Conference napalm::guitar

    Barry,
    
    Not sure where you're noting from, but here in the eastern Mass area 
    many clubs have two, three, or four bands per night.  If the same
    situation is prevalent in your area, how about playing one or two sets?
    You might get your collective batteries charges and at the same time
    take the music you've developed for a test drive.
    
    Regards,
    John

    Barry,
    
       You might try to increase your practice time - If you have the
    extra time.
    
       I've had this same problem in my last band, I think alot of it
    had to do with not practicing at home. We practiced 3 times a week
    (which got old real fast) and it seemed the only times that most
    people in the band practiced; was "at practice".
       Another thing I found, was that we never did enough originals.
    I thought it kept a fresh thing going when we'd work on new material.
    
       How's the bass coming along? send me mail...
    
    John

    
    
    	A bit of tried and true advice:
    
    
    
    		Spend the first hour or two of EVERY session playing
        the material you "think" you know.  It will become boring and
    	monotonous, BUT, so can constant gigging.
    
    		Stick to this agenda, because results are what matter.
    	Before long you'll be banging out all 23 songs in about 1 3/4 hrs.
    
    		Add another ten tunes, work in some breaks, greetings,
    	stories etc.....and your ready for a four hour show!!!
    
    
    						Good luck

    You may not believe me, I think the best thing you
    could do is book a gig. One in the near future.
    
    Nothing whips a band into shape better than having a 
    goal. That and fear of major embarrassment. You won't
    believe how much you'll get done. If there's no 
    pressure, you'll never think you're ready. Yeah, 
    there will be make mistakes, but once the adrenaline 
    kicks in, you'll remember songs you haven't played in
    weeks. Hell, you'll probably even remember a few you've
    never played.;0
    
    -Tom

    Yeah, I think I could write a book about putting a band together having
    bashed my head against the wall so many times. I call the situation you
    describe the "gotta get outta the cellar" blues. As a part-timer, you 
    can practice the bejesus out of your material. But until you get in
    front of an audience, its all just the same as masturbation. 
    
    I'll keep this one short, if for no other reason than it's gettin late 
    Friday afternoon, and a few friends are gettin rowdy to go out and get
    our attitude adjusted for the coming weekend. Here's my perscription:
    
    Barry, if you got half the tunes you need go ahead and get a get a gig
    - any gig, paying or not - in Feb. You'll be amazed at how fast each 
    person including yourself starts "sportin a woodie" about what you're
    doin.  And then once you play in front of that frenzied crowd and rip
    the notes right outta your axe, the drums are smokin - you'll realize
    that you had your mistakes, but no one knew or cared. Even if you all
    hit you parts right on, you ain't the best they've ever seen, and even
    if you muffed some, you ain't the worst. Just make 'em *and* yourself
    have a good time.
    
    "sakman"    

    RE: .4
    
    Yeah.  What he said.  Also a great band-whipping-into-shape-tool ?
    Book some time at a studio.  After it's all over EVERYONE should
    know the stuff inside and out.
    
    jc

    
    There are some good points here, well taken. There is one approach that
    we have been following, but have not stuck to it as well as we should.
    As previously suggested, a rehash of the tunes we know, at the start of
    each practice. That has been a help. We should get back on track with 
    this.  A third practice in the week would probably do a lot of good,
    too.
    
    I think though the point about applying the pressure (ie a gig, fairly
    soon) would probably be the best leverage to get us tuned up.
    
    Thanks for the advice, guys.
    
    
    	B

    
    Here's another idea for those short of rehearsal time:
    
    Maek up a couple of "band master tapes."  If you do covers,
    put all of them on cassette.  Listen to those cassettes!
    
    If you can't practice whenever you want, your players can
    whip their tapes out at home and practice to those.
    
    BD
    

    YOu said you practice 5 hours/week.  Is this 5 1hour practices, 1 3hour
    and 1 2hour, or 1 5hour, etc.?  I would say that the 3/2 hour split is
    the best combination.  1 5hour isn't enough, and 5 1hour accomplishes
    nothing (by the time you get started, it's time to end).
    
    Chris D.

    
    Chris, it's an even split pretty well. Two nights a week, about two
    to two and a half hours each night.
    
    B

    An idea mentioned previously in this conference (or maybe in MUSIC) is
    to have the band practice just the beginnings and/or endings of the
    tunes you already know.  Most problems tend to happen in the first or
    last 15 seconds of a tune, so have a practice regimen that just goes
    through those parts.  You can run through your repertoire very quickly 
    and keep it fresh that way.
    
    								Marc

   << Now to the problem, I think. Frustration is swelling a bit because 
   << we have been practising for about 5 months now, and are still not 
   << ready to go out and play


clearly, if you've been together for five months, and still aren't
ready,  I think something is wrong somewhere.  

how are you conducting rehersals ???  (Guests ?  No Guests ?  Are people 
'performing' or are you all trying to work together ?  How is the volume ? 
---Loud, Moderate, Low ?)

   << If we go about learning a couple of new tunes
   << over the period of a few practices, and then go back to something we
   << haven't run over for a week or so, there is a good chance that someone
   << will forget the arrangement, ending, or whatever. 

Previous replies have advocated the use of tapes..

****yes ABSOULTELY, *Definetly* get tapes circulating if you're not
doing it now....

However, each musician has to commit to *using* those tape.  

**Learn your parts BEFORE you go to practice.   If one of you feels there
stumbling, go back to that tape on his/her own time, and smooth it out.
You don't need to be with the rest of the band to stay mentally ontop of
your own parts.

This is all an obvious assesment, sure, but you wouldn't believe the number 
of people  I've talked to who confuse "rehersal time" with "song learning time".

(Editorial comment:)
NOTHING would jarr my a$$ more then making the tapes, and making the copies,
sometimes even delivering the copies to other memebers houses, THEN
spending the time it required for ME learn a song, then spend  hours on
building the right patch or sometimes, patches,  work on coordinating
patch changes during the song... then learn my vocals..

only to have half the guys show up not even knowing which key the 
*^%^&$% song was in.  >:^|


Secondly,  (pure conjecture on my part here..) I'd suggest making sure 
that the material being picked is well within each musicians range of ability. 

It's just not economically smart (timewise) to spend three or four
nights pounding one song into submission.  In that time, you
could have possibly knocked off half a dozen.  As your band matures you
WILL be able to take on progressivly tougher tunes.  In the early stages
though, you have to gague your material.  Anything that takes longer then
two pratices to get right, shelf it.

Also, just an opinion based on my experience...

Typically, we'd always play a four set night, with sets lasting roughly
45 minutes...

On the avearge, we'd run about 9 to 10 songs per set.  so based on what 
alot of the clubs around these parts require, you may need at least 40
songs to be safe. 

Then there's the human juke box syndrom.  night after night, running thru
the same tunes, the same order,,   O.k. for a while, but eventually..

So, over time, keep learning new songs, keep as many current as you can.  
Last band  I was in Started in like 1981, and ended in Late 1990.   We had 
roghly 200 songs that we amassed in those years.  On any given night, we could
have done any one of 100 of those songs, with a little forewanring, and
pratice time, we could shuffle that 100 up a bit, adding maybe a dozen more..

This allowed us the ability to change our set lists every night, and
at times, during Friday/Saturday night jobs, we'd do *both* nights,
without playing a single song twice during the entire weekend.  It kept
things a little fresher for us,  than in some previous bands I was in.

One other thing,,, Keep all lines of communication open.  I yo've got
a gripe, then deal it to the person(s) the gripe is with.  Be straight
ahead, and be adults.. It'll make the comradere of the group last longer..

I know this is a late reply, I've not had much time to note in here
lately...

Best of luck, and yes, go out there and get some jobs,, -- break a leg.

    I think the aboslute best advice was given in .4: Book a gig.
    
    Everything Tom said has been exactly true/on-the-money in my
    experience.

I disagree with "book a gig" I've gotten burned by this too many times by 
bands that seem to work the way .0's is...what happens is the last 
couple rehersals prior to the gig get spent rehashing crap like cocaine,
lay down sally and two thousand blues shuffles that all soudn the same.

There's some pressure to do this in the band I'm currently trying to rehearse
to gigable condition. I share all the frustrations of .0, with this band. I
make tapes that some people probably haven't even listened to, no one can
agree on a song to learn most of the time and when they do, half the band 
doesn't bother, instead it seems to be left up to me to learn their parts
and teach them at rehersal. After several months of rehersal we've got a 
whopping 16-17 songs that we "sort of know". And now we've got the "book a
gig"  so I can motivate myself syndrom coming down...personally I rather 
quit than go that route at this time.

FWIW

dbii

    I figure, when you've been in a band over 2 months, you should *know*
    whether it's ever gonna fly.  Bands are like family ... and sometimes
    you love your relatives, but you can't stand to be in the room with 'em
    for too long.  
    
    If a band has about 30 songs, that are in pretty good shape, I say book
    a gig for about 4-6 weeks away.  Plenty of time to weed out the crapy
    stuff and hone the good ones - adding more all the time.  If 3 weeks
    pass and folks aren't "doing their homework", then you have time to
    cancell the gig, and do some soul searching concerning the band.  If
    it's just jamming, no big deal, but if you *ever* want to play clubs
    and get paid for it, it becomes business (you have to decide to what
    degree).  And, as a business, you can't go on operating like this.
    
    Scary

IMHO..

You don't have enough material, and you probably wont in the next comming 8
weeks with the rate you seem to be going to do a whole night, or
muliple nights.  If you do get the material, it'll be crammed material, 
and if your having a hard time now,,,  

I'd assume no ones doing this for the bucks, rather the fun of it
with the bucks being a significant side effect.

And,,, If this isn't fun for the musicians, it's not going to last.
Don't put undo pressure on something that is a basic form of relaxation
and enjoyment for the band members,  You'll find, over time that you'll
have plenty of pressures on you, don't put any on yourselfs.

If you really want to test the waters, try this...

Find a band that your band has a freindly/or aquaintence relationship
with..  

Let that band know you want to run a party with them, so you guys can get
some exposure.  The perfect condition is that this other band
*is* established somewhat, already..  (helps the draw) They do half the
night, you do half the night split the take in appropriation
to expenses...  You ought to have enough material to do this.
It's up to you, to come out slugging, when it's your turn to play..

You can expect a crowd in direct proptions to the amount of leg work you
do promoting the party.  It'll be up to you to keep them there.

    
     SO.......I'M NOT ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
     Putting a band together SHOULD be a fairly easy thing with properly
    motivated players. GOOD LUCK......If just one member is doggin it
    you're doomed.
     
     Being in a band is a b*tch. I've been through this too many times so I
    can sympathize with the sentiments of the previous notes. Most musicians 
    I've run into want to play out NOW and need the pressure of gig to get 
    ready. I think its crap (just my opinion).
    
     I've been the bozo who did all the taping for band members who then
    didn't work on the agreed tunes. I also taped practices which afforded
    me (and anyone else interested) to determine weak spots and improve
    in a relatively short length of time. I must say that most band members
    didn't always bother but it still helped immensely when they did. I
    tried out for a band and gave them a test. *I* recorded tunes that we all 
    agreed to learn for each guy and when not all of them showed up knowing
    them I kissed 'em off. My time is too precious to waste on dead ends.
    
     'Forgetting' tunes is a lack of practice. If you practice tunes enough
    you'll never forget them in my experience.
    
      One note said something like 'Hey, after 2 months you should see the
    handwriting on the wall'. I agree 100%. The difficulty is that you end
    up NOT PLAYING. 
    
      I USED to 'go to the ends of the earth' to be in a band. Not anymore.
    I am working to do recording projects with my 4-track with 'sit in'
    players (Like Alan Starr did for GuitarNotes 2  tape , had a drummer do
    his part and leave). I'm working to improve my playing, singing, etc. at 
    my own pace and to the level I'm interested in. IF the right people come 
    along and want to do it up I'll go the band route. Until that time I'm
    not going to deal with everyone elses problem. Some folks have told me
    I want too much. Thank you very much......now you're getting the
    picture. I want to do something GOOD. There are too many bands just
    doing it.
    
     Ray had a good compromise.....do a half gig with an established band.
    I would still question their toughness but everyones different.
    
     - Bob
    

    Welcome to the club. When a group of musicians really clicks it is
    probably one of the greatest experiences on earth. Unfortunately,
    musicians bring to their music all of the personal baggage they carry
    around in the rest of their lives, and as a result most bands
    eventually wind up being painful experiences for everyone involved.
    That's one of the main reasons why after playing in bands for 25 years
    I started playing with a sequencer last year.
    
    Consider this: our lead singer and I (there's only two of us) just
    started working together a few months ago. We went out and performed a
    3 hour gig with less than 6 weeks of rehearsals, and received a very
    good response. This was not "Cocaine" and "12-Bar Blues", but a wide
    variety of contemporary Top-40, classic rock, popular standards,
    country, etc. We already have about 70 songs in our repetoire and are
    actually trying to eliminate stuff as fast as we can. This is quite the
    opposite of any band I have ever worked in.
    
    I admit, I did start with a fair amount of material I had put together
    with a previous group, but that's one of the benefits of having the
    stuff sequenced. You don't have to start all over again from scratch
    if and when the personnel in the group change. And even though we only
    rehearse once a week for about 3 hours, I do quite a bit of preparation
    off-line in terms of writing sequences, getting down lyrics and music
    for new songs, learning guitar parts, etc. But this is completely under
    my control, I can do it at home as time permits, and I don't have to
    coordinate with 5 or 6 other people every time I want to do something.
    
    This clearly isn't for everyone, and I don't mean to suggest that
    people should quit their groups and buy a sequencer. If I really had a
    choice I'd much rather be playing in that imaginary group with a bunch
    of great musicians and great people. But for me this approach has
    proven quite satisfying, and I think it's an option that other
    musicians should be aware of, especially if they are into it part-time.
    I like to think that as the technology evolves it is going to force
    musicians to start being more mature, responsible and *creative* in
    order to keep employed. YOU *CAN* BE REPLACED BY A COMPUTER!!!
    
    	- Ram

    I think one of the most important band "skills" you can develop is
    the knowledge of when to call it quits. (Most of us have had a lot
    of practice!)
    
    While dedication is commendable, sticking it out bravely in order
    not to be tagged a quitter isn't doing anyone any favors. Is this
    band meeting YOUR needs? (Do you know what YOUR needs are?) Being
    in the wrong band is far WORSE than not being in one. Examine what
    you want, and then try to objectively identify if this band can
    deliver. Don't be surprised if it can't. Most bands don't work out.
    
    ...and be honest. If you make a tape for people to learn on their
    own time and someone shows up regularly without a clue, call them
    on it. There's a world of difference between not knowing the solo
    note for note and asking "What are the chords?" The first scenario
    at least indicates some effort, the second alludes to non-chalance.
    
    Don't let friendships get in the way. As -.n pointed out, you can
    love your family and not want to be in the same room with them.
    No matter how much you like these guys, if you're not satisfied
    with the progress, you are the one who has to make the change.
    If they can't take the criticism, they ain't friends. If they ARE
    friends, your decision won't effect that friendship.
    
    It's good to see you looking for advise, but don't forget that you
    have a good head and can make the best decision...
    
    Edd

	Interesting...

	Looks like alot of people are relating all of a sudden.
	Yeah, being in a band can be great - and I refuse to
	write them off for my personal future.  But it's obvious
	that there's almost always too many problems.

	In addition to the already stated problems - there's the
	personalities to deal with.  The people in here so far seem
	to be the stong, hard working, leaders who are sick of the
	lazy slackers.  Funny - when will the ones who are guilty of
	holding everyone else back reply to this note?

	Anyone see themselves?

	If you're the strong leader MUSICALLY, be careful.  You can
	lead all you want BUSINESSWISE - deal with agents, book the
	gigs, lick the clients, get cards printed, arrange for the
	video, etc... - and you'll be appreciated.  

	Just DO NOT be the "ears" of the band and drive the music!!
	
	It's an impossible task.  I honestly believe that the Beatles
	broke up because Paul wanted to be great and the other 3 wanted
	to get stoned.  

	So, the SECRET is to join a WORKING band and take on all the
	responsibility of getting up to speed yourself.  

	The alternative is re-rehearsing HANG ON SLOOPY...

    >   Funny - when will the ones who are guilty of
    >	holding everyone else back reply to this note?

    >	Anyone see themselves?
    
    
    	See .19 about knowing when to get out...
    
    Edd

    Do people really NEED to practice songs like Hang On Sloopy?
    
    C'mon...
    ;^)
    
    Now Donna Lee...
    
    B., who knows when to GET OUT...

    
    So I'm not alone in this situation, after all. I was getting a little 
    concerned about this, cuz I've never had "band troubles" like this 
    before. I've played on and off now for 26 years, and never had these 
    hassles in the early days. It's just since I've started getting back
    into it full tilt, in the last 4 years, that I've had *any* kind of 
    music/band related problems.
    
    You guys have given me a lot of great input. Thanks extremely large!!
    
    I think what I'll do is take this all back to the boyz at practice
    on Thurs. nite. We'll have a good bull session, and hopefully come 
    out the better for it.
    
    Thanks again,
    
    B

<<We'll have a good bull session, and hopefully come 
<<out the better for it.


If you have a serious discussion, you will...

I would suggest at this bull-session that you try to get inside everyones
head. Once again, find out just what everyone wants to do, what are the 
personal goals of everyone in your band.  

To know who wants to just muck around, play a few odd gigs,
have some fun make a few bucks, and who wants to take a serious shot at
doing this full time, recording aspirations, etc.. is imperative to understand.

Last band I was in lasted the better part of ten years.  We had our lot of
problems, but because we all kept talking, keeping feelings above
board, and we all shared the same common goals, all the problems we
did have, were outside the pressures.  

There were very few, if any, internal problems.

best regards;
/ray

	Set goals. Booking a gig is setting a goal. Agree on the goals
	and those that can't keep thier end of the bargain should be
	replaced. If you don't run your band as a business, you'll never
	get out of the basement/garage.

	I (like Ram Sudama), prefer to limit my working to musicians and
	singers who actually work as needed. I sequence a lot & have
	major control over the efforts. What I do works for me, and may
	not for you. The big thing is that I have set goals and stick
	with them. So what do you want to do? You decide. It's your time,
	and once it's gone, you can't get it back.

								Jens

>	In addition to the already stated problems - there's the
>	personalities to deal with.  The people in here so far seem
>	to be the stong, hard working, leaders who are sick of the
>	lazy slackers.  Funny - when will the ones who are guilty of
>	holding everyone else back reply to this note?
>
>	Anyone see themselves?

    Yeah, I do...
    
    I have been in bands before where I would get disinterested and allowed
    myself to slide.  What I should have done was just quit.  After a few
    experiences like that, I did start quitting when I felt things weren't
    happening for me.  No sense in giving everyone else a hard time, eh?
    
    						Brian
    

    re: .-1
    
    I think Edd hit the nail on the head when he said that one of the most
    important band skills is "knowing when to get out".
    
    I think it's also important to know "when not to get in".   I've joined
    a few bands only because I was out of a band and wanted to get back in
    quickly.  The right thing to have done would've been to wait until
    the right band came along.
    
    	db - who's now in the "right" band

re:27,,

ya every now and then Cote tends to amaze one with his views on life..

Right Edd !

    I've been lucky...
    
    ;^)
    
    Edd

    More problems with band discipline...or more specifically, with
    building up our set, I'm afraid!
    
    We've now been practicing for a couple of months and although
    circumstances dictate that we can only get together every ten days
    (which probably isn't ideal), we seem to be making reasonable progress.
    In between rehearsals, we have a system whereby we exchange
    cassettes and lyrics/chords of the new songs so that band members can
    become acquainted with the material and save time at rehearsals.
    We play a fairly down-to-earth guitar-based band (2 guitars, drums,
    bass) playing anything from the Kinks to the Buzzcocks so there's no
    great difficulty in learning complicated arrangements. So far so good.
    
    And so to the problem. We've had considerable friction (for want of a
    stronger word!) within the band re. the issue of choosing the songs.
    I'm adamant that we should steer away from playing the more obvious
    covers (e.g. I'd prefer to do Gotta Get Away by the Stones rather than
    Satisfaction) but that's possibly because I listen to lots of music (In
    fact, I "listen" better than I "play"!!). The drummer and bass player
    are fairly easygoing on the subject, but the other guitarist, good
    musician that he is, just wants to play anything that comes into his
    head...provided that HE chooses it.
    
    Things came to a head last week. I'd distributed the lyrics/chords to 3
    songs (by the Saints, the Jam and the Housemartins) and given a copy of
    the cassette to each band member. Mr. Ego Tripper turns up at the next
    rehearsal not having learnt one of them and suggesting we try a song by
    X (the Californian punk band) which I happen to like, but that's
    neither here nor there. 
    
    Oh, in case you think I'M trying to impose my will on THEM, the score
    now stands at 10-1 in his favour with regard to songs contributed to
    the set! Can you imagine what it'll be like when we start coming up
    with some originals?
    
    Suggestions as to how to resolve this family conflict, please. I can't
    believe more people don't have this problem.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Dom

    
    	Geez, this one's pretty easy.  Just have a rotation system with
    	a few, easy rules.  First, each member picks one song at a time
    	so, in your case, you get every fourth tune.  If it's your turn
    	and you don't have the cassette, lyrics, and chords it's forfeit
    	time for you.  Your type of band would dictate the general type
    	of music.  For some bands, it's gotta be popular, current, and
    	danceable.  For others, it could be offensive, shocking, and
    	unlistenable ;^)
    
    	Easy, right?
    
    	Tom
    

    This is a common enough problem, but not one that I have seen as an
    issue.  The only time that the band I am in tend to have problems is
    regarding the style of songs we play!  One argument is that we a re a
    pub band and should play whatever the punters want to hear.  The other
    argument is "We play good, uptempo type material, that is well enough
    known, and also take other songs that were wannabes and do our own
    arrangement to make them into great songs"...
    
    As for learning songs it should be majority vote...
    
    Bob
    (As long as everyone remembers that I am a majority...8*)

    Re: .30, .31
    
    Tom has a good idea.  You can have any of a variety of ways to pick
    songs from "everyone gets to submit n songs a week" to "you can submit
    a song and if n members don't like it, we don't do it", etc.  What's
    important is that you *agree* on the rules. 
    
    It also helps if you have a clear agreement on what kind of songs fit the
    band's style and also when is it OK to trash a song if it gets negative
    audience reaction.
    
    The biggest problem in my opinion is that singers tend to dominate song
    selection in most bands.  That is, if a non-singing member brings in a
    song perhaps none of the singers will want to do it (or can't, i.e.
    out of their range).  This segregation of singers vs. non-singers seems
    to be pretty common.  Best defense if this is your case is to start
    singing!
    
    						Brian

    Be flexable...

The way See No Evil does it is democracy at work. We started with a listing
of about 60-80 songs that everyone nominated. Then we just went through each 
of them and had a show of hands of who wanted to do what. We ended up with
16 song that had 5 votes (out of 5), made a tape of them, and now we're in
the process of learning those tunes. After they're done, we'll go on to the
songs that had four votes each. By that time, we've learned 30 new songs, and
we can start the process all over again, keeping things fresh for everyone.

alan

    I had mentioned in another note that I put together a band every year
    for one gig in late May. Because we have little time to prepare 30 or
    more numbers, each year at this time I submit a list of about 60 tunes.
    I collect suggestions over the year from each band member, but many of
    them are just tunes I'd like to do. Since almost all the tunes are
    vocals, we then go through  a process of "auctioning " them off to the
    singers. I usually have a particular singer in mind for each tune, but
    sometimes the singers surprise me. We have usually had four singers,
    but this year we have just two, which both simplifies and complicates
    things (easier choosing, but we have to drop or modify tunes with
    complex harmonies or backup parts.) Songs that don't make the cut are
    usually recycled to next year's list. If after a few years they're
    still there, I usually delete them.
    
    From the first time we did this, I've had "Layla"  on the list and each
    year, none of the singers has wanted to do it. So last year I deleted
    it. When I circulated this year's suggestions, one of the singers put
    it on...
    
    ... but of course, he wants to do the lounge lizard version (please, no
    cards and letters. I actually like it, but not as much as the
    original.) From my viewpoint, this will be as satisfying as doing
    Dylan's version of "All Along The Watchtower," rather than Hendrix'.
    Our one inviolable rule is that we never repeat any tunes, so once we
    do this version, the other is lost to us.
    
    Still, compromise is the name of the game. At least, no one wants to do
    "I Will Always Love You" (on the other hand, I couldn't get anyone to
    do "Gangstah Bitch"--maybe next year:-)). We always do several tunes I
    hate, but I generally get some of the weirder tunes I like into the
    playlist, so it tends to cancel.
    
    As for .30's problem--I don't work with people like that. Any working
    band I've been in has had to have some reasonable, non-ego-driven
    method of selecting tunes, or I have no interest in being a member.
      
    
    Danny W.
        

    This gets me to thinking... is the selection of material the only
    problem you (collectively) have with this individual, or, once this
    problem is resolved to everyone's (his) satisfaction, will his
    uncooperativeness and/or need to disrupt surface somehow/where else?
    \Gary

    Our band uses the blackball approach: one no vote is sufficient to
    scratch a song.  The reason is there are an infinite number of tunes to
    play; why do tunes that someone in the band doesn't like?

    
    
    
       My crystal ball says...
    
       Your future will be dark unless you can get him 
    to do a solo using an electric drill. When he turns 
    to put it down, give him a lobotomy.  
    
       But really. Not having played in a band,  I can 
    only say it sounds like things will always be difficult
    with this type.  (Start looking.)
      
    
       Marcus Welby
    
    

    Well, thanks for all the help; to be sincere, I didn't expect such a good 
    response. 
    
    I spoke to the drummer (who's a reasonable sort of fellow) on the phone
    the other day and put forward some of the suggestions that I'd seen in
    this conference, at least the ones that are applicable to our
    situation, I refuse to set out with the specific goal of playing what
    the punters want to hear, as I feel that a similar attitude can only
    result in a situation where 99% of all bands play the same music:
    Cocaine, No Woman No Cry, Blues Brothers medley, Twist and Shout (going
    into La Bamba!), Stand By Me, Honky Tonk Women, and for an encore...
    
    
    
    ...Johnny B. Goode and Rock Around The Clock! 
    
    The upshot is we're going to get together some time next week and
    decide which solution to adopt. I bugs me for two reasons:
    
    1 - I felt we'd already talked enough about what musical direction we
    were going to take - if the singer had any qualms, he should have
    spoken up at the right time.
    
    2 - It's a shame to have to make rules and regulations about such
    things...but if people behave like a**holes!
    
    Let you know how it goes.
    
    Thanks for the tips,
    
    Dom 

    The world is 5 billion people all trying to have things their way.
    
    It didn't use to be... there was a time when there were considerably
    less people, but the problem was the same.  That's why they invented
    civilization... aka, The Rules.
    
    If everyone was honest, there would be no need for locks on doors.  
    If everyone all wanted the same thing at the same time, there would be
    no need for rules or governments.  Everyone would just get on with it.
    
    Looks like you need rules.  So get on with it.  No need to feel guilty
    about it.  Rules may not be fun, but music should be fun, and you are
    not having fun, so nothing to lose.
    \Gary
    I could be wrong but if I thought so I wouldn't tell you anyway.  ;7)

    The difficulty of getting people to do the band thing is getting people
   who are with 'the program' whatever it is.

    My experience has been that you agree to 'the way it is' from the beginning.
   You agree on what your going to do and how you're going to do it and then
   execute the plan.

    Some folks lose interest, didn't understand the plan, etc. IF one guy is
   sticking out like a sore thumb, you're in trouble. The alternatives aren't
   pretty: you do what he wants, you do as everyone agreed or some folks get 
   replaced (it could be you).

    The 'everyone picks a tune' works well but this has to have some limits.
   Depending on where the band is trying to play can be severely limiting
   as to material. Some stuff just don't fit.......

    Can you replace the guy with a machine? ;-) yuk yuk

    - Bob