Conference napalm::guitar

    I found no note on this topic, and I was curious.......
    
    Through the years, I have periodically come across music
    videos of Prince and his band.  In all the videos I have seen, he is
    always holding a pretty stupid (IMHO) looking guitar.  He makes lots of
    fancy schmancy  hand motions as if he is actually playing the thing,
    but I can't remember ever actually hearing any solos or chords in the
    music.
    
    >> Fixed the typos.....sheesh!@

    As far as I can tell, Prince played the solo at the end of
    "Let's Go Crazy" live in the movie "Purple Rain". That's 
    a killer solo. So he's obviously a good guitar player. Why
    he has to hide it under all the sleazeball window dressing
    is a mystery to me. 

    He's a hell of a guitar player. Before he duded his bad self all up, his
    act was pretty straight-ahead hard-core fusion funk. Saw him on SNL back
    abound 82 and he blew my mind. Too bad about him now.

    --Ron

Yes, as already noted, Prince is one hell of a guitar player. Keep in mind
that he played ALL the instruments on his first three albums. It wasn't until 
'1999' and 'Purple Rain' that he formed a band (The Revolution), and even
then he was still the lead guitarist. 

Now, in the New Power Generation, he does have a second guitarist who plays
a lot of leads on the newer material. But when I saw him live a few weeks
ago, Prince still straps on the guitar for an occasional (searing!) solo.

alan

    I had no idea.......wow.  I'll pay closer attention next time...
    
    thanks!

    I don't know much about Prince, probably wouldn't recognize him or his
    work, but one thing impressed me... I was on a Northwest Airlines
    flight once and they had a short travelogue promoting Minneapolis MN.
    
    One thing they featured Prince built is called Paisley Park (?) that is
    a huge sound stage/recording/performing complex for aspiring musicians
    and performers to use.
    \Gary 

_    /|            _    /|             _    /|            _    /|
\'o.O'             \'o.O'              \'o.O'             \'o.O'
=(___)=   Aack!!!  =(___)=   Aack!!!   =(___)=   Aack!!!  =(___)=   Aack!!!
   U                  U                   U                  U
    

    >...hide it under all the sleazeball window dressing...
    
    Prince isn't at the top of my list of fave performers, but there are
    damn few I respect more. He's taken *his* vision of what he wants his
    music/performance to be and chased it, with no small amount of commer-
    cial success.
    
    I've never heard anyone say they were disappointed at one of his
    concerts. (OK, someone tell me how they were disappointed at one of his
    concerts now...)
    
    Your mileage may vary, but he seems to have more sincerity TO his music
    than any half dozen other acts.
    
    Edd 

    Prince is a monster!!
    
    I, too, have seen him play in the early days, and he BURNS!!  Killer
    funk chops, blazing speed metal type ability, soulful blues styles..
    he's got it down!
    
    Then add the fact he plays 20 instruments proficiently, as well as
    engineers/arranges/produces all his albums ... *I* use the term
    musical genious, but a lot may not
    
    To each his own

    
    	His show was fabulous (Edd ;^) and his solos were, in fact,
    	"searing"!!  (thanks, Alan).  He puts more feeling into his
    	solos than most anyone.  
    
    	But this string will probably be overrun with 'ackers just
    	like the Clapton/Layla thing.  
    
    	Btw, the reviews compared him to Hendrix.
    
    	His show was one "Sexy MF".
    

    So,
    
    if I wanna check out his solo style, what tune/album should I LSITEN
    to?
    
    dawg

    >if I wanna check out his solo style, what tune/album should I LSITEN
    >to?
    
    Anything off PURPLE RAIN.  For his funky rhythm style, check out
    CONTROVERSY or DIRTY MIND.

    You could also check out the end of the tune "1999" from the album of
    the same name... Ditto the "Purple Rain" recommendation...
    
    Edd

    One can only aspire to be comparable to Hendrix (or SRV  for that
    matter). Prince is good, Prince is talented, but he ain't no Hendrix...
    
    I just wonder what Prince will be playing when he turns intoi an olde
    phart...

    > ...he ain't no Hendrix...
    
    $SET MODE=VAL_DIFF and all that...
    
    I often have to wonder who's better, Hendrix the Musician, or Hendrix
    the Legend. I used to love Jimi's stuff, but now only find it
    nostalgic. 
    
    Which isn't to say I worship Prince's bathwater either. I guess I
    wonder why the comparison is even made...
    
    Edd

    If he's lucky, he'll at least live to *be* an olde phart.  That's more
    than Jimi or Stevie can say...
    
    Dave

>    Then add the fact he plays 20 instruments proficiently, as well as
>    engineers/arranges/produces all his albums ... *I* use the term
>    musical genious, but a lot may not
    
    I also use that term.  Prince is an amazing talant.  Even if you don't
    like his music, just about anyone can appreciate recognize his talant,
    hard work, and attention to detail.
    
>    One can only aspire to be comparable to Hendrix (or SRV  for that
>    matter). Prince is good, Prince is talented, but he ain't no Hendrix...
    
    That's right.  Prince actually writes all his music by himself, without
    collaborators.  He also plays the majority of the parts on the
    recordings (all of 'em on the early stuff), and engineers and produces
    it himself.  And most of his music is more then a I-IV-V with a
    screaming lead over it.
    
    That's not to knock Jimi, he was a great player and I love his stuff. 
    He was an innovator at the time and he inspired a lot of people (Prince
    included, readily apparent in his lead style).  
                                                  
>    I just wonder what Prince will be playing when he turns intoi an olde
>    phart...
    
    He's no spring chicken now...
                                 
    Greg                 

I'll also recommend the 'Purple Rain' for a beginner. It has his most
accessible and best known work, and also features some real nice guitar
work - notably the rockin' of "Let's Go Crazy" and the wailing ending of 
"Purple Rain".

alan

    1999 and whatever he did just before that is the works I'm referring to.
    Monster stuff. I believe he played a stock Telecaster. Yeah, I'd use the
    term genius, although I think he's wasting his talent these days in
    favor of showmanship. But, hey, that's his choice. One things for sure,
    whatever he does, he does it the best he can. He went for the big bucks
    and he got 'em.

    Re: .17
    
    No spring chicken?  Man, you're making me feel *really* old and
    flatulent.  He's only about 30 isn't he?
    
    						Gramps  

    > ...old and flatulent...
    
    I be rolling...(someone find my walker...)
    
    Edd

>He's only about 30 isn't he?
    
    Naw, he's gotta be older then that.  Alan, help us out here!
         
    Old?  I'd venture that I'm at least as old as you are, Brian (Gramps),
    and I'd bet that we're both younger then Prince.  He's been around a
    long time!
    
    Greg 

    FWIW, I happen to like Prince's current album.  Good stuff!  No, it's
    not 1999 or Purple Rain, but those came out about ten years ago.  You
    gotta change with the times or you're history.
    
    He has done some stuff between these two that I didn't really care for
    though.
    
    Greg

    As far as I'm concerned, he might as well be Madonna.  

>I'll also recommend the 'Purple Rain' for a beginner. It has his most
>accessible and best known work, and also features some real nice guitar
>work - notably the rockin' of "Let's Go Crazy" and the wailing ending of 
>"Purple Rain".

    I always thought that hot guitar solo was in the beginning of the
    tune about when the doves cry.
    
    In any case, wasn't there some controversy surrounding someone else
    claiming to have played that part and not getting credit?

>> He's only about 30 isn't he?
> Naw, he's gotta be older then that.  Alan, help us out here!

Well, let's see.... his first album came out in 1978, didn't it? And he
was 19 when it first came out, if I remember correctly. So, doing a little
math, it makes him about 34 or so....

alan

34 would be my guess, too.

    That makes him about 4 months older then I am.  Pretty depressing
    thought considering what he's done with his music and what I've (not)
    done with mine.  
    
    A really great thing to hear to top off a great evening...
    
    Greg

    What gets me about Prince is all the crotch-grabbing, dry-humping, 
    and licking that seem to be pervasive in all the videos I've seen.
    It's like some corporate guy has decided that this will make Prince
    sell more CD's. Like a porno movie, after a few minutes it's boring
    instead of interesting.

    re: crotch-grabbing, dry-humping,
    and licking that seem to be pervasive in all the videos I've
    seen....after a few minutes it's boring instead of interesting.
    
    
    Who actually *does* like this stuff?  Madonna and Michael Jackson think
    it's the classic move too!  Most of my peer group find it
    disgusting....must be gettin' old.
    
                               

>    That makes him about 4 months older then I am.  Pretty depressing
>    thought considering what he's done with his music and what I've (not)
>    done with mine.  
    
    Reminds me of Tom Lehrer's comment, "When Mozart was my age, he'd been
    dead for five years."
    
    Don't feel bad Greg, he probably has a lousy family life, y'know?
    
    Dave (who's about Stevie Wonder's age, BTW)

     >>Dave (who's about Stevie Wonder's age, BTW)
    
    
    Dave,
    
    how old *is* Stevie Wonder ?
    
    8^0

    re: gestures: Prince, Madonna, MJ...
    
    Though the gestures are similar, they seem to spring from different
    places. Madonna is the consummate media manipulator; if it'll sell
    she'll do it. More power to her. MJ doesn't seem (IMO) to approach
    it from a sexual perspective. ("I grabbed my *what*?"). I don't see
    him as overtly sexual.
    
    Prince, on the otherhand, reeks sex. From his lyrics to his ejaculating
    guitar, it's part of his persona. I doubt he gives a damn whether you
    or I like it or not. (Given his sales, I'd say there's a goodly number
    of folks who are either interested or nonchalant.) 
    
    Edd

    
    Good analysis, Edd.  It does seem that a large part of Prince's energy
    is derived from a sexual groove.  But since it is such a large part of
    his work, it must be an honest component of his musical persona.
    
    When you stop to think about it, he's actually kind of limiting his
    audience - but at the same time, he gets a bit of press for the
    notoriety.  So, would your average CD-buying high school kid know about
    Prince if he didn't have those hot videos on MTV?  Let's face it, he
    doesn't fit the physical stereotype for rock stars...
    
    It is encouraging to hear that the guy can actually play, though.  I
    wasn't sure that he was actually playing any of the guitar solos - they
    start out pretty wild and just keep going even further out - probably a
    good thing to listen to if you're stuck in a rut with your own stuff.
    

    
    	Edd, after all these years, I'm still waiting for you to write
    	a note that I could have said it better.  You sure have a way
    	of getting the point across.  Maybe it's our age ;^) but I
    	always agree with you.  Now, speaking of karaoke guitar... ;^)
    
    	As far as the sex part goes, yeah it is a little uncomfortable.
    	Strange to hear 3,000 people singing "you sexy MF", that's for
    	sure.  
    
    	But I'd bet that the majority of his fans are female too...
    
    	... btw, he did a wild solo (just him, no backup) with the
    	delay set to repeat dramatically.  We all know how easy it is
    	to do this but he really had the crowd going nuts.  Also a
    	much better tone than usual.  To me, his sound is a bit heavy
    	on the wah-all-the-way-down.
    
    	Tom
    

    If sex didn't sell, he and Madonna would be doing the Leisure Suit
    Lounge Lizard(tm) gig.

    re: .33
    
    Stevie Wonder will be 43 this year.  %^(  But he's still younger than
    Keith Richards...
    
    Dave
    
    Speaking of old age, it just occurred to me that when I get old and
    lose some of my hearing, I can still play and listen to rock & roll - 
    just crank it up!

    re: -1
    
    *Everyone* is younger than Keith Richards....at least everyone *looks*
    younger.
    
    Re: "when I get old and lose some of my hearing"
    
    You don't have to be 'old' to lose some hearing.....I finally broke
    down and made a doctor appointment.  Since I QUIT playing regularly, my 
    hearing loss is even more apparent.  My ears ring constantly, and when I'm 
    in a quiet environment, the ringing is terribly annoying.  |*(
    
    dawg (what?)

    re: -1
    
    Jeez, Steve, answer that phone, will ya?
    
    Dave

    
    	re .38 - give me a break.  I realize you're into your thing but
    	eliminating music about sex just about does rock and roll in
    	altogether.  
    
    	

    RE: Perversion...
    
    Check out the lyrics to "Nikki" off of Purple Rain sometime.
    Yike!  
    jc
    
    (PS - I think I KNEW Nikki !!  :-) 

>    	re .38 - give me a break.  I realize you're into your thing but
>    	eliminating music about sex just about does rock and roll in
>    	altogether.  
    
    I seriously doubt that.  You can take away Prince and all the
    poseur-teeny-bopper "boy meets girl" type bands and still have lots of
    great music and talent out there.

>    *Everyone* is younger than Keith Richards....at least everyone *looks*
>    younger.
    
    Yah, but how many 'of 'em have also been dead for the last 15 years? 
    Answer me that one!
    
    gh

    >>Yah, but how many 'of 'em have also been dead for the last 15 years?
    >>Answer me that one!
    
    
    How *does* he DO that?!
    
    8^)

    
    
      Price is a media manipulator as is Madyawna and crew.
    No big deal.  Give 'em what they want.  Give 'em what 
    sells.  Sex.
    
      His first venture was the high sexual overtones.  That
    sold.  Hmmmmm.  Then there were two women that he packaged
    up into the band, at different times.  One was Vanity.
    The other was some single name, name also.  Both were sexy
    as the day is long.  [insert wolf noise here]  They sold
    and made a fistful-o-bucks for him.  
    
      He's always used sex as a tool.  (As oppose to me, I use 
    my tool for sex!  Hahahaha wagagagaagagaaaga hee hee hee!)
    
      Talented? Yes.  Your cup of tea? Maybe not.  Rich? You bet.
    
    
      Rick.
                 What *was* that other name? 
    
                                   

    re: .46  (How *does* he DO that?!)
    
    It's either mirrors or smoke!
    
    re: .47
    
    Was it Appollonia?
    
    Dave

> The 2nd name was.... 

Appolonia.

And don't forget his work with The Time also!

alan

>    How *does* he DO that?!
    
    I hear opium based products act as preservatives...

    ...not to forget Wendy and Lisa from The Revolution who also went on
    to (admittedly limited) solo/duo careers.
    
    I don't think his sex is any more market-driven than Bwooce's "working
    class hero" shtick is. It's pretty much who they are and where they've 
    been. 
    
    Edd

    I guess the sex schtick gets old for me. Maybe if Mariah Carey
    used a similar approach my attention span would be greater :-)

    > Maybe if Mariah Carey...
    
    No argument from this corner.
    
    Edd

    
    What's all the hype about Prince playing all the instruments and doing
    all the engineering & production all about?  Geez, Todd Rundgren has
    been doing it for 20 years!  What's more, you don't see him reducing
    himself to "formulas" whether they be musical or image.
    
    Prince might be talented, but artistically he is a slave to the
    almighty dollar.
    
    Prince is to music as McDonalds is to cuisine.  Same can be said for
    Madonna.
    

    Face it, if people didn't *like* McDonalds, there wouldn't be one on
    every corner.
    
    There are a number of people that have played everything on their
    albums, produced and engineered themselves, so what?  I think it's a
    cool thing, but it's hard to do and it's rare to find someone who can
    do it successfully.  Personally, Todd Rundgren has always bored me.  An
    example of someone who doesn't bore me that performs all the parts on
    his recordings is Trent Reznor (who got a Grammy this year, FWIW).
    
    gh

    
    Prince bores me because I listen to music with my brain and not with
    my hips.  Perhaps I would not feel so strongly about the little twerp 
    if he wasn't so damned obnoxious.
    
    "MY NAME IS PRINCE....AND I AM FUNKY!!"
    
    Like I really care?  intellectually, this is nowheresville.  At least
    Rundgren's equally dancible "LOVE SCIENCE" has some reedeeming lyrical
    quality.  Unfortunately, no airplay.
    
    -Ed
    
    

    I think what people are responding to in this thread is not that he
    plays all those instruments and produces and engineers albums, because
    as you say, a number of people have done all that, but that someone
    whose music and schtick are so commercial is in fact so musically 
    talented.  It's surprising, that's all.
    
    Dave

    Looks like we're ratholing big time here (weren't we tlaking about
    Prince's guitar chops?), but I would just like to say that although I
    have certainly been guilty of slagging people for being "commercial" in
    the past, it's easy to forget what that word means.
    
    If you play music for money, you *are* "commercial".  Whether you are
    shallow and a worthless turd or an artiste is another matter.  
    
    Steely Dan, the Beatles, the Police, Miles Davis, Toscannini were all
    "commercial", too.  When musicians are talking about "selling out" it's 
    a bit misleading because you've already sold out when you get that
    first $5 gig.  Sure, I agree that it would be *nice* if musicians
    followed their muse rather than their bank balances, but if you're a
    pro you have the disadvantage of having music as your *job*.  The
    players in here are *lucky*, we can play whatever we want because we
    don't depend on gig money to stay alive.    
    
    Prince has obvious debts to James Brown, George Clinton, Sly and Jimi,
    but he *has* created something of his own.  I certainly don't get the
    impression he's pandering to the public.  If he was, why would he have
    bothered following the success of "Purple Rain" with a detour into
    psychedlia?  He could have easily turned out "Purple Rain, Pt. II".   
    
    Lastly, the idea that commercial dreck requires no talent is a bit
    naiive.  The ability to whip out music to order requires quite a bit of
    talent.   Just because the end result isn't art doesn't mean that it's
    brainless.  Case in point: go listen to some old Bugs Bunny cartoons,
    then try to write music that's as wild as what's on the soundtrack.
    
    						Brian		

    
    Re: Prince & Madonna
    
    "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the american
    public." 
    
    Personally, I grow tired of the premise that folks can do anything they
    want if it makes money. Probably this attitude that made throwing
    christians to the lions popular.  :+)
    
    jim

    
    	Prince's subject matter and persona are one thing and folks who
    	hate him seem to react to those things.  
    
    	Musically, however, is another thing.  His chord progressions,
    	harmonies (vocally, horns, key lines, etc...) are extremely
    	varied and challenging.  His use of dissonance alone is great,
    	in my opinion.
    
    	To judge him on "My Name is Prince" shows total lack of knowledge
    	of his musical catolog.  That tune is wild live and most definitely
    	loses something on record.
    
    	His new CD has tracks from funk to pop to jazz swing to hard rock.
    
    	Tom
    

    this might be the first note I ever started that got more than a dozen
    or so replies........contoversial subject!
    
    dawg

>  -< do we need a Prince bashing topic? 8^) >-
    
    You mean this one isn't it?  Sure looked like it from some of the
    replies...
    

    I kinda like Prince but hate to look at him.His "I'm sexy" attitude
    gives me,what we call in Scotland,the dry boke!I remember seeing a
    photo of him from about the Purple Rain era where he had his hands in
    the shape of a heart over his genitals and his tongue hanging out his
    mouth as is he was tying to lick his own ear.Thoroughly revolting and
    put me right off my lunch!
    
    
    
    FWIW.......I thought "when doves cry" was superb
    
                                                 Ian

    I never cared for Baroque music, for the same reaon I dislike Prince's
    music; I find both to be affectatious.  I also don't care for the
    overly treble mix on his recordings which grates on my ears.  Not only
    that, but I don't see the Funk leanings of his style as carrying any
    more weight than, say, the bubble gum music influence.  
    
    Yes, he marches to a different drummer, but not one I choose to follow.
    
    Sorry for the stilted way I put this, but I respect anyone who can
    record and sell as well as Prince, and don't want to slam him--I just
    don't care for his music, not even enough to know if I like the guitar
    parts.  
    
    Carl

    After I finished looking up the word, I agree, Prince is affectatious. 
    But I like his stuff anyway.

    For those of you lacking a handy dictionary, the word is basically an
    acronym for "poseur", except that it's an adjective instead of a noun.

    gh

>>>    I never cared for Baroque music, for the same reaon I dislike Prince's
>>>    music; I find both to be affectatious. 
    
    
    OUCH!!!!!

>    -< Greg, you're affectatious! >-
    
    Naw, surely if I were...SOMEONE would have been impressed by now!
    
    gh

    I guess that makes me the poseur, or is posuer also an adjective, and
    I'm a poseur person?
    
    Fun with words.  
    
    Carl

 
 Hmmm, it's becoming obvious that some folks have a proclivity towards
 sesquipedalianism within this conference.

 Lv

    Eschew obfuscation.
    
    Edd

     Geez Edd, you're confusing me !

    
    
    
      I think he insulted you.
                                8^)
    
    

From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.news.music,clari.news.interest.people,clari.local.new_york
Subject: Prince says retiring from studio recording

	MINNEAPOLIS (UPI) -- Rock star Prince said Tuesday he is retiring from
studio recording.
	According to a press release from his publicity company, Prince wants
to concentrate on live theater, film and nightclubs.
	``The future of the entertainment business not only embraces
innovation but demands it,'' said Gilbert Davison, president of Prince's
Paisley Park Enterprises.
	The announcement came a week after Prince ended a 12-city U.S. tour
that received mixed reviews. His latest album peaked at No. 5 on the
Billboard charts and then fell.
	Prince, 34, has released 15 albums in 15 years. Last fall, he signed
a $100 million deal with Warner Bros. A spokesman for Prince says the
musician's decision not to do studio work will not affect that
relationship. Prince's Paisley Park studio will continue to release
albums from more than 500 of his unreleased recordings currently in its
vaults.
	Prince is producing a reunion album for Earth, Wind & Fire. He also
has written songs for a musical-comedy film called ``I'll Do Anything,''
starring Nick Nolte and Tracy Ullman. In addition, he has scheduled a
European tour for this summer.

He is now "the entertainer formerly known as Prince"
with a funny, unpronounceable symbol for a name. That's
got to be the ultimate hype.