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Conference napalm::heavy_metal

Title:HEAVY_METAL - Talent Round-Up DayDay
Notice:Rules-2.*,Directory-7.*,Roster-3.*,Garbage-99.*
Moderator:BUSY::SLABB
Created:Thu May 05 1988
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1238
Total number of notes:65616

217.0. "What is 'production'?" by ANT::SLABOUNTY (I like njection but'd rthr be blown) Tue Aug 30 1988 07:31

    One of our discussions Sunday was the 'production' of albums,
    and how well an album was 'produced'.

    It was said that the production can be good, but the songs
    could still be horrible - what is 'production'?

    Is it the final mixing, or the added keyboards or whatever?

                                                       GTI
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217.1NINJA::COOPERI got the tone, He's got the bone !Tue Aug 30 1988 10:575
    I'm no expert, but I'd say it's the final mix in conjunction with the
    original trax...The FX mix etc... The album that struck me as "Best
    Produced" was Bostons first. 
    
    jc
217.2ooops - I meant 'cat' at the bottom!HAZEL::STARRYou ain't nothin' but fine, fine, fine!Tue Aug 30 1988 12:1632
I'm sure soemone will volunteer more info, but here is some that I know of.

First of all, in this day and age, a producer has more effect than ever
on how a record sounds and the quality of it. In the old days, bands used
to pretty much set up live in the studio, maybe overdub a couple of solos
or backgroud vocals, and then put it out. The producer's job was to get
the best take down onto tape.

Now, it is much more complicated. Many of todays top producers are also
songwriters and instrumentalists and singers. They usually work with the
band to help write songs. They will bring in outside songwriters if
they feel its needed. They help to arrange the songs that are already
written (should it have horns? should there be another solo? should it
fade or have a cold ending? - these are the kind of questions that an
arranger answers). Then there is the production itself. Sound quality -
the miking of the instruments, the artist's performance, the overdubbing,
the addition of studio musicians - all of these come from the producer.
And then there is the final mixdown - should the drums be louder? should
there background vocals be softer? should they double the lead guitar
for a fuller sound?

HM producer's probably don't do quite as much as pop/rock producers do,
since metal bands seem to have an attitude about being independent
("This is OUR music, and nobody tells us how it should sound!"), instead
of working in cooperation with a producer. But not always - listen to
"Drive" by the Cars and then "Love Bites" by Def Leppard - the drums sound
*exactly* the same - I knew it was the same producer (Jeff 'Mutt' Lange).

Well, enough babbling for now. Some people may have more comments, but
that will give you an idea.

cact
217.3Buck's producer definition (hey, I studied to be one!)MARKER::BUCKLEYMickey D. > a Quayle in the Bush!Tue Aug 30 1988 13:1186
    
    A producer, regardless of genre, is a person who's role is to 
    `produce' a finished product.  He/she is actually more literally
    an arranger, engineer, composer, director, accountant, decision
    maker, planner, pretty much the brains of the operation.
    
    Often a band is given a producer to work with (they often don't
    have the choice!) by the record company they work for.  Sometimes,
    if they're a bigger act, they can request a certain producer (if/when
    available).
    
    At the start of a project (demo, single, ep, album), the producer
    will go through `pre-production'.  Its the busy work that is done
    before the act goes in the studio.  Its the most important phase
    of a production, because when your in the studio, time is money,
    so idealy everything should be worked out by then.  First, the
    producer will go to rehearsals with the band & listen to all their
    songs.  He'll make notes, and start making comments/suggetions
    sometimes direct orders on how the song should be structured
    (arrangment), part that should be played, etc.  At this time he'll
    be working on a budget for the project. This includes pre-production
    time, studio expenses, any additional expenses incured in the projext
    (ie- meals, transportation, equipment rental, hotel accom., etc).
    Pre-production will work each song into a format. Everything will
    be broken down and worked on by the band (under the producer's
    supervision). This includes vocals, bass and drums, guitar work,
    and textures like keys, overdubbed guitars, etc).
    
    Ok, the band has it sh*t together...into the studio.  The producer
    now has the responsibility to a) make sure the time in the studio
    is used wisely...he has set up a budget, time is booked, he needs
    to get X done by Y.  b) make sure the band get the best performance
    on tape (within reas. time), this is moreso directed towards the
    basic tracks...in multi tracking, its the drums specifically, cus
    they are the first thing that is layed onto tape (sidenote-that;s
    why CInderella always has guest drummers on their albums..their
    producer is a drumming nit-picker who wants it PERFECT, obviously
    their own drummer can't do it, they hired someone else!). So, in
    the studio, the producer is boss. He tells the engineer what to do
    for him (enginner is just a technical slave, no input to project
    whatsoever), he tells the musicians what to do, he tells the studio
    maintenance people what to do...a producer is god in the studio!
    (sidenote-this thing about bands doing `what they want' regardless
    of the producer...bah! I'd like to see it!! The band has diddly
    to say about it, the record co. has put your producer in charge,
    you answer to him/her, or you better find another record label (I
    mean, the record co is footing the bill anyway, so you do what THEY
    say). 
    
    Anyway, Basic tracks done, overdubs done. Mixing is next.  the producer
    is the person who has the conception of how the mix will sound.
    His ideas of effects, levels, final arrangement of song (they can,
    and do splice the tape up into new arr. even after the mix is done
    to please a producer), and sweetening (adding of effects to an
    already mixed tape (this is getting into post production).
    
    Ok, so I babbled a bit.  Do you see that the producer IS the project?
    When you her a song, its not Anthrax' sound, or metallica's sound,
    or White Lion's sound...they wrote the tunes, but the SOUND is the
    producer talking...and the artists music speaks through his/her
    `voice'.  
    
    Note - I said earlier, the record co. fronts the $$ for the project
    (producer submits budget to record co. for approval. If approved,
    that's how much he gets, no more, no less. That's why being on time
    and the band having its sh*t together is so important.  The fronting
    of this money is called Recoupables.  It is a debt. that the band
    owes the record co.  Also in the Recoup. fund is any Videos the
    band does, and your tour (which includes everything a tour encompasses:
    tshirts, programs, rigging, lights, sound equip, a road crew, logging,
    transportation, etc etc etc).  Anyway, the producer and band doesn't
    see a CENT until the recoop. bill is payed up.
    
    Example.  band A - The Metalheads, jsut finished their first album.
    It cost them $900,000 to make. The producer's fee was $300,000 (yes,
    often a 1/3 of the final project cost), and the pressing, cd single,
    and first video came in at (a cheap) $800,000.  Ok, the band now
    has a recoop. bill of $2 million.  Once the band (hopefully) sells
    more than 2 Million records, the producer will get payed (yes, he
    doesn't see a cent til the recoop. is payed up!), once the producer
    is payed, the band starts seeing some $$$.
    
    That's the real world kiddies.  Any of you out there who think White
    Lion is making goobs of $$$ are wrong, I bet they're still in debt!
    
    
217.4Listen and you shall hear...MARKER::BUCKLEYMickey D. > a Quayle in the Bush!Tue Aug 30 1988 13:2125
    
    RE: Mutt lange and his drums sound.
    
    Sure, Mutt has a drum sound down pact (he always uses the Fairlight
    to sequence all the drum parts and as the sound source --see my
    section in .3 on producer's and the prefect drum parts!) (Yes
    people, you are correct in assuming I meant the drummers don't play
    on Mutt Lange's productions...its a computer!!! the drummers just
    think up the parts [sometimes, pour some sugar...the drums were
    wriiten by mutt lange himself!]).
    
    I identify his productions moreso with the textures and his layering
    effects rather than a hip drum and guitar sound (not to mention
    overly wet vocals!).  Listen to Drive by the cars.  You hear the
    snare on 2 & 4, and the vocals are there, and the synths are sustaining
    rather than being rhythmic. So, must uses percussion and delay units
    to add a dense rhythmic background to the bed tracks.  is you listen
    around the obvious, you'll hear all these pops, clicks, echos, and
    stuff panned everwhere...sounds great.  Love Bites might have the
    same drum sound, but its also more similar in that the song is sparse
    in rhythm (the bed has double time drums, sparse bass synth/guitar and
    vocals...he `fills in' the rest with a 16th note repeating delay
    on the hihat, and long reverb on the bass drum, and various percussion.
    
    Buck
217.5Is it live or is it MutterexSALEM::BUTKUSThu Sep 01 1988 11:419
    
    
    Hey Buck,
      how come I don't hear those same drum sounds on the AC/DC albums
    They sound like a real drummer.
    
    					M
    					 B
    
217.6Some producers do, some don'tMARKER::BUCKLEYThe right don't see the lightThu Sep 01 1988 15:396
    Re: -1
    
    You're right. AC/DC uses live drums.  Its just tha tMutt Lange always
    uses computer drums, I didn't mean to imply they all did.  Basic
    fact still remains the tempo/drum beat has to be dead on...its done
    over til its right.
217.7clarificationHAZEL::STARRYou ain't nothin' but fine, fine, fine!Thu Sep 01 1988 16:1110

re: -1 and -2

Buck,

  I think the questio was asked because 'Mutt' Lange produced one (or
several?) AC/DC albums. I believe he did 'Back in Black'.

cat
217.8sheeeshMARKER::BUCKLEYThe right don't see the lightTue Sep 06 1988 12:419
    
    Mutt produced Highway to Hell, Back in Black, and For Those...
    They were from 1979 - 1981 timewise, before he got into Fairlight
    programming.  So, Back then he wasn't using the Fairlight for drums
    and background vocals (also see Def Lep's High n Dry lp...same scam),
    but he has been since about 1984.
    
    Sorry for any confusion
   
217.9CSC32::G_HOUSEBig Yolanda will get YOU!Tue Sep 06 1988 14:472
    Back then, he was just known for getting a killer guitar sound...