Conference napalm::guitar

    dont mean to sound negative but....
    I had pedals (boss)....
    went on to use an ME-5 which I gather is similar to the GSP
    and now im back with pedals again
    I cant explain the difference but the sound seems 'warmer' with
    pedals and less wishy-washy with too many effects mixed together
    on the me-5.. I think the reason pedals suite me better is that
    I prefer just a touch of effect on the raw round rather than changing
    the basic sound completely.....
    
    Ray
    

    
    I don't think I would ever go back to pedals as they seem to be a bit 
    restrictive and you end up doing a tap dance to change your sound! 'sides, 
    I like a fairly processed sound.
    
    Thanks,
    -Tony

    My take ?
    
    Getcha a stereo power amp and split your 4x12 into a stereo pair of 
    2x12's.  The GSP has what you need me thinks...  Try a regular type 
    power amp from your PA and see how you like it.
    
    I know the tone your after, oh one of Tart.  If you use the Marshall
    straight in, crank the presense and drop the mids...But I bet you're
    more apt to like the GSP21 better...
    
    jc

    Tone,
    
    My guess is it's something to do with the fx unit!  I used to run
    (using the Peavey a lot these days!!) a Marshall head into a 4x12
    cab, with only a wha pedal (front ended) and a delay unit in the loop.
    Neither fx killed my tone, which was important.  I don't think it's
    your guitar, or your amp.  Take out the fx, and then add them back in,
    first each singularly, then in pairs, etc.  Experiment to see if you
    can get the tone you desire from using less, or maybe even nothing.
    
    
    the B man

    
    1. Start from scratch: guitar into amp.  Adjust until you get a sound you
    like.
    
    2. Add next component from old sound chain.  Adjust everything until you
    get the sound you want.
    
    3. Repeat step 2 until you've got everything where you want it.  Note
    that you may end up with leftover pieces...that's OK.  Toss those into
    the FOR SALE note.
    
    

    ... so Coop can nab it.  8^)

    
    I thought Coop needed more hair so he could get more gigs?
    
    Oops...wrong note...;-)
    
    

    
    I gather that I'd be better off with a clean setting on my Marshall
    first. At the moment I usually have my eq as follows :-
    
    Bass - 4, Mid - 10, treble - 5, Presence - 10
    
    For a good crunchy sound whats the best setting eq wise on the
    Digitech. Also, the unit has a speaker simulator. ANybody have any
    advice on making the most of this - so far I just use the factory
    presets and they're ok - nothing astounding.
    
    Thanks for the help.
    -Tony

    Also, do you think I should experiment with using the GSP21's fx loop
    or are they more trouble noise wise than what they're worth ?

    Tone,
    
    RIght off, I think you should also experiment with the EQ on the
    Marshall.  They're no longer as "dead" as they used to be, and I
    really question you mid and pres both on 10.  Those two freqs "do"
    the most on a marshall, and since you have yours maxed out...
    ???
    
    Go back to starting all tones off at 7, and go from there.  I find
    that midrange on marshalls work better in the 4-8 range.  Also,
    presence seems to be better around 8 - 8 1/2  ... try a little
    experimenting. 

    First off, I agree with Buck on recheckin that tone control setup.  I
    know that I couldn't deal with any of my Marshalls set up like that. 
    
    As someone else suggested, you should get yourself a good *basic* tone
    before you add embelishments.  I knew a guy that set his rig up the
    other way, dialed in a giant digital reverb, slapped in some delay,
    chorus, and everything FIRST, then adjusted his amp settings afterward
    and it never sounded quite right to me.  The amp by itself (adjusted
    differently) sounded much better to me.  I think he was going about it
    backward.
    
    I have a question, for you.  Why are you adding the GSP21 to start
    with?  Does the Marshall not make the sounds you want?  What effects
    are you using in the GSP? 
    
    Personally, I've never heard one of those multieffect units that I was
    totally satisfied with the distortion.  It's never been the same as I
    get with my amps.  I know you're going for a high gain, heavy metal,
    kind of sound, your JCM800 should be able to give you exactly that.  I
    know mine does.
    
    If you're not getting a lot of gain from that model amp, then there's
    probably something wrong with it.  You may want to have it in for
    service.  
    
    Also (and I almost hate to suggest this), if you're looking for more of
    a biting, "brittle" sort of gain, then you might consider putting 6550
    power tubes in it (presuming that since yours is British it's got
    EL34s).  The EL34s are warmer and distort sooner, so with the 6550s
    you'll get a little harsher sound with more of an edge to it.  I've
    heard that a lot of metal players like 'em.  I think what's in mine is
    a good compromise in sounds, it's got the softest rated GT 6550s in it. 
    Sounds great to my ears!  I generally prefer EL34s, but these do seem
    to have a good usable sound.
    
    Greg

    I think because the 6550's are "harder" than EL34's it makes the
    12AX7's supply more of the distortion...Hense, you get a buzzier, 
    more metal sound from 6550's because the distortion is coming from
    the preamp more than the power section - EL34's break up sooner and
    you get the warmer "blues-buzz" from 'em.
    
    Sometimes I wonder if my last marshall would've sounded cooler with
    6550's in it...
    
    jc (Just Supposin')

    
    
    Re:  .0
    
    >> I am unhappy with my tone (ain't we all).
         
    
    Not me!  Guitar------>Marshall JCM900 = 8-)
    
    Special effects are best left to the movies.
    
    Kevin
    
    

    Agreed !  I'm finally happy with mine too.  As was mentioned earlier,
    why try and get a rack to sound like a cranked Fender/Marshall when you
    can just go for the Fender/Marshall.  Personally, I'd rather give a
    little on convenience than to sacrifice the *TONE*.  
    
    BTW ... Laney rooolz ... for me, anyway.
    
    Jerry (combo stomp slut)

    I found that my Dean Markley combo is puttin' out some real nice sounds
    with the mid and treble up on the amp and down on my Les Paul...a touch
    of reverb and it sings!  I'm experimenting with the "drive" channel,
    now.  It's darn close to the Tube Screamer type drive with the gain on
    about 3....impressive little amp!
    
    Steve (non-rack slut)

Of course, if you need to sound like a:

1) Boogie
2) Marshall
3) Rockman
4) GSP21
5) Fender
6) Carvin
7) GK
8) KittyHawk

...All in one night, It might start getting a little economically impossible...
:)

    re: -1
    
    Coop,
    
    you know anybody that can get all those sounds from the same rig?
    
    ;^)
    
    Dawg(ing ya)

No, but I know someone who can come pretty darn close...
:)

jc (Who's used to getting Dawged)

 >   No, but I know someone who can come pretty darn close...
 >   :)
    
    who?
    
    |^)

    ...and can they be heard?

    .. and once thay have all them thar tones all figgered out,..can they
    stiull play the damn guitar?
    
    %*}
    
    						/Cat-a-TONE-ic
    

    That's easy, you eliminate the ones you don't need...
    
    ie, Rockman, GK, & GSP21 all sound about the same
    Boogie & Kitty Hawk, same
    Carvin??  
    
    So you get yourself a Fender, a Marshall, and a processor to make the
    other sounds.
    
    But *realistically*, who really *needs* all those sounds?  I've heard a
    lotta damn good cover bands where a guitar player used like 2-3 sounds
    the whole evening.  Like a twin channel amp with a stomp or two.
    
    gh

Tsk.Tsk.

:)
jc

    
    In more detail, I set my Marshall up in the high input with the eq as
    described with a clean sound. I use the digitech for all effects,
    distortion included. I use the following effects :-
    
    Distortion, Compression, Reverb, Delay, Chorus, Noise gate and the
    Digitechs eq (yup, as well as the Marshalls).
    
    (Delay, Reverb and Modulation are in very small quantities)
    
    I'll try using the Marshalls distortion and see what I get, but I tend
    to get more of a muddy blues sound - maybe its the tubes (valves) ? The
    thing could probably do with a service so I may take it up to Marshall
    tomorrow.
    
    Thanks,
    -Tony

    Tony,
    
    The JCM800s are known for a biting, bright metal-type distortion.  If
    all you're getting from your's is a muddy sound, then (as you said) it
    probably needs to be retubed.  Sounds like it's time for a tuneup on
    it.
    
    I played one like that once awhile back and it surprised me.  It's
    pretty amazing how much difference good tubes can make in these things. 
    I remember noticing that Tom, the other guitar player in Coop's last
    band, had a Marshall which didn't have any gain, no volume, a generally
    sounded muddy and weak.  He changed the tubes and the thing totally
    came to life!  It was like a totally different amp.  (Incidentally, I
    now own that amp and it still sounds pretty good...)
    
    Greg

    
    Well, I replaced the valves and the power tubes and its made not a lot
    of difference although the old tubes were real old and tired.
    
    Bear in mind I don't normally use the amps distortion sound as I find it
    sounds too 'Slash' for my tastes. I've tried cranking the gain to max
    and then adjusting the volume but I can't get a thick enough tone -
    even with adjusting the eq. I took the amp to a shop and he assured me
    there was no problem with the amp itslef and I'm pretty sure my guitar
    isn't faulty (it happnes on both of them - my cab definatley isn't).
    
    I'm thinking about taking my whole rig down to a dealer and replacing
    the amp if neccesary with something, or swopping bits out on a trial
    and error basis.
    
    -Tony

    Tone,
    
    Bring your axe down to a peavey dealer and check out a 5150 amp.
    I mean, I liked my Marshall cuz it was "rather fat, but with a thin
    cutting high end".  But the 5150 amp is THICK THICK THICK!  If
    that is what you're looking for??  Check it out...

    Buck,
         the biggest trouble is the 5150 here in the UK costs
    LOTS,LOTS,LOTS.Which is bloody typical really!
    
    
                                           Staynz

    Maybe you could use a stomp of some kind along with your Marshall to
    give ya what you want.  I use an EQ pedal to round out my sound, and it
    works like a dream.  
    
    Jerry

      Hey Buck E. Lee - I caught a band Wednesday evening with two
    guitarists. One used a Marshall JCM800 thru two Ultimate 2 X 12s,
    the other used a Peavey 5150 with a multiverb alpha in the FX loop
    and also using two Ultimate 2 X 12 cabs. The guy with the 5150 had a 
    great blues/rock sound. His axe was a PRS signature FWIW. 
      I talked with him during a break. He said the 5150 is real
    consistent and he loves the low-end response of the amp.
    
    							-B()()M-
    			

    So how would you characterize the tone the Marshall player had, Boom?
    
    gh

    
      Typical JCM800 - plenty of bite to it. He was playing a Am Std Strat.
    Nothing wrong with his tone, the two guitars actually mixed together
    well, but if I had my choice of one of the two amps -
    
    
       I'd take the 5150. As a matter of fact I'd love to hear how 
    Buck sounds through his! He still likes it after 3 months, right?
    
    							-B()()M-

    >       I'd take the 5150. As a matter of fact I'd love to hear how
    >    Buck sounds through his! He still likes it after 3 months, right?
    
    ...and liking it better and better!!
    
    
    Damn, too bad you couldn't swing back to the place after Riverside
    tomorrow for a test run on the beast!

    
    
       Yeah - You played through ALL of my GEAR!!!!!!!!!
    
       Unfortunately I'm heading back west after Riverside, Hopefully I'll
    get a chance someday!
    
    								-B()()M-

    Why Oh Why is everyone ignoring the Roland GS6 in this discussion of
    tone?
    
    Best Multieffects on the Market.  Not too much so that you disappear up
    your own asshole,  but the best overdrive of them all.  (apart from a
    straight Marshall that is)
    
    Nigel (Bass player by night,  Know it all by day)

    Tony,  You really want to try just using your Marshall again. 
    
    All these guys that you love were taught by just using a Head,  a cab, 
    and a guitar. (That's  all they let you use at M.I. etc)

    
    
     One of the music store flyers I get was blowing out the Roland GS-6
    for $299!!!! That's a of gear for the $!. It has something like six
    types of distortion, delays, reverbs, choruses, all programmable.
    The list on these was $995. I think it was AMS that was selling them
    at that price. They tend to do that when equipment is replaced by newer
    models. I've seen the GP-16 going for $488 these days.
    
    							-B()()M-

    The GP-16 doesn't have the same balls as the GS6  more gizmo's,  Jack
    of all trades,  but master of none.  But it all depends on what you
    play guitar for,  I mean a step phaser may be great in a "play with my
    self in the bedroom"  situation,  but when it comes to hard gigging in
    band  then surely a workhorse (aka the GS6) is more what you need.
    
    Besides aren't all these metal units "out of date" in the U.S.  I
    thought that was for metal'eds.  Isn't that out of date yet?  It's back
    to basics over here,  'A Red Guitar, Three chords and the Truth'
    
    
    

    
        Everyone is in line for a MATCHLESS amp these days. $2400 worth
    of glowing audio processing!!!! 
      
        I think we've sort of hit the wall with techno_do-it-all guitar
    processors. That's what I like about the H & K ACCESS, it's not one
    of those at all. And if you choose to put and effect or two in the 
    audio path it's easy to put in (and to take out!).
    
        B()()M's LOTTO/MEGABUCKs wish list:
    
    		Matchless amp
    		VHT PITTBULL
    		PEAVEY 5150
    		another ACCESS!
    
    						-B()()M-

    >		Matchless amp
    >		VHT PITTBULL
    >		PEAVEY 5150
    >		another ACCESS!
    
    
    Those be grounds for divorce!!
    ;')

>    Those be grounds for divorce!!  ;')

   >>  Those be grounds for divorce!!  ;')
    
    So is wearing lime green liesure suits......yuk!
    
    Steve  |)

    
      re: the last few. 
    
       .....not if I bought her a new car at the same time! Hey I KNOW
    how to do this GTS stuff. I did say the lottery! Dream on....
    
    							-B()()M-

    >> 'A Red Guitar, Three chords and the Truth'
    
    Is that a song title? I like the phrase. If not I just might cop it and
    put some others to it and see how it sounds.
    
    "sakman"

    Don't forget: "Around here we don't flat our fifths - we drink 'em!"
    
    Dave

    I don't know where he got it,.. but my lead singer use to throw
    that lyric over the chords to All along the Watchtower,...
    
    							/Billy
    

    So Did Bob Dylan,  it was also used by Bono in Rattle and Hum,  but I
    first heard it when I was busking once in Canterbury,  some old folkie
    hippy type guy came up with a guitar and we jammed away.  He
    pontificated about lots of stuff,  but this thing sorta stuck in my
    mind, I thought,  god this guy can scat sing really well. Little did I
    know that he had nicked it.
    
    
    Nigel

    Nigel,
    
    I don't like the distortion on the Marshall - its too nasal and tacky
    with naff all gain to my ears, but it could well be my amp.
    
    I *like* a proccessed sound.
    
    'Nuff said.

    And just after I'd written something nice about Ibanez guitars.
    
    Its horses for courses I suppose.
    
    BTW.  Why are you selling your Gameboy,  Won't it fit in your rack? 
    
    8-)
    
    NIgel
    

RE: .48

Thats my boy.  :)

Consider this a warning Tone - do NOT (repeat, DO NOT!) send for the Hughes 
and Kettner glossies on the ACCESS.  Don't do it - I'm warning you!!

jc (who sez Marshalls need gain and sustain)

    JCM800's don't have enough gain?????
    
    You guys are either whacked in the head or have only played through
    amps that were screwed up!  My JCM800 has as much gain as any of those
    mosquito rack things I've had or heard.  It's bone stock too.  BUT a
    qualified technician has recently gone through it componant by
    componant and it has new top quality tubes...  It sounded like crap
    before that, but I think that was mostly due to some bogus
    modifications done by some unqualified idiot.
    
    I did play another JCM800 awhile back that didn't have nearly as much
    gain/compression.  I can only conclude that it was badly in need of
    repair.
    
    And if you want more perceived gain, add compression.  That's what most
    people think of as "gain" anyway.  Even my old "gain-free" JMP will
    sing for DAYS with a compressor stomp in front of it.
    
    gh

> And if you want more perceived gain, add compression.  That's what most

You mean add noise ??  EQ's and Compressors on front a $400 amp to make it
sound *the way you want* ??

Anyway,

I for one can appreciate Tony's position.  I had a Marshall years ago.
By the time I got it to sound just that *way I wanted it*, I had a nightmare
of stomps (chorus, flange, compressor, wha, delay, EQ etc...).  All with little 
6" patch cords that got unplugged and/or broken and it was a massive headache.

To me, Marshalls sound most excellent for some applications/people...Add 
stomps, and they get worse...  Anyway, I still say that my strat/cord/marshall
2550 was one of the best sounding blues/classic_rock rigs you could get...
But I wasn't ready to try Metallica or Shotgun Messiah with it.

If your need is a high-gain processed rig, a Marshall isn't the ticket...(IMHO)
The sounds you want would be easier to afford and maintain by going with a
rack set up.

Now, an ACCESS and a pair of JCM900's with a TC 2290 might be nice...
:)

jc

    My experience with Marshalls is that they are hugely particular about
    what drives them.  If I'm absolutely sure my Marshall isn't broken, and
    I still don't get enough gain, then I increase the input gain.  You can
    do that in a couple of simple ways (maybe more):

	1. Add an EQ, compressor, Tube Screamer, etc. to up the input gain.
	2. Go to active pickups on your guitar.  EMGs will give a slightly
           compressed, higher gain sound than almost any passive pickup.

    Now, I personally wouldn't add a compressor.  Rather, I'd try an EQ
    (that has some sort of output level boost), or a Tube Screamer or
    similar device.  Because Marshalls seem to be very particular about
    what drives them, I would not build a great big effect box train on the
    floor in hopes of acheiving a p-p-p-processed sound.  All you'll get is
    noise.

    Another thing.  It takes some volume to get a Marshall to sound right.
    Even my DR, although better than previous Marshalls in this respect,
    doesn't pump until 5->6 on the master.  This is probably not bedroom
    volume :).

    If you still don't get enough gain, get a Mesa Boogie MK IV, or
    Triaxis, or Peavy 5150, etc.  But don't buy a rack, unless you can
    afford it.  Look at it this way, a Marshall is one of the best
    Rock-n-Roll amps you can buy.  Don't trade it in on a middle of the
    road rack system, or you'll be disappointed.  To buy a 'best in class'
    rack system, you're going to need thousands and thousands or dollars. 
    Otherwise, you'll just end up with a generic processed sound. 
    
    steve

    
    You know it occurs to me that you can't always assume that a particular
    tone is limited to a particular type of music.  Case in point, I saw
    this reggae band and was up close enough to see the lead man's set-up.
    Anyways his lead comes up, and I happened to see what type of pedal
    he was using.  I shrieked in terror, but before I could dive onto the
    stage to stop him, HE STOMPS HIS REGGAE FOOT ON A DOD METAL MANIAC !
    I figured this combination would cause lightning to strike us all down, 
    but gee whiz, it sounded way cool.  Go figure.  
    
    -pat (fixin' to get a freakin' lime yeller metal maniac)

Metal mainiac !?!?!?!!?

Wagagagagagagagagagagaaa...
I'm crackin' up !!

RE: Steve

I agree - a power amp and a GSP-5 probably won't cut it in the Rack 
department.  To build my dream would cost a boat load... As in , "Excuse
me - Fleet Mortgage ?  My name is Jeff and I need a mortgage for a new 
guitar toy"

There are pretty happy mediums though (for middle thousands :).
jc

    I must say Coop,.. I get a pretty god kick out of you saying
    ",... in fornt of a $400 amp to make it sound the way you want..."
    
    So coop,.. do tell us how much stuuf is in fromt of your amp and
    ballpark on the cost of all that ,.. er... processing gear...
    
    Something tells me $400 is way cheap compared to the rack from hell
    
    						/Billy
    

    re: Coop
    
>> And if you want more perceived gain, add compression.  That's what most
>
>You mean add noise ??  
    
    Perhaps you haven't listened to the output of your MP-1 without the
    noise gate in awhile...  
    
    That is absolutely the noisiest preamp I've ever heard.  If you can
    tolerate that, you can certainly tolerate the noise induced by a
    compressor, even the cheapest one made.  
    
    And note that I didn't say "stomp box" anywhere in there.  I said "add
    compression".  Perhaps someone like Dave Blickstein would like to
    explain how much noise the high quality compressor in his guitar rig
    produces.  If you're pissy about noise, stick something like my
    Symetrix 501 on there, you *won't* hear much noise.
    
>EQ's and Compressors on front a $400 amp to make it
>sound *the way you want* ??
    
    NOISE GATES, Aural Exciters and digital effects processors after your
    $600 MP-1 (which doesn't even include a power amp) to make it sound
    *the way you want*?????
                        
    The horror...
    
    re: Pat
    
>      I shrieked in terror, but before I could dive onto the
>    stage to stop him, HE STOMPS HIS REGGAE FOOT ON A DOD METAL MANIAC !
>    I figured this combination would cause lightning to strike us all down, 
>    but gee whiz, it sounded way cool.  Go figure.  
    
    Man, I gotta tell ya, I haven't laughed this hard over something I read
    in Notes in a LONG time!!!  TOO funny!
    
    8^)
    
    Greg
                  

    RE: .56
    
    Okay. My rig as it stands now has soaked up close to $1800. Thats not
    including wireless, speakers, guits, controllers, power distribution,
    Hardware (screws, wires etc) or transport (rack).   The whole
    shee-bang is probably around the $6K mark, including three guits.
    That naturally doesn't include fickle-ness or the blood, sweat and
    tears it took to build it.
    
    What I get is the ability to get the same sound you get from your
    stereo when you play your favorite CD - live (in real-time, if I so
    chose).  It's not perfect by any means...But I can come close (I've
    said this before) to any sound you want at the push of a button.
    
    Perhaps thats not important to you, but I dabble in many genres of
    music, which may require vastly different sounds...Sometimes in the
    same song.  I need flexability.  You'll note that I said "*the way  you
    want*".  I don't want some engineer adding effects to my sound.  I do
    it myself (thankyouverymuch :).  I set it all up in about 5 minutes
    flat, slap a mike in front and thats it.  The engineer doesn't have to
    ride my volume, cuz I have a patch for leads, rhythms, clean, crunch,
    and nasty.  MIDI is wonderful for what *I* need it for...and the
    engineers love me for it too, right Rog ??   :)
    
    Greg, I *ass*umed you meant a stomp compressor/EQ.  Seems to me if
    you added a $500 compressor to a rig, then you be just as much of a
    rack puke as me... Cuz then your need an exciter to bring back the
    dynamics to the sound you just squished.  What about delay, chorus,
    flange-n-wha ?  Probably not what you want, but thats cool -  it's
    what I want.  
    
    Dood, If I added all that to a pair of Marshalls (gotta be stereo ya 
    know), I'd be WAY more broke than I am now...And I'd have a wash of
    noise, cuz Marshalls aren't made for that kind of thing.  Bottom
    line is - Marshalls sound best with a cord and a guitar in front of 
    'em.  (IMHO, naturally)
    
    Seems to me this whole string of notes was spurred by our pal 'Tony 
    The Tart' (sorry dood :) asking how he could get a processed sound out 
    of his rig.  Tony is probably looking for a "generic" kind of
    processed sound that you hear on most pop-metal-type CD's.
    
    He probably needs an affordable solution.  He said he didn't like the
    Marshalls sound, and he owns a GSP21.
    
    Tony -  seems like we have two solutions here:
    
    1.  You can fix the sound of the Marshall and sh*t can the GSP.
    
    2.  You can shitcan the Marshall and go with the GSP.
    
    Personally, I'd go with choice two, as thats where I've had the best
    luck at achieving *my* "processed and generic" sound.  :)
    
    To recap - 
    
    Marshalls are very cool, but they aren't for everyone.
    Racks are very cool, but they aren't for everyone.
    
    Oh, and for what it's worth - I can WAIT to check out Marshalls latest
    preamp offering - A *MIDI* controllable tube preamp named (and this is
    SO funny :) the JMP1.   I wonder whose market Jim is trying to tap into
    here.  Subtle ain't he ??
    :)
    

    Re: reggae & metal
    
    Somebody get Odie a Dread Zeppelin tape! ;-)
    
    I'll take a Marshall and a rack thank you.  
    
    Mike

    
    Greg - it may well be my amp - but when I think of Marshall distortion
    I think of Slash, and personally, I think his tone sucks.
    
    MHO
    -Tony

    I Think that there are many more guitarists out there other than Slash
    that use straight Marshall sounds that get a way cooler sound than him. 
    Last time I saw him playing in a small environment he was using a
    Fender Twin, not a Marshall.   Just think of some of those other
    guitarist other than him,  such as early Burt Weedon, etc...
    
    Don't just judge a sound of an amp on one person.  If I played your
    rig,  it would put you off that for life!!!!8-)
    
    Nigel

    Well  Tone, if you hate the  Marshall distortion, stay away from the
    5150 amp ... it's basically a Marshall on steriods.

    
    Buck,
    
    In all honesty, its not really a case of hating it, its a case of
    finding it unusable at the moment. It may be my amp, may not be I
    guess. 
    
    Horses for Courses I guess,
    -Tony

When I think Marshalls-cords-guitars, I think Angus, and his tone RULES!
jc

    
    
    	Hey Tone, 
    
    	I've got a 100w JCM800 2 x 12 combo (with extra speaker outs) you can
    	always come round and try your git through my amp to see if it is 
    	your amp that's causing you grief....
    
    	J
    
    

    For the record, I disagree that you can't get a processed sound using a
    Marshall.  Listen to Joe Satriani or George Lynch (when he was with
    Dokken).  The basis for their distortion is a Marshall amp and they
    both have a "processed" sort of sound.

>    Greg, I *ass*umed you meant a stomp compressor/EQ.  

    Noise is generally a function of the quality of the equipment you buy. 
    I didn't specify which product, yet you busted on me for recommending
    something that would add noise.  The part you seem to be ignoring is
    that the Mp-1 is extremely noisy in it's "tube dist" voicing, which is
    where you get all your gain and compression.  Why do you expect more
    from other equipment?

>    Seems to me if you added a $500 compressor to a rig, then you be just
>    as much of a rack puke as me... 

    But, the topic of discussion here was how to get more perceived gain
    and/or a "processed" sound from a Marshall, right?  It wasn't "who's a
    rack puke" or "racks .vs. amps".

    Anyway, the difference I see is that if I used a Marshall with some
    external processing gear, I'd still have the Marshall sound I like as
    the basis for my tone.  If that's the sound you want, that's what you
    need to get.

>    Cuz then your need an exciter to bring back the dynamics to the sound
>    you just squished. 

    But exciters don't do anything with dynamics, they increase perceived
    brightness...

>     What about delay, chorus, flange-n-wha ? 

    What about 'em?  I really don't understand what time-based effects have
    to do with this discussion.  Are you saying an "all in one" efx
    box/preamp is gonna make sounds better then separate components?  Not a
    chance, IMHO.
                                                 
>    Dood, If I added all that to a pair of Marshalls (gotta be stereo ya 
>    know), I'd be WAY more broke than I am now...

    You know what my opinion of stereo is, I'm not going to restate it.  

    But if you want to compare prices, you should compare apples and
    apples.  You could get two Marshall heads for the price of your preamp
    and a stereo *tube* power amp.  Sure your SP1000 sounds great, but it
    is not a tube device.  I'm sure you'd agree that it does lack some of
    the tube characteristics (even though the differences may be subtle). 
    For the price comparison to be fair, you have to compare tube Marshalls
    to tube rack gear.

>    And I'd have a wash of
>    noise, cuz Marshalls aren't made for that kind of thing.  

    It seems like you're trying to compare the noise quality of the stomp
    box effects you once used with a Marshall to the digital processing
    gear you use with your rack rig now and that's not a fair comparison. 
    High quality effects will sound good with whatever you use them with
    (as long as you set them up right), that has nothing to do with the
    amp.  If you use high quality effects with a Marshall, you're not going
    to have any more noise then the Marshall makes by itself, which should
    be pretty close to what you'd get with a separate preamp/poweramp
    combination.

    I really can't understand why you keep complaining about noise anyway.
    The MP-1 (with just a power amp) is noisier then any properly operating
    Marshall (by itself) I've ever heard.  Why is it acceptable to use high
    quality effects, possibly including a noise gate with an Mp-1, but not
    with a Marshall?  I don't understand your reasoning.  

    It's like you keep saying a good amp should do *everything* for just
    the price of the amp, but you don't apply the same rules to separate
    components.  It's really not a fair comparison.  An amp head is just a 
    preamp and a power amp in one package, I don't see why it should be
    expected to do more then a separate preamp/poweramp combination.
                                         
>    Bottom line is - Marshalls sound best with a cord and a guitar in front
>    of  'em.  (IMHO, naturally)

    Not *that* I agree with!  8^)  But I still think you're selling them
    short if you think that's *all* they're capable of.

>    Tony is probably looking for a "generic" kind of processed sound that
>    you hear on most pop-metal-type CD's.
 
    Bummer, I'd hate to sound "generic" (I reserve that for my *playing* ;^))

>    Oh, and for what it's worth - I can WAIT to check out Marshalls latest
>    preamp offering - A *MIDI* controllable tube preamp named (and this is
>    SO funny :) the JMP1.   I wonder whose market Jim is trying to tap into
>   here.  Subtle ain't he ??
   
    I have a 15 year old Marshall head sitting at home that says "JMP" on
    the front of it.  Seems like the new preamp name is a pretty direct
    extension of that.  Marshall's use of JMP predates the ADA Mp-1 by at
    close to 10 years.

    Greg