Conference napalm::guitar

    I've had better luck alternating the pick direction as you play the
    notes, just as if they're all on the same string and you're playing a
    scale.  I never tried it before recently (a year or so ago) until I
    read that that's the recommended technique.  It felt very odd at first
    but soon feels better.
    
    I still think some stuffs works better sweeping in one direction, but
    to have a general purpose solution to the problem, alternate direction.
    
    Will

    
    Do you mean alternate picking ? Thats what I usually do for most stuff,
    but sweep picking is much much quicker for arpeggios. If you don't mean
    AP, then I'm confused!
    
    Buck, I know you're into (or al least where into) this stuff. Come on
    dude, gimme some help here!
    
    -Tony

    What can I say???
    
    The best way to practice sweep picking to is practice it!  Slow and
    steady...it wins the race.

    
    By slow, you mean like just take slow sweeps so that your left hand
    fingers don't have to move too fast and gradually build up speed with
    the sweep (and therefore the left hand) ?
    
    Ascending sweeps seem to be a lot easier than decending sweeps.
    When you do a decending sweep, there seems to be much more right hand
    resistance.
    
    The bigest problem seems to be either unwanted string noise or avoiding
    gettng the notes 'clustered' so that they don't ring out like a chord.
    I've been trying this now for a few days solid, and I don't seem to
    have made much progress - I gues I should start taping the sesions and
    listen to see if I have actually made any.
    
    thanks,
    -Tony

    First, I'd star tout by muting the strings with the left hand, and just
    working on getting the right hand used to sweeping back and fourth
    across the strings.  It should be a SMOOTH motion...it should feel like
    it's no big deal.  Once you get used to the right hand motion/feel
    against the strings, I'd add in the left hand arpeggio and try and sync
    them together...I think at this point the rate of success would be a 
    bit easier.
    
    B.

    I think what I had read was driving at was this:  If you build your
    technique to alternate pick everything, then when you're in an
    improvisational situation, you don't have to think about *how* to pick
    something.  You just do it because you do everything the same.  So you
    concentrate on *what* you're playing innstead of *how* to play it.  You
    play music, not pick patterns.
    
    See what I mean?
    
    For me, I still use sweeping on some stuff because it lends a certain
    sound.  But I have learned to other well enough to see the benefit.  If
    I'm not trying to play too fast, I can ignore my right hand altogether
    and concentrate on what I'm play in terms of notes.  There ceases to be
    a difference between arppegios and scales, etc.
    
    It works for me, If I don't need the speed at the time
    
    Will

    
    Thanks Buck.
    
    I had actually done some practising with a sock (clean!) tied round the
    neck to avoid the string noise - I figured that once the right and left
    hand get a bit more in synch, it will get cleaner (the technique, not
    the sock). I'll try your suggestions tonight - thanks.
    
    Richard, I do see what you're getting at, but again - in an 
    improvisation scenerio, alternate picking can get kinda boring. I've
    started trying to play some stuff with more up strokes just so it gives
    it a different 'feel' to it, rather than just straight up-down-up-down
    etc...
    
    Anyway, I'll still be trying to get this sweep technique down by the time 
    I'm 25!  
    
    Cheers,
    -Tony

    It's definitely one of thsoe tecniques that just 'clicks' overnight.
    Keep at it!
    
    RE:  WIll
    
    Alternating picking is cool, but sometimes I wanna play arpeggios at
    warp-speed ala someone stroking a harp...you GOTTA use sweep picking
    then, or else you have the most bitchin alternate picking in the 
    world!  ;^)

>    Alternating picking is cool, but sometimes I wanna play arpeggios at
>    warp-speed ala someone stroking a harp...you GOTTA use sweep picking
    
    
    No doubt, that's what I do, too!  My alternate picking ain't THAT
    bitchin!
    
    Will
    

    Could someone please explain what sweep picking is.  Also could you
    include some examples to listen to,
    
    Thanks P.K.
    

    
    
    Sweep picking is where you play an arpeggio (ie a broken chord) but
    with one fluent stroke of the pick (either up or down), instead of 
    picking all the individual strings.
    
    In my opinion, its very difficult, and is prone to lots of unwanted
    string noise. the main advantage of sweep picking is that it can be
    performed extremeley fast (much faster than could be picked normally).
    
    For examples, check out speed demons like Yngwie Malmsteen, Paul
    Gilbert (in his 'old' days), Vinnie Moore, Chirs Impelliterri and Tony
    MacAlpine. Oh yes, and Bill Buckley  8^).
    
    Cheers,
    -Tony

There are three problems with sweeping that you have to overcome 
before you want to use it anywhere besides your bedroom (with 
headphones).

	1. Noise
	2. "ringing" notes
	3. Uneven note values

I'm still working on trying to get the noise level down.  It is 
much, much better now than it was when I started, but my sweep 
picking is still significantly noisier than my alternate picking.  
I use a right and left hand muting technique to try and keep the
noise (and some ringing notes) down.  But, I don't think that's
the answer because the right hand actually moves across the strings
generating it's own noise.  Maybe you need to do it all with your
left hand - I don't know.

Ringing notes can be fixed fairly well by "rolling" your fretting 
finger(s) along with the sweep and ensuring that each note is fretted
for the note's duration. You can't just leave your left hand stationary
while your sweeping some chord because everything will ring like crazy
and you might as well just strum the chord.

Uneven note values can be fixed only with practice, practice, practice -
and a metronome.  The only trick I've found that helps is to play
phrases in different ways (straight 8th or 16th notes, triplets, 
fives, etc) and make sure all those sound even. 

I think sweeping is great for arpeggios; but I wonder how useful it is
for much of anything else.  (Oh sure, I've seen/heard Gambale play..and I 
can guarantee I'll never be able to sweep like that).  I'm in agreement 
with Will (.6); if you're not inhuman, sweeping is good for certain spot
applications, but alternate picking is probably the way to go in general.

steve

    Throw away those nasty picks and use classical guitar technique. 
    

    
    Well, I practised for hours at sweeping, and finally got my ascending
    sweeping to a point where I can sweep an arpeggio much faster than I
    could ever pick it, but its still not as clean as it could be. I found
    that picking (or sweeping) over the NECK made it alot easier (ie at
    about the 24th fret).
    
    As for descending arpeggios - They're impossible! (having said that, I
    thought the same aboput descending arps a couple of weeks back).
    
    -Tony (still working at it)

    Here's a cool 3-octave descending arpeggio I often use which involves
    sweep picking...feel free to use and abuse it:
    
    D Major:
    
        po  sl        sl           po
    e-22--17--14--------------------------
    b------------15-----------------------
    g---------------14--11----------------
    d----------------------12-------------
    a-------------------------12----------
    e----------------------------14--10---
    
    po = Pull-off
    sl = 1st finger slide
    
    Buck

    
    Thanks Buck, I'll let you knmow how I get on.
    
    Cheers,
    -Tony

>    Sweep picking is where you play an arpeggio (ie a broken chord) but
>    with one fluent stroke of the pick (either up or down), instead of 
>    picking all the individual strings.
    
    I'm confused (yes, again).  Forgive my ignorance, but I don't see a
    difference (in this definition) between sweep picking and strumming.
    How about some more clarity?
    
    Mike
    

    I thought that the intent with sweep picking that only one note be
    sounding at a time, when you strum you let them all ring.
    
    Greg

    
    RE: -1,-2:  Yeah, I believe that's right.  If you're sweep picking
    correctly, nobody should be able to tell by listening to you that
    you're sweeping (?) other than possibly by your incredible turbo-speed.
    And only then if they're guitar players in the know.
    
    I got to meet Frank Gambale recently.  I also got to sit in the first
    row of a very small auditorium for an impromptu concert which he gave. 
    The guy IS amazing.  However, after being blown away by his playing
    technique and walking out of the auditorium, what was running thru my
    head was endless note upon note upon note upon note going fast, fast,
    fast, fast.  I guess what I'm trying to say is I lost the 'music'
    somewhere in all those notes being played at light speed.  So.. my
    conclusion after that experience was that sweep picking has a time and a
    place but you have to know when to forget it as well.  I heard an old
    Les Paul record he did with Chet Atkins, Chester and Lester, and on
    that record I think it's Les doing these blistering appregios but how
    he applied them sounded alot more like music that what Frank was playing. 
    
    Sweeping?
    
    b.

>>...was endless note upon note upon note upon note going fast, fast,
>>fast, fast. 

Yeah, I've had the same impression of him.   It sure is impressive gymnastics,
though :), and he does sweep very cleanly; if you're not watching, it's hard
to tell what he's sweeping and what he picks normally.

BTW: if you want to hear some pretty speedy arpeggios that (I believe) are 
picked with strict alternating picking, listen to Tumini Notes from Steve
Morse's High Tension Wires album.  I figured out the intro part this last 
weekend and it is mostly arpeggios with a couple of chromatic ideas thrown
in (as you might expect from Morse).  I'll post the part that I've figured out
if anyone is interested in it.

steve

    
    re: sweeping picking 'definitions'
    
    You are basically stroking all the strings, but very quickly fretting 
    individualy notes of an arpeggio with the left hand, so they all sound
    individually, as apposed to ringing out together.
    
    Any better ? 8^)

    
>    You are basically stroking all the strings, but very quickly fretting 
>    individualy notes of an arpeggio with the left hand, so they all sound
>    individually, as apposed to ringing out together.
    
I've been misunderstanding the definition, too.  I've been sweeping for years 
and never knew it had a name.  Ya learn something every day, if yer not 
careful.

Bob

    
    Guitar player had an article a while back on sweep picking,
    featured Frank Gambale of course. It might have some
    exercises that could be useful. I know I have it
    at home and can dig it out if you think that might
    help.
    
    This is easier with the fingers, or on classical guitar.
    Sometimes I just run my third finger down a chord. If
    it's done smoothly enough it sounds like each note
    being picked fast.
    
    Bob

    Re: -1
    
    Bob, I'd appreciate a copy (I don't get GP)!  My mailstop is PNO/A6.
    
    Thanks,
    Mike

>    Alternating picking is cool, but sometimes I wanna play arpeggios at
>    warp-speed ala someone stroking a harp...you GOTTA use sweep picking
    
    Buck, I suppose this means you haven't heard "Tumeni Notes" on Steve
    Morse's "High Tension Wires"?
    
    That's done entirely with alternate picking!  I 'seen it myself.
    
    	db

    Nope...I don't do Steve Morse too often.  He's awesome, but i just don
    have any of his stuff!

re: - last couple.

Yup, I thought he was alternate picking those ...  He's playing the arrpegios 
in triplets at 205 bpm or there abouts - depending on how accurate my metronome
is.  You could probably play them faster by sweeping them, but you'd never get
the same sound; incredibly clean and well-defined.  As I mentioned in one of my
earlier replies, I have transcribed most of tumini notes and would be willing
to post the intro part if anyone is interested.  That would give you an idea of
what he's doing.

steve

    
    	No Steve Morse?  Get some!

    -1
    
    Well, I have been on this Anti-chops kick of late.  No Morse, Yngwie,
    Becker, Friendman, Vai, Satch, or any of those dudes have been in my
    ears for quite some time now.  I'm listening to more texetural
    players...getting into the less-is-more/feel approach.

    >players...getting into the less-is-more/feel approach.
    
    Maybe you should whipout the old 2EZ - Raise The Stakes tape...
    Thats got a LOT less type stuff...
    
    ;)

    re .29
    
    Neil Young, Buck?

re : Note 1968.29                      Sweep Picking                         29 of 31
    
>    Well, I have been on this Anti-chops kick of late.  No Morse, Yngwie,
>    Becker, Friendman, Vai, Satch, or any of those dudes have been in my
>    ears for quite some time now.  I'm listening to more texetural
>    players...getting into the less-is-more/feel approach.
    
    I give up! I just can't keep up with these guitar heroes! Okay,
    who are Becker and  Friendman?
    
    Rodney M.

    Jason Becker and Marty Friedman were in a mega-guitar band called
    Cacophony.  They were on Mike Varney's Shrapnel lable, and released
    two albums as a band, and solo albums respectively.  They are both
    shred-MONSTERS!  The band split up...Marty is playing with Megadeth,
    and Jason has gone onto the David Lee Roth gig (replacing Vai...WOW!).
    
    B.

    I've been listen to Joey Tapolla,it not the speed it the notes of
    the sweep he ends on with alot of whammmy bar.But for alt. sweep
    picking at warp speed the man to listen to is Paul O' Gilbert the
    cool tech. 		
    			P.I.

    
    Hey, I was just listening to "Out Of The Sun" today, too.  Some 
    cool stuff in there...
    
    J.

    Buck,
    
    I think Morse is really in a different catagory than all the rest of
    the "burn and shred" players.
    
    The vast majority of his stuff doesn't "sound" like it requires a lot
    of chops.  Take for example, "Country Colors" off the new album.  It
    sounds like it's easy to play - it uses artificial harmonics, but what
    you find out when you TRY to play it is that while it's easy to play
    "the notes", it's nearly IMPOSSIBLE to get them to sound "right".
    
    For most of Steve's stuff, his chops not only aren't "on display",
    their sorta "hidden" behind the music.  I guess you could say that
    he makes it "sound" easier than it is a lot.
    
    You should get the new album.  WHile it's definitely a "guitar album",
    it is really oriented towards guitar textures and layers and tones,
    and not chops.  "Tumeni Notes" is about the only song that is really
    dependent on flash.  There are isolated "flashy" parts, but IMO opinion
    all the other songs are not even remotely dependent on flash.
    
    The guitar textures on this album are really incredible - the most
    artistic use of the guitar synth I've ever heard in terms of creating
    soundscapes and such.
    
    	db

    
    
    re: .-1
    
    	Gee, Dave, your not prejudiced or anything, are ya? :-)
    
    -T
    

    re: .-1
    
    I claim that if you played examples from Morse, Yngwie, Becker,
    Friendman, Vai and Satch to someone who didn't know them, and asked
    them to pick the guitarist that was most different from all the others,
    I feel like it's obvious that he'd pick Morse.
    
    For one thing, all those guys have a very clear and obvious connection
    with heavy metal.  Morse does not.
    
    But that of course, may reflect a prejudice of some kind.

    >I claim that if you played examples from Morse, Yngwie, Becker,
    >Friendman, Vai and Satch to someone who didn't know them, and asked
    >them to pick the guitarist that was most different from all the others,
    >I feel like it's obvious that he'd pick Morse.
    
    If WHO played the examples?  I mean, if you had a bunch of CDs there,
    and played them, sure, Morse's tone would shine though as 'considerably
    different', but, if you're saying that some dude guitarist with his
    Ibanez and his Boogie sat there and played examples from each
    guitarist, I don't specifically think anyone would select Morse as the
    'most different' from the lot.  I mean, in contrast to Morse's super
    melodic lines, Marty Friedman vocabulary of exotic modes and phrasing
    would probably stike my ear as the most distinct voice of the lot.
    
    JMHO

    Bill,
    
    I'm pretty much talking about the whole picture: composition, note
    selection, tone, etc.
    
    Understand that I'm not saying that he is better than anyone else,
    or more original than anyone else.  
    
    All I'm saying is that I don't think he can be properly grouped with
    the guys you happened to mention.
    
    Anyway, I agree with what you said about the conditions of the test
    and the results.

    
    
    Dave, 
    
    	I'm just bustin' your chops. Frankly, I haven't heard may of the
    "guitar heroes", so to speak. About the only one I can really say
    I've listened to is Paul Gilbert (w/Mr. Big). I wouldn't know Steve
    Morse's playing unless he was standing here playing it in person..
    
    -Tom
    

    
    	Ever heard "Remote Control" on the ABC's Wide World of Sports"?
    	I might have the show mixed up, but we've all heard Morse.
    

    Morse is relatively amazing, and I can usually pick out
    his stuff; he's unique for sure.

    E-----8--11--8-
    B---9----------
    G--8-----------

    Woody Woodpecker theme song!

    E--2-2-3-5--5-3-2----------2--2--------
    B-----------------5--3-3-5-------5-5---
    G--------------------------------------
    D--o-----------------------------------
    A-----------4--------2--------o--------

>                              -< What do I win? >-
    
    A wood pecker!
    
    Amazing, I wish I could do that by ear!  How about this sweep:
    
    E------------------------------------------------------
    B---------9--12--9--9----------9--12--9--9--9----------
    G--------9--------9--9--------9-----------------------9
    D-------9-------------9------9---------------9--9--9---
    A----11--------------------11--------------------------
    E--12--------------------12----------------------------
    
    I think that's right ;-)
    
    Mike

    -1
    
    Taps (or whatever that Bugle lick is they play in the Army, etc.)
    
    Actually, I hear it more as:
    
    E--------------------------------------------------------
    B-------9-12--12-12-9---9---------9-12--12-12-9----------
    G------9-------------9-9-9-------9---------------------9-
    D-----9-------------------9-----9--------------9-9-9-9---
    A---11------------------------11-------------------------
    E-12------------------------12---------------------------
    

    >                 -< either way, they're good sweep exercises >-
    
    Agreed!
    
    Here is a neato sweep excercize (or lick is you can use it):
    
       G Dominant 7                              C Major 
    
    E------13-15-13------  		       ------12-15-12------
    B----15--------15----  (repeat as needed)  ----13--------13---- 
    G--12------------12--		       --12------------12--
    
    
    PS - Play fast!

That wasn't Taps, it was Revelee
Taps is what they play at bed time.

Sheeesh, freakin' civilians.

jc (Ex-squid)

    Is Revelee the tune they play at the beginning of the horse races? 
    That sweep is the tune they play.
    
    Mike

Nope - Revellee has words:

"Ya gotta-get-up, ya gotta-get-up
 ya gotta-get-up in the morning"

Get it ??
jc

My favorite sweep picking (with some a right hand tap) practice lick 
is this:


 -----------7-10-15-10-7-----------
 ---------8--------------8---------
 -------7------------------7-------   do this really fast, over and
 -----9----------------------9-----   over, and drive your loved ones
 --10--------------------------10--   insane!
 ----------------------------------

 Shades of Yngwie!

 guy
 

 I almost forgot this latest one I've been working on - based
 on the same pattern, but more interesting...and painful. ;-)

        v            v             v             v
  -7-10-15-10-7------15-10-7-------15-10-7----------
  -------------8-------------8-------------8--------
  ---------------7-------------7-------------7------
  -----------------9-------------9-------------9----
  -----------------------------------------------10- <-- let ring, hit whammy,
  --------------------------------------------------      etc....;-)

  The first two notes are "pick-up" notes, and the others are
  something like 16th note sextuplets, the beat or accent being
  on the "v" marks.  You might use this to end a solo.


guy

    Here's a diminished one I saw Vinnie Moore use the last time he was in
    town:

    E -12-9----------------9-12-
    B ------11----------11------
    G ---------12----12---------
    D ------------14------------
    A --------------------------
    E --------------------------

    He actually slid it up the neck like so:
    
    E -7-4-----------4-10-7--------------7-13-10----------------ETC.-
    B -----6-------6--------9----------9---------12----------12------
    G -------7---7------------10----10--------------13----13---------
    D ---------9-----------------12--------------------15------------
    A ---------------------------------------------------------------
    E ---------------------------------------------------------------

    Oh yes, and like all sweep picking exercises, play just a little faster
    than possible.

    steve

    p.s. I think any good sweep picking exercise is a *great* alternate
    picking exercise.  Ever notice that?  I try to get both sweeping and
    alternate picking to sound the same on the same licks -- same speed
    too.  Not always possible, but its a good goal.

    
    
    The stuff I entered in .55 is to be done with a hammer-on/pull-off
    kind of technique.....unless you can pick it....which I can't do...
    
    re: .56
    
    I was just listening to VM on the way in this morning....that guy is
    scary....
    
    
    guy