience, I found that it
    operates like a cult.  It wasn't for me at all.
    
    
    -steve

    -1 yeah, aren't those the folks that shave their heads and hang around
       in airports with tamborines??? :-)
    
       Chip

    The latest/greatest in the culty things for selling in the 
    neighborhood is the RAINBOW.  It supposedly sells itself!
    Try that one.

DEC couldn't sell Rainbows when they were new.

<----bbbbbbaaaaahhaaahhhhaaaaaaaaa great one!

    Amway is a "no no" IMO. I was approached a few years back, then invited
    to this little meeting to have the power of money stuffed down my
    throat. Now I must admitt, money does seem to make the world-go-round
    for me, but.. My conclusion was that Amway appear to induce greed on the
    people it targets and IMO there are enough greedy b** in the world
    already.
    
    The whole thing lasted for about 3-4 weeks, I would ask a question and
    be told "Knowing the answer to that is not appropriate at this stage."
    So for 3-4 weeks, everyweek, this man (who happens to be a friend and
    is a great person, with an amazing ability to suceed in this) came to
    my house to talk about what I would do with hundreds of thousands of
    dollars....... Greed, think only of money, get other people to do the
    work..... Wow the ultimate job. Unfortunately it appeared to have 
    already been done. Nobody would listen to anything after the words
    Amway or Network Marketing had been mentioned, it appears to have
    developed a very bad name for itself. The successful people in this
    business started years and years ago, and made a very large amount of
    money, but there are hardly any success stories anymore.
    
    BTW the products are very good.

The proper way to reply when someone asks you to get involved in Amway, is -

	"Gee - I already have an income in excess of $1.2M per annum.
	 Can I _REALLY_ make more than that starting out with Amway?"

You're guaranteed to at least catch them off guard. With any kind of luck,
they'll walk away in shame wondering why they waste their time with it.

 
   Then again......SOME of these Amway people ARE sleazy, over-bearing, hype-
 spoutin' salepeople NOT all are.

   Like anything else you get out of it what you put into it. It is NOT a 
 get-rich scheme. It is a business that needs time and effort to develop.
 Yes you can buy what they sell for less but if you compare make sure it is
 an apples to apples comparison.

	- Bob

You're not by chance an Amway salesman or relative thereof?

   <<< Note 283.26 by NOTIME::SACKS "Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085" >>>

>You're not by chance an Amway salesman or relative thereof?

  I have met and dealt with Amway salepeople.....

  I was just pointing out that not all salesman are as has been depicted. The
 unfortunate thing is we remember the bad type probably because they outnumber
 the good ones.

	- Bob
  

<----- Bob! Where have you been? Haven't seen you in here in ages!

         <<< Note 283.28 by MOLAR::DELBALSO "I (spade) my (dogface)" >>>

<----- Bob! Where have you been? Haven't seen you in here in ages!


    I changed jobs within Digital after ~12 years in one place.......Been 
  unbelieveably busy (PC Group). Just coming out from under and started reading
  Soapbox again.....Hasn't changed too much.

   - Bob
  

    As an experienced Amway Distributor, I will give you some of the facts
    as opposed to opinions on this business:
    
    	1. The business is mainly built on consumption for your own
    household rather than on selling to others. You may sell if you wish.
    There are approx. 6500 products and services that are distributed
    through the company at present. Everything that you already buy for you
    household elsewhere you can buy from yourself.
    
    	2. It is like any other business in that you get out of it what you
    put into it. Having said that, if you follow the system you can get out
    much more than you'll ever put in. I have some good friends who retired
    (he was a policeman and she was a teacher) after 18 months in the
    business making well over four times their combined salary from their
    Amway business..
    
    	3. There are many different ways of making money...about 37 in
    all... from profit on sales to bonuses. 
    
    	4. In order to make some big money $100,000 + you must help at least 
    3 (not 10 as mentioned in a previous note) other people to get to a level 
    where they are  making approx. $3000 per month. You don't make anything
    from them, but get bonuses from the company profits as you become more
    successful.
    
    	5. One of the big advantages that I see in this business is that in
    order to succeed you need to help some other people to succeed also.
    	
    Some other facts:
    
    	- This business breaks 2 millionaires per month every month
    	- 200 people become direct distributers ($3000+) every month
    	- The business is open and operating in 60 + countries and is
    opening in new countries every month.
    	- The company has had 20% + every year since it began in 1959
    	- Sales totalled in excess of $7bn last year (unofficial)
    
    Bottom Line:
    
    This business works for anyone willing to work at it. The reason that
    it doesn't work for many people is that they are nott willing to put in
    the required effort that it takes. If you want to become financially
    free in 2 to 5 years...and by the way people are doing this all the
    time....then you are going to have to work...but it will be worth it.
    
    Gerry.
    	 
    

    Gerry,
    
    I believe you.  My hangup right now is that my children need me home
    and they won't be young forever.  I know I could stretch it out but I'm
    the type that would want to succeed in a short amount of time.  I have
    friends who are alays traveling, out until midnight once a week, etc.
    The kids are home with the sitter and quite frankly, I think the
    parents and children are missing out on something important. 
    
    So helping others out is good, but there is always a cost!
    
    -Jack

    
    >	4. In order to make some big money $100,000 + you must help at least 
    >3 (not 10 as mentioned in a previous note) other people to get to a level 
    >where they are  making approx. $3000 per month. You don't make anything
    >from them, but get bonuses from the company profits as you become more
    >successful.
    
    
    	And how many people [or levels] do you need underneath you in
    	order for the level directly under you to make $3K/month?
    

    
    I won't get into the reasons, but I would personally (and strongly)
    recommend against Amway. When I'm done you can call my wife. When
    she's done with you, I'll give you a whole list of other people.

    I will say this... Amway recommends that in your search for
    potential "clients" that you get out your high school and college
    yearbooks and call everyone. This is how you grow your business.
    The ONLY way to grow your business is to get other people "under
    you." If you're the type of person that feels that using your
    high school and college yearbooks as a "mailing list" is a moral
    and ethical thing to do, then Amway's for you. It most certainly
    is _not_ for me.

    -b

re: -b

My question for Gerry was whether or not he still had any friends that
weren't Amway patients?

    ahh, i knew some amway-moonies once. i believe they're still in de-
    programming

    
    Perhaps more appropriately, does Gerry have any friends left who, 
    when they see him coming, don't say "Oh no, here comes Gerry with
    that effin' Amway stuff again (groan)..."
    
    
    
    Rob, who doesn't want to have to look at all his friends
    as marketing opportunities
    

           <<< BACK40::BACK40$DKA500:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SOAPBOX.NOTE;1 >>>
                          -< Soapbox.  Just Soapbox. >-
================================================================================
Note 283.33                     Amway/Network 21                        33 of 36
MPGS::MARKEY "Manly yes, but I like it too"          15 lines   2-OCT-1995 17:33
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    >The ONLY way to grow your business is to get other people "under
    >you." 
    
    > -b
    
    
    
    Ohh er, and all that.  But fortunately there is truth to that........

>    	And how many people [or levels] do you need underneath you in
>    	order for the level directly under you to make $3K/month?
    
    You need to have approximately 50 - 75 distributers in your group to be
    making this kind of money. Remember though, all of these people are
    also building their own business and like everything else, some will
    do better than others, depending on the effort they put in. Everyone
    gets the same starter kit, teaching and motivational tapes etc so every
    one has the same oppertunity. It just depends on what you make of it.
    
    Gerry

>    I won't get into the reasons, but I would personally (and strongly)
>    recommend against Amway. When I'm done you can call my wife. When
>    she's done with you, I'll give you a whole list of other people.

    If that's your opinion then that's fine. However there are a lot of
    people who would disagree with you also...particularly the ones who
    have worke this business for what it is and developed substantial
    incomes.
    
>    I will say this... Amway recommends that in your search for
>   potential "clients" that you get out your high school and college
>   yearbooks and call everyone. This is how you grow your business.
    
    I have some friends who were going nowhere in life....dead-end jobs
    etc. until one of their ex-high school friends who they hadn't heard
    from for years called them to share the Amway business oppertunity.
    Today they are making in excess of $300,000 per annum. I don't think
    that they are too upset with their friend for calling them. 
    
>   The ONLY way to grow your business is to get other people "under
>    you." If you're the type of person that feels that using your
>    high school and college yearbooks as a "mailing list" is a moral
>    and ethical thing to do, then Amway's for you. It most certainly
>    is _not_ for me.

    The ONLY way to grow your business is to help others become successful.
    Having people under you does NOT grow your business. This is a FACT.
    
    Gerry
    
    -b

>    Perhaps more appropriately, does Gerry have any friends left who, 
>    when they see him coming, don't say "Oh no, here comes Gerry with
>    that effin' Amway stuff again (groan)..."
 
    You bet I have, I do not make a habit of shoving something down
    someones throat who has no interest. Also I have made many, many really
    good friends since I joined the business.   
    
    
>    Rob, who doesn't want to have to look at all his friends
>    as marketing opportunities
 
    THen don't. Share it with strangers. But I bet when you are doing
    really well in your business your friends will wonder why you didn't
    want to help them.
    
    Gerry   

    
       Personally, I forcefully refuse all communications intiated by
     sales people, and never buy anything unless I asked first.  And at
     a very early age, I rejected sales and marketing (S&M ?) of all
     kinds as a career.  So there is no chance that I'd ever have dealings
     with Amway, if it is sales.
    
       That said, why would Amway be more objectionable than other sales ?
    
       bb

The evidence is there. For those people who stick it out, work hard, and
ignore the nay-sayers, there is significant reward.

The truth of the matter is that most folks are uncomfortable with approaching
other people in this manner. Most folks either know this up front or quickly
learn it and drop out.

Those that don't shouldn't be looked down upon for their success.

Amways approach is a little deceiving as well which again makes people
uncomfortable.

Amway is nothing more than a purchasing channel that you can obtain
benefits from your own and others purchases. You don't get that benifit
from WalMart, or Sears, or the local grocers (unless you own stock :-)

Doug.

Ohmigawd - now we've worked a guilt trip into the picture, as well.

Gerry - free clue: If you want to impress a few more suckers into your fold,
   learn to spell opportunity correctly. You might just wander across one
   who finds it comical that you can't spell what you sell.

> Ohmigawd - now we've worked a guilt trip into the picture, as well.

    Explain!
    
>  Gerry - free clue: If you want to impress a few more suckers into your fold,
>   learn to spell opportunity correctly. You might just wander across one
>   who finds it comical that you can't spell what you sell.

   Thanks!
    
    Gerry

>    Explain!

.40>					But I bet when you are doing
.40>    really well in your business your friends will wonder why you didn't
.40>    want to help them.

>    I believe you.  My hangup right now is that my children need me home
>    and they won't be young forever.  I know I could stretch it out but I'm
>    the type that would want to succeed in a short amount of time.  I have
>    friends who are alays traveling, out until midnight once a week, etc.
>    The kids are home with the sitter and quite frankly, I think the
>    parents and children are missing out on something important. 
  
    Jack,
    
    This is certainly a valid reason for not wanting to get involved in a
    spare-time business. I have absolutely no problem with anyone not being
    involved for personal reasons. 
    
    My kids are actually the reason that I am involved in this business.
    They are fast approaching college age, and I refuse to let them start
    off in life in debt  before they even get a job (i.e student loans). I
    will do whatever I can, and this business is definitely a great option,
    to ensure that I can pay their way through college. I can not afford it
    based on my salary here in Digital. Kids learn a lot when they see their 
    parents working hard to make ends meet, and as my kids are usually in 
    bed by 9:00 or 9:30pm I don't have any problem being out in the evening 
    to build my business. Having said this, I respect anyone who doesn't see 
    it my way.
    
    What I don't like is the stereotyping of the 'Amway Distributor' as
    someone who wants to make something off of others, and is only out for
    themselves. Nothing could be further from the truth. I have spent a
    lot of time and money in this business helping others, albeit I may also
    benifit 'if' they become successful. I see nothing wrong with this. Too
    many un-informed people have 'opinions' about this and other networking
    businesses, while knowing little or nothing about them. They usually
    base their opinion on one or two people that they knew who were
    involved at some point. This is a very narrow viewpoint and they should
    refrain from giving others 'advise' unless they absolutely know the
    'facts' on what they are talking about. All they are doing is taking
    the opportunity away from others who may have been otherwise
    successful. 
    
    Some of the notes in reply to my initial note definitely left a lot to
    be desired with respect to intelligent debate on this subject. I can
    only put that down to ignorance on the topic. Hopefully we can educate
    them somewhat, but I doubt it. 
    
	Gerry      

    
    
    
    THe reputation that Amway has is a reputation that has been earned.  It
    may not be true any longer, but at one time it was.  Why is it that
    when one gets approached by someone with regards to this, the Amway
    name is seldom used?  
    
    Mike

> I can only put that down to ignorance on the topic.


Perhaps rather than ignorance it's first hand knowledge.

    THe reputation that Amway has is a reputation that has been earned.  It
    may not be true any longer, but at one time it was.  Why is it that
    when one gets approached by someone with regards to this, the Amway
    name is seldom used?  
    
    Mike,
    
    I agree that the reputation for one reason or another is not great with
    the uninformed. However if you take the time to look into this, as I
    did, you will find that it is mostly opinions of people who had an
    Amway Distributor get too pushy with them. They then base their opinion
    of this multinational company solely on this person or people.
    
    The name is seldom used because of peoples lack of knowledge and
    preconceived ideas as to what this is all about. We give people the
    chance to see the opportunity first so that they have no preconceived
    ideas i.e. door to door sales, pyramids etc. before they make their
    mind up. This method of contacting people works very well, and there
    are thousands of people earning large incomes today who would not be if
    they were approached in any other way.
    
    Most people have no idea what this business is all about, as is obvious
    from a lot of the replies in here.
    
    Gerry 	    
    

    
    Gerry,
    
    First of all, I was an Amway distributor myself. That was, until
    I went to a regional meeting, where I was absolutely sickened
    by what I saw. There was a couple from North Carolina who were
    everything, absolutely everything, that is contemptable about
    Amway, rolled into a huge ball and hired as guest speakers.
    Dripping with money, bragging, sleezy. But it wasn't them that
    made me sick... it was the swooning expressions on the faces
    of everyone else in the room. I cannot begin to describe how
    truly disgusting the whole scene was to me.
    
    You seem like a nice guy, and you're trying to be reasonable,
    and your "putting my kids through college" is a nice line and
    all, but like all of Amway, you're only telling the nice
    side of the story. For one thing, you're trying to make it
    sound like you own your own "business." Let's see, would that
    be Gerry Inc.? Gerry DBA maybe? What's that you say, you're
    not allowed to actually have a true tax status business as
    an Amway rep? Some business that, Gerry.
    
    LoC is good stuff, but Shackley BasicH blows it away. And
    the rest of the stuff is just consumer garbage that you
    could just as easily buy at Walmart, if one was so inclined,
    and I don't have to go to meetings and act like a Jehovah's
    Witness to do it...
    
    -b

At least if you ask a Tupperware distributor (not a dealer or a manager)
what their goal is, they'll generally be honest and tell you that "It's
to sell as much of this damn plastic as I possibly can so that I can
increase my net worth."

    
    	So I guess that's the difference between Amway and Tupperware.
    
    	Amway apparently takes the Wal-Mart approach and says "We are
    	one big happy family, and we care about our customers and emp-
    	loyees".
    
    	But the difference is that I believe Wal-Mart*.
    
    
    	* - commercial plug:  http://www.wal-mart.com
    

    Wasn't Wal-mart found to be exploiting children in 3rd-world nations to
    make their goods?  
    
    Their "Buy American" image was tainted by it, no?
    
    

>At least if you ask a Tupperware distributor (not a dealer or a manager)
>what their goal is, they'll generally be honest and tell you that "It's
>to sell as much of this damn plastic as I possibly can so that I can
>increase my net worth."

    And I will also tell you that my goal is to increase my net worth.
    Anyone who is in business and tells you different is a liar. However I
    also help others to increase theirs in the process....That's the
    difference!!!
    
    Gerry

    
    <------
    
    So how does your org. handle the saturation theory?

> However I also help others to increase theirs in the process....That's the
> difference!!!

No - actually it's no different at all. They do likewise. You think those
people holding Tupperware parties, and their managers, don't derive any
benefits?

    
    	The smiling face of a young mother, happy with her new Tupperware
    	purchase, would be benefit enough for me.
    

>    Dripping with money, bragging, sleezy. But it wasn't them that
>    made me sick... it was the swooning expressions on the faces
>    of everyone else in the room. I cannot begin to describe how
>    truly disgusting the whole scene was to me.
 
    
    Have you ever been to a rock concert or a football game and seen people
    'swooning' over their heros? The only difference here is that these
    folk are excited about their future. I, for one, think that's great.
       
>    side of the story. For one thing, you're trying to make it
>    sound like you own your own "business." Let's see, would that
>    be Gerry Inc.? Gerry DBA maybe? What's that you say, you're
>    not allowed to actually have a true tax status business as
>    an Amway rep? Some business that, Gerry.
 
    I do own my own business. I can call it whatever I please. I distribute
    goods and services for a wide range of companies of which Amway is just
    one. I claimed as a legitimate business last year and received a
    sizable tax refund.
       
>    LoC is good stuff, but Shackley BasicH blows it away. And
>    the rest of the stuff is just consumer garbage that you
>    could just as easily buy at Walmart, if one was so inclined,
>    and I don't have to go to meetings and act like a Jehovah's
>    Witness to do it...
 
    That's just your opinion on the products. Many others would disagree.
    However nobody claims that everything they sell is the best value and
    you miss the point if you think that it is just another store. I make
    money on the products that I buy or sell. That does not happen in
    Wal-Mart
    
    Gerry

    
    
    Sean, yer such a people person, a humanitarian.....

    
    	If Wal-Mart didn't make money on what they sold, they wouldn't
    	be around for long.
    
    	Or am I mis-reading something?
    

    	The competitor's name is Shaklee.  And they hate it when you
    	pronounce it SHAKE-lee.  It's pronounced SHACK-lee, because
    	Shaquille O'Neil is a major stockholder in the company.  He
    	grew so big because he took their vitamins...

    
    re: .55
    
    Any answer for me re: .56???
    

    	Andy --
    
    	There is no need to handle the theory because it will not occur 
    	in reality.  I'll bet that not even 10% of the population currently
    	uses Amway.  When it gets into the 90's then you can start getting
    	concerned again!  :^)
    
    ------------------------------
    
    	You know, this topic really has me feeling uncomfortable.  Here we
    	have a conference participant expressing his experience with Amway.
    	He's apparently doing OK with it.  He's been candid and it seems
    	to me that his head is in the right place with his business.  But
    	so many people want to trash him and make him answer for all the
    	broad-brush generalities and even the misconceptions about the
    	company.  Granted, he opened himself up for it to some degree by
    	participating in the discussion, but it seems to me that some of
    	the responses have gone beyond discussion to being nasty.
    
    	I can feel for him.  I used to do some multi-level-marketing (not
    	Amway) and was not very successful because I couldn't handle the 
    	frequent rejection that is inherent in this type of business.  But 
    	given that Gerry seems successful in his own business, I'll assume 
    	that he is better able to handle it, so therefore may be well 
    	equipped to deal with the concerted rejection and even hostility 
    	being displayed here.

    
    .65

    	>...[I] was not very successful because I couldn't handle the 
        >frequent rejection...
    
    ...and yet, you've taken to Soapbox...
    
    ;^)
    

    	Funny how that works, eh Cruel and Unusual?  :^)
    
    	Perhaps the difference is that I make no pretense to myself that
    	I'm going to convince anyone to change here, thus it is not really
    	rejection.  And on top of that, my livelihood does not depend on 
    	getting you to agree with me.  :^)

>    So how does your org. handle the saturation theory?
    
    	It doesn't make any sense talking about saturation, as it will
    never occur.If it does, I hope it occurs under me :-)
    
    There are approx 2 million distributors world wide in Amway. If you put
    all of them in New York City you would still have about 9 Million more
    prospects in that city alone. So I don't think we need to worry about
    that possibility.
    
    Gerry

    
    Who is your "so many people who want to trash him" Joe?
    
    I want no such thing. All I'm trying to do is to make it
    clear that there's another side to Amway. Yes, I'm an
    outspoken critic of the company. Not of Gerry, of Amway.
    I will continue to speak out against the company. I
    do it because I feel they screw people. I do it because
    I feel they screwed me.
    
    You're getting mightly close to a trip to the pot and
    kettle note for getting on me for being critical and
    outspoken.
    
    -b

    re .69
    
    How do you feel that they screwed you? I'd be interested to find out.
    
    Joe,
    
    I have always noticed that when someone is being successful or striving
    to be successful at something there are always those who try to pull them 
    down. To be honest with you, it really doesn't bother me as I KNOW where I 
    am going with this business, and have seen all the success stories from 
    people from every walk of life and every age group. My upline Profit Sharing
    Direct Distributors -making in excess of $50k per annum- are 75 & 76
    years old, and she is in a wheelchair - where else would a couple like this
    get the opportunity and encouragement to fulfill their dreams and earn
    that kind of money. Some people would rather see them live off the
    State, but I give them great credit for not listening to the nay-sayers
    and building a big business. They are not finished yet....by the way.
    
    The facts don't lie, and I can prove everything that I claim about this
    business. So these lawsuits and other diatribe about Amway don't worry
    me in the slightest.
    
    Gerry

    
    re: saturation...
    
    I was just curious.... thanks for the answer...
    

       <<< Note 283.69 by MPGS::MARKEY "Manly yes, but I like it too" >>>

    
>    Who is your "so many people who want to trash him" Joe?
>    
>    I want no such thing. 
    
    	Great!  Then I wasn't referring to you.
    
    	Next question?