Conference napalm::guitar

    Inflated UK Gibson prices due to money-grabbing UK distributor, perhaps...?
    I think last year they tried to put the price of a LP Standard up to
    over 1000 quid, but they had to back off. They have just tried this
    again (I hope they don't sell any).
    *DC

     I would guess that, IMHO , Gibson's are overpriced, fat necked,heavy,
    outdated, nonlock tuned, one sounded and our demand for such a beast
     is less than Gibsons supply in the USA, therefor the price is lower.
    
    
    
       I know it's a rambling diatribe, but Im a Fender bender.   B*)
    
    
           ( ps. set flame low , as IMHO preceeded my remarks )
    
                   JT

IMHO-- It's a fad-thing,, and Fenders have been hot again for the last
7 or 8 years...

Twas a time though when it was the opposite, It'll probably come back full
circle eventually...

All guitars are over priced to varying degrees anyway..  

    
    
    Hey, the strat's the fad, right now.  Tell you what - ship us back some
    of the Rickenbackers collecting dust in your continental (and U.K.)
    closets and we'll ship some Gibsons your way.  I just wish I knew what
    the next guitar fad was gonna be.  It sounds like Guitar Center is
    selling the Maverick Ultra Strat with locking tremolo for $329 this
    weekend, so obviously, the Recycler's gonna be full of these things in
    two years... (I wasn't paying real close attention to the radio spot;
    if it matters I'll listen more closely.)
    
    I like my Les Paul, but every time I strap it on it reminds me that I
    broke my collar bone 5 years ago.  Every time I hand it to someone I
    stand ready to catch it.  It's heavy, but you forget about that after a
    while.  And it does have more than one sound...
    

Strats---

Les Pauls---

S.G.s----

Reverse Firebirds---

Telecasters----

Wish I had one of each...

But I've already got five, ones a Strat,,, and since I can only play one at
a time (!!DARN!!!) I guess I'll hold off..  Although,, a tele, would be
nice,, make it a pink one,, yeah,, that's the ticket!

    > I got 5...
    
    Jeez Ray, you've got the Ibanez from hell; what more could you 
    ask for?
    
    If I could play guitar, I'd play *that* one...
    
    Edd

<<Jeez Ray, you've got the Ibanez from hell; what more could you 
<<ask for?


'Variety,,, --- The spice of life....'

    Yea, well thanks for that guys.......
    
    I guess that over time I could pick up a nice collection
    at non-ripoff prices!
    
    Or just move to the states.
    
    
    Gary

     Why the rip-off prices? Good question, I have a 1970 or 1971 Les Paul
    Custom and I paid $375.00 for it. In my mind that's all it's worth
    (although at the same time I wouldn't sell it either). It has GREAT
    action, a very thin neck (not like the typical baseball bat type) 
    and the tone...  it's very Gibson sounding! It all goes back to what
    type of "sound, or tone" you're looking for. They (Gibson) tend to
    be very fragile, so I wouldn't think of doing to it what I do to my
    old Strat, but again I use it because of it's tone more than anything
    else. I saw a Les Paul Standard (wine finish...  real pretty looking),
    but had a neck like a telephone pole, not to mention the $850.00 price
    tag on it! SAY WHAT? $1250.00 for a Les Paul Custom w/case? Thanks,
    but no thanks. As far as tone, they have a totally different
    personality from Fender types. If that is the tone you're looking
    for...  go for it! It's the price that'll stop me...  everytime!
    
    		Rock on and keep looking for a good used one!
    
    			Fred (who likes Gibsons too!)

    
    
    .................or get an Ibanez LP copy for about 175$
     same sound ( plus or minus whatever pickups that you install )
     The thing that I can't understand is the mentality of 
     " Its got to be a Gibson (marshall, Fender, whatever)" Are you looking
      for a guitar for investment purposes, or to play ? 
        

>     The thing that I can't understand is the mentality of 
>     " Its got to be a Gibson (marshall, Fender, whatever)"

    I normally wouldn't say anything about a comment like this, because I
    *basically* agree, however having just purchased a Marshall amp I
    thought I could comment on it.  I didn't buy a Marshall amp for the
    snob appeal, I bought it because it sounds and behaves the way I want
    an amp to.  I've had probably a dozen other amp rigs over the past 10
    years and NONE of them have sounded EXACTLY right to me.  The Marshalls
    sound exactly right (to me).  That's the bottom line.

    The same thing goes for guitars too.  You claim that an Ibanez Les Paul
    copy sounds exactly the same as a Gibson Les Paul, but as an owner of
    an Ibanez Les Paul copy, I can DEFINITIVELY say that it does NOT sound
    or feel like a Gibson Les Paul!  The neck is thinner and I think it
    plays nicer then most real LPs I've played, however it just doesn't
    have the same tone.  I've had this guitar for 7 years and I love it,
    but it's not the same as a Gibson (and I don't especially want a Gibson
    right now anyway, so it doesn't matter to me).
    
    Some Fender copys come close in sound and feel, some don't.  I don't
    think a real Fender electric guitar is so much more expensive then the
    copys to make a major difference in any decision I'd be making of which
    to choose.

    Greg

    I gotta bite here too - when I bought my LP Studio, I could have gotten
    a top-of-the-line Epiphone (made by Gibson in Korea or somewhere) for
    about $200 less.  The Epiphone had body/neck binding, and for all
    practical purposes, looked exactly like a NICE sunburst Gibson
    Standard.  However, when you plug 'em in - apples and oranges !  The
    electronics were different, and the *tone* just wasn't there.  The more
    money I spend on stuff, the more I realise that there's usually a good
    reason why a given product is real expensive or real cheap - for the
    most part, you *do* get what you pay for ...
    
    Scary

    I would bet that with the right pickup, you could get that elusive
     "brown sound". And IMHO you don't get what you pay for in the
     case of Gibson guitars. Then again it all depends on your taste's
     and priorities

    This is a bit off the track, but you may find it relates to the
    discussion at hand.  I recently had the chance to demo two basses
    side by side, a Warwick and a Spector, both rather high end instruments.
    They have very similar body styles, construction, hardware, and the
    electronics were *exactly* the same, active EMG P-J pickups.  The only
    significant difference between the two was the wood.  You would expect
    with the same electronics, especially active electronics, that these
    instruments would sound pretty much the same.  In fact, I was quite
    surprised by the difference.  These instruments sounded worlds apart,
    and one was clearly superior to the other.
    
    So I guess, imo, having the right pickup is not always sufficient to get
    a particular sound.

     Notice that I didn't specify which pickups ie: Gibson paf's for
     an Ibanez, I mean that the basic "tone" could be duplicated by use
     of edectronics that conpensate for differences between the other
     factors. I know that you won't make a Hondo sound like a Paul Reed
     Smith, but with modern technology , a good many guitars can be made
     to sound at least similar to what you may want.
    
              B*)

    Anyways Steve Vai will sound as good on a Fernandes as on a Fender
     and Jeff Beck doesn't need no stinkin' electronics for his sound  B*)

    
    Re .15 (SALEM::TAYLOR_J):
    
    >Notice that I didn't specify which pickups ie: Gibson paf's for
    >an Ibanez, I mean that the basic "tone" could be duplicated by use
    >of edectronics that conpensate for differences between the other
    >factors. I know that you won't make a Hondo sound like a Paul Reed
    >Smith, but with modern technology , a good many guitars can be made
    >to sound at least similar to what you may want.
    
    IMHO, you're way out of line. The wood and the way the guitar is build
    has far more influence than you believe. And the use of electronics
    won't get you anything near 'to sound at least similar to what you
    want'. If it was just that simple...but it isn't. The production of
    sound is complicated, you can't describe it just with parameters such as
    frequency response, output, filter characteristics and such.
    
    Poul
    

     Someone who invested in a Les Paul maybe ?  B*)
              and a Marshall
                 
    
    It's my supposition that a decent guitar , with decent action, can
     be run through rackmount effects and have the hardware ie: pickups
     bridge ,potentiometers, ect. changed to approximate most any 
     mysterious "tone". Psychobabble psychoacoustics and BS on
     the elusive tone. Ya' want better tone? Spend a little more time
     woodshedding and a little less at the music store, with cash in hand
     looking to improve your playing. Listen, if you will, to Jeff Becks
     latest CD " Guitar Shop ". I believe the title track say's it all.
     Marshall would love you to believe that they have a corner on the
     tone market, as would Fender,Ibanez, and any other music company.
    
       

    RE: -1
    
    No truer words have ever been spoken ....
    
    
    Scary (in the shed ... out of the stores)

    Re: .18, .19
    
    I disagree 100% with the idea that with the right tweaking you can get
    any sound.  Alright, I'll disagree 99%, because you did say
    "approximate".  Electronics designers have been trying to do this for
    years.  Most of the noters here would rather be boiled in oil than play
    through a solid-state amp, despite claims of "real tube sound" (and
    modern solid state amps are getting closer all the time).  Yet some of
    these same noters would turn around and say that these same designers
    who can't figure out how to emulate a 6L6 can clone the sound of
    another instrument... no way!  
    
    I agree 100% that your *fingers* are the most important part of your
    tone, although certainly the choice of *tools* you use to create the
    tone can make it easier or harder to get it.  
    
    						Brian

     The right tools= BC Rich guitar, Soldano amp and Zoom Processor ??
    
     Nah... A guitar player that wails on a Peavey amp with an Ibanez
     roadsters gonna' have better sounds than Joe Techno equiptment
     playing standard licks.
         Becks equiptment is a little more Basic than C.C. Devill's, but
       I know who would be getting better "Tones" out of his equiptment.
    
      Jon

    Well, I think this debate got sidetracked.  I certainly wouldn't
    disagree with the "fingers over hardware" sentiment.  But that wasn't
    the original issue.  The point is whether there's a difference
    between something like an Ibanez and a Gibson.
    
    Ime (in my experience), electric guitars have a unique characteristic tone
    regardless of electronics.  Put another way, I've swapped pickups in and
    out of guitars for years and have always been suprised by how much of the
    characteristic sound of the instrument remained.
    
    If you're happy with the sound of an Ibanez LP, great... go for it.
    There's nothing intrinsically better or worse about it when talking
    about something as subjective as tone appreciation.  But people who
    say there's no difference between an Ibanez LP and a Gibson (or that
    it's just a matter of pickups) are just as in the dark as those who
    tell you ya gotta have a Gibson to sound good.  It just ain't so.

    Hay, forget the Marshall, go back to the VOX AC30 for some
    real tone!
    
    Gary

     Quote from Chairman Zappa
    
           " Shut up n' play yer guitar "
    
    
    
            B*)

    A friend of mine owns an RD-standard.Kinda looks like an explorer,bet
    more rounded.Anyoone have any info on this old gibson??
    
    -kev
    

    Let's say i had a '68 Les in mint shape...what's it worth?
    Ball-park figure...
    
    -kev

    If it really truly is a '68, it's a Goldtop with 1-piece body and small
    headstock.  With Soapbars (white P90s), about $2500.  With mini-hummers,
    about $1500.
    
    If none of the above, under $1000.
    
    Unless of course it's a Custom
    

    After a Dir/Tit search, i have found that i may be reading theis notes
    file forever in search of the littlebit of info that i need...so  i
    decided against.
    Could someone give me a quick serial number break down of a late 60's
    Gibson (Les Paul if it matters).I'm basically just looking for the date 
    reference. What numbers indicate the year would be great.
    I'm presently in the process of *possibly* buying one. I haven't even 
    seen it yet, but from what i am told it's a '68 and in mint shape.
    This being said in the same sentence with the words of "around $500"
    has really got me going.I think this is another case of "this guy has
    no idea what he has and i'm not about to tell him."
    Thanks in advance.
    
    -kev

    I'll try to dig up some more specific info, but generally speaking
    Gibson serial numbers of the 60's and early 70's are inconclusive.
    They re-used numbers a lot, and it's a rare case when serial number
    alone will nail a year for you; you usually have to look at other
    physical features (as per my previous reply).
    

    Can anyone tell me the value of a Model L-00 Gibson Sunburst Limited
    Edition guitar?  Also, is there any stores local to Metrowest that either
    buy and sell these, or could give a value?  Thanks.

    
    Regarding the L00, What year is this guitar and what condition is
    it in? 
    
    There are tons of stores that deal in Gibson and can provide an
    appraisal. The appraisal will vary depending on the store. Some
    dealers to consider for this include the following:
    
    	The Music Emporium (Cambridge)
    	Mr. Music (Alston)
    	Cambridge Music 
    	
    You can also have this appraised via mail by sending 1 or more photos
    to George Gruhn, The Mandolin Bros, Lark Street Music, etc. Include 
    the serial number and any other details that might affect the price, 
    including any flaws that are not visible in the photo. 
    
    If this appraisal is for Insurance purposes, let them know this and 
    ask them to estimate the replacement cost. Most dealers will charge
    a small fee for this service. ($10-$20 is customary). They will
    generally quote the price a little on the high side. 
    
    If the purpose of the appraisal is something unrelated to insurance,
    the price may be slightly differant (lower).
    
    Many things affect price quotes. Some of these things are intangible.
    For instance, many dealers will tell you your' instrument is only worth
    n dollars, then they will try to buy it off you for that amount. George
    Gruhn will not play this game, especially if you tell him that the
    appraisal is for insurance purposes.
    
    Mark

    I don't know what year it is.  It was appraised at $1400;  I wanted to
    see if this was in the ball park as I don't know about them.  Thanks.

    Is the L00 the same as the Robert Johnson model? If so, I've seen
    these selling brand new for ~$1500. These have a 12-fret neck and
    very round body shape. The lower bout is almost circular. Personally,
    I think these are way overpriced for what you get. Then again, check 
    out Martin's pricing!!!
    
    Mark
    

    Isn't the RJ/L00 also known as the Blues King?
    
    Actually Martin's 000-16 sells for just over $1000 through most of
    the larger Martin dealers.  This would be the closest regular 
    Martin model (smaller body, mahogany sides and back, all solid
    wood) to the L00.  If $1500 is the going price for an L00, then
    I guess the Martin is a bargain...
    
    If you want high prices, check out SCGC or Collings ;^)
    Then again, they may be worth every penny:  I thought my first 
    Martin was such a bargain, I bought two more.

    
    Jim's right, the L00 is the Blues King. I should know, I own one.
    As far as I know, the Blues King lists for $1200 but retails for
    around $799. Blues Kings have maples sides, back and neck. Mine
    is gloss black, but I've seen others with natural tops as well
    as sunburst finishes. Blues Kings also have 14 fret neck attach.
    
    The Robert Johnson model is not the L00 after all (my mistake).
    Maybe it's an L0 or somesuch. At any rate, it has the older-style
    rounded lower bout, and the neck attaches at the 12th fret.
    These are part of the Historic Collection and are therefore
    priced higher than you would expect. I believe it comes with
    a certificate of authenticity and has a special serial/series
    number. I've seen these selling for $1500 which IMHO is way too 
    high. The 12-fet neck is a disadvantage for modern playing styles. 
    If I'm not mistaken these have mahoghonay sides, back and neck.
    All in all, your paying for the Robert Johnson name. 
    
    On a side note, I've seen advertisements for a special Robert
    Johnson model guitar made by none other than Valley Arts. It
    is an exact replica of his guitar and I believe that Valley 
    Arts is paying some royalties to Robert Johnson's heir's in
    exchange for their endorsement. The ad implies that Gibson
    is using RJ's name without the permission of his heirs and
    thereby exploiting him. Acoustic guitars is not exactly
    Valley Art's Forte!!
    
    Mark
    

Re: Robert Johnson heirs - It was my understanding that there was a lot of
uncertainty whether RJ *had* any heirs.  I suspect that RJ did sow some wild
oaks in his time, but there were no clearly identified children.

Jim

    RE: 2188.37, and maple sides
    
    My understanding is that there are currently two Blues King models.
    The L-00 Blues King has mahogany sides and back, and lists for $1399
    (per Acoustic Guitar and the Elderly Instruments catalog (at least
    the mahogany part).  The Blues King Electro has a pickup, cutaway and 
    maple sides and back.
    
    Mark, do you have the Electro model, or am I confused?
    
    Jim 

    Jim, mine is not the Electro model. It is the L00. It is finished
    in gloss black. I guess it is made of mahogany. 
    
    Mark