Conference napalm::heavy_metal

    Easier than guitar ?  Hmmmm... I dunno about that.
    
    All ya need for guitar is a couple of patterns and a few chords
    and your at least on your way...  The bass means you need perfect
    rhythm and ya GOTTA know your scales.  If ya don't, your doomed
    to a life of being mediocre.  People might think it's easier, and
    while it *may* be, I wouldn't bet on it.  At least with the guitar
    your playing something you can hum along with !

    jc (who is a mediocre guit player and is happy with that)

    GTI
    Don't switch from guitar!!!!! Once you learn how to play it, you
    will never want to put it down....Trust me!!! You can jam on it
    any time you want, I really don't think you could jam with a bass
    unless you had a guitar or some drums accompanying you.  

    
    	Well, it may be a bit easier, but not that much. It's easy to
    	play *any* instrument and sound terrible. I should know because
    	at Berklee, I had to learn Brass, woodwinds, percussion and
    	piano. I was so bad on the clarinet, that my family made me
    	pratice in the garage. 
    
    	The most important thing IMHO about bass is to get a neck that
    	feels right. Some bass' have a neck as big and thick like a
    	horses....... leg and can fatigue your hand if you don't have
    	very long fingers.
                                                                
    	Guy
    
    

                
    Shawn,
    
    Can't you divide your time between both ? When you get guitar burn
    out put it down and pick up a bass.  I would think that playing
    bass would really strengthen your hands and makes bends etc.. much
    easier on an axe.
         
    I guess its a question of cost though.
         
    -Tony

    Years ago when I played, I switched from guitar to bass. For me,
    it was a better instrument. I suppose it's a question of what you
    want to play. For me, my fingers were a little too wide to play
    guitar properly and I found bass a lot easier.
    
    Mind you as previous replies have sdaid, you've got to know what
    you're doing with a bass. Your rhythm's got to be spot on, and without
    a fair knowledge of scales you end up doing single, tonic note bass
    drum patterns (not a lot of fun).
    
    But why not give it a try, you may find you'll like it.
    
    Anyhow, back to the purpose of this note. Does anyone have any info
    on basses and  amps that are worth getting and don't require a second
    mortgage?
    
    Keef.

    RE: .7
    
    Don't listen o him, he's a drummer.  Opppsss, sorry Pete.  ;^)
    
    Of course, I have to plug GK's bass rigs.  They sound pretty hot.
    Also hate to say it, but my friend has a Peavy Foundation (400wt)
    amp that sounds pretty good.

    I'm not a guitarist, nor a bass player, but my brother plays bass and
    picked up a beautiful old Reckenbocker (did I spell that right?) for
    about $300.  I think it's a great sounding bass but you will definitely
    need a good amp for anything to begin sounding good.  Oh, with his
    bass, the guy gave him a copy of an old Playboy centerfold of some babe
    holding the same model and color Reckenbocker!
    
    Hammer_who_probably_didn't_help_much

    RE: Did I spell this right ?
    
    Nope.  Not even close.  It's Rickenbacker.
    
    I've seen that centerfold.  Yum.

    
    	I've have a copy of the centerfold too, she is standing in front
    	of an SVT and ...... she had beautiful eyes ;-).
    
    	Anyway, I use a Kramer Pioneer bass. I bought it new and it came
    	with brass hardware. It was much cheaper than a real Fender
    	presicion. I use a Peavy combo 300. The cost was reasonable
    	and it sounds pretty good. The bass sounds great through the
    	PA. Steve K. got a nice sound with his bass when we did the
    	gig with JamVac.
    
    	The Social Animal's bass player has a nice rig. A Ibanez 800LE
    	bass, a GK head and some homebrew cabs.. great  sound.
    
    	Miguel from The Disturbers has a *nice* Peavy rig. Come to
    	Summerjam to check it out.
    
    	My favorite bass amps are the old ampeg B15s and the Sunn amps
    	from the late 60's.
    
        Rickenbacker's have a nice sound, but I don't like the feel.
    	I played Brian Kelley's BC rich, but the neck was a bit thick.
    
    	And, I got just as many women as the guitar players, except
    	for some reason, they were kinda quite... in public ;-).
    
    	Guy
    

    re: .13
    
    If you like fretless basses, Ibanez has one out now that looks awesome
    and is supposed to sound really good!  I saw one at a local music store
    last night.  Don't know how it felt, since I'm a guitar torturer I
    didn't play it (besides, I can't deal with fretless, I always have my
    intonation way out).  If their guitars are any indication of how their 
    basses are, they should be really nice feeling.
    
    gh

    Ibanez makes some KILLER basses, and some KILLER guitars...
    
    

    
    Yeah , bass.
    
       I have an Ibanez Roadstar II series bass which I've had for about
    4 years now and a Fender Musicmaster bass (shortscale) that I got
    for nothing last year.  I'm currently playing through a REALLY old
    Marshall stack (100 W) - I can't date it , but it does have Jim
    Marshall's signature on every piece of wood.
    
    The Ibanez bass is good - it has IMO a fantastic sound but the neck
    isn't very fast - it took a while for me to get into it.
    
    At the moment I'm looking for a new stack but I'm totally undecided
    on what I want - any comments appreciated.
    
           Mike
    

    
    	How's the Martin Stinger?
    
    	I'm lookin' to possibly buy one (haven't seen it yet, but
    	it sounds like a good deal).
    
    							GTI
    

    I'd say don't buy that cheap stuff, you'll never be happy with it.
    
    gh

    
    	What's wrong with the Martin Stinger?  By "dinosaur" do u
    	mean big or outdated?
    
    	The model in question is a 1988 model, used only 5 times.
    
    	It seems like a good deal ($200 for bass and practice amp),
    	but is it still not a good idea?
    
    	Thanks for any info.
    
    							GTI
    

    re: Shawn
    
    I believe what Matt's trying to say by "dinosaur" is what I might call
    a "beast" (using the term in an uncomplementary context).  He probably
    means that it's hard to play, not necessarily big or outdated.
    
    Just because it's inexpensive doesn't mean it's a good buy.  If it's
    difficult to play or it doesn't sound good, it will not help motivate
    you to play and learn.  I know that, for myself, it's a rush playing on
    a guitar that plays well (even if I don't play it well).  It's really
    frustrating trying to play something that won't stay in tune, or that
    you have to fight with, or won't give ya a good tone.
    
    Another disadvantage is that if you buy an off-brand instrument, it
    won't hold it's value, so unless you get it at an absolutely rock
    bottom price, you'll have a hard time selling it for what you paid for
    it later.  On the other hand, if you buy a quality used instrument,
    you'll almost certainly be able to resell it and not lose money if you
    want to later on.
    
    I'm not saying that every cheap guitar won't play well, it's just that
    you have a much higher chance of getting one that won't when you choose
    in a low price range.  If you buy cheap, chances are that you'll have
    to do some work (or have it done) to get it playable.  I have an Ibanez
    Les Paul copy that I bought for 50 bucks that plays great (after  a bit
    of work).
    
    I think that most musical instruments have a kind of character of their
    own, you need to get one that matches you!  I've found that a lot of
    the less expensive ones don't have a desirable character.  Truuuuuuuust
    me, I've gone through a bunch of guitars.  I've obviously had more
    money then sense (or ability).  It's kind of hard to explain, but
    sometimes you play one and it just feels sooooo right.  
    
    I played a Martin Stinger guitar once and I wasn't impressed at all. 
    It was just another cheap guitar, like any of a dozen Hondo, Series 10,
    bottom of the line Kramer, Memphis, JB Player, or whatever guitars. 
    
    gh (if I were there, perhaps I could help ya out...oh well)
                                                               

    
    	I recently played a Fender (Precision) Squire. It played pretty
    	nice and sounded pretty good. The Squire series is supposed
    	cheaper than a "regular" Fender Precision. FWIW.
    
    	Guy Novello
    

    re: .25
    
    That's an excellent suggestion Guy!  I saw some Squire Precisions and
    Squire Jazz basses at one of the stores I frequent recently and I
    thought the prices were VERY low.  I don't remember exactly what they
    were, but I can call later on today and check.
    
    Gh

    
    
    Re: Fender Squier P-Basses
    
    	In my search for a new bass I checked out the current Fender 
    P-Basses. The Squier is made in Korea & doesn't come with a case.
    The P-Bass is made in Japan and costs ~$100 more than the 
    Squier. I'm not sure if it comes with a case or not. The Squier
    is only available with a rosewood fingerboard, the Japanese
    P-Bass is available with either rosewood or maple (my fave) on
    the fingerboard. The only other new P-Basses are the "vintage"
    series, which are reissues of the early (late 50's, early 60's)
    basses. I didn't check them out, but I understand that they are 
    pretty pricey. 
    
    	FWIW, I picked up a Peavey Fury Bass for $240 new. It sounds 
    (and plays) as well as any Fender I've ever played. Just ask 
    Al Starr, He'll tell Ya... :-)
    
    -Tom (Sorry's *real* Bass Player)

        Tom,

        What are you doing in here?  What if one of your students sees
     you?    ;^)

        Was there any noticable difference in workmanship or quality of
     the bass made in Korea as opposed to the one made in Japan other
     than the availibility of different fingerboards?

        Vicki

    
    
    	I'm pretty sure that the squiers use cheaper wood for the
    bodies and neck. They also have cheaper hardware.
    
    -Tom
    

> It sounds (and plays) as well as any Fender I've ever played. Just ask 
> Al Starr, He'll tell Ya... :-)

Don't look at me - all I know about bass players is that they always think the 
guitars are too loud!  

8^)

Actually, his bass does sound real good (I even played around with it for a 
bit, and it plays nice also). Quite a good deal overall, considering the 
price...

cat

    re: .33
    
>Don't look at me - all I know about bass players is that they always think the 
>guitars are too loud!  

    They're ALL like that, aren't they!  Keyboard players too!
    
    Back on the topic, I checked the prices on the Squier P-bass and it's
    going for around $270.  I don't know if the store was including a case
    for that or not (probably not).  I thought it looked very nice, but I
    didn't play with it.  I think the Squier Jazz bass was about the same
    price.
    
    gh ("Uh...hey Greg can you turn down, I can't hear the monitors")

    	
    	As a bassist who has played in bands that ranged from hard-core to
    soft rock, my favorite bass, and the same one I have today is 
    a Guild Pilot.  It's 3 years old now, and came stocked with EMG
    pickups.  It's got a great smooth feel and action.  I love it.  I paid 
    about $750 for it. 
    	As far as amps go, I've been using a Peavey TNT 130.  I've used it
    live and in the studio, and can't complain.  If you want to crunch,
    it's got a lot of punch!  (I'm a poet and I didn't even know it. :-)
    It's also got a great smooth sound, and is great anywhere.  ($550)
    	My favorite amps of all time have to be Guild/Hartken.  Those are
    just killer, and I only wish I could afford one.
    
    Steve

    
    I didn't know Guild/Hartke made amps?!  I know about their cabinets.
    
    My system I just sold (due to some financial problems) consisted
    of a Pierce BP-1 Bass Preamp with the Billy Sheehan Modification
    on Channel One, a Rane 3-way crossover, highs into a 100 watt Carver
    Power Amp into a Hartke 2x10 cab, Mids into a 200 watt Carver Power
    amp into a Hartke 4x10 cab, and lows into another 200 watt carver
    power amp into a Hartke 1x15 cab.  Also included within the rack
    system were a BBE Sonic Maximizer (still have), a Nady 750 Wireless
    (still have), a DBX 160 (still have) and my new toy an ART SGE.
    This system kicked.  I've just started buying again, the only thing
    I will probably change is the crossover and maybe going to the new
    Carvin Power amps (maybe).
    
    Mr. Ed

I noticed that noone really has entered a reply discussing what basses and amps
are good for playing HM and why.  Here's my two cents, although I currently
don't play HM but did my share of thrashing about in my younger days.  this
will be long, so skip this if you're easily bored  8^)  8^).


Essentially all basses under $700 are variations on the Fender Precision and
Jazz basses.  Over that price, brands like Rickenbacker, Alembic, Steinberger,
etc. offer some alternative sounds and feels.

The heart of the Fender sound is pickup location.  Both the Precision (P-bass)
and Jazz (J-bass) have a pickup mounted halfway between the end of the
fingerboard and the bridge.  This location provides a punchy tight sound but
*not* a lot of bottom.  Actually, too much bottom and all you get is mud....try
an old Gibson EB-0 to see what I mean.  The bridge pickup on the J-bass has
even less bottom but a very bright, almost brittle, high end.  

The current trend on basses is the so-called P-J pickup setup, that is a P-bass
pickup in the standard location plus one J-bass pickup mounted at the bridge. 
This gives the basic P-bass tone plus the ability to bring in additional high
end.  For the bright, ringing tone heard on HM records these days, you will
probably want a two-pickup bass.

Brands?  At the just-over-$200 level, Squier (Korean made for Fender), Ibanez,
Yamaha and Peavey make the best instruments.  Once you get to the $400 level,
Fender, Guild, Kramer, Charvel, etc. all offer good instruments.  Just don't
plan on spending under $200 unless it's second-hand and you have a bassist who
can verify it's a good deal.

For strings, you will want to use roundwound strings to get that piano-like
tone.  Rotosounds are far and away the most popular string amongst HM bassists.
They will cause lots of fret wear and at least one manufacturer (Rickenbacker)
voids their warranty if you use them.  I personally don't like Rotos, but if I
played *only* HM I would probably use them.


What about amps?

Until 1968, the state of the art was the Fender Bassman, 50 watts into two 15"
drivers.  Noone in their right mind would use such a rig today, 50 watts is
underpowered for loud rock music.  On the other hand, huge megawatt rigs are
also not necessary (although they can sound great).

My reasoning is this:  In a band starting out, often the PA only supports the
vocals.  If the instrument amps are cranked too high, you won't hear the
vocals.  Once you start using big PAs to carry the instruments, the bass amp
becomes simply a monitor for the players on stage.  Most sound men take the
bass using a direct box, that splits the signal *before* it reaches the map. 
Thus, the amp is there just for on-stage monitoring and doesn't have to be
incredibly loud to fill the room.  This holds true for recording as well.  I
have yet to do a studio project where I even plugged into an amp.

The one requirement for HM that I hear is that compression is pretty mandatory
to get the right sound.  Compression lowers the volume of signal peaks and
boosts volume of weak notes.  This provides a smooth, punchy sound that cuts
through a mix but at the same time limits your control of dynamics.  For most
music, I prefer to play without compression, but for loud rock it is almost a
requirement.  Some modern amps have compressors built in, and there are many
excellent rack-mountable compressors that will do the job for you.  I would
avoid stomp box compressors since they tend to be noisy and optimized for
guitar use.  As a word to the wise for beginners, since compressors even out
sloppy playing, you should practice with the compression *off* in order to
hear your fingering problems as they really exist.

Now let's talk speakers.  For a single speaker, a 15" driver is the way to go,
period.  For multiple speakers, there are a number of standard setups: two 15",
four or eight 10", one 18" (or 15") plus two 10", two 15" plus two 10" the most
common. The cabinets using multiple sizes are intended for biamping, where you
have one amplifier driving the low end and one driving the high end.  Biamp
setups can provide a much cleaner, punchier sound at high volumes and are well
worth investigating.  For particular speakers, I think the Electro-Voice
EVM-15L is the best 15" for HM use as it is almost indestructible, is efficient
and has an extended upper midrange response.  For particular cabinets, I like
the Mesa twin 15" cabinet (loaded with EVM-15Ls) for full range setups and the
Peavey 1820 (one 18" plus two 10") is ideal for biamp setups.  There are other
cabinets like EAW and Hartke that are worth looking into, but they are
*expensive*.  

As far as amp heads, Peavey and Ampeg make a number of traditional type amp
heads ranging from 100 to 600 watts.  Peavey in particular is a very
progressive company, building lots of goodies like chorus, graphic and
parametric EQ, compression, etc. into their heads, plus allowing lots of
patching capability to add external effects or expand into biamp setups.
A more modern development is high-power compact rack-mountable amps that look
more like stereo gear then bass amps.  The Gallien-Kreuger 400RB is well known
and is a good, solid 200 watt amp in a ridiculously small package.  This amp
plus a compressor and a two 15" cab makes a good simple rig.  For biamping the
G-K 800RB, Peavey MegaBass and the Carvin ProBass are all good heads offering
400 watts of total power.  For high power full range applications, Marshall has
a very nice rack-mountable 300 watter.  Some other less-known brands that are
excellent amps are AMP, SWR and Trace-Elliot (Trace is $$$$BIG$$$ $$$BUCKS$$$).
Unless you like the weight and maintenance, avoid big tube amps like the Ampeg
SVT.

How much power do you need?  For HM, I would say 200 to 400 watts will give you
enough power.  Think back to what I said about the amp being a *monitor*.  The
louder everyone (including the guitarists) plays onstage, the louder the vocal
monitors must be, the harder the drummer has to play, etc.  A good rule of
thumb is to add speakers before increasing power.  A 200 watt with two 15" will
be about as loud as a 400 watt head driving one 15", etc.  Consider running two
cabs, one on each side of the stage, to provide better coverage without having
to crank up in volume.


I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with what I've said above. Again, I
don't play HM or loud rock anymore, but I used to and found out a lot of the
above by experience.  My approach has always been to minimize the size of my
rig (remember you have to move the thing around), keep the expense reasonable
but to get as much sound per ounce/buck as I could.  I've made my share of
bonehead purchases and it took me awhile to understand how to correct problems
that I had with my sound, but I think today's equipment is better than it has
ever been and it's really easy to get a great bass sound these days.  Enjoy!!!

							Brian

    
    
    I paid $750 for my Guild Pilot...
    
    Steve

    re.40
    My dad can beat up your dad.
    
    /Motorbreath

    Re: .38
    
    Nice job on the primer Brian!
    
    Mike

    re: .38
    
    Brian, I'd also like to thank you for your primer. It's good for people
    starting out. in fact, I can think of a one instance that bears out
    what you recommend.
    
    Have you ever seen Motorhead?
    
    Lemmy has one of the largest bass rigs I've ever seen. It is 2 stacks,
    either side of the drummer. And it is ****** loud. (sorry, what did you
    say?)
    
    Having said the whole BAND set up is balanced. There is good coverage
    on stage (the guitarists say that in concert all they can hear is the
    drums and the bass) and the PA is PLENTY big enough.
    
    So I suppose the bottom line is get the best gear you can, but don't
    overstate yourself.
    
    Keef.

    Some recent guit mag had a pic of John Entwistles rigg.  F*cking
    MAMMOTH !  Yeow !  I thought I was loud !
    
    jc

    
    	
    	Re: .-1
    
    		Completely amazing. I forget what mag it was, but he
    had a cab that had something like 30 5 (yes *five*) inchs speakers
    in it. That was in addition to other cabs he had. But, he gets a
    great tone! 
    
    MrB.
    

    Wasn't that guitar world ? The one with Satch on the front ?

    I noticed that wierd cabinet with the little speakers in it during the
    "Tommy" broadcast.  What brand/type speakers (the 5" ones) are in that
    cabinet?  Seems like a really wild idea.
    
    Greg

    
    Okay, here goes:
    
    The head nut on my bass seems to be wearing.  It won't hold the
    G-string in place at all, let alone enough to use it.
    
    Any suggestions on repair?  Can I just dig the groove deeper or am I
    going to have to have the nut replaced?  If so, what am I looking at
    for cost and time restraints?
    
    Thanks,
    Steve

    Replacing the nut is easy... Hammer it out, clean up the groove
    and stick in a new one (made of graphite on a bass maybe??).
    Take you an hour max...  Or bring it to MacDuffs in Shrewsbury next
    to spags and let him do it while you shop next door...
    
    jc  (Who estimates Rich might charge you $20 max)

    Geez Coop!  You have to be a little more careful then *that*!
    
    When you remove the old nut, be sure to score through the finish that's
    on it with an X-acto knife first.  It may also help to steam it for
    just a few seconds.  Don't just go in there with your hammer and whack
    on it, because you're likely to break something, screw up your finish,
    or something.
    
    In a way, he's right Steve.  It's not that big a deal to change it 
    yourself, however it really helps to have nut files to get the string
    slots the correct size and shape.  If I needed to do it and didn't have
    the nut files (which I do) I'd probably take it somewhere and save
    myself the hassle.  It won't cost very much.
    
    A nice bone nut blank will cost you about $2-3 and a graphite one about
    $5.  
    
    You *may* be able to cut the slot a little deeper, depending on how
    much play they left in it the last time it was set up.  I'm not real
    familiar with how much clearance you want to maintain on a bass, but on
    a guitar you fret it at the third fret and then see how much clearance
    you have over the first fret.  It should be pretty small, just enough
    to see some light through (maybe .010 or so).  If it's touching the
    first fret the nut slot is too deep and will reduce your playability
    and create buzzes and such.
    
    Be careful when you do it.  If you aren't sure you can do it yourself
    you're probably better off taking it to a repairman.
    
    Greg

    
    	 A good wat to check the nut depth/height is to note it at the
    12th fret......look and you should see the space increase around
    6th to 7th....from there down to the 1st there should be no
    touching...if there is youll either have to raise you nut..or adjust
    the action...a bit...
    
    BK
    

    >Pretty good for playing  a  Kubicki  Ex-Factor 4 Bass !
    
    Why?  Don't you like those?  I'd heard they played really hot.  They're
    made by Fender these days, FWIW.
    
    gh

    
    
    
    
    
    
                BASSIST'S  DO  IT  DEEPER!
    

	RE-1

		You got anything else to do?????

	/CQ

    
    
     and You all thaught I was Bad....hardy har har ...heh heh huh heh...
    
    /Sax
    

    .56 I'm sorry but that was funny.  
    
    agagagagagaga

    
    
    
    Ahemm.....