Conference napalm::guitar

    Look at (former) monster shredders like Yngwie, Ronnie Le Tekro, 
    Paul Gilbert, Ritchie Kotzen...they ALL went blues!!
    
    Nuff said.

    I certainly have not mastered the fast stuff, nor have I ever really
    tried.  When I see Buck and Kevin technically cram all those notes into
    one measure, I'm wowed as when I hear EJ (et al) do the same.  It's
    quite the accomplishement.  What also amazes me is how difficult it is
    to play the tasty/slow blues lix and make 'em 'say' something.  SRV's
    "The Sky is Crying" is an example for me.  If I could master those
    crying/swelling bends, I'd quit my day job!
    
    Whether or not the speed stuff is dead....who knows?  Fat neckties will
    probably come back again...maybe even bell bottoms (god forbid)
    
    Dawg 

    Ever hear Marty Friedman play the blues?  *HE* Shreds (blues 
    or not!)  
    
    

    Well, can't say I'll miss the shredders.  I think they have played
    themsleves into a corner.  It's become music for other musicians.
    
    As far as this blues infatuation, it's really blues-rock IMHO.  Which
    is OK and a positive step back towards some music with some emotional
    resonance.
    
    The funny part to me is how blues keeps coming back every few years
    once someone gets the big media hype (Butterfield in 66, Geils in 72,
    Thorogood in 77, T-Birds in 83, etc.).  
    
    I always felt that a good rock player should have a command of some
    blues forms (at least some Chuck Berry!)...so now we have a generation
    of players with no blues roots, going back and trying to soak it up. 
    Which is cool.  
    
    I know that the cats who have been sticking to the blues all these
    years are having the last laugh.
    
    							Brian

> Bob Dylan is quoted as saying "the 80's will
>    be remembered as a time of .. masturbation". 
 
    In a lot of ways, I think he's right.
       
>   So, is it true? Are all those diddly-diddly finger-tapping solos
>    falling by the wayside in favor of a few well-placed blues notes
>    from a guitar strung with 11's? Are the solos serving the SONG
>    instead od the other way around? Have at it!
    
    That's what I see happening.  There seems to be a real trend away from
    the big technical thing in music.
    
    re: Brian
    
>     It's become music for other musicians.
    
    Yes, I completely agree.  Interestingly enough, many of the people
    interviewed said basically the same thing.
    
    Personally, I find a lot of straight traditional blues, even when
    really well done, to be kind of boring.  I'd rather hear something with
    more energy to it.
    
    Greg

re: .5

>    Personally, I find a lot of straight traditional blues, even when
>    really well done, to be kind of boring.  I'd rather hear something with
>    more energy to it.
    
Greg:

As someone who used to feel the same way, I must comment.  What most rock
players do when someone says "let's jam some blues" is probably what you
think of as "straight traditional blues".  Since getting involved about a
year and a half ago with a serious blues head, I've discovered that there's
a hell of a lot more to blues than that.  If you can't find blues with
plenty of energy to it, then you're not looking in the right places.

-Hal

   The real question is - do Buck and Kev have hair on their palms???  :-)

    
    Isn't it kinda hard to believe that a school so into 
    improvisation, like Berklee, could ever have _not_
    been fundamentally into teaching the blues?  And
    I guess I'm one of those people who thinks you can
    teach or develop anything, in case someone was
    gonna say "you can't teach that!".  I suppose the school was
    just trying to realistically prepare students for jobs in 
    the current business.  That's probably a good idea.  
    
    But my feeling (for what its worth!) is, with the exception of some western 
    folk music, most things that make me tap my foot are out of the blues.  
    
    So I'm wondering how far away this "shred" stuff was away from it. 
    Of course, someone playing a paganini transcription on an electric
    guitar is pretty far away, but why is there an electric guitar 
    anyways?  Its 'cause there was blues to be played.  And if
    its paganini over a rock beat, where's that time from? 
    
    Hopefully the shredders are deciding there's something to be 
    had from getting into the roots of contemporary  pop/guitar music, 
    just as classical  players get into music history.  They may even
    play the blues and live to shred again.
    
    Dave           
     
                                                                
    

    re: Hal
    
    No offense intended, dude, but I've listened to a lot of blues.  I
    generally avoid the club bands that play it 'cause they're almost
    always stale.  I listen to the guys like Muddy Waters, BB King, Albert
    King, John Lee Hooker, Howlin Wolf...  That's the "good blues". 
    But...even listening to those guys, I find myself getting bored after
    awhile.  I like it, but in small doses.
    
    What I mean by more energy is "hyper".  See, I listen to a lot of punk
    and punk-based rock these days.  If it's under 150bpm it's questionable
    whether it'll hold my attention very long (yes, I suffer that short
    attention span problem, probably as a result of getting old).  I'm more
    into listening to someone like Henry Rollins or Rage Against The
    Machine then Robert Johnson these days.  I'm not saying they're bad,
    just not what I'm into.  But I'm not getting rid of the old blues tapes
    yet...
    
    Hey, it's all music, and I generally like it.
    
    Greg
                                                 

    Re: .9
    
    Blues is basically a music to be experienced live.  That's not to say
    that all blues records suck, but unlike rock acts where concerts are
    often pale imitations of the recordings, blues acts tend to be much
    more exciting live (maybe it's all the booze...agagagagaga).  
    
    There's a blues variant from Louisiana called zydeco which adds an
    accordion to the band, and I've seen zydeco acts play one-chord stomps
    for fifteen minutes to huge crowds where people were practically having
    sex on the dance floor, etc.  Unbelievable, it finally dawned on me
    that this is why parents warn kids about rock and roll.  You know, it's
    the beat, the beat, the beat.  And I have *never* heard a zydeco
    recording that came close to experiencing it live.
    
    							Brian

    Re: .10
    
    >Blues is basically a music to be experienced live.  That's not to say
    >that all blues records suck, but unlike rock acts where concerts are
    >often pale imitations of the recordings, blues acts tend to be much
    >more exciting live (maybe it's all the booze...agagagagaga).  

    That said, I think there's scope for a lot of variation in the blues genre,
    something that a lot of people don't realise. 

    I'm more passionate about blues/R&B than any other type of music, but
    even I  find a 70 minute John Lee Hooker CD can get a little monotous,
    largely because of the "sameness" of the compositions. Then again, I'd say 
    the same about Gram Parsons, Van Morrison and John Fogerty, to name but 
    three.
    
    Try mixing together Robert Cray, Jimmy Witherspoon, Taj Mahal, Hound Dog 
    Taylor, Martha & the Vandellas, Albert King, Bo Diddley, Etta James and 
    Champion Jack Dupree...and I can guarantee that the boredom factor will 
    rapidly diminish! And they're all variations on the blues theme.

    Dom    

    Since we're talking about the blooz here...
    
    ...check out the new Larry McCray album "Delta Hurricane". It's one
    of the best albums I've bought in a long while...
    
    Nick

    Lot of good points here......
    
    I have seen some really boring blues bands with no dynamics, every song
    sounds the same, etc....
    
    However, the really talented blues players I've seen have the ability
    to keep me interested all night with their dynamics and energy.  One
    nit tho, it's alot better live than it is from the studio.  The
    recorded sound is higher in quality, but the fever of the moment can
    only be captured live.  I actually prefer live recordings to the studio
    stuff.....I gues I like my blues RAW!
    
    dawg

    Speaking of blues and R&B - There used to be a local (for you guys)
    band that I used to go see all the time called Tornado Alley - They
    still around?
    
    I ask, cuz they used to KICK A$$  at Timothy's in Framingham, and the
    Cove in Worcester.  Full horn section, smokin' bass player, guitarist.
    Kind of like Glen Miller meets Maynard Ferguson on steroids...
    
    Also, I'm of the opinion that metal is (a LOT of the times) just
    powered up/sped up blues.  Thats why I mentioned Friedman, cuz he
    throws a lot of blues based riffs into MegaDeths stuff...And naturally
    Mustaine is a box player from hell...
    
    jc

"The Horns From Tornado Alley" carried as much weight around Worcester as
"The JB Horns" carry in the rest  of the world. I was under the impression
that TA had blown up since "The Horns..." were playing fairly regularly with
Danimal, then Mike Life, and with (my favorite Worcester band that I can't
remember the name of...big r&b band) at the same time. I jammed with the sax 
player once...he cooked!

They always got calls to jam with visiting bands like Aerosmith (late nights
after giggin') when in town. I'm curious if TA is still around too. I know 
"The Horns..." were working something like 3 bands plus they taught 
individually, too.

    
    
    It could be that shredding is only reacting to the market place. The
    non-shredding Seattle bands are the ones getting so much airplay?
    
    On the metal front it looks like the shredders are going strong,
    though. I'm probably one of the few 36 year old guys who watches the
    Head Bangers Ball on MTV.  I could care less about most of the music,
    but I appreciate lots of the guitar playing.   But even in metal bands
    like Alice in Chains are doing well with a very retro guitar style.
    
    
    BTW, I don't in *any way* consider myself a shredder.  I couldn't, and
    wouldn't want to, compete in the Saturday morning guitar wars.  I'm
    more from the Johnny Winter school-of-reckless-abandon.  8-)
    
    
    Kevin
    
    

    Shred will never die for people who really love it (like me).
    Shred was never real popular as far as mainstream music goes.
    It takes a musician to apreciate the technical ability of the shredder
    so to a non-musician its just a lot of noise.  I'm sure there are a lot
    of guitar players that think its just senseless noise too. There are
    those that say it has no emotion, but I hear/feel tons of emotion, its
    just faster!! Emotion is sparked different ways to different people.  
    I'm sure that shred, like any type of music will never die as long as there
    are still people that like it.  As far as the blues go, like Greg
    mentioned, I can only take it in small doses, after about 20 minutes
    its all the same (just like to the people with low shred tollerance).
    The older blues players really put me to sleep!!  Oh well, I guess
    I've rambled long enough ;^)
    
    
      

    I think this "Shred is Dead" thing is an expression of the wishes of
    the editors of GP magazine.  I found their "evidence" uncompelling.
    While there may be evidence of it in GP, there certainly ain't not
    at all in GFTPM and GW.
    
    As I see it, those guys that Buck mentioned in .1 didn't "go blues".
    They've just taken some time out to do blues things - it seems more
    like a trendy thing "within" shred rather than a replacement for it.
    
    About the most credence I can lend to that article is that in popular
    radio we may see less "crossover" from the shred camp.  That is,
    I could believe that it might be awhile before we see tunes like
    "Surfing with the Alien" and "Cliffs of Dover" getting wide-spread
    airplay but I don't sense at all that shred is dead in metal, nor
    progressives, nor any of it's "home" camps.
    
    I can't say I'm a fan of "shred" per se.  The vast majority of "Varney
    guys" leave me totally cold.   However, now and then, a guy comes
    along who "has it all" in that they write things that stand up
    MUSICALLY (as opposed to technical accomplishments) and then apply
    incredible musicianship to it.   
    
    I'm thinking of guys like Steve Morse, Joe Satriani, Eric Johnson and
    (most recently) Shawn Lane.  Jury's still out on Steve Vai for me.
    Actually I think he's VERY musical but he may play a bit too "out" for
    me to appreciate yet.
    
    FWIW, I never counted Yngwie in this elite catagory.  Perhaps he did
    create the shred thing because to these ears a lot of non-musical
    shred sounds like him.  But I don't know whether he deserves "credit"
    or "blame".
    
    I'll always prefer guys like Morse and Satch.   Since we're drawing
    comparisons I think these guys have the advantage of both writing
    good music (which there ARE a lot of people doing) but their music
    will ALWAYS be more interesting because they're writing isn't (as)
    constrained by their abilities on the instrument.
    
    As much as I like the great popular song-writers of this time, they
    simply are NOT pushing the envelope of MUSIC (not talking "technique").
    
    See, that is what attracts the attention of my ear: music that
    challenges the ear.
    
    	db

    Who the hell is Morse, db??
    
    :-)
    

    re .18 and GP staff wishing Shred was Dead ... I agree. Notice in
    the article how they introduced Yngwie as "Yngwie Malmsteen,
    currently without an American record deal".

    I think "shred" has been with us much longer than we're led to believe.
    First of all, the style predates the label by several decades.
    Secondly, it's really a moving target. What was considered "shred" or
    "heavy metal" or "hard rock" 10 or 20 years ago would NOT be today.
    
    Having said that, I would also suggest that "shred" is here to stay,
    though it may go through cycles of evolution under the same or any
    different name (label).
    
    One concept that occurred to me while listening to Malmsteen is the
    idea of "emotion per SECOND" versus "emotion per NOTE". When the speed
    is cranked up, the listener may have to process the notes as *groups*
    or *waves* to decipher the artist's intended feeling or emotion. Lousy
    blues bands sound just as boring as lousy rock, metal, or country
    bands. Good ones of any genre can be exciting. 
    
    If your enjoyment of the live act is markedly different from your
    enjoyment of the recording (on real good equipment) then I'd suggest
    it's due to factors like the visual component, or the lack of
    interruptions, or the booze rather than the type of music. Nowadays we
    have the technology to capture the entire audio component of a
    performance. The fact that it is rarely or inappropriately used for
    this purpose, coupled with the prevalence of "sub-optimal" playback
    systems perpetuates the fallacy of the superiority of live
    performances. It's true that *performers* will play differently live
    versus studio, & the overall visual/aural/emotional experience of
    the live audience will differ from that of listening to a recording,
    but that does *not* mean that the "style" of *music* (blues, punk) has
    anything to do with it. Some "musical" styles are so heavily
    intertwined with audience response/participation or visual impact (Slam
    dancing at the Rat while Human Sexual Response "improvises" their way
    through their latest creation probably wouldn't be the same with Garth
    Brooks.) that they may not be effective in other settings, but I don't
    put these performance related effects in the category of *music*,
    rather *entertainment*.
    
    Paul
            

>    re .18 and GP staff wishing Shred was Dead ... I agree. Notice in
>    the article how they introduced Yngwie as "Yngwie Malmsteen,
>    currently without an American record deal".
    
    That may be nothing more than a good example of them putting a slant
    things in the way they'd like to see them.
    
    My memory is vague here, but I believe that Yngwie DROPPED the label
    due to differences with them, rather than them dropping him, and his
    lack of a label is not reflective of any thing more than that he is
    shopping around for a good deal.  Not that a famous shredder can't
    get a deal.
    
    Yngwie is a jerk - that's widely known.  He probably just can't find
    a record company guy willing to kiss his ass (which he probably feels
    he deserves).
    
    	db

    Paul touched on something that is a pet peeve of mine:
    
    This notion that "speed" and "emotion" are somehow mutually exclusive.
    
    That is, that you play fast at the expense of emotion.
    
    That's bull-puckey.
    
    "Speed" conveys energy and excitement.  Those are emotions.   People
    who say these stupid things about speed vs. emotion (typically) have
    unfortunate limited concepts of how to convey emotion. 
    
    Guys who have speed have one color on their musical palette that guys
    who can't play fast don't have.
    
    	db

    db....Yngwie was DROPPED

re: .23

>    Paul touched on something that is a pet peeve of mine:
>    
>    This notion that "speed" and "emotion" are somehow mutually exclusive.
>    
>    That is, that you play fast at the expense of emotion.
>    
>    That's bull-puckey.
>    
>    "Speed" conveys energy and excitement.  Those are emotions.   People
>    who say these stupid things about speed vs. emotion (typically) have
>    unfortunate limited concepts of how to convey emotion. 
>    
>    Guys who have speed have one color on their musical palette that guys
>    who can't play fast don't have.
    
db:

While I agree with you, I suspect that speed gets a bad name because
there's so many (I didn't say all) speed players with just the one color
on their palette.

-Hal

>While I agree with you, I suspect that speed gets a bad name because
>there's so many (I didn't say all) speed players with just the one color
>on their palette.

    I agree with you.  And unfortunately it causes a lot of people to
    automatically dismiss anything done by a person labelled as a shredder.
    
    	db

    Yngwie was DROPPED.
    Yngwie JUMPED.
    Yngwie was PUSHED.
    Yngwie FELL.
    Yngwie was DROPPED.
    Yngwie JUMPED.
    Yngwie was PUSHED.
    Yngwie FELL.
    ;-) ;-)
    I still don't think he *started* shread. First off, if you listen to
    what he's playing, you can hear his *classical* roots. Then what about
    all those guys like John McGlaughlin, Steve Howe, Alvin Lee, etc. that
    played about 4 times faster than the closest second ? Listen to "Nutty"
    by the Ventures (the *old* Bruins theme on channel 38) compared to what
    was on the radio back when they recorded it (~1963) & tell me that
    wasn't "shred".
    
    RE Coop: Steve Morse played for (Dixie) Dregs. (db's favorite band)
    (or was that a joke ?)
    
    Paul

    re: Brian (way back)
    
    I almost always enjoy *any* type of music better when watching it being
    played live.  
    
    re: Guitar Player article
    
    Maybe you guys read it differently then I did, but I didn't ever see
    where they came to the conclusion that "shred was dead", they were just
    exploring that possibility, perhaps because a lot of people (myself
    included) have been feeling that way lately.  What I thought their
    conclusion was was "there will always be a nitch market for it, it'll
    never completely die".
    
    Greg
                          

    re the blues/emotion/shred thing
    
    	A few years ago I went to one of those all star concerts, not
    something I would normally do, but I wanted to see some of the
    performers for the influence they had on music.
    
    	The line up was Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis, Lesley Gore
    Bo Diddley and Col Joye (Australia's answer to 50's rock and roll)
    and the Everley Brothers.
    
    	My wife has no interest in any of these bands/music except the
    Everley brothers and she new Great Balls of fire Johnny B Goode etc
    but she had never even heard of Bo Diddley.
    
    	When Bo Diddley came on they started playing something real upbeat
    and cool (maybe the song that goes "Bo Diddly" and she was really
    caught up in it, She by far enjoyed the songs Bo Diddly played over
    the other acts even though she had not heard any of material.
    	He played with an enormous amount of energy and didn't do anything
    near shredding, but one over at least one more fan that night, also
    the crowd (about 12,000) really went nuts over it too.
    
    	I too like blues but cannot really listen to it for long periods
    of time.  I have never even heard Ywngie(sp) play, but I guess he might
    be a bit like Van Halen in the notes per second dept.  I think what
    I don't like the most is when players try to play too fast for their
    ability, eg: Guitar shops on a Saturday morning.
    
    P.K.

re: .30
    
    >What a great rathole this has turned out to be!  I just love it when a 
    >topic stirs up controversy...(perhaps because of the emotion and 
    >excitement!)
    
    Well, I don't really think there's any ratholing going on. 0 dealt with
    a percepted shift in guitar-playing vogue from shredding (back) to
    blues. So it was fairly predictable (and logical) that the issue of
    speed vs. emotion would then be tackled. Even the question of Yngwie
    Malmsteen being given the boot (or not) by his record company is, IMO,
    perfectly in harmony with the base note.
    
    While I have nothing against speed, I fully agree with whoever said
    that speed represents the *only* color in the pallette of some
    shredders. For me, it's all a question of taste (on the part of the
    artist). If someone told me that Jimi Hendrix was going to be playing at a 
    venue near me tomorrow evening, but that he *wouldn't* be taking any 
    solos, I'd still be first in the queue to see him because I think the
    man made some great *music* (to illustrate the point, my favorite
    Hendrix number is "Crosstown Traffic" - hardly a guitar showcase).
    
    Small wonder then, that my favorite guitarists include Eric Clapton,
    Perter Green, Robert Cray and Paul Kossof. Rarely do (did) they play
    a note out of place and it's all oriented towards complementing the
    music in general. Their policy seems to be: if a particular song can't be
    improved with the addition of a guitar solo, then it doesn't get one -
    simple as that! Then again, I suppose shredders wouldn't be shredders if
    they followed this line of reasoning...
    
    So thumbs up for speed...if it's used to put across a musical idea. But
    if that musical idea is just "Look how fast I am!" then I've no more
    time for the author than I have for a guitarist whose solos consisted
    exclusively of yanking the whammy all over the show!
    
    PROVOCATION WARNING
    
    One of my other favorites is Neil Young. Listen to the solo on
    "Dangerbird": IMO, it really evokes the image of a bird gliding through the
    air. "Like A Hurricane", feedback et al, really *sounds* like a
    hurricane. 
    
    I shall now put on my steel helmet and wait for the inevitable flak.
    
    Dom  
    
    P.S. Maybe I'm going mad, but I've got the July edition of Guitar
    Player (I'm not a regular subscriber) and I can't see any sign of the
    article in question. I bought this edition because it's dedicated to
    the Telecaster (reviews of 32 different Telecasters, transcriptions of
    pieces by Albert Collins, Roy Buchanan and Danny Gatton, interviews
    with the same, etc.)
    
    
    
    

    If it's rat holes you like, step right this way.
    
    What's the correct spelling of "shred" ?
    	A. shread
    	B. shred
    	C. shredd
    	D. schred
    	E. All of above
    	F. None of above
    
    Interesting about Beck. Back when Van Halen was *the* band, someone I
    know was claiming that Eddie Van Halen was "the best" guitar player in
    the world. (Whatever that means.) I felt that as good as he was,
    calling someone the *best* is a risky proposition, so I said that he
    was *not* the best. (not knowing how I was going to back that statement
    up) When the VH fan asked "OK, who's better ?" I almost instantly said
    Jeff Beck, & then went on to explain why. 
    
    They're both great, I just think people tend to get insane over this stuff.
    
    Paul

	Interesting that one can just decide all of a sudden that
	they're "blues" players by simply studying the genre & forms.

	Kind of reminds me of a Martin Mull song where he's sings about
	a relative who's doing pretty well and has a more middle class
	blues, he's a real estate agent.  One of his blues tunes has 
	words as follows:

	I feel so bad .... Lord have mercy ..... sh*t ....

        I woke up this afternoon
	I saw both cars were gone 

	I felt so low down deep inside
	I threw my drink across the lawn 

	Lv	

    I think the difinition of Shred is always changing.  Personally I think
    the first true shredder was Al Dimeola.  When I used to listen to his
    first few solo albums I thought that he was the fastest thing going and
    no one could ever ever ever possibly play faster.  Then comes Yngwie,
    Tony Mcalpine, Gregg Howe just to name a few.  After listening to
    these guys for a while and then going back and listening to Dimeola,
    old Al D  sounds like a turtle on Qualudes.  Every generation has its
    pioneer shredder and every new generation is faster than the last.
    I know alot of people in here hate Yngwie, but you have to admit that
    he is the pioneer of the latest generation of shredders and I have to
    disagree with anyone that says he just blindly fly's through a million
    notes with no emotion. A lot  his compositions are nothing short of 
    genius and very emotional.
    
    
    RE: A few back about Niel Youngs Danger Bird solo.  
        As huge a fan I am of shred, I still consider the Danger Bird solo
        one of my all time favorites.  Shred factor 0, feel factor 10.
     

    Another Martin Mull viewpoint, this time on solos:
    
    Sounds pretty good, huh?
    It should, I've been playing this guitar for fourteen years
    
    When they say blue I play doleful
    When they say black I play soulful
    When they say solo I can't wait until I'm through
    
    I can see you're getting all hot and runny
    As you watch the way my fingers burn
    I hate to disillusion ya honey
    It's just licks off of records that I've learned
    
    (from "Licks Off Of Records")
    
    							Brian

 >>   P.S. Maybe I'm going mad, but I've got the July edition of Guitar
 >>   Player (I'm not a regular subscriber) and I can't see any sign of the
 >>   article in question. I bought this edition because it's dedicated to
 >>   the Telecaster (reviews of 32 different Telecasters, transcriptions of
 >>   pieces by Albert Collins, Roy Buchanan and Danny Gatton, interviews
 >>   with the same, etc.)
    
    The "Shred is Dead" issue must be August -- the Tele issue was the
    previous one (GP publishes its issues rather early.
    
    Jim

    
    The reply a few back citing DiMeola as an early "shredder", 
    rings true to me.  But you can keep going back from there. 
    I'd expect Al (and McGloughlin) would say they are descendents
    of the flamenco guitar tradition, which featured burning speed,
    used for romantic _expressive_ purposes.  The Romero brothers
    are the only ones I've listened to in this area, and Paco 
    DiLucia.   
    
    But you can keep going back with the romantic virtuoso performer thing,
    back to Paganini (cited by Yngwie as a fave), Liszt and others.  One
    of these 19th century romantic performers even wore all black in 
    concert, and was said to have sold out to the devil to get all
    his super human chops.  Satanic, man.  
    
    Therefore, by this air-tight logic, Black Sabbath is direct rip-off
    of Franz Liszt. = B-)
                                                    
    Dvae (changed my name to become a shred-meister)

>    One
>    of these 19th century romantic performers even wore all black in 
>    concert, and was said to have sold out to the devil to get all
>    his super human chops.  Satanic, man.  
    
    It was Paganini.
    
    Dave

    > Personally I think the first true shredder was Al Dimeola.  
    
    I think the first true shredder was Django Reinhardt.  That guy
    burned and so did some of the other guys in his band.
    
    And if you're not familiar with him, you may be wondering when he
    came out.
    
    The answer is:	1934!!!!!!!!!!
    
    There are some tunes of his I've heard where he's playing as fast as
    the average shredder (not the hyper-fast shredders like Yngwie and
    Michael Angelo though).
    
    And that was on an acoustic guitar and basically only using two
    fingers in his right hand (he lost the other fingers when he was
    a child, I think it was in a fire).
    
    Django is definitely someone you want to check out.   John Middleton
    has a tape (I don't even know what it's called) which is definitely
    the best Django tape I've heard for appreciating his guitar work.
    
    But not knowing that tape, I'd also recommend the "1934 - Quintet
    D'Hot Club" album.
    
    	db

    BTW, Django is commonly sited as a major influence by the guys who
    are the cited influences of today's shredders: Howe, McLaughlin, etc.

    You can't mistake the GP with the article on shredding; it says
    IS SHRED DEAD on the cover in huge letters. 
    
    Another Neil YOung solo that rates 10 on the emotion scale and 0
    on the shred scale is the one in "F*%!ing Up". The edge-of-a-
    nervous-breakdown feel comes through loud and clear!

    
    Django is one I haven't checked out and would like to.  
    
    Someone also told me that one of his recordings 
    is the first "free jazz".
    
    Which one is that? No tune? No changes?  
       
    Dave, who plans to name all of his children "Yngwie"
                                                        

    
    RE: .31
    
    Being a Neil Young fan I have to comment, Dangerbird is one of my
    favorites.  The other lead (and song) that I like is Cortez (feedback
    from Hell).  Again, Young's ability can be questioned, but he seems to
    have a certain moodiness about him that I like (although, I certainly
    have heard him hit lots of wrong notes, especially live).  And, he'd
    never be mistaken as playing anything close to shred.
    
    Several folks have mentioned John McLaughlin.  I have any album that he
    and Carlos Santana did together called (I think) "Love, Devotion,
    Peace".  The album is a bit uneven, but there a some moments where both
    are just screamin and it's like a huge wall of sound.  I don't know if
    that's in the shred category, but it does move.
   
    Al
    
     
    
    

    >Another Neil YOung solo that rates 10 on the emotion scale and 0
    >on the shred scale is the one in "F*%!ing Up". The edge-of-a-
    >nervous-breakdown feel comes through loud and clear!
    
    Not to push a point, but seeing as I cited Neil Young as an example of
    tasteful playing and "making the solo serve the song and not vice
    versa", here are a couple of other examples:
    
    * Title track to "On The Beach" - a minor key blues with some lovely
    slow bends; talk of making notes count!
    
    * "Southern Man" - This one runs the whole gamut of emotions - it may be
    messy in places, but then I bet he didn't use 25 takes to record the
    solo. And no one else could play the same double-stop ten times in a row 
    and make it sound good! 
    
    I bet no guitar tutor would ever use electric Neil Young as an example
    for his students, just as no singing instructor would ever advise
    anyone to copy his vocal style. But for me, he's the high watermark
    when it comes to "essential" guitar playing.
    
    Dom
    
    

    Re: .40
    
    Just to be clear, Django only had two usable fingers on his FRETTING
    hand.  (I don't recall if he was left or right handed!)
    
    Simply amazing to listen to.

    Ah yes, Django!!! A friend of mine played me an album of his years ago
    and I was blown away.  Then when he told me he could only use 2 fingers
    because the others were rendered usless in a fire and I was doublely blown
    away.  So this only reinforces my belief that shred will never die.
    When Paganini was shredding away way back when, there were probably 
    a bunch of musicians hanging around discussing the same thing we are
    now.

    More on Paganini:
    
    He was also guilty (like many shredders) of writing pieces that showed
    off his technical abilities to the extent that other violinists of the
    day couldn't play them (i.e. not enough chops).
    
    No surprise that Paganini is a favorite of Yngwie's.
    
    As far as Yngwie getting dumped by his label, I'm not surprised. 
    Despite all the hype on his playing, the albums of his I heard all had
    terrible songs.  Real B-level metal posturing, no wonder he wasn't
    selling any.
    
    							Brian 

    RE Paganninni etc.: shred actually probably has more practitioners on
    other instruments than guitars: John Coltrane, Rik (intentional
    misspelling in memory of R. Sawyer) Wakeman, Buddy Rich, Kenny G, Louis
    Armstrong, Pete Fountain ... now *these* guys could shredd !
    
    If Neil Young is the "high water mark" then it's time to call a
    plumber ! (I couldn't resist) In the 20+ years of this guy's career,
    he's put out 2 or maybe 3 songs that I like. I just never smoked enough
    dope to appreciate the subtle nuances of his attempts to strangle music
    out of an otherwise perfectly content guitar (acoustic or electric).
    *Occasionally* he hits on saying something that should be heard, & I
    feel he's one of very few that hasn't "sold out", but he doesn't play
    or sing well. I guess now someone will spec that as the mark of a "true
    artist" GAAAGGG !
      
    

    re: .49
    
    >In the 20+ years of this guy's career, he's put out 2 or maybe 3 songs 
    >that I like.
    
    I could say exactly the same thing for Frank Zappa, only I wouldn't
    doubt his validity as an artist (for want of a better word).
     
    >I just never smoked enough dope to appreciate the subtle nuances of his 
    >attempts to strangle music out of an otherwise perfectly content
    >guitar (acoustic or electric).
    
    Then allow me to recommend Styx, REO Speedwagon and Mr. Mister. I'm
    sure you'll find them a lot gentler on your ears. Now maybe if I
    *start* smoking dope, I'll be able to get off on Satriani, Vai and co.
    
    I thought I'd gone to great pains to underline that I think Neil Young is 
    to be appreciated on an emotional rather than a technical level. In
    fact, I always thought Young was to Stills what Lennon was to MacCartney.
    
    Dom 
    

    IMHO -
    If any one is going to buy a Mcglaughlin (Mahavishnu) CD, Get 
    'Between Nothingness and Eternity'. Side one is live, fast (for then) , 
    and sloppy. :-)  That may not be his best, but its the most 'rock like' 
    I guess. He plays fast on 'The Inner Mounting Flame' CD , but I think he 
    is playing through a Big Muff so its kinda hokey sounding. 
    

    
    One way to sustain/rekindle the shred phenomenom would be to 
    have an annual international shred-fest/championship.  Maybe
    over the Labor Day weekend?  The events could include:
    
    1. Fastest Flight of the Bumble Bee
    
    2. Longest sustained 64th note run at mm = 220. 
    
    3. High note competition 
    
    4. Greatest cumulative high pitch-run within a fixed time period 
    
    5. Single handed runs - right, left, duration, pitch and speed
    
    6. Greatest frequency change within a fixed time period 
    
    Any other suggestions?  Sponsors would include all the             
    instrument manufacturers. 
    
    
    Dave - who's starting to learn guitar by using long tone excercises

    It's an ironic coincidence that we're talking of Yngwie and Neil Young
    in the same context.  Both come across as arrogant assholes in the
    interviews I've read.  ;-)
    
    > He was also guilty (like many shredders) of writing pieces that showed
    > off his technical abilities to the extent that other violinists of the
    > day couldn't play them (i.e. not enough chops).
    
    Interesting you should mention this.  I once had a discussion with
    Steve Morse about this very subject.  I pointed out that the music
    that "withstands the test of time" tends to be music that continues
    to be played.  As so much of Steve's stuff is untouchable by anyone other
    than Steve, he runs the risk of having his music die with him.
    
    I also pointed out that to survive in that way, music must be
    published.   He thought about it and agreed.  About 1.5 years after 
    that discussion he came out with his first book of transcriptions.
    I'd like to think that I had some influence on his decision to do that,
    but I tend to doubt it.
    
    re: Neil Young
    
    Well...  ummm... Neil Young is definitely one of those "I don't get it"
    type things for me.  I find his voice intolerably grating, his songs
    sorta uninteresting musically and lyrically he is preachy in a sort of
    sophomoric way.   And the best thing I can say about his guitar playing
    is that it strikes me as the pinacle or "garage band playing" (which
    really is intended as a compliment though it undeniably seems a
    backhanded compliment on the surface). I guess I could also say that he
    usually plays in tune.  ;-)
    
    However, I'll give him the title of "genius" just by virtue of how many
    people enjoy what he does.   There really is no better benchmark for
    "genuis" in the realm of music.

    One aspect of John Lennon's playing that I don't get from Neil Young's
    is that when I first started listening to him I'd think, "Hey, I can do
    that too !" When I listen to Neil Young, the feeling is more like,
    "Egad, I hope I never sound like *that* !"
    
    The epitome of "garage band" music is probably Stray Cats. (They might
    be way too good to qualify though.)
    
    Most influential shredder of the 21'st century (once Steve Morse & all
    his fans are long gone) Dave Blickstein, of course, without whose
    guidance Morse would've been lost in obscurity !
    Seriously, I'd say it's about a 50/50 chance that that conversation
    either tipped him off to start the transcription project or reminded
    him that he'd been putting it off for too long. As amazing as some of
    these people seem to be, they don't know *everything* & most of them
    don't have to use their "left brain" functions nearly as much as we do.
    (Don't forget that we may be living in the highest density area of
    "right brain dead" people in the universe.)
    
    REO Speedwagon I like for several reasons. It's tough to get excited about
    Styx & Mr. Mister though.
    Frank Zappa P'd me off once too often. He's basically a marketing
    opportunist that knows how music works & plays guitar technically well
    enough to fool most of the people most of the time.
    Dweezil, now he can *shredd* !!! ;-)
    
    Another segment of this shreadd business revolves around the synnergy 
    between advances in playing technique & advances in guitar & amplifier
    technology. Floyd Rose & Gallien/Kruger come to mind. Extreme
    practitioners tend to push the envelope of existing technology in ways
    that lead to new plateaus.
    That may be one common attribute of a genius, ability to go beyond what
    anyone had considered possible.
    
    Paul 
       

    I always thought that the epitome of "garage band" music is/was The
    Rolling Stones.  They've clearly been extremely successful and have
    held the test of time with playing abilities on the lower end of the
    scale.
    
    Greg 

    Ah yes, I *knew* I'd forgotten *someone*.
    Paul
    

    I thought of one more good thing to say about Neil Young:
    
    		He blows away Petrucci.

    No one....  BUT NO ONE !!!
    
     			Blows away Petrucci...
    
    :-)

    re: Yngwie
    
    Don't hold your collective breaths. Rumour patrol has it that he's just
    got a new band together and is writing for a new album with a new deal
    etc..
    
    -Tony

.0>They really made Yngwie look like an egotistical jerk...

    must have been virtually effortless to accomplish this

    re:.14
    Tornado Alley is still around (kind of)
    They are called BIG DAWG. Its Basically Tornado Alley without the horn
    section. 
      They play clubs in Worcester like the Plantation Club and Bowlers
    (near Ralphs) I see them Every chance I get)

>>.0>They really made Yngwie look like an egotistical jerk...

>    must have been virtually effortless to accomplish this
    
    It probably cost them no more than the ink for two quotation marks.

>    Don't hold your collective breaths. Rumour patrol has it that he's just
>    got a new band together and is writing for a new album with a new deal
>    etc..
 
    Yawn...  His first album was cool, and there were a *few* decent songs
    on some of the other ones, but basically they all sound ALIKE!  What's
    the point in putting out more of his rehash?
    
    Greg

    re: What's the point in putting out more of his rehash?
    
    Unfortunately, because someone will buy it!  When it stops selling,
    he'll stop rehashing....
    
    All of the Steve Morse CD's I have "sound the same"...there's no
    mistaking his style and songwriting, but I LOVE IT!
    
    Whatchya gonna do?
    
    steev  8^)

    I must have Yngwie's first then. I think it's called "Rising Force".
    It's good to listen to it because it pushes the frontier of human
    playability. I also have a live one which is excellent. (Yes, it's full
    of audience milking & grandstanding, but it's still AXcellent.) 
    
    Why more rehash ?? Sometimes I want to listen to 45 minutes (or
    whatever) worth of a given "mood" of music without necessarily hearing
    the identical tunes. I've about burned through my Eric Johnson CD, so
    it gets set aside for longer periods of time now. I find that Yngwie is
    very listenable after extended periods of exposure to less talented
    players. It took a long time for me to buy his recordings, mostly
    because of the negative hype, but when I actually *heard* him, I wish I
    had been more of a fan earlier on.
    
    Of course by now everyone's heard the joke: 
    Q.) What does "Yngwie Malmsteen" in Sweedish mean in English ?
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    A.) Opening Act.
    
    I'm afraid if I were to boycott every musician that had a reputation
    for being an arrogant a$$hole, I'd have to watch TV or listen to "talk
    radio" instead.
    
    Speaking of which, (& I know sonewhere there's a separate topic for
    these guys) I got to meet (formerly) DEC's own Charlie Farren in
    person, & a nicer more easy going guy, you couldn't find in a hundred
    years. That's just in case you thought I thought *all* musicians were
    "a a's" 
    
    Paul
    

    
    re: Steve
    
>    Unfortunately, because someone will buy it!  When it stops selling,
>    he'll stop rehashing....
 
    As I recall, his last album did very poorly in sales.  I believe that's
    the reason he was dropped.
       
>    All of the Steve Morse CD's I have "sound the same"...there's no
>    mistaking his style and songwriting, but I LOVE IT!
 
    No offense or anything, but I don't think Morse's stuff sounds the same
    at all.  Yes, it's clearly him and his style, but the songs are varied.
    
    re: Paul
    
>    I'm afraid if I were to boycott every musician that had a reputation
>    for being an arrogant a$$hole, I'd have to watch TV or listen to "talk
>    radio" instead.
    
    And if you'd boycott all the TV shows and movies that had actors or
    directors that were also arrogant, and avoid the radio shows where the
    DJ is an arrogant person as well, then you'd have a *lot* of time on
    your hands!
    
    I have nothing against Yngwie 'cause he's a jerk.  I don't have to deal
    with him personally, and listening to an album, I can turn him off
    whenever I want!  8^)
                         
    Greg
        

    I've met Yngwie -- he is every much an egotistical jerk everyone sez he
    is!!
    
    But that aside, I think the problem with Yng's career (or lack thereof)
    lies IN the fact he has an ego.  He can't keep a solid band...he
    insists on doing all of the songwriting and production of his albums.
    He is NO Prince!!  He has burning guitar chops, but he does NOT have 
    the talent or insight to effectively take the reins and run the whole
    show, while still producing a quality product!!
    
    Yngwie's BEST work to date, imvho, was the Alcatrazz album "No Parole
    from Rock n Roll".  The reasons are clear -- he was in a BAND, the
    song-writing was shared, and the album production was done by a 
    professional.  I think the extraneous influences in the album process
    forced him to produce better performances on album, and were able to
    craft better songs, and an overall 'sound'.  
    
    The problem with Yngwie's solo work lies in uninspiried instrument
    performances buried in walls of guitar noodling.  The song writing is
    poor to weak, and the producation values miminal to none.  If  Yngwie
    was smart, he would get a solid band together again, and not try and
    play all the instruments on his next album.  Hired a crack
    Producer/Engineer team, and maybe some professional song-writers. Only
    then do I think his guitar talents would have a chance at sales in the
    marketplace.  Otherwise, his next album will be the same crap he's 
    been trying to sell for the last 5 years, with more and more people 
    becoming increasingly uninterested.

    RE: GH,
    
    >>No offense or anything, but I don't think Morse's stuff sounds the same
    >>at all.  Yes, it's clearly him and his style, but the songs are varied.
    
    None taken.  Depends on what you mean by 'sounds the same'....to me
    it's when I hear a tune that I've never heard before, and I KNOW
    without a doubt who the artist is.  Yes, Steve Morse really mixes up
    the tones, moods, tempos, etc.  So does Eric Johnson, but you can
    identify those guys from a mile away.  This is goodness to me;
    everybody has their 'signature'!
    
    |*}
    
    dawg

>   Depends on what you mean by 'sounds the same'....to me
>    it's when I hear a tune that I've never heard before, and I KNOW
>    without a doubt who the artist is.
    
    I call that "style".  If I can listen to an album by someone and not be
    able to differentiate when one song's ended and another's begun without
    looking at the display on the CD player, then I call that "sounding the
    same".
    
    Greg

    >I call that "style".  If I can listen to an album by someone and not be
    >able to differentiate when one song's ended and another's begun
    >without looking at the display on the CD player, then I call that "sounding
    >the same".
    
    Kinda like Neil (gag) Diamond?
    
    8^)

    You knew I'd have something to say when Steve Morse was mentioned
    right?  ;-)
    
    Anyway, I agree with Greg in that saying that all his albums "sound the
    same" means something entirely different from what you meant, which
    is usually expressed as "has a very identifiable sound".
    
    I think most of the Dregs records do sorta sound the same - the
    exception being "Freefall" which didn't have the big production sound
    that subsequent albums had.
    
    I certainly don't think that "High Tension Wires" sounds like his other
    solo albums, and neither "High Tension" nor his solo albums "sound
    like" Dregs albums to me.
    
    "High Tension Wires" was almost like "Morse does New Age".   A very big
    departure for him.  Of course he would tell you that "Wires" was his
    only solo album, and that the other post-Dregs albums were "Steve Morse
    Band" albums.

RE: db and Django
    
>    And that was on an acoustic guitar and basically only using two
>    fingers in his right hand (he lost the other fingers when he was
>    a child, I think it was in a fire).
    

Wasn't it his left hand, db?  I'm sure it was his fretting hand and I don't
recall that he was left-handed.(?)  A lot of his fast scale stuff was gliss
but he still did amazing stuff with just the first and second fingers.

Django was probably the first shredder with a flat pick.  Who knows how long
flamenco players have been shredding?

Bob

Twas indeed the left hand, or at least the fretting hand...

flamenco players have been shredding for 100's of years...check out any 
sabbacis (sp??) album...whew! Yngvie  should be so lucky!

dbii

    Hey, it's a conspiracy...just saw an issue of GFTPM and the cover
    story is Anthrax and Kiss dissing shred.  Has the usual "the song is
    all important to me" and "I consider myself a songwriter not a
    guitarist" blow-wad that I thought went out with Nigel Tufnel.  
    
    Anyway, I guess the big shred backlash is officially with us.  Maybe
    Shrapnel will reissue some of those recorded-in-Chicago Cub Koda
    sides...
    
    
    							Keef 

    So, maybe we need another note called "Is dissing shred cool ?"
    ;-) ;-) ;-)
    
    Paul 

    >>So, maybe we need another note called "Is dissing shred cool ?"
    
    Dunno, but dissing Clapton sure got popular!
    
    8^P

    >>So, maybe we need another note called "Is dissing shred cool ?"
    
    > Dunno, but dissing Clapton sure got popular!
    
    I've noticed a (very) strong correlation between people who are turned off
    by shred and people who listen to Clapton.
    
    Clapton sorta seems to represent the anti-thesis of shred.  
    
    	db
    
    p.s.  I remember once making a bet with someone that if I entered a
          note asking about techniques to achieve speed that someone
    	  would reply with a standard sermon on "playing with taste".
    
    	  I won that bet.

    >Clapton sorta seems to represent the anti-thesis of shred.  
    
    I thought the antithesis of shred was Danny Bonaduce...
    
    						Brian

    I give up - who's Danny Bonaduce?
    
    Dave

 played air-bass for the Partridge family...
		...lately prone to beating up tranvestites in parking lots...

    I seem to recall he played Danny in the Partridge Family TV show, where
    he stood around holding a P-Bass (or was it a Rick?) and badly lip
    synching words near a cheezy lookin mike.
    
    gh

    Re: .82
    
    P-bass?  Rick?  Heresy!  Any true Partridge afficiando knows they were
    official Ovation endorsees.  I almost bought one of those Ovation
    Tornado basses once...thank God I showed some (rare) self-control and
    got a Peavey instead  8^)  8^)
    
    							B

    I think dissing Clapton got popular because a so many people expect so
    much from him. He's certainly a good player, & he's even improved
    lately (IMHO), but he's just not as far out in front of the pack as he
    was with Cream, Blues Breakers, etc. 
    I happen to be one of the (many ?) people who was turned off not only
    by his switch to Fender Strat, but by his whole approach to music
    starting around the same time. Could it be that he lost his inspiration
    when Duane Allman died ? 
    Anyway, he still sounds good, & he got to be "God" for a day, so I
    can't see bashing him or his (current) style. The stuff he plays just
    isn't relevant to pushing the frontiers of rock music anymore.
    On the other hand, some people just don't know who(m) to dis', so they
    go after who(m)ever is fashionable.
    
    Paul
    
     

I like speed (and touch and feel and tone, etc.).  For me, fast clean 
guitar playing is just about the most exciting music there is.  

Bob

    Oh, *that* Danny Bonaduce.  Right up there with Peter (?) Tork in the
    pantheon of bass gods.
    
    Dave

    >Oh, *that* Danny Bonaduce.  Right up there with Peter (?) Tork in the
    >pantheon of bass gods.
    
    don't be PUTTIN' down the Monkees, now............
    
    grrrrrrr
                                 

    Geez, now I don't know *who* to make fun of.  Next thing you know it
    won't be PC to make fun of drummers.  Or even Ringo.  %^)
    
    Dave

    >Next thing you know it won't be PC to make fun of drummers.  Or even Ringo.
    >%^)
    
    

            Hey, lets watch it now...we're talkin' my man here...

                   ...well, at least he was 30 years ago!!!

   >> Hey, lets watch it now...we're talkin' my man here...
    
    
    my sincere apologies........I find Ringo, er, uh, unique, yeah that's
    it, unique!
    
    8^)

    OK, OK, I was just kidding.  (Actually, I think Ringo's all right.)
    So let's make fun of ... Neil Young!  %^)
    
    Dave

    >>So let's make fun of ... Neil Young!  %^)
    
    Careful, the Blair_unit will find out and hurt you!
    
    |*}

    I think bass players have the coolest *names*: Peter Tork (torque ?),
    Bill Wyman (Y-man ?), Ben Orr (you've *got* to be kidding !)
    
    The bass player for the Rings was perhaps the ugliest performer ever to
    take the stage in the Boston area.
    
    Paul

>    The bass player for the Rings was perhaps the ugliest performer ever to
>    take the stage in the Boston area.
 
    You mean Kiss never played there?

    RE: Glh
    
    No way, Bob Gifford out-uglied Gene Simmons hands (face?) down!!  
    
    But... THE RINGS ROOL THE PLANET!!!!!!!!!!!  So ugliness is acceptable
    
    
    Buck -- bang, bang (outta my head)

    No way!  I'm quite sure that Gene Simmons is the ugliest bass player on
    the planet!
    
    gh

    >             -< And there's a LOT of ugly ones around!!! >-
    
    Billy K, you're out there, aren't you?  Sic 'em, bwah!
    
    Dave

    Bob Gifford played that HUGE log too. (An Ampeg, or a Gibson offset
    body maybe ?) I'm not sure what brand, but his bass helped him to look
    extra ugly. Definitely a top notch band though, so ugly is OK for bass
    players. 
    Gene Simmons *wishes* he were that ugly !
    
    Paul 

    Why is it necessary to say "ugly" and "bass player" in the same 
    sentence?
    
    Edd

    >Bob Gifford played that HUGE log too. (An Ampeg, or a Gibson offset
    >body maybe ?) I'm not sure what brand, but his bass helped him to look
    >extra ugly. Definitely a top notch band though, so ugly is OK for bass
    >players. 
    
    I have a vintage Rings photo, and Gifford is shown with one of those 
    old Gibson Ripper basses ... the big one with the varitone knob on it.
    Later, when I got a great fake id to catch them in clubs (hey, I was
    16, ok?), he was playing a Washburn (apparently, he had secured an
    endorsement deal).
    
    FYI -- Mike Baker graduated from Fender Mustang's to a Strat, and Mark
    Sutton always played that Les Paul Std.

    re: Gibson Ripper...
    
    'zat the one with the sliding humbucker?
    
    Edd

    > I'm quite sure that Gene Simmons is the ugliest bass player on
    > the planet!
    
    Surely you must have forgotten Lemmy?
    
    At least Simmons has all his teeth!

    Re: .102
    
    Go read the Gibson bass note...the *Grabber* had the sliding pickup. 
    Gene Simmons used one for awhile.
    
    							Brian

    Re: .103
    
    Is Lemmy uglier than Roy Estrada?
    
    Hey, there's plenty of pretty-boy bassists, too:  Paul McC, Mark Andes,
    Chris Hillman, Tom Petersson, Sting, Jack Blades, Kip Winger, Andy
    Foster, Edd Cote, etc.
    
    							Brian

    Who's the world's ugliest axe player (besides me and Coop)?
    
    I vote for Joe Walsh.....
    
    I'd vote for Keith Richard's, but ya have to be able to play guitar to
    qualify......
    
    >8*}

    That poofter eric clapton gets my vote for uglist guitarist AND worst
    player!  CC Deville with that flaming pink hair and schnoz for dayz
    comes in a close second!

     >That poofter eric clapton gets my vote for uglist guitarist AND worst
     >player!
    
    I saw *this* one comin'!
    
    dawg 

    re: Ugliest guitar player
    
    Too bad Mick Jagger doesn't play guitar eh?

	Not to Slash-bash, but he's a definite nominee.  And also
	stretching the definition of guitar player, Neil Dung is 
	also a nominee imo.

	Lv

    >>Too bad Mick Jagger doesn't play guitar eh?
    
    Actually, I thought I saw him at least holding a guitar in a tape of a
    live show.  I don't pay much attention to the Stones, but the image of
    Mick playing an axe rings a bell.  He's probably better than Keith, so
    he duzzent get to play.......
    
    Do you really think Mick is uglier than Joe Walsh?  I mean, Mick got to
    date all those guys, he must have *something* going for him.  Maybe
    the attraction is pure personality.....
    
    Dear Abbey

>    Surely you must have forgotten Lemmy?
    
    Yeah...right you are, I did forget about Lemmy.
    
>    Who's the world's ugliest axe player (besides me and Coop)?
>    
>    I vote for Joe Walsh.....
    
    Joe's definitely a contender...
    
>    I'd vote for Keith Richard's, but ya have to be able to play guitar to
>    qualify......
    
    And be among the living, I'm sure there's plenty of dead and rotting
    that don't look so hot these days.
      
    And FWIW, Jagger does play the guitar a little.  Rhythm on a couple of
    songs when they play live.
    
    gh
                               

    
    
    You want to talk about ugly guitar players!!??  Well, then, what about
    G. E. Smith?  Stick a couple of bolts in his neck and he could cover
    Frankenstein for the rest of his life!
    
    

    What about that dood whos Richard Marx' lead guitarist -- used to be
    one of the brats on the Walnuts (Waltons)...fugly!

>G. E. Smith

    If only he'd get that goofy look off his face and then find some material
    to play. He does have great gear, that's the other reason I hate 'im.

personally I think GE SMith is a damn fine player, butt ugly, but a good 
player. As far as ugly bass players go I always felt that T Bone was a
shoo-in (GE Smith's old running buddy from Hall & Goats) but another fine 
player. The last time I was drug (dragged, drugged??) to a Hall and Goats
show GE had the ugliest suit I have ever seen in my life on, this includes
some of the mid-70's doubleknit leasure suits that I saw wandering the streets
of Memphis, Tenn...and that takes effort!

dbii

    I'm so glad this note has taken a turn to matters of such importance,
    but for the record, RE .102, Mark Sutton's "Les Paul" was a Hamer which
    he played through possibly the ugliest (most beautiful) amplifier in
    the galaxy, a 100 watt Orange (Can you guess what color ?) with
    matching 4x12 Orange speaker cabinet.
    
    Kustom Naugahide amps have been accused of being ugly, but they're only
    ugly when you choose an ugly color (baeides, I like them). They do get
    ratty looking in a hurry if you're not careful.
    
    Paul

    >I'm so glad this note has taken a turn to matters of such importance,
    >but for the record, RE .102, Mark Sutton's "Les Paul" was a Hamer which
    >he played through possibly the ugliest (most beautiful) amplifier in
    >the galaxy, a 100 watt Orange (Can you guess what color ?) with
    >matching 4x12 Orange speaker cabinet.
    
    I have never seen a photo, or a live gig where Sutton had a Hamer in
    his hands!!  My vintage Rings photos clearly show him with a *Gibson*
    Les Paul STD and a *120*wt Orange half-stack.  The photo is even clear
    enough to see the Dimarzio Super Distortion replacement humbucker in
    the guitar's bridge position.
    
    Later in life when I started catch Rings gigs, Mark had moved on to
    using 100wt Marshall JMP half-stacks with a small Legend (remember
    those?) combo used as a preamp.  He kept the Gibson...

    I saw them twice within the same year. L.P. Hamer & Orange half stack
    both times. My band was covering "Let Me Go" at the time, so maybe it
    was 1981 ?
    
    I assumed he played it by choice because they weren't that inexpensive,
    & most of his playing was "parts" as opposed to "hummin' 'n strummin'".
    Maybe he took the Hamer on the road. At least one of those gigs was in
    Leominster.
    Paul

    re uglies:  have you seen Robin Trower lately?  He could pass for 
    Keith Richard's grandma.
    
    /paul_goddard_wannabe

Tom Petty could make an onion cry. I think heartbreak describes his mothers 
feelings when she recalls the day of his birth. Now he's butt ugly...

re Blues CDs  

has anyone heard the Paul Rodgers "Tribute to Muddy Waters" ?

It features a lot of artist : Jeff Beck, David Gilmour, Buddy Guy, Brian May,
			      Gary Moore, Trevor Rabin, Richie Sambora
			      Neal Schon, Brian Setzer.

One of my favorites on the CD is done by David Gilmour. I never considered him
as being a capable blues guitarist, but he does a great job on "Standing Around
Crying"

The CD features enough guitarist that the variations of styles & expressions
of blues playing so you shouldn't get bored.

Are any of you out there into Laser Discs ?  I've got a great collection of
live performances by Clapton, B.B King ( with Albert King, SRV and more),
Gary Moore, SRV @ Club Macombo several Jazz discs as well as rock
LD doesn't have all of the energy of being at a live performance, but this 
medium beats the hell out of just listening to a CD.