Conference napalm::guitar

Depends on what you mean by "archtypical rock".  Robert Johnson recording a 
song in the 1930s that had a tasty instrumental break.

Jimm

z

    The first REAL solo was on Dream Theaters latest release.
    :-)
    

    Sorry, I think the basenote's premise is completely false. There were
    lots of great rock solos in the '50's. Try "Hey Little School Girl" by
    the Jesters (1957), "Route 16" by the Diablos (1954) or even "Rock
    Around the Clock"
    
    Just another example of revisionist history :-)
    
    Danny W. 

    Re: .0
    
    The problem for me is that you dismiss both Chuck Berry and blues but
    that's really the basis for rock guitar as we know it today.  I don't
    know the P.J. Proby recording you mentioned, but what is it that you
    find "different" than other solos before it?  What about the Ventures,
    Shadows, Dick Dale, Link Wray, Duane Eddy, etc. or the rockabilly
    pickers of the 50s?
    
    Chuck Berry wasn't so influenced by piano players.  Go listen to T-Bone
    Walker and you'll hear the prototypes to a lot of Chuck Berry licks.
    
    A solo that to *me* represents a real breakthrough is Mike Bloomfield
    playing "East West".  This was what 66, 67?  Today it sounds dated but
    at the time noone was playing extended solos like that (in rock) never mind
    incorporating modal ideas and Indian scales in particular (the song is
    based on a bass riff in D mixolydian).  One thing that song definitely
    did was influence 99% of the guitarists living in San Francisco 8^) 8^)
    
    							Dr. Diminuendo
    
    P.S. "Ride My Seesaw" was from 1968.

    This strikes me as a problem more of "definition" than "historical
    research".
    
    By my own definition, I'd say it was Nicolo Paganinni.

    re .5
    
    Yeah, me too. A problem of defining:
    
    - what constitutes a "rock" solo (e.g. Rock Around The Clock? Tear It Up? The
    Thrill Is Gone?)
    
    - what constitutes a "solo" (e.g. the riff in "Shakin' All Over" by
    Johnny Kidd and the Pirates)
    
    Still, intriguing discussion all the same.
    
    Dom

    
    Mmm, well at least I've generated a discussion. Obviously though I've
    failed to articulate what I mean by a 'rock solo'.
    
    Let's take 'Rock Around The Clock'. Undoubtedly a memorable guitar solo
    but, to me, it is very jazz oriented and definitely not in the category
    of what I'd call 'Rock'. Let's take a few more examples. The Shadows
    (of which I am a HUGE fan. See earlier notes.) undoubtedly produced
    great solo instrumentals but they wouldn't fall into the category of
    'Rock Solos'. Robert Johnson. Well no one could deny the quality of his
    playing but would you really call it 'rock'? Same with Django Reinhardt
    or Chet Atkins and, at the extreme, Julian Bream or John Williams. But
    would you call this rock?
    
    It's just occurred to me that what I may mean has to do with datedness.
    If you relesed a rock record today with a Bill Haley, Shadows or Chuck
    Berry riff it would sound 'vintage'. I won't say dated because that
    has a negative connotation which is not what I want to say.
    
    The solo I referred to in the PJ Proby record, to me, wouldn't look out
    of place in a chart record today. It has a current feel, a use of
    sustain, a phrasing and, above all, fits into the feel of the songs
    like a glove (which is where 90% of 50s guitar solos failed miserably
    in my opinion. This excludes the top people such as Chuck Berry of
    course).
    
    Richard 

    Richard,
    
    I'm still not 100% sure of your distinction.  I still hear plenty of
    Chuck Berry (well, maybe filtered thorugh the Stones) in current
    recordings.  And blues solos certainly contain sustained lines and
    phrasing similar to rock solos.
    
    Maybe what you really are noticing is that the technical aspects of
    rock soloing didn't develop until the mid sixties British blues scare.
    Clearly the early "heavy" bands (Cream, Hendrix) were simply cranking
    out blues licks on most of their material.  The big difference was that
    where blues players tended to make short vocal-like statements,
    Clapton and Jimi got into going on for chorus after chorus like jazz
    players would. 
    
    In fact, my earlier mention of Bloomfield suggests that the real change
    was when players started looking to modal jazz like Trane, Miles, etc.
    for inspiration.  Compared to bop, the changes were stripped way down
    and the harmony was often more implied than stated.  Also, modal jazz
    tunes were often built on bass riffs rather than using a  walking bass. 
    This made it easier for rock players to listen to.  I don't think rock
    music really absorbed more than the surface aspect of modal jazz (it
    took Mahavishnu Orchestra to really nail it down using loud guitars)
    but certainly the San Francisco bands showed a love of blowing over a
    modal vamp.
    
    Another early solo that noone has mentioned "You Really Got Me" by the
    Kinks.  64? 65?
    
    Fitting into the feel of the songs?  I guess that's pretty subjective.
    Heck, a lot of stuf I hear today has solos that sound grafted on.  When
    tapping was the rage, that was about the most forced thing I ever
    heard, you know "Oh, my solos, better start tapping..."
    
    							Brian

    How 'bout Charlie Christian with the Benny Goodman sextet in the late
    30's?  He played extended solos with distorted tone: check out _Flyin'
    Home_ or _Sing, Sing, Sing_.
    
    I never heard any of Eddie Lang's recordings, but he predated Charlie
    Christian by about a decade.  Anyone heard him?

    Re: .9
    
    Be careful of those Christian solos.  Some of the LP versions, like the
    "Solo Flight" twofer on CBS, spliced together multiple takes to create
    extended solos *after the fact*.  Remember 78s only allowed for a few
    minutes per side, so solos tended to be kept short when recording. 
    It's certainly possible Charlie stretched out in live situations.
    
    							Brian

	As someone said back there...

	It depends on when this all started.

	Bo Didely said that some song of his ws the first to be
	called rock and roll.

	T Bone Walker was doing solos back in the 40's, BB King says 
	T Bone started it all.

	Benny Goodman and Lionel Hampton were doing it back in the 
	30's.

	When did it all start?

	tom

    Perhaps the title of this note should be "What was the earliest rock
    solo according to Richard Briggs".  ;-)
    
    Examining the roots of rock solos might be interesting, but I'm not
    sure there's much interest in finding the first one that rock solo
    according to Richard Briggs definition.

Somewhere around '66 or so there was a guy named Travis Wommack (or sumpin 
like dat) who played stuff that sounded really different from the standard 
fare.  I'm not sure I remember it clearly, but I think he played with a bit of 
distortion and sustain and some radical (for the times) speed licks.  His big 
hit was an instrumental called "Scratchy".  He had one more tune that got some 
air play and then faded into oblivion.

Anybody else remember this guy?

Bob

    I heard that Jeff Beck was one of the first ones to use
    a fuzz box/distortion with "a lot dialed in" for solos and 
    as a result this other dude heard it and the Rock guitar
    solo was never the same since.
    
    
    
    The "dude" was Jimi Hendrix                                 
    				

    Check out Cliff Gallup's solo in Gene Vincent' "Be Bop A Lula".
    
    Does that meet the criteria Richard, in terms of where it appears in
    historical terms and its sound in rock terms?
    
    Check out Scotty Moore on Elvis's early sides for Sun. He did exactly
    what Elvis did, took blues, country and gospel, rolled them all in to
    one and started a new era of rock guitar playing. 
    
    
    andy 
    
      

	The first rock guitar solo was the solo for Ozzy's "Crazy Train" ;-)

I think that the criteria is misleading. It appears to based on opinion
rather than any quantifying anything specific that I can see. If you go
back to the 1930's, some of the blues and jazz guitarists were playing
very modern guitar solos. Maybe you should listen to a more diverse set
of music, I think that much of what you are asking about was more an
evolution than a sudden occurrance - much of which probably was not mainstream
music (ie. getting a lot of airplay). Remeber, back in the early 1950's,
the song 'How Much Is That Doggie In The Window' was hot stuff, and people
like BB King made his name by being stocked in Juke Boxes (there was
something about BB King on the A&E channel about a year ago). 

						Jens
      

    
    I agree that this all a very personal thing. I suspect that .8, for me,
    really sums up what I think I'm trying to get at. To quote....
    
    "Maybe what you really are noticing is that the technical aspects of
    rock soloing didn't develop until the mid sixties British blues scare.
    Clearly the early "heavy" bands (Cream, Hendrix) were simply cranking
    out blues licks on most of their material.  The big difference was that
    where blues players tended to make short vocal-like statements, Clapton
    and Jimi got into going on for chorus after chorus like jazz players
    would."
    
    And of course this had a knock on effect into mainstream 'pop' as
    exmplified by that guitar solo in the Carpenters 'Goodbye to Love'. I
    mean WHO would have played a guitar solo like that in a middle of the
    road pop song before then? Well I say that but this is just my point,
    DID others actually do this sort of thing before the 'British blues
    scare' (see above)? Hearing the aforementioned solo (PJ Proby's Hold
    Me) says "Yes they were".
    
    Richard
    
    PS: Scotty Moore, now there's a rat hole! In my view his place in rock
    history is due to the fact he was breaking new ground (at least in rock
    and roll/pop) not that he was a particularly gifted guitarist. Certainly
    not by todays standards. A bit like Hank Marvin really in this sense.
    However, I suspect this is a different note.
                     

	I doubt very much whether you'll find a *first* rock guitar solo, as has
already been said, it's been evolving since the year dot. What I think changed
was the attitude towards the guitar itself, from being a rhythm/occasional solo
instrument it became almost the raison d'etre for a lot of bands. I can remember
hearing Strange Brew and Hey Joe for the first time and thinking "What the ****
was *that*?" Afterwards, I listened to earlier Yardbirds records and realised 
they'd got guitars in them!

		Ian G.

    I have to agree with .3 & .8 (if that's possible) to an extent.
    Factoids:
    	Jeff Beck's "fuzz" tone waas evolved out of experiments with
    "treble boost". All he *really* wanted to do was "dolby" the noisy
    front end in his rig.
    	The first song that was officially released as "rock" was Ticket To
    Ride by The Beatles. Reason - expected saales were *huge* & packagers
    got tired of wasting all that ink, so "& Roll" was dropped !
    	I don't think rock solos of today are derived from Chuck Berry, but
    from the "yakity sax" solos of the Coasters et. al. which are all obviously
    ripped off from 'Django, who learned everything he ever knew (even when
    he had all his fingers) from watching Paganini on MTV !
    	Try to find something in "rock" that's not ultimately "derivative".
    Is the question who did it first or who did it best before most people
    were aware enough to appreciate it ?