| > nobody complains about Zeppelin stealing blues riffs
Oh, that's not true at all!!! There are *many* detractors of Zep, most of
whom say that LZ did nothing except rip off poor blues artists, and not even
give them song-writing credtis/royalties. And also, they were accused of
being nothing more than a Jeff Beck Group clone.
The furor died away as Zep showed that it was more than just a blues-clone,
but those early albums really got slagged hard when they were released.
> Yet in Metal, when someone uses a like progression it's always, "he's stealing
> that riff" from this or that person.
Well, IMO, not that many bands steal 'progressions'. What happens more often
is that a band will steal an entire 'sound' or the 'look' of the band. For
instance, when Bon Jovi made it big, all of a sudden there was a whole flock
of bands, all of whom looked just like Bon Jovi, releasing albums.
This is also true for the 'sound' of the band. While Bon Jovi may have better
songwriting, they don't sound (production-wise) that different from Skid Row,
who is not that different from White Lion, who is not that different from
Winger, who is......
I *know* that these bands do not necessarily always sound alike, but their
productions ('sound') are very similar - glossy finish, layers of keyboards,
non-offensive rock guitar, lotsa high harmonies on the chorus, 'safe' lyrics
that won't offend radio/MTV programmers.
So, while there probably is some stealing of 'prgressions', I don't think it
is just there - the whole HM industry is sorta incestuous, IMO.
cat
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| Seems that in the bluez, it's more of how you *feel* a lick
or progression, not how you play it, or where it came from...
Take Crossroads for instance... How many bands have covered this?
Same lick, deferent everytime. Compare Skynyrds and Claptons
arrangements... Way off... But the lick is the same.
Then there is my version... Heh-heh-heh...
jc
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While I tend to not define everyone's use of something from the
past as "stealing" I agree that proper credit should have or be
given in some cases.
Also, while many songs, riffs, melodies, etc. were taken from the
past in some cases the new arrangement hardly makes it a simple
"rip-of", many of the early songs I've heard are barely recognizable
as being the "same" song when compared to the newer version or song
which is linked to the past.
Yea, I agree there's definitely two sides to this, no way is metal
the the only ones to be criticized of this. I would say that some
bands were criticized so much for this that it seems to have over
shadowed their later work. After all the Rolling Stones first
two records or so were straight out blues tribute records but they
progressed from that soon after...
I recently read a very neg. review on the Black Crowes that while I'n not
trying to defend them pretty much slag them for stealing everything
from album titles to songs, etc...it would be a shame for some things
in the past to get pushed under the rug and never heard again from
wither in new light or in original form in favor of new ideas being
picked out of the air. I think some combination of both works best.
I tend to sometimes like updated versions of things or things that
have a foundation that was itself very good. For instance it
seems everywhere I turn these days someone who has a strong punk
appreciation they use this as a base. I think the blues base
has saturated a bit. Whatever the base it can develop into a new
or differing style of music than it's rooted in.
I hate some of the stuff that goes on, I recall reading a band
description that went on to say yea, we have one funk tune, one
blues tune, one this, one that which is not to say that variety is
bad but if in doing this if you don't maintain your band's style
then I don't like it...A local band from Boston reminds me of
the good points of this...Youth in Asia...when they first started
to play I quickly thought they sounded like Rush musically with a
Discord band like vocals but I was wrong as they did manage to
play a variety of up tempo and slower things without sounding
like any one which these days I think is very hard to do..I was
very impressed with them.
this should bore some of you....good!
<<< USOPS::LED_ZEPPELIN.NOTE >>>
-< Led Zeppelin >-
================================================================================
Note 36.5 Non-Zep - EARLY Artists 5 of 12
SOURCE::ZAPPIA "gamblin' on my mind" 117 lines 1-AUG-1991 02:22
-< one step forward two steps back >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mostly from Goldmine, August 24, 1990...w/o...a Robert Godwin article.
"Black Mountain Side" was originally a vocal favorite by Bert Jansch
called "Black Water Side". {See Pentangle and solo work.}
"Communication Breakdown" - ..."extraordinary rearrangement of Eddie
Cochran's staccato guitar part from his huge '50s hit "Nervous
Breakdown".
"Whole Lotta Love" - {we've probably all heard about the Willie Dixon's
out of court settlement on this one some years later when he recognized
the lyrics as being from his "You Need Love"but} "...the arrangement was
more towards the Small Faces' "You Need Lovin'" {I wonder what ever
happened with their doing "I Can't Quit You..." which was obviously
just their cover version.}
"How Many More Times" - "an ingenious combination of "How Many More
Years" written by Howlin' Wolf (Chester Burnett) and "The Hunter"
written by Booker T. Jones, along with MG's Steve Cropper and Donald
"Duck" Dunn who were the backing band for the great Albert King."
"The Lemon Song" - "...which was clever adaptation of "Killing Floor"
by Chester Burnett. combined with Robert Johnson's lyrics from
"Travelin' Riverside Blues". Early U.K. pressing credited
Burnett. {Side track, Led Zeppelin I - Robert Plant was still
under license with CBS (?) and as result could not be credited
where credit was do (- creative forces kicked in during later
years or simply that's when they were allowed to take over...
actually when Page was relived to have Robert at the helms
lyrically.
"Bring It On Home" was also written by Willie Dixon for Sonny Boy
Williamson."
"Gallow's Pole" was originally written by Huddy (better known as
Leadbelly) Ledbetter in the 1920s! Although Page says he was
originally inspired by a later performance, there can be no question
that some of Leadbelley's guitar parts found a home in songs
like "Bron-y-Aur Stomp". "Hat's Off To (Roy) Harper was a tribute
England's eccentric folk singer, although it was more a tribute
to how many old blues lyrics Robert could squeeze into one song.
Listen to Sonny Terry's "Custard Pie" and Bukka White's "Shake
'Em On Down" recorded in 1963, among others." {Also, see earlier
reference to "Death Letter" by Son House.
"The drum intro into "Rock And Roll" was John Bonham having a
flashback to Little Richards's "Keep A-Knockin'". {I forget the
drummer who this probably was....Alan???}
"In My Time of Dying" has been mentioned already but this was
the same lyrics as Bob Dylan in the early '60s, it was a reworking
of Blind Willie Johnson's "Jesus Make Up My Dying Bed", recorded
in 1927.
Also, "Nobody's Fault But Mine" was made up from Willie's "It's
Nobody's Fault But Mine". {Willie did some fine guitar work on
his original and it's no wonder that Page...Other than the words
you may never recognized them as the same songs, likewise with
Robert Johnson original Travelin' Riverside Blues" but there's
no doubt if the foundation is solid....}
"Just as "Trampled Underfoot" was about a car so was R.J.'s
"Terraplane Blues". The words were not taken but it's been said
that Johnson's guitar arrangement can be heard on the keyboards of
Trampled."
On the other side of the fence, Plant's solo album "Now and Zen"
the song "Heaven Knows" was simply a rewrite of Kashmir and the
cycle continues....{Robert didn't even pick up on it. I'll have to
pay close attention next time I hear it.} Also "Tie Die on the
Highway" can be traced back to Jimmy's track "Glimpses"...during
the Yardbird days.
"Boogie with Stu" was nothing more or less than a great performance
of Ritchie Valen's "Ooh My Head."
"Hots On For Nowhere" was quite similar to Jimmy's "Union Car Jack"
which he wrote for Screaming Lord Sutch in 1970 although Plant's
lyrics were much better."
"Tea For One" was similar in feeling to "Since I've Been Loving You"
which borrowed some lyrics from a Moby Grape track {Plant liked 'em!}
"I've seen an old blues record with a title "In the Evening" but I've
never been able to find it again. Even though it was just curiosity
I should have picked it up and gave it a listen! "Again Page borrowed
from his own past, although it was probably subconsciously - "Gloria"
the huge '60's hit for Van Morrison and Them." I don't entirely agree
with this, the guitar work isn't that similar to "In The Evening".}
"Ben E. Kings "We're Gonna Groove".
The kettle has gone dry or I have...
Just a couple comments;
Would I be enjoying Robert Johnson and many other early blues artists
now if not for this band? Possibly not. Just by some of the titles
and lyrics being used so expicitly in some cases I tend to look
positively on their manner in doing so. I've always said credits
could have been handlled differently but it's easy to say what should
have been. After all, even though I really enjoy the early
Rolling Stones it's interesting to note a entire record called
"Stoned Alchemy" which features the originals to many of their songs.
Also, some tracks like "Nobody's Fault" and "Travelen'... are hardly
what I would call simple covers. 'nough on that/this.
I have ran across some of these original tracks while browsing the
'ole blues bins and such but for the most part it's been stumbling,
and mainly a fact of being there for the enjoyment of the early blues
not to be searching outright. At least not consciously!
- Jim
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