Conference napalm::guitar

    If you don't get a response in here, you might want to try the COMMUSIC
    notes file too.  There are many musicians there that don't read this
    one that might be able to help you.
    
    Greg

    
    I'm in the market for a noise gate, anyone have any recommendations 
    for a decent unit ? 
    
     Thanks, Larry

    Larry,  I'm not sure what you plan to use it for, but I have never
    had much luck working with noise gates. Some people swear by noise 
    gates, Others swear at them! If a noise gate is really what you need, 
    I have heard very good reports on Ashley, Rane, DBX, and Rocktron. 
    My impression is that if you truly need a noise gate, and you want 
    the best, Ashley is the way to go.
    
    DBX still makes the 1/2 rack series of studio boxes that can be
    mounted side by side for a 1-space rack unit. Each 1/2 rack unit
    can be used as a single mono channel, or they can be strapped to
    another unit for master/slave operation. This is used when you're
    running in stereo and want both channels to see the same threshold
    and attenuation. The series includes the 263X noise gate, 363X 
    de-esser, 463X over-easy compressor, and 563X single-ended noise 
    reduction unit (these model numbers are from memory and may not be 
    exact). The 563X single-ended noise reduction unit is also known 
    as the "silencer" and is mainly intended for eliminating hiss. You 
    may find that the 563X does what you need it to do, and works better 
    for your application than a true noise gate. Most noise gates have a 
    hard-knee threshold and tend to "chatter" if the signal is hovering 
    around the threshold point. Some are more sensitive to this than others. 
    
    Mark

    If wide-band noise is the issue, perhaps a "single-ended noise
    reduction" device like the Rocktron "Hush" would be more appropriate.
    Both noise gates and single-ended wide-band noise reduction are
    available in stomp boxes if this is a guitar application. However...

    I only use noise gates on drums these days... I use a "human noise
    gate" on everything else; specifically, I work on the signal chain
    of what I'm recording to make it as noise-free as possible without
    using any "artificial" gating. Even the VCAs in my recording console
    are used as sparingly as possible. Noise usually means a problem,
    like an out-of-whack gain structure. Fixing the noise is infinitely
    preferable to masking it. Just one man's opinion... and worth
    every cent you paid for it.

    -b

    I agree with Brian. Like I said, I have had little or no success
    with noise gates. However some people swear by them. For recording
    from a guitar amp, many people advocate using an SM57 mic, into
    a noise gate, into the recording console. I assume this is what
    Larry want's is for.
    
    Mark 
    
    

    
    I guess I should have probably stated that my intentions were for 
    live gigging.  Sometimes I get a fair amount of hum depending upon
    the ground situation and the lighting.  I'm not sure I want it either
    so I'm going to toy around with one this afternoon at Daddy's and 
    see what they're all about. At home, my guitar & amp are very quiet.
    Where we practice on the other hand, there's no 3 prong outlets and 
    I get a lot of hum - probably also due to my closer proximity to the 
    amp as well.  So at this point, it's still just a thought, not a
    definite need.
    
      Thanks for the help, Larry

	Larry - page 17 of the latest Musician's Friend has
	something called the EBTECH Hum Eliminator for $54.99.
	
	"A quick and easy way to eliminate AC hum and noise.
	Insert the Hum Eliminator in the line level signal
	path after your preamp and it will break the noisy
	ground loop without degrading your signal.  Includes
	1/4" TRS smart jacks that convert automatically back
	and forth between balanced and unbalanced lines.
	Made in the USA."

	Can anyone explain how this would be used with a
	combo amp?  

	I used to have tons of problems with flourescent
	lighting.  Also, those dimmer switches.  Would this
	eliminate the hum??

	Hope this is what you're looking for, Larry.

	Tom

    
     That sounds like exactly what I need.  I'll have to check around 
     locally and see if anyone has one of these to check it out.  
    
      Thanks, Larry

    
    	Hmmm... looking closely at the box, there are 2 inputs and 2
    	outputs.  But it also says "WARNING: Never use 3 to 2 prong
    	AC adaptors or electrocution may result".
    
    	Tom
    

    $55 ????
    
    Aside from the thing about converting between balanced and unbalanced,
    I suspect that this thing is merely an opto-isolator and I've read
    articles that have said you can get the same thing from Radio Shack
    for under $20.
    
    Now... I'm not claiming to be an expert in these matters so if any
    of the EE types would chime in, I'd love to hear what they had to say.
    
    	db

re:     <<< Note 1985.11 by DREGS::BLICKSTEIN "My other piano is a Steinway" >>>

    $55 ????
    
    Aside from the thing about converting between balanced and unbalanced,
    I suspect that this thing is merely an opto-isolator and I've read
    articles that have said you can get the same thing from Radio Shack
    for under $20.
    
Well, let's see.  A good die-cast aluminum box will cost you at least $10,
depending on what size you need.  It'll cost you $8 or so for four
Switchcraft TRS jacks.  You'll need a power supply of some sort.  Some
profit needs to be made of course.  $55 doesn't sound so unreasonable to
me.  What exactly is this Radio Shack thing for $20, do you know?  I'd
be curious to check it out.

-Hal

    RE: -.1
    
>Well, let's see.  A good die-cast aluminum box will cost you at least $10,
>depending on what size you need.  It'll cost you $8 or so for four
>Switchcraft TRS jacks.  You'll need a power supply of some sort.  Some
>profit needs to be made of course.  $55 doesn't sound so unreasonable to
>me.  What exactly is this Radio Shack thing for $20, do you know?  I'd
>be curious to check it out.

    Well Yeah, If you build it yourself... 
    If you built a Corvette from parts, you'd pay over $100K not including
    the money you spend on extra labor (can't do everything yourself),
    and rental of tools/machinery for the project. 
    
    Take something like a compressor pedal selling for $60. Music dealer
    probably pays $40-$45 dollars and marks up 33%-50%. The distributor
    (if theres one involved) may pay $30-$37/unit. The manufacturer
    probably gets around only $30, but that's OK cause in batches of
    5,000 units, it probably costs mo more than $15 to design, build,
    package, and market that unit. Let's see an everyday joe build a
    BOSS CS-3 for 15 bucks. Even ff I could I would I probably wouldn't.
    The $60 product has high reliability and a warranty. 
    
    Anyways, on to the issue at hand...
    
    If your practice space has no 3-prong outlets, I'd complain to to 
    management. If it's a friends house, I'd see about the band chipping 
    in to have an electrical contractor bring a few circuits up to date....
    especially if you practice in a damp cellar with cement floors!!
    
    To help eliminate AC hum in general, I use a Power Conditioner.
    It protects all equipment plugged into it from power surges and
    lightning, and smooths the sinewave a bit. It also eliminates RFI from
    the mains so that any frequency  greater than say 100HZ is isolated.
    This makes it so that noise from flourescent/neon lights don't get in
    (unless they come in through the wireless mic whose receiver is
    next to the neon beer sign). Other advantages of MY Power Conditioner
    are that I can see the actual line voltage coming in (it won't change
    it, but it will let you know if it's 'safe' to power up your rig), and
    it gauges the current running through the unit so you can tell if
    you're running too much power and close to blowing a fuse/circuit
    breaker in the house. It also has a conveneint 8-way power strip.
    My unit cost $150 (and doesn't have those pull-out dimming lights).
    A little pricey for a power strip, yeah, but I think I'll save at least 
    that much in not having to do repairs on my mixer, power amps, DSP
    circuitry, etc. Hell, One good lightning surge COULD cook $4000 worth
    of PA/audio equipment, and shut me down for the night, or perhaps
    longer... I like that $150 insurance policy.  8-)
    
    Sorry my suggestions require some cash...
    
    Larry (and sorry about my rambling and PMS today...)

    I gotta agree with Larry, Larry...  Get those grounds fixed.
    
    When I was a reasonably young pup I was horsing around with my 
    guitar in the basement, concrete floors, PV Mace with the third prong
    cut... and I was wearing slippers.
    
    Well, a storm rolls in and lightning hits the pole on the corner
    or something (I mean it was CLOSE).  *I* took a hell of a hit from
    the resultant surge too - from the finger tips of one hand to the
    other.  I was a pup so it didn't kill me, but it certainly had my
    heart pumpin' for a while.  Ground your stuff...

    > Well, a storm rolls in and lightning hits the pole on the corner
    > or something (I mean it was CLOSE).  *I* took a hell of a hit from
    > the resultant surge too - from the finger tips of one hand to the
    > other.  I was a pup so it didn't kill me, but it certainly had my
    > heart pumpin' for a while.
    
    ... "And I knew, that day, that I would grow up to be the
    moderator of the HEAVY_METAL conference..."
    
    -b

    Yes!
    :-)

It would surprise me if you were getting an opto-isolater for $55.
Digital Opto-isolation is easy (every MIDI interface is suppsed to be
one, so that the MIDI cables don't become a ground loop to your audio
path), but undistorted audio opto-isolation is much harder, because it
requires lamps and receivers with predictable, if not linear transfer
characteristics, and therefore a lot more circuitry to keep the signal
intact.

The description, to me, sounds like a simple "ground lift" device.
Sometimes lifting the ground eliminates hum - sometimes it adds it.  If
a "ground loop" is really the source of your hum, lifting one of the
grounding paths will help. So, you try it both ways and go with the
quieter of the two.

For a few dollars, R/S has a line-level transformer isolator that
breaks any DC path (or high current path) between two pieces of
equiement, which is another way to break a ground loop.  (It comes as a
stereo RCA cable with a cylindrical lump in the middle.) If you put
different connectors on it, you could also use it to create a balanced
line signal from an unbalanced one, and keep your shielding intact.

However, if you are just picking up the ambient magnetic fields from
nearby amp power supplies or flourescent light ballasts on your
instrument pick-ups, the only solution is to stand further away from
the source of the noise.  (Guitar pickups are very sensitive to the
surrounding electromagnetic environment.  I once adjusted a pickup on a
strat using an electric screwdriver while the amp was on.  The
resulting sound of the magnetic field of the screwdriver being picked 
up on the guitar pickup coils was, well, astounding.)

    
    Well, I wrote off the noise gate and ended up getting a wireless 
    instead.  So now I won't get zapped if I touch the mic, and I can
    walk as far away from my amp as I need to.  
    
     Thanks for all the tips, Larry

    You're welcome. I picked up a cheapo SAMSON SR2 (single diversity) 
    wireless for a hundred bucks several years ago. I've been zap-free
    for a long time now. 'course I'd need a better receiver if I gigged.
    
    If you don't mind replacing batteries frequently, those 9v rechargeable
    (NiCAD 7.2v) batteries work for abour an hour or so. Great for use at
    practice. At a gig, use a fresh Alkaline or Lithium, and bring spares
    in case you leave the transmitter on all night in the guitar case.
    Also bring a spare instrument cable in case the wireless goes down
    or has too much interference.
    
    Larry (The quotes the boy scout motto everyday) 

    
    You CAN get true 9v NiCads - they are expensive, but the work GREAT!
    I've got one made by DuraCell and it lasts 6-8 hours...
    
    jc (who's transmitter has an auto-off feature thats very cool)

    I should pick up a couple of those when I get my new Beta87 wireless.
    ...That's assuming I can still afford batteries after I buy that mic.
    Bloody mic is worth more than my car!
    
    Larry

    
    I had a NADY Wireless a couple of years ago.  Played a gig and while 
    I'm driving home, my radar detector keeps beeping every other second
    or so.  Turns out that I left the wireless transmitter turned on. 
    Serves as a great warning to check the on/off switch.  I ended up
    buying one of the new Samson VLX units, it isn't the True Diversity
    model.  Sounds great so far, and I won't be doing any long distance 
    feats with it so it should fit the bill nicely.  If it proves to be
    an issue, I'll upgrade to the TD model.  They claim an 18 hour battery
    life.  So far, I've done at least 10 hours on the same battery and it's
    still going strong.  
    
     Having fun, Larry

    Well, there's a wierd thing about wire-less units and being too far
    away from your amp.  Basically, it's not the wireless range thats the
    factor, it's the time it takes the sound to get to your ears from
    the amp when you fret a note.  It'll REALLY mess with you.
    :-)

    Reminds me of a David Lee Roth I saw in about 1987. Two-thirds of the 
    way back in the auditorium a boxing ring was lowered and Dave sang
    Panama from there. He was out about 350' or more in front of the mains,
    and actually had to sing everything about a quarter-second before it
    sounded like he should. The timing was still screwey, but he tried
    to compensate at least. Didn't matter though, the sound 
    and the band blew for most of the show anyways.
    
    If you're gonna run wireless guitar/mic at a considerable distance
    from the sound source, think about setting up monitors at the
    destination or consider wireless headphones.
    
    Larry

    
    	Ouch!!
    
    	Steve Vai does NOT blow, nor does Billy Sheehan.  8^)
    

    I saw that very tour - Loved the band, but Diamond Dave *was* having
    his problems... To the point he started pounding the crap out of the 
    (live) mike and threw a hissy...
    :-)

    FWIW, I saw Frank Sinatra in the same room just a couple-a days after
    Dave, and the sound was good, albeit *much* quieter. Saw VH last May
    at Worcester, MA Centrum and thought the sound was excellent!
    
    RE: last few:     I didn't say the band blew, I said the sound blew!
                      
    Larry

    
    >to compensate at least. Didn't matter though, the sound 
    >and the band blew for most of the show anyways.
    
    
    	Well, I did pretty well in reading comprehension back in school.
    
    	8^)
    

    Wow! I wrote the thing and still saw what I wanted to see!
    
    I kept seeing "the sound OF the band". Substitute OF for AND and that's
    my sentiment.
    
    Larry