Conference napalm::guitar

    Yo !
    
    COMET eh ?
    I saw a 12 string strat at ProSound about 5 days ago !
    
    Seemed fugly as sin, but I bet it's pretty nice.
    
    Check it out !

    I've seen pictures of the 12-string Strat. If I remember correctly,
    the headstock is 12 on a side....yeck!!
    
    In my opinion, if I was in the market for an electric 12-string,
    it would have to be a Rickenbacker.
    
    Another company that makes excellant 12-strings is Carvin. Carvin
    uses their 12-pole pickups on their 12-strings, which gives them
    a really full sound. Most people playing 12-string are looking for
    a sparkling clean sound. It wouldn't make much sense to play one
    with distortion.
    
    If an electric/acoustic is what you want, Ovations and Takamine 
    have the best amplified acoustics (both 6 and 12 string) IMHO.
    
    Mark
    

        If you're  looking  for  an electric 12 string, I can recommend
        from personal experience,  the  Ovation  (my  old  [immaculate]
        Custom Legend 12 is in Daddy's, Manchester) and the Carvin twin
        neck which replaced the Ovation.    Both  are vary good (IMHO),
        but I still have no regrets  about  replacing  the Ovation with
        the Carvin.  The 12 string side  is  _perfect_  for  sound  and
        playability.  In the current Carvin catalogue, they show  a  12
        string  solid  bodied  electric - if you're interested, get  in
        touch  and I can give you the details - I  might  even  have  a
        spare copy lying around...
        
        Andy
        

    I've seen a 12 string Fender Strat at Bizarre Guitar in Phoenix.  It's
    black with a white pickguard, maple neck.  Nice!
    
    Mike
    

    
    The 12-string Strat is relatively new.  Fender has made very few electric
    12s, there was a 12-string Coronado semisolid and the Jazzmaster-like
    Fender XII solid body, both from the late sixties.
    
    The Strat has 12 saddles on the bridge and no whammy.  Pickup, etc.
    seem to be the usual.
    
    						Brian

    RE ;-2 or so...
    
    Does Carvin sell a 12-string electric?  If so, what do they cost.
    I have seen the double necks, but when I bought my Carvin (which, 
    it pains me to admit,  was about 12 years ago) they had 6/12 double 
    necks, but no plain 12s.
    
    I'd like to buy an electric 12, if I could find one at a decent price.
    

>                   <<< Note 2056.6 by GLASS::ALLBERY "Jim" >>>
>                                -< Carvin 12?? >-
        
        From the current Carvin catalogue:

        DC120 Specifications:-
        
        Rock maple neck-through-body
        Smooth neck-to-body heel
        Tone enhancing poplar wood body sides
        1.71" wide @ nut, 2.28" wide @ 24th fret
        24.75" scale
        24 jumbo frets (1/16" guaranteed action)
        Premium ebony fretboard with 15" radius
        Mother-of-pearl block inlays and side dots
        Carvin ultra-smooth 16:1 ratio machine heads
        M22N and M22T humbucking pickups
        A500G Active Electronics:    Pickup  select  switch, Pickup Pan
        control, Master Volume, Master Treble, Master Bass, Dual/Single
        coil switch for neck pickup,  Bright  boost  switch  for bridge
        pickup and Phase switch
        Built-in headphone practise amp
        Chrome hardware standard
        Standard colors:  Jet Black, Classic  White, Ferrari Red, Pearl
        White, Pearl Red, Pearl Blue, Clear Maple.
        
        Options
        Black Chrome hardware
        Gold Hardware
        Inline headstock
        Lefthand model
        + full option list (custom colors/body shapes/headstock  shapes
        / Koa wood etc., etc.
        
        DC120 direct price: $729
        

    Built in headphone practice amp?  This must be something new for
    Carvin...have they just goosed the preamp so they can drive an 8 ohm
    headset?
    
    							Brian

        That would  be  my  guess  - maybe a separately switchable gain
        stage with enough  oomph  to  drive  phones...    They sell the
        active package separately as  a retrofit option, but don't give
        any additional details regarding the headphone amp.
        
        Andy
        

Headphones only need perhaps 1/50th the power as a speaker. The damn thing's
practically IN your ear.
							John.

    re .5
    
    No whammy on 12 string. Good move.
    
    I played a Fender Electric XII once (about six years ago). It
    was a repair that I worked on. Strung for 6-strings. I was 
    surprised to discover that it played and sounded really nice. I 
    toyed with the idea of acquiring one and using it as a 6-string. 
    But this is a 12-string discussion, isn't it.
                                                                    
    --rjb

    
    Fender had trouble moving the XIIs so a bunch of them were modifed to 6
    strings at the factory and sold under the name Fender Custom.
    
    							Brian

    The neck on the custom featured the same enlarged headstock, but
    was only drilled for 6 tuners. Looked weird. 
    
    A neat custom job would be to *find* a Fender 12-string neck, and
    a Fender "Custom" neck, and make a double-neck guitar out of them. I
    saw a custom-made Fender double neck once(In a magazine), which had 
    a Fender 12-string neck, and a Strat neck. Belonged to some country
    $h!+-kicker !!
      
    Mark  (12-string electric guitar = "Rickenbacker")
                                                     
    
    

    
    Ya, thats the guy from ALABAMA.
                                              Mark
    

    Also saw such a XII/Strat that was made for Don Felder of the Eagles
    (all parts except the new body were from original Fenders).  
    
    Ibanez used to make a weird Strat/Jazz Bass double neck, wonder if they
    also did a 6/12 Strat?
    
    Speaking of Alabama, that guy Jeff Cook endorsed Peavey for awhile, a
    doubleneck 6/12 Hydra guitar was available in purple as the Jeff Cook
    model.  They also made a straight 12-string, the Milestone 12.  I used
    to have the  6-string version, it was a Strat style body set up with
    twin humbuckers.   Luthier Harvey Citron gave the Milestone 12 high
    marks in a GP review. 
    
    							Brian

>    Luthier Harvey Citron gave the Milestone 12 high marks in a GP review. 
    
    I don't understand, Brian.  What was the scale?  (1-20?, 1-100?)  
    
    Thanks,
    Greg

    Back to the '65 vintage Fender XII, I've always been
    curious about the pickups. Anyone know anything about
    their construction? I always thought they were made with
    two bobbins and coils. Where they wired out-of-phase
    for hum cancelation? 3 pole pieces to a bobbin? They 
    sounded clean, anyway.
    
    I didn't have the nerve to dismantle the one that I worked
    one. But I was tempted to after I plugged it in and 
    listened.
    
    BTW, the Fender Custom was indeed UGLY!
    
    Ron
    

    Re: .16
    
>                              -< 12 high marks? >-

>    Luthier Harvey Citron gave the Milestone 12 high marks in a GP review. 
    
>    I don't understand, Brian.  What was the scale?  (1-20?, 1-100?)  
    
    No, no, the guitar model is Milestone 12. He liked it, OK?
    
    						Brian

    
    Johnny Winter used to play a Fender XII (Custom?) before
    he switched to Gibson Firebirds WAAAYYY back. I know that
    it only had six strings, but I'm not sure if it was originally
    a six or a twelve. It had two sets of split pu's, staggered like
    a P-bass, but they were smaller. They looked exactly like the pu's
    on the old el-cheapo Fender Musicman bass, which had plastic covers
    and no exposed pole pieces. Probably just a straight magnet. Don't
    know how they were wired, but I betcha Brian Rost could tell us.
    I believe JW used that guitar on his first album recorded for
    Columbia in 1968 with Tommy Shannon on bass and Uncle John? Turner
    on drums. I think. Anyway, it sounded great through that stack o'
    Twins he had.
    
    Neal-having-a-memory-dump
    

    re: Brian
    
    Oh...duh.  Boy do I feel like an idiot.  Sorry about that...
    
    Milestone 12, high marks  .vs.  Milestone, 12 high marks   a vast
    difference.
    
    Sorry,
    Greg

    I just bought I Fender Stratocaster XII.  I'm really pleased with it.  
    The electronics are probably identical to a standard strat (3 single
    coil pickups, 5 pos switch, master volume and two tone controls).  Mine
    is a metallic red and has a rosewood fretboard.  Start XIIs are made in
    Japan.
    
    The sound is, not suprisingly, like a strat, only with twelve strings.
    The middle pickup or the middle/bridge combination give you a sound very 
    similar to a Rickenbacker 12.  I spent a couple hours playing Byrds
    stuff last night, and it sounded real authentic to me.  I'm fighting
    off the urge to change my name to Roger... 
    
    My only complaint is the string retainer on the headstock.  Its a
    little block of metal (about 1" x 1/4" x 1/4") that is located right
    above the nut.  Eight of the twelve string pass through holes in this
    block (similar to the string trees on a regular strat).  The problem is
    that the strings tend to stick, making tuning (never much fun on a
    twelve string) a real bear.  I am hoping some graphite will cure this.
    
    On the plus side, I love the sound, and the feel of the neck.  The best
    feature was the price-- I got it for $435 with a tolex-covered
    hardshell case.  List is $870.  (My wife even wrote out the check--
    I'm a lucky guy.)    Considering what else is on the market
    (Rickenbackers are $1000 and up), this seems to be a real bargain
    (maybe this should be in best buys).
    
    Last week was a big one for me.  I bought a '67 Fender Deluxe Reverb
    and the Strat XII.  I may be going through GTS withdrawal.
    
    Now to learn the words to ALL of the verses to "Mr. Tambourine Man."
    
    
    Jim

Well, I just gave in to GAS....and I'm not the proud owner of a Strat 12.
SInce it didn't come with any information, I wa wondering if anyone out there
had any or a pointer to where I might obtain it.  Im particular I'm wondering
if there is any reason I shouldn't tune it to concert pitch (as I do for my
Ovation 12).  Would I get anywhere by calling Fender?

BTW, the serial number is Q003975.  I know it was made in Japan, but anyone
have a clue as to the year?

- Mark - now with 3 twelve strings :-)

    I tune mine to pitch without ill effects.
    
    Jim

    
    Most electric 12-strings may be tuned to concert pitch with no ill 
    affects. Non of the problems associated with *acoustic* twelve strings 
    (ie: neck-set problems, bridge lifting, and buckling of the top) apply
    to solid body electrics. Fender necks tend to be among the more stable 
    electric guitar necks mainly because they are made of rock maple. 
    
    I would suggest that you use light gauge strings on it to keep the 
    tension low. 
    
    Mark 
    

I called Fender the other day (602-596-7195) and talked with a nice guy named
Phil.  He was able to fill me in on all sorts of information.  In particular,
the Guitar left Fender (for the customer) April 6, 1994.  He also said I should
have no problems tuning to concert pitch.

Finally, he said that for $5, I could get a copy of the owners manual.  FYI,
the address is:

	Fender Literature
	7975 N. Hayden Rd.
	Scottsdale, AZ  85258

- Mark