Conference napalm::guitar

    "Satch Boogie" is real cool.  Unfortunately, I can't play it.  %^)
    
    Dave

    I like playing "Midnight" by Satriani -- it's a head turner.
    
    
    Then there is the infamous "May I help you?" lick!  8^)

    What's the "May I help you?" lick?  

    When I go into music stores, I usually blaze thru "Cliffs Of Dover"
    from front to back.....funny though, nobody seems to recognize it!
    
    8^)

    What really happens is I pick up an axe, play a few chops and chords,
    and the sales guy walks up and recommends the deal on the beginner
    package!
    
    8^(                     

    >What's the "May I help you?" lick?  
    
    
    e--17--12--15---(4x's)
    b-----------------------17--12--15---(4x's)
    g-------------------------------------------16--12--14----16--12--14--12*
    d
    a
    e
        
    * = Grab whammy bar on this note and shake violently, like you're gonna
        rip the arm off the guitar!
    

    I always play Dance Of Maya from Mahavishnu orchestra's Inner Mounting
    Flame album. It gets blank stares.

    I've been playing that David Koresch tune, "Trouble in Waco" of late.
    Nothing like keeping current!

    Anything from the Wizard of Oz.  Also TV themes, especially the
    Flintstones or Gilligan's Island.

>    * = Grab whammy bar on this note and shake violently, like you're gonna
>        rip the arm off the guitar!
    
    I would think the salesman might regard that as a very UNCOOL thing
    to do in a music store.  ;-)
    
    I don't think there are any cool tunes to play in a music store.  ;-)
    
    	db

I think "Shave Anna Hair Cut" (ala - the ending of Ugly Kid Joes "Everything
About You") is too cool ...Esppecially when everyone in the store turns around
and goes "Two BITS!"

:-)

>>    * = Grab whammy bar on this note and shake violently, like you're gonna
>>        rip the arm off the guitar!
    
   > I would think the salesman might regard that as a very UNCOOL thing
   > to do in a music store.  ;-)
    
    Exactly!  Which is why they get off their butts to rush over and ask
    "may I help you?"

    re: .10
    
    He didn't call it "May I help you" for nothing!  Soon as they hear
    that, they're rushing to you and that phrase is ususally the first
    thing out of their mouth!
    
    Another thing that attracts their attention is shrieking feedback!
    
    Greg

    Woop!!  Notes collision!

    Anything that sounds remotely like Vernon Reid will also do nicely at
    getting them runnin towards ya.
    
    gh

    
    
    For those tragically unhip readers trying to figure out the "may I help
    you" lick - check out the Wayne's World video and study the music store
    scene closely.
    
    I expect you to pay more attention next time...
    
    

    However, if you spend money in the store this doesn't always work. The 
    store I spend bucks in is always handing me guitars and keyboards to play
    with. -) I play crappy but they just keep smiling at me and saying
    things like "We can order that in the left handed model if you like."
    
    I still gotta learn the "May I help you" riff!
    
    

You'll never impress anyone but your friends at a music store. If the
salesperson is a friend, that's great, but other people standing around
will probably consider what you are doing as 'typical music shop noise'.
My eight year old used to turn a lot of heads when she played drums at
Rice Music - She loved smashing the cymbals and pounding as hard as she
could (she was only 6 at the time) - this 'privlege' came as a result of me
dropping over $1000.00 there one afternoon, and after that, it was ok for
my daughter to entertain in the store. Play for yourself, test anything that
you want, but don't expect anyone to get excited about what you are doing.

							Jens

    re: Jens
    
    That's ok, you should hear Larry's (the owner) little girls abuse the
    drums in there...
    
    Greg

    RE: Greg
    
    Yeah - and she always has to tell me what she did at school that
    day.
    
    I know one place where the 'May I Help You Riff' won't work...  It's
    a local Colorado Springs music store, part of a large chain of at 
    least two places, with a name that implies that professionals purchase
    stuff there.  The guitar man won't come over and help you no matter
    what you do...  I know - I've been playing with him.  :-)
    
    jc (Who loves the TriAxis in there..)

    The pink panther theme-tune is a must.

 Smoke in the watter !!!!!!!
 
 Ouuarrfffff

    It's not love by Dokken , but in the laid back style of the 90's
    version of Layla. Its fun to play and it gives a good indication
    about how the guitar/amp sounds.
    
             Gonzo

    I think the coolest thing is to let the salesperson play the guitar for
    you and then base your purchase decision solely on that...
    
    
    
    
    NOT! (but I see this happen all the time, honest)

    Rick has got it -- Less is more!

.24

Greg and I had this happen to us once...  We got to sit there and listen to the 
kid riff away, complete with heavy-metal faces...Sha!

    Re: .24
    
    That's OK.  The salesman always plays some slap licks on the bass, and
    I don't know any so how else can I tell how it'll sound if I ever learn
    some?
    
    						Jim Bob

    re: .26
    
    Naturally, we both bought one of what he was playing.
    
    
    NOT!

    
    
    	How about walking in with a drill and playing the opening riff to 
    Poundcake....  I bet they'd love that!
    
    	I like playing the opening riff to "top of the world" ......
    
    John

    RE: Coop
    Maybe its cause I look stupid and confused or something, But just about
    everytime I go in to the the store you are a talking about, they put
    guitars in my hands ( A salesman actually did) when I go in there.
    They probably see someone they can push stuff on. You guys "look" like
    musicians, so they have no time for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Of course I hate the store and would never buy anything there!

    It's weird, when I go in that store, the guys in there always seem to
    say "Hi" and might joke around with me or something, but never seem
    real interested in trying to sell me anything.  Guess they read me
    pretty well, 'cause most of time time I go there I'm not interested  in
    actually buying anything from 'em.
    
    There was one guy that worked in there a few years ago that made me
    very angry when I was trying something out and I swore I'd never go
    back.  Of course, I have, but that person's no longer there (good
    riddance).
    
    Greg

    Your problem Greg is you already own everything! They know it.
    They are just going through the motions. :-)

    When I knew how to play, I used to mainly play my own stuff.
    
    Rusty_Mike (haven't had time to pick up the guitar in months)

    Naw, they have no clue.  To them, I just look like yet another homeless
    person trying to get warm...
    
    It's almost strange, they almost always talk to me, but never seem to
    try and sell me anything.  Perhaps I have "BROKE" written on my
    forehead, or maybe they see my wedding ring.
    
    gh

    re .29 and "Poundcake"
    
    ho ho ho, I *LIKE* this one.  I know just the music store I'd like to
    try it on too.
    
    Ok, in a serious vein, how about the head from "Surfin with the Alien"?
    The 1/2 step bend at the end of the first phrase is tres cool, nicht
    war?  It's easy and actually sounds like something (hey, if I can play it,
    anyone in this notesfile can).
    
    Of course, then they expect you play the rest of it :-(((

RE: Greg and his wedding ring

Whaaaaagagagagagagaaa!!!  I'm rollin' !!

jc

    When I go into a music store I just start taking guitars off the racks
    so then they fly over to me...If I play an axe in there I'll play my
    own stuff or sometimes I'll write something right there. It's funny how
    songs just come out by accident sometimes.  Also, I'm very picky when
    it comes to axes and amps so they'll be running around like crazy just
    to hook up everything!!
    
                                                stig
    

    
    FWIW, I never bother plugging a guitar in when I'm thinking of buying a
    new one. Call me ignorant but the vast majority of guitars all sound
    the same, its the amp/fx that makes the difference and I feel less
    'watched' and more comfortable assesing the feel of the guitar if I 
    don't plug in.
    
    -tony

    re. .39:  It's makes a difference to me.  Some guitars have different
    tone qualities and of course I won't buy a guitar without listening to
    the pickup and the sustain...All pickups sound different and the
    quality of wood on the body makes a difference as far as sustain..
    
                                                    stig

    I'm with Tony, I *never* plug in an electric guitar the first time I
    play it.  I play it unplugged and if it had a good feel and a nice
    acoustic ambience, and I'm in the market, maybe I'll plug it in.  As
    far as the pickups and the sound goes, if it plays good and has a nice
    lively response unplugged, you can change the pickups and make it sound
    the way you want.  You can get a good feel for the natural sustain of
    the instrument playing it unplugged too, without being fooled by the
    amp you're plugged into.  
    
    I've had a lot of guitars over the years, and have never found one that
    I liked unplugged that I didn't like when it was plugged in, and
    conversely, I've never found one that felt like a dog unplugged that I
    liked when I did plug it in.
    
    I ususally do try it out, just to make sure the electronics aren't
    messed up, but that's not the deciding factor for me, it's how it feels
    and plays unplugged, the rest can be fixed.
    
    Greg

    I sorta agree with Greg and Tony on principle, but you can get
    fooled.  As a rule, the heavier the instrument is, the tougher it
    is to tell.  Fer'instance I'd say it's nearly impossible to judge
    a Les Paul adequately without plugging in.  I've seen too many LPs
    that seemed like clunkers but came alive with the juice on.  With
    the lighter instruments I've found the correlation better, but even
    here an instrument can occasionally be too alive acoustically and sound
    mushy when amplified.
    
    I used to be an unplugged kinda guy when it came to demoing guitars,
    and basically still am, but nowadays I'll often still plug in a guitar
    that fails the acoustic test and sometimes I get surprised.
    
    /rick

    If I'm really just trying out a guitar, I'll usually do something
    offbeat by Hendrix, like "Little Wing". That generally impresses the
    sales people. Or I'll rip through the lead to "Layla" at double speed -
    that gets a few raised eyebrows. When I do the rhythm *and* lead parts
    at the same time, heads really turn.
    
    - Ram

    
    Well, I usually play the lead guitar parts to a Holdsworth tune with my
    left hand, a Mozart piece with my right hand, a little jazz ditty with
    my nose and scratch my arse with the tremolo, all at the same time
    whilst smoking a ciggie, drinking coffee and making a phone call.
    
    ZZzz....

    How cliche'...
    
    ;^)
    
    Edd

    I find ripping through the Peter Yarrow lead from "Puff The Magic
    Dragon" causes people to stand around asking "How does he *do* that?"
    "And with only two hands!"

    You can get the same effect on the keyboards with "Heart and Soul"...

    there *are* no cool songs to play in the music store I shop at....the
    sales people there are such freakin snobs, they wouldn't be caught dead
    admitting they were impressed by a customer.....
    
    sheesh.....

    MacDuff's is a good place to go sit down and play because the 
    sales people are:
    
    1. laid-back enough to let you play what ever you want for as
       long as you want
    
    2. Not so technically proficient that they won't occasionally
       be impressed by what you do (and tell you so).
    
    Hence, I give my business to MacDuff's. When I get enough money to
    buy a Taylor, I'll bop on down to MacDuff's.
    
    Places I hate to sit down and play:
    
    1. Kurlan's - "have you decided whether you would like to buy 
       that guitar", asked in a tone of icy self-righteousness
    
    2. Wurly's in Worcester (out of business now) - everybody who
       worked there was too cool for me to deal with
    
    - Dave (who's never even HEARD "Eruption", never mind knowing 
      how to play it)

    Re: .48
    
    When did Wurlitzer close up shop in Worcester?  News to me...
    
    							Brian

    re .-1
    
    it's been at least a year since I was in that area, and the store
    was out of business then.

    Re: .50
    
    No way, I've been there in the past year...
    
    						Brian

    Hey Ian,
    
    You gonna tell 'em about the shop clerk with the quote "Now *this* is
    how that guitar's *supposed* to be played"?
    
    Greg

    A good friend of mine used to live right down the street.  It has been
    closed at least since October of 1992.

    oh well, years aren't as long as they used to be :-)

Play anything by Dream Theater and you'll floor the masses...  Now to learn those
toons!!!

:-)

     What you gize be smokin'......I was just in Wurly's the other
     day checking out this dead mint '60-something Large Fender
     Bandmaster Cab.....for $289....sha...'zif. I just called them
     5 minutes ago to see if they still had it and "Duncan" answered
     the phone. With the black panels where the plate glass windows
     used to be just makes it look closed.

     Neal

    re Greg,
           nope,that aresehole isn't worth worrying about.The attitude of
    music store dudes are a lot to be desired.
    
    
    
    
                                                staynz

    I couldn't believe the audacity.  Simply incredible, the worst attitude
    I've yet heard of.
    
    Greg

    Wait a sec!   Rob Rothberg and I were on the PHONE with Wurly's in
    Worcestor about two weeks ago trying (in vain) to get help with a piece
    of equipment.  I'll bet they didn't "close" but rather "moved".
    
    I hate to diss the place (cause a friend of mine is now VP) but nearly
    everytime I go in there I get "attitude" from the salespeople. 
    That ranges from just not getting any attention at all, to "you can't
    touch this", to a sorta I-cant-be-bothered thing.
    
    Maybe it's because I don't "look" like a serious musician or something.
    
    All I know is that nowadays, I walk into Daddy's and everyone says hi,
    asks how the band/recording is going, tell me about any new neat stuff
    they got, and treat me VERY well.
    
    Some might say "yeah, because you spend so much money there".
    
    I say "So what?".
    
    I might spend it other places if they'd treated me half as nice as the
    treatment I got at Daddy's before I ever spent a dime there.
    
    And to be honest, I really don't think it is because I spend so much
    money there.  The people there just seem friendlier.  Of course,
    someone who goes in and tries to dick them around may not get the
    same treatment as me, but I've found that when I treat them well, they
    treat me well.
    
    OK, enough campaigning for Daddy's - I just really greatly appreciate
    having a so good a relationship with a store.  It runs so counter to
    all my other experiences and it's important to me.

Depends who's there, I've been in every local area shop and have gotten
totally different approaches. My 1st time in Daddy's would lean most people
to never return, I went again and now I've cancelled the 1st trip from my
mind (man, did I return fire on that guy too - he was po'd when I finished
with him - and I'm very easygoing).

I now have at least one contact person at every place, which works out
super now. Sometimes I buy, sometimes just looking, but always making
small talk and jokes to keep the 'old friendship' going  ;^)

As far as what to play, I usually tell them I'm checking amps for
distortion and sustain, then belt an A and just turn it up till my
local 'friend' tells me to cool it.  8^)

Droid

    I have my gripes about Daddy's, but the people at my local one are
    always friendly, and I buy almost nothing there and sure don't look
    like a rock musician, either.
    
    Dave

    I've always had cold shoulders at Daddy's and I never got treated well. 
    But, I heard recently that the staff at Daddy's (Salem NH) is all new
    and treat you good.  I don't usually go there anymore cause I'm married
    and broke.  Good thing I bought my gear before I got married...I think
    I will make a visit this week to check out how the place is now.
    
                                                              stig

    Yup, the Salem, NH, store is my local one - can't vouch for the others.
    
    Dave

    .60 
     
     C'mon, how about the details of your, um, "experience" with the 
    salesperson? 
     
     
    Tom
    (who is in the mood for a 
     good story)
    ---
    Dictated with Dragon Dictate.
    

     
    
    
            Re. 60/(Droid)
    
    
            Well....?
    
    
    

Sorry, just saw this (haven't been in notes too much). Okay, maybe I over
played it but here's my first trip to Daddy's in Shrewsbury.

I am after a used P-bass, nothing but a P-bass will do, and I want one built
in the USA for under $500.00. In I go and proceed right to the wall of 
guitars. Over strolls the sales guy and he catches up to me before I reach
the wall and asks me if he can help. 

I tell him what I'm looking for, and he politely says I'll never find one for
that price that's not beat. I see one on his wall, it's pathetic and I check
the price and it's nearly $600.00. I asked him why it was so high, he says
it's a USA P-bass (and a spiel about it's great sound, though I couldn't see
how it could even be played).

Now he immediately asks me if I checked out the new Peavy basses, costs much
less that any used P-bass. I told him again what I was after, and he says "Yea
but you got to check this out man". I said "No thanks, I've got another stop".
He then tells me I'm not leaving 'till I hear this, and he's getting kinda 
anxious and I sensed it and said "I don't want a Peavy, thanks anyway".

This set him off, to paraphase "I'm so sick of people knocking Peavy and they
are just as damn good if not better than any other guitars out there and you
listen and then tell me it's not...".  Ah, now I'm edged but I'm kinda frozen
as to what to do. He plugs this thing in and starts slap-bassing at 100 mph.
He was quite fast, sounded okay, but I can't stand that kind of bass (again,
why I wanted a P-bass - low-end / carrying bass!).

He looks up with all intent, figuring he proved his point. I nod my head, and 
thankfully he stops playing. I said: "You will never, and I mean NEVER, sell
me a bass playing that SLAP SH*T.  Bye."  This hung him up, and I made the 
exit in time.

Went next door to MacDuff's (where I should have went first), no lie, I bought
a '83 Precision Elite in nice shape for $450. And for the purists, I took out
the active pickups and put in stock P-bass pickups...cuz that's what I
wanted 8^), a standard P-bass sound. Still have it, I luvs it!

Droid

    Re: .66
    
    Hey, droid...
    
    Daddy's Shrewsbury has a P-Elite in there (or did recently) beat to
    crap and still with a $500 tag on it...in case you want another one  
    8^)  8^)  Funny, I just had mine appraised for tax /insurance
    purposes and the blue book sez $425...dream on!  Brought it to the gig
    Friday in place of the Steinberger...hmm, think it's going to the gig
    tonight too <sigh> I'm in love again  8^)  8^)
    
    Re: playing in stores
    
    Saw a dude today, had just bought a nice guitar at MacDuff's, but was
    back trying an SG as he had changed his mind.  Anyway, he kept blasting
    through some metalloid licks, stopping every four bars or so to make a
    real boner, then shout "Sh*t".  Wonder if he does it on the gig, too
    8^)  8^)
    
    							Jaco Ramone

>    Anyway, he kept blasting through some metalloid licks, stopping every
>    four bars or so to make a real boner, then shout "Sh*t".  Wonder if he
>    does it on the gig, too
    
    Maybe it was part of the song...
    ;^)
    

>    Anyway, he kept blasting through some metalloid licks, stopping every
>    four bars or so to make a real boner, then shout "Sh*t".  Wonder if he
>    does it on the gig, too
    
    > Maybe it was part of the song...
    
    There's an ELP song that begins that way.

If I said "sh*t" on every screw-up I made playing out, people would think it
was part of the backup vocals  8^)

    Totally off the subject, but the drummer I've been working with
    has a headset mike.  We're currently training him to NOT SWEAR
    everytime he wings a stick.  :-) ...and he's been practicing his
    twirlies too... Cracks one up doesn't it??

    Not being a guitar player, I've learned to just say "sh*t" as soon as
    I pick up an axe in a music store while wiggling my hand as if I've got
    a wrist problem that just came back. It makes up for no chops...
    
    I have discovered a couple "head-turners" for when I'm trying out new
    keyboards. Tuesday I tried out the new E-mu "Vintage Keys" module at
    Manny's by pulling up a B3 and doing the intro to Donald Fagen's "Walk
    Between Raindrops". "Aja" is a good one when trying piano SGU's...
    
    Edd

    I just read through 2690. .66 answers my burning question of how
    MacDuff's (or anyone) can stay in business with Daddy's close by.
    
    FWIW, I haven't had bad experiences at Daddy's in Shrewsbury, but then
    again, I'm not very demanding when it comes to such stuff. It seems
    that in the (few) cases where a customer makes it *very* clear what he
    wants, the sales people should be more cooperative. I almost never know
    what I want on any given day. In case the sales staff gets too
    annoying, I have a long list of stuff that I know they don't have, &
    "I'm not afraid to use it."
    
    In keeping with the theme of this note (does *anyone* remember that),
    I've noticed that the playing skill of the average person trying out a
    guitar or amp has gotten a lot better in recent years. I think the big
    leap came after Van Halen. There have been setbacks (the great Guns 'n Roses
    scare of 1991), but technique seems to be marching on.
    
    Paul 

>    In keeping with the theme of this note (does *anyone* remember that),
>    I've noticed that the playing skill of the average person trying out a
>    guitar or amp has gotten a lot better in recent years. I think the big
>    leap came after Van Halen. There have been setbacks (the great Guns 'n Roses
>    scare of 1991), but technique seems to be marching on.

FWIW, I disagree. As technology plays a greater and greater part in the "cool
sound" of many pop artists, what *I* hear in record stores is that more and more
of the "guitar star wannabees" know how to play the really *simple* licks that
still sound cool with the right FX. More an improvement in techno-literacy than
musical ability, in my book.

What I'd like to see is a separate room, fully soundproofed, for *all* amp
tryouts, with a waiting line and time limit. All diddling in the showroom would
be over headphones, period. This would let folks who've lost their hearing
already do their masochistic thing without driving others out of the store or
interfering with- preventing, even- others' attempts to evaluate synth sounds,
the tone of acoustic instruments, or other more, ah "subtle" aspects of music
than sheer volume.

(Oh, BTW, I'm not holding my breath waiting for this to happen...)

Bob
 

    That's funny, just the other day I was thinking, "Wouldn't it be great
    to have 'tryout rooms' in music stores ?", when I was trying to figure
    out how these guys stay in business.
    
    Paul

    It's not uncommon for stores to sequester drums, keys, PA or even
    guitars into a separate room with sliding doors to isolate the noise.
    I haven't been in the Boston Daddy's for years, but they used to have
    an isolated amp room.  The downside I guess is that if you don't have a
    sales droid in the rooms, you can't keep tabs on what your customers
    are doing with the gear (like smoking it!).  
    
    							Brian

>    It's not uncommon for stores to sequester drums, keys, PA or even
>    guitars into a separate room with sliding doors to isolate the noise.
 
Mebbe where *you* hang out. That's the first I've heard of such a thing from out
here in the 'boonies, 'cept for stereo gear shops. Glad *some* folks have it so
lucky, anyway!

    There are three stores that I think of here in the Springs, just off
    hand, that have amps in a seperate room with a sliding door you can
    close while crankin stuff a little bit.  They all have glass doors so
    they can see ya, but that's no big deal to me (it's their loss if they
    wanna look at my ugly mug).  One of the others that doesn't will
    occasionally set you up in the back (kind of a big closet, actually) if
    you crab about it enough and seem serious about trying something out.
    
    Greg

    > I just read through 2690. .66 answers my burning question of how
    > MacDuff's (or anyone) can stay in business with Daddy's close by.

    Hey Paul,

    For what it's worth, I just bought my brand new strap locks at 
    MacDuff's for $2.95 less than than the same brand at Daddy's
    in Shrewbury! I know they were *brand new*, MacDuff's didn't have
    them the previous week (in other words, they were not on the shelf
    with an old price for years thus making them less expensive).

    It's easy to stay in business next to Daddy's, IMO they've never
    been the lowest price in town. Last time I had checked, my Boomers'
    stings were less at MacDuff's !! Lower prices for same product will
    get my business most of the time, and that's the bottom line.

    I was in Daddy's a couple of weeks ago and the previous person is gone.
    I have a new attitude now and stop at both places every time I hit the
    area. But I just can't give that much glory to Daddy's, they aren't
    the only bargain of the music world 8^).

    Droid

I'm not slamming Daddy's, I've bought a fair amount of gear there (and at good
prices). My experience, though, is that their sticker prices are nothing to
write home about, but they WILL price match (or pretty close) *if* you know the
fair market value for what you're looking at.

I keep on thinking of folks on the street with raincoats and watches:

Q: "How much is it?"

A: "How much ya got?"

Never been to MacDuff's, but it sounds like they run it less like a car
dealership: just put the prices on and sell at that price... what a concept!

Bob

    The one time I was in MacDuff's, everything seemed too high priced &
    the assortment of stuff they had wasn't that interesting (to me at the
    time). Daddy's has these periodic "sales" where they mark selected
    items down, sometimes a lot. One of the most common things I look for
    in music stores is good prices. Now that Hamel Music in Chelmsford is
    under new management, they're tough to find. I also tend to get annoyed
    when I find that I know more than the salesman about a piece of gear
    that I feel like I don't know anything about.
    
    Paul 

    I think that *any* song from the newest Metallica album has to be the
    most overplayed song in a music store! Every time I go into a store
    there's some 15 year old torturing "Nothing else matters"......
    
    Mike