Conference napalm::guitar

    People (other than guitar players) don't really care about guitars,
    they care about songs.  Neil Young is one of the great songwriters, IMO.
    
    Peter

    I liked Neil Young because before he narced on me, he would buy enuff
    drugs from me to finance my Twinkie habit.....
    
    David (I luv Hostess) Crosby

    
    	I hope to become a band leader for a Neil Young only cover band
    	someday.  We will be the Shocking Stinks.
    
    	-Buffalo Stinkfield
    

    RE: -1
    
    Sorry Pat, you've already surpassed Neil's axe playing ability
    level.....you're now too good!
    
    8}

    Why I dig Neil:
    
    1.  When putting together his country band he hired James Brown's bass
    player.
    
    2.  He heard Nils Lofgren playing guitar and hired him to play piano
    instead.
    
    3.  He was once signed to Motown.
    
    4.  He got really rich but didn't turn into Rod Stewart.
    
    5.  He likes feedback.
    
    6.  He won't play with Steve Stills anymore.
    
    							Brian

    Neil  Young was my main guitar influence between my Segovia period
    and my Yngwie Malmsteen period!

    
    Who is Neil Young?
    
    Chris

    >>Neil  Young was my main guitar influence between my Segovia period
    >>and my Yngwie Malmsteen period!
    
    Buck,
    
    which period are you in now?  |^}
    
    Dawg (who hasn't had a period yet)

    >>Neil  Young was my main guitar influence between my Segovia period
    >>and my Yngwie Malmsteen period!
    
    >Buck,
    >
    >which period are you in now?  |^}
    
    
    I'm in my "emulating black female gospel singers wailing traditional
    spirituals in praise of the Lord" phase (see p_n)!

    
    Buck,
    
    On guitar?   You *are* a god.....;-)
    
    
    guy

    Neil Young's songwriting is extremely touching and thoughtful.  Even
    though he's a sloppy guitar player and has an odd voice, I still enjoy
    his renditions of his own songs.  Kind of gives someone like me hope
    for my own performing.  He's a real inspiration!
    
    Greg

>>    I'm in my "emulating black female gospel singers wailing traditional
>>    spirituals in praise of the Lord" phase (see p_n)!
    
    Sweet Honey in the Buck???

    Neil plays the most beat-up-yet-still-functional Twin in the world.
    That has to be worth something.
    
    Dave

    
    	According to the GP article, he plays the most beat up, functional
    	_Bassman_ in the world.  He has it fitted with some rotary controlled
    	knob memory unit which fits on top of the Bassman over the knobs.
    	He picks a setting, some whirling happens, and presto!  ALL ANALOG
    	BABY!
    
    	Cortez the Killer!!!!!!

    Bassman?  I thought it was a tweed Deluxe?  So what the heck is it
    anyway?  I wanna know who's using that Vox head on the cover of "Raging
    Glory"...man, that's my idea of a garage band!
    
    						Guy Stevens

    
    	Hey Buck - so you're playin' like Terri sings, eh ??
    
    	Terrific!!
    

    True, Neil has put out some crap over the years (Trans,Arc,shocking
    pinks) but he has also put out TONS of great music.  His lyrics are
    amoung some of the best I've ever heard. Yeah, He's no Yngvie on guitar
    but we have enough Yngvie's in the world anyway.   He's dabbled in just
    about every type of music. I give him credit for trying, even if the
    result isn't always good.  A friend of mine is a total Niel junkie and
    has every album he's ever put out (probably close to 50) and I'm
    familiar with most of it.  I'd say 90% is great and 10% is crap.    
    His new album "Harvest Moon" is really good.  He's a great guitarist
    for biginners to aspire to be, then in about a year when they get
    better than him, they can aspire to be as good as someone else.
    

    (he says, expanding his chest to sustain the oncoming blows)
    
    		Neil Young is the King of rock `n' roll.

    I also thought it was a Deluxe or maybe a Showman, but it's definately
    not a Twin and I didn't *think* it was a Bassman.
    
    gh

    In the good 'ol days, I used a Bassman with a 2 X 12 cab and a '62 SG.
    Turn it up.......soooo sweet.
    
    8^(

So why won't Neil play with Stills any more?  

 he sings "Mexican American" and "My Scrotum" in an even nicer voice than Cheech.


  Chong.

    
    
    	Neil and EC are great!  Cooper's heroes suck buffalo meat!
    
    	just teasin'.
    
    	Ah, who cares what anybody _else_ thinks as long as _you_
    	dig 'em, right?

	Neil Young is great. Neil pushes the democratic ideal right
	in your face. He's proof that you can make a living playing
	your music no matter what *ahem* "serious" musicians think
	about your playing. There is no aristocracy, no membership
	card required for Rock & Roll.

	So lets hear 3 cheers for Neil... and Lou Reed, Keith
	Richards, Thurston Moore, Angus and Malcolm, Reeves Gabrels,
	Arto Lindsay, Pete Shelley, and Jerry Lee Lewis!

    Why I like Neil Young:
    
    "Nowadays Clancy Can't Even Sing"
    "Flying On The Ground Is Wrong"
    "Burned"
    "Do I Have To Come Right Out and Say It?"
    "Out of My Mind"
    
    Why I dislike Neil Young:
    
    *everything else*
    
    Danny W.
       

    
    I like Neil young because he does what he wants and is not swayed by
    the music industry, the demands of the music consumers, or technology.
    
    He defined his own style, and he plays from the heart.  I dislike about
    65% of his songs, but I still consider myself a fan.....
    
    Dave

    
    well i liked Hank to Hendrix on SNL. As a guitarist, it's tough to
    match him mistake for mistake, but once i tried really hard and got
    it!
    
    Hey, for writing the same songs for over 25 years with the same voice,
    fugly face, and "unique" guitar ability - and still get paid for it
    even, wins my admiration!
    
    bob

    I hate Neil Young, I really do.  And I usually gleefully add to the
    Neil bashing in here.  But I was watching highlights of the Bob Dylan
    tribute the other night on TV, and I thought Neil did a creditable job
    playing lead on one tune, I forget which one.  His playing was loose
    and rough, of course, but I found it to be not without, how shall I say, 
    music.
    
    Needless to say, I was surprised.  He reestablished himself in my eyes
    later in the show, of course.  But now I wonder...
    
    Dave  (with apologies to /rick)

    hey mon, no apologies necessary.  Was it really "Watchtower" you liked
    though?  That was the only tune I saw.

    
    	I also caught a NY solo - it was towards the end when everyone
    	was on stage.  I think it was Knockin' on Heavens door.  Clapton
    	played at the beginning and then after 1 verse from Dylan who
    	pretty much decided to stop singing.  Someone (GE Smith?) pointed
    	to Neil to take a solo and he did.  Personally, he brought the
    	energy level up - certainly compared to Eric's noodling.  He only
    	took one verse, kinda lost it at the end, but did sound good for
    	most of it.  Big smile after too.  I think he was thinking that
    	he just blew Eric off the stage... ;^)
    
    

    I don't remember what tune it was, I was just doing some housework and
    my son was playing a video game and he stopped; the channel was set to
    3, which is one of the local (Boston) public stations (WGBX?).  I saw
    Neil and didn't pay much attention to him, figuring something *good*
    would be on soon, but his solo caught my ear and surprised the heck out
    of me.  It was not the finale where everyone's on stage, but like the
    finale he was twitching and jumping around like a lunatic, as if he
    were really *feeling* it (which maybe he was), but the notes were quite
    melodic and he actually did hold notes and bend strings with some
    (uncharacteristic?) sensitivity.
    
    So now I have to watch the whole thing again sometime to make sure I
    wasn't hallucinating.  (While doing housework?)
    
    Dave

    Let me say that I think Hendrix' version of "Watchtower" is the best
    single ever made and that I mentioned previously that I like Youngs'
    early songwriting, but not much else about him, so I was surprised to
    find that I thought his rendition of "Watchtower" was terrific,
    including his solos.
    
    Sorry Rick :-)
    
    Danny W.

    I've entered the bizarro notesfile!
    
    :-)(-:

    >> I've entered the bizarro notesfile!
    
    "Submitted for your approval......."
    
    Rod Serling

>    So now I have to watch the whole thing again sometime to make sure I
>    wasn't hallucinating.  (While doing housework?)
 
    Maybe *you* weren't, but Neil probably was...

>    Maybe *you* weren't, but Neil probably was...
    
    You're right... musta been an off night for him.  %^)
    
    Dave

    Neil did Tom Thumbs Blues & Watchtower and was in the group ending

    maybethe tune you're talking about is "my Back Pages"? Neil did 
    a nice Neil-type solo in that tune.
    
    BTW, Clapton blew away everybody with the slow blues version of
    "Don't Think Twice". He still roolz :-)

     >BTW, Clapton blew away everybody with the slow blues version of
     >"Don't Think Twice". He still roolz :-)
    
    
    toldya Buck......
    
    
    |*}

    I've seen Clapton on a couple of shows fairly recently doing "blues
    jams" and while I generally liked what he played (more or less,
    considering the context), I *hated* his tone.  Really thin, shrill, and
    kind of buzzy.  He needs the sound he had with Cream...
    
    gh

    >>He needs the sound he had with Cream...
    
    No Greg, *we* need the sound he had with Cream.  EC ditched that
    tone/style decades ago, and yes, I miss it too.
    
    8^(

    I'd prefer EC to have the tone/style he had with Derek and the Dominos.
    
    Trash the rack.  Stick with a strat, but with single coils, not lace
    sensors.  Plug into a Fender and turn it up.
    
    					Jim

    re: EC tone ...
    
    The tone he had on the Dylan show sounded pretty fat to me; same
    tone as he had last August at Great Woods. Lace Sensors/Soldano
    Head. Sounded great. "Thin" was the sound he had from the "Just
    One Night" late 70's - early 80's period. 
    
    - Dave

I recall that the Layla album was recorded with the strat and a Pignose amp.
It seems Eric was into a minimalist thing at the time.  A lot of factors go
into "tone" and the way you play is probably the biggest.

Jim

    >>I recall that the Layla album was recorded with the strat and a Pignose
    >>amp.
    
    I've always heard it was a strat and an old Fender Champ.
    
    Jim 

>    No Greg, *we* need the sound he had with Cream.  EC ditched that
>    tone/style decades ago, and yes, I miss it too.

    I still hear elements of the style in what he plays now, it's just that
    his tone sucks.  I saw him on that Apollo show a few weeks ago and his
    tone was squeeky and thin.  Albert King hit a single note and blew
    Clapton away completely.  Albert's tone was *roolin*!
    
    I also remember something I saw with Clapton sitting in with the Stones
    a couple of years ago.  Once again, I liked what he playd, but his tone
    stunk.  Keef's tone was good though for the same show.
    
    I didn't see the Dylan thing, so I can't comment on his sound then.
    
    Greg

    Clapton needs a TriAxis...
    :-)

Pignoses didn't exist when Layla was recorded (69-70), musta been the champ.

Clapton's tone has been thin for years...

dbii

    I just heard that Dylan tune on the radio for the first time and
    Clapton's guitar is screaming! Straight ahead blues rendition of a great
    tune played with more passion than I've heard from EC in a long LONG
    time. Anybody that says he's a has-been should listen to this track and
    then try to say it with a straight face. He does about 5 short,
    one-verse solos and takes every one of them to the limit. No rack BS,
    just AMP-UP-LOUD sound.

    Inspired that night, I guess.

    Neil Young is sexy and has a nice smile.  I wish all the men in my age
    group were as cool as him.
    
    I love his music and his voice.  I think he has written some extremely
    good lyrics, and I don't see anything wrong with his guitar playing
    either.  I don't play the guitar, or know anything about it, but I went
    to the Neil Young concert at Great Woods this summer and I went to the
    DECjam in September, and, well....I know which I liked best!
    
    Lorna
    

    ouch...

> I don't play the guitar, or know anything about it, but I went to the Neil 
> Young concert at Great Woods this summer and I went to the DECjam in 
> September, and, well....I know which I liked best!
  
Lorna, I'm crushed!!! Stabbed right through the heart!  8^)

(This is all Dave Hickernell's fault... you just had to invite the ladies in 
this conference, didn't ya! 8^)

alan

P.S. Welcome to GUITAR! 

    Really, it'd be one thing if she said "Well, I saw Steve Vai the
    other night, and I saw DECjam, and I know which I liked better..."
    
    :-)

    re .50
    
    When did my wife change her name to lorna. sheeeezzzzzzzzzz...that was
    cold...and I didn't see either one....the frost killed my roses!
    
    Pc
                                           

    Yes, Alan, I invited them over from Music, but honest, I had no idea
    there were any Neil Young fans in the group.  Now Lorna, you have to
    expect a certain amount of give and take when you so forthrightly
    advance the notion in this conference that Neil is a good musician,
    because he's not.  Sorry, it's not just my opinion, it's a fact.  You
    may find him attractive in some way, that's OK; we're very tolerant of
    everyone's predilictions - db and Steve Morse, Mikey and Steve Morse
    (what *is* this?), Bulldawg and Clapton, Chris F. and Clapton, Brian
    and Danny Bonaduce (yes, we know about that one, too), and you and
    Mick - but when talking music, don't bring Neil into it.
    
    Dave
    
    P.S.  Oh, and welcome aboard!

    
    
    	Aaaah, don't let these high-falootin' guitar players get to you,
    Lorna. Neil Young's okay by me. You can't write as many good songs
    as Neil has and not be a "good musician". Me, I'd rather listen to
    Neil's playing than Yngwie's. But so what? We can't agree on
    everything! Which reminds me-- I don't know if I'd call Neil Young
    attractive.... my wife thinks he looks like a serial killer...
    
    Brad
    

    re .52, that is not to say that I didn't enjoy the DECjam.  I did!  I
    just liked the Neil Young concert more, that's all.  :-)
    
    re .55, but, Dave, if Neil Young plays the guitar so bad, then how come
    it sounds so good to me?
    
    re .56, no, Neil doesn't look like a serial killer.  He has a very
    sweet smile.  He's a nice person, and sexy, too.  And, talented! 
    (can't forget that!)
    
    Lorna
    

    I know that you're always supposed to accentuate the positive.
    
    With that in mind, I will pay an homage to Neil's guitar playing:
    
    	   His singing enhances and "complements" his guitar 
    	   playing
    
    ;-)	
    

    
    	My SO thinks he looks just like Jack Nicholson when he breaks
    	thru the door and says "here's Johnny" in "The Shining".
    
    						Red Rum
    
    

>    re .55, but, Dave, if Neil Young plays the guitar so bad, then how come
>    it sounds so good to me?
    
    You got me.  But if you like it, don't let people like me dissuade you!
    
    Dave

    Neil has that sorta "neanderthall, been dead for 2 million years"
    look....he's attractive in a "Darwin way".....
    
    go figure......
    
    Lorna, if you like Neil, then by golly, that's your privelege, i don't
    care!  Welcome to GUITAR!
    
    steve

    OK, I want Lale and Lorna to know that I am the LAST guy on earth to
    make sexist comments so please know that I'm joking here...
    
    But all I know is this... we "let" women into this conference and
    all of a sudden we're discussing Neil Youngs "looks" instead of
    his guitar playing.
    
    	db

    
    It's not that they're women -- after all, our other female participants
    don't feel compelled to comment on Neil's appearance...
    
    They just haven't caught on to the differences between GUITAR and MUSIC
    - musicianship is a little more important here.
    

re: .63

>    They just haven't caught on to the differences between GUITAR and MUSIC
>    - musicianship is a little more important here.
    
Gimme a break!  You guys talk about *all kinds* of non-guitar stuff 
in here!  Neil Young's looks are at least as relevant as Steve D'Andrea's
daughters. :-)

-Hal

>>Neil Youn  8looks are at least as relevant as Steve D'Andrea's
daughters.
    
    Maybe as relevant, but thank goodness, not comparable!
    
    DawgeeDaddy
    
    RE: discussion on Neil's looks versus his playing:
    
    Let's do an opinion poll, which is worse, listening to Neil or looking
    at him?
    
    Gene Sixkill

    
    	Well, to me, Neil's solo in that live Dylan tribute song with
    	McGuinn, Harrison, Petty, etc... blows away Clapton's.  Maybe
    	Clapton picked the strings "better", but Neil's solo had tons
    	more fire, energy, melody, and feel.  He blew Clapton off the
    	stage, big time.
    
    	Also, his one note solo in Cinnamon Girl is perfect.  If you've
    	ever done that tune with a band, you'd know what I mean.  The
    	whole band goes into overdrive and gets into that riff.
    
    	Tom
    

    >Also, his one note solo in Cinnamon Girl is perfect.
    
    Gahd, let's hope!
    
    Edd

re: .67
>                      -< We ain't talkin' skill here... >-
>
>    >Also, his one note solo in Cinnamon Girl is perfect.
>    
>    Gahd, let's hope!
    
Don't confuse "best" note with "hardest" note.  The one note solo
is essentially just an inverted pedal tone, a musical device that's
been used by composers since at least Bach's day.

-Hal

Speaking of Neil Young, I just heard that his video 'Live Rust' is being
re-released after being out-of-print for the past 10 years. I remember
seeing this in the theatre and it was awesome! And I love the album! Can't
wait to nab it on video...

alan

>Don't confuse "best" note with "hardest" note.  The one note solo
>is essentially just an inverted pedal tone, a musical device that's
>been used by composers since at least Bach's day.

    Don't go getting all technical on us, Hal!  After all, this *is* the
    Neil Young note...
    
    Greg

    And best of all...he's a Model Railroader.  That automatically makes
    him a cool dude.
    
    Grins
    Pc
    
    

    
    Many technically advanced guitarists don't have "art" or "soul" in
    they playing, they just repeat the fast scales they have played 
    thousand times before. And makes a guitarist only fast, but nothing
    else. Neil Young does not belong to that boring club. Neil Young is
    MUSICAL.
    
    
    Hannu

    
                    Neil Young Perfect Solo
  
  Tempo = 120
______/|_______________________________________________________________________
_____/-|________________|______________|____________|_____________|____________
_______|_____O__________|_O____________|_O__________|_O___________|_O__________
______/|________________|______________|____________|_____________|____________
_____/-|________________|______________|____________|_____________|____________
       |


                    Neil Young covering Joe Satriani
  
  Tempo = 125
______/|_______________________________________________________________________
_____/-|________________|______________|____________|_____________|____________
_______|_____O__________|_O____________|_O__________|_O___________|_O__________
______/|________________|______________|____________|_____________|____________
_____/-|________________|______________|____________|_____________|____________
       |
    
    Edd

    
    re -1:
    
    Sure thing. Good music is always simple! How many Young records have
    you heard? 
    
    Btw. Satriani can play, but the songs are cr*p.
    
    
    Hannu

    > How many Young records have you heard?
    
    Is this a trick question?
    
    Edd

    
    	Don't pay attention to Edd.  He only likes cold, sterile,
    	complicated music typed into sequencers one keystroke at
    	a time...
    
    	Even worse, he doesn't like da blooze!!
    
    	Wutta Royal Scam!!
    

    	 >   Don't pay attention to Edd.  He only likes cold, sterile,
         >   complicated music typed into sequencers one keystroke at
         >   a time...
    
    
        ...as opposed to outta tune and sloppily timed ditties played over
        3 chords.
    
        Edd

    
    	you're talking about Neil, not me, of course...
    
    

    Absolutely!!
    
    Your sloppily timed 3 chord wonders are always in perfect tune!
    
    Edd

    re: last few......
    
    Jeez you guys, I'm keepin' my head down sos I don't take no schrapnel!
    
    ZING, POW, BANG!

    Tom and I have this discussion about twice a week. Often over beers
    in my studio...
    
    No need to duck.
    
    Edd

    
    	And as I'm sure you all have noticed, it's VERY difficult to
    	win a "discussion" with Eddwardd... 
    
    	So, I could use help from humans who play real instruments,
    	whether you can tune or not!  ;^)
    
    

    
    ref. .63
    
    John, dear, shut up 'n' eat yer marshmallows.
    
    Ooops, where did the marshmallows go?
    
    It was sort of like your trademark.
    
    Lale

    
    
    Lale, you're just a little bit behind...
    
    Hey, Edd, could you tab out some more NY solos?  I just about have that
    last one mastered...reminds me a lot of Cinnamon Girl...
    
    

    > ...some more NY solos...?
    
    Sure! Try this one from an entirely different tune!

  
  Tempo = 120
______/|_______________________________________________________________________
_____/-|________________|______________|____________|_____________|____________
_______|_____O__________|_O____________|_O__________|_O___________|_O__________
______/|________________|______________|____________|_____________|____________
_____/-|________________|______________|____________|_____________|____________
       |
    
    Edd

    re .69, oh, thanks for mentioning that Alan.  I'll be looking for it. 
    I just love both watching and listening to Neil.
    
    Edd, non-musicians don't necessarily care how technically perfect music
    is, or how difficult a piece is to play.  All we care about it is if we
    like how it sounds, and I love how Neil Young sounds.  That's all there
    is to it.  Besides, I think we all know that a lot of making it in show
    business is being able to write original songs, with good lyrics.  The
    day one of you guys can come up with an entire album that is even
    remotely as creative (both lyrically and musically) as After The Gold
    Rush or Harvest, then maybe you have a right to criticize Neil Young! 
    :-)   And, don't forget he was only in his early 20's when he came out
    with those albums, a high school dropout from Winnepeg.  Maybe that's
    what separates the artist from the technician, eh?  :-)
    
    Lorna
    

    
    
    	Well, I'd just add that sloppy, out of tune 3-chord songs are
    exactly what rock & roll is based on. That's what the first rock and
    roll records sounded like. That should be an essential part of anyone's
    rock and roll diet.
    
    	I suppose if you're "just" into classical or jazz you can dismiss
    3-chord rock & roll. Segovia always said that the electric guitar
    is incapable of anything musical. But if you're even a fringe rock
    fan, dismissing "junky" rock & roll is just like dismissing the value
    of electric guitars-- it doesn't make sense in a rock & roll context.
    
    
    Pontificatin' Brad
    

    > So, I could use help from humans who play real instruments...
    
    OK, but let's take it to some other note. I can't see cluttering up
    the Neil Young note with a discussion about music.
    
    Edd

    re .87, yup, in an interview I saw with Mick Jagger, he was asked what
    it takes to make rock'n'roll, and he said, "Energy and 3 chords."  I'm
    not a musician, so I don't really understand what he was talking about,
    but I thought it sounded pretty good!!  :-)
    
    Lorna
    

???>    Btw. Satriani can play, but the songs are cr*p.
    
    Yes, but they are "emotional".
    
    BTW, is "nausea" an emotion?
    
TOMD>    	So, I could use help from humans who play real instruments,
    
    OK, I'll help you out Tom:  Edd is RIGHT!
    
    ;-)
    
    

    re: all this technique vs. emotion vs. ??? stuff
    
    Look... Neil Young does write music that "reaches" people. 
    
    I think MY problem with him is that he doesn't push on or expand
    the field of music.  Sure, he says something with his own unique
    voice, and that makes it valid.  But just as some of you "simple is
    good" people are turned off by flashy technique, some of us "I like
    technical music" types are turned off by music that is devoid of
    any ambition to bring something new to the field of music.
    
    Something new could be breaking thru the boundaries of technical 
    limitation, breaking the rules of composition, a new method of
    playing an instrument, etc.
    
    The reason why I can't get excited about Neil Young is that there
    isn't any innovation or ambition in what I hear from him.
    
    So my point is, maybe some shredders fall short in the "emotion"
    category or whatever, but Neil Young falls short in the innovation
    category.
    
    OK, let's say that Satch's stuff is "cr*p".  As someone who listens
    for innovation, I'd say "well at least he tries to expand the field
    of music, Neil doesn't".
    
    If I disagree with people in here, what I probably disagree with is
    that any one category is somehow more essential than the other.
    
    	db
    
    p.s. If I can give Young credit for one advancement to the field of
         music, it's that you can have an absolutely terrible, off-key
         voice and still fit into a group of three other guys with
         incredibly good voices/harmony (Crosby, Stills and Nash).  ;-)

>    Sure, he says something with his own unique
>    voice, and that makes it valid.  But just as some of you "simple is
    
    	yes, yes, his voice certainly is *unique* ;-) ;-)
    
    					- Jim

    >    Btw. Satriani can play, but the songs are cr*p.
    
    HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! 
    HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! 
    HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! 
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    I have a confession:  I've tried many times to cop Neil's phrasing, 
    technique, and tuning and just couldn't cut it.  I either need to start
    drinkin or try it now that I'm extremely rusty and unpolished.

    I love the sound of Neil Young's voice.  I, also, love the lyrics to
    many of his songs.  I think his lyrics are his real strong point.  
    
    Personally, I always thought Crosby, Stills & Nash were boring without
    him.  
    
    BTW, Neil's Bridge School Benefit is going to be held this coming Sat.
    in California.  I wish I could be there.  I saw it two years ago.  And,
    for John Stewart's benefit, especially, I'd just like to say that Neil
    had on this really sharp, long off-white coat.  Very cool looking.  :-)
    
    Lorna
    

    >I have a confession:  I've tried many times to cop Neil's phrasing,
    >technique, and tuning and just couldn't cut it.
    
    My last visit up north I was talking with Fred Abatelli and his
    bro-in-law, Dane.  We were discussing how unique George Harrison's
    leads were in the earlier Beatles days, and how sometimes his bends
    were a little off key, and how *hard* it is to copy that sound!
    
    sd

    I like Neils music - He's a great lyrcial writer, and presents his 
    style quite well...  A guitar god, he's not, but he's got some great
    tunes.  
    
    jc (A closet CSNY, NY, CSN, S, CS etc...Fan)
    
    ps - I love Sugar Mountain...What a cool tune...

    
    Regarding db's comments a few notes back...
    
    
    	I'm not a big Neil fan, but I'm not a Neil hater; there's just alot
    about his "type" of songwriting that I really like, even if it's not
    Neil himself that I'm into. For example, I really love The Replacements
    and Paul Westerburg; you could put them under the same gerneral
    "umbrella" as Neil Young-- sloppy, band-from-the-basement, simple
    sounding tunes.
    
    	Anyway...
    
    	I take issue with the idea that Neil hasn't tried anything new;
    he's taken many different approaches, particularly during the 80's
    when every record he released was in a different genre. He released
    an "electronic" album (REACTOR), a straight country album (OLD WAYS),
    a rockabilly album (the "Neil Young & The Shocking Pinks" one),
    a blues album (the one with "This Note's For You" on it), plus a
    few others. 
    
    	Now you can say that all these albums STILL sounded like Neil
    Young... I wouldn't disagree with that... but it certainly showed
    his flexability, versatility, and just how well his "limited" style
    fits into a multitue of styles. It also shows that he HAS explored
    different territory and tried to expand what he does. It was hardly
    the "same old thing"-- in fact, Geffen Records was so p*ssed off
    they tried to ditch him for making "non-commercial" records, saying
    that he was straying too far from his "normal" sound, in effect.
    
    	Honestly, I didn't care for most of those records... I don't
    care for alot of Neil's records, actually... but I respect his
    taking on the challenge of tackling all those different styles and
    seeing what he could contribute to each genre. I happen to love
    Satriani, and I think his songs are the best example of "flashy
    playing-meets-melody", but if you put Satriani's catalog up against
    Neil's, it's clear to me which artist has the most varied work.
    Granted, Joe has anout 1/5th as many albums as Neil, but still,
    when Satriani releases a country album, a blues album and a rockabilly
    album, then I'll look at him with the same respect as an all-around
    musician I allot to Neil.
    
    
    Brad
     

    
    
    Yeah, I think a lot of us accept him as a reasonably good songwriter. 
    But, I don't think he has a lot to offer as a guitar guru -- which
    might be why he takes such a rash in this conference.
    
    

    re: .86
    
>    Edd, non-musicians don't necessarily care how technically perfect music
>    is, or how difficult a piece is to play.  All we care about it is if we
>    like how it sounds, and I love how Neil Young sounds.  That's all there
>    is to it.  
    
    I think you're probably taking Edd a bit too seriously, I don't think
    he's hung up about heavily technical music at all (although there are
    several people in here that do have that kind of bias).  :-)

>    Besides, I think we all know that a lot of making it in show
>    business is being able to write original songs, with good lyrics.  
    
    Original songs, good sound, yes...good lyrics, absolutely NOT!  Have
    you listened to the radio?  I'd have to say that probably 90% of the
    songs that are big sellers have absolutely horrid lyrics.  This is
    clearly not a requirement for selling a lot of records.  I tend to
    agree with Mick Jagger, as quoted by someone a few notes back, a lot of
    energy and a simple song go a long way with most people.
    
>    The day one of you guys can come up with an entire album that is even
>    remotely as creative (both lyrically and musically) as After The Gold
>    Rush or Harvest, then maybe you have a right to criticize Neil Young! 
    
    <Flame on>
    
    I'm sorry, but this *always* seems to come up when someone who plays
    music is critical of another musician and it always makes me mad.  Why
    is my OPINION about someone else's music contingent upon the relative
    quality of the music that *I* happen to write or play????  This is
    TOTALLY IRREVELANT!  I KNOW WHAT I LIKE AND MUSIC I WRITE HAS NOTHING
    TO DO WITH IT!
    
    If that were the case, then a non-musician would have no right to state
    *ANY* opinion of any musician's music, since they clearly can't create
    anything to compete with it.  Music is NOT A COMPETATION!  Why do you
    think that my negative opinion of someone's music is any less valid
    because I'm incapable of writing anything as "good" as they do?  So
    WHAT if I suck at writing songs, or performing them??  I can still
    appreciate what someone else does, and I still know what I like!
    
    Just because someone makes music themselves they don't deserve this
    kind of CHEAP SHOT personal insult every time they say they can't
    appreciate someone else's stuff.  I think the reason it bothers me so
    much is because it just *keeps* coming back up.
    
    <flame off>
    
    Sorry, but that specific statement is a BIG pet peeve of mine.  I've
    heard it a million times and I don't believe it has any form of
    validity whatsoever.
    
    BTW, if you think I'm just saying this because I have something against
    Neil Young, you're dead wrong 'cause I like a lot of his music.  He's
    not the greatest guitar player or singer around, but it doesn't matter
    'cause he makes some music I like.  One of my great loves happens to be
    good songs that are played with a lot of conviction and energy and Neil
    does a lot of stuff that fits that description.
    
    re: Brad 
    
>    	I'm not a big Neil fan, but I'm not a Neil hater; there's just alot
>    about his "type" of songwriting that I really like, even if it's not
>    Neil himself that I'm into. For example, I really love The Replacements
>    and Paul Westerburg; you could put them under the same gerneral
>    "umbrella" as Neil Young-- sloppy, band-from-the-basement, simple
>    sounding tunes.
    
    Allriiiight, another Replacements fan!  I especially love their early
    stuff, great songs, total energy.
    
    Greg

    RE: Greg.....
    
    It's a natural reaction, I think...dont know why, tho.  It's a kind
    of defensive posture, I guess.  I can remember defending one of my fav
    guitar players in the face of someone who said that "he sux".  My
    defense was addressing the specific semantics of the comment and I 
    challenged this EC hater's guitar playing ability against EC's.  I
    guess I didn't feel this guy was "qualified" to appraise EC's ability,
    which I see differently than a comment about the music he plays. Now if 
    the guy had said, I don't like EC's music, I would (should) have said, 
    "oh, ok."  I'm sure I'm guilty of the defensive reaction thing, 
    tho.....depends on the mood; you know us blues guys....real moody!
    
    Make any sense?
    
    dawg

    re .102, well, it certainly makes sense to me, since I did it, too!
    
    It's just that I've loved Neil Young for years and it seemed like he
    was taking quite an undeserved trashing in here, mean comments, like he
    looks like a serial killer and can't play the guitar, rather than
    simply saying they don't care for his music.  And, since he's not here
    to stick up for himself, I guess I just felt I had to do it.  He,
    himself, probably couldn't care less what the people in here have to
    say about him.  But, he's one of my all-time heroes, and I wanted to
    defend him.  
    
    Lorna
    

    
    Since I am another Neil Young fan, I wanted to add my two cents.  I
    have been listening to some of Neil's electric stuff (on CD and video)
    and I have to agree that some of it is a bit sloppy and needlessly
    heavy on the feedback (but, I still like it for the "mood".  Cortez off 
    of Live Rust is one of my favs).
    
    However, I'd like to discuss another aspect of NY's guitar playing, his
    way with an acoustic.  A few back someone mentioned Sugar Mountain, and
    that's a good example, simple yet perfect for the song.  I've tried to
    copy his acoustic style for years, and even though I get the chords and
    picking pattern right, it just doesn't ever come close to what he
    sounds like Live.  I've been trying to get Needle and the Damage Done
    down, but I haven't a clue.  I think Neil's acoustic playing is one of
    his real assets.
         
    Al_just_a_folky_at_heart
    

    Brad,
    
    >    Regarding db's comments a few notes back...
    
    I read thru the whole note without realizing how this regarded my
    comments.  I came to the conclusion that you misunderstood my comments
    and I think I know how:
    
>    	I take issue with the idea that Neil hasn't tried anything new;
>    he's taken many different approaches, particularly during the 80's
>    when every record he released was in a different genre. He released
>    an "electronic" album (REACTOR), a straight country album (OLD WAYS),
>    a rockabilly album (the "Neil Young & The Shocking Pinks" one),
>    a blues album (the one with "This Note's For You" on it), plus a
>    few others. 
    
    While those "genres" may be "new" to Neil, they are not "new genres".
    
    I guess you could say that the point I was trying to make was that
    he hasn't created any new genres.
    
    Are the only genres that are possible the ones that have already been
    done Brad?  Isn't there something you can admire about people who
    attempt to invent them.  Isn't it reasonable for me to say that
    I respect other people more than Young because they try to create
    new genres, while Young just rehashes old ones.
    
    I believe that there are tunes I could play for you by Morse, Eric Johnson,
    Satch, Dream Theater (among other shredders) and ask "what genre is
    this?" or "what other tune would you say is similar to this" that
    you simply could not answer both questions.
    
    If there's a Neil Young tune like that, I haven't heard it.
    
    Now please remember, I am NOT saying any of this makes Morse a better
    musician, or Johnson a better musician.
    
    What I'm saying is that these guys TRY to chart new territory and
    "go where no man has gone before".   That is what *I* listen for,
    it's part of what makes me admire a particular player.   And, the
    bottom line is, that Neil Young I don't hear or see that in Neil
    Young.
        
>    Neil's, it's clear to me which artist has the most varied work.
>    Granted, Joe has anout 1/5th as many albums as Neil, but still,
>    when Satriani releases a country album, a blues album and a rockabilly
>    album, then I'll look at him with the same respect as an all-around
>    musician I allot to Neil.
    
    FWIW, Steve Morse usually covers ALL those genres on EACH album, as well as
    providing tunes that simply can not be classified into any existing
    genre.
    
    But we all knew that Morse was a better musician/player to begin with.
    
    Well... most of us.
    
    	db

    re .105, but, of course, if you were to play these new genres for me,
    there is a chance that I just wouldn't like the sound of them, in the
    same way that I don't like the taste of some foods, while I do like the
    sound of Neil Young's rehashing, as you call it.  
    
    I don't really care whether somebody is charting new territory when
    they record a song or not.  All I care about is whether I like it or
    not.
    
    Lorna
    

    
    db:
    
    
    	I was under the impression that you were saying that Neil Young
    had been more or less doing the same thing since day one and you were
    turned off because he hadn't tried anything different. I was trying
    to show examples of how his work has varied over the years. 
    
    	You're right about the fact that Neil hasn't created any new
    genres of music. That's true. Then again, how many artists really
    have? A small handfull, I'd say.
    
    	I've always been a middle-of-the-road Steve Morse listener; I've
    never liked the Dregs, but Morse really impressed me after "The
    Introduction" came out. It's true that Morse does display a wide
    range of styles & genres on his albums. I really like that. But
    while he's excellent at straddling genres, I wouldn't say he's
    "created" any new ones. Just 'cuz I can't "pigeonhole" an artist
    into a genre doesn't neccessarily mean they've created a whole new
    genre for themselves.
    
    	I'd say that The Beatles created a new genre (or two), maybe
    The Who with "Tommy" and Graham Parsons with the "Swwethearts of
    the Rodeo" album; you could say Hendrix created a genre...
    
    	Though they didn't exactly "create" the genre, The Sex Pistols
    certainly were the at the core of a genre. There are plenty of
    people who I'd say were "masters of their genres", like Chuck Berry,
    James Brown, Led Zeppelin, Nirvana... I'm a huge Todd Rundgren fan
    and I'd say he's mastered some genres (like pop songwriting) and
    come close to creating others (the "A Capella" album, the new "New
    World Order" CD-I). But very few artists can be honestly credited
    with mastering a genre, let alone creating it.
    
    	
    	So just because Neil Young (or Steve Morse) hasn't created any
    new genres, I can't really hold it against them. 
    
    
    	I don't know why I'm defending Neil Young... I could pretty much
    take him or leave him. This is too much energy for a lazy butthead like
    me to spend on Neil. What bugs me more are bands like The Moody Blues, 
    who really have been doing the exact same thing (concept elevator
    music) LP after LP for 30 years. (Now there'll be a flood of defensive 
    Moody Blues replies!)
    
    
    All in fun,
    
    Brad
    

    re: db
    
    FWIW, I also interpreted the reply of your's that Brad was responding
    to to say that Neil didn't have any variety to his music.  Thought it
    was kind of an odd statement, since his stuff has more variety of
    attempted styles to it then most artists.  If you meant that he hasn't
    done anything truely innovative, well, perhaps that's true, but there
    are actually very few artists that really have.  Most just play what
    they play and don't cover much new ground.
    
    Greg

    db, just a guess here, but you haven't really heard any of the albums
    which Brad referred to, have you.  I could be wrong, but this is my
    impression based on your comments.  To my ears, Neil Young pushes
    further and in more directions on some of these albums than Morse,
    Satch, EJ or Dream Theater ever have.  Just my opinion of course.
    
    That said, I really don't think you want to elevate "genre inventing"
    as a major criteria for evaluating a guitar players anyway; we'd have
    almost no one to talk about in here :-)
    
    /rick

re: Neil not inventing genres

Oh, I dunno about all that. I think a good arguement could be made that Neil
helped launch the whole country-rock movement (which eventually progressed
into the Eagles/Poco/etc.). Also that he was a precursor to the whole
'grunge' movement going on now. You could maybe even make add in the 
singer/songwriter movement as well (James Taylor/Gordon Lightfoot/etc).

alan

    re .110, Alan, I agree.
    
    (what a surprise, huh?)  :-)
    
    Lorna
    

    This topic is getting really interesting, in spite of
    (or because of) the inclusion of female noters, ;^)
    covering everything from looks to licks.
    
    Just wanted to mention that I once made a female
    (NY fan) colleague very happy by performing
    Southern Man as pure NY parody. The more nasal
    it got, the better she liked it! With an overdone
    thump-thump beat from After the Gold Rush and Harvest.
    
    BTW, I tried the solo transcribed a few notes back last night,
    but should it be done _with_ or _without_ emotion?
    
    And one more thing - some of Norway's most popular rock musicians
    have a fun band called The Young Neils.
    
    Henrik 

    Mr. Young, somebody must like his stuff to make him stay in business
    this long.
    

Article 10677 of rec.music.makers.guitar:
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From: MJOHNSON4@delphi.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar
Subject: Neil Young: Great Guitar Player?!?!?!?
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 93 05:20:18 EST
Organization: Delphi Internet
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Message-ID: <931104.19218.MJOHNSON4@delphi.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: delphi.com

What do you think of Guitar magazines choice of selecting Neil Young as one
of the ten best guitarists of the past ten years?
 
Controversial?  I expect...

    Should he update his sound and become "Nine Inch Neils"?
    
    Edd

    
    Thrash Industrial Young.  omigod that's a frightening thought.
    
    	y'know, we could probably pull it off, though :-)
    
    					- Jim
    

    re .115, well, I just have to ask.  I can't keep pretending to know who
    this person is!  :-)
    
    *Who* is Steve Morse?  Has he ever been in a famous band, or had any
    hit records?  Where is he from?  I assume he's a guitar player.  Does
    he sing, too?  I've never heard of him before.
    
    
    Lorna
    

    Steve Morse is a famous guitar player, but he's famous only among
    guitar players.
    
    He won the "Best Overall" guitar player category in Guitar Player
    magazine's poll for 5 straight years and they gave him a sorta
    permanent honor in that category and ruled that no more votes for
    him would be taken.
    
    Btw, I never voted in that - I don't like such "contests".  The point
    is that his talent is highly recognized by other guitarists, although
    not Mike Heiser.  ;=)
    
    He was the leader of the Dixie Dregs, and since about 7 years ago
    has been doing albums mostly with a trio.
    
    He doesn't sing - that is, he can (I've heard him), he just "doesn't".
    His thing is instrumental music.  (We can only hope that Joe Satriani
    eventually comes to the same conclusion.)
    
    As to whether or not you'd like his stuff, I really think it depends
    on how adventurous your ear is.  If you are upset when people do not
    give you verses, choruses and bridges that are clearly marked for
    your convenience, then you'd probably hate him. 
    
    On the other hand, if your ear is open to hearing non-standard music
    forms, chords, rhythms, or even if you just like hearing someone who
    can blaze on the guitar like no one else, you MIGHT like him.
    
    	db

    Thank you for taking the time to tell me who Steve Morse is, db! :-)
    
    Lorna
    

    Well, in honor of this discussion, Sam and I butchered a number of
    Neil's songs while jammin last night.  Fun stuff to play!
    
    re: Edd

>    Should he update his sound and become "Nine Inch Neils"?
    
    HAHAHAhahaaha!
    
    re: Lorna

>    *Who* is Steve Morse?  Has he ever been in a famous band, or had any
>    hit records?  
    
    As Dave said, he has his own band currently (the Steve Morse Band), and
    formerly played in The Dregs.  To my knowledge neither of these bands
    have ever had anything even remotely approaching a "hit".  I seriously
    doubt if they've ever gotten any radio airplay.  It appears that the
    only audience they attract is musicians, since they play highly
    complex, technically difficult music that's inaccessable for most
    people.
    
>Where is he from?  
    
    I believe he's from Florida, but I'm convinced that the guy isn't human
    anyway, so there's really no telling.  No *human* could play the stuff
    he does.
                   
    But...THIS is the Neil Young note, for more info on Steve Morse, see
    note 506.
    
    Greg

    > To my knowledge neither of these bands have ever had anything even
    > remotely approaching a "hit".  
    
    Despite the fact that one album was released with a sticker on the
    package containing the words "Contains the hit 'Crank It Up'", they
    have never had anything remotely close to a hit.
    
    The Steve Morse band did have two videos in "ultra-light rotation"
    on MTV once for about 36 hours.
    
    > I seriously doubt if they've ever gotten any radio airplay.  
    
    Correct.  Only time I've heard them on the radio is when their music
    is used as background.  Interestingly enough the "Maynard Outdoor
    Store" had several ads that used Dregs tunes.
    
    > It appears that the only audience they attract is musicians, since they
    > play highly complex, technically difficult music that's inaccessable
    > for most people.
    
    Well said.
    
    It's somewhat rare that you find a non-musician that likes Morse but
    they do exist.
    
    >>Where is he from?  
    
>    I believe he's from Florida, but I'm convinced that the guy isn't human
>    anyway, so there's really no telling.  No *human* could play the stuff
>    he does.

    I also think he's from another planet, but the story goes that he spent
    his early years in Michigan (I believe) and moved to Georgia when he
    was about 14.
    
    	db

re: .120

>    Thank you for taking the time to tell me who Steve Morse is, db! :-)
    
Lorna, db *always* has time to talk about Steve Morse! :-)

-Hal    

    Steve Morse is from Krypton.  Simple.  I don't care for his style 
    much, but there is no denying that the guy is a god on the guitar. 
    :-)
    
    jc

    Happy 48th birthday to Neil Young!   We love ya!  :-)
    
    
    Lorna
    

    We?
    
    Edd

    re .126, well, I can't be the only one.  I didn't buy all those albums
    myself!  :-)
    
    Lorna
    

    C'mon Edd, at least Neil doesn't play the blues!

    He will when he learns the other two chords...
    
    Edd

    RE: Glh ... Neil could very easily be misconstrued as playing da blooz
    since he is the king of the "one note wonder" guitar solos!

    I thought the guy from the Ramones was the KING of the one note solos!
    
    Gh

    But Greg, YOU ARE THE GUY FROM THE RAMONES!!!!  At least you look like
    him...
    
    ;-)
    jc

    I do NOT LOOK LIKE THAT DUDE!!!!!!!!
    
    gh

    Yes you do...
    :-)
    
    Who told me that anyway??
    
    ;-)

>    Who told me that anyway??
    
    I believe it was Mike Ferris (remind me to thank him for that...)

    
    Hey, Neil's birthday was even mentioned on Entertainment Tonight (no
    mention of 15 min., one-note feedback solos by the way).
    
    Way To Go Neil!
    
            
    

    
       Neil Young...along with 2 other silent partners, just bought the
    LIONEL TRAINS corp. for an unspecified amount.
        Young, a big fan of the model train hobby has tried for years to 
    get Lionel to adopt several of his controllers designed for handicapped
    people. One of Young's sons has Cerebral Palsey and has extremly
    limited motor skills yet can fully operate an Extremly complex 5,000
    square foot layout alone, due to the designs of his father developed
    over the last few years. The Neil Young layout was recently featured in 
    the periodical "CLASSIC TOY TRAINS" and was recognised as one of the 
    largest and most stunning layouts in the country. It is in a converted
    garage out-building on the Young's property.
        Neil Young was reported as saying,...Hey' I got tired of the
    run-around and other crap from Lionel and their scum lawyers, so I
    bought the company. Now we will build what I want.
    
         I'm starting to like Neil Young lots more since I read this
    article.
    
    -john

    
    I saw a piece on this on the MTV news!I never knew he had a son never
    mind an interest in model trains.
    
    
    I felt really bad for his son.
    
    
    						ian

    
    	John, did you send that to Skip?
    
    	He might be interested in that.  Or maybe not.
    
    	8^)
    

    Neil Young has been working off and on with Lionel over the last
    couple years on his concepts for making model railroading accessible
    for the handicapped.  It appears he wasn't satisfied with the rate
    of progress.  Lionel has struggled to make a profit for the last
    decade (its hard to compete with the cheap imported HO stuff).  As
    noble has Neil's cause is, its doubtful that the company could 
    justify much of an investment.  I doubt Neil will have that problem...
    
    

    Actually, model trains are all the rage with baby boomers. They
    are enjoying a resurgence in popularity, and the people buying
    them have got enough money to afford the best. The latest setups
    include wireless remote controls with multiple channels so you
    can control several trains simultaneously. 
    
    Wait a minute, isn't this the guitar notes file?
    
    Mark

    who are all these baby boomers with money? where are they getting
    it? I can't even spring for enough bucks to buy Buck's Classic
    50 :-(

    Look at prices paid for luxary cars, and how many of them you see
    on the roads, and this tells you that a lot of people have big
    bucks. As a matter of fact look at prices paid for vintage
    gutars. When Gruhn or Mondolin Bros take posession of a really
    nice pre-war Martin, 59 LP, or Pre-CBS Strat, they have absolutely
    no problem whatsoever finding a customer for it. 
    
    We're in the wrong business, guys!

    FWIW: I've gotta believe those expensive cars
    are leased by people who really can't afford them!
    
    Maybe Lionel will introduce a model train leasing
    program?  
    
    Fortunately to me it seems like the price
    of good guitars is going down? Not like
    cars. . . 
    
    Dave
    

    > It appears he [Neil Young] wasn't satisfied with the rate of progress.
    
    Is he ever satisfied with anything?  Only thing I've ever seen him do
    in an interview is complain.
    
    I think his complaining is what inspires his art.
    
    And his voice almost perfectly compliments it:  sorta like what you'd
    imagine Andy Rooney's singing voice might be like.

    >Is he ever satisfied with anything?  Only thing I've ever seen him do
    >in an interview is complain.
    
    Is this the kettle calling the pot "black" or what? ;-) (I won't go as
    far as to say that I bet you sing like Mickey Rooney, Dave...)
    
    Getting back to the original thread (i.e. Neil Young's activity in aid
    of the handicapped), I've also heard that, as a diabetic, he's invested a 
    lot of time/money in helping fellow sufferers (can't remember the details, 
    sorry).
    
    Apparently, he also suffers from epilepsy.
    
    Dom
    

    You have never ever seen me complain in an interview.  ;-)
    
    Sincerely,
    
    	The Kettle

    
    Didja ever wonder why db sounds so much like... oh nevermind... :-)
    
    -b

    >You have never ever seen me complain in an interview.  ;-)
    
    ...nor have I ever seen Neil Young complain in a public notesfile ;-)
    
    Dom (who's never seen db and Malcolm Muggeridge in the same place ;-))

>    ...nor have I ever seen Neil Young complain in a public notesfile ;-)
    
    And be thankful that you probably never will - one of the things I've
    heard him rail on totally cluelessly about is computers.
    
    Remember, this is the guy who thinks that converting music to bits and
    bytes causes it to lose its soul.   Think he's seen that Star Trek
    episode about whether or not you lose your soul after you've been
    transported the first time?
    
    Apparently the "soul" can preserved as voltage, or magnetism, vinyl
    grooves (and other such pure forms of storing soul) but not as bytes.
    
    C'mon, so the guy is prone to more than a bit of clueless raving.  Why
    not admit it?  Doesn't mean he isn't a great musician (not that I think
    he is but that it's not my place to declare that he ain't).
    
    	db

      >So he raves - it shouldn't bug you.  The music is what matters >-
    
    But it certainly doesn't bug *me*...any more than I would expect it to bug 
    you to discover that Steve Morse cheated at cards! Remember, until you
    "intervened", the conversation had been about Neil Young's commitment
    to handicapped people, and in particular, his son.
    
    >And be thankful that you probably never will - one of the things I've
    >heard him rail on totally cluelessly about is computers.
    
    For a guy who's made albums like "Harvest" (which just happens to
    probably my least favorite NY album), I'd say that this only goes to
    increase his credibility! 
    
    As for Neil Young being a great musician (or not), I tend to regard him
    and Steve Stills in the same light as Lennon with respect to
    McCartney; Stills and McCartney are *great* musicians...but Young is (and
    Lennon was) a genius. As Brian Rost once pointed out (probably in this
    note), just look how laughable CSN became when Young left the band.
    He'd always written the best songs anyway.
    
    Dom
    

    >I view your unwillingness to just say "Yeah, ok, he's always railing
    >on about something" as a pretty good sign that it does bug you to
    >hear ME say it.
    
    Well, you'll just have to take my word for it then! At most, you could
    say that I'm mildly astonished that you invariably seem to bend over 
    backwards to find something negative to say about artists (dare I say
    musicians!) who don't meet with your approval. Even when the subject in
    question has nowt to do with their musical abilities. (Kind of like if I
    was to butt in with "Steve Morse looks like a turkey!" every time his
    name came up in this conference!)
    
    >How producing an album like "Harvest" lends any credibility to his
    >knowledge about computers is beyond me.  You lost me there.
    
    Correction: his *lack* of knowledge about computers (as you yourself
    pointed out). Well, lets just say that the atmosphere of that album is
    about as rural as they get...where maybe John Zorn is the other end of
    the spectrum!
    
    >Perhaps we can combine our two views by saying that Neil Young neither
    >improved nor harmed the band.  They did good albums before him and
    >with him.   
    
    Well, we're on subjective ground here (anyone else care to
    contribute?). I like the first CSN album a lot...but I still think they
    improved no end when Young joined. Maybe his contribution to Buffalo
    Springfield was even more critical...like the rest of the band were
    practically there to make up the numbers!
    
    Dom
    

    Not wishing to perpetuate this distraction from the original
    chain of Neil's philanthropy, I've responded in the Neil Young 
    bashing topic, 2633.
    
    Did we actually create a bashing topic for Neil Young BEFORE a non-bashing 
    topic???
    
    	db

    I'll try to start a new rathole:
    
    As a native of the soy bean belt of the Midwest, I take offense
    at the notion that rural America and computer literacy are
    mutually exclusive.
    
    Hayseed Jim ;^)
    
    P.S.
    Actually, NY's ramblings on the evils of digital recording strike
    me as a bit off-base.  On the other hand, Neil's amp tech swears
    Neil can tell the difference when his amp is running on 117 VAC 
    vs 120 VAC, so maybe he *can* hear the difference between a good
    analog and a good digital recording.  I don't know.
    
    Of course, I think even DB will agree that the best synth piano
    patch can't replace the experience of playing a 9 foot Steinway.

    >As a native of the soy bean belt of the Midwest, I take offense
    >at the notion that rural America and computer literacy are
    >mutually exclusive.
    
    And you've every right to, Hayseed! 
    
    Fact remains, I can't see Seattle taking over from Nashville as country
    music capital of the world in the too near future ;-)
    
    Dom
    
    
    

>    Of course, I think even DB will agree that the best synth piano
>    patch can't replace the experience of playing a 9 foot Steinway.
    
    Of course, but it's not like analog recording is "real" and
    digital is "synthetic".
    
    They are two different ways of storing data.
    
    You can make some VERY good and well-founded arguments about the
    advantages of analog recording over digital recording, but my
    recollection is that Young stepped beyond that.   He was making
    arguments about computerization of music as if some inherent
    soul in the music lost when it was processed by a computer.
    
    	db - who still uses and at times "prefers" analog equipment
    	     to his digital stuff.
    
    p.s. While I'd rather play a Steinway, for almost ANY home-studio
    	 type, I would claim that a digital piano is going to give
         you a much better result than what the average home-studio
         type could do EVEN if they owned a gorgeous Steinway.
    
         Pianos are not easy to record.  That's part of the problem
    	 with digital pianos.  But the advantage to them is that some
    	 company with major league bucks had the money to spend on getting
         good samples has already done the hard work for you.
    
    	 In the context of a recorded song, I think you'd be very hard pressed
    	 to tell a real piano from a digital one.  It would be for me
    	 and I'm the guy who's ears proved to be correct when we had
         that big question of whether or not the snare in Dream Theaters
    	 "Images and Words" was sampled - to these ears it was painfully
    	  obvious that it was.

re: .156

>    You can make some VERY good and well-founded arguments about the
>    advantages of analog recording over digital recording, but my
>    recollection is that Young stepped beyond that.   He was making
>    arguments about computerization of music as if some inherent
>    soul in the music lost when it was processed by a computer.
    
Actually, I read his rant (or at least one of them), and his primary
argument for why digital sounded worse was the old "there isn't enough
'steps' for digital to recreate the analog waveform" (not his words, but
the general idea).  This argument, while fallacious, is hardly restricted
to Neil Young.  It comes up periodically in the rec.audio.pro newsgroup.
In reality, Nyquist and/or Shannon (I forget) proved back in the 1950's 
(I think) that a bandwidth-limited analog signal also isn't really analog
either.  Once a change in level becomes smaller than the noise floor, the
change is then indistinguishable from the noise floor.  It's a mind-boggling
concept at first, and lots of otherwise intelligent people have had a hard
time grasping it.

    
    Ah, Hal, I see you followed the Gabe Weiner vs. Rick Vartian
    thread... :-) :-)
    
    -b

re: .158

>    Ah, Hal, I see you followed the Gabe Weiner vs. Rick Vartian
>    thread... :-) :-)
    
Yes, but I'm not sure I should include Rick V. in "otherwise intelligent
people".  :-) :-)

-Hal