Conference napalm::guitar

As long as you know how a chord is constructed, you'll develop your "ear" by
trial and error before you can "hear" what chords go with the melody notes.

In your example, say you wanted to start Auld Lang Syne on a C. Work out the
melody in that key, then for each note (each note, that is, where you "hear" a
chord change, which will not be every one) try the different chords in which a
that note might appear- for a C, that would be C major, F major, A minor...

What you'll find is that the *vast* majority of tunes utilize a standard set of
chords within their specific key. In order to be independent of a specific key,
most players refer to chord progressions in terms of the Roman numerals which
identify which "step" of the scale the chord is based on. So, in C, I denotes
C major, IV denotes F major, VIm denotes A minor, and so on. In these terms, the
typical "3-chord wonder" piece uses I (tonic), IV (subdominant), and
V (dominant). The parenthetical names go way back in music theory, and are pretty
indicative of the "major" role (pun intended) these chords play in a lot of
music.

Once you get an "ear" for chord changes, you'll find that you can play a lot of
"old standards" without much thought. If you persist, you'll start to recognize
less-typical-but-still-common chord changes such as I - III or I - VIm. Go even
further and you might be able to *think* about jazz... <g>

BTW- past experience would indicate that you're about to witness a veritable
explosion of replies. Hope you're ready for the onslaught...

Bob

    
    Thanks for the reply but you misunderstand what I'm driving at. I think
    what you are describing answers the question about how do you work out
    chord *accompaniements* to melodies.
    
    What I'm getting at is how you play the entire melody line using full
    chords. That is every note. Perhaps a simpler view would be in the key
    of C we commonly expect to use C,F,G,Em,Dm & Am. The notes in the scale
    are c,d,e,f,g,a,b,c. So if you wanted to play this scale in chords
    which chords would you use? 
    
    Richard

    
    	C	
    	Dm
    	Em
    	Fmaj7
    	G7
    	Am
    	Bdim7
    
    	This is Do Re Mi... in chords
    
    	Tom
    

    Re: last two
    
    Yeah, OR
    
    C
    G
    C
    F
    G
    C
    G
    C
    
    The point being that selection of *which* (out of many) chord you use
    is up to you (though each song does have "correct" chords). Tom picked
    all the chords which result from the first inversion (root of the chord
    is the lowest note), I picked ones from the major chords for I, IV, and
    V using C as the root. If you extend the choices to include 7th chords,
    you could put G7 in place of F as well.
    
    Bob

    
    Re .3
    
    Ah, this is what I was after. I have, by trial and error, found a
    similar selection of chords give you, as you say, do re mi in chords.
    What I have been unable to reconcile is the theory behind it. For
    instance how on earth does a Bdim7 crop up in the key of C? It may
    sound right but why?
    
    Richard

    
    	Well, it's probably a Bm7b5 instead of the Bdim7.  The diff
    	between the 2 is A vs Ab.
    
    	Bm7b5	B  D  F  A
    	Bdim7	B  D  F  Ab
    
    	Tom
    

    Re: .5
    
    The theory is this:
    
    Take the scale
    
    C D E F G A B
    
    Take the same scale a third up
    
    E F G A B C D
    
    And a third up again
    
    G A B C D E F
    
    Now stack all three
     
    C D E F G A B
    E F G A B C D
    G A B C D E F
    
    There are the triads within the key of C major.  The 7th chord in a 
    major key is always diminished, the others are either major (1, 4, 5) or
    minor (2, 3, 6).
    
    Now if you like, you can further create four-note chords by adding in
    7ths and other extensions.
    
    							Brian

>    There are the triads within the key of C major.  The 7th chord in a 
>    major key is always diminished, the others are either major (1, 4, 5) or
>    minor (2, 3, 6).
    
    The 7th *triad* in a major key is diminished!  The actual CHORD comes
    out to be a Min7b5 (some people call that half-diminished).
    
    Greg

    Re: .8
    
    Huh?  Where I grew up, a triad *is* a chord.  A min7b5 is *not* a
    triad, it's a *four-note* chord. Get with the program here!  8^)  
    
    Most texts on basic harmony start with triadic harmony. If you get into
    SATB harmony, usually it's a triad with the root double in the bass.
    Now if you wanna talk *jazz* harmony, almost all of that is based on
    7th chords as the basic building block rather than triads.  
    
    BTW, bassists can and do play chords, I use 'em all the time. And my
    wife can beat up your wife, etc.  8^)
    
    
    							Brian

>    Huh?  Where I grew up, a triad *is* a chord.  A min7b5 is *not* a
>    triad, it's a *four-note* chord. Get with the program here!  8^)  
    
    Right, but what's commonly called a diminished chord contains four
    notes, it's not a triad.  The problem with calling the 7th chord in a
    diatonic major key a "diminished chord" is that a full diminished chord
    doesn't fit in the key ('cause it needs a dim7 interval instead of a
    min7 interval).  It has to be a Min7b5, which contains the diminished
    triad, but not the diminished 7th interval.
    
    Greg

    Re: .10
    
    Huh?
    
    A triad with two minor second intervals is a diminished chord by
    *definition*.  That's "common" enough for me...8^)  8^)  Go read Piston
    and come back with a full report...  
    
    I agree with the distinction betwen "full" and "half" diminished 7th
    chords.
    
    							Brian

re: .9

>    Most texts on basic harmony start with triadic harmony. If you get into
>    SATB harmony, usually it's a triad with the root double in the bass.

Might as well start a rathole :-) ...

Actually, "traditional" SATB harmony, while "often" having the root doubled
in the bass, certainly doesn't "usually".  In fact, the doubled note is
neither always the root nor always in the bass.  It's considered very bad
to double the third, though.  It's also considered bad to have two notes
a fifth or octave apart move in parallel.  Most modern pop harmony would
fail that last restriction, of course (can you say CSNY?).

-Hal

    That's the way I always heard it, I'm not theory pro...

    Sorry, Brian, I've gotta side with Greg here. Though, of course, you're
    both right (do you think I should be in politics? :^)
    
    You're right that if you stack two minor thirds, the result is
    diminished, and so a diminished chord, but the problem is that when 
    jazzers refer to <mumble> diminished, they invariably mean the extended
    chord (I b3 b5 bb7), which confused the HELL out of me when I was first
    learning all this stuff...
    
    I think I can sum this whole string up by saying that you have to be
    careful when you use the word "diminished", cos some %^&* is gonna
    have a different definition to yours... :^)
    
    Nick

>    Sorry, Brian, I've gotta side with Greg here. Though, of course, you're
>    both right (do you think I should be in politics? :^)
    
Well, I've gotta side with Brian, though Greg is right too.  8*)   Most people
will play a dim7 if you ask for a dim.

Bob

    Maybe I'm just dim.
    
    gh

>    Maybe I'm just dim.
    
    You did it again, man - every time I read this file I end up laughing
    my butt off.
    
    Dave
    
    P.S.  I think you guys are really talking about that half-demented chord.

Don't know if this not is still active, but here's my
2-bits worth.

A couple years ago, a jazz player who had done nothing
but play guitar for 27 years talked to me for ten
minutes and changed all of my thinking about the
instrument. He lived and breathed (and maybe even a
couple other bodily functions) the guitar. As he put it,
he had never had a real job in his entire life because
all he did was play. His name is Mark Barasch, and I
think he comes from NYC.

Anyway, what he told me was this: If you play a series
of chords the ear will perceive the highest note on each
chord as being the melody, all other things being equal.
So all you have to do is take the chords of a song and
invert them as necessary to put the melody on the
highest notes. With a little practice it becomes quite
natural to do this with any song you hear. I do it all
the time with old jazz standards that I play. 

Note that I said (or, rather, Mark Barasch said) all
things being equal the ear will perceive the highest
notes as the melody. You can change that by doubling
one of the lower notes or playing it louder to put more
emphasis on it. Sometimes this works for me, but using
the highest note for the melody works much better.

Try this out and amaze your friends.

    
    Well, I'm still here and what you say sounds interesting. I'll give it
    a go as they say.
    
    Richard