Conference napalm::guitar

    So Tom
    
    	Did you find anyone who has the new GR 1 in the store? It would
    seem if they have fixed their tracking problem on the bass strings
    this might be worth investigating. Plus the EJ article seems to
    indicate that it's easier to just play your instrument naturally
    instead of adapting your technique to trigger the synthe.....
    
    							Rick
    

    
    	Hi Rick - no, I havent'.  Hoping someone else has.  I checked
    	out the synth note.  Does this thing deserve it's own note?
    	It is brand new and if EJ likes it...
    
    	Hey, Dan Electro, what's the scoop ?  
    
    	Tom
    

    The tracking thing is partly smoke.  By going back to driving a synth
    directly and avoiding the MIDI delays, the tracking *appears* to be
    faster.  It's just that all the *other* delays have been removed. Using
    the GR-1 driving an external synth will remove some of this tracking
    "improvement" since the MIDI delay will come back into the equation.
    Some users of the older, pre-MIDI GR-300 synth found that by comparison
    the GR-700 MIDI guitar synth seemed to have worse tracking.  So now
    Roland has come full circle.  
    
    You *still* can't fight Mother Nature, the half-cycle delay for the
    open E string is still there (about 6 ms).  That's why they have
    abandoned bass controllers and Peavey has gone to three-way pickups to
    try to nail the tracking problem.
    
    As far as the sound, I haven't heard it, but I'd be real surprised it
    it doesn't sound like all the other RS-PCM keyboards and modules that
    Roland is spewing out.  The built-in sequencer does make it attractive
    as an alternative to a keyboard-based "workstation".  
    
    						Max O'Lydian

    ok Brian,..... so even Roland can't change the laws of physics....
    
    							Rick
    

I bought a GR1 on Saturday (with 14 days approval). I don't think I'll be taking
it back.

Tracking:-
Tracking is excellent on the local synth. I found it easy to adapt my playing,
and I managed to generate surprisingly few bleeps and phart noises (pinch
harmonics are definitely to be avoided in this regard).
I'm no Yngwie, but I do have my moments, and the GR1 is fast enough to keep
up with me.
Tracking over MIDI (i.e. playing an external synth via the GR1's MIDI out)
is somewhat slower than the internal synth, as expected. I am currently
having some problems with this... it may be because I'm a MIDIot and haven't
got everything set up properly (It seems that sometimes, even with slow notes,
if you alter the pitch by a semitone, the external synth still plays the
preious note. Also some notes seem to get ignored entirely....oh well).

Sounds:-
There are 200 basic sounds in the internal synth, any 2 of which can be
combined to make a "patch". There are 64 preset patches, which range
range from the highly usable to "sound effects". You can write your own patches,
but this means overwriting the preset patches (unless you buy optional memory
card, which allows you another 64 patches). There is also an optional "Wave
Expansion kit" which gives you another 200 sounds.
My favourite presets are Rhodes, Piano, solo Violin, trumpet,  mute trumpet,
soprano and tenor sax, and Flugelhorn (really). There are also some "spacey"
synth sounds. There is no "Hammond" preset, but it is easy to setup your own.
The GR1 has an inbuilt Chorus and Reverb/echo which you add to each patch
as required (e.g. to obtain the Leslie effect on your Hammond patch).

If anyone has any particular queries, I'll try and answer them.

*Dave

	Hi Dave - where were you able to buy with 14 day approval?
	Are you in Massachusetts?  I called a few places and they
	"had one" but would order me one, etc...

	Also, the quoted price was 1150 for the GR-1, Gk2 pickup.

	I heard that a full chord sounds mushy - what's the scoop
	on that?  

	Any and all descriptions you could provide would be
	great!!

	Thanks - Tom

    
    Once you've had a chance to play with this beast, please let us know
    how it handles bends with the external synth.  Sometimes there is a
    parameter that needs to be set to allow pitch bend commands to be
    sent...  The IVL Pitchrider I had used to go nuts when I enabled that,
    though.
    

    
    	Thanks, Dave!  I'm VERY interested in it!!  Right now, I'm
    	doing a tape-backup solo act that's alot of fun.  But folks
    	come up and ask me "do you do any Led Zep?", for example.
    	I don't have any Zep tapes so, kiddingly, I do the riff to
    	Communication Breakdown, or Whole Lotta Love, or Stairway.
    	I've surprisingly gotten great reactions from playing just
    	by myself.
    
    	So... I'm thinking about doing a solo act with no tapes in
    	addition to my current act for "listening" clubs.  I'd love
    	to do Billy Joel or Elton tunes with piano sounds.  Shoot,
    	I could even assign the low E and A to a fretless bass 
    	sound...
    
    	Would certainly set an act apart from the usual acoustic
    	with a mic.
    
    	Tom
    

re .8 (?) - full chords sounding mushy. Having had another listen with
headphones, I stand by what I said yesterday (i.e. depends on the chord
voicing and on the sound). Full chords sound great on the grand piano
patch, for instance.

re .10 pitch bend on external synth.
Well, what do you know? I disabled pitch bend for MIDI on the GR1, and
suddenly the tracking on the external synth was faultless (i.e. no lost
notes or misplaced pitches). Whilst not quite as fast as the local synth,
the tracking is now very usable. Now I need to try another unit to
confirm that pitch bend over MIDI is a product problem...


re .last (Tom)

re Led Zep
There are some distorted and feedback guitar sounds to choose from,
plus 12-string for "Stairway". (There are also metal and nylon string guitar
sounds, BTW).

re Joel & John
The acoustic (double) bass sound is very good as well, would sound
good with piano. The synth also features a 4-track sequencer which
I haven't even tried yet. You could program in electric bass and drums and
play along on piano with strings... (did I forget to mention the drum kit
sounds...?).
    
*Dave    

    Re: pitch bend
    
    It depends on what the GR-1 uses to *sense* pitch bend.  If it is
    sending *lots* of bend data, the slow tracking is due to an overload
    of MIDI data, i.e. the receiving synth is still trying to process the
    bends when the next note on arrives, so the note doesn't get generated
    right on time.
    
    Ther's no magic in MIDI, it's a serial data comm protocol and if the
    line gets clogged with lots of controller data, the notes can easily
    get delayed.  In fact, KEYBOARD magazine has some torture tests
    sequences which send out gobs of data and they listen to see when
    synths they are testing start to choke up.
    
    In general, controllers like bend, aftertouch, etc. can send out lots
    more data then you might expect.  Any time you don't need them, it's
    a good idea to disable them just to avoid bandwidth problems.
    
    						Brian

re. -1 Thanks for the info Brian.
I was getting problems (mainly missed or mispitched notes, rather than
response problems) when I tried to play "straight" notes with no string
bending or vibrato applied.
I'm still not 100% sure I've got everything set up properly on the external
synths. So far I've tried a Yamaha SY22 and a Roland Juno-1 with similar
results.
* Dave

You may want to hook up your MIDI out port to a PC with a program that can
display the MIDI stream as you play. I Had a Suzuki MIDI guitar toy and
it sent out an incredible stream of pitch bend data all of the time. The
sad part is that it was incredibly tiny resolution steps (+- 1 LSB was
typical, but occasionally +- 2 LSB). This served to choke up all of my
data streams with very insignificant data (I noticed it as I tried to
use the MIDI Guitar with my MMT-8 hardware sequencer. I ran out of memory
real fast! 98% of the data was insignificant PITCH BEND data).

							Jens

    I'd imagine the very physics of a guitar would cause lots of pitch bend
    datums to be generated.
    
    When a guitar string is struck by a pick, the pick stretches the string
    until the friction between the string and pick is broken. Since the
    string is stretched, the tone is sharp. As the note rings out, the
    tension on the string lessens, and the note flattens.
    
    Edd

    
    
    Yeah, you can see that if you leave your tuner in-line.  But that
    points out another difficulty for MIDI guitar controllers - there's got
    to be some hysteresis in the pitch evaluation so that the amount of
    pitch bend data generated by the controller stays within some
    (hopefully adjustable) limit.
    
    

    
    	Hi Dave - keep the info coming!!  I got a few things in the
    	mail from Roland and I'm working up the nerve to go try
    	one.  I _know_ if I like it, my credit card comes out!!
    
    	Tom
    

One minus point with the GK2 pickup;-
If you fit this to a Strat, don't expect to be able to use your
moulded Fender case any more; you won't be able to close the lid.    

One nice feature of the GR1 I don't think I've mentioned:-
Each patch can combine 2 tones. The GR1 allows you to trigger
the first tone when you pick softly, and the second tone can be
triggered only when you pick harder (the threshold level is adjustable;
also you can choose between mixing both tones when you reach the threshold,
or having just the second tone sounding).
This feature makes it possible to create a very realistic Sax sound.
i.e. select the "Tenor Sax" tone as the first tone, and "Tenor Growl"
as the second tone which comes in when you pick hard. Instant Yakety-Sax.

*Dave.

    Dave,
    
    	Do you consider most of the sounds on the GR1 to be more "pop"
    oriented or is there a good selection of other sounds? For example
    an upright bass patch,a grand piano patch? A real brass sound as
    opposed to a synthe brass. I remember the GR50 had alot very synthe
    sounding patches,but lacked in the traditional sampled sounds... 
    Any chance we can get you list the patches with some descriptions.
    
    							Rick

re .-1 Rick,

I'll look at giving you some more descriptions of the sounds and patches
(I'll need to bring the manual in for accuracy).

From memory, I would say there is a fair selection of sounds. These include
real brass, woodwind and strings. The sounds appear to be digital samples of
the solo instruments. There are also some combined instrument patches (e.g.
"Horn Section", "Orchestra"). There are also synth patches for strings
(e.g. "Huge JP8") and brass ("Ripbrass").

I'll bring in the manual and see if I can spare some typing time after work...

*Dave

    Thanks Dave.....
    
    Hey Tom D... where you goin to look at one of these?
    
    
    						Rick
    

    Re: .23
    
    I saw one the other day at the Worcester Wurly's, probably all of their
    stores have it.
    
    Careful on the pricing!  Where the old guitar synths included the
    pickup in the price, this one is priced as two pieces, making the price
    on the base unit deceptively low.
    
    						Brian

    
    Isn't there a way to use the older model pickup with this guy?  I
    thought I saw something to that effect in the Roland User's Group
    magazine...  If so, you could get your cost down a little by buying a
    used pickup.
    

    Yeah, but the older pickup (GK-1) loses a bit in tracking speed, that
    was one of the big deals when they went to the GK-2...
    
    It's kind of stupid, noone is going to  buy the synth without the
    pickup except someone who already has a pickup, and if they have a
    pickup they have one of the older synths which they might want to sell,
    and they can't sell it without a pickup, etc., etc.
    
    Typical Roland marketing idea.  
    
    					Brian

    
    	Yep, it's another 170 for the GK-2 pickup.  Wurly's in 
    	Framingham has one and would match the 995+169 price in
    	Music Emporium mag.  But, they wouldn't "help" me with
    	the setup and "give advise".  I'd have to pay the additional
    	$75 or so for their "help".  Also, Steve's (in Danvers?) just
    	got one - they called me yesterday.  
    
    	I have a gig this weekend so not sure about trying one.  And
    	like I said, I KNOW I'd walk out with one when I try it.
    
    	If you try one, Rick, let us know!!
    
    	Tom
    

    Re: .27
    
    Ha ha ha ha ha ha...the "help" is extra...ha ha ha ha...
    
    OK, so they didn't wanna meet the mail order price, so they pull that
    one.  It's not like Music Emporium is rock bottom pricing anyway.
    
    Go ahead and ask 'em if the $75 includes a loaner if the rig dies the
    night before a big gig!  8^)  8^)
    
    						Reddy Kilowatt

re the setup.
You really don't need to be a luthier to fit a GK2 well enough to
try it out. It comes with instructions and can be fitted with supplied
adhesive shims (no need to commit to screw holes in your Strat straight away).
It's a bit fiddly and requires loosening off the strings at some point. So,
the average person wouldn't need help from the shop to fit the thing.

Patch list (as supplied):

Group 1			Patch Number
		1		2		3		4
Bank
11		Rhodes		Flugel		Huge JP8	Scatin
12		Feedbker	Pdlsteel	Fantapad	Git+stgs
13		Grand		Vibes		Big Bee		Rock Bee
14		V-Swtstgs	Big Stgs	Hisynstg	Solo vln
15		Fantasia	Atmsphre	Plukglas	Digipluk
16		Sync*		Gr300 LD	Sqr Lead	Grung
17		Flute		Mute Tpt	Sop Sax		Tenorsax
18		Ripbrass	Poly syn	Hornsect	Syn Horn
=========================================================================
Group 2
Bank		1		2		3		4
21		Ooohs		Breath		Heaven		The Deep
22		Nylon Gt	Harm gtr	E-Sitar		Jahmayka
23		Blowpipe	Clarinet	Hrmonica	Digilead
24		Fretless	Slapin		Dinosaur	Rok Bass
25		Trumpet		Orkestra	Rich Brs	Plksweep
26		Beat kit	Invisibl	Soft Pad	VMIXlead
27		Bells+		Bandsect	Bass>Pno	Jazzsplt
28		Bomber		Planet10	Mayhem		(blank)
========================================================================

You can store your own patches instead in any of the above locations.
There is also a facility to swap patch numbers so you can easily relocate
sounds into the same group for ease of patch switching on a gig, for instance.
Adding the M256E memory card gives you blank groups 3 and 4 (another potential
64 patches).

The GR1 has 4 pedals (to select the individual patch from a Bank)
and "Bank up" and "Bank down" pedals to select the bank. There is also a
Group select button (which would be arkward to operate with the unit on the
floor; you couldn't do it with your foot).

    I'm sure Daddy's in Nashua would meet or beat EUW's price on a GR1 plus
    no sales tax,loaner's,for repair situations,etc....
    
    
    							Rick
    

A "patch" can consist of up to two of the following "tones":-

Piano					Bass		
-----					----
Apiano1				Acou BS1	Oct Bs1	
Apiano1				Acou BS2	Oct Bs2
Honkytnk			E Bass1		Resobass
E Piano1			Pick Bs1	Pdl Bass
E Piano2			Pick Bs2	Dly Bass
E Grand				Pick Bs3	BS+drums
Pop Epno			Pick Bs4
Rhodes 1			Slap Bs1
Overtone			Slap Bs2
Apno+vib			Dtunslap
AC P+vox			Frtless1
Clav 1				Frtless2
Clav 2				Mini BS1
				Mini Bs2


Chromatic Percussion		String ensemble		
--------------------		---------------
vibes1				Strings1	
vibes2				Slw strg
marimba				Oct strg
				Bowdstrg
Organ				trem str		
-----				brt str	
organ 1				drk str	
organ 2				JP str1	
Rock org			JP  Pad	
jazzorg1			Oct Jpstrt
jazzorg2			JP Str2	
Cheeso				Hybdstr1
Pipe org			Hybdstr2
				Hybdstr3

Guitar				Strings (for solo)
------				------------------
Steelgt1			Violin
Nyln gtr			Cello
12st gtr			cntra bass
gtrharm1			fiddle
gtrharm2			wirestrg
distgtr1			harp
distgtr2			syn harp
funk gtr			
gtr lead			
feedback1			Voice (Choir)
feedback2			-------------
onlyfdbk			Syn vox1	invrsion
pdlsteel			syn vox2	syn harm
banjo				Dbl vox		echo vox
E sitar 1			Voxlead1	scat vox
E sitar 2			hauntvox	dly scat
				chiffpad	nylnscat
				breath		pluk-doo
				wind vox	


Brass Ensemble			Brass (for solo)
--------------			----------------
Brs sec1			Trumpet1
Brs sec2			Trombone
brs sec3			tuba
Oct Brs				Brite tp
brs fall			Mute tp1
syn brs1			Alto + tp
syn brs2			Tp+trbn
syn brs3			Trbn+sax
brs blst			
rich brs			


Horn				Sax
----				---
				
Frnch hn			Altosax1
flugel				tenorsax
dtun hrn			sop sax
Velo hrn			altogrwl
dual hrn			tenrgrwl
pulsehrn			alto+tnr
syn hrn1			
brth hrn			
flgl+tp				
flgl+flt			

Woodwind instrument		Other wind
-------------------		----------

Piccolo				Ocarina
FLute				calliope
Oboe				Btl blow
Clarinet			Hrmonica
Chif flt			Whistle
Mute+flt			
vibe+flt			

Synthesizer			Synth bell
-----------			----------

GR300 1		invisibl	fanta bl
Pln Lead	atmsphre	tinl bl
Poly Syn	digipluk	syn bell
Tweety		plukswp1	sprkbell
Soft pad	plukswp2	fantasia
metalpad	sweeppad	fantapad
Sqrlead1	oct pad
synlead1	hllw pad
synlead2	choirpad
synlead3	digibow
synlead4	digivox
synlead5	soundtrk
5th lead	bowedgls
saw lead	heaven
saw pad		ambience
pulsepad	
techno 		
ominous		
harp pad	


Percussion
----------
Steeldrm	Side stk	Handclap	Tight Sn
Tom		close hat	open hat	ride cym
Cowbell		kick 1		crsh cym	syn toms
kik+snar

Sound effects
-------------
Gunshot		Talking		Mileneum	Spacevox
Dropbomb

    
    
    	How effective would this unit be for a gigging guitarist?  Seems
    from the patch list that it is more suitable for someone who wants
    to sequence but doesn't have a synth.
    	What does it do in the terms of replacing the amp/stomp box or
    guit/midi rack puke set up.
    P.K.

    
    	Also, it has an effects loop to distort that clarinet
    	patch ;^)
    
    	Funny, I look at it like Dave.  To me, it's far beyond
    	guitar effects.  Being a floor unit, it sure looks like
    	it was designed for "live".
    
    	Tom
    

    	It was designed to be used live as compared to a GR50....
    

    Matt B at Daddy's mentioned to me that the GR-1 tracks much better than
    the GR50 setup and they have one in stock in Nashua and will be setting
    it up this week for demo's.......I plan on checking it out.....if
    anyone is interested I suggest you give Matt a call.....
    
    							Rick

Anyone else tried one of these yet..? 

I think I may have solved the problem with the GK2 not fitting in my
guitar case, by the way. I scrounged some self adhesive Velcro patches
and I've attached the GK2 control unit (the part with the volume control
and switches) with these. When you want to put the guitar in its case,
you can rip the control unit off the front of the guitar. The pickup is still
firmly attached to the guitar, but with the control unit "hanging loose"
there is just about enough cord from the pickup to stow the control unit in
the case (in the gap left by the lower cutaway).

*Dave

    Dave,
    
    I would be careful with the lead from the GK2 pickup to the control
    unit.
    
    As you know, I fitted my GK2 into the body of my TELE.  One reason was
    co's I hated having that big lump on the guitar, another was that I
    kept hitting the select switch when I didn't want to, and the third was
    that the lead from the hex pickup was getting hammered.
    
    At one point, the outer cover came loose where it entered the pickup
    exposing the inner wires.  I ended up gluing it in place, but I would
    not be happy having the control unit loose on the end of the cable.
    
    
    Nick ( Who wants a GR1 to replace his GR50 but can't afford one... )
    

    
    Anyone have any comments on using the GR1's ( or GR50's ) guitar feed
    ( via GK2 an multi cable ) versus a straight cable into your guitar amp.
    
    Nick
    

    Semi-rathole:
    
    For those wondering if guitar synths are worthwhile, I just got a CD
    you should hear.  It's by Phil Miller and is caled "Digging In". it's
    on the Cuneiform label.
    
    Miller has been on the UK prog jazz/rock scene since the early
    seventies, in bands like Matching Mole, Hatfield and the North, and
    National Health.  He started using Roland synth guitar back around 1985
    and now is heavily MIDIed, to the point where three of the seven tracks
    on this album (which was recorded last year) are nothing but Phil and
    his MIDI setup.  On the remaining four tracks, there is live bass and
    keyboards as well (all drumming is MIDI).
    
    The exact gear he uses is not listed but the cover shot shows Phil in a
    room with a Roland FC-100 footpedal, a Fostex E-8 tape deck, a Yamaha
    DMP-7 digital mixer.  No synths can be identified, but his last two
    albums credited an MC-500 sequencer, Yamaha TX-81Z (long a favorite for
    guitar synth users) and Alesis HR-16 drum machine.  It's not 100% clear
    what he uses as a controller interface, but I assume he is still in the
    Roland camp (the back cover shows him playing the old Roland GR-series
    Strat copy, actually made by Ibanez).
    
    A real impressive recoridng that shows how *musical* guitar synth can
    be.
    
    							Brian

Article 10909 of alt.guitar:
Path: nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!news.crl.dec.com!deccrl!caen!uunet!pipex!warwick!str-ccsun!dct.ac.uk!mctkew
From: mctkew@dct.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.guitar
Subject: GR-1 REVIEW
Date: 8 Dec 92 17:06:55 GMT
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology
Lines: 242

A REVIEW OF THE ROLAND GR-1 GUITAR SYNTHESIZER

The GR-1 is the latest in the line of Roland Guitar Synthesizers - I've
had one for about 5 weeks now and have gone through a large part of the
manual. In this review I'll tell you what I think of it - and how it has
affected my playing style, as well as the technical information in the
manual.

The synth is designed to work with the ROLAND GK-2 synthesizer driver
pick up, which can be mounted on to any guitar - an IBANEZ SG in my
case. The GK-2 picks up the analogue information dealing with picking
intensity, pitch, bends/vibrato etc and translates it into digital
information which can drive the oscillators / filters etc. The GK-2
doesnt produce MIDI output, but produces a special ROLAND configured
language - which is fast enough to avoid most tracking problems. This
pickup has options to set the sensitivity for each string - which must
be done if the pick up setting has been changed - (if you twiddle one of
the screws that changes the height of the pick up - e.g). The pick up
has switches which can provide a variety of functions - it can set the
pedals on the synth up to produce pitch shift etc (normally the pedals
change patches), and also to scroll through the tone list, change the
tone parameters and other features of the synth. The pick up also has a
mixer which can mix the guitar and synth sounds, or have each sound
separate. 

The sounds in the synth are MIDI compatible and represent short bursts
of sampled sounds - which can then be altered with the envelope \ filter
\ vibrato \ reverb \ chorus \ pitch bend controls !!!. The synth  has
200 preset tones which cannot be altered, and there are a further 200
available from ROLAND on an expansion board. 64 patches represent the
workspace for programming the synth, with a further 64 available on the
expansion board. Each patch can have any 2 of the tones - and the
parameters comprising these tones can be altered separately ....

The following parameters can be altered with the controls having a range
of -50 to + 50 - 0 represents the original unaltered preset tone
setting.

DETUNE
VIBRATO RATE CHANGE
PAN (for stereo output)
ATTACK
DECAY
RELEASE
FREQUENCY CUTOFF
RESONANCE
VIBRATO DEPTH
VIBRATO RATE

The following are patch parameters which will affect both tones (if two
are used) :-

CHROMATIC OR ANALOGUE PITCH BEND (on or off (usually off))
PICKING SENSITIVITY/DYNAMICS - (only for the patch - not globally)
1ST/2ND TONE COMBINATION - you can set this parameter so that the second
tone only sounds if the guitar is picked harder - e.g having a smooth
sax sound - but a honk if the string is picked harder
VELOCITY THRESHOLD - controls the "hardness" value at which the 2nd tone
will sound in the TONE COMBINATION parameter
"FAT ON/OFF" - The GR-1 FAT parameter will thicken a patch by adding a
lower octave note to the tone - this setting is usually OFF but this
parameter gives you the option. This parameter doubles the number of
synth voices used - so it might not work too well on patches with 2
tones. 
2ND TONE EFFECT ON/OFF - you can have reverb/chorus on for the 1st tone -
but off for the second - etc
2ND TONE HOLD ON/OFF - 	the hold option will sustain a note after the
guitar string vibration has stopped (FAT and HOLD are also controlled by
foot pedals - see later)
LEVEL 
1ST/2ND TONE BALANCE

There are also parameters which can shift both tones in a -2 to +1
octave range. The pitch shift can be the same for every string - or a
different value for every string !!!

Different combinations of 1st/2nd tones can be set for each string as
well as pitch shift

A variety of guitar type effects can also be added to the tone - these
come under the generic names of reverb and chorus.

The REVERB parameters control the rate and depth of the reverb type -
the types are :- 

ROOMS 1 - 3
HALL 1,2
PLATE
DELAY
PANNING DELAY

There is a similar set up for the chorus effects :-

CHORUS 1 - 4
FEEDBACK CHORUS
FLANGER
SHORT DELAY 1 and 2

This set up has introduced me to a completely different world. With a
straight guitar set up, I spent more time working out notes rather than
the tone of a note - so I find it very difficult to try and mimic a tone
I might hear on record. I have been successful at some things, but
sometimes in the search for a tone I end up with a completely different
idea - but still a good sound !!! I have been listening keenly to "Jazz
From Hell" by Frank Zappa, in an attempt to reproduce some of his
synclavier tones on the GR-1. The first track has a treated piano with
pitch bend and a lot of resonance - this sound wasn't too hard to get -
although I'm not totally convinced that its exactly the same. The second
tune is more difficult - a strange treated oboe/clarinet sound with a
bell type ring to it plays an atonal solo over complex drum/bass
patterns - if you listen to it while standing up it has a disorientating
effect which may make you fall over !!! I tried to make this tone but got
sidetracked - I changed the clarinet tone for a marimba (always a common
sound with Zappa !!) - the resulting patch has the marimba with a short
attack, and a tinkly bell sound with a deep slow vibrato - this gives
the bell sound an imprecisely pitched ring to it (the decay and release
of this tone have been lengthened) which warps out the tempered marimba
!!!

I have also been successful in recreating the atonal/cacaphonic
saxophone barrage that Pat Metheny uses to wonderful effect on SONG X
(his 1985 collaboration with Ornette Coleman - I'm not a big fan of most
Pat Metheny records - a little to cold and bland for me :-) - but SONG X
is WONDERFUL). To get the cacaphonic effect I chose alto and tenor
saxophone tones, mixed in clean/mellow guitar, and shifted the alto up a
b5.

PEDALS - The GR-1 is very well laid out in my opinion - and the manual
is actually very easy to follow (WOW !!). The programming parameters are
ordered in a very logical way - with only one drawback as far as I can
see - It is not possible to view and edit the Attack, Decay and Release
parameters at the same time - but perhaps a PC music package could do
this for me - It might allow more instinctive sound editing.

When the GR-1 comes out of the box the six pedals are set up as follows
- the switch on the GK-2 will change the pedals from patch changers to
their other functions

TUNER - a guitar tuner (never !!)

PITCH SHIFT A - unlatched pitch shift gradually falling to 1 octave
below, with a rise/fall time of 32, and a return time of 18.

PITCH SHIFT B - unlatched pitch shift gradually rising to 1 octave
below, with a rise/fall time of 8, and a return time of 8.

SEQUENCER SONG START/STOP -  See description of sequencer

FAT/MOD - FAT adds a note an octave below

HOLD - This effect holds the note played - in two different ways - 
     1 - the next notes are held also - this gives a dense layering

     2 - The synth cannot play another note until the HOLD pedal is
         released - play straight guitar over a long bass note

The configuration of the pedals can be changed to suit the owner - I
have changed the HOLD pedal to be latched - I no longer have to keep the
pedal depressed to get the effect.

THE FOUR TRACK SEQUENCER

This is the first time I've ever used a sequencer - so I'm not a good
person to comment !!! The GR-1 sequencer can only be regarded as a rough
sketchpad - only useful for writing rough ideas. IMO this is because
there is not enough memory to store pitch shift data, which means that a
natural imprecise note or vibrato can produce a worrying chromatic slur
!!! (which sounds horrible)

The sequencer has four tracks - one of which must be drums, and can
store up to 999 bars of music. It is possible to work on only 8 bars at
a time (I've been using 4 exclusively up till now) which are looped, so
that the tune can be created gradually. It is possible to copy, erase
etc, and perform the other usual functions used to manipulate sequencer
information. The Quantise level can be set to anything up to triplet
16th's, but I am attempting to perfect my timing by playing drum parts
over a click track without quantisation. Playing drums on the guitar
takes a bit of getting used to; because the elements that make up the
"feel" you put into playing a note; can produce irritating effects. For
example using left hand damping to control the length of a note can
confuse the "pitch " information that the synth needs - each drum is
assigned a different note, and damped notes can sometimes trigger the
drum which has been mapped to the fret below. This is a little
irritating when your wonderful snare part has a hand clap in it !!!
The time signature  can also be changed from 1/4 to 16/16 (well 15/16
!!)

I will leave out the MIDI connection section - I've nothing to connect
the synth to yet !!! - but I could look up the manual to answer any
specific questions from anyone - my mail address is at the bottom of
this review

IMPRESSIONS...

The first impression is WOW !!!! - but this comes from a person not
familiar with synthesisers. However I feel that it will take years to
fully explore the possibilities, and on this journey I will learn a lot
about sound and tones/. A difficult thing I find just now is which tone
do I start from if I wish to create a harpsichord (for example), and
how then should I manipulate this sound. Having said that I think the
strengths of sound synthesis lie in the creation of sounds which have
some of the qualities of other instruments (it is not possible to
emulate any instrument completely - even with samples) but add new,
noticably different qualities - e.g. a xylophone with a bell type ring
to it which can be bent !!!

Technically the synth is hard to play - it soon shows up all the
inconsistencies and innaccuracies that a straightforward guitar will
hide. THis has been a source of frustration for me - sometimes by nice
lovely xylophone line turns into a garbled mess !!! - but my guitar
playing has never improved this much in 5 weeks - the synth is the best
inspiration for ironing out all the technical imperfections that are
part of my style - the thought of doing this was a complete turn off
before !!!!

If any other netters come across the GR-1 please mail me your thoughts,
or mail me for more info on a particular topic for more details.

Ken Whelan
MCTKEW@UK.AC.DCT
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Re my previous troubles with pitch bend over MIDI.

Yesterday I got a Yamaha SY22 and Roland Juno-6 back together with
the GR1 to try driving an external synth again from the GR1 (with the
intention of composing a stroppy snottogram to Roland UK).

Guess what... it all worked perfectly. The previous tracking problems
must have been due to my not setting-up the pitch bend parameters
properly on the external synths. (e.g. on the SY22, you have to set
the wheel pitch bend value for each "sound"). I have found that if
you do set the pitch bend value the same on the GR1 as on the external
synth (as it says in the manual!), then it all works very reliably.

I would be happy to use the setup now in a live situation.

*Dave the Midiot

    
    	Any weird looks from the audience?  Like, where's the sax and
    	why is that guitar player pretending like he's doing it?
    
    	Green with envy,
    	Tom
    

re .last
Some weird looks; also informed questions such as "What Midi setup
are you using?" (quite a few Musos there).
I half expected someone to accuse us of using tapes, but no one did.
    
*Dave

	I've had a desire to work with a guitar synthe for years and actually
have an Arp Avatar collecting dust in my attic. After hearing the hype about
the Roland products I decided I would consider looking into one. As always
price was limiting factor in my choices. And my own personal applications
did not need a tool for live performance so I ruled out the GR1 as a possibility
as it being a floor oriented product and looked for a bargin in other Roland
products. With all the discussion about the "poor tracking" I decided that the 
way to approach the synthe was not try to outrun the instrument,but play it 
like another instrument in itself. However in trying a Gr707 I found that this 
"vintage" instrument had alot of limits and really did seem to have a 
"tracking problem" seen in the earlier predecessors and perhaps it was the 
setup of this one instrument,playing what patches were available quickly 
indicated to me that the available sounds were not real desirable to me. Keep 
in mind any of the Roland synthes are sensitive to how the pickup is setup. 
As were some of the previous monophonic guitar synthes. 
	Something that impacts your response of the guitar sythne is your
playing technique along with strings and picks. I use a heavier string and 
pick than most people I know. Plus I've worked alot on my playing technique
to improve.
	After trying a GK1/GM70 PM convertor driving another module I found
that even though this was a desireable setup as you would not be bound to a 
sound module,I found it a still a little hard to handle. I believe that the 
pickup setup was part of the problem,however my lack of patience and the fact 
that I didn't want to invest in sound modules. I also recognized that the 
pitch to midi conversion had some tracking problems. 26ms?
	I then went to try the GR50/GK2 combination and came to even a more 
important conclusion,this was not going to be an easy decision to make. I
decided I would investigate renting with an option to buy. I found that in
order to really understand the potential of the instrument I needed at least 
a couple of weeks to evaluate and could not afford to spend the time to learn 
and use the instrument,So I rented a used instrument for a month. I've 
installed the Gk2 on a couple of instruments.
	First of all Roland manuals have a reputation,and I found this manual
to maintain that reputation. The GR50 has 256 PCM tones,to create patches from
which can be organized in patch chains which can contain 25 patches. I organ-
ized my patch chains in the following manner:

IA= Pianos,Acoustic,Rhodes,Organs
IB= Flutes,woodwinds,Brass
IC= Basses
ID= other

	As a composition tool I used the Gr50 to do a midi recording and as 
a multi timbral sound module. As a multi timbral sound module the GR50 has 2 
channels that can be used and a rythmn channel(for drums)which can be driven 
by a computer sequencer.(I found this as an undesirable limit)In my case I 
used a Macintosh Classic II plus and a music notation package called Music 
Time to play and record arrangements. I could use a flute for melody,acoupiano
for chords,Bass and drum kit. I was able to go from a tune in my head and at 
my fingers in a matter of an hour and later periodically add/edit to the 
arrangement to my prefernces. I did most of this with the guitar.
	As a performance tool I would envision the GR50 as an extra instrument
to add to any combo. With the good right hand technique I can simulate a 
piano player. And then take a flute solo when the time comes. With the right
midi pedal setup switching patches would be a breeze. As a solo act instead
of a combo there will be certain limitations. Some of which are also due to
playing technique. ie You can set up the GR50 to use the bottom 3 strings to
play bass and the top three to do something differently like play piano.
 	I have not gotten into creating my own patches extensively,and some of
the reasoning is the difficulty I found in learning to control and setup the 
GR50 from its front panel,a patch editor is a future possibility and necessary.
And I haven't started looking at the optional memory card thats available for
the GR50.
	I can see right off the bat that I will be buying other sound modules
to supplement the GR50,and considering it's the more natural "sampled" sounds
that I prefer I'm sure for playback purposes Ensoniq is a possibility.
	As a recording tool it was nice to walk into the studio turn on the 
computer and just play the sequence and after about 15 minutes of adjusting 
balances on the instruments the foundation of a recording was finished.
	Anyway there's still more to do with the GR50/GK2,but for me it is
certainly a great way to increase productivity time in composing,arrang-
ing and recording music plus it provides a vehicle to listen to what you have 
created. Anyone have a patcheditor recommnedation
		
	


							Rick

OK, it's been 6 months or more since you lucky folks bought GR-1s.  How
about an update?  

	Are you still in love with it?  

	Any buyers remorse?

	Is it still practical for gigs?  

	If you dedicated a guitar to the synth, do you play your 
		*other* guitar any more?  

	Has this opened the door into the MIDI world (through which, 
		I hear, no one ever returns)?

	Has Electronic Musician replaced Guitar Player as your 
		favorite mag?
	


Now, why would Geoff be asking these questions???????


GTS Alert! GTS Alert!


I've become target fixated again!!!


AAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

	Well, I bought one over the weekend and man, are my fingers
	sore!  I couldn't stop playing the thing!

	I have the synth going stereo direct into my PA, panned hard
	to both sides.  The guitar out goes into my SansAmp and is
	in the middle of the spectrum.

	What a fabulous sound thru the PA!!!  I am thrilled with it!!

	You can hear the hammer hit the strings on the piano patches,
	the JP8 absolutely kills Silent Night ;^), and the sax's are
	a riot to solo with!  98% of the patches sound great, altho
	a few aren't often usable.  

	Now I gotta figure out which ones I'll use the most and
	rearrange them in a logical order.

	Jan Hammer

    Tom
    	How usefull would this be for doing sequenced  backing.  I have
    to do sequences and my keyboard skills leave a lot to be desired.
    I would not use the Synth for actual live work but use the midi
    function to record onto a sequencer to play on another sound source 
    for live gigs.
    
    	I played with  one of these once and was blown away by the sounds
    and how easy it was to do things like piano rythm on the guitar versus
     a keyboard.
    
    	Can things like the banjo and guitar patches be played by the
    sequencer or are the in like a anologue only section, It would
    be nice to have proper guitar parts behind me in some songs as
    one guitar gets thin sometimes and I find it near impossible to
    duplicate guitar parts on a keyboard.
    
    P.K.

re:      <<< Note 2606.51 by GIDDAY::KNIGHTP "get me a gin and pentatonic" >>>

Although this is not directed at me, I'll try and answer.

>    Tom
>    	How usefull would this be for doing sequenced  backing.  I have
>    to do sequences and my keyboard skills leave a lot to be desired.
>    I would not use the Synth for actual live work but use the midi
>    function to record onto a sequencer to play on another sound source 
>    for live gigs.

The GR1 would probably be excellent for that purpose. 
Incidentally, using an external sequencer would be a good idea (the GR1's
internal sequencer is a bit limited, plus you can only have one "song" in
memory at a time. This would mean having a lot of memory cards to hand for
a gig, or carting a PC around...).

>    	Can things like the banjo and guitar patches be played by the
>    sequencer or are the in like a anologue only section, It would

The GR1 has a multi-timbral synthesizer, which can be played by the internal
sequencer or by an external sequencer (or by the guitar synth). This gives you
access to the 200 tones supplied with the GR1 (including the guitar and banjo
sounds etc.). 
What Midi does not give you access to is the 64 "patches" which you can access
from the guitar synthesizer (as opposed to the multi-timbral synth). In other
words, you cannot call up your favourite Hammond organ patch, complete
with reverb and chorus etc., from the external sequencer; but you can access
the "building block" tones that make up the patch.

Hope that is clear... just got back from the pub.

*Dave

    re -1
    Thanks
    P.K.
    

    
    	Great!! Thanks, Dave!
    
    	How's the Strat tone?
    
    	Is there anything usable in the electric guitar catagory?
    	The funk guitar tone is ok but the distortion/feedback 
    	tones pretty much suck.
    
    	I've been going thru songbooks lately and just playing and
    	singing thru the PA.  Blending various synth, string, horn,
    	keyboard, and specialty tones with a clean guitar via SansAmp 
    	has been terrific!  Imagine the fullness of a 12-string compared
    	to a 6-string and multiply that by a gazillion.  
    
    	Also demo'd Edd Cote's Vocalist sending chords thru the GR-1
    	and it's very tough to decide between that and the expansion
    	module.  Instant QUEEN/CSN&Y!  Of course, to Edd's ears, I
    	sounded like the Everly Bros. (or was it the Smothers Bros?)
    
    	Dream, dream, dream...
    
    

    If you get the RUG, you'll know that a lesser version, called the GR-09
    is now out.  It has 180 sounds instead of 200.

    
    
    I wonder why they chose the number nine?????
    
    

    Number nine, number nine, number nine, number nine...

   I'm considering taking the plunge on one of these units.  It  seems to meet
   my needs nicely, I like the packaging, and the somewhat restrictive presets
   don't bother me too much, as I'm not (yet) a True MIDIot and all the
   freedom of other systems would just confuse me.  :-)  Is there anything
   similar new in the marketplace I should check out?  What are some current
   prices of GR-1s, both new and used?

   Thanks in advance,

   -- Sam