Conference back40::soapbox

    
    I'm sick and tired of people who block the doors on the subway cars.
    What are they, DENSE?  There's even a sign there that says "Please
    Do Not Block Doorway", yet they insist on camping there as if they
    will become trapped...TRAPPED...in the subway car if they move in.
    
    Sheesh.  Wake UP, people.
    
    (I'm convinced, actually, that people's IQs drop when they are in
     transit between two points, be it driving, cycling, walking, 
     public transit, whatever.  Their brains just stop operating.)
    

    People:
    
    If you are on 495 or 128 and you are in the left lane and somebody is
    tailing you, you are in the wrong!  Move it or lose it!!!
    
    -Jack

    Amen.
    
    -b

  People who stop and chat at the exit point of an escalator and make the
people getting off stumble around them.

  George

    I'm tired of people obviously behaving like livestock every time
    they're in a washroom. It's almost as if they decide "Aha! I'm going
    into a public restroom. Now's my chance to spill everything, whizz
    everywhere, crap everywhere,drop everything and generally leave a 
    disgusting mess." Bovine behaviour I say, and I'm sick and tired of it!

    Glenn

    S&Tof
    
    Those new to Colorado, within the last two years or so, not knowing how to
    use turning signals.
    
    ...Tom

    
    .5:
    
    You said it.  Why do supposedly educated and mature computer
    professionals pee on the toilet seat?  What do they have against
    flushing?  Why MUST they drop paper towels on the floor?
    

 of people who can't carry on a conversation without throwing in the "f" word
 here, the "S" word there, etc...



Jim

>>    - Right wing fundies -- they all deserve a bullet through their
>>    pointed heads.
    
    Buckley...go back to your beer!!

>          <<< Note 60.2 by AIMHI::JMARTIN "Barney IS NOT a nerd!!" >>>
>
>    People:
>    
>    If you are on 495 or 128 and you are in the left lane and somebody is
>    tailing you, you are in the wrong!  Move it or lose it!!!
    
    True, if there is room in the next lane. Someone going 65 and passing a
    line of cars is under no obligation to try to move over for someone
    going 70 until the lane is clear.  
    
    Even when they don't move, two wrongs don't make a right. Tailgating is
    *never* legitimate, particularly at high speed. If there's room in the
    adjoining lane, just go around. If there's not, hang on till you've all
    got past.
    
    The other no-no related to the tailgate/turn-signal-be-damned crowd is
    cutting in and out of legitimate safety zone of surrounding traffic.
    That space belongs to the cars that flank it. The fact that a two-car
    space exists that you can slip into does not give you the right to use
    it. (Of course, a two-car space is not an adequate safety zone in high
    speed traffic in any case)
    Kit

People who pull to the right, when they wanna take a left hand 
turn...

Nearly gives me gas; it does....

            <<< Note 60.9 by POWDML::BUCKLEY "I [heart] Roller Coasters!"
    >>>- "Wiggers" -- can't these kids today try and look more like their
          own race??  Guess not..
    
    Are these kids coloring their skin black? What exactly should they 
    look like?
    
    >> urban black teenagers -
    
       You don't have any disdain for urban white teenagers?

    >>>- "Wiggers" -- can't these kids today try and look more like their
          own race??  Guess not..
    
    >Are these kids coloring their skin black? 
    
    They might as well -- it would complete the picture.
    
    
    >> urban black teenagers -
    
    >   You don't have any disdain for urban white teenagers?
    
    Yes, see above!

    Well, Buck. Guess what. You get to add "racist" your list of charming
    qualities... :-)
    
    Essentially, it's OK for whites to wear fashion trends started by
    whites, but if they wear clothing from fashion trends started by
    blacks they are "wiggers". Not to mention the fact that the term
    "wiggers" is intentionally racist itself. But I don't expect you
    to see that... I  just expect you to tell me to bugger off. So, go
    ahead, tell me.. :-)
    
    -b

    
    I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired....... I think, which is
    rare for me, I try not to.
    
    Mark

    wearing fashion trends started by blacks isn't all of it.  several of
    the wiggers i've seen were wearing high-top fades that stuck out rather
    ludicrously from their backward baseball caps, throwing jive around as
    if it were their native language, dancing to hip-hop, trying to get
    tight with the local black youth, and actively badmouthing all things
    white as lame.

    
    Ummm...I'm just sick and tired of teenagers in general. They all
    look goofy to me, probably much like we did to our elders!  :*)
    

    I'll say it again: wiggers is racist.
    
    Parse it out. White... what? Huh? Call 'em whacks if you feel the need
    to call them something then, but wiggers is as an offensive term, as
    would be it's converse: "bonkeys."
    
    -b

    the term wigger derives from the whiteboys' desire to pass themselves
    off as homeys, who can - and do - call each other niggers.  the
    ultimate aim of a wigger is to be so well accepted by blacks that he
    too can call them niggers without getting shot for it.

    >Well, Buck. Guess what. You get to add "racist" your list of charming
    >qualities... :-)
    
    Add it?  Thought it was always there?!?  ;')
    
    Guess that means you won't be interested in joining my hot new oi band?
    Too bad, we really kick some butt...
                  

    Is wearing yer drawers down around yer knees so yer boxers show considered 
    wiggerness, or just stupid?
    
    Get down. {bonk chicka bonk bonk} 

       
   > - Right wing fundies -- they all deserve a bullet through their pointed 
   >   heads.



 I wonder how long a "right wing fundie" would last around these parts if
 they were to electronically suggest putting a bullet through some other 
 group's heads?



Jim    
    
    

    These bullets aren't real. It's just the Malcotians at it again.

    melkotians.

    Thanks, my alien spelling ain't so good.

    
    
    Are you Sick and Tired of AT&T commerials that take credit for things
    they haven't done yet? 
    
    

    	I'm sick and tired of NASDAQ commercials.
    
    	If I'm interested buy stock, I'm not going to limit myself to
    	any particular stock exchange.  And if I am interested in a
    	particular company, I don't care what exchange it's listed on.

    I'm really sick and tired of these silly looking lowered trucks (and cars,
    now-a-daze) with tires sticking out 3' from the wheel well.  I can't
    believe people pay good money to assassinate a perfectly good vehicle
    like that (and of course, funcationality is ruined, as is the ride).
    
    And the boom-sizzle sound systems have to go, too.  I have nothing
    agianst loud, but if they got all this money to alter their vehicles to
    look silly, the least they could do is put in a higher quality sound
    system.
    
    There...I feel much better now.

    Same deal with the plastic commercials, milk commercials and cheese
    commercials.
    
    "Buy plastic y'all - sponsored by the Plastic institute.".
    
    {Picture madmike screeming as he's fixin to pitch his plastic teevee out 
    the front door}

	I'm sick and tired of all this violence and abuse crap
on the news. It has become soooo depressing, I don't want to
watch anymore. Now I don't know what goes on in the world or
if it is going to rain or shine.................%^(

    
    because we like to cruise, man.
    
    its so cool to hop the front end off the ground, man.
    
    tinted windows, astros, tiny VW wheels, fuzzy dice..

	RE .32		SNARFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF


	There, I feel much better now. Thought I could go all
day without one, just couldn't make it.

    Well, I'm not really *sick and tired* about this, more annoyed. I'm
    annoyed about Minivans, and other "passenger" vehicles that you can't
    bloody see through, over or around. More often than not, I'm stuck
    behind a Minivan with one person in it, and can't see the traffic
    ahead. So, why do people need such high vehicles for passenger use
    only, and why can't they stay the hell out of the left lane with them
    if they really feel they'll die without it?
    
    -b (who does own a pickup truck too, as well as a car, but uses it to
    haul "stuff", and stays outta people's way)

    
    
    Well, I like driving up high so I can see what all the cretins in the
    small cars are doing.  ;')

    
    .34 
    
    Brian I'm with you, can't see anything in front of you with one of
    them, not to mention they love to constantly test their brakes to make
    sure they still work.
    
    Mark

    Don't be such a tart.  Here I come in a Suburban hauling hehind me
    about 6000 pounds of steel.  GET THE HELL OUTTA MY WAY!

    Yeah, but you're not the type I'm complaining about...
    
    -b

    I'm sick and tired of all those inconsiderate drivers who come up
    and sit on your bumper on the interstate with their HIGH BEAMS on.
    I've noticed time and again drivers on the opposite side of the
    road flashing their high beams to alert the clueless with no change.
    Must assume they know they have HB on and don't care.
    
    Now if only I were driving one of James Bond's cars and blow these
    louts off my tail!!
    
    

    Well, ok then.  Just keep the hell out of the left lane while your
    worrying about those ijits in the minivans you can't see over.  :^)

    Believe me son... you'd be hard pressed to be going faster than I
    usually go... you don't have to worry about me getting in your
    way. I've got a revolving charge account at the Registry of
    Motor Vehicles... :-) :-) :-)
    
    -b

    You pay tickets?

    I fight 'em. Beat six in the last three years. Have another (my 7th)
    pending in Spencer Mass district court on May 9, for a ticket I got at
    2 AM in a little backwater... dink cop was sitting on private property
    with his lights off though. So this ticket's toast too...
    
    -b

    I'm sick and tire of dragon breath, Buttheads who come back from a
    smoke break still expelling thier carcinogenic fumes and first person
    they want to converse with is you.  When you politely ask "did you just
    a smoke a cigarette", they still miss the clue.  That's when I politely 
    end the conversation.  
    

>    2 AM in a little backwater... dink cop was sitting on private property
>    with his lights off though. So this ticket's toast too...

How so?

    Both things are against SOP for police here in the PRM. You show that
    the cop violated SOP in these areas, and you can easily conclude that
    he violated SOP operating the radar.
    
    -b

Thanks.

See, it's ignorance of these subtle nuances that results in a lot of folks
paying tickets they don't have to. Someone should compile them all in a book.

    Re: .34
    
    >So, why do people need such high vehicles for passenger use only,
    
    A friend of mine is 6'8" and needs minivans for the headroom.

    My best buddy from high school has three kids, two cats, a husband and
    a dog.  Just because she doesn't have them with her at a certain time
    doesn't mean she doesn't drive her Aerostar!  It's the only vehicle she
    has...
    
    M.
    

    Fine... tell her to stay to the right... :-) :-)
    
    -b

    Markey, 
    
    Are you a speedster?

    Vrooooooooooooooooom....
    
    -b

    All this talk of SUBURBans troubles me.
    

...of idiots with fog lights on at night, with no fog!

    <- RE; fog lights... very '70s

I'm sick and tired of all these "little" cars on the highway
always getting in the way of my BIG van......wish they would stay
to the right in the toy car lane.......%^) %^)

    I drive a 1977 Chevy Blazer and there aint many of you that can make 
    me move out of that left lane if I don't want to. You can try though. 
    
    
    Its taller than a caravan too. 
    
    
    

    How about all those drivers of both large and small cars who sit at
    junctions just waiting for the 65mph motorcyclist to get within 200
    feet before they pull out to turn right?
    
    I mean, I don't particularly mind if you help me to total your brand
    new set of Wonderwheels, but is your insurance going to pay me to have
    my leg in the air for a month?

    I'm sick and tired of parents letting their kids play "bank machine"
    when there's a line up.

    		"Press that button, no, not that one. Aw see? 
    		 Now we have to start over, now, press this 
    		 button, now that one, OK? Now, NO, now, OK,
    		 now you press this one, see?"

    AAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

    Glenn

    Well, at least the kids seem to be able to operate the machines, which
    is more than can be said for some of the parents...
    
    -b

    Well, yes, I've watched people struggle, but they're trying and you
    gotta learn somehow. I think letting your kid play around when there's
    a line up is incredibly thoughtless.

    Glenn

 At one time people would view such a thing and smile and say "How cute" and
 patiently wait.  Now people are in too much of a hurry for such stuff.




Jim

    In those days, there weren't any ATM's, in fact, did banking even exist
    in those days?

"My mother always said she was 'sick and tired'. "I'm sick and tired of
you nyah nyah nyah". "Tired" always followed "Sick". 

One time she started out saying "I'm sick..." and I finished up saying
"and tired"...

I don't remember much after that..."

[ with acknowledgement to Bill Cosby ]

RE:     <<< Note 60.63 by POLAR::RICHARDSON "The Quintessential Gruntling" >>>

   > In those days, there weren't any ATM's, in fact, did banking even exist
   > in those days?


    Guess you're right..they didn't even teach history in school back then..




Jim

    I'm pretty sick and tired of miscreant crossbars.

Is that a cursor your referring to Doc? Or a scope? 8-)

    It's a logic module, which I didn't design but which I get to debug
    anyway...

    .68
    
    been there.  done that.  sux.

 I'm sick and tired of people who when seeing my name on the top of
a check will say "Hey, are you related to that Muppet guy?" or "bet
you get a lot of questions about your name, huh?"  when my name is
"Jim Henderson" not "Jim Henson"...sheeesh.




Jim

    no der ....
    
    
    
    Rick

re:          <<< Note 60.70 by CSLALL::HENDERSON "Dig a little deeper" >>>

They don't realize you used to be the band leader on the Tonight show
before Doc Severenson?

>They don't realize you used to be the band leader on the Tonight show
>before Doc Severenson?



I don't have the beard anymore, so they probably don't recognize me.




Jim

    re: The muppet guy
    
    Start using CA$H.

    Now i`m not sexyst,but it sure is annoying the way women insist on
    getting all the pennies out of their purse to give the exact change
    to pay for anything. 
    
    Unlike blokes,who sensibily hand over a note to pay for something then
    get out of the queue prompto. Or at least have the correct money all
    ready to hand over.
    

	DUCK...................In coming................

    
    We're just doing our patriotic duty and getting pennies back into
    circulation.                                   

	.75  i hate that too.  really annoying.  at least have it all
	     ready if you want to unload a bunch of change.

	I hate pennies, they should stop making them and make
prices that don't need them.

	Tobin prices tick me off too, stop this 71c or 48c. Make
it 70c and 50c.

    And I am sick and tired of having to wait while cashiers break open
    change rolls when I don't have change because people refuse to count it
    out when they do have it.

    Every time it rains it rains... PENNIES from heavennnnnnnn...

    	re .80
    
    	That would never happen if you used a check or plastic.

    
    ...		of people who accelerate on the entrance
    		ramp to the highway then stop dead at the
    		end to check the traffic before pullin' out
    		(makes me cuss sumthin' AWFUL!)
    
    ...		of people (YOOOshally ladies) who stop ta
    		gab in the middle of the supermarket aisles
    		"Oh my goodness! How are Yooooo? I haven't
    		seen you in ages ..."
    
    ...		of movin' my office from one location in the
    		Mill to another (move #5 in 15 months happens
    		next week
    
    			but I still have a job so ...
    
    

 Not really sick and tired, but it is a minor irritant...people who refer
 to the game cartridges for SEGA and Nintendo as "tapes".




Jim

    It's a classic case of Pennies Envy.
    
    No, really!!
    
    |-{:-)
    

        Miserable.   So  why not cough up a few francs and help the old
        dear out?   Moves  the  line  and  does  some  good at the same
        time...
        

       <<< Note 60.87 by SPEZKO::FRASER "Mobius Loop; see other side" >>>

>>      Miserable.   So  why not cough up a few francs and help the old
>>      dear out?   Moves  the  line  and  does  some  good at the same
>>      time...
  

Beat me to it....
      

    because the old dear was a proud old dear and refused, that's why thank
    you very much. 

You could've suggested she bag your groceries in return...

[Not so farfetched for some here, I'll wager]

    <.2>please yourself. there are, believe it or not, some people who do not
    accept money from strangers. i can't help that. i did not, it is true,
    offer to pay because i am a kind soul, but because i was impatient. i
    equally did not write about it because generally if i do something like
    helping someone i don't need to talk about it. i was narrating story of
    how events pile up one after the other, not about an old lady.
    evidently i need to improve my story-telling. 
    
    martin

        Just yankin' yer chain, Martin - don't take it seriously! :*)
        
        Andy
        

    well the really annoying part is you're standing there in this bloody
    queue, whereas the idea of a supermarket is to get in and out ASAP,
     it's too true to be funny, i _always_ get in the wrong cue, and you're 
    torn between laughter and annoyance, 'cos _you're_ gonna be in that
    situation one day.........

    
    Well...there is an annoyance that is uniquely Canadian.  A chain of
    hardware/houseware stores called `Canadian Tire' has their own currency,
    the most common denomination of which is 5 and 10 cent bills.  People
    hoard this stuff for months until they finally dig 'em out to buy a
    new toaster or something.  Then some unlucky slob gets stuck in line
    behind this person counting out $15 worth of 5 cent bills.  And, of
    course, the bills have to be counted twice...once by the customer, and
    once by the cashier.
    
    And with Christmas rolling in...{shudder}...
    
    jc
    

    Eh....? :-)

    Was it in "Terms of Endearment" that we saw that marvelous scene at the
    grocery-store checkout counter...?
    
    Deborah Winger, playing a young mother struggling to make ends meet,
    came up short at the checkout line.  She started taking items off, and
    her oldest son proposed taking off a box of Midol.  "No way!" she
    snapped. She picked out for return a candy bar intended for her
    youngest, who started to cry; she put it back, which prompted the
    snippy cashier to say, "Hey, lady, you're going the wrong way!"
    
    John Lithgow, playing the kindly local banker who was sweet on Winger,
    came up behind her and offered to pay the difference.  In return, he
    leaned over to the cashier and said, "Young lady, I play golf with the
    store manager, and I know he'd be very unhappy if he knew how rudely
    you've treated this woman."
    
    The cashier angrily popped her gum.  "I don't think I was rude!" she
    said.
    
    "In that case," Lithgow replied, "you must be from New York."

I've accepted as a universal axiom the coincidence of my eventual turn
for cashier service and their need precisely at that moment to turnover 
their proceeds/convert large denominations or  perform some other
accounting activity.

Or maybe they think I'm going to rip them off.

I'm sick an tired of snarfs

    
    <-- Oh, you are not 8^).
    
    
    I'm S&T of the backup cashier in the caf ALWAYS finding she needs to do
    something else in a totally different part of the building when I approach 
    her with coffee and no change.
    
    What is it about me that scares her away?
    

    Your three handbags full of pennies?

 Re .101



 I seem to have a similar problem when venturing to the cafe late in the
 afternoon..nobody else in there and the cashier goes "in the back" to do
 who knows what..




Jim

    
    They must be siblings.

    Not only that, they must have the same mother.

	i hear ya, jimmy.  same thing happens to me all the time.
	i swear she does it on purpose.  ;>  

    
    .106
    
    Thank you, Gilligan 8^).

    Or if you're a Marine... Simper Fideles?
    
    -b

>	i hear ya, jimmy.  same thing happens to me all the time.
>	i swear she does it on purpose.  ;>  



 I think so too...we'll find out. I'm about to head down there for some
 frozen yoghurt.




Jim

 Mission accomplished.  Got the yoghurt.  Cashier was there and taking
 money.




Jim

    |Cashier was there and taking money.
    
    I'm sick & tired of this.

    I'm sick and tired of the overuse of the verb "to get."  People seem to
    use it for everything.  In the last decade or so, the clarity and
    crispness of verbal and written communication has diminished
    significantly.  It seems most other perfectly good verbs have fallen
    to such a level of disuse that people are not longer capable of 
    using anything else.  It's much like developing software and naming
    every module/routine/program with "handle_xxxx" or "xxxxx_handler."
    We shouldn't do it because it is vague and imprecise and lazy.  The same
    goes for the abuse of the verb "to get."

    It particularly saddens me that journalists have fallen into this trap. 
    People who make their living from words ought to have a better command
    of the language, and set an example for the rest of us.


    "I gotta get to the store."         vs.  "I need to go to the store."
    "Get me some milk."                 vs.  "Buy me some milk."
    "I got sick."                       vs.  "I was sick."
    "I'm getting a headache."           vs.  "I'm developing a headache."
    "I'm getting a glass of milk."	vs.  "I'm pouring myself a glass of milk."
    "Get into the house."		vs.  "Come into the house."
    "Get it for me."			vs.  "Bring it to me."
    "Get it to them."			vs.  "Take it to them."
    "Get this to the Post Office."      vs.  "Post this letter for me." or
    "Make sure the get it by 6:00 p.m." vs.  "Ensure they receive it by 6:00"
    "I just got back from Florida."     vs.  "I just returned from Florida."

	....I'm sure you *GET* the idea.


    I remember a few years back PBS first aired the Civil War series 
    in which they read letters written by ordinary soldiers.
    Everybody seemed to make such a fuss over the eloquence of these
    letters.  Well the simple fact is that back then people actually
    had command of the English language.  Compared to the poor examples
    in the media and everyday conversation that bombard us today--these
    letters are incredibly eloquent.  However, back then that WAS everyday
    conversation.  Just compare music lyrics of today with those written
    in the 1960s.  Or listen to old interviews of the "radical, deadbeat,
    hippies" of the early sixties.  More often than not you'll actually
    here good grammar, maybe even some insightful analogies to classic
    literature or history.  Today it's "gotta get going" and maybe a few
    "mutha f******" sprinkled in for emphasis.


    

    re .0
    
    
    .....Get otta the City!....never much noticed this but you're right!
    
    
    Rod(just surfin' this ev'nin)

    	I got some good advice from an english teacher that I had in
    	high school --
    
    	Closely examine every occurrence of GET and THAT in your writing.
    	Most times the sentence can be rewritten so that you can get them 
    	out of there.
    
    	I didn't get it at first, but once he pointed out places that I
    	could remove some of them, my writing got better.

    Speaking of the eloquency of yesteryear, "no pain, no gain" is a
    misquoting of Ben Franklin.

    re: .2
    
    Ho ho.  Very good.

    I gotta get me a bettah unnerstannin of the english language!

    
    RE: .0
    
    "Sick and Tired" is note 60
    
    
    Hope this helps you get there...
    

    Tip of the iceberg. If you have never read Edwin Newman's books,
    suggest you do so soon and am sure you will have a lot of laughs.
    One was entitled "Strictly Speaking" and the other was "In a Civil
    Tongue". Get them at your bookstore. If they haven't got them I'm sure
    you can get them at the library. So, get there and see if they've got
    it. Got it? Good. Now get going.

.0>				More often than not you'll actually
.0>    here good grammar

And better spelling, as well.

    language changes.  get used to it.
    
    DougO

    Overheard in a bar:
    
    	"Hi, honey, wanna get laid?"
    
    Overheard at a boxbash:
    
    	"Excuse, me.  Would you prefer consensual intimacy to these
    	 juvenile proceedings?"

    .10
    
    Sounds like Binderspeak to me! :-)
    
    

    You and Binder?! Well, I never would thunk it!
    
    ;-)

    
    bad service is becoming the norm im america.  it seems that only
    businesses that are under-staffed can compete.  the fascinating part
    is that the whole country is sort of "thrashing" throughout the day
    as everyone wastes everyone else's time because they don't have enough
    employees to do the job.  one wonders if increased efficiency resulting
    from adequate staffing of all businesses would offset the extra payroll
    cost for each business.  oh well, whether it would, or not, its truly
    something to be sick and tired of.
    
    bill

    ok, so i'm a little slow....back to the pennies thing...
    
    few years ago, out grocery shopping with mumsy.  lady in
    line in front of us paid for something like 150.00 in
    singles!  She shuffles away after the long wait counting,
    the cashier is obviously agitated/exasperated, mumsy says
    to her, "don't worry, I won't pay you in singles...I have
    all pennies!".  well, at least mumsy and i found it amusing :)

    Oho, now we see where you get it from...

    <- add a "T"

    grep, cat, biff!!:)

	note 132.* moved here with permission of basenote author.

    .134
    
    > note 132.* moved here
    
    er, um, then why is it still there, blank, saying it has 16 replies but
    when you press kp3 it says no more replies?

    To provide us with something else to be sick and tired of.

    
>>    er, um, then why is it still there, blank, saying it has 16 replies but
>>    when you press kp3 it says no more replies?

	er, um, i don't know.  i deleted the note right after i moved it,
	it said it deleted it, but it's still there.  maybe some Notes
	expert can clue me in.

	ps Glenn, i apologize for the fact that it's still there.

    I'm very confused about all of this, and it troubles me.

	well, i don't know what the deal is, but i replied to it, then
	deleted the reply, then deleted the basenote, and now it's _really_
	gone.

	humble apologies for the consternation, glenn dear.

    So, what's all this then about the author's permission?
    
    I'm still troubled, but I think that's my fault and not yours di. ;-)

>>    So, what's all this then about the author's permission?

	i sent mail to Dave, asking if he had really intended to start
	a new note, or if it belonged here.  

	hope this helps.

    Well, you must be getting sick and tired of my silly questions.
    
    Glenn

    Beer commercials.  I am especially s&t of the Coors Extra Gold "beer
    guy" commercials.  I have visions of some fat slob sitting around in
    his dinner shirt swilling Coors Extra Gold, the beeah guy beeah.  I find
    these insulting to those of us that enjoy a decent brew, domestic or
    otherwise.   
    
    I am also s&t of the whiney, pretentions of the Sam Adams commercials. 
    Pish beer at best with annoying commercials to boot. 
    
    Brian

    > Pish beer
    
    are you having difficulty with slurred speech, brian?

    Naw, just using a fave term from one o'me scots mates.  
    
     

    well, i just wondered.  if you were having speech difficulty due to
    overconsumption, then we'd understand about pishing beer.

    my overconsumptive behavior occurs only after "normal" working hours. 
    besides, I have a peech inspediment that makes that happen from time
    to time.

    How can anyone get slurred speech from drinking American beer?

    I would explode first.

    .149
    
    not all 'murican beer falls under the classification of water than
    holds a head.  sam adams made a limited brew of triple bock - i bleeve
    the c2h5oh content is in the neighborhood of 17%.  nice blue glass
    bottles, 8 floz in size, 24kt gold lettering.

    What I don't understand is why most of it does.

    >>sam adams made a limited brew of triple bock - i bleeve

	pretty tasty, but they blew it blathering on about how it
	should be sipped slowly, like a good port, etc.  oh pleeeze.

    >I would explode first.
    
    
    My nipples explode with delight.

    .152
    
    well, lady di, i can't honestly say as how i've ever seen one of their
    commercials, so i take the beer at face value.

    
>>    well, lady di, i can't honestly say as how i've ever seen one of their
>>    commercials, so i take the beer at face value.

	nor have i.  it's all written down on that pretentious little
	card they attach to the beer.

	RE .153			Oh me gosh...........

	Mz Debra, you are making it sooooooooooooo hard for me to 
behave. If I try any harder I am going to hurt myself.........%^(

    Sam Adams commercials are heard rather than seen.  I cannot change the
    station fast enough when one of them comes on.  

    .155
    
    well, fancy that.  guess my prob is i've never seen that little card. 
    beer was provided by a friend.  he's got two bottles left, and i'm
    signed up.

    
    
    debra marie!!!!!!!
    
    
    

Not Mz_Deb's fault....  she's obviously gotten one
of those faulty English-Hungarian phrase books.

I will not buy this record; it is scratched.

j.

    Pleeeese phhhhuuundal myeee buttocths.

OK, all together now (wait for it!)

My hovercraft.....

    is fouel of eels.

    Pull up your panties sir william or else I cannot wait until lunchtime.

    
    Vould you like to come back to my place...bouncy bouncy!
    

    eeef I said you had a beautifool boody, would you hold it against me? I
    am no longer INfected.

    i am sick and tired of hitting next unseen
    
    ric

Glen!!!!! You missed a snarf!

<---then....don't?

<-----no I didn't Chris..... :-)

	I think you need glasses Chris. And please stop calling my ex's
nickname. :-)

    
    Rollerbladers.  Every decent bike path in the city has been ruined by 
    these oblivious twits, who seem to cover ten feet left-to-right as they
    zoom along.  And that's the good ones.  The bad ones seem to be performing
    an action less like skating and more like Brownian Motion.
    
    And if you're a pedestrian, watch out for the stealth bladers that will
    scare the spit out of you as they zip past at 30 mph.
    
    We have a large cemetary here that is used as a park by cyclists,
    picnickers, romantics and the like.  The bladers loved the long
    stretches of paved road through well-tended lawns and gardens.  Notice
    I said "loved".  They just got banned from the cemetary after one of
    them knocked down a mourner attending a funeral.
    

    Stupid policy!!!  Obviously the bladers would have been good for
    biznizz, given a bit more training in takin' out pedestrioids at full
    speed.  
    
    I advise a lusty protest directed at your cemetEry's management, the
    twits.  They clearly have not the brains to recognize and react to
    opportunity.
    
    hth, nnttm for the spelling correktion.
    
    |-{:-)
    

    
    <---- Oh, yeah?   Well, sez you!!     :^)
    

    As a member of the aforementioned rollerblading species, I resemble
    your remark.
    I don't have much problem with bladers getting banned from certain
    places...they usually aren't unless they're a problem.
    It's definitely a sorta catch-22 position we're in, tho. Blading is far
    faster than running for going from A to B, but you're in much less
    control than biking. Overall, a very convienient mode of
    transportation. I just wish we could use 'em at ZKO...nice l-o-n-g
    tiled hallways. Blades haven't been banned at ZKO, but I bet it would
    take about 30 seconds from the appearance of the first blader to the
    disappearance of the last. Maybe late Saturday nights is the time to
    go.

    Zounds like Bladernet would be a significant baud-rate upgrade to
    Sneakernet.
    

    
    > We have a large cemetery here that is used as a park by ... romantics 
    > and the like.

    HELLO!  Romance in the cemetery, sounds like it borders on necrophilia!

    :-)
    Dan

    |    HELLO!  Romance in the cemetery, sounds like it borders on necrophilia!
    
    No, the cemetery is well within the Canadian border.

    Well, as long as it's not near the Polish boarder.  
    

    S&T of trucks.  There's more {bleepidy bleeping} tractor trailer rigs
    in this area than there are cars.  If they can't get the {censored}
    thing to go better than 30mph up a slight incline (on the freeway), then 
    they are carrying too much stuff!
    
    They always seem to be right in the way, slowing down the works in rush
    

    
    re: .181
    
    My lawyer will be in touch.,...
    

    
    ...of `Windows 95'.
    

You picked the wrong week to be living anywhere but the 3rd world, then, I'm
afraid.

    
    <sigh>
    

    
    of people bashing Windows95. :-)

    Truth hurts, does it, Mark?

    
    I, too, am opposed to people bashing, ESPECIALLY by Windows 95.
    

    They're got a big banner draped from the CN Tower.

    
    <groan>   Yeah, I saw that.
    

    What do it say ?
    

    Drop Trou for Microsoft Windows 95

    
    "Microsoft...Windows 95...Resistance Is Futile..."
    
    Something like that.
    

    
    goddam Microsquash for that effen windows 95 $#!+

    My alarm goes off this morning and all I hear on the radio is all this
    bull doots about windows 95....blah...blah...blah  It's ancient effen
    technology!  They put some stupid bimbet on the radio and she says...
    "It's the best thing since sliced bread...."
    <sputter> <sputter> <sputter> <gag> <choke>......

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    Any more of this horse $#!+ and I think I'm gonna has a stroke ! ! ! !

    :-(
    Dan

    >Any more of this horse $#!+ and I think I'm gonna has a stroke ! ! ! !
    
     Don't forget to take the tissues with you. /hth

    <--------
    
    bahahahaha!

	If he has a stroke, Hoover's sales will drop for a while....

    
    DAN
    
     You should be here at CX03 they have been training about 200 people to
    support windows 95 here, and this morning every one of them is wearing
    a Windows 95 t-shirt that they gave them yesterday. Put'em all together
    and they would look like a beached whale!!!
    
    Divide Dave

    J. Edgar?

    Herbert.

    oh.

    
    > ...every one of them is wearing a Windows 95 t-shirt ...
    
    I want one of those shirts.... I'm gonna take it, get some red spray
    paint, andmake one o' dem NOT signs on it!  You know the circle wit the
    line through it.  Then I'd wear it to the biggest WinLose 95 conclave I
    could find.
    
    GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR ! ! ! ! 
    
    :-|
    
       

I think all this bichin' in here about all this attention Windows 95 is 
gettin' "out there" is just sour grapes. Digital has never gotten *any* 
attention outside of IS shops and tech trade journals, and at the rate 
we're going we probably never will. Get used to it.

The great HypeMachine has gotta do something. Personally, I'd rather be 
inundated with misinformation and hype about W95 than OJ. 

Tom

    The Florida Orange Growers have a much smaller budget than Microsoft.

OK, I think we've all admired their marketing, their promotion etc.  Can they 
stop now? Please? Pretty please?


\Chele

    <-----------------------
    
    If you owned the business, would you stop? I doubt it.

    
    If it was ticking off my potential customers I would...

    The only people it seems to be ticking off are some of those in the
    BOX. If you want to complain about something related, and is really
    irritating, complain about Taco Bell commercials. That way you can at
    least be consistent.   :)

    
    What about Taco Hell?

    I'm not sure it is possible to view commercial television for more than
    10 minutes without seeing a Taco Bell commercial. If you watch for an
    hour you will undoubtably see 4-6 of the exact same commercials. Much more
    annoying IMO then the Win95 stuff.

Taco Bell -- don't they make low-quality consumer PCs?

    
    Be thankful you don't have JoJo Savard.
    

If you really want commercials to complain about

The dunkin donuts retard couple

Taco Bell with the (should-be)embalmed cow-person retreaded for this occassion

Channel 38 commercials for their fall line-up

Beyond the box

any feminine hygiene or diarhea preventative commercial

any network promo for the coming season

MCI ads

Murphy doing SPRINT ads

Any ATT ads (how about giving us the savings of not running TV commercials)

Infinity ads, any jap-car ads, in fact any car ads :-}

That STUPID, STUPID Papa Guido's Ad -- If I hear Whoopee doo one more time, 
I'll...
 

>                            -< Change the Channel >-
> That STUPID, STUPID Papa Guido's Ad -- If I hear Whoopee doo one more time, 
> I'll...

Even better, turn it off, leave it off. You get one life, you wanna spend it
watching crap like that?

    What I find extremely annoying is just loud obnoxious commercials...
    particularly on childrens stations.  It's weird because the shows are
    clean the the commercials are loud and annoying...so we don't let our
    children watch them anymore.
    
    Another thing.  My three year old comes up to me and
    says..."Daddy...Body Dance!"  I said, Excuse me???  He said "Body
    Dance" followed by sucking his thumb.  I said, Andrew, where did you
    hear this?  He said, "I heard it on Sesame Street." 
    
    Sesame Street has officially been banned in our house.  The gangster
    rap is annoying, the multiculturalism makes me want to throw up, and
    this is the straw that broke the camels back.  
    
    -Jack

    What's wrong with Body Dance?

>>    What's wrong with Body Dance?

	sounds suspiciously to me like it involves dancing and that
	you use your body to do it, which is quite revolutionary when
	it comes to dancing.  yes - it sounds dangerous.

    Sorry, I don't think it's appropriate for a three year old.  Just call
    me a prude!

    Why bother? You do it yourself. Banning Sesame Street is just a BIT
    extreme. But no one ever accused you of being a particularly deliberate
    or thoughtful thinker. You make Archie Bunker look excessively
    deliberative and pensive. I know, I know, what you lack in the thought
    process you make up for with volume...

>>       <<< Note 60.220 by MKOTS3::JMARTIN "I press on toward the goal" >>>

>>    Sorry, I don't think it's appropriate for a three year old.

  you don't think _what's_ appropriate?  what is it!?

    When he said body dance, I associated it with Dirty Dancing or Satuday
    Night Fever.  I didn't make a big deal out of it with him...I simply
    believe Sesame Street has gotten obnoxious lately with the Gangster Rap
    and the Multiculturalism...this gave me the little push I needed to get
    him dressed a half hour earlier and give him a baseball.
    
    In other words, I don't think Sesame Street is the great Satan.  I just
    haven't seen alot of redeeming value in it lately!
    
    -Jack

>>    When he said body dance, I associated it with Dirty Dancing or Satuday
>>    Night Fever.

	ngah.

    .223
    
    Associated it with dirty dancing...
    
    
    And, if you remember the movie you're referring to, the theme involved
    young people whose parents were so close-minded that they tried to
    prevent the kids from truly enjoying themselves by dancing.
    
    Not surprised that you associated it with that movie, after all.

    di,
    
    It used body and dance in the same sentence.  My goodnes!  next thing
    you know they will teach tolerance for people of difference to oneself,
    and how to read letters and numbers.
    
    meg

    It is impossible to dance without a body.
    
    Saturday Night Fever? Ooooh, how evil! And does your son associate it
    with Disco or dirty dancin'?

    Well, I'll agree that disco is evil... ;-)

    
    Oh, I love disco.
    
    

>>    <<< Note 60.226 by CSC32::M_EVANS "nothing's going to bring him back" >>>

>>    they will teach tolerance for people of difference to oneself,
>>    and how to read letters and numbers.
    
    i find this a bit too horrible to contemplate.  especially the letters
    and numbers thing.  

    .223
    
    > Gangster Rap
    
    Gangsta.
    
    NNTTM.

    <--- what a funny bunny.

    Perhaps...I guess I am trying to hold on to my three year olds
    innocense!
    
    -Jack

    innocense and peppermints? 8^)

    .233
    
    Hold on too hard, and your child will enter the real world entirely
    unable to cope with it because she never learned anything about how it
    really works.

    A futile maneuver. Incorrect strategy number 1.

    Agreed...and I usually don't act that way.  I would still rather give
    him a book or a baseball than to have to subject him to the gangsta
    rap!
    
    

    >>...lately with the Gangster Rap and the Multiculturalisn...this gave
    >>me the little push I needed to get him dressed a half hour earlier...
    
    you have a problem with your son learning about different cultures!?!?
    or do you have the problem with different cultures??  and you don't 
    even know what "body dance" is, yet you are ready to ban it from your 
    t.v.???  he is 3 years old!!  how do you even know he got the words 
    right??  sometimes jack, you really scare me...you really do...
    
    

    GHangsta rap on SS.  Methinks you should listen to some real gangsta
    rap before referring to the rap that SS has on.  
    
    meg

    This is too much.  Body dance = suggestive body motions in a
    multicultual, mixed sex environment and therfore leads to progressive
    liberalism resulting in an inappropiately open minded individual. 
    Can't have that now, no we certainly can't.  We now return you to our
    previously scheduled repression.  

    
    Perhaps he needed to urinate, and was doing the potty dance.
                                
    

    This is very interesting...
    
    Gotta give credit to Jack.
    
    Although I think he's being close-minded and overprotective, he calmly
    stuck to his guns when no less than 7 people started attacking his way
    of raising his child.
    Instead of retorting angrily with "It's my child and I can do what I
    want, so piss off" or "I don't care what you think" he responded with
    a statement more along the lines of (in my interpretation) "That may be
    how you think, but this is the way I >feel<." Wow. A calm response to
    attack - in the box, no less! 

    <--- Piss off!
    
    ;')

>>    stuck to his guns when no less than 7 people started attacking his way
>>    of raising his child.

	attacked his way of raising his child??  i suggest you count again.
	you're way off.

    .244
    
    Ok, ok...wrong words again. It's that dang enligh language. Still
    working on it.
    
    How about "indirectly ridiculed his beliefs?"

    
>>    How about "indirectly ridiculed his beliefs?"

	oh okay - yeah, we do that all the time. ;>

  ZZZ    sometimes jack, you really scare me...you really do...
    
    Well, let me put the icing on the cake with the cherry on top...
    
    
    I love you Raq....I have always loved you and will never stop loving
    you!!!!  
    
    
    Now you can be terrified!! :-)
    
    
 ZZ   you have a problem with your son learning about different
 ZZ   cultures!?!?
 ZZ   or do you have the problem with different cultures??  
    
    I awaited this question because I knew somebody would ask. I have
    discuseed this before but it has been a while.
    
    I am particularly sensitive to multiculturalism because I love this
    great country of ours and respect truth, the freedom to think as your
    conscience dictates within the parameters of the law, and the ability
    to minister to your fellow man.  There is a distinction between
    diversity and multicullturalism.  Diversity draws a conclusion...no two
    are exactly the same.  All Americans come in a variety of heritages and
    cultures.  This is something to be valued because their is much to
    learn from one another.  I am a proponent of diversity...why not? 
    Anything other than that is bigotry.
    
    Multiculturalism is my definition of all the nonsense and propoganda
    wrapped up in one neat little package as an attempt to weaken western
    culture and destroy some of the Eurocentric traditions which have made
    this country great, i.e. The freedom of religion, the freedom to raise
    your children as you wish, the value of education, etc.  
    
    Multiculturalism, Raq, consists of the following ideologies or beliefs.
    
    1. All cultures are wonderful and are valuable to the world community.
    
    	-Lie.  Not all cultures are wonderful.  In fact, some of them are
    downright ugly and horrible.  A total disregard for equal rights,
    democracy, etc.  I'm sure Idi Amin would love to have you over for
    dinner some night.
    
    2. Eurocentric thought is evil, dominating, and repressive to the
    world.  Anything other than western thought is good.
    
    3. Because person A came over 200 years ago in chains, all person B's
    now have to reparate all person A's.  Furthermore, there is a myriad of
    other victims going for the same small piece of pie.  Therefore, person
    A's are all bigots, racists, and sexists.  They are the radical right.
    
    4. If you don't think like we do, then you are stupid.  Therefore, you
    need to vote us into office so we can compensate for your stupidity. 
    
    Yes Raq, they think you are stupid and you need to be saved from
    yourself.  Check any history book written after 1990 and you will see 
    alot of all the things which made our country great replaced by
    multiculturalism.  
    
    -Jack

    >How about "indirectly ridiculed his beliefs?"
    
     You make it sound like that's a bad thing. The man banned a program
    from his house on the basis that his child repeated a phrase he heard
    on the program to his father and his father didn't like the sound of it
    (even though he was not familiar with what it meant, and we "indirectly
    ridiculed" him for it. SFW? It seems perfectly reasonable to
    "indirectly ridicule" that sort of behavior. People who make decisions
    based in ignorance ought to expect as much. Not that I question his
    right to make such decisions, but then, I am simply asserting my right
    to find what he's doing to be strange and silly, and to say so.

    ZZZ    Perhaps he needed to urinate, and was doing the potty dance.
    
    Severe laughter!!!!

    Jack, you are opposed to a theocracy then? 

    If you read a few replies back, I said it was the little push I needed
    to shut off Sesame Street.  I didn't act compulsively like..."Oh My
    God!!!  He Said Body Dance!!!!"  No, you're making a mountain out of a
    molehill here.
    
    Let's make this easier.  Sesame Street has become noisy over the last
    year; therefore, I decided to give my three year old a book or a
    baseball instead and shut off Sesame Street.  
    
    -Jack

    .248
    
    If I made it sound like a bad thing, then I am indicting myself. I was
    one of the people I counted. Reread first line, third para of my note.

    
    
    Mark, that's not what he said at all.  He said that was the topper, but
    it had been building for a while.  

60.247
MKOTS3::JMARTIN "I press on toward the goal"         61 lines  25-AUG-1995 13:34
    .............................I am a proponent of diversity...why not?
    Anything other than that is bigotry.

47.536
MKOTS3::JMARTIN "I press on toward the goal"          2 lines  25-AUG-1995 11:19
    By the way, when will the lefty bimbo brigade be going to the largest
    concentration camp in the world?

   JMARTIN,
            Rectum-aperture of the year.
                                                        NNTTM 

    Indirectly?  Not a chance, we all took the full frontal assault route
    complete with war cry and camo paint.  Indirectly, pah!  

     He elucidated on this in a subsequent reply, but reading .217 didn't
    give one the impression that the discussion with his son regarding
    "body dancing" was terribly detailed. He went from "what, where did you
    hear that?" to "Sesame Street is officially banned in my house" in a
    single breath, without stopping along the way to find out what "body
    dancing" is. Of course, if he was just looking for an excuse, then it
    was a mighty tiny straw indeed that "broke the camel's back."

    
    re:.248
    
    > SFW?
    
    Single Female White?
    Stuttering Flightless Whale?
    So Forking What....ahhhhh
    
    

 ZZ      JMARTIN,
 ZZ               Rectum-aperture of the year.
    
    Moyni:
    
    And I stand by it.  Bigotry precludes judgement on ones ideologies.  
    Bigotry is judgement on who one is.  The delegation of women from the
    United States is largely made up of just what I said.  America's best
    whiners and belly achers.  I definitely disqualify them as the cream of
    the crop when it comes to integrity and character.  And quite frankly,
    I'm embarrassed by their attending.
    
    -Jack

           <<< BACK40::BACK40$DKA500:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SOAPBOX.NOTE;1 >>>
                          -< Soapbox.  Just Soapbox. >-
================================================================================
Note 60.217                       Sick & Tired                        217 of 258
MKOTS3::JMARTIN "I press on toward the goal"         15 lines  25-AUG-1995 12:24
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    Another thing.  My three year old comes up to me and
>    says..."Daddy...Body Dance!"  I said, Excuse me???  He said "Body
>    Dance" followed by sucking his thumb.  I said, Andrew, where did you
>    hear this?  He said, "I heard it on Sesame Street." 
>    
>    Sesame Street has officially been banned in our house.  The gangster
>   _____________________________________________________________________ 
    rap is annoying, the multiculturalism makes me want to throw up, and
>    ____________________________________________________________________
    this is the straw that broke the camels back.  
    _____________________________________________
    -Jack
    
    
    Seems to me, he made it clear in the underlined text that he had other
    reasons.

Jack, you're going to give your kid a baseball?!  What if he ends up like
Wade Boggs, Pete Rose, or Darryl Strawberry?

    
    If Jack's kid gets a PC, he could end up like Jake Baker!!!!
    

    Baseball does lead to substance abuse, gambling and sexual promiscuity.
    Half way to becoming a Senator!

    Or Mickey Mantle, or Babe Ruth?
    
    

    last time i checked, multiculturalism and diversity were very similar,
    one is a more specific of the other (so to speak).  in multiculturalism
    there is diversity.  i just don't understand how you can feel one is good 
    yet the other is bad.
    
    and regarding those later text books that you seem to oppose, the way i
    see it, they are just (finally) including more truths to what happened 
    way back when the whiteman wrote the history books.
    

    re: Sesame Street
    
    Hah, I didn't even have to ban it in my house (although I came
    close several times for various reasons), after my kids were around
    three (if even that old) they refused to watch it anymore, because
    they thought it stunk!
    
    re: Annoying Taco Bell commercials
    
    Isn't Taco Bell the Mexican phone company?  But seriously folks,
    how can an alleged restaurant expect its potential customers to
    break down the doors to purchase and consume something called a
    "Volcano Burrito"?  The mere thought of what something with that
    name is going to do, once it gets inside me, is terrifying.  Not
    to mention what it's going to do afterwards.
    
    Chris

 I'd be very happy with Taco Bell, if they'd figure out a way to enable
 a customer to refold a burrito after putting hot sauce on it.  I've
 never been able to do it.



 Jim

    
    You all leave Jack Martin alone.
    
    The man is a prince and one of the great American heroes of our time.
    
    
    
    
    Rob
    

    Methinx it resonated too closely with "horizontal bop" in the ~mind~ of
    Mr. Martin.  So he hadda quick slip the mental condom (i.e., blinders)
    on his kid.  Not that it's BAD to wanna protect yer kids from stuff one
    considers evil...  It's just that we're havin fun lampooning his
    opinions, that's all!! :-}
    

    S&T of the insipid Frank Fescue and the Luuuuube show commercials.  

    
    Ah, the advantages of not watching tv:
    
    >S&T of the insipid Frank Fescue and the Luuuuube show commercials.  
    
    I have _no_ idea who Frank Fescue is. Sounds like I'm a lucky
    guy!!
    
    -b

 As long as they don't start a grass roots campaign to educate us about
 Mr. Fescue, I'll be fine.

Sick and tired of OJ Bloody Bollocky Bastard Simpson.  Yaaaaaaaaaaawwwwnn...

Chris.

    
    re: .272
    
    I keep hoping Marsha goes postal and whacks Johnny Cochrane,
    then elopes with Mark Furman, and F. Lee Bailey turns out
    to be a long-lost Kennedy brother.
    
    -b

	I thought ole F. Lee will be Teddy's first wife in disguise....

    city tax
    state tax
    federal tax
    social security tax
    medicare tax
    city tax (yes again, I pay two different local taxes)
    sales tax
    gas tax (which probably costs you more than the actual fuel)
    beer tax (which goes well beyond sales tax)
    interest tax (retaxed tax)
    utilities tax

    
    You forgot:
    
    Inheritance Tax
    
    Gift Tax
    
    Property Tax
    
    Auto registration
    
    Tolls
    
    Fines
    

       
       Gimme Gimme Gimme Gimme Gimme Gimme Gimme
       
       Leech knows all about Truth, but Morality and Decency have manged
       to elude him.

    I also left out "service" tax, too.

    re: .277
    
    What are you raving about now, Mr_Topaz?  

    re: .275
    
    Get yourself out of Ohio for starters.  The double city income tax was
    the straw that broke this camel's back.
    
    Bob

    Gotta like Texas in that regard.  No city or state tax, though the
    sales tax is what, 8.5%?  At least you have a choice, though.
    
    
    -steve

	Bob..... are you sure it was a straw and not another cigarette that
broke that Joe Camel's back? 

>       Gimme Gimme Gimme Gimme Gimme Gimme
	...alcohol!

Good song, that.

Chris.

    You people have no idea what real taxation is like, however Revenue
    Canada is docile compared to the IRS.

    
    
    Oh come on Glenn!  GST at 7%...then they subtotal, THEN they
    add the PST at 11%, and TAX THE TAX YOU ALREADY PAID!  Every
    single thing I bought up there, I ended up paying the equivalent
    of 18.6% tax!  And the prices!  YEOW!  $2.69 for a 2 litre container 
    of milk! (Approx. 1/2 gallon)  Here, a full gallon of milk is only
    $2.19, and if it's on special, you can get it for $1.99/gallon!
    

    re: .284
    
    And I'd like to keep it that way, thank you.
    
    Bob

    
    
    How true, Bob.  No offense, Glenn, but just cuz you all have it worse
    than we do, doesn't make me feel any better.
    
    
    Mike

    The Italians have it the worsest, which should make you feel a little
    better.
    
    

    
    
    i'm siq and tired.
    
    that's it, just siq and tired.
    
    

    
    I am sick and tired of Hootie and the Blowfish.
    
    I realize that they are the current "flavor-of-the-month" and all that,
    but enough is enough, already.  They're everywhere!  You can't get
    away from them!
    
    It's all a fiendish plot propagated by the Trilateral Commission...
    
    
    
    Rob
    

	No... the plot is really sprung by Barney, Jack. :-)

    
    
    I've been listening to them for quite a while now.  They've got a great
    sound, back to basics.  
    

    
      As I've said for some time, I like their stuff.  Let's serenade
     Martin :
    
      Let her cryyyyyyyyy, let her tears fall down like rain.
      Let her cryyyyyyyyy, if it eases all her pain.
      Let her go, let her walk right out on me.
      And if the sun comes up tomorrow, let her beeeeeeee...
    
      bb

    
    	Wow ... I kinda like that song.  Is that who does it?
    

    
    
    	Yup.
    

    
    eeerrrr....guys, that was Rob that posted the note, not Jack Martin...
    
    HTH
    

    
    	That song sounds very similar to a song by another band that's a
    	few years older ... geez, who/what was it?  Dave Edmunds, maybe?
    	That's who I thought it was at first.
    
    	"We Just Disagree", I think, is the name of the song.
    

 .297  Dave Mason

    
    	Yes ... thanks!!  Too many Daves in the music world.
    
    	8^)
    

    
    Hootie's is better.....

    
    So let's leave it alone
    'Cause we can't see eye-to-eye
    There ain't no good guy
    There ain't no bad guy
    There's only you and me
    And we just disagree..
    

  that H&tBF song is dreck, imo.

    ooooooo ooooooo ooooooo ooo
    
    Oh Oh Ohwoooooo

    
    re.296, Dan
    
    Dan!  Shhhhh...if they want to serenade Jack instead of me, that's
    fine by me.  ;-)
    
    
    
    Rob
    

    I saw them on Letterman last week. 
    
    I, like Dave, couldn't figure out who Hootie was or which one was/could
    have been the Blow Fish.

    .305  so let's recap...

	 - you and dave couldn't figure out which one was hootie.
	 - you and dave like to beat jokes to death.

	  hey, maybe you're twins!

    Yabbut Dave earns 14 million a year and I apparently earn less.

    
    re: .306
    
    As far as I know, there's only one set of twins around here...
    

    
    
    RE: .307  $13.5 million ain't too bad, quitchyer complainin.

    i am sick and tired 
    
    i have the flu and i didn't get any sleep last night.
    

Politically Corect BS -- the latest round that I heard about was on 
National Propaganda Radio yesterday.

The New New Testament of the bible.  There is no God only a Father/Mother, 
there is no son only The Child, there is no kingdom of heaven, it is now a 
dominion.

I am not really into organized religions, I was brought up episcopalian, 
but I don't practice anymore, however, I think this new PC New testament is 
HORSEHOCKEY!  The bible is a book, read it the way it was written and make 
your own interpretations. Don't rewrite the damn thing to meet the current 
socio-political agenda.

--Geoff

>       <<< Note 60.311 by DOCTP::KELLER "Listen to the music play..." >>>
>                     -< AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!! >-
>
>Politically Corect BS -- the latest round that I heard about was on 
             ^^^^^^
	     Correct

--Geoff

    So, you into disorganized religion then?
    
    The Universal Church Of The Slob?
    
    The IRS?
    
    

    
    > The IRS?
    
    Glenn, you're lucky you're in Canadia, down here a comment like that
    could get you 50-75 years....
    
    {crash}
    
    "...what the..."  
    
    "Mr Killoran, you're comming with us"
    
    "NO! WAIT! It was a joke..."
    
    "Tell that to the auditor..."
    
    "HEEEELLLLLPPPP MEEE ! ! ! ! "
    
    {slam}
    

>             <<< Note 60.313 by POLAR::RICHARDSON "Kiss my GAK" >>>
>
>    So, you into disorganized religion then?
>    
>    The Universal Church Of The Slob?
>    
>    The IRS?
 

I'm a druid, my neighbor's to the left worship satan, my neighbors to the 
right are buddhists, and my neighbor's up the hill are just plain heathens. 
 At least that's what I told the Jehova(sp?) Witnesses when they cam to the 
door the other day.

:-)Geoff   
    

    
    > I'm a druid
    
    Cool.   There's not many of us left.
    

  do you _look_ druish?

    
    	Ahah ... another "Spaceballs" fan, perhaps?
    

	Shawn, as is sometimes said in the 'box, "I seen it."

    
    
  do you _look_ druish?
    
    Bluish.  It's the woad.

        The Canonical "good enough for me" 
        [Author(s) unknown {to me, at least.}]
        See the third verse...
         
Let us worship Aphrodite,
Though we hear she's rather flighty
Still she looks great in a nightie
And that's good enough for me.
 
We will pray to Father Zeus
In his temple we'll hang loose
Eating roast beef au jus,
And that's good enough for me.
 
Let us worship like the Druids
Drinking strange fermented fluids
Running naked through the wo-ods,
And that's good enough for me.
 
My roommate worships Buddha.
There is no idol cuter.
Comes in copper, bronze, and pewter,
And that's good enough for me.
 
We will worship Sun Myung Moon
Though we know he is a goon.
All our money he'll have soon.
And that's good enough for me.
 
We will go down to the temple,
Sit on mats woven of hemp(le),
Try to set a good exemple [sic],
And that's good enough for me.
 
We will finally pray to Jesus,
From our sins we hope he frees us,
Eternal life he guarantees us,
And that's good enough for me.
 
Let us pray to Zarathustra
Let us pray just like we useta
I'm a Zarathustra boosta
It's good enough for me.
 
Let us pray like the Egyptians
Build pyramids to put our crypts in
Fill our subways with inscriptions
It's good enough for me.
 
If it's good enough for Dagon
That conservative old pagan
Who still votes for Ronald Reagan
It's good enough for me
 
We will have a mighty orgy,
In the honor of Astarte
It will be one helluva party
And it's good enough for me.
 
We will sacrifice to Yuggoth
Carve the signs of Azathoth
Burn a candle for Yog-Sothoth
And the Goat with a thousand young.
 
We will all be saved by Mithras
We will all be saved by Mithras
Slay the bull and play the zithras
On that resurrection day.
 
We will all bow down to Enlil
We will all bow down to Enlil
Pass your cup and get a refill
With bold Gilgamesh the brave.
 
It was good enough for Loki
It was good enough for Loki
He thinks Thor's a little hokey
And he's good enough for me.
 
We will all go to Nirvana
So be sure to mind your manners
Make a left turn at Savannah
And we'll see the Promised Land.
 
It was good for old Jehova
He had a son who was a nova
Hey there, Mithras move on ova'
A new resurrection day.
 
Where's the gong gang? I can't find it
I think Northwoods is behind it
For they've always been cymbal minded
Yet they're good enough for me.
 
I hear Valkyries a-comin
In the air their song is coming
They forgot the words they're humming
Yet they're good enough for me.
 
There are people into voodoo
Africa has raised a whoodo
Just one little doll will do you
And it's good enough for me.
 
It was good for Thor and Odin
Grab an axe and get your woad on
Till the Giants went and rode in
And it's good enough for me.
 
If your rising sign is Aries
You'll be taken by the faeries
Meet the Buddha in Benares
Where he'll hit you with a pie.
 
There will be a lot of lovin'
When we're gathered in our coven.
Quit your pushin' and your shovin'
So there'll be room enough for me.
 
There are followers of Conan.
And you'll never hear 'em groaning
Followed Crom up to his throne(in)
And it's good enough for me
 
It could be that you're a Parsi.
It could be that you're a Parsi.
Walk on by her; you'll get in free
And you're good enough for me.
 
Azathoth is in his Chaos.
Azathoth is in his Chaos.
Now if only he don't sway us,
Then that's good enough for me.
 
Just like Carlos Casteneda,
Just like Carlos Casteneda,
It'll get you sooner or later
And it's good enough for me.
 
We will venerate Bubastes.
We will venerate Bubastes.
If you like us then just ask us,
And that's good enough for me.
 
We will all sing Hari Krishna.
We will all sing Hari Krishna.
It's not mentioned in the mishna
But that's good enough for me.
 
We will read from the Cabala.
Quote the Tree of Life mandala
It won't get you in Valhalla,
Yet it's good enough for me.
 
If you think that you'll be sa-ved,
If you think that you'll be sa-ved,
If you follow Mogan David,
You're not good enough for me.
 
It's the opera written for us.
We will all join in the chorus.
It's the opera about Boris
Which is Godunov for me.
 
There is room enough in Hades
For lots of criminals and shadies
And disreputable ladies,
And they're good enough for me.
 
To the tune of Handel's "Largo"
We will hymn the gods of cargo
'Til they slap on an embargo
And that's good enough for me.
 
Praise to Popacatapetl
Just a tiny cigarette'll
put him in terrific fettle
so he's good enough for me.
 
We will drive up to Valhalla
riding Beetles, not Impalas
singing "Deutschland Uber Alles"
and that's good enough for me.
 
We will all bow to Hephaestus
As a blacksmith he will test us
'cause his balls are pure asbestos
so he's good enough for me.
 
We will sing of Iluvatur,
Who sent the Valar 'cross the water
To lead Morgoth to the slaughter
And that's just fine with me.
 
We will sing of Foul the Render,
Who's got Drool Rockworm on a bender
In his cave in Kiril Threndor--
They're both too much for me.
 
We will sing the Jug of Issek,
And of Fafhrd his chief mystic,
Though to thieving Mouser will stick,
That's still good enough for me.
 
Of Lord Shardik you must beware;
To please him you must swear;
'Cause enraged he's a real Bear,
And that's good enough for me.
 
You can dance and wave the thyrsos
And sing lots of rowdy verses
Till the neighbors holler curses,
And that's good enough for me.
 
Let us celebrate Jehovah
Who created us \ab/ \ova/
He'll be on tonight on Nova
'cause he's good enough for me.
 
Montezuma used to start out
He would rip a certain part out
You would really eat your heart out
And he's good enough for me.
 
We will go to worship Zeus
Though his morals are quite loose
He gave Leda quite a goose
And he's good enough for me.
 
It was good enough for Loki
For he is the god of Chaos
And this verse doesn't even rhyme, or scan.
Fuck you! It's good enough for me.
 
Let us sing to old Discordia
'Cause it's sure she's never bored ya
And if she's good enough for ya
Then she's good enough for me.
 
We will go to worship Venus
Though we hear she's kind of mean(us)
She might bite you on the--elbow
But she's good enough for me.
 
Well, we went to worship Venus
And, by god, you should have seen us
'Cause the clinic had to screen us
But she's good enough for me.
 
We will go and worship Isis
She will help us in a crisis
And she'll never raise her prices
So she's good enough for me.
 
We will sing a song of Mithras
Let us sing a song of Mithras
But there is no rhyme for Mithras!
Still he's good enough for me.
 
We will go to worship Kali
Hugging her is quite a folly
She'd be quite an armful, golly!
And she's good enough for me.
 
We will all bow down to Allah,
For he gave his loyal follow-
Ers the mighy petro-dollah,
And that's good enough for me.
 
Let us sing to Lord Cthuhlu
Don't let Lovecraft try to fool you
Or the Elder Gods WILL rule you
And that's good enough for me.
 
Let us watch Ka.ka.pa.ull
Frolic in her swimming pool
Subjecting chaos to her rule
And that's all right with me
 
Let's all listen up to Jesus
He says rich folks like old Croesus
Will be damned until Hell freezes
And that don't sound good to me.
 
Let us do our thing for Eris
Goddess of the discord there is
Apple's golden, it's not ferrous
and that's good enough for me
 
Of the Old Ones, none is vaster
Even Cthulhu's not his master
I refer to the unspeakable ------*
and that's good enough for me
 
* Well, do YOU want to say it?
 
Let us worship old Jehovah
All you other gods move ovah
Cause the one God's takin' over
And it's good enough for me
 
Let us sing for Brooharia
Though the blood's a lot less cleaner
It's not Christian Santaria
So it's good enough for me
 
Timmy Leary we will sing to
And the things that he was into
(Well, at least it wasn't Shinto)
And that's good enough for me.
 
Let us sing a praise to Loki
The Norse God of Fire and Chaos
Which is why this verse doesn't rhyme or scan
But it's good enough for me

    
> Drinking strange fermented fluids
    
    See wine note

 I'm sick and tired of Claprood and Whitley (on WRKO for our non New England
 customers).  I've taken to listening to classical music on the way to work 
 in the morning and I arrive in much better spirits.



 Jim

    It's Claptrap and Witless

 whoops...you're right.

 Sorry, I'm too far gone for that ;-)

    RE: .323
    
    Jim,
    
     I've never listened to them, but you obviously made the right choice...
    
    Now... all we have to do is convince you to NOT be a MLB sheep...
    
    
    :) :)
    

    
    If I EVER catch the "adult" male who INSISTS on urinating all over
    the toilet seats here, I WILL force his head into the bowl and flush
    it!
    
    I mean it!  I'm serious!!  Just *try* me!!!    >:^[
    

    Perhaps it's someone with a catheter problem. Did you ever think of
    that Mr. Toilet Policeman? Eh?

    
    Well, then, Mr. Catheter Problem can wipe off the seat when he's
    done hosing it!!!!
    

    Ooops

    What if Mr. Catheter Problem has no hands?

    
    [Insert picture of guy with no hands, with a plastic bag filled
     with yellow liquid, holding a big wad of toilet paper in his
     mouth and making wiping motions around the toilet lid.]
    
    -b

    Isn't Mr. Toilet Policeman insensitive?

    Poor Mr. Catheter Problem.

    re: .333
    
    Thanks for that stunning visual.  It will make purging lunch
    so much easier......

    
    Glad to be of service... we aim to please! [unlike those who
    are the subject of this thread...]
    
    -b

    
    Typical liberal thinking..."Ohhh, I've got a catheter problem and
    no hands, therefore I should not be held responsible for my actions."
    
    Typical victim mentality.
    

    Hey Joan...is that you or your wife??

The Young Ones Book says something along the lines of, "at the party
toilet, all the men must be wearing garden sprinklers on their knobs,
as nothing else can explain the lakes of piss around the toilet".

Alternatively, have a look in rec.arts.bodyart for a particularly
cringeworthy willy `modification'.  Even women cross their legs when
they hear about it.

Chris.

    
    .338:
    
    'smeee, 'smeee!  Sneakin' into Soapbox from node HUMANE 'cuz the
    TRO-AKO link "isn't" down. 
    

    rec.arts.bodyart
    
    Is that on the WWW? If so, what is the rest of the address?

>    rec.arts.bodyart   
>    Is that on the WWW? If so, what is the rest of the address?

that's the usenet discussion group.  For visual excruciation, look up
http://www.io.org/~bme

Chris.

>  http://www.io.org/~bme

        I looked in there once - I'm scared to go near it! :*)
        

	Well, John, the irony of similar occurences in women's bathrooms
	is that the seats only get wet by the women that are afraid to
	sit down.  They must also be afraid to wipe the seats when they
	are done.  Maybe they know something we don't...

    
    	My neighbor is a mechanic, and owns a garage downtown.  A few
    	years ago one of his female customers asked him if she could use
    	the bathroom, and after she left, they discovered a heck of a
    	mess.
    
    	She had apparently been afraid to sit on the seat, so I guess
    	she crouched over it instead and the stuff went EVERYWHERE.  It
    	apparently looked like she hung from a height approaching ceiling
    	level and "let her feces fly with impunity".
    
    	His daughter charged him $10 to clean the mess up for him.  8^)
    

    
    Thanks for sharing.
    
    -b

    Bluuuuuurgh!

    <--  Not only that, but...ick.

    Back to the guy who can't hit it clean; perhaps the person is
    visually impaired????
    
    

    
    Then he should put the seat in the upright position first.
    
    Or use the urinal, which I would think to be easier for a 
    visually-impaired person.
    
    No more of these excuses!!  I know everyone on this floor and
    none of them has any excuse!!!  The head-flush is coming, mark
    my words!!!!
    

    You'd do that to a blind man with no hands and a catheter problem?

    
    Him, and his grandmother too.
    

    
    Cruel, but fair.
    
    

>    	His daughter charged him $10 to clean the mess up for him.
    
Sounds pretty darn reasonable to me. I wonder if she does houses?

    Oh dear! Jack, try some imodium!

    
    {wave}{wave}
    
    I have a cleaning lady!  I have a cleaning lady!
    
    {wave}
    
    

    
    I can't find "imodium" on the periodic table.
    

    
    That's cos it's for a runny bottom, not for periods.   Try pamprin.

>    {wave}{wave}
>    I have a cleaning lady!  I have a cleaning lady!
>    {wave}

{covet}{covet}
Do you suppose she'd commute to Mont Vernon?
{envy}

    
    Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's cleaning lady.
    

    <--- Actually, that's in 10 commandments for real.

    
    Oh, MANnnn...I never get to have ANY fun...
    

    
    I'm doing the Dance of Joy in my clean office.
    
    She even dusted my computer.
    
    

    We have an irresponsible butt head here, who manages to get it all over
    the seat. I mean, lifting the seat up never occured to him of course!
    
    Chris - Why are you looking at these pictures of nobs ? I would expect
    that kinda thing from a certain other boxer {:*)} not you, ya puff!
    
    Glenn - will you stop making me laugh so much !! My terminal already
    tasted my lunch once today !!!

>    Chris - Why are you looking at these pictures of nobs ? I would expect
>    that kinda thing from a certain other boxer {:*)} not you, ya puff!
    
who said anything about knobs?  Ye're the puff, yer bloody perv!

Chris.

>      <<< Note 60.345 by BUSY::SLABOUNTY "Act like you own the company" >>>
>    	She had apparently been afraid to sit on the seat, so I guess
>    	she crouched over it instead and the stuff went EVERYWHERE.  It
>    	apparently looked like she hung from a height approaching ceiling
>    	level and "let her feces fly with impunity".

Yah, I've seen that in the stalls here...
It becomes somewhat more understandable when you realize that in some
cultures, they <crap> squatting over a hole in the floor. Doesn't excuse
making a horrendous mess and leaving it there, though...

    
    Ah, les toilettes de Paris, how I miss them. And miss them.
    And miss them again.

    Yup, Mr. Colon Problem has no excuse really.

       > in some cultures, they [defecate] squatting over a hole in the
       > floor. 
       
       While this seems distinctly odd to most westerners, the squatting
       position is actually much more conducive to getting the job done,
       as it were, than is the sitting position (the gruntaceous muscles,
       I think, are better lined up).  So it's really just a question of
       which style you're more accustomed to.
       
       In terms of hygiene, neither the sitting nor squatting style is
       inherently better: either has the capability to be clean or
       disgusting.  
       
       --Mr Topaz

    
    Yabbut, do they sit or squat over the bidet, that's what
    I wanna know...
    
    -b

    
    	The closer your anatomy is to the water in the bowl, the less of
    	a chance of a major splash during rather spirited "movements".
    

    >	The closer your anatomy is to the water in the bowl, the less of
    >	a chance of a major splash during rather spirited "movements".
    
    Oh, like when the violins kick in during Opus 5?
    
    -b

       
    | In terms of hygiene, neither the sitting nor squatting style is
    | inherently better: either has the capability to be clean or
    | disgusting.
    
    i hope people are taking notes.
          

    
    	RE: Brian
    
    	Actually, more like the double bass in Metallica's "One".
    

    
    However, it's almost impossible to fall into a john while rattarsed
    on vin de table.   The hole in the floor presents considerable
    difficulties to the alcohol-impaired. Or so I discovered in a little
    bar close to the Moulin Rouge one night.
    

	Not to change the subject, but I'm sick and tired of
	women that use "neat seats" (paper product to line the
	toilet seat) and, when it does not flush, actually leave
	the bathroom without re-flushing (leaving the neat seat
	right on the toilet).

	

    Not very neat, is it?

    
    neat-O
    

    
    It would be much less neat for them to leave the stall with
    the seat cover stuck to their behinds.
    
    -b

    
    I never thought there could be a bright side to this...
    
    :^)
    

    
      And while we're at, Dante must have reserved a special circle in
     hell for people with cloth toilet "seat covers", which allow you to
     just push the seat into the up position, then "regain their fluff"
     so as to fall in midstream, so to speak.
    
      bb

    
    How do you think Mz. Deb's friend became a member of the Quarter
    Inch Club?
    
    

    
    Did Deb Bobbitize them?

    The guy had more than one?!?!

    
    > Did Deb Bobbitize them?

    eeerrrr...uuummmm Ms. Deb, you're not upset with me are you?

    :-}  <--- <look of chagrin and concern>

    
    of OJ

    <--- get ready for hours and hours of "news" shows who do the "after OJ"
    stories.  
                                                
    Sickening, it is.

>     <<< Note 60.386 by ACIS01::BATTIS "Have you hugged a cactus today?" >>>
>    of OJ

Me too. Thank <deity> it's over. I sincerely hope "gavel to gavel" coverage
of the civil suits isn't planned...

    .386
    
    One more time !!!
    

    
    Barry, I am going to have to ask mz_deb to {{smaq}} you one for that.

    
    {{{smaq}}}
    
    

    Some guys get all the luck....

    
    Please, Mz_Deb, may I have more ?
    
    

    
    Not if you like it 8^).
    

    
    be careful of what you wish for Barry, it might come true. :-)
    
    mz_deb, the bamboo shoots are enroute via interoffice mail.

    
    Oh good, I love Chinese food.
    

    S&T of all the bloody noise in this, so called, professional working
    environment. 
    
    I hate builders.

    
    The words "Simpson" and "golf" in the same sentence.
    

  .398 stop it then.

    
    I knew I'd get pinched.
    

    
    whiners

    
    shriners
    

    
    minors

 miners

 freightliners

    
    headliners

 catboxliners

    49ers. a football team that used to play against the Bills when O.J.
    played ball and now some of them team members play golf. 

 OJ also played for the 49ers for 1 maybe 2 seasons.




 Jim

> OJ also played for the 49ers for 1 maybe 2 seasons.

	now he just plays golf.
	

>	now he just plays golf.


  It's part of his "shtick" as he continues his unrelenting search for the 
 killer(s) of Nicole and Mr. Goldman.  The trail of the killer(s) led him
 to the Hombre Country Club.  Golf is merely a smokescreen.




 Jim	

	OJ ended his football career in 79 with the 9ers.

    Now I can't watch the 9ers play?!?
    
    {groan}

Not knowing what OFWAMI means.

    
    	Old Fogey Wants A Marriage Initiative
    

    
    ...nnnnnnnnnnnnooooooooooooooooooooo...
    

    
    	Well, I guess it could be
    
    	Our Fair Women Are Mentally Incompetent?
    

    I know I know I know ... and I can't for the life of me remember WHO
     used to sign his notes that way...  If I did, I sure would drop 'im a
    line and ask whythe HECK he never publicly explains it...  I'm loath to
    share what he told me it meant, for (I don't know WHAT) reasons... I
    just seemed private...  

    
    Dr. Dan, try Werner from ::DIGITAL/hth nnttm

    Sheesh, there I was trying to pull a funny and all you folks go and
    twist it into something sem-serious.  Times are tough.

    
    Brian, this is soapbox, don't you know, and anything is fair game.
    I must take you to task for this grievious oversight on your part.
    Do not let it happen again, or you will face dire consequences.

    The Food and Drug Administration. The FDA deceives the American people
    by claiming that they are protecting the health of all Americans. In
    reality, the FDA is responsible for killing more citizens than any
    other group. Through power usurping regulations, the FDA blocks the
    cures for all major diseases. Operating under power mad individuals
    like Dr. David Kessler, the FDA enforces increasingly cost-prohibitive
    compliance to irrational regulations, which in turn blocks scientific
    and medical process. Without these regulations science would be free to,
    and would probably already have, discovered cures for cancer, heart
    disease, AIDS, muscular dystrophy and essentially all other serious
    diseases. 

>                                  Operating under power mad individuals
>    like Dr. David Kessler

{visions of Dr. Kessler in his castle, his faithful hunchback Igor at his side}

How does the FDA prevent European drug companies from finding cures?

    He's absolutely right.  Unfettered by the FDA, encouraged by, and
    heavily funded by their governments, European scientists have
    discovered that the cure to most heart disease is to stop eating fat.

    
    	Watched Dateline last night, did we ?
    
    

    Winter.  I hate it.  The depths of my hate for this season are
    bottomless.  The grit and grime on my car, in my car, in my shoes, in
    my house, the snow drifts, the extra clothing required, the long string
    of overcast days, the annoying psuedo snow storms that accomplish
    nothing but screwing up traffic and gunking up my windshield, the
    morons that haven't clue one how to drive in the rain let alone winter
    conditions.  Yes, folks, I have had it.  I think I need a vacation.......   

    i'm wichoo.  winter sux.  i was almost side-swiped off 290
    last night by a lunatic NY driver.  i haven't felt that enraged
    in years.  i was shaking.
    
    i can't _wait_ for that week in cancun!!!  
    
    

    Me neither!  Did you find a bag large enough for me?  :-)

    yes, but you must practice staying in the fetal 
    position for four hours every night right up to 
    the departure date.

    sorry, andy.  only one carry-on allowed and brian has
    first dibs.

    
    Well??  What about the other luggage??
    
    So it ain't pressurized and cold.... I'll wear long-johns and bring my
    own oxygen....
    
    
     Please????

    
    Boxbash in Bonnie's luggage!
    

    alright, andy.  bring your own jello.  
    
    (hmmm, a cancun boxbash...)

    Wooohooo!  

    
    
    > bring your own jello.
    

	Brian, I agree with you about the winter and all, but I was surprised
to hear that from you. Because with all the grit, people not being able to
drive, etc, comes the kids, the racing, dinners at the mountain, that also deal
with the weather, and you talk about how ggod they are ta boot! :-)


Glen

re: This winter

Me too. Like, REALLY!

Unfortunately I recall the winter of 90-1 or 91-2 or so when we were
pissing and moaning in here about "another Saturday morning snowfall"
right into April.

    I'm sick and tired of people saying "Been there. Done that."
    
    I hate it, I hate it, I hate it.

    been there.  done that.

    
    	Hated it.
    

    
    Cool.
    
    

Got the T-shirt.

Read the book.

    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!!!!!!!!!

    The Newbury by-pass protesters and road protesters in general.
    
    They make me sick. They whinge on about "no pollution" and "look at
    the alternatives". Now they`ve found a rare snail 1" long which
    they say is protected on the site of the Newbury by-pass.
    
    I wonder how they think their food gets onto their supermarket shelves.
    Or if they would like to live in a town congested full of HGV lorries
    night and day.
    
    
    
    
    

Welcome to the world of tree hugging.

I wonder how many people will die so that snail can live?

    
    	Maybe they'll organize a hunger strike or something.
    

    Cargo or escargot.

My wife told me that Mary Tyler Moore has started a movement to save the 
lobsters. Don't these people have anything to do?

    We recognize uniqueness in man made things like paintings, statues and
    buldings and will go to extraordinary lengths to protect those things. 
    But we smirk at the disappearance of unique living things which we have
    no hope of replacing.
    
    I'm not sure how to do the math, but maybe a snail is worth a road or
    two.
    
    Axel

re: Tom

MTM was spotlighted by a Rush a summer or two ago for her efforts (and $ spent)
to save the life of some old/big lobster in a tank at some Left Coast resto.
Has she expanded her field of view on the matter?

    the story in -.1 was the plot for a TV sit-com last night, with MTM as
    a guest star.
    
    							Derek.

How nice for them that they can afford to be altruistic. You don't see too
many people who are struggling to feed their families out protesting to save
the whales, opposing nuclear power, etc.

I am not saying that the whales should be killed, old growth be cut,
endangered species be decimated, etc. In fact, I am probably closer to the
environmentalist persuasion (since I am fortunately well-employed enough to
be). What makes me really sick and tired are these enviro-nazis who:

- apparently don't have jobs, and who don't want jobs, save for protesting.

- think of themselves as the "enlightened", with their opinions having more
  value than the "riffraff".

- pay no mind whatsoever to the consequences of their viewpoint. There are two
  sides to these things, and when you drive thru delapidated  timber towns
  here in WA, you can really see what happens when working people lose their
  livelihoods.

I personally believe that there should never be another old growth tree cut.
There is precious little left, and in practical terms, old growth is not 
really a "renewable" resource. But the planet belongs to everybody. Whether
those people who are educated and well off think of themselves as the
"enlightended" ones, it's only their opinion, one of many.

    You mean like the people who wanted to save the brush rats which ended
    up burning down a neighborhood, killing the residents...and the rats by
    the way?

Didn't hear that story - sounds good tho.

    the brush rats started a fire?

    There was an exclusive neighborhood in California.  Apparently the
    homes were verboten by our government to clear the brush on their own
    properties.  A rare and extinct breed of rat dwelled in the brush and
    it could have caused their endangerment.  
    
    The brush caught fire one day due to the dry weather.  Six houses were
    completely destroyed, some of the residents perished and the rats
    died.  Score one for the tree huggers.
    
    -Jack

The environmental movement, with dishonest politicians, journalists, Hollywood 
stars and college professors exploit every phony notion conjured up by pseudo 
environmentalists. Their save-the-earth movement offers a bonanza of 
opportunities to increase their own power. Political correctness becomes their 
favorite weapon. They get regulations passed which control or influence 
essentially every business. It doesn't seem to bother them that the cost of 
everyday goods, food, automobiles, and housing increase substantially because 
of the regulations created. In essence, they say to hell with the masses, to hell 
with the economy, to hell with the working men and women, who pay for the bogus 
lives of these leeches. If society has to suffer or pay a higher price, so be it. 
They are gunning for power, power taken without producing anything of value in 
return.
 

    then really free market cutting down trees, filling in swamps etc.  As
    long as my taxes are also paying to the tune of at least
    14k/year/logging job, I feel I have a right to protest same.  I also
    was struggling to feed my family while protesting the mess at Rocky
    Flats, something else my hard-earned tax dollars are paying to clean up
    after the mess left by plutonium production, the summitville disaster
    which has left you and me several billions in cleanup dollars, but hey,
    if it saves one job, why should I mind?
    
    

re: .641

Cleaning up environmental problems, that have proven negative health affects
on human beings, is not the same as trying to save lobsters and snails. 

    Frogs in CO are dying off at an alarming rate.  they are likely to be
    much like the canaries carried into mines.  
    
    I am reminded of the fact that we can't live without insects, but
    people still try to eradicate them, even at the cost of beneficials.
    
    meg

Has it been determined that frogs are essential to human life? If so, is it all
human life or specific human life? The problem I have with the save the animals 
mentality is that it is money down a rathole, unless there is a specific human
need involved. Millions of lifeforms have become extinct throughout earths 
history. This is normal evolution. The argument can be made that saving these
animals, when evolution would naturally render them extinct, my be detrimental.

    >The problem I have with the save the animals mentality is that it is 
    >money down a rathole, unless there is a specific human need involved. 
    
    The problem I have with this mentality is that we don't have a complete
    understanding of our ecosystem.  DDT nearly destroyed our entire
    population of raptors before its cumulative effects were recognized-
    now, 30 years later, we may have saved the California COndor from
    extinction.  Maybe not.
    
    Frogs are believed to be more sensitive to changes in our ecosystem
    and a frog die-off, as has been increasing for years, is an indicator
    that something is seriously screwing them up.  Is there a specific
    human need involved?  Have you ever seen a California Condor fly?
    Just what is killing the frogs may affect us directly - it may not.
    But suggesting that we should be unconcerned until we've identified a
    "specific human need" is a protocol as blinkered as calculating the
    benefits of DDT without counting the costs.
    
    DougO

Frogs are used as indicators of environmental health - the aboveground 
equivalent of a canary in a coal mine.  

\C

              eh?
	      /
	  oO)-.
	 /__  _\       
	 \  \(  |      
	  \__|\ {                                             
	  '  '--'   

    Until 10 years ago the California yew tree was a trash bush/tree only
    in the way of loggers.  It is now recognized as a life-saver for women
    and men with advanced breast cancer.  Yes men ACTUALLY do get breast
    cancer.  the Yew has become increasingly scarce because of logging
    activity that discounted this shrub.
    
    Who knows what besides telling us we are defecating in our mess kits
    the frog die off is saying.  
    
    Killng things off with no thought for tomorrow could be the death-knell
    for many of us who may be susceptable to some unforseen or forseen
    disease in the future.
    
    meg
    
    
    
    meg

RE: 60.460 by GENRAL::RALSTON "Fugitive from the law of averages"

> Their save-the-earth movement...

I'm very interested in the health and long term prospects of one species of
life on Earth.  Our children can not be prosperous and healthy in an
unhealthy environment.


Phil

    
    Where do you stop?  There are jobs for poachers who kill elephents for
    their tusks.  There are jobs for people to hunt/kill whales on the open
    ocean.  There are jobs for folks who want to cut down forests where the
    spotted owl live.  There are jobs at stake when someone wants to fill
    in wetlands on their private property to make a mall.  Where do you
    stop?  At a snail?  I probably have a few unique parasites on me, maybe
    I should be a national treasure :^)...

    Dan,
    
    Personally I am beginning to think you are a unique parasite.  I wish
    you luck in finding your place in the food chain.  Pollution knows no
    borders.  There is evidence that wetlands are a filter that helps purge
    toxins out of water.  There are jobs for people who want to grow rice
    in the desert, one of the reasons I no longer buy Californian grown
    rice.  There are organic growers in states that have enough water
    without taking it from a river at taxpayer subsidized expense to flood
    acres of CA desert.  Yep, you and I pay for the water for people to
    grow rice in a climate that was never designed for same.  They couldn't
    afford to do this if the water usage was paid for at the real cost of
    bringing it.

    
    >Personally I am beginning to think you are a unique parasite.
    
    Geez Meg, I wonder what you would call me if I didn't agree with you
    (for the most part).  I asked the questions thinking that at least
    wales/elephents/wetlands protection most people agree on, the spotted
    owl is up for debate in this country (I for one would like to see it
    protected), and the snail thingy is even more up for debate (I really
    don't know where I stand on this issue).  Taken to its extreme though,
    bacteria and viruses could end up being protected species (my comment
    about parasites).

    > wales/elephents/wetlands protection 
    
    Too late.  Exxon just dumped on Wales.
    
    Interesting sidebar to this discussion.  Researchers have been looking
    for the reason why amphibians do not get infected by the scummy water
    in which they live.  Their wet slimy skin as a perfect incubation
    ground for viruses, bacteria and parasites.  It looks like amphibians
    can also produce a new and previously unknown range of antibiotics.
    As our current arsenal of antibiotics was beginning to lose it's
    efficacy, this discovery could prove to be the next generation of
    magic bullets for human diseases.   The ecosystem is like a box of
    crunchy frog chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get.
    get. 

    
    
    There was an article recently about speculation that the depletion of
    the ozone layer has caused stronger UV rays to burn off this protective
    layer the frogs have, thus causing their demise...
    

    
    Wait a minute, wait a minute.  That wasn't Exxon who dumped off the
    coast of Wales - that was Texaco.  TEXACO!  And this spill is 9 million
    gallons LARGER than the one Exxon dumped in Alaska.
    
    
    
    

    According to the Nashua Telegraph, it was an Exxon ship heading to a
    Texaco's Milford Haven refinery.

    re -.3
    
    Sounds like a share holder.

    
    <-- shhhh 8^)
    
    I have reviewed every article on the subject I can find in national and
    international newspapers and nowhere is Exxon mentioned, nowhere.  And 
    believe me, if Exxon were to blame for another spill, the media would 
    be having a field day right about now.
    
    
    

    
    as of yesterday's close Exxon 83 1/8.

    Doesn't much of our rain here originate from the rain forests of
    Brazil? 

No.

Dougo:

    >The problem I have with this mentality is that we don't have a complete
    >understanding of our ecosystem.  

This is true, including the lack of complete understanding as to why perhaps 
millions of animals have become extinct throughout earth's history. Many are 
thought to be becoming extinct presently, on a daily basis. All I'm saying is 
that we need a good reason to interfere with this natural phenomenon. We can't
save them all. So, the only logical thing to do is to save those that are of 
the most proven benefit.

   >But suggesting that we should be unconcerned until we've identified a
   > "specific human need" is a protocol as blinkered as calculating the
   > benefits of DDT without counting the costs.
    
You misunderstand, or more likely I didn't explain it well, I'm not saying 
that we should be unconcerned, I'm saying we should be rational.

...Tom

>I'm very interested in the health and long term prospects of one species of
>life on Earth.  Our children can not be prosperous and healthy in an
>unhealthy environment.

You and I agree 100%

    .482
    
    > we need a good reason to interfere with this natural phenomenon. We can't
    > save them all. So, the only logical thing to do is to save those that are
    > of the most proven benefit.
    
    The problem with that is that if you save cattle, for example, because
    they are of more proven benefit than, say, dart-poison frogs, you may
    well end up destroying dozens of species that could provide medicines
    for curing who knows what illnesses.
    
    Furthermore "most proven benefit" leads to the question of "benefit to
    whom or to what?"

 Z   they are of more proven benefit than, say, dart-poison frogs, you may
 Z       well end up destroying dozens of species that could provide
 Z   medicines
    
    While I see the point here, keep in mind this is the same compelling
    argument prolifers use.  We may have just killed our only genius able
    to find a cure for AIDS.
    
    -Jack

Re: .484, Dick

    >The problem with that is that if you save cattle, for example, because
    >they are of more proven benefit than, say, dart-poison frogs, you may
    >well end up destroying dozens of species that could provide medicines
    >for curing who knows what illnesses.

So, how do we save every animal without going bankrupt when the natural order
is to become extinct, when no longer able to survive in an evolving world?
    
    >Furthermore "most proven benefit" leads to the question of "benefit to
    >whom or to what?"

To those paying the bill. I am willing to pay for what is most beneficial to me.
You are willing to pay for what is most beneficial to you. Let's get together
on those we have in common. 

Are prolifers proliferating?

 Z   To those paying the bill. I am willing to pay for what is most
 Z   beneficial to me.
 Z   You are willing to pay for what is most beneficial to you. 
    
    Shawn, the problem is that you cannot be sure what is most beneficial
    for you.  While you may be interested in decimating the gypsie moth
    population, they may have in fact provided the necessary link for the
    survival of the food chain and you would never know it.  
    
    The best route is to let things happen naturally and if a rat species
    becomes extinct, then so be it.  If the extinction is caused by humans,
    then that's another thing!
    
    -Jack

You did it again Jack!!  It was me, not Shawn.  :)

    Uhhh....sorry

  
    >Shawn, the problem is that you cannot be sure what is most beneficial
    >for you.  While you may be interested in decimating the gypsie moth
    >population, they may have in fact provided the necessary link for the
    >survival of the food chain and you would never know it.  
    
I disagree with you here Jack. I think that I'm the ONLY one who knows what is
good for me. I will never presume to ever know what is best for any other
individual but me.

    >The best route is to let things happen naturally and if a rat species
    >becomes extinct, then so be it.  If the extinction is caused by humans,
    >then that's another thing!
    

So then you agree that lumber should not be harvested, in order to save the 
Spotted Owl, that roads should be stopped to save snails, that businesses should
be halted to save frogs?
 

 Z   I disagree with you here Jack. I think that I'm the ONLY one who knows
 Z   what is
 Z   good for me. I will never presume to ever know what is best for any
 Z   other individual but me.
    
    Tom, you're equating this to something like owning a gun or having an
    abortion.  When I say "you", I am speaking of "you all" meaning the
    existence of the human race.  
    
    I'm confused like the M5 on Star Trek.  I agree with you but I also
    agree we have a fragile ecosystem.  AN-A-LYZE...Error....Error....
    AN-A-LYZE.....You are the Kirk...the creator....

    >Tom, you're equating this to something like owning a gun or having an
    >abortion.  When I say "you", I am speaking of "you all" meaning the
    >existence of the human race.  
   
Who could presume that they know what is best for the human race? It all comes 
down to each individual doing what is best for themselves.

    >I'm confused like the M5 on Star Trek.  I agree with you but I also
    >agree we have a fragile ecosystem.  

Everyone is confused. The problem lies in those who are presumptuous enough
to think they have the answer. Then they take steps to force other to comply
with their thinking.

    You are confused indeed Jack, because Daystom was the creator of the M5
    unit. MY engrams!

    You are referring to Nomad, who though Kirk was the creator.

    V-ger is the creator.

    Yes...well it was actually Dr. Daystrom.  I kept thinking it might have
    been Landrew, but that was the one about the Archons and the wimpy
    priests who weren't absorbed!

    V-ger was a cheap imitation of the creator!  

    "YOU....... COOOOOOOOME"

    uppity carbon unit.  v-ger is the creator.

    I'm sick and tired of this snarf.

    V-Ger was a nympho...a bald nympho.  Deal with it!

    Did she carbon date?

    V-Ger stood for VOYAGER!  don't you know anything???!!!

    He is not of the body.

    .491
    
    > I think that I'm the ONLY one who knows what is
    > good for me.
    
    .493
    
    > Who could presume that they know what is best for the human race?
    
    So you're neither more nor less than an amoral animal responding to the
    First Dynamic, i.e., look out for Number One, and everyone else be
    damned.  As long as that's understood, fine.

    .504
    
    I hear and obey the voice of Landru.

    I can't wait for Festival to start.

    Peace and contentment...to you brother.
    
    (Could you imagine what Soapbox would be like if we were all
    absorbed?!) :-)

   >So you're neither more nor less than an amoral animal responding to the
   > First Dynamic, i.e., look out for Number One, and everyone else be
   > damned.  As long as that's understood, fine.

If this is the impression I left, then what I write is not what I'm thinking. 
Though I don't see how you could get this impression. I mentioned that you and 
I could get together on that which we have in common. You seem to ignore this.

Hypothetical example: Let's say you and I have an interest or maybe a use for 
the leaf of the poison ivy plant. We find that it has beneficial uses for us. 
Let's say our friend Jack Martin becomes infected by just breathing the air 
around poison ivy and wants all poison ivy irradicated. Would it be right for 
you and I to force Jack to endure his problem just because it is good for us?
Is it right for Jack to force the irradication of the plant when it has benefits 
to you and I? Now, because poison ivy is good for you and I, we lobby the 
government to protect the poison ivy plant. We present our case, showing the 
benefits. Jack presents his case showing the adverse effects. Who is right?
Who should win? The answer is both. Between you, Jack and I we can come up with
a solution. Perhaps we start poison ivy farms and place warnings around the 
area, or some other solution satisfactory to all. The situation is win, win. 
This cooperation between individuals is what a society is all about. This is 
not "look out for Number One, and everybody else be damned." This is production 
of values at it's best.

Crying to the government, so that we get our way in the face of others who 
disagree, is a good example of "everybody else be damned."

    .509
    
    The failure to communicate is that I will work toward a solution that
    preserves poison ivy for us while making it possible for Jack not to
    breathe it.  Such a solution might involve genetic engineering such
    that the irritants that bother Jack are removed while the elements we
    find beneficial are retained.  If that's not possible, then maybe the
    solution involves providing Jack with a desensitizing agent or, as an
    alternative, providing us with some other plant that has the same
    benefits.  It's not as simple as just kill the things we don't like
    and save the ones we do.  Were that so, housefiles would be gone in a
    moment - but houseflies do yeoman service in the area of garbage
    recycling, as they live on carrion.
    
    The ultimate point here is that we simply don't know.  The suggestion
    that we let things die that are dying by causes other than human
    intervention while preserving the things that we ourselves are killing
    is a good position from which to negotiate.

    .510
     
    china eradicated houseflies in the early seventies,
    i believe.  it became everyone's patriotic duty to kill
    flies, on sight.  voila.  no more flies.  not such a
    big loss, i might add.

   .511 really?  Oph, are you toying with us?  i know how you get
	on Fridays.

    she is.

    Friday on TV - The Ex Flies, 

    You sure it wasn't a SWAT re-run?

    Bonnie, some years back I remember a story about a small town that
    got rid of most of the flies by requiring that everyone get garbage
    compactors for their kitchens.  (The townspeople wanted to do this
    very much, as I understand it.  They all agreed to do it at the
    same time, pretty much.)

    The flies went away.  There wasn't enough rotting garbage in the
    'staging area', 'collection', and 'disposal' cycles to keep decent
    self-respecting flies in business, so they packed up and moved on. :)

    moi, toy?  non, non.  it was another peoples' campaign.
    i am only unsure about the campaign years...it may have
    happened in the sixties.

    
    
    >it may have happened in the sixties.
    
    
    
    Way before your time... huh???
    
    
     :)
    

  .516  sounds like a pack of flies.

    Good one, Di!  :)
    
    It's a true story, though.

    .517
    
    The sixties?  Tempus fugit.

    they were overrun with flies.  they're such filthy
    little creatures.  the chinese took things in hand.
    if you saw a fly, you stopped what you were doing,
    gave chase, and kilt it.  and there are many, many
    chinese people, remember.

    An entire nation of flies. Undone.

    
    
    Yes, Bonnie... but did they save the maggots for fish-bait???
    
    (re: fish-bait... it's the best, cause it never stops wriggling!!)
    

    maggots are easier to kill.  no wingys.

    
    
    Trout go nuts over them...
    

    HEY!!!!  What about me with the poison ivy.  

    
    <-----
    
    Don't inhale....
    

    We need flies. who's gonna eat all o that dung?

    
    	Tu mange le dung, et morte.
    

   
    >The ultimate point here is that we simply don't know.  The suggestion
    >that we let things die that are dying by causes other than human
    >intervention while preserving the things that we ourselves are killing
    >is a good position from which to negotiate.

Should everyone be forced to negotiate? Should everyone not involved with the
negotiation be forced to conform to the results? Or, should only those to whom 
it is important be involved in the negotiations or conformity to the 
agreements?

By the way, I kill every fly I see.

The arrogance to think a nation can wipe out flies by killing them by hand
is laughable. Clean up the garbage, they won't be attracted, you won't see
them. Besides, even if it was possible, that is precisely the kind of meddling
that disrupts the food chain in a big way.

I don't have the numbers, but I'll bet research would reveal that there are
exactly lebenty-leben times 10 to the umteeth flies in the world for each human.
I think there are at least that many in the immediate region of my face when I
take a walk in the mountains around here in the spring (I know, that leaves me
wide open, but no cracks about hygiene, please :-} ).

Wipe out flies by hand? Try emptying the Pacific with a coffee cup. It will
probably be easier.

    Wasn`t it the Chinese who tried killing a certain type of bird (I can`t
    remember which type) because they kept eating the grain in the fields?
    
    Sadly,because there were no birds to eat the insects,the insects
    totally decimated the harvest that year.
    
    

    
    	RE: Bruce
    
    	If not killing them by hand, how about killing them by fly-
    	swatter?  Would THAT be easier than emptying the Pacific with
    	a coffee cup?  [And what size coffee cup?]
    

Sounds like Bruce is having a bad day.  :)

<--- Naw - just a kneejerk reaction to idiotic govt programs.

<------ Oh. Then it is understandable.

    
       					--------------------------------->
    

Good point   :)

    
    I am, frankly, sick and tired.
    

    Sorry to hear that, Frank.
    -ss

    That's "Frankly"...and a strange name it is.

    
    That's it, I'm done.  I give up.
    

    
    	See, now she IS sick and tired.
    
    	And you brutes have no one else to thank but yourselves.
    

    > See, now she IS sick and tired.
    
    > And you brutes have no one else to thank but yourselves.
    
    I think Mr. Richard Canoe figures in here somewhere as to Mz_Deb's
    problems