| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 2963.1 | | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Tue Aug 09 1994 14:42 | 2 |
| Kerry Livgren has more soul in his pinky than Morse does in his whole
body. Livgren is even one of God's favorites.
|
| 2963.2 | God won't even give him a record deal | DREGS::BLICKSTEIN | db | Tue Aug 09 1994 15:37 | 6 |
| Funny that you mention Kerry Livgren.
The soul went completely out of his music when he pledged his life to
god. Now he can't even get a record deal from Christian labels.
db
|
| 2963.3 | | POWDML::BUCKLEY | Venimus, Vidimus, Coastimus | Tue Aug 09 1994 16:02 | 2 |
| Sorry Mike, db is right. Kerry's music was once "the voice of God"
imho, until he "found" God, now it's shite!
|
| 2963.4 | we must be informed before we speak | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Tue Aug 09 1994 17:14 | 3 |
| And I suppose you folks have listened to everything he's recorded since
then right? Yeah that's what I thought. Neither do you know that he's
retired from the biz.
|
| 2963.7 | Ahem... | DREGS::BLICKSTEIN | db | Tue Aug 09 1994 19:00 | 36 |
| > And I suppose you folks have listened to everything he's recorded
> since then right?
"Everything"... probably not. However...
I have listened to a lot, everything I could get my hands on, and I
even read his biography cover-to-cover.
I may not have listened to "everything", but I'll tell you this:
EVERYTHING he did before he discovered god was absolutely incredible,
nay "INSPIRED" both musically and lyrically in my humble opinion.
No exceptions.
Everything I've heard since is totally lacking in the originality
and artism of his pre-conversion (circa "Monolith") work.
> We must be informed before we speak
We "must be" because clearly you are not. Read on...
> Neither do you know that he's retired from the biz.
Shows you what you know.
He has moved back to Kansas from Florida (quite awhile ago in fact) and
is building a studio (to be called Southwind Studios) and writing
material for a new album but can't get a record deal. His christian
writings didn't even appeal to christians.
Mike, if you want to salvage this, perhaps you take heart in knowing
that his search for god inspired some of the best music of our time
(have YOU read his book?) but don't kid yourself about any positive
effect conversion had on his musical output.
db
|
| 2963.8 | well, ex-fans | POWDML::BUCKLEY | Venimus, Vidimus, Coastimus | Tue Aug 09 1994 19:14 | 1 |
| Methinks he knows not he's dealing with _serious_ fans here, db!
|
| 2963.9 | Michael Sweet took 2 years to land a deal! | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Tue Aug 09 1994 19:21 | 28 |
| Well the last I heard he was living on his ranch outside of Atlanta and
having fun tooling around in his own personal studio. He came out of
hiding recently to give an "attagirl!" to Rachel Rachel's cover of
"Carry On Wayward Son." Over the past few years, he has done some
producing for some Christian artists as well.
I have mostly everything he's done pre- and post-God and don't agree
with your observations at all. Granted you've heard more of the
material than Buck has. I enjoy all of his music and can hear the
commonality throughout his writings. It's just Kerry, plain and
simple, regardless of the state of his faith. He even had half of
Kansas join him on his spiritual journey, literally and figuratively,
and I don't believe you can make any distinctions. No matter how you
sliced it, or packaged it, you heard Kansas.
I have not read his book, but we were talking about his music anyway.
My opinion says the BC songs weren't as great as the AD songs simply
because of the lyrical content and message. Your opinion is the exact
opposite and probably why you prefer the BC music.
The CCM is more of a business now than it ever was. If what you say
about him not be able to land a deal is true, it's not surprising.
Just as what recently went down in HM about Saravella, his style of
music isn't what's currently selling. There simply isn't enough fan
support for him or the Kansas style now, no matter what side of the
spiritual fence you stand.
Mike
|
| 2963.10 | speaking of _serious_ | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Tue Aug 09 1994 19:23 | 7 |
| > Methinks he knows not he's dealing with _serious_ fans here, db!
Buck, I doubt you could name 2 or more of his post-conversion albums
without someone's help. I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong, but
I'd be awfully surprised.
Mike
|
| 2963.11 | Two albums -- Prime Mover & Reconstructions | POWDML::BUCKLEY | Venimus, Vidimus, Coastimus | Wed Aug 10 1994 10:36 | 17 |
| >I have mostly everything he's done pre- and post-God and don't agree
>with your observations at all. Granted you've heard more of the
>material than Buck has.
You know Mike, one of your "traits" that really annoys me is your
goddam cocky attitude. Where do YOU get off saying that "granted
you've heard more of the material than Buck has". I would really love
to know on WHAT facts you're basing that statement?? Before db's post
in -3 (?), you touted in a previous note we BOTH didn't know what we
were talking about.
Facts: Do I own any of Kerry's AD albums? No. Do I own any of
Kerry's BC albums? A couple, not all. Have I heard Kerry's AD
material. Yes, more than you'll ever know. I Don't know why I need to
clarify this to you...possibly so you'll stop making stupid
generalizations? Personally, I doubt it will help much.
|
| 2963.13 | | DREGS::BLICKSTEIN | db | Wed Aug 10 1994 11:21 | 4 |
| > Methinks he knows not he's dealing with _serious_ fans here, db!
The fact that we did a Kansas tribute band might have been a partial
clue. ;-)
|
| 2963.14 | | DREGS::BLICKSTEIN | db | Wed Aug 10 1994 11:34 | 27 |
| > I have mostly everything he's done pre- and post-God and don't agree
> with your observations at all.
> I have not read his book, but we were talking about his music anyway.
> My opinion says the BC songs weren't as great as the AD songs simply
> because of the lyrical content and message. Your opinion is the exact
> opposite and probably why you prefer the BC music.
I don't regard my opinion to be the "exact opposite" of an opinion
that says "because he's writing about god it's good".
My opinion takes into account artistic factors, not just the subject
matter/content.
And I definitely don't prefer the BC stuff because it's not about
god. If I had a problem with music that was about god why would
I be such a fan of gospel singing? And the early Kansas stuff is
very "religious" in content if not "Christian".
The difference is not "opposite views", it's that I'm objective about
it and you're not. ;-)
db
p.s. BTW, BC Livgren vs AC Livgren is NOT Kansas vs AD. He did
two (more like three) Kansas albums as a Christian that were
critically panned.
|
| 2963.15 | I have 'Closer...', 'Sunday's Child', and lots on tape too | DREGS::BLICKSTEIN | db | Wed Aug 10 1994 11:42 | 5 |
| BTW, if MY opinion was "colored by the lyrical content", perhaps
you can explain how it is that I've come to own and appreciate several
Phil Keaggy albums IN ADDITION TO the instrumental ones????
db
|
| 2963.16 | maybe we should have a Kerry Livgren topic | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Wed Aug 10 1994 14:30 | 63 |
| > You know Mike, one of your "traits" that really annoys me is your
> goddam cocky attitude. Where do YOU get off saying that "granted
> you've heard more of the material than Buck has". I would really love
> to know on WHAT facts you're basing that statement?? Before db's post
Well by posting .229, I was trying not to have it come off that way.
My apologies, but it just a gut feeling based on our noting over the
years. You never once have come across as having any interest in any
of Livgren's work.
Re: db in .233
> I don't regard my opinion to be the "exact opposite" of an opinion
> that says "because he's writing about god it's good".
That's not exactly what I was trying to convey, but it's tough to knock
inspired work. ;-)
> My opinion takes into account artistic factors, not just the subject
> matter/content.
Okay then, what exactly about his music don't you like?
> And I definitely don't prefer the BC stuff because it's not about
> god. If I had a problem with music that was about god why would
> I be such a fan of gospel singing?
the style? You can appreciate many styles without really hearing the
lyrical content.
>And the early Kansas stuff is very "religious" in content if not
>"Christian".
religious <> Christian
> The difference is not "opposite views", it's that I'm objective about
> it and you're not. ;-)
db, like I said, pinpoint some examples for me on what's bad about
it.
> p.s. BTW, BC Livgren vs AC Livgren is NOT Kansas vs AD. He did
> two (more like three) Kansas albums as a Christian that were
> critically panned.
Yeah I have "Vinyl Confessions" and the lyrical content gives away his
decision for Christ. John Elefante was an obvious contributor to that
as well.
Re: db again in .234
> -< I have 'Closer...', 'Sunday's Child', and lots on tape too >-
> BTW, if MY opinion was "colored by the lyrical content", perhaps
> you can explain how it is that I've come to own and appreciate several
> Phil Keaggy albums IN ADDITION TO the instrumental ones????
db, as much as I love Keaggy's work, his lyrics are *typically* (i.e.,
as in not always) what we call "watered-down gospel." For the
non-believer, they're fairly non-offensive. His burden lies in the
areas of starving children and family relationships, and on occasion,
God's saving grace.
Mike
|
| 2963.17 | db, critique this one | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Wed Aug 10 1994 14:35 | 2 |
| Especially the "Seeds of Change" solo album. It's just like listening
to Kansas to me.
|
| 2963.18 | | GOES11::HOUSE | How could I have been so blind? | Wed Aug 10 1994 15:21 | 4 |
| > When one of our fearless mods has the spare time, please move the
> Livgren thread from 920.* to here.
Fear not...
|
| 2963.19 | Lord knows, everyone thinks I'm just a metalhead! | POWDML::BUCKLEY | Venimus, Vidimus, Coastimus | Wed Aug 10 1994 16:29 | 22 |
| >> you've heard more of the material than Buck has". I would really love
>> to know on WHAT facts you're basing that statement?? Before db's post
>Well by posting .229, I was trying not to have it come off that way.
>My apologies, but it just a gut feeling based on our noting over the
>years. You never once have come across as having any interest in any
>of Livgren's work.
I just wanted to note that that is understandable. I have many, many
influences that played important roles in my personal musical
development, and Kansas/Livgren is DEFINITELY one of them (even into my
Berklee years!).
I mean, until I started playing with db in Metropolis, he had no idea
either. It funny, because every now and then he'll make mention of
some _obscure_ artist, and I'll go off on how I have all their albums
and am a big fan -- we'll both freak out for a short time that we are
so into [them] and no one else is, etc. The Good Rats and Dolly Parton
are good examples of this chemistry.
No biggie...
Buck, the man with the mystery musical interests
|
| 2963.20 | I just like her for her boobs... really... | DREGS::BLICKSTEIN | db | Wed Aug 10 1994 16:39 | 5 |
| > The Good Rats and Dolly Parton are good examples of this chemistry.
Buck... you promised not to tell! ;-)
db
|
| 2963.21 | A serious note (and then back to the usual crap) | DREGS::BLICKSTEIN | db | Wed Aug 10 1994 16:54 | 40 |
| SET MODE/NO_GIVING_MIKE_SHIT_ABOUT_MORSE_VS_SATRIANI
What I don't like about his later works is, ironically, that while it
my be "inspired" by god, it is not "inspired" artistically.
The lyrics/topics are the same things that lots of other people do, and
the music just doesn't "push" any boundaries the way that the early
stuff he did does.
It may have nothing to do with his conversion - as we well know, lots
of writers "burn out".
Mike, having spent a lot of time thinking about what things about music
appeal to me, I think the only general statement I can make is that
it has to "push" some boundary or go into some unexplored territory.
This refers to many things: musical form, lyrical topic, technical
level, etc.
I held Livgren in the HIGHEST regard because he was able to do that
in almost ALL categories of music (lyrics, writing, form, technical
skill). He excelled as ALL of those. He was almost enigmatic in
that regard.
"The Wall" is an overall masterpiece.
db
p.s. Although I like Satch, one of the things that just permanently
puts him well below Morse is that most of his stuff is 4/4 BPM=120
Boogie/shuffles. Not much composition really, just jamming over
some (admittedly) VERY happenin' grooves.
I love to listen to it, but sorry... on the achievement/respect scale, it's
hard for me to take any comparison to real compositions such as Morse
(or Livgren for that matter) very seriously.
To each his own though.
SET MODE/GIVING_MIKE_SHIT_ABOUT_MORSE_VS_SATRIANI
|
| 2963.22 | Hey db... | POWDML::BUCKLEY | Venimus, Vidimus, Coastimus | Wed Aug 10 1994 17:14 | 26 |
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|
| 2963.23 | pushing the boundaries | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Wed Aug 10 1994 17:17 | 6 |
| I think there are some very good compositions on "Seeds of Change" as
well as on some of the AD albums. However, with AD he wasn't the only
songwriter.
"Mask of the Great Deceiver," including Dio's performance is
outstanding.
|
| 2963.24 | Benny Hill jokes aplenty | GIDDAY::KNIGHTP | There's room for you inside | Wed Aug 10 1994 20:56 | 7 |
| Dolly Parton ?????????????????????????
What heavy metal death thrash punk rock band does he play
guitar in.....8^).
P.K.
|
| 2963.25 | is this the name of her band? | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Wed Aug 10 1994 21:24 | 1 |
| > -< I just like her for her boobs... really... >-
|
| 2963.26 | | GOES11::HOUSE | How could I have been so blind? | Thu Aug 11 1994 14:41 | 3 |
| > -< I just like her for her boobs... really... >-
She has lots of televisions?
|
| 2963.27 | she probably needs at least 2 to fit on screen | FRETZ::HEISER | Maranatha! | Thu Aug 11 1994 14:47 | 1 |
| > She has lots of televisions?
|
| 2963.28 | New music from Kerry | PHXSS1::HEISER | maranatha! | Mon Oct 28 1996 20:16 | 132
|