Conference napalm::guitar

    Hi,
    
    Any body out there interested in what the boys at Windham Hill
    are doing?
    I am a Guitarist/Vocalist currently working on some New Age
    sounds but with a twist. We are adding lyrics to our songs. We're
    looking for others interested in this stuff. We have three 
    experienced people with a mix of impressive talent. Few of
    our songs are written in standard guitar tuning. We're using a
    mixture of standard, open D, open Dm, open Dmaj, Drop D and
    the E root equivalents to the above. We are open to fresh ideas
    and open minds.
    
    				Machu Pichu

    
    	Dave is that you?
    
    	JJJ
    

    re.1
    
    Yes Joe it's me! Hoe have you been. Still playing?
    
    
    			Machu Pichu

    
    	Yeah, I'm doin great, been playin bass for a couple of gigs
    so far and had some of the best times doin it! Geesh, its been a
    while, eh? Remember that Halloween party??
    
    	So tell us how some of the eclectic tunings sound! I keep a
    12 tuned down to D and a baby (3/4) six tuned up to G around for
    my pleasure. They're "straight" otherwise and are fun to run around
    on and get yourself confused - No peeking!
    
    	Joe Jas
    

    Favorite obscure chord: E6/9
    
    Favorite obscure guitar tuning:  Replace the lowest (in pitch) four
    strings of a six string with the octave strings from a 12 string
    set.  I've heard this referred to as Nashville tuning; it works
    great as an additional sound for recording...it doesn't add any
    'mud-range' like most acoustics do on a recording.  I've tried it
    on an acoustic; anyone have experience with this on an electric?
    
    Adidas,
    J. Jupiter
    

    I have a score in which the guitar accompagnement goes D7,D7+,D7,D7+
    etc. The problem is that I can't find the D7+ shape in any of the
    books I have. The local library doesn't have any chord guides.
    
    Could anyone draw me a D7+ ?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Tim Gallagher

    Ok, maybe first a bit o theory to help you understand the chord.
    The "+" on any chord is the symbol for an Augmented chord. 
    Augmenting a chord usually refers to raising the 5th degree of the
    chord a half a step (1 fret) unless another chord/scale tone is
    defined as the augmented note.
    
    In a D7 chord, your notes are (from a root position inversion):
    D  F#  A  C
    1  3   5 b7
    
    A D7+ would be raising that 5th degree, so it'd look like:
    D  F#  A#  C
    1  3  #5  b7
    
    You can now take these `notes' and randomly arrange them on the
    fretboard to get the inversion you like best. Personally, I thinbk
    the drop 2 inversion sounds best for this chord cliche. (That's
    D A+ C F# FYI)

    Or, if you don't know the names of the notes yet, the D7+ that
    Mr. WJB likes looks like
    
    
                   ------0----------
                   |  |  |  |  |  |
                   |  |  |  |  |  |
                   ------------0----
                   |  |  |  |  |  |
                   |  |  |  |  |  |                  
                   ---------------0-
                   |  |  |  |  |  |
                   |  |  |  |  |  |
                   ---------0-------
                                   
    Just like a normal D7 chord except the third fret on the G string
    is, uh, activated instead of the second fret. Eddie Money uses this
    one in 'Baby Hold On to Me'.

Here's another option:  (the note your first finger is playing determines
                         the root for this shape - for a D7+5, play it at
                         the 10th fret)


                 X           X
              ----------------
              1  |  2  |  |  |                              
              |  |  |  |  |  |                              
              |--|--|--|--|--|                              
              |  |  |  3  4  |                              
              |  |  |  |  |  |                              
              |--|--|--|--|--|                              
              |  |  |  |  |  |                              
              |  |  |  |  |  |                              
              |--|--|--|--|--|                              
              |  |  |  |  |  |                              
              |  |  |  |  |  |                              
              |--|--|--|--|--|                              
              |  |  |  |  |  |                              
              |  |  |  |  |  |                              


You can also make it into a 7+5b9 by barring your pinky across the
first and second strings (or your third finger across first, second
and third...).

Paul

I know that some of you have already answered his question but I have
wanted to do this for a long time.  So, at the risk of sounding redundundant
here is my .02 cents worth.

If you start with the premise of three basic chord shapes to be used
up the neck then the three chords used will be C, A, E.  These are
all moveable, which means that with the use of a BARRE one can move
them anywhere and call them something else.  For example a C
shaped chord barred on the second fret becomes a D.  The next thing
to do is to figure out what note values are assigned to what string
in the position your playing.  For instance a C chord is spelled
C - E - G and Bflat (if you play the 7th); this would translate to:
1 - 3 - 5 and b7.  

At the risk of insulting inteligence this is what the three positions
look like playing them in the basic positions with their corresponding
number designates listed below:


	C position on the	A position on the	E position on the
	second fret = D		second fret = B		third fret = G
	x
	+--------------+	+--------------+	+--------------+
	|  o--barre----o2nd	|  o--barre----o2nd	o----barre-----o3rd
	+--------------+	+--------------+	+--------------+
	|  |  |  |  o  |	|  |  |  |  |  |	|  |  |  o  |  |
	+--------------+	+--------------+	+--------------+
	|  |  o  |  |  |	|  |  o  o  o  |	|  o  o  |  |  |
	+--------------+	+--------------+	+--------------+
	|  o  | (o)  |  |	|  |  |  |  |  |	|  |  |  | (o) |
	+--------------+	+--------------+	+--------------+
	x  1  3  5  1  5	x  1  5  1  3  5	1  5  1  3  5  1
	        (b7)		         *			  (b7)

				* To achieve the
				flat 7 here, remove
				the finger playing
				the 1 on the third
				string.



Once you sit down and figure out where all the note parts to the chord
are located then it should become easier to spell out a chord that you
might run across in some score.  There are three basic positions that
can be used (Joe Pass says five): C, A, E.  Joe says:  C, A, G, E, D.
Actually, I see D as being the same as C, and G tends to be a bit of
a stretch.  But I believe that Joe is referring more to chord shapes
than to the actual derivitive.  So, a D9 on the fifth fret would take
on the characteristics of a G shaped chord (see ex. 7).  Really, I see
it being derived more from the C position, though.

So, with all this in mind if one were to raise the 5th scale degree
in a D7 it would then become a D7+, or more accurately a D7+5.  Lower
it and it becomes a D7-5.  I always liked to use the V7+5 at the end
of a verse before returning to the 1 chord.  In songs like Del Shannon's
Runaway this works really well.  Experiment with the sound and see if
the voice leading sounds good, if not try it somewhere else.  


	      ex. 1		      ex. 2		     ex. 3
	D+5 (C position)	D7+5 (A position)	D7+5 (E position)
	x              x	x			   x           x
	+--------------+	+--------------+	+--------------+
	|  |  |  o  o  |3rd	|  o--barre----o5th	o  |  o  |  |  |10th
	+--------------+	+--------------+	+--------------+
	|  |  o  |  |  |	|  |  |  |  |  o	|  |  |  o  o  |
	+--------------+	+--------------+	+--------------+
	|  o  |  |  |  |	|  |  |  |  o  |	|  |  |  |  |  |
	+--------------+	+--------------+	+--------------+
	|  |  |  |  |  |	|  |  o  |  |  |	|  |  |  |  |  |
	+--------------+	+--------------+	+--------------+
	x  1  3 #5  1  x        x  1 #5 b7  3 #5	1  x b7  3 #5  x


And, just for grins, if you lower the 5 from normal then you will get
the following exmaples.  The minor version is used quite often and moves quite
nicely to the 5 chord, or in this case G (if your playing in C).  An 
example progression would be 1 - 6m7b5 - 2b7 - 5, or for you Roman numeral 
freaks, I - vim7b5 - II7 - V.  This would translate to C - Am7b5 - D7 - G.

Also, included in the examples is a fully Diminished chord.  This means
that the 7th scale degree has been flatted an additional time to make
up 3 intervals of a minor third.  The diminished chord is voice rotated
every fourth fret.  All that means is that it is the same chord with
a different root in the bass.

	      ex. 4		       ex. 5		     ex. 6
	D7-5 (E position)	Dm7-5 (Em position)     Ddim7 (Em position)
	   x           x	   x           x	   x           x
	+--------------+	+--------------+	+--------------+
	|  |  |  |  o  |9th	|  |  |  |  o  |9th	|  |  o  |  o  |
	+--------------+	+--------------+	+--------------+
	o  |  o  |  |  |	o  |  o  o  |  |	o  |  |  o  |  |
	+--------------+	+--------------+	+--------------+
	|  |  |  o  |  |	|  |  |  |  |  |	|  |  |  |  |  |
	+--------------+	+--------------+	+--------------+
	1  x b7  3 b5  x	1  x b7 b3 b5  x	1  x bb7 b3 b5 x


	      ex. 7
	D9 (G position or
	(C position)
	x             (x)
	+--------------+	
	|  |  o  |  |  |4th
	+--------------+
	|  o  |  o  o (o)
	+--------------+
	x  1  3 b7  9 (5) 

If anyone is interested in all of this then I could do more on the subject.
Or send me mail and I will expound for you privately.  The address is:
    COMET::STEWART.
Anyway, good luck.

=ken

    It seems that everyone that plays guitar wants to be a lead
    guitarist, and if you are not "good" enough to be a lead
    guitarist, you end up playing rhythm by default. 
    
    Anyone out there persue rhythm guitar by choice ? Lets face
    it, there are some great rhythm guitarists out there, and
    they didn't get to be that way by default because they were not
    good enough to play lead.
    
    How about lead players that play "chord solos" ? 
    
    How about chord comping ? 
    
    What is the best way to learn a lot of new chords and master the 
    art of chord comping and chord soloing.
    
    I went to a guitar playing seminar once at Holy Cross College
    in Worcester chaired by Joe Pass. He did not advocate lead
    players using chords at all. He seemed to push the use of scales
    or monophonic melodies for solo work. Anyone who has had the chance
    to hear Howard Roberts play jazz knows that chords are good for
    more than just rhythm, or chord comping.
    
    Any thoughts on Rhythm guitar, chord comping, or chord solos ????
    
    Mark Jacques
    
    

    
    I don't like the chord solo type of stuff. I play them for a joke
    every now and then and people laugh...so that's my scope of that
    idiom (sorry, can't take autumn leaves, blue dolphin st., or black 
    orpheus in a chord solo seriously!).
    
    Comping is an art. I mean, with a bassist and a piano player you
    really have to watch (and listen) to what the others are doing 
    harmonically and rhythmically. I find in that situation that voicings
    on the A,D,G,B strings to work the best, if not just playing three
    note voicings.
    
    

    re .0
    
    I agree that there is this unfortunate tendancy today to be 'the
    lead guitar player', and if you're not 'good enough', then you're
    the 'rhythm guitar player'. It's too bad it's gotten that way.
    
    re: chord melody and .1:
    
    How often do you change chords when you play chord melody? Do you
    only change chords when the harmony of the song changes, or do you
    try to play a different inversion under every note of the melody?
    I'd love to see a first-hand demo of what you mean by chord melody.
    
    -Dave

    
    re -1
    
    Basically (I mean, real basic), there's two ways of playing a chord
    melody.
    
    One, you can harmonize each melody note to its own chord harmony.
    Two, you can economize your chords and have melody move over more
    sustained chords, maybe two or three melody notes per voicing.
    
    If you'd like DC, I have some choird solos I could copy for u.
    
    wjb

    Re .3
    
    Pick up the Howard Roberts Album "The Real Howard Roberts". 
    He has had even better albums out, but most are out of print.
    You will probably have to order this album, but at least it
    is available. I think he may have developed his style by
    studying what jazz piano players were doing back in the 40's
    and 50's. Sometimes studying other instruments can shed new
    light on the guitar, or whatever instrument you play. Many
    guitarists try to play what singers sing, and this can lead
    to some interesting things, too. Obviously, singers don't 
    sing at blazing speeds, and often sustain a note for several
    measures. It is simply a differant approach to musical expres-
    sion.
    
    Chord soloing does lend itself to Jazz more than others genres,
    but Jazz can be injected into other forms of music. It is what
    made Steely Dan great. Even an old country picker like Charlie
    Daniels has used Jazz to spice up his playing, and to diversify.
    
    Re .1 Larry , I kind of figured I'd get a reply out of you with
    this note. If anyone in this note file could give a good demo of 
    chord soloing/comping, Larry is one.
                                         
    Mark

    Well, people often listen to me and think that I "know" how to use
    "jazz chords", but actually all I do is take advantage of a low
    cost/performance technique I sorta derived from various things that
    Larry Carlton has said.  My brains just don't have the processing
    power to handle the bandwidth of chords in their proper perspective,
    although I do make a point of analyzing somethng as fully as possible
    before I try to "simplify" it.
    
    I think of most chord voicings as "traids over a bass".   Many chords
    can be simplified this way.  Some examples:
    
    	I might think of a Cmaj9 as a G/C 
    
    	Or a C9 as a Gmin/D
    
    	I even do this for 7ths sometimes, for example I'll conceptualize
    	Am7 as a C (usually 2nd inversion) over an A.
    
    Now this may seem funny coming from me, cause recently in MUSIC I
    was a participant in a debate where I staunchly derrided someone
    for intimating that two chords that happen to have the same notes
    are the same chord independent of voicing and context.  It's just
    that that's a simplifying derivation, but not the "whole truth".
    
    I think part of the reason I find this easier is because I also play
    keyboards.  I am very sensitive about chord voicings (on either
    instrument) and if I'm reading off a chart, or playing from memory,
    or anything else in "real time" (I don't have time to experiment with
    voicings), I stick to certain rules like having the tonal center
    (doubled by an octave or with a 5th added) in the left hand, and
    what I think of as the "implied triad" in the right hand.
    
    And I've just found that's it's fairly easy to translate this to
    the guitar.
    
    On the business of chordal vs. scalar solos,  I have found that 
    turning a chordal solo into a single note solo by arppegiating the
    chords can produce a very interested, non-cliched solo.  In fact,
    I try to jump between chordal and scalar as frequently as possible.
    
    When I hear an ALL scalar (based on scales) solo, I find it's almost
    predictable.  It's almost like it gets into a rut and never gets out
    even though it can be interesting.  But flipping madly between the two
    produces a solo that sorta keeps your attention.
    
    Oh god, this sounds like such bullshit.  But I really am a big believer
    in 1) the traid approach I described, and 2) mixing chordal and scalar
    soloing.
    
    I don't know how many of you guys get the Commusic tapes, but if you
    listen to the guitar solo I played on Commusic III, there's sorta
    an abrupt change in the middle where I start doing chordal things
    around G.   The reason why I did that (and I think it worked out
    real well even if I does seem only to support what I'm saying) is
    because I had gotten half way through and realized I had done almost
    all scalar playing up til that point and was just determined to come
    up with something chordal.
    
    	db

    
    Re -1
    
    I knew that statement didn't look right in text.
    
    I didn't mean to say that chord solos ARE a joke, They're cool in
    their own way.  Some of them just tend to make me laugh.  I'm
    in no way knocking them as a viable means of playing guitar.
    It's hard to explain, never mind...
    
    wjb

    WJB 
               
    A lot of fine guitarists never use chord solos, in fact very few
    do. After listening to the Springjam tapes several times, I am 
    starting to hear a lot of Jeff Beck in your playing style. Your
    playing has grown on me a bit, kinda like an aquired taste. I 
    can't remember ever hearing Beck use chord solos, yet his work
    is very intricate. I won't attempt to categorize or stereotype
    your playing style, but I don't hear any elements of Bebop Jazz
    in your style. In stead I hear a very progressive style. I am sure
    that chord comping/soloing can be adapted to most styles, but it
    does fit into the Bebop style of Jazz best. If this is not your
    bag, you may not be able to find much use for chord soloing.
    It is a skill that a guitarist could easily devote his entire
    life to developing, especially if you set a goal to mastering
    this style as well as Howard Roberts.
    
    	A guitarist would have to have a real interest in this style
    of playing in order to make that much of an investment of time
    and effort. 
    
    	I find that many working musicians have to play certain songs
    or certain kinds of music in order to satisfy the audience or
    customer. Many working musicians like to persue alternative playing 
    styles on their own time. After spending several evenings with
    120db of rock music ringing in thier ears, many people like to sit
    down with a classical guitar, arch-top jazz guitar, or other
    acoustic instrument for a soothing relief. I know you indicated
    in a previous note that you like to play loud. I enjoy loud music
    too, but after a while I get fatiqued listening to loud music.
    
    	On another subject, chord soloing can be used to simulate
    the harmony solos which generally require two players. An example
    would be the old Allman Brothers tune "Blue Skies", which featured
    Duanne Allman and Dickey Betts soloing in harmony. A guitarist
    with mastery in chord soloing could do a fairly good job simulating
    that effect.
               
    	Since this note is also about playing Rhythm guitar, another
    area of discussion that is fair game here is the use of slide
    guitar for playing rhythm. Since playing rhythm generally means
    playing chords, would this neccesitate the use of tunings, or is
    there in easy way of getting chords or at least triads with
    standard tunings ? Obviously, the dgb strings make up a G chord
    in the open position, and can be slide up and down to get other chords,
    but how else can you get chords in standard tuning.
    
    I could go on all night, but I have bitten off enough for now.
    
    Mark 
    
    

    
    I can play a bit of the bebop jazz stuff, but first I have to flip
    back into Berzerklee mode!  Also, it usually takes me an acoustic
    instrument to get into it. I play awful jazz on an electric guitar?!
    Same goes for classical.  
    
    Hey, LV, Thanks for the Howard Roberts tip...I'll check it out.
    The only thing I really know about Howard is that he has a guitar
    made by Gibson and Ted Nugent plays it!
    ;^)
    (^:
    
    wjb

    Re .11 Actually Gibson has 2 differant models named after HR.
    
    They have the original Howard Roberts, which is a unique Arch-top
    jazzer, with an oval soundhole. Epiphone offers a less expensive
    copy of this guitar. In more recent years they introduced the
    Howard Roberts Fusion, which greatly resembles a Les Paul, but
    is Hollow (not sure if it is semi-hollow or completely hollow).
    My cousin has owned several Les Pauls, and currently has a Fusion.
    He likes the Fusion much better and currently uses it as his main
    instrument for gigging.
    
    The one thing I like about my Gibson ES345 is that it can scream
    for playing Rock style music, but can also produce a nice soft
    sound for playing jazz. There are a few players out there that use
    solid body guitars for Bebop style playing, but it is reletively
    onorthodox. Strangely enough the guitarist for Johnny Carsons
    "Mighty Carson Players" often uses a Fender Telecaster for playing
    their big band style music. The last time Glenn Campbell was on
    the tonight show, I believe he borrowed this Tele. He seemed a 
    little uncomfortable with it, and the music reflected this.
    
    A little off the beaten track of rhythm guitar playing, but what
    the hey !!!
    
    Now that I think of it Johnny Carson Guitarist has been known to
    play some nice shuffle style rhythm stuff on his Telecaster. Someone
    was asking in a previous note "Who uses tone pots". Without a tone
    pot, most Telecasters would be useless for getting any tone variations.
    
    Mark
    

    
    
    	I have a question pertaining to the new pop metal band
    WHITE LION.  Does anyone out there happen to know the guitarist's
    name?  I can't help but to be fascinated by his solo to "Wait".
    The last tapping solo I heard that did what this does was J. Watson's
    "ROCK IN AMERICA" solo.  OK, the fucking lead vocalist loves himself,
    and the album sucks lyrically, but I find a great deal of variation in
    the approaches to solos and chord forms/melodies.
        A second question.  Consider the following chord:
             G F B E
    Say you want to make a  C chord.  Do you say there's an assumed root?
    If so, I guess you's just call it Cmaj7  .  
                                          11
    What if you want to make a G chord.  Then call it G(no 5th)7add6.
    I know that's a bullshit chord.  Yngwie, Eddie and other gods use
    these fucking chords where you can't fish out a decent triad, and
    I want to know what the hell to call them.
    
    
    				Bruce McCormack
    
    
    

    The guitarist for White Lion is Vito Bratta.  There is an article
    about him and a transcription of "Wait" in the most recent Guitar
    for the Practicing Musician magazine.  I think the interview goes 
    into his style and sound in-depth (I only skimmed through it so
    far).
    			
    					Ron

    RE: .2
>        I believe that the structure of G F B E is in essence a thirteenth
>   chord.
	
    
    Why wouldn't it be a Em -9.  In nine chords, it's common to leave
    out the 5th.  I think that the F instead of F# could be a problem
    in calling it a 9, tho.
    
    Ashley

    This is *uncanny*. 
    
    Last night I was foolin' with some chords (randomly putting my fingers
    on the fret-board and seeing what comes out...) and I stumbled on
    *exactly* the same chord G F B E and I thought to myself "wot's
    this called ? I know, I'll ask the guys in GUITAR." Synchronicity?
    
    Anyway, for what it's worth here's a chord progression that uses
    it, and I think it sounds pretty good when using the following scale
    to impro over it...
    
    Scale:  C D Eb E F G A Bb B C
    
    Chords: (please excuse my notation...) 
    
    |: G7+5 / / /   C / /-/  G7+5 / / ?  C-/-/-/
       G7+5 / / ?   C / /-/  G7+5 / ? ?  C-/-/-/  :|

    / = 1 beat  /-/ = 2 beats  /-/-/-/ = 4 beats
    
    The chords... 
    
    xx----   xx----   x----x
    ||||||   ||||||   ||||||
    ||||||   ||||||   ||||||
   3||o||o   ||o||o   |o||||
    |||oo|   |||o||   ||||||
    ||||||   ||||o|   ||ooo|
    
     G7+5      ?         C
    
    I play it at a "walkin'" pace slightly damping the strings (tone
    settings leading towards the bass)
    
    Over and out, 
    
    Andy
    
    

    
    Ok, I gather from the base note that White Lion and the G 13 in
    question have no connection here, right?
    
    At least I can't find one in their tunes. (jazziest thing they play
    is an Dm9)
    
    The tapping solo to Wait is ok, I personally wouldn't put it
    technically in the ballpark with Jeff Watson's Rock in America tapping
    thing (7 finger tapping)...the wait solo only requires one finger to
    tap. 
    
    Buck

    I've come to the conclusion that there are chords that may resemble
    conventional chords, but are really just there to create a particular
    kind of dissonance.  These kinds of chords really can't be named.
    
    Maybe this is one of them.
    
    I'd have to hear it in context before I'd commit to give it a name.

>    I disagree.  
    
    My guess is that the real area of disagreement is on what you and I might
    refer to as a "chord".  Let's see if I'm right:
    
    > I believe all chords can ultimately be named.
    
    OK, what would you name the chord I get when I sit on the piano?
    
    At what points does a combination of notes cease to be called
    a chord?

    
     
    >   OK, what would you name the chord I get when I sit on the piano?

    Cacophony!
    
    

>    Randomly playing groups of totally unrelated notes such as sitting
>    on your keyboard would not attain very desirable sounds and are
>    unlikely to be used.  But I see your point.
    
    Lest there be any remaining confusion, that WAS my point in .8
    
    So I guess what I was suggesting in .8 was that what we are trying 
    to name might not even be a "chord", using your terms.
    
    	db

    >>   OK, what would you name the chord I get when I sit on the piano?

    >Cacophony!
    
    I knew that was a straight line when I wrote it.  I just didn't think
    anyone would stoop so low as to take it.  ;-)
    
    Perhaps I've suggested a new method of writing?
    
    Perhaps someday you'll walk into a music library and right next to
    Chopin's "Sonata in A flat"  will be Blickstein's "Sonata on Fat A".
    
    	db
    

 Wow, I figured this topic would get quite a few responses
 about theory.
 
 I dissagree with RE .6, though.  This is one of the first
 rock solos I have heard in a long time that *really* grabbed
 my attention.  I thought the musical ideas Vito Bratta
 presented were well thought out and beautifully pieced together.
 I still haven't bought the album, (which I plan to do soon)
 so my opinion may change with repeated listening.
  
 Frank
 

    David Crosby's been playing rhythm by choice for quite some time
    and look what it's done to him. But seriously, rhythm's a blast.
    Omar.

    
    Maybe I should have included this under note 387, but I thought
    a new question warrants a new note.
    
    Looking through a book on blues guitar recently, I saw the following
    turnaround for a 12 bar:
    
                 | /   /   /   /  |  /   /   /   /  |                     
                   E7  D7  C#7 G7    F#7 C7  B7  F7

    Unfortunately, I don't recall what key it was in, but the thing
    has totally baffled me - it doesn't seem at all correct. Opinions?
    
    Secondly, I was similarly baffled to hear various songwriters talk
    about 'favorite' keys for writing. I can understand people prefering
    keys that suit their vocal range, but I don't know what to make
    of someone who says he "prefers A and E for blues" etc. Anyone got
    any ideas ? I thought the concept of writing a song in one key rather
    than another was relative, since the song can be transposed to suit
    a person's vocal range. The impression I got from these artists
    was that they draw more inspiration from writing in certain keys.
    
    Or maybe it's just that my knowledge of musical theory leaves a
    lot to be desired.
    
    Cheers in advance, Dom
    
    

    
    As far as writing in a specific key, A and E seem to be the two
    most popular keys for blues *guitar*.  
    
    Don't ask me why, but call out "slow blues in F" at a guitar-laden
    jam sometime and see what happens.

    Horn players naturally seem to gravitate to flat keys (Bb and Eb
    seem to be common).
    
    I might point out that although in theory all you have to do to play
    in F on a guitar is move all your fingerings up one fret from where
    you play in E, this seems to boggle many intermediate level guitarists
    I have met.
    
    
    

       
    >  Looking through a book on blues guitar recently, I saw the following
    >  turnaround for a 12 bar:
    
                 | /   /   /   /  |  /   /   /   /  |                     
                   E7  D7  C#7 G7    F#7 C7  B7  F7

    >   Unfortunately, I don't recall what key it was in
    
    The song (pattern) is in `A'.
    
    What's happening is a constant structure of Dominant 7's (common
    to blues) moving thru an extended dominant II-V pattern using 
    sub-five resolutions.
    
    The real chords should look like this:
    
    E7    | C#7  F#7 | B7   E7 | A7 

    V7     (II7) V/II (II7) V7   I7  - Analyzation
    
    The Sub-five is a resolution of a dominant chord down a half-step.
    
    E7    | D7 C#7 G7 F#7 | C7 B7  F7 E7 | A7
    
    V7      v7 II7 v7 V/II  v7 II7 v7 V7   I7 - Anal. w/ sub 5's (v7)
    
    Clearer??
    
    Buck

    re .1
    Yep, that figures. I must admit, every time I play a 12 bar it's
    either in A, D or G! Silly, isn't it?  
    
    re .2
    Er, I'll get back to the book and check through what you said.
    
    Thanks for the info both of you, Dom
    

<    Yep, that figures. I must admit, every time I play a 12 bar it's
<    either in A, D or G! Silly, isn't it?  
    
	Not silly.
	Some artists and composers have stated that they prefer certain
keys to set a particular mood...

	F# - Romantic ( most classical composers - Tschaikovsky
	Db - (according to Phil Woods) Earth key - this is interesting.
Phil said in a seminar that he thought the earth had a drone in Db.  Hmmmm...
	
	I enjoy playing bluegrass guitar in G/D/C/Am.  Generally capo
	for B/Bb/A.  This is not so much to avoid playing in those keys
	open, it's not hard, it just doesn't sound right... 
	Irish music seems to be written in A/E/Em/G/D.

	When on trumpet my favorites for improvisation are D/G/Bb/Eb

	Style is based on limitations.  Your style is a result of all the
	things that you can and cannot do...

	Why do blues players like E?  Some licks fit better there?
	Sometimes those things are economic (like, I own a C harmonica,
so I do tunes in C to use it).  Style is based on limitations.  A player
who is seemingly unlimited has a distinctive style, as well as those how
only know two licks in one key.
	Contrast the playing/performance styles of (low end) John Hartford/
John Prine with (high end) Al Dimeola/Mark O'Connor/Tony Rice.
    
	If I write a vocal tune in Bluegrass style it's often in B or Bb.
A folk tune/finger style seems to wind up in D/Am, and jazz tunes could
be anywhere.  Maybe that's my limitations coming through...

				[Mike_M]

    At the risk of sounding like an expert (which I'm not).
    
    Different keys ARE different, at least on a piano.
    
    I once read a book on piano tuning (in the fruitless hope that I could
    always have my piano in perfect tune and yet not have to pay anyone).
    The book said that on a piano the tuning is not "perfect".  Without
    going into detail, that means that the temperament isn't exact from
    key to key and thus the relationship between C and E (a major third) is
    different than, say, E to G# (another major third).
    
    Anyway, I know from my days as a pianist that each key had it's own
    recognizable "flavor".  I use to write almost everything in E cause it
    always sound the most full and mellow to me.
    
    	db
    
    

    Forgot to mention that just last week I read an old interview with
    Larry Carlton (from Frets I think) in which he said pretty much this
    same thing.
    
    He will often write something and than switch to a key that has more
    of the flavor that he is looking for.
    
    	db

           
    Another reason some that people like blues in A or E is open string
    utilization. 
     
     Dennis

    I like to play songs in C. I just like how you can play blues in
    C. It's right in the middle of the neck. I HATE E, A, and G. 

    I used to like keyboard tunes in C (for obvious reasons).
    
    Then I started playing guitar.  Now, I prefer A and E.  Sheesh!
    
    However, I still like A minor on the keyboard.
    
    	db

    
    Sorry if I seem stubborn, but I still think I'm missing something
    here. I now appreciate why blues songs tend to be in A or E, but
    I really don't understand the logic behind composers stating that
    F# is a romantic key, or indeed, songwriters who "like the atmosphere"
    of a certain key.
    
    I wouldn't say I was *completely* lacking in theory knowledge either.
    In fact, I could quite appreciate a similar argument regarding
    *chords*, i.e., minor = sad; maj7 = sad/melodic; 7aug9 = angry,etc.
    
    Have I missed something or do I lack a "musical ear" ?
    
    Cheers,   Dom
                                                        

    re: .10
    
    Dom,
    
    One explanation is that the physics of the sound are different
    with each key.  More specifically, the mathematical relationships
    of the frequencies of any particular interval (4th, 5th, etc.)
    are different in each key, and thus produce a different effect.
    
    If you don't "hear" this, it could well be a lack of something
    in your "ear", but I wouldn't worry about it.
    
    > In fact, I could quite appreciate a similar argument regarding
    > *chords*, i.e. minor = sad, maj7 = sad/melodic, etc.
    
    Perhaps you can explain to me why a minor chord is less important
    than a major chord?  ;-)
    
    	db

    If you look at the human anatomy in terms of resonant frequencies
    of organs, cavities, bones(?) etc., it might make physical sense
    that the body (/mind) would react differently to different keys.
    
    db's point is interesting, too.
    
    Bob

    
    re .11 and .12
     In that case, two observations:
    
    1) I conclude that certain individuals (experienced musicians maybe)
    must be able to "hear" what key a song is in, or at least give a
    pretty good guess.
    
    2) Perhaps it would be worth my while to play a series of songs
    in different keys and listen to them on a tape recorder in order
    to better appreciate the individual "properties" of each key.
    
    What do you say ?
    
    Thanks, Dom
    

    I'll take it one step farther. Dave B. has already pointed out that
    the intervals between notes in different keys are actually vary
    slightly. In other words, the distance from the third to the fourth
    in one key might be (for example) 100 cps, and in another key 96
    cps. This is a result of using the tempered scale. I don't want
    to get into the theory behind why the tempered scale was developed,
    but the result is that each key has a slightly different character.
    
    In addition, keys have different effects due to the range and tonal
    characteristics of the originating instrument. For example, on a
    wind instrument a a key which uses notes that approach the extremes
    of the range of the instrument is going to produce a different effect
    than keys that have notes that are all easy to reach. On string
    instruments, especially guitar, the neck position, string weight,
    resonance of open strings, etc., are all factors that affect the
    final sound and may be altered by changes in key.
    
    Finally, the range of our own hearing, as well as our psychological
    perception of sound, are influenced by key selection. For example,
    if you are used to hearing blues played in A every day, it will
    probably have quite a different effect on you if you were to hear
    something in Bb.
    
    What's the point? In the age of electronic music it may be as simple
    as flipping a switch to change keys. But something might be lost
    in the process. Whether you know it or not, whether you understand
    it or not, a lot of things are happening that affect you. This could
    be one of them.
    
    - Ram
    

    
    There are a lot of psychoacoustic phenomena which are not really
    adequately understood.  One of them is the effect of a song's key.
    
    Some ancient civilizations actually matched zodiac signs to keys
    (there's twelve of each).
    
    One friend of mine who is a jazz DJ told me he tries to program his
    show so no two adjacent tunes are in the same key so as to prevent
    listener fatigue !!!!
    
    
    

    
    
    RE: -1
    However, most dicso dj's will purposly mix together as many songs
    in the same tempo/key.
    
    

>    1) I conclude that certain individuals (experienced musicians maybe)
>    must be able to "hear" what key a song is in, or at least give a
>    pretty good guess.
    
    This is most certainly true.
    
    I've observed something in myself that is sorta germaine to this
    discussion.
    
    As Ram indicated, on many electronic keyboards, transposing is as easy
    as hitting a button.  That is, I hit a button on my MIDI keyboard
    and all of a sudden the C key plays D, the D key plays E, etc.
    
    I can't use this feature!
    
    When I push C, my ear expects to hear C and if it doesn't I get very
    confused very quickly.   If I know the next chord I'm supposed to
    play on the keyboard is C, but the "real" chord is D cause of
    transposition I'll go for the D chord... which will sound an E chord!
    
    If I'm allowed time to play on a transposed keyboard for awhile (like
    about 10-15 minutes), I can adapt.  But just going in cold (like in
    a gig situation) forget it.
    
    	db

    
    .17 - i second that. I can always(most always) tell what key something
    is played in - no real science involved consciously, and i've always
    assumed it just comes from 25years or so of playing. I do have
    a tough time transposing only in the sense that to me, some songs
    belong in some keys, and they don't feel right when i move them
    along. However, this also can become a neat way to experiment and
    look for new ways to do a tune...i've heard the Beatles strawberry
    fields in 3 different keys on 3 different versions, and to me, they
    all sound quite unique, since the arraigements are more-or-less
    the same...
    		
    					bs

    Note 784 prompted my question here...
    
    I have been playing guitar for some years but have only recently
    got 'into' the blues. I have become sort of proficient with some
    basic blues boxes played mainly in E. However What I havn't figured
    out is where the best place on the fret board is to play fill in
    chords between lead lines.
    
    My problem may be compounded by the fact that I am playing an acoustic
    so I havn't got the range of variations of chord positions you get
    on an electric (well, playable positions). At the moment I tend
    to revert to open chords because any chord I play up the neck just
    doesn't seem to 'sound' right. Of course open chords are a bind,
    not least the time it takes to move from say 10th fret down to the
    bottom and back. So, where should one play these chords in relation
    to the box you are playing a lead line in? Is there a rule? Are
    there rules in blues!
    
    Hope this is clearer than it seems to me !
    
    Richard
    Basingstoke, UK

    Agree with .1
    
    Also, I used to have a hard time figuring out what was going on when I
    heard people playing lead with a lot of chords thrown in. It just
    didn't seem possible to me to combine lead fingerings and bar chords
    effectively. Eventually I figured out that they were seldom playing
    full bar chords. They just used a lot of double-stops, "triple-stops",
    etc. For example, if you have the major (A) bar chord at any given
    fret: 
    
		6 |  X  |     |     |
    		5 |     |     |  X  |
    		4 |     |     |  X  |
    		3 |     |     |  X  |
		2 |  X  |     |     |
		1 |  X  |     |     |

    then just using a piece of the chord, which you can play with one
    finger:

    		6 |     |     |     |
    		5 |     |     |  X  |
    		4 |     |     |  X  |
    		3 |     |     |  X  |
		2 |     |     |     |
		1 |     |     |     |

    provides a harmonic base around which you can play the lead.

    Another very common example from rock is the E chord:

		6 |  X  |     |     |
    		5 |  X  |     |     |
    		4 |     |  X  |     |
    		3 |     |     |  X  |
		2 |     |     |  X  |
		1 |  X  |     |     |

    You can build the lead around this (E):
    
		6 |  X  |     |     |
    		5 |  X  |     |     |
    		4 |     |  X  |     |
    		3 |     |     |  X  |
		2 |     |     |     |
		1 |     |     |     |

    this (G):
    
    		6 |     |     |     |
    		5 |  X  |     |     |
    		4 |  X  |     |     |
    		3 |  X  |     |     |
		2 |     |     |     |
		1 |     |     |     |

    and this (A):
    
		6 |     |     |     |
    		5 |     |     |  X  |
    		4 |     |     |  X  |
    		3 |     |     |  X  |
		2 |     |     |     |
		1 |     |     |     |

    Look out Chuck Berry!!!        

    Once I figured out what was going on it opened things up for me
    to a whole world of guitar playing that I couldn't imagine at first.

    - Ram

    
    I agree with everything said so far. Especially the bit about
    sliding into 9th chords. What I do is play a 9th chord and
    then slide up 2 fret, but only accentuate the top 2 strings,
    then slide back down to the 9th chord again. It's the kind of
    thing you do by just strumming the chord once, slide up, down
    without strumming again, just depending on the sustain of the
    guitar. It works on an acoustic, I do it all the time myself.
    
    Another easy trick is to get a slide, retune the guitar to
    some major chord (Emaj). Then you can slide around and grab
    full chords, or pieces of chords anywhere on the neck. Arpeggiating
    pieces of chords with a slide is a neat thing, and lends a decent
    rhythm to a tune. 
    
    Another thing that can be used effectively is redundancy. Many
    players will seem to go into a stupor and keep playing the same
    chords, at the same rhythm until it almost starts to sound slightly
    redundant, but they are subtly building up to a slightly louder, 
    tighter momentum, and then WHAM !! they hit you with a really tasty 
    chord change. Another example of this is the Train effect that is real
    poular with blues harp players, They start off, like a train
    just taking off, with a slow beat, and build up speed, tention, and 
    power, until you get the sensation of being on a train blazing down 
    the track at full speed.
    
    Mark Jacques
    

I like to use a 4-string version of the basic C7 shape (see 1st box below). 
You can move that up and down the fretboard to your hearts content, sliding 
in and out of whatever. You don't get the 5th (G), but who cares?

    x   C7    x      x   C9    x      x  C7-10  x
0   +-+-+-+-+-+   0  +-+-+-+-+-+   0  +-+-+-+-+-+
    | | | | o |      | | | | | |      | | | | | |
    +-+-+-+-+-+      +-+-+-+-+-+      +-+-+-+-+-+
    | | o | | |      | | o | | |      | | o | | |
    +-+-+-+-+-+      +-+-+-+-+-+      +-+-+-+-+-+
    | o | o | |      | o | o o |      | o | o | |
    +-+-+-+-+-+      +-+-+-+-+-+      +-+-+-+-+-+
                                      | | | | o |
                                      +-+-+-+-+-+

If you're wicked, like me, you can also play the bottom E-string fingered
with your thumb. I use this technique to play the bass-riff from The
Beatles "Taxman", around this shape - up 2 frets as a D7.

If you want to slot in 'inbetweeny' chords for your lead breaks, you can 
try 9th's (see 2nd box above) or try flattening the tenth (3rd box above) 
for that bit of "tension" - add your own amount of violence for effect!



Another piece of four string playing I use is the A7, D7, E7 sequence 
around the 5th fret ...


        A7               D7               E7 
    x o       x      x x o            x         x
    +-+-+-+-+-+      +-+-+-+-+-+      +-+-+-+-+-+
    | | o | o |      | | | o | o      | | | | o |
5th +-+-+-+-+-+  5th +-+-+-+-+-+  5th +-+-+-+-+-+
    | | | o | |      | | | | | |      | | o | | |
    +-+-+-+-+-+      +-+-+-+-+-+      +-+-+-+-+-+
    | | | | | |      | | | | o |      | o | o | |
    +-+-+-+-+-+      +-+-+-+-+-+      +-+-+-+-+-+

Richard, basically, I would recommend gradually missing out different bits
of standard open chord shapes, and move them up the fretboard. Keep
experimenting! If it sounds right, do it - if it doesn't sound right, still
do it! 

Regards,
Dave

    
    Re: -1
    
    C7-10???  C7 #9 is the more common reference to such a harmony,
    no?

    Re: -1

I first saw this referred to in this way in the sheet music to "Come Together"
off The Beatles "Abbey Road" album. The verse was accompanied by a D7-10,
which reading off the stave looked like what I entered in my previous note.
I've always referred to it like that since then.

I'm sure I also encountered this "-10" reference in the music to The 
Beatles "One After Five-O-Five" in the bit where it goes "Move over once, 
move over twice/Come on, honey, don't be cold as ice".

Anyway, it sounds the same whether or not it's a sharp 9 or a flat 10!

    
I also use the following , which I call a C7b9 - is this normal?

                              x         x
                           0  +-+-+-+-+-+
                              | | | | | |
                              +-+-+-+-+-+
                              | | o | o |
                              +-+-+-+-+-+
                              | o | o | |
                              +-+-+-+-+-+

Regards,
Dave

    Yeah, the flat 9 looks right.
    
    Its just that I've never heard of chord tones refered to as tesions
    and/or compound intervals.  I mean, I've seen a b13, but never an
    augmented 12th, you know?  Just curious as to the posting and possibly
    a reason why the tension was thought of as a flat 3rd as opposed
    to a sharped 9th.  I find it interesting the Beatles wrote the harmony 
    as such (-10), but then again I'm not too familiar with Beatles
    changes.
    
    Curious Buck 

I guess it depends on what you think you're altering! So, if you think
you're changing between a minor 3rd and a major 3rd, as when you hammer-on
the G# in a normal chord of E, you don't consider that to be a change from
a sharp 9, or do you?

However, when I play the same thing using the top-E string...

                              o
                              +-+-+-+-+-+
                              | | | o | |
                              +-+-+-+-+-+
                              | o o | | |
                              +-+-+-+-+-+
                              | | | | o-o
                              +-+-+-+-+-+

...I probably call it something different depending on where I came from and 
where I'm going to...

Cheers,
Dave

(Don't get to this file very often!)

No one seems to have mentioned the following:-

Keys which have flats in their key signature tend to sound "doom-laden"
and are good for blues (F, Bb, Eb and so on).
Keys which have sharps in their signature tend to sound "bright" (G, D, A
and so on).

*DC

Oh, and C major (with no sharps or flats) must be the dullest and least
interesting key on guitar.
Anyone dis/agree with these comments?
*DC

    
    Whadaya mean C major is a dull key??

    Depends on how you treat the harmony.   freq use the #4, b2, and b7/7
    combinations to spice it up.
    
    
    Buck   

    I don't think it's dull, but I'm not sure if you're impression of it is
    based on the key itself, or the practical considerations of what can be
    done in the key of C on the guitar.
    
    Keys do have their own personalities though.
    
    	db

    
    
    
    	YEAH... look don't laugh but I'm struggling with the lead piece
    (it's short) from Rick Springfield's Jesse's Girl. I don't know
    who the guitarist is but he uses not pairs in the middle of the
    piece on the G and high E strings (sounds like a metal version of
    the slide intro used on soul man... sung by Sam and Dave)  Anyhoo,
    what does he do with his pick while he's fingering the note pair?
     How does he get frm the note pair back to single notes so quick?
    
    
    Steve

    Springfield did the lead.
    
    You can play the whole thing using a pick by damping the B string
    with any part of your left hand.
    
    Danny W

>    Springfield did the lead.
    
If I remember correctly, the lead work on that song was done by Neil
Geraldo (of Pat Benetar fame).

Alan S.

    
    
    	Shoot never thought of damping the b string.. that sounds easy..
    just lean my middle finger into the b as I'm playing the g.
    
    
    Thanks,
    Steve

    
    Why not use your picking hand to dampen strings ????
    
    You don't have to dampen all strings though, so you can 
    still play the G open, and dampen the B at the same time.
         
    -Tony

    You could also try using your ring and middle fingers to play the
    two separate strings while holding the pick between your thumb and 
    index fingers, out of the way.  Or play one string with the pick
    and the other with a spare finger.
    
    Tom

    re: .17
    
    I saw Springfield live once, and he played the lead all by himself,
    so I assumed he did it on the record. It's easy enough so that I
    can play it.
    
    Danny W.

>    I saw Springfield live once, and he played the lead all by himself,
>    so I assumed he did it on the record. It's easy enough so that I
>    can play it.
    
Yeah, I saw him live also. Actually, I thought the show was rather 
good, except for the 13,000 screaming teenagers who insisted on 
shouting in my ear. 

But I'm still pretty sure that Neil did the guitar work on that album.
I remember thinking that it was a pretty good album for a soap opera
star, then hearing that Geraldo was on it and thinking "Oh, no wonder
it so good!"

Alan S.

    
    
    	I've gotta tell you that I thought that there would be some
    real negative reactions to Springfield.  I was beginning to think
    that my musical tastes were going sour!  But when I mentioned it
    to my music teacher, he had the same reaction... "Hmmmm not bad.."
    
    	This lead is HARD for me... too fast and too technical... guess
    that shows where I'm at with music today <sigh>.
    
    	Thanks, Dave... I'll keep playing my scales (up and down from
    now on).

    RE: .14
    
    Sorry.  Chord solos to this day make me laugh...still don't know why
    the sound of them just hits a funny bone with me.  Also, when a song
    modulates more than once in a song I also laugh.  This doesn't imply
    that they're bad or anything.
    
    Buck 

    
    	Chord solos make me laugh too. The ones I had to write made
    	me laugh even harder. I didn't laugh when they were graded though,
    	my guitar instructor had no sense of humor :-(.
    
    	Guy Novello
    

    I hear a lot about Power Chords these days.  In a book I just finished
    by Arlen Roth, he addressed an example in a VERY short section.
    Obviously, these are meaty chords!
    
    Here are 3 he said were used by the Kinks in "You Really Got Me"
    and "All Day & All of the Night":
    
    E ----------------------------------------------------
    B ----------------------------------------------------
    G ----------------------------------------------------
    D ----------------------------------------------------
    A ----5-------------7--------------9------------------
    E --3-------------5--------------7--------------------
    
    Anyone have some more examples?  
    
    Mike

>    	C position on the	A position on the	E position on the
>	second fret = D		second fret = B		third fret = G
>	x
>	+--------------+	+--------------+	+--------------+
>	|  o--barre----o2nd	|  o--barre----o2nd	o----barre-----o3rd
>	+--------------+	+--------------+	+--------------+
>	|  |  |  |  o  |	|  |  |  |  |  |	|  |  |  o  |  |
>	+--------------+	+--------------+	+--------------+
>	|  |  o  |  |  |	|  |  o  o  o  |	|  o  o  |  |  |
>	+--------------+	+--------------+	+--------------+
>	|  o  | (o)  |  |	|  |  |  |  |  |	|  |  |  | (o) |
>	+--------------+	+--------------+	+--------------+
>	x  1  3  5  1  5	x  1  5  1  3  5	1  5  1  3  5  1
>	        (b7)		         *			  (b7)

    I've heard of A and E position barre chords.  Is there such a thing
    as a C position bar chord?  Is it just a barre with a C major after
    it?  If so, I imagine you could do this with other chords, correct?
    (i.e., D barre, F barre, etc.)
    
    Mike

    
    > Is there such a thing as a C position bar chord?
    
         Sure.  If you want there to be.  You can bar anything you want -
         just be aware of where the root of that particular chord shape is
         and where the root happens to fall on the fretboard so you can 
         name it in an emergency (like song writing). ;-)  
    
         There are no rules!!!  Do whatever sounds good.
    
    Guy

    Want examples of using power chords?  

    Flip on your radio, any pop or rock station will do.  I guarantee that
    you'll hear them in *at least* every other song.

    Greg 

        
>    E ----------------------------------------------------
>    B ----------------------------------------------------
>    G ----------------------------------------------------
>    D --5-------------7--------------9--------------------
>    A --5-------------7--------------9--------------------
>    E --3-------------5--------------7--------------------
>        A5            G5             B5                                      

    Hmm, you must have a pretty interesting guitar neck if you get an
    A on the third fret and a G on the 5th  8^)  8^)  8^)
    
    

    I'm confused!!  I'm never heard of A, E, C or whatever "position" barre
    chords...what does "A" or "E" position mean anyways?
    
     

    Re: Greg & Pop
    
    Pop music? Yeech!  I think I got the idea anyway.  If all I need
    to do is drop the thirds, I can think of my own examples :-)
    
    Mike

    RE: Tony's reply about 3rds
    
    I may be wrong but my understanding of power chords is that they
    definately do NOT contain 3rds - that is what makes them power chords
    as opposed to major triads.
    
    Andy

                                      
    I goofed in my reply in .1 (as if you all didn't notice!!). I cocked
    up the example too (hell it was late). I'll re-post it when I get
    a chance.
             
    Just a quickie ...                         
                                      
    E ------------------------     
    B ------------------------     
    G ------------------------     
    D --3---------------------     
    A --3----5----------------     
    E --1----3----------------     
            G5                     
                                   
    So what would you call the first chord here then if its not 
    F5(No 3rd) ??     
                      
    -Tony             

    
    RE: -.1
    
>   E ------------------------     
>   B ------------------------     
>   G ------------------------     
>   D --3---------------------     
>   A --3----5----------------     
>   E --1----3----------------     
>           G5                     
                                   
>   So what would you call the first chord here then if its not 
>   F5(No 3rd) ??     

    I would call it F5. The (No 3rd) is redundant. If it HAD a 3rd then
    it would either be F or Fmin depending on whether the 3rd was flattened
    or not.
    
    Andy
    
    

    

 >   I'm confused!!  I'm never heard of A, E, C or whatever "position" barre
 >   chords...what does "A" or "E" position mean anyways?
    
    	I believe that's referencing the 'finger position' as one would
    	play it on the neck.  The 'twist' is that you use one of your
    	fingers as a bar (like a capo) the other fingers to form the
    	chord.
    
    	Yes there IS a bar 'C' position - I use it quite often myself.
    	For a real treat - try a bar 'G' (orchestral) position. They
    	can also be very 'enlightening'.
    
    							Rich

    
    	Hey Buck,
    
    	I understand "A or E position" chords because I learned how
    	to play by playing my records over and over until the grooves
    	were white. I never took lessons enough to hurt my playing.
    	Not all of us went to Berklee so we could learn chords like
    	the G Tetraphased Mono-domolished. :^) :^)
    
    		BTW, I believe in developing your own style and not
    		relying on crutches of effects. For me it's;
    
    		GUITAR ----CORD----AMP
    
    		
    	Neal-with-an-attitude-this-morning
    

    
    I'll check my sourses 8^)

    >    	BTW, I believe in developing your own style and not
    >		relying on crutches of effects. For me it's;
    
    >		GUITAR ----CORD----AMP

    I did that the other night...t'was nastolgic!
    

    I thought Buck was kidding so I didn't answer his question.  :-)
    
    Like it was mentioned before, in an "A position" barre chord, the
    first finger acts as a capo, leaving you with 3 fingers to form
    any variation of the A chord.  The fret determines the actual chord
    and since the A is played using 5 strings, so is the A position
    barre.
    
    Example:
    
    If you barre on the third fret, and use the middle, ring, and pinky
    fingers to form an Am, you will be playing a Cm.
    
    Mike

    re: -1, -2, etc
    
    weird!!  never heard of that stuff before!

    
    	Other than the Arlen Roth book (I have it too) and this note, I've
    	never heard it called "A-position" either.  Open string A-form,
    	open string E-form, and so on, but not A-position.
    
    	Actually, I think Arlen flips back and forth between the terms "form" 
    	and "position."  The teachers and books I'm familiar with usually use 
    	the terms form or shape.
    
    
    							John

    Actually the first finger or barre finger determines the chord.
    Since the 5th fret on the A string is a D, any open A chord played
    while barring the 5th fret is the D version of that open A chord.
    
    Same with "E position/form/shape" barre chords.  The E string
    determines the chord.  Playing an open E chord while barring the
    8th fret would be the C version of that open E chord.
    
    What I'd like to know:  Can you do this with the D string?  Are
    there "D position/form/shape" barre chords.  For example, 
    (playing the first 4 strings for a D) what would you get if you barre
    on the 5th fret and play an open D chord?  The G version of that
    open D chord?
    
    Mike

    >What I'd like to know:  Can you do this with the D string?  Are
    >there "D position/form/shape" barre chords.  For example, 
    >(playing the first 4 strings for a D) what would you get if you barre
    >on the 5th fret and play an open D chord?  The G version of that
    >open D chord?

    Yup!  And all those "D" shapes...major7, minor 7, major 6, sus2,
    sus4, reg. maj n minor...they all work too!
    
    PS - You can also "combine" `D string barre chords' with `A' or
    `E string barre chords' for big, full voicings!

    This is being nit picky, but...

    In standard theory, "power chords" aren't.  Chords, that is.  Chords
    are made up of three or more notes exclusive of any doubling.

    So called "power chords" are made up of two notes (the root and
    the fifth), often with one doubled.  This "third note" (the doubled 
    root or fifth) is not the third of the chord.

    (No, I don't expect anyone to quit calling them power chords.  It's
    part of the vocabulary and besides, "power intervals" sounds dumb.)

    Also, I think a previous reply that has been deleted stated that the 
    doubled note in a power chord was "enharmonic."  Enharmonic notes are 
    notes that sound the same but are spelled differently.  For example, 
    A# and Bb, or E# and F.


							John
    

    Buck, it was nice to help you for a change! :-)
    
    Mike

< Note 713.1 by AQUA::ROST "Obedience to the law guarantees freedom" >
>        I might point out that although in theory all you have to do to play
>    in F on a guitar is move all your fingerings up one fret from where
>    you play in E, this seems to boggle many intermediate level guitarists
>    I have met.
    
    I tried this last night and it didn't sound right to me (yes I actually
    read these old notes :-)).
    
    It did sound better though when I added the C on the B string (first
    fret).
    
    Mike

    
    Re: .24
    
    Huh????  I didn't say play *an* F (chord) I said *in* F (key). 
    
    That is, closed fingering patterns are movable, so playing in a
    new key is no more than a positional shift.  Of course, if your
    fingerings use open strings, you have to compensate (such as in
    the case of playing an F major chord at the first fret).
    
    Confused yet?   8^)  8^)  8^)  8^)

    I was always told thast a chord is any TWO notes...  Okay, who's gonna
    set me straight... ???
    
    ;^)

    Two or more that is...
    

    I always heard that a chord was a minimum of three notes.  Two notes is
    simply an interval.
    
    gh

    Hmmm,
    
    I've always thought that the term "power chord" had much more to do
    with *how* the chords are played (distortion, sustained) than with
    how many notes were in them.  Almost all of the power chords *I* hear
    on the radio are simple 'E shape' or 'Em shape' chords, with the thirds
    included.
    
    Rodney

    Mike,
    I'm getting a real KICK out of reading this note! Try to think of
    some more questions that absolutely NO TWO people will have the
    same answer for; I love it...YO-HA!
    
    By the way, sorry you'll never find out what a power chord is....
    (I thought it was as you described in your base note, played hard
    and distorted)
    
    Steve  8^)

	Heck, I got a whole bunch of power cords. What guage wire you want??

				Jens_who's_only_partially_brain_damaged

    re:-1
    
    That makes a lot more sense than all the other replies !   8^)
    
    You know, I believe I've got a few of those too ...
    
    
    
    				Scary
    

    Did you ever hear anything by Walter Piston? No wonder he had to teach
    for a living! 

    
    Isnt a Maj 7th chord (for example B,C,E,G) a Patty Duke Power Chord?
    
    Just checking. :-)

    I think Cmaj7 (c, e, g, b) is
    actually a Smurf Power Chord.  A Patty Duke power chord would probably
    be more like a regular triad (c,e,g), or I might have them mixed
    up, I keep forgetting....
                             
    Steve 8^)

How's this for a compromise:

Yes, technically, a chord requires a minimum of two intervals 
(three notes).  However, whereas a martini technically requires 
gin and vermouth, you can make a semi-legal extremely dry martini 
by pouring gin into a glass and opening a bottle of vermouth and
passing it over the glass without pouring.  Similarly, a spartan
power chord can be played by blasting the root and fifth and just
having fond thoughts about the implied third. :^)

> ...Similarly, a spartan
> power chord can be played by blasting the root and fifth and just
> having fond thoughts about the implied third. :^)
    
    Absolutely!  Sometimes when I hear a jazz guitarist do this, I wonder
    if it's an allusion to jazz pianist Thelonious Monk.  Monk left out
    implied roots or thirds or fifths or whatevers all the time, sometimes
    to perverse and/or comic extremes.  (I'm sure there are all kinds of
    other precedents.)  Sort of like the blues axiom, "it's what you don't
    play....", but applied to chords rather than melodies or leads. 
    "Having fond thoughts about the implied third" is a good way to put it.

    I think assumed tonalities in chords are cool and see no problem with a
    comping instrument in an ensemble (pianist, guitarist) leaving that
    stuff out (roots, thirds, etc).  For one, it frees up the soloist.
    Also, in terms of the root specifically, the bassist has got that one
    covered already.  Personally, I almost always leave out the root and
    fifth when I jazz out...it's just my preference for voicings, not that
    its better or worse.  I think the harmony sounds stronger and clearer
    without them in there (guitar-wise). 
    
    Also, whos to say your voicings cannot simply consist of three or
    two not harmonies?  If it works......

    
    I understand these fond thoughts grow stronger after the martini...
    
    Guy

    
          Could anyone please tell me if the Tim Gallagher who was asking
         about the D7+ chord (153) is the same Tim who was in the band 
         N.E. ROCKS? I used to see him at partys but he left the band
         over the summer and I was wondering what he was up to.
          
       
                                                
                                                     Just wondering,
                                                                    R.C.
    

    I came across a chord in some music last night that isn't in my chord
    dictionary.  What does an E2/G# look like?  In fact, what do any of the 
    x2 chords look like?
    
    Mike

    Re: What does an E2/G# look like?
    
    One option might be:
    
     x
    ======
    ------
    ------
    ------
    x-xx-x
    ----x-
    
    The /G# part tells you to use a G# bass.  The E2 tells you to add the
    second note of the scale (in this case F#.)  An E2 differs from an E9
    chord in that the seventh note (D) isn't used on an E2.  An open
    configuration, ignoring the G# bass could be
    
    ======
    ---x--
    -xx--x
    ------
    
    If you can stretch your thumb up to the fourth fret you could still add
    the G# bass.
    
    Hope this helps,
    
    	Rich

    Another voicing for E2/G# would be this:
    
    ===========
    | | | | | |
    | | o | | o
    | | | | | |
    o | | o | |
    | | | | o |
    2 x 1 3 4 1

>    ======
>    ---x--
>    -xx--x
>    ------
    
    Thanks Buck & Rick!  
    
    Rick, I'm assuming the double line at the top here is the nut, right?
    
    Mike

    That's right, although you might think of it as the zeroth fret!
    
    	Rich

    Steely Dan guitar players use those '2' chords a lot...I read a blurb
    in which they called them 'mu' chords.  I try to add the 2 note in the
    middle of the chord, rather than as the bass or melody note. For example, 
    a E2 could be:
    
    ======
    |||o||
    |o||||
    ||||||
    ||o|||
    
    
    Regards,
    John Kelly
    

    The Stones also use *2 chords a lot, with a different inversion than
    any of those given here. For example, the E2 would be:
    
          <<< Note 120.10 by CIMAMT::KELLY "Feelin' a little edgy" >>>
                   -< Or was that 'moo' chords (cow music?) >-

    Steely Dan guitar players use those '2' chords a lot...I read a blurb
    in which they called them 'mu' chords.  I try to add the 2 note in the
    middle of the chord, rather than as the bass or melody note. For example, 
    a E2 could be:
    
    ====== 5th fret
    ||||||
    ||oxox
    ||||||
    |||o||
    
    Where oxox represents a half-barre at the 7th fret. Only the D, G and B
    strings are sounded. Listen to the intro to "Brown Sugar". This is
    probably different than the application you are looking at, but if you
    really wanted to make it an E2/G# you could throw in the G# as follows:
    
    ====== 5th fret
    ||||||
    ||oxox
    ||||||
    |o|o||
    
    In either of these cases, since the E root is not actually sounded, the
    chord is most useful as a suspension or passing chord to an E major.
    
    - Ram

    How about raising the 6th degree of a minor scale to play it over one
    of those chords I forget the name of.  It's this one:
    
    
    | | | | | |
    | | * | | |   <--That's the note in the chord that changes the scale
    * | | * * *   <--This is "root" fret for the key (position 1)
    | | | | | |
    
    That's an Xm6, right?

	Work great with chords made of:

		root, M3, 7
		root, M3, 7, #9
		root, b5, 7, b9

	and any augmented. They're great for popping radically from one
	tone center to another and you can resolve to any half tone at
	any time so give it rest from the tension. The number of synthetic
	scales available is endless, so I find it helpful to fix on an
	idea and try to stick with it.

	A great source for whole-tone and chromatic musical inspiration is
	the television. The incidental music that you're not 'sposed to
	notice is chock full of the most beautiful "space music" you'd ever
	wanna hear.


	Anybody making any headway musically with Milt Franklin as a main
	influence?

    I've been playing around with some chromatic changes during
    turnarounds. One that I've been playing around alot with is one that
    features a diminished fifth interval. I like to go from the minor third
    of the tonic to the major third while adding the dim 5. Great for
    adding killer whammy as well.
    
    So, if I'm on top of a progression that has an E root, I'll hit G and
    C#, slide them up to G# and D, then apply generous whammy.
    
    I've also been playing around with going up and down the neck with
    intervals, one of my favorites being sixths.
    
    A very interesting scale to use ( especially on a I VII progression )
    is 1 m2 3 4 5 m6 7 8 m3.
        1  3 1 2 1  3 1 3
    
    Blue Oyster Cult had a lead break based on this on "Don't fear
    the Reaper". Jimmy Page used it quite a bit on Physical Graffiti.
    
    							John.

    
    I'm gonna stay outa this topic and save myself the embarassment! 8(
    
    J.

Last night I was experimenting with altered scales (I, bII, bIII, III, bV, 
bVI, bVII), but I tried using a raised 7th degree instead of the bVII. 
Very weird to say the least. About the only chords it fits over are augmented 
(I, III, #V) and augmented (major) seventh chords (I, III, #V, VII).  

Hardly mainstream pop. Really only useable if you're writing film scores 
for "axe murderer"-type movies.   :-)


Mike D

    There's one I seem to often fall into.  I don't know the proper
    name for it name for it - I think of it as "the Steve Morse scale"
    cause he uses a lot when he's in his "funky" style
    
    I  IIIm IV IV#  G  VIIdom 
    
    Or, in the key of C
    
    C  Eb F F# G  Bb C.
    
    It's basically a minor pentatonic with a sharp 4th, but the sharp 4 is
    so much a part of it that I at least don't "think" of it as minor
    pentatonic (that is, I think totally differnently when I'm playing
    minor pentatonic), and you don't really apply it as minor pentatonic
    either.  If there's a proper name for it, I'd love to know it.
    
    If I knew every scale as well as I knew this one, I might well be
    famous.  I just feel really comfortable in this and can apply it
    to any key all over the neck.
    
    It's also lends itself towards fingerings well suited to 3 fingered
    players (folks that don't use their right pinky) although I play with 4
    fingers.
    
    	db

    RE .7 on .6
    
    Yeah, I've tried that scale...looks like a Minor Pentatonic with a 
    flated 5th degree to me...I call this a Blues scale becuase of the
    "blue" note in it (the b5).
    
    This is a rock standard, but a very flexible scale indeed!

    
    Wow, dude!  Pentatonic Minor with b5!  You're frying my brains. ;-)
    
    J.

    I'm no wiz, but I've been having a blast lately dorking around with
    the following scales (over a repeating Dm7 Em7 chord pattern):
    
    	start out with D blues scales all over the fretboard (gives
    me a chance to practice),
    
    	then throw in some D Dorian stuff (so much like the blues stuff
    anyway),
    
    	drift into some A Aeolean (or whatever it'd be called when you
    start on an A as if it were the sixth position of a C scale).
    
    	then I sometimes play some Fmaj7th arpeggios along with the
    D Dorian scales.
    
    	whatever,
    	it sounds good.
    
    	joe.

    Something I picked up off Frank Gambale, which just uses the good ol'
    pentatonic minor, but can add some spice, and sounds WAAAY cool:
    
    Over an Am chord (say), don't just use the Am pentatonic - try using
    the Bm and Em pentatonics instead.
    
    The theory behind this is that a minor chord is often the II chord of a
    major scale. In a major scale there are 3 pentatonic minor scales -
    those built on the 2nd, 3rd and 6th degrees. In the example above,
    we're using the pentatonic minors from the 2nd, 3rd and 6th degrees of
    the G major scale.
    
    Although he only says to use these scales over the Am chord, with some
    judicious choice of notes, you can in fact use them over a whole I IV V
    progression.
    
    Nick

    -1
    
    I actually tried this once, but I'll definitely have to go back and try
    it again whilst paying more attention to how this sounds.  I usually
    use the same theory with the regular minor modes, but it never really
    hit me to try it with the minor pentatonic scales....
    
    Sheeesh, I shoulda hada V8!
    ;^)
    
    B.

    re .11
    
    	Yeah, Did you pick up that up from the article in Guitarist Mag.
    Nick?
    
    	This is outlined in the April issue, also there was a bit about
    arpeggios & a neat trick of omitting the root & adding the next degree
    of the harmonised scale, real simple, very effective but hardly used.
    
    	One thing that Frank said in the article was about playing mode 4
    of a minor scale (can't remember which over what).  I always under-
    stood that minor scales were variations of the major scale mode 6 or
    Aolian (natural minor) so he's building a mode off a mode
    (Hyper-modal????).  Am I analysing this right???  I'm really sticky on
    minors...any help appreciated here (:=="Help me Buck":-)).
    
    	Frank's books Techniques parts 1 & 2 look to be pretty good buys
    for the aspiring theoretician.
    
    	Cheers
    		Pete.

    -1
    
    Yes, modes built off of modes are refered to as "Hypermodes".
    
    What article and in what mag is the Gambale feature listed in?
    
    A curious to know Buck

    
    I was wondering if you are playing a bar chord (just the root and the
    fifth) and you drop the root a half step,  what does this change the 
    chord to????
    
    i.e. your playing a A root and the E fifth and you drop the A 
    down to G# still holding the E.....what chord is this now???
    
    i.e. your playing a C root and the G fifth and you drop the C
    down to B still holding the G......What chord is this now???
    
    Thanks,
    
    Ron.

    This is the scam..
    
    If you play A & E...you have an A5 (power) chord.
    
    If you drop the root a half-step, (G# & E), you have an E Major
    chord in first inversion!!!
    
    So, rule of thumb...when you drop the "root" a half step, it will
    be a 1st inversion voicing...use the "top" note in the other chord 
    to define the NEW chords root!!!

    PS...
    
    If you drop the "Root" note a whole step (ie  A & E  to  G & E), you'll
    have a 1st inversion MINOR chord.
    
    There you have it...
    B.

    An good example of this would be Journey's "Anyway you want it"...
    the chords are the following:
    
    		G5   	D/F#    E5
    
    (voiced)    D       D       B
                G       F#      E
    
    The band 38 Special is also a BIG fan of using these chord structures.
    It's actually a pretty basic but cool example of voice leading!
    
    B.

    
    Re .14
    
    Lead article Guitarist (UK Mag) April issue.  You wanna copy? 
    I'll Fax/xerox & mail if you do.  Just send details    
    (I could even scan it & Email it but that's a bit of overkill :-)).
    
    Cheers
    		Pete.

    Yup, I saw that in the Guitarist article - the first interview I've
    EVER read that was truly informative 8^)
    
    It definitely looks worth checking out his 2 new instructional tapes, I
    may even treat myself to them...
    
    Nick

    	It sounds like the same feature that's in Guitar Player mag.
    here in the states.
    
    	joe.

Mr Scary (AKA- George Lynch) from Dokken uses these ALL the time.

I call 'em "Lynch Chords"...  ;)

Am I right in saying the the FULL fingering would be like:

 ---------------
|  |  |  |  |  |
X  X  X  X  X  X  (bar here)
|  |  |  |  X  |
|  |  X  |  |  |
|  X  |  |  |  |
|  |  |  |  |  |


It's almost like a "C" formation barre chord.  Yes ??
Isn't this chord used in Spirit Of The Radio Buck ??

jc

    > What does this change the chord to???
    
    About half a dozen 38 Special tunes.
    
    I'm not a school theorist, but I don't think of that as a chord
    change but rather as a "moving bass line".
    
    Usually you'll see it notated like  C/B.
    
    	db

>                   -< Is it really a "chord change" at all >-

	It really depends on the context.  On piano, I use the first inversion 
all the time - it has a nice flavor when used in the right place.  If you're
only using it as a passing tone, it might not be necessary to consider it a 
chord.

	Dan

    The name of the chord should be relavant to the harmony it's in.
    
    With respect to replies .1 and .2, the naming of the chord may be
    different.  In my earlier replies, I showed how the chord works as a
    1st inversion major chord, in the example below, note how the chord is
    working more as a -6 (enharmonically #5) chord instead of the 1st
    inversion major:
    
              A-6  A5  
    
    (Voiced)  F    E
              A    A
    
    This voicing brings out the -6 voicing...while technically the first
    chord is an F major in 1st inversion, it doesn't sound like a major
    chord at all.  
    
    The above chord progression can be heard as the opening riff for
    Dokken's "Dream Warriors" and Yngwie Malmsteen's "I'll See the Light
    Tonight"
    
    B.

I've used this in several songs, just never knew what it was! A couple that 
come to mind include the Stones' "Sympathy For The Devil" (from a D) and 
The Beatles "I Saw Her Standing There" (from an E). 

Gee - now I can say "play an inverted A" instead of "move your finger here"!
The others won't understand me, but maybe they'll be impressed.....8^)

Alan S.

Yeah, and now I can say C over B or "1st inversion" (or is that perversion)
instead of "Lynch Chord NOW!"     ;)

jc

    Or C/B "no third" is how i've seen it in music books.
    

    I think we're talking about two kinds of chords here, or perhaps
    I should say *I* don't know which of the two we ARE talking about.
    
    In any case, C/B is not an inversion of Em.
    
    	db

    Where did C/B come from anyways?  At best, it's a C major 7th with the 
    7th in the bass?  Yuk!  Me thinks that combination would sound pretty
    out!
    
    G/B, now there's a workable inversion!

                              
    I bought Frank Gambale "Monster Licks and speed picking" video a 
    while back it it ws the biggest load of rubbish I've ever seen.
                                                             
    Sure the guy can burn scales but he was so mechanical - the guy
    wouldn't know feeling if it hit him in the mush!!
                              
    I nearly fell asleep through it.

    
    
    	Well...seeing as there was a bit of interest here I had a go at
    some of the things Frank suggests....Hmmmmm.
    
    I set my little synth off playing a funky(ish) Am7 with a straight
    bass line.
    
    	The Em pentatonic over the Am7 vamp sort of works & produced an 
    interesting feel.   
    
    	The Bm pentatonic  over Am7 really sounded strange & the only bits that
    actually work (to my ears) seemed the notes that were also derived from
    the Gmaj & A Dorian.  I guess if you sort of just ran up the thing real
    quick & then continued along in the A Dorian it would produce a "where
    the hell did he pull that one from" sort of reaction in a listener, but
    I think to base a solo on it in all but the most contemporary jazz
    situations would lead to a lynching :-).
    
    	Anyone else play with these, what do you reckon?
    Cheers
    		Pete.

    
    Thanks for all your replies....
    
    Ron.

    Actually, if you use the right voicing C/B sounds rather nice on
    the piano.   Not really like a CM7 - more like a suspension of
    some kind (perhaps Gsus4).
    
    More common slash chords
    
    	I/II		C/D
    	I/DomVII	C/Bb
    	Im7/IV		Am7/D
    	

	The note about geometry tutors put me up to this.

	Use the neck as a cartesian grid and play a few of your favorite
	functions.

	Pattern thrash yeids excellent results with a minimum of thought.
	Take a box on the neck


		7	6	5	4
		|---B---|---Bb--|---A---|
		|---E---|---Eb--|---D---|
		|---A---|---Ab--|---G---|
		|---D---|---Db--|---C---|
			   ....

	and play in patterns here.

	at 7fr. E A D A 6fr Eb Ab Eb 5fr D followed by B Bb A on 6str.
	followed by
	at 5fr. D G C G 6fr Eb Ab Eb 7fr E followed by A Bb B on 6str.

	Of course the rhythm should be compatible with an alla breve beat.

    Those 38 special chords keep the same root. It actually turns into an
    inversion of a major seventh ( although the bass keeps the actual root
    in many cases so the inversion isn't obvious ).
    
    							John.

    RE: .19
    
    Pete, I'm surprised you didn't like Bm pentatonic, I'm using it a lot
    now. I'm confused at your statement that
    
>    the only bits that
>    actually work (to my ears) seemed the notes that were also derived from
>    the Gmaj & A Dorian.
    
    The whole of the Bm pentatonic scale is derived from G maj/A dorian!
    A dorian is A B C D E F# G, and Bm pentatonic is B C E F# G which are
    all contained within A dorian.
    
    Maybe it's time to resurrect the UK DEC jams, so I can show you that it
    really does work!!
    
    Nick 

    
    
    .20... love it.. I've been thinking about that note myself, wish I'd
    said something earlier.. what I was thinking was: with a mom like that
    (the genuine concern came through) this kid has noooooo problems..
    
    	Anyway's... lemme see... X-1=Y.... would that be Layla???? <grin>
    

    >The whole of the Bm pentatonic scale is derived from G maj/A dorian!
    >A dorian is A B C D E F# G, and Bm pentatonic is B C E F# G which are
                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >all contained within A dorian.
    
    Nit correction here, Bm Pentatonic is: B  D  E  F#  A, but they're 
    still all contained within A Dorian.

    
    
    	re .21 & .23.
    
    Hmmmm, maybe I approached it wrong, I stuck the synth in an Am7 loop,
    then I just ran the suggested scales...Bm pentatonic sounded a bit off
    to me.  I'll have another shot tonight & I'll mix it round a bit & see
    if I can stop it sounding so scalic.
    
    	I must admit I'm working like hell to get some pieces learned for a 
    classical ensemble & I'm in a Vivaldi mode at present, maybe my ears
    hadn't adjusted:-)
    
    	If you wanna jam Nick I'm in Reading, gis a bell & we'll work
    somthing out.
    
    Cheers
    		Pete.

    RE: .23
    
    oops, thanks for spotting that typo Buck. It was a typo, honest!
    
    Nick

Speaking of pentatonics...

I notice some people in here talk about "minor" pentatonics. For example, an 
A minor pentatonic would be the notes A C D E G. I never think of pentatonics 
this way. I always think of pentatonics as major (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th and 6th 
degrees of the scale in a key) or altered (chromatically altering one of 
these scale degrees). I would call the example above a C pentatonic 
(C D E G A). If I'm in a minor key, like A minor, I think of it as using the 
relative major's pentatonic (C in this case). I'm not saying 
that this is right or wrong, it's just how *I* think of it, so everyone will 
know the terminology I'm using to talk about altered pentatonics.

I've been experimenting with altered pentatonics, and think they sound great 
(used in the right places) and are easy to derive.

The one that is my favorite is the b3 pentatonic. Using the C pentatonic 
(C, D, E, G, A) as an example, flat the 3rd degree to derive the altered 
pentatonic:  C, D, Eb, G, A. This is a great scale to use over a C minor 
chord/progression, and a good alternative to the Eb pentatonic, 
(Eb, F, G, Bb, C) which is what I consider to be the normal or most "inside" 
pentatonic to use over C minor.

More later.

Mike D

    -1
    
    Sure, C Major pentatonic is the same note pattern as A Minor
    pentatonic, but the licks are gonna be different!  In A minor,
    you're going to have that C - A pattern, as it is a very minor
    statement, but in A minor, are you really going to be playing licks
    like g - a - c...e - d - c (an overtly C major pent. lick)...I think
    not.  I mean, you *could*, but the tonal center in A minor isn't "C".
    
    Should I just shut up??

    I agree Buck. The scales C major pentatonic and Am pentatonic are
    extremely similar, but used very differently depending on the key of
    the song yer playin', and the "mood" ya want.  When using Cmaj pent in
    the key of C, I  play "southern rock" mood or a "major" blues feel,
    with the C note being "home".  Am pent works in A or Amin keys and,
    with A a the "home" note yer using the same notes as the C maj scale,
    but a whole different mood is created.  Should I shut up now?
    
    IMHO,
    
    Steve D.

Re -1 and -2. You're both right of course. It DOES make a difference where 
you base your tone center. When playing in A minor, I naturally shift my 
tone center to A instead of C. But I'm still "seeing" the same five notes, 
and that's just easier for me to remember.  Of course, if you purposely 
keep your tone center at C while playing in A minor, you can acheive some 
interesting results. In fact, don't stop there. I've tried shifting the 
tone center to the other notes in the scale as well. It gets a little 
tricky (mentally), but mixing it up like that can be advantageous (just 
because it's different).

Mike D 

    Changing the tonal center is a great way to create tension. You have to
    be careful about how you use it, however, because it generally requires
    a fair amount of syncopation to pull it off. You generally have to keep
    the tonics happening at the right places, but as transient notes in the
    phrase. Jeff Beck is exceptionally good at doing this. Something else
    he'll do is omit the tonics and perfects and let your imagination take
    care of it.
    
    							John.

	Anybody spot the transcription notes for "Potato Head Groove Thing"
	in GFTPM this month (Randy Rhodes cover)?

	One thing that struck me as weird is that it mentions using
	a scale that Joe Satriani refers to as "Phrygian Dominant"
	which looks to be Mixolydian with flatted second.

	Anybody seen more on this?

	Also - are there standard names for the `Hypermodes'?

    In the same issue, Joe's column has the "Hindu" Scale.
    
    Mike

	Yup. I think I'm gonna start plugging them into the matrix in
	note 1862 and see what's doing down...

    I've been hearing the term "passing" a lot lately, in reference to
    passing chords, tones, etc.
    
    What exactly is this?
    
    Mike

	<hack alert>

	The word `passing' is used in the same sense as `transitional'.
	They are used to carry you from one chord/tone to another. You'll
	see `em pop up in places off the beat and occasionally they will
	be `outside' - especially if used between scale degrees.

	A good book on Harmony will probably contain a fair amount of
	information on how and why they are used.

    The main thing about passing tones is they are notes that don't belong
    to the chord/key  you're dealing with (at least in a "classical" sense).
    
    A good simple example would be the lick commonly heard in Motown bass
    lines over a I chord that goes:
    
    I III IV bV V
    
    The IV and bV  are not contained in the major triad (which is I, III and
    V), and the bV is not even in the major scale.  As long as they are not
    heavily accented and they are used to "pass" between chord (or scale)
    tones, the passing tones wil not sound particularly dissonant.  
    
    					
    						Brian

    so how is passing different from modulating?  They sound similar to me.
    
    Mike

    Modulating is when the piece changes key.  A passing tone isn't
    necessarily out of key, but it's outside the chord the piece is on at
    the time.
    
    Songs commonly modulate up a half step at some point.  It sort of
    increases the tension and give more impact to the next chorus.  Kind of
    help build to a climax.  Like in Phil Collins "Groovy Kind of Love" the
    song modulates up a half step for the solo or last verse or something. 
    I never really listened to the record, but the guys I play with have it
    down cold and that's what we do.  The song is starts in key of G major
    when we do it and switches in the middle up to G# major.
    
    Passing tones sort of smooth out the rough edges that changing chords
    can create.  But the song doesn't change key.
    
    If other people have examples, maybe they could tell you what to listen
    for and you could hear what it sounds like.
    
    Will

    When I first started learning major scales, my teacher had me also
    practice playing them like this, using the note # of the scale:
    (not sure what this is called, thirds maybe?)  1-3, 2-4, 3-5, etc. 
    forwards and backwards, and also in a 1-3-5, 2-4-6, 3-5-7, etc.
    forwards and backwards.  It became obvious that this would help in
    building chords from the scale.  Is there anything else these practice
    routines lead up to?
    
    Mike

    -1
    
    Yes, that excercize you specifically mentioned leads up to buildings a
    good sense of ear training!  It's a great way to learn to hear diatonic
    3rd intervals!
    
    Sing along next time...
    
    do-me, ra-fa, me-sol, fa-la, sol-ti, la-do, ti-ra, do (and back down)

	Good for soloing too. It drives the chord spellings into your
	subconscious. I have them in my practice routines:

	1 3 5 7 9 11 13 15
	2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16
	3 5 7 9 11 13 15 2

	On and on and on....

    re:.37 
    Ok, I will cut my silence and give this a go.
    Passing tones and passing chord add tension to the music. And as Claire
    Fisher (keyboardist) put it, tension grabs the listeners ear and then
    the resolution puts it back down. Jazz musicians employ the tension
    and release scheme in a lot in their playing. 
    
    A simple example of using a passing tone :
    If the chords in a song are C to D to E, the bass player can
    play C C# D D# E,  assuming  each chord is played for four beats
    the C# should be played on the 4th beat, same for the D#. A passing
    chord that works in that progression is the diminish chord. So a
    C# dim and D# dim should work with most melodies. 
    Actually the simplest application of passing tones is playing the
    chromatic scale over a piece of music. All the tones that do not 
    belong to scale of the tonal center/key you are playing in are
    passing tones. (Did I confuse you? or Did I say that right?Eh...)
    
    Now modulation is a totally different beast. I had a tough time 
    understanding this ....but here goes.  I don't think I agree with
    the .39 or was it .38 explaination of modulation. What that person
    describe was a song changing key thus the key signature changed from
    G to G# which means the whole body of music moved up a half step.
    Modulation (from what I was taught) is when a there are key center
    shiffs/changes in a song howerver the key signature stays the same.
    There are many jazz tunes/old standard that modulate. They are great
    for learning to improvize, cause you got to stay with changes and
    always know where you are. Here are a few songs I can think of
    that modulate :
    All the Things you are (old standard)
    Blusette (modulates thru about 5 keys)
    Blue Bossa (Jazz standard)
    If you are in your twenties and don't play/listen jazz and don't own a
    REAL Book then you won't have acces to those tunes. Actually there
    many, many more of the old standards where the chords modulate. I can't
    think of any popular songs but there must be a few. (Spinning Wheel..)
    
    Here is a simplified example:
    Key of Bb    
             Cm7|||| F7|||| Fm7||||C7||||Cm7||||G7||||......BbMaj7
    
    Cm7 to G7 -key center- Bb  II V progression play Bb scale
    Fm7 to D7 -key center- Eb  II V progression play Eb scale
    Dm7 to G7 -key center- Ab  II V progression play Ab scale
    
    So in the example the chords modulated to 2 different keys. However
    the key signature stayed the same. Try playing a Bb scale over those
    changes....it won't work, let me tell you I had a tough time figuring
    that out myself not knowing about how chords function ... that I ii iii
    IV V vi vii system. To be able to recognize modulation you must
    understand how chords function. Well I learnt about that stuff
    analysing a classical piece for my piano teacher years ago.
    
    BTW a little passing note thing I like doing on bass for all those
    I vi ii V - C Am Dm G tunes is play a walking line when each chord
    gets 2 beats :
    
    C G# A C# D F# G Bb C or  C Bb A Eb D G# G C# C or any perm. you so 
    disire. 
    
    Errol ("the Silent noter") 

    My teacher used the tune "Ain't Misbehavin'" as an example of passing
    tones and modulation.  There's a whole lot going on there in that tune 
    that I didn't realize before!
    
    Mike

    re .-2
    
    Right.  Modulation is a key change, whether it stays or not.  The
    example I thought of was just the simplest I knew.
    
    And our band does Blue Bossa.  Nice modulation in that one.
    
    Will

    I've been working with identifying chord changes by ear lately.  Does
    anyone have advice/hints/secrets for picking up changes by ear? 
    
    Thanks,
    Mike

    -1
    
    Well, one thing I think that helps alot is playing the 4 inversions of
    Maj7, Min7, Min7b5, Dim7, etc chords, and learning to hear the
    qualities and textures that make them min7, maj7, etc. chords in the
    first place.  Using the different inversions helps this process along,
    becuase they're not always going to appear in drop 2/4 voicings!
    
    Also, some brusing up in commonly voice-lead chords, and voice-leading
    in general helps out a lot.  Again, chords almost never appear in root
    position form!

I think chord changes can be incredibly difficult.  For me, melodies are much,
much easier.  Nonetheless, here's what I do (this is similar to what Jens 
Moeller (sorry if I mispelled that, Jens) has suggested in some other place
that I can't remember):

	1. Get the bass notes for each chord.

	2. Decide if the chord over that bass note is basically
           major or minor or something else.

	3. For the major and minor sounding chords:

		Decide if the chord has extensions (liks 7ths, 6ths, 
		9ths, etc) or if it is a simple major or minor chord. If it's
		a simple major or minor (or 5th -- no third) chord, you're done.
		Otherwise, add* the extensions until the chord sounds "complete".

		I have been fooled more than once at this point by someone 
		using a goofy (i.e. unknown to me) chord voicing.  In this case,
		I had the right chord but it didn't sound right because I was
		voicing it differently than the artist that recorded it.

	4. If the chord is "something else" and doesn't feel major or minor,
	   it is usually suspended (1,4,5) or (1,2,5), etc.

	5. If the chord sounds grocked it is augmented or diminished. :)

* This is a little like, "...now assemble the rocket" - sorry.

Obviously, this "method" needs some help, but that's basically what I do.  The 
other thing that can't be stressed enough is to play and carefully listen to all 
types of chords.  The more familiar you get with different chord 
sounds, the larger your in-ear chord library becomes.  After a time, you just
know what particular chord is being played and the number of chords that give
you trouble becomes smaller and smaller.

But, then again, there's this song by Bill Connors called Assember that has
these wierd-ass chords that I have *never* been able to figure out.  Free beer
to the person that posts them here!

steve

    Where is the Berklee 6 Pack (scales)?  I can't find it!
    
    Mike

    -1
    
    Sheeesh, Greevie King was asking for those a while back.  I *think*
    they're hiding in the Lyxx / Trixx / Runz note, but am not sure.
    
    
    I'll look.
    me

    I moved these from the scale note since they're chords.  I still need
    someone (Buck?) to help me out here.
    
    Thanks,
    Mike
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    I've come across some interesting sounding chords that I can't seem to
    figure out what they are.  None of them seem to fit well into my chord
    building guide in .34 either.  Could somebody help me out here?
    The left column is just your basic E chord played at the third fret,
    the center column is     "     "   A   "     "        "  fifth  "  ,
    the right column  is     "     "   D   "     "        "    "    "  .
    
    ===========               ===========           ===========
    | | | | | |               | | | | | |           | | | | | |    
    | | | | | |               | | | | | |           | | | | | |    
    | | | 1 | |               | | | | | |           | | | | | |    
    | 2 3 | | |               | | | | | |           | | | | | |    
                              x 1 2 3 | |           x x o 1 | 2
                                                            3
    this one looks            this looks like       I thought it was
    like some E chord         an A chord            some D chord, but
    but I don't know          without the root.     there isn't a G#
    what 1 2 b5 builds.       Don't know what       in D.
                              2 3 5 6 builds.
    
    This one is also from Steve Vai's "I Would Love To".  It is some form of 
    a movable chord (He uses it at the 5th and 7th frets in the song).  It is 
    a 1 2 5 7 chord at the 5th fret, but I'm not sure what D it is.
    
    ===========
    | | | | | |    
    | | | | | |    
    | | | | | |    
    | | | | | |    
    x 1 | | 2 |           
      | | 3 | |
      | 4 | | |
      
    Which spells out to a D E A C# or 1 2 5 7, depending on how you look at
    it.
    
    Mike
    

    >The left column is just your basic E chord played at the third fret,
    >the center column is     "     "   A   "     "        "  fifth  "  ,
    >the right column  is     "     "   D   "     "        "    "    "  .
    >   #1                        #2                    #3   
    ===========               ===========           ===========
    | | | | | |               | | | | | |           | | | | | |    
    | | | | | |               | | | | | |           | | | | | |    
    | | | 1 | |               | | | | | |           | | | | | |    
    | 2 3 | | |               | | | | | |           | | | | | |    
                              x 1 2 3 | |           x x o 1 | 2
     							    3
    
    #1 - Hmmm, you didn't specify which notes were to be played, so I
    assume all of them, in which case *I* would call this chord an F#11/E.
    
    #2 - This looks like the weirdest Cmaj7/9 voicing I've ever seen!
    
    #3 - A Dmin7 chord if I ever saw one.
    
    >===========
    >x 1 | | 2 |-5th fret           
    >  | | 3 | |
    >  | 4 | | |
   
    Looks like it could be an Aadd11, or a Dmaj7/9, depening on how it was
    used (voice led from?).

    
    
    
    	YO!!! Mikey.. I set a marker to the 6-pack sos I wouldn't lose it
    again... It's in 470
    
    
    Regards,
    Gree Vee

    Re: Marker
    
    Steve, I added a keyword!  I added a keyword! ;-)  It's called BERKLEE.
    
    Mike

    
    
    	Oh, OK..  
    
    
    
    Gree Vee
    
    1 mind, 1 soul, 1 hand, 1 body (looks like 2, though)

    >the center column is     "     "   A   "     "        "  fifth  "  ,
    >the right column  is     "     "   D   "     "        "    "    "  .
    >   #1                        #2                    #3   
    ===========               ===========           ===========
    | | | | | |               | | | | | |           | | | | | |    
    | | | | | |               | | | | | |           | | | | | |    
    | | | 1 | |               | | | | | |           | | | | | |    
    | 2 3 | | |               | | | | | |           | | | | | |    
                              x 1 2 3 | |           x x o 1 | 2
     							    3
    
>    #2 - This looks like the weirdest Cmaj7/9 voicing I've ever seen!
    
    A noter pointed out to me offline that I goofed.  The typical A chord
    is played with the A string open.  The center one above should be:
    
        #2                
    ===========
    | | | | | |    
    | | | | | |    
    | | | | | |    
    | | | | | |    
    x o 1 2 3 |           
    
    So would this be an Amaj7?    
    
>    #3 - A Dmin7 chord if I ever saw one.
    
    I came up with 1 3 5 7 so I guessed Dmaj7.  I didn't see a flatted 3rd.
    Where is it?
    
    Thanks,
    Mike

>>    #3 - A Dmin7 chord if I ever saw one.
>    
>    I came up with 1 3 5 7 so I guessed Dmaj7.  I didn't see a flatted 3rd.
>    Where is it?
    
    The F is the flatted 3rd.  These notes would only be 1 3 5 7 if there
    were no accidentals in the key of D.
    
    You said the pattern was at the 5th fret which would yield the notes D,
    C, F, A.  That's Root, b7th, b3rd, and 5th.  Looks like a Dmin7 to me.
    
    Greg
                                                                          

    Housemeister is right...D F A C spells a Dmin7 in my book!  ;^)
    
    Now,      
    ===========
    | | | | | |    
    | | | | | |    
    | | | | | |    
    | | | | | |    
    x o 1 2 3 |           
    
    >So would this be an Amaj7?    
    
    Well, you said earlier it was in the 5th fret, right?  That would make
    it A G C E, which isn't an Amaj7...looks more like an Amin7!
    
    Check those accidentals Mikey!

    
    
    
    
    		House, you and Buck dazzle and amaze me....
    
    
    
    Steve

    Somewhere in here I wrote a long note on how to pick up the chords
    from a recording.
    
    I personally don't have any problems with the standard chords, major,
    minor, maj7, min7, etc.
    
    My favorite tunes these days are tunes with extended chords (9ths,
    11ths, 13ths) with various substitutions (b5, etc.).
    
    So what I do is very simple:  I listen for the bass, and then I try
    to hear the chord above e the base.  For example, I would "hear" a
    C11 as a Gm7 over a C bass(1).  
    
    So if you can "isolate" the bass line, and if you can identify triads
    and the standard 4 note chords, you can have two individual techniques
    that you can combine to pick out a lot of jazz chords.
    
    	db 
    
    (1) Yes, that misses the third, but I've found that the third is
    frequently ommitted in the chord voicings you use for these kinds of
    chords.
    
    Basically, I'm not a fan of the third for either extended keyboard
    chords or guitar-with-distortion chords - Fred Ab. and I were recording
    with our band last night and I thought he was gonna deck me for once
    again telling him to leave out the third ;-)

    >		House, you and Buck dazzle and amaze me....

    I leave the dazzle stuff to Buck!  I do find it pretty interesting and
    enjoy learning that sort of thing though.

    Greg (not all that theory knowledgeable)

    No...don't leave the dazzle stuff to Buck...my knowledge is pretty
    limited.  There are others in here (they know who they are!) who 
    are more frighteningly "up" on this stuff than I am!
    
    Buck, just a rock guitarist

    Re: accidentals
    
    What are these?  I've heard of "natural" notes where, for example, a
    naturalized Bb in the key of F becomes a B.
    
    Mike

    Accidentals can roughly translate into sharps and flats.  Like, the
    accidentals in the key of E major are C#, D#, F#, G#!  The accidental
    in a G minor chord is a Bb...get it?
    
    Buck, probably bastardizing an explanation of this I bet!

    So the key of C has NO accidentals?  
    
    In the case of the Dmin7, I thought since it has a flatted F in it, it
    would have to played on the fretboard.
    
    Mike

    An accidental is one of those notes you really wish you hadn't played
    during your solo.
    
    Actually, you seem to have it backwards. Accidentals are sharps, flats
    or naturals in a piece of music that are not contained in the key
    signature. Any sharp or flat in the key of C would be an accidental,
    as would a B natural in the key of F.
    
    Danny W.
    

    I'm still confused on the example though.  This chord
    
    ===========
    | | | | | |
    | | | | | |
    | | | | | |
    | | | | | |
    | | | 1 | 2
    x x o | 3 |
    
    only has the notes D F A C in it and was called a Dmin7.  The F is
    supposed to be sharp in D, but has to be flatted for a minor chord.  
    Is this the accidental?
    
    Mike

    
    Mike, Dmin7 doesn't exist in the key of D *major*.  In a given key,
    chords are built only from scale tones.  Dmin7 *does* exist in
    the key of F (it's the VIm7), also the key of C major, A minor, D
    minor, etc. and the F is *not* an accidental in those keys.
    
    							Brian

    Brian, thanks for the clarification.  I guess I didn't take the key
    into consideration.  It appears I was using the root note as being
    the key (I know they're totally different).
    
    Now I can see how to figure it out.  D C F A only occur in the C and F
    major scales.  In the case of C, the #2 note is a minor seventh, and in
    F, it is the relative minor (seventh added?).  
    
    Thanks for the help,
    Mike

    Uh, from my limited theory exposure...in the classical sense, most
    basic texts only discuss building triads from scale tones.  Four (or
    more) note chords aren't covered in that sense. They also only discuss
    triads made by stacking thirds.  You can build chords of other
    intervals (that is, if you consider a chord any cluster of three or
    more notes) but some can be quite dissonant if they use lots of
    non-scale tones.
    
    For instance, Russian composer Alexander Scriabin called this stack of
    fourths the "mystic chord".  Starting on C:
    
    C F# Bb E A D
    
    Two of those tones aren't in the C major scale.  In fact, I'm sure 
    that *no* major scale has all six notes.  If you rearrange the order
    you have:
    
    A Bb C D E F#
    
    That's a half-step followed by four whole steps, those last two whole
    steps are what prevents you from getting this chord out of a major
    scale, maybe one of the altered minors (harmonic or melodic) could give
    you this?  Cool, though...don't know if you can play it easily on a git,
    but it's easy on a piano and sounds great for your Mahavishnu Orchestra
    covers...

    When a chord is written in the form of, B/E, does this mean to play a B
    with an E in the bass?
    
    Mike

    What is this chord called?
    
        3     2     1
    E ----|----|----X
    A Open
    D ----|----|-o--              
    G ----|----|-o--           
    B Open
    E Open
    
    To put it simply, it's the same position as an E minor chord brought
    down to the D and G strings.
    
    (Moderator, please feel free to move this to an appropriate topic if
    one exists.) 
    
    
    Wes
    

    There is another chord topic, but it looks like an Esus or an Asus. 
    I've seen it referred to as both, not sure which is correct.
    
    Mike

    Sorry, I made a mistake in the diagram. I should have put the 
    "o's" up a fret for both notes. 
    

I'd call that "A suspended 2nd" or Asus2 for short. However, chords can
have more than 1 name depending on which note you assume to be the root
note.... 
*DC

    Wes, I just found it confusing, but I guess that's what we would see if
    I watched you play it.  Most people in here use this diagram for chords
    and scales:
    
    ===========
    x o | | o o
    | | 1 2 | |
    | | | | | |
    
    This is how I would've drawn your chord.  It is an Asus2 or Esus4.
    
    Mike

    Okay, thanks all. Again, sorry for the confusion. 
    
    

A quick question - what would you call this chord???

    
    ===========
    | | | | 0 |
    | | | 0 | |
    | | 0 | | |
    | | | | | |
    | | | | | |
    x 0 2 2 1 0

I thought it might be some variation on the F7 (because of the open high-E),
but then the open A is thrown in there.....would it be F7/A? Or maybe a 
variation on Am?

thanx,
alan

    re .-1
    
    I'd still call it an Fmaj7 (not F7; that has an Eb instead of an E).
    The A note is part of the chord. If you want to call it something from
    the standpoint of the A note, you could call it an Am-6, I guess.
    
    -Dave

    -1
    
    Dave dude got it right...Fmaj7/A (sorta in 1st inv.)

    
    Fmaj7/A?  
    
    No way, that's the standard folkie's Am chord....  
    
    Where is there an F in there?  I get A (open), E (D, 2nd fret), A (G,
    2nd fret), C (B, 1st fret), E (open).  Maybe if you played the *third*
    fret on the D string...that's kinda what the picture looks like, but
    the numbers below disagree...
    
    						Brian

Sorry, Brian. The picture is right and the number is wrong. It should be the 
3rd fret on the D string....

alan

FWIW, Fmaj7 sometimes makes a good substitution for Am.

    For a nice varation of the Dm7add9 play that chord when D is played
    in the bass.  (DFACE)

    What are the main differences between a x2 chord and a x9 chord and are
    they pretty much interchangeable?
    
    I've seen a lot of x2 chords specifically written on sheet music.
    
    Mike

    RE: <<< Note 1754.223 by PNO::HEISER "hell is for wimps" >>>

>>    What are the main differences between a x2 chord and a x9 chord and are
>>    they pretty much interchangeable?
    
    9th cords imply a dominant 7th. A maj9 cord would require a major 7th.
    For example:
    
    	C9 consists of the notes C, E, G, Bb, and D.
        Cmaj9 consists of the notes C, E, G, B, and D.
    
    A 2 cord would probably be a suspended cord, e.g. Csus2.  The major
    third is "suspended" for a second.  Csus2 would be contain C, D, and
    G.
    
    An add-9 cord adds the ninth without requiring the seventh.  C Add 9
    would consist of C, E, G, and D.
    
    Are they interchangeable?  They "feel" different.  Maj9 cords sound
    jazzy to me.  Dominant 9th cords seem to create more tension-- they
    have a strong need to be resolved (e.g. C9 wants to resolve to and F 
    cord).  Add 9 cords and sus2 cords have an open, ringing sound
    (at least to my ears).  I wouldn't say they are interchangeagle, but
    there is plenty of room for experimentation.  If it sounds good to you,
    it sounds good.
    
    If you want to substitute a 9-type cord for an Add 9 cord or sus-2 cord, 
    make sure you use the proper 7th-- e.g. in the key of C, you would 
    (under most circumstances) want a Cmaj9 cord, but in the key of F you
    would use a C9.
    
    Jim

    Umm...  I'll have to say that I'm not really clear on the answer you
    gave, Jim.
    
    If I notate something as X2, as you saying that's implying Xsus2?  That
    doesn't seem consistant to me, as Xn typically implies a dominant
    chord.  Wouldn't a dominant 2nd chord have the same notes and feel as a
    dominant 9th chord?
    
    Mike and I were having a discussion which triggered this question and I
    said I didn't think there was such a think as a dominant 2nd chord,
    that it would be notated as a 9th and he said he'd seen sheet music
    with 2nd chords which left us both confused.
    
    Thanks, but still a little puzzled.
    
    Greg                                        

>    Mike and I were having a discussion which triggered this question and I
>    said I didn't think there was such a think as a dominant 2nd chord,
>    that it would be notated as a 9th and he said he'd seen sheet music
>    with 2nd chords which left us both confused.
    
    I once asked about it in here too.  I wanted to know what an E2 chord
    was and remember putting it in the now extinct "Wow! Wierd Chords"
    topic.
    
    I've seen it on 2 songs that I have sheet music for.  One is by Phil
    Keaggy and the other Petra.
    
    Mike

    re: last couple
    
    I guess I'm a little confused too.  I have always (I think) seen 
    a "2nd chord" expressed as a 9 or add9, depending on the lack of, or
    presence of, a 7th in the chord.  
    
    I have seen suspended 2nd chords--  where the third is dropped and
    replaced by the second.   I was guessing that what you meant an xsus2
    chord when you said x2. 
    
    There are two possibilities that come to mind for an x2 chord:
    
        o A non-standard notation for either xsus2 or xadd9.
    
        o xadd9, where the desired inversion is to put the 2nd below
          the 3rd, instead of above the 5th.
    
    Either way, I don't think it's "standard" notation.  But then again,
    the standardization of the representation of chords leaves a lot to be
    desired.
    
    Out of curiosity, what notes are in the piano part at the point the
    x2 chord is specified?
    
    Jim

>                  <<< Note 1754.227 by GLASS::ALLBERY "Jim" >>>
>    Out of curiosity, what notes are in the piano part at the point the
>    x2 chord is specified?
    
    Jim, which clef is that? (bare with me ;-))  The top G clef is for
    guitar, right?  There is another G clef below the lyrics that has the
    bass lines in it.  Then there is another clef at the bottom (not sure
    what it is, C clef maybe?) that looks like a backwards C.  For piano,
    are the bass lines the left hand and the top G clef the right hand?
    I have no idea what the bottom one is.
    
    Mike

    If I was to grab a sus2 on the keyboard (using a Csus2 as an example)
    I'd use G-C-D over a C bass, like the second chord in the verse to
    Crowded House's "Don't Dream It's Over".
    
    Of course, maybe sus2 ain't the right name...
    
    Edd

    I think I have a definitive answer to the original question.  I was
    reading a back issue of guitar player (the '90 issue with Alan
    Holdsworth on the cover) and read an editor's note in one of the columns
    stating that an x2 chord is another way to represent an add9 chord. 
    The editor also stated that this notation has not been universally
    accepted.   Or in other words, C2 = C, E, G, and D.
    
    To answer your questions about the clefs in the piano part, if the
    sheet music uses three staff notation, the top staff is usually the
    vocal part, written in treble clef (the top line of the staff is an F).
    The two staffs below are the piano part.  The upper staff is for the
    right hand, and is almost always written using the treble clef.  The
    lower staff is for the left hand, and is almost always written using
    a bass clef (the one that looks sort of like a big backwards C with a
    colon after it).  The lowest line for the treble clef is an e (the e
    above middle c).  The lowest line on the the bass clef is a g (the g
    below the c below middle c).  Note that guitar parts are written in
    the treble clef, but sound one octave lower than written.  Similarly,
    bass parts are written in the bass clef, but also sound an octave
    lower than written.
    
    In most pop arrangements, the left hand plays a bass line, which is
    often augmented with some chords.  The right hand plays the melody,
    with additional notes fill out the chordal structure and harmony.  I
    was interested in the combination of notes in both clefs.
    
    Jim
    

    I get 7/8 time in treble and 4/4 in bass????
    
    Edd

From: robertt@hp-vcd.HP.COM (Bob Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers
Subject: Re: Chord inversions
Date: 9 Jan 91 18:15:59 GMT

Quickie theory:

An inverted chord is one in which the root (a C in a C Major chord)  is not
the lowest/bottom note in the chord.  A first inversion has the third (an E
in a C Major chord) as the lowest and a second inversion has the fifth (a G
in a C Major chord) as the lowest.  The three, although being the "same
chord" do sound differently.  The standard non-inverted chord will typically
sound more solid (you don't usually want to end a tune on an inverted chord -
the ending seems kind of week), while the other two work well in passing 
chord situations, etc..  In standard composition (i.e., by the books), inversionis often used to create smooth base lines (i.e., when going from a C Major to
an F Major chord, setting the C Major as non-inverted and the F Major as a
second inversion allows the base to stay on a C).

hope that helps -

Bob Taylor
HP Vancouver

    I have a question on non-barre moveable major chord forms.  This one I
    know about:  Using the string 5 (A) as the root:
    
    x         o
    ===========
    | | | | | |
    | 1 | | | |           B major
    | | | | | |
    | | 3 3 3 |
    
    Are there any using the string 6 (low E) or string 4 (D) as the root?
    I usually use an E form barre for string 6 now.
    
    Mike

    Mike,
    
    Here's on I use a lot...has a nice open voicing:
    
        | | | | | |
        +-+-+-+-+-+
    	| | | 1 | |   five
    	+-+-+-+-+-+
        | | | | 2 |   root
    	+-+-+-+-+-+
        | | 3 | | |   three
        +-+-+-+-+-+
        | 4 | | | |   root
        +-+-+-+-+-+
        | | | | | |
    
    It's a stretch on the first four or five frets, but like all bitchy
    chords it comes with practice.

    You can also add another third on the E string by doing a partial barr
    across the G/B/E with the index finger.  I like the sound of this chord
    form too!
    
    How about a nice Maj7th:
    
    ==x=======x
    | | | | | |
    | | | | | |
    1 | | | 2 |
    | | 3 4 | |
    | | | | | |
    | | | | | |
    
    Greg

    ===========
    | | 1 | | |
    | | | | | |
    | | | 3 | 3
    | | | | 4 |
    | | | | | |
    | | | | | |     Move the open D Chord up.. Good for the fingers!
    
    
                   

    I like this Maj7th:
    
    ===========
    | | 1 | | |
    | | | | | |
    | | | 3 3 3
    | | | | | |

>  <<< Note 1754.239 by WMOIS::T_NELSON "On a Beer day you can Pee forever" >>>
>    ===========
>    | | 1 | | |
>    | | | | | |
>    | | | 3 | 3
>    | | | | 4 |
>    | | | | | |
>    | | | | | |     Move the open D Chord up.. Good for the fingers!
    
    Thanks, this looks like what I'm looking for!
    
    As for other possibilities, this one is cool if played on all 6 strings
    (courtesy of Satch's column in GFTPM).  Some nice tension in there:
    It is basically a partial E form barre.  Try it at frets 1, 3, 5, 7, 8,
    and 10.
    
    ===========
    | | | | | |
    1 | | | | |
    | | | 2 | |
    | 3 4 | | |
    
    Some jazzy sounding chords my new instructor showed me the other day:
    
    ===========        ===========
    | | | | | |        | | | | | |
    | | 1 | | |        | | 1 | | |
    | | | | | |        | | | 3 3 3
    | | | 3 3 3
    
    they sound cool played one after the other.  One of them is a
    diminished chord and the other (if I remember right) is a min7b5.  I
    can't tell for sure without my notes here ;-)
    
    Mike
    

   
>>    ===========        ===========
>>    | | | | | |        | | | | | |
>>    | | 1 | | |        | | 1 | | |
>>    | | | | | |        | | | 3 3 3
>>    | | | 3 3 3

>>  ...One of them is a diminished chord and the other (if I remember right) is
>>  a min7b5.  I can't tell for sure without my notes here ;-)
    
Actually, I'd call the first (leftmost) one a maj7 (Buck posted this one a 
couple of replies back) and the second one a min7b5 chord.  No diminished here.
You could make the second one diminished like so (which is movable):


      ===========
      | | | | | |
      | | 1 | 3 |
      | | | 2 | 4


steve

Re -.1:  I can't write out fingering charts without a guitar in hand! :)
	 This might be a better fingering:

	      ===========
 	      x x | | | |
  	      | | 1 | 2 |
   	      | | | 3 | 4

	 Also note the x's on the E and A strings; they're not played.

    Yeah Steve you're right.  I told you I was guessng ;-)
    
    I'll bring in my notes tomorrow and post some more.
    
    Mike

    
    
    
    	Hey I got one... but I'm drooling over that major seventh that Buck
    showed.. what a cool sound... I usually play the one that looks like an
    upside down triangle with a bar behind it (technical terms fellas,
    deeeeal with it).. but this one is a hell of a lot brighter!  Here's a
    movable 13th (I think) with the root on the 6th string...  I call it
    Gree Vee 13th, but I'm not egotistical or anything...
    
    
    e a d g b e
    
    1 x 2     x
          3
            4

    Greve, you crack me up! ;-)
    
     ===========     ===========
     | | | | | |     | | | | | |
     | | 1 | | |     | 1 | | | |
     | | | | 2 |     | | | 2 | |
           3   4         3   4
    
    Are one of these the other maj7th you referred to?
    
    Here's a movable minor for ya (I just remembered this one):
    
     ===========
     | | | | | |
     | | 1 | | |
     | | | | 2 2
     | | | 3 | |
    
    
    Mike

>     ===========     ===========
>     | | | | | |     | | | | | |
>     | | 1 | | |     | 1 | | | |
>     | | | | 2 |     | | | 2 | |
>           3   4         3   4
>    
>    Are one of these the other maj7th you referred to?
 
    The first one is a Dom7, the second one is a Maj7th.
      
>        Here's a movable minor for ya (I just remembered this one):
>    
>     ===========
>     | | | | | |
>     | | 1 | | |
>     | | | | 2 2
>     | | | 3 | |
    
Minor7th...
    
    Greg    

    I dont' wanna blow away any of you techo-whiz-bangs, but here's a REAL 
    hot chord for y'all:
    
>     ===========     
>     | | | | | |     
>     | 1 | | | |     
>     2 | | | 3 3     
                   
    
    I'm not sure what it's called either, but it sure screams thru a
    overdriven amp.  Here's another (bar type):
 
>     ===========     
>     | | | | | |     
>     | | | | | |     
>     | 1---| | |
      | | | | | |
      | | 3 4 | |
    
    
    You guys crack me up.
    
    jc

>     ===========     
>     | | | | | |     
>     | | | | | |     
>     | 1---| | |
>     | | | | | |
>     | | 3 4 | |
    
    This would be a Csus.  This comes from the A form barre.
    
    Mike

    re: .-1  
    
    sus2 (careful, because sus alone implies sus4 and that's different).
    
    re: .-2
    
>    I dont' wanna blow away any of you techo-whiz-bangs, but here's a REAL 
>    hot chord for y'all:
>    
>>     ===========     
>>     | | | | | |     
>>     | 1 | | | |     
>>     2 | | | 3 3     
 
    I'm no techno-whiz-bang, but I know a freekin G chord when I see one! 
    It wouldn't be practical to try and move that form around because it
    would be difficult to keep from sounding the two middle strings.
    
    Greg                            

    Yeah, your a reverb head...
    
    :)
    
    .250, by Greg>sus2 (careful, because sus alone implies sus4 and 
                  that's different).
    
    Sus-cuss...
    
    I say Pffffttttt....
    
    Power chords rule.  You don't hear much 'sus' and Maj 9th Diminished
    on the radio.  K*I*S*S*, is what I say.
    
    jc

    Yup, that's a 13th, though you might want to try adding in the 9 so it
    becomes:
    
    
    |  |  |  |  |  |
    ----------------
    1  x  2  |  |  |
    ----------------
    |  |  |  3  |  |
    ----------------
    |  |  |  |  4  4
    ----------------
    
    An' if your one of these people who plays with yer thumb, you can turn
    it into a 13 flat 9:
    
    |  |  |  |  |  |
    ----------------
    T  x  1  |  |  |
    ----------------
    |  |  |  2  |  3
    ----------------
    |  |  |  |  4  |
    ----------------
    
    This is a very Carlton-esque chord, but I can't get me head round using
    the thumb... ho hum.
    
    Nick

         Root 6           Root 5       Root 4
    
        ===========    ===========   ===========
        | | | | | |    | | | | | |   | | | | | |
maj7ths 1 | | | | |    | 1 | | | |   | | 1 | | | 
        | | 2 3 | |    | | | 2 | |   | | | | | |
        | 4 | | | |    | | 3 | 4 |   | | | 3 3 3
    
        ===========    ===========   ===========
        | | | | | |    | | | | | |   | | | | | |
dom7ths 1 | 1 | | |    | 1 | 1 | |   | | 1 | | | 
        | | | 2 | |    | | | | | |   | | | | 2 |
        | 3 | | | |    | | 3 | 4 |   | | | 3 | 4
    
        ===========    ===========   ===========
        | | | | | |    | | | | | |   | | | | | |
min7ths 1 | 1 1 | |    | 1 | 1 | |   | | 1 | | | 
        | | | | | |    | | | | 2 |   | | | | 2 2
        | 3 | | | |    | | 3 | | |   | | | 3 | |
    
          ===========    ===========   ===========
          | | | | | |    | | | | | |   | | | | | |
min7b5ths 1 | 1 1 | |    | 1 | 2 | |   | | 1 | | | 
          | 2 | | | |    | | 3 | 4 |   | | | 3 3 3
          | | | | | |    | | | | | |   | | | | | |
    
        ===========    ===========   ===========
        | | 1 | | |    | | | 1 | |   | | | | | |
dim7ths 2 | | 3 | |    | 2 | | | |   | | 1 | 2 | 
        | 4 | | | |    | | 3 | 4 |   | | | 3 | 4
        | | | | | |    | | | | | |   | | | | | |
    

    Alright Mikey...way to go!
    
    Here's a fun-fav of mine:
    
    ===========
    | | | | | |
    | o | | o |  13th chord!
    | | o o | |
    | | | | | | 

    Here's a movable maj7th form I haven't seen posted today (movable as
    long as you mute the low E and A):
    
        x=x========   
        | | | | | | 
        | | 1 1 1 | 
        | | | | | |   
        | | | | | 3   
    
    Goes well with the previously posted
    
        x=x========   
        | | | | | | 
        | | 1 | | | 
        | | | | | |   
        | | | 3 3 3   
    
    		 						Marc

    Here's one I find myself playing a lot in blues tunes:
    
    instead of V7 to end the last turnaround going into I7
    to start the next time through, play 
    
    Vaug9 going to I9, as in ...
    
       Daug9                       G9
    
    ===========                ===========
    | | | | | |                | | | | | |
    | | | | | |                | o | o | |
    | o | o | |        to      | | o | o |
    | | o | | |                | | | | | |
    | | | | o |                | | | | | |
    
                       or
    
        Gaug9                      C9
    
    ===========                ===========
    | | | | | |                | | | | | |
    | | | | | |                | | o | | |
    o | o | | |        to      | o | o o o
    | | | o o |                | | | | | |
    | | | | | o                | | | | | |

	X=========X
	  | | | |
	  | 1 | |
	  2   3 |
	        4

Don't know what this is called but works great as a substitute for the
dominant V or V7 ( using the 2nd finger as the root ). It's got both
major and minor thirds in a dominant seventh chord. Possibly called an
augmented nine?
							Jophn.

    -1
    
    It's a Dom7+9

    I always called it "the jimi chord" too...
    
    In fact, I like that name better than Dom7+9.  I think I'll stick with
    it.   ;)

    
    
    
    	I've always called it a raised 9th and never knew why... hmmm maybe
    I still don't.  The rasied 9th refers to the plus 9, right?
    
    
    Steve

    + refers to augmentation.  Raised, Sharped, augmented...all da same
    IMHO!

    Here's a really pretty alternative to the V chord for turnarounds:  
      
        | x | | | x    | x | | | x   | | | | | |
        | | | | 1 |    | | | | 1 |   1 | | | 1 1 
        | | | | | |    2 | 3 | | |   | | | 2 | |
        2 | 3 4 | |    | | | 4 | |   | 3 4 | | |
        | | | | | |    | | | | | |   | | | | | |
    
    Not sure, but the first one looks to me to be an V11, the second
    one looks like V7b5.  Nice voicings.
    

    Well I have some more jazz stuff since I had another lesson last night. 
    I was promised we'll do some rock stuff next week ;-)  I'm enjoying the
    jazz info, but it doesn't sound too well with distortion ;-)  Some of
    this stuff is really pretty sounding though.
    
    Common Jazz Chord Progressions
    ------------------------------
    
    II   V   I
    VI   II  V   I
    III (or I)   VI  II  V  I
    
    Secondary Dominants
    -------------------
    Any chord can be turned into a dom7.  Usually  VI7 and III7.
    
    Flat 5th Substitutions
    ----------------------
    Any chord can be substituted with a chord a b5 away from the chord
    you're going to.  Usually the VI and V.  Try this progression for 
    an example: (key of C) Dm7  G7 Cmaj7.  We could substitute the G7 with
    a Db7 (which is a b5 away from G7).
    
    Altered Dominant 7ths
    ---------------------
    I have a map of 4 different maj7 forms that he gave me showing how you
    can easily add any of the following:  #5  b5  #9  b9.  This would give
    you the altered dominant 7ths.
    
    Ever wonder how jazz players pulled out these chords that didn't seem
    to be in the key, but still sounded like they fit?  I did and the above
    is how they do it.
    
    Hope this helps somebody.  I know it helps me to remember it by
    relaying the info.
    
    Mike

re .26:

A secondary dominant is the dominant of a chord related in the
key of the tonic. It is possible to have V of V, V of V of V, and
so on. The secondary dominant precedes the chord it's dominant
towards. If, for example, you were in E major, you could play a
C# major before going to an F# minor. So you have two forms of
the C# chord:

C# minor  VI
C# major  V of II

I'd be careful about the flat fifth substitution. I can see how
it works in the example you gave: I - IV - VII, by following the
descending tonic, but I can't say that it always works for me.
There's alot of heavy metal that uses this and I will say that
it's pretty effective in killing harmonic movement.

                                                        John.

    anyone know a movable pattern for diminished and augmented scales?
    
    Mike

    I haven't been following this note very closely, so this may be a
    repeat question...
    
    Does anyone know of a publication (or software package - preferably for
    C64) that lists chords, the notes in them, *INDEXED BY NOTE*?  What I'm
    looking for is some tool that will help me in my songwriting such that
    when I'm looking for a chord for a particular note, I can run to this
    tool and get the various possibilities.
    
    Of course, it would be possible to become too limited by such a tool,
    as the backing chord is not always associated with the melody line (or
    at least not directly).  And I understan that there's no substitute for
    know chord progressions and the theory behind them.
    
    Having made these disclaimers, does anyone know of such a tool?
    
    Dan
    

    >anyone know a movable pattern for diminished and augmented scales?
    
    Scales?
    
    I don't know any augmented scales, and I don't use diminished scales
    (just too f...in weird for their own good!), but here's some quick
    fixes that may get ya through:
    
    Whole Tone (moveable)		   Housholder Whole Tone
    ===========                            ===========
    o | o | | o                          1 o | | | | |
    | o | o o |                            | o | | | |
    o | o | | o                          2 o | o | | |
    | o | o o |                            | o | o | |
    o | o | | o                          4 o | o | | |
                                             o | o o |
                                               o | | o
                                                 o o |
                                                   | o
                                                   o |
    Dim. Arp.                                        o
    ===========              ===========
    | | | | | o              | | o | | |
    | | | | | |              o | | o | o
    | | | | o |      or      | o | | | |
    | | | o | o              | | o | o |
    | | | | | |              o | | o | o

    re -1. 
    Diminished scales can add a nice disonance to a solo. I wouldn't 
    play out of a diminished scale for entire solo, but when soloing over
    certain fast changes, it's a great tool for playing over "connecting"
    (often diminished) chords. Playing the dim. arpeggio mentioned in .-1
    over the Abo in the following creates some nice tension.
    
    G6  Abo  Am7  D7
    / / / /  / / / /
    
    You can spice that lick up a little by adding chromatic notes that 
    sort of lead-in...
    
    | | | o | o 
    | | |(o)| | 
    | | |(o)o | 
    | | | o | o 
    | | | | | | 
    
    Phil 

    What I've been working on lately.  Work thru it by columns, good for
    hearing the differences.  All are moveable.
    
    * = MINOR ROOT, ~ = MAJOR ROOT 
    
                         P E N T A T O N I C
    ===========  ===========  ===========  ===========  ===========
    | | | | | |  | | 1*1 | |  | | | | | |  | 1*1 1 | |  | | | 1 | |
    1*1 1 1 | 1  2~2 | | 1 1 *1 1 1 1 1 1 ~2 | | | 1 1  1 1~1 | 1 1
    | | | | 2 |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | 3 | |  | | | | | |
    | | 3 3 | | *4 4 4 4 3 3  | 3 3 3 | |  4 4 4 | 3 3  3*3 3 4 | 3
    4~4 | | 4 4  | | | | | | ~4 | | | 4 4  | | | | | |  | | | | 4 |
    
                               B L U E S
    ===========  ===========  ===========  ===========  ===========
    | | | | | |  | | 1*1 | |  | | | | | |  | 1*1 1 | |  | | | 1 | |
    1*1 1 1 | 1  1~1 | | 1 1 *1 1 1 1 1 1 ~1 | | 2 1 1  1 1~1 | 1 1
    | | 2 | 1 |  | | | | 2 |  | 2 | | | |  | | | 3 | |  2 | | | | 2
    | | 3 3 | | *3 3 4 4 3 3  | 3 3 3 | |  3 4 4 | 3 3  3*3 3 4 | 3
    4~4 | | 3 4  | 4 | | | | ~4 | | 4 4 4  4 | | | | 4  | | 4 | 4 |
    | | | | 4 |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |
    
                               M A J O R
    ===========  ===========  ===========  ===========  ===========
    | | | | | |  | 1 1*1 | |  | | | 1 | |  1 1*1 1 | 1  | | 1 1 | |
    1*1 1 1 1 1  2~2 2 | 1 1 *1 1 1 2 1 1 ~2 2 | | 2 2  1 1~2 2 1 1
    2 | | | 2 2  | | | 3 | |  | | | | 2 |  | | 3 3 | |  | | | | | |
    | 3 3 3 | | *4 4 4 4 3 3  3 3 3 4 | 3  4 4 4 4 4 4  3*3 4 4 3 3
    4~4 4 | 4 4  | | | | 4 | ~4 4 | | 4 4  | | | | | |  4 | | | 4 4

    These chords have a funky/new wave kind of feel to them. Can someone
    please name them for me? 
    
    Also alternate voicings or substitutions for these chords would be 
    welcome. 
    
    
    Chord 1 - Gmaj6 or Em? (Are these two related?)
    
    ----------- 12th fret
    | | o o o o 
    -----------
    | | | | | |
    ----------- 
    
    Chord2 - Gmaj7?
    
    ----------- 12th fret
    | | o o o | 
    -----------
    | | | | | |
    -----------
    | | | | | o
    -----------
    
    
    Chord 3: G? 
    
    ----------- 12th fret
    | | o o o |
    -----------
    | | | | | |
    -----------
    | | | | | |
    -----------
    | | | | | o
    -----------
    

    re .-1
    
    right on all 3 counts, Tom. G6 has the same notes in it as Em7, so the
    2 chords are really the same. There must be a lot of places in  this
    conference where you can find alternate voicings for these chords.
    FWIW, Bm7 is a nice substitute for Gmaj7. Lots of interesting
    substitutions depend on where the harmony is going, too.
    
    - Dave

Here's a couple more "mystery" chords

----------- 7th fret 
| | o | o |
-----------
| | | o | o
-----------
| | | | | |
-----------

The notes are A, Eb, F#, C, the C makes it Minor but I don't know what to
call it with the b5.


----------- 7th fret (A b5?)
| | o | o |
-----------
| | | o | |
-----------
| | | | | o
-----------

Here the notes are A, Eb, F#, C#

    The first chord is a diminished chord. If you look at its structure,
    you'll see it's just a bunch of minor 3rds one on top of the other. The
    odd thing about a diminished chord is that its harmonic function
    depends on where it gets used, as the chord you've shown is actually 4
    diminished chords: Ao, Ebo, F#o and Co. If you're on the ball, you'll
    notice that this means that each diminished chord repeats every 3 frets
    (in other words, move the shape up 3 frets and you're playing the same
    chord).
    
    To work out the second chord, you need to swap its notes around. If you
    spell it: D# F# A C# you've got a diminished triad (root, 3rd, b5th)
    with a flattened seventh on the top. This makes a half-diminished chord
    (also called a minor 7 flat 5). So in this case, it's D#m7b5. Note that
    this chord is diatonic to the E major scale (it's the 7 chord built off
    the seventh degree of that scale).
    
    HTH,
    
    Nick

    re .272
    
    the second chord is also a B9 chord. B9 and Db7-5 are equivalent (also
    F#m6).
    
    - Dave

    Isn't that first diminished chord a movable diminished form?  I'm
    pretty sure I've seen it somewhere under that classification.
    
    Mike

That first chord is a diminished 7, not just diminished.  

But they seem to function very similarly.

Will

    >  Isn't that first diminished chord a movable diminished form?
    
    As it turns out, ALL diminished 7th chords forms are "movable" as
    long as you move them them up or down a minor third.
    
    This is because every interval in the chord (and ALL inversions)
    is a minor third.
    
    This is the basis of a cliche: which is to take a diminshed 7th
    chord, play it, slide up 3 frets, play it, slide up 3 frets, etc. etc.
    
    This is also a good way to approach (resolve to) the major chord:
    
    	Cdim7 -> Ebdim7 -> Gbdim7 -> Adim7 -> C MAJOR

       Ok ...what am I playin' for chords...the harmonics are super and
  they ring either with an acoustic or an electric..I've used them for
  18 years without really knowing what I've been playin'.



   12 --> | | | | | |
          | | | 1 | |
          | 2 3 | | |

    
   12 --> | | | | | |
          | | | | | |
          | | | 1 | |
          | 2 | | | |
          | | 3 | | |


          | | | 1 | |
   12 --> | 2 3 | | |
          | | | | | |


         Or better yet ...what is an open E as you move it up the Frets?

                         R.B.

>   12 --> | | | | | |
>          | | | 1 | |    >  E
>          | 2 3 | | |
>
>    
>   12 --> | | | | | |
>          | | | | | |
>          | | | 1 | |
>          | 2 | | | |
>          | | 3 | | |
>
>
>          | | | 1 | |
>   12 --> | 2 3 | | |    >  D
>          | | | | | |
>

The three strings (an E chord) slid all the way up runs 
       F F# G G# A A# B C C# D D# E. 
At the 13th fret you're basically starting over. Was this the answer?!? 
This was a trick question, right?

    Assuming all strings are being played for all chords.
    
>   12 --> | | | | | |
>          | | | 1 | |   
>          | 2 3 | | |
    
    I also agree that this is an E.
    
>    
>   12 --> | | | | | |
>          | | | | | |
>          | | | 1 | |
>          | 2 | | | |
>          | | 3 | | |
           
           R b6 9 4 5 = E6add9, but I'm guessing.
>
>
>          | | | 1 | |
>   12 --> | 2 3 | | |   
>          | | | | | |
>
           R 4 b7 9 5 = E9

    C Major Triads (all movable to create other major triads).  Play the
    root first then strum the chord.  Play these from left to right, and up
    and down the neck.  When you get these down, go on to the exercises in
    my next reply.
    
    ===========   ===========   ===========   ===========
    | | | | | |   | | | | | |   | | | | | |   | | | | | |
    | | | | | |   | | | | | |   | | | | | |   | | | | | |
    | | | | | 5   | | | | | |   | | | | | |   | | | | | |
    | | | | | |   | | | | | |   | | | | | |   | | | | | |
    | | | R 3 |   | | 5 R 3 |   | | 5 R | |   | | 5 | | |
    | | | | | |   | | | | | |   | | | | | |   | | | | | |
    | | | | | |   | | | | | |   | 3 | | | |   | 3 | | | |
    | | | | 5 R   | | | | 5 |   | | | | | |   R | | | | |
    | | | 3 | |   | | | 3 | |   | | | 3 | |   | | | | | |
    | | | | | |   | | R | | |   | 5 R | | |   | 5 R | | |
    | | | | | |   | | | | | |   | | | | | |   | | | | | |
    | | | 5 | 3   | | | 5 | |   | | | 5 | |   3 | | | | |
    | | | | R |   | | | | R |   | | | | | |   | | | | | |
    | | | | | |   | | 3 | | |   | | 3 | | |   | | 3 | | |
    | | | | | |   | | | | | |   | R | | | |   5 R | | | |

    Here are some I IV V (key of C) triad progressions to practice on:
    
      C  F  G  C  F  G  C  F   G   C
    E-0--1--3--3--5--7--8--8---10--12---
    B-1--1--3--5--6--8--8--10--12--13---
    G-0--2--4--5--5--7--9--10--12--12---
    D-----------------------------------
    A-----------------------------------
    E-----------------------------------
    
      C  F  G  C  F  G  C   F   G   C
    E-----------------------------------
    B-1--1--3--5--6--8--8---10--12--13--
    G-0--2--4--5--5--7--9---10--12--12--
    D-2--3--5--5--7--9--10--10--12--14--
    A-----------------------------------
    E-----------------------------------
    
      C  F  G  C  F  G   C   F   G   C
    E-----------------------------------
    B-----------------------------------
    G-0--2--4--5--5--7---9---10--12--12-
    D-2--3--5--5--7--9---10--10--12--14-
    A-3--3--5--7--8--10--10--12--14--15-
    E-----------------------------------
    
      C  F  G  C  F  G   C   F   G   C
    E-----------------------------------
    B-----------------------------------
    G-----------------------------------
    D-2--3--5--5--7--9---10--10--12--14-
    A-3--3--5--7--8--10--10--12--14--15-
    E-3--5--7--8--8--10--12--13--15--15-
    
    Here is a VI II III triad progression:
    
      A  D  E  A  D  E  A   D   E   A
    E-----------------------------------
    B-1--3--5--5--6--8--10--10--12--13--
    G-2--2--4--5--7--9--9---10--12--14--
    D-2--3--5--7--7--9--10--12--14--14--
    A-----------------------------------
    E-----------------------------------

    A lot of people have asked for more triad stuff so here goes.  There
    are a lot of things we can do using the progressions I've put in here 
    (last few replies).  One is to start substituting them into your songs
    (i.e., start using them ;-)).  Try these groupings below for I IV V
    stuff.
    
          G  C  F      G  C  F      G   C  F
    E-----3--3--5--   -7--8--8--  -10--12--13-
    B-----3--5--6--   -8--8--10-  -12--13--13
    G-----4--5--5--   -9--9--10-  -12--12--14
    
    Another is, if you think 3 string chords are too thin, we can alter 
    them in thousands of ways.  
    
          G  C  F  
    E--------------
    B-----3--5--6--
    G-----4--5--5--
    D-----5--5--7--
    A-----5--7--8--
    E--------------
    
    BTW - Try this in all keys too.
    
    Another thing is to start building your own chords for substitutions. 
    See note 470.34 (SHOW KEY/FULL CHORDS) on how to construct the chords.
    
    Here is an example that I love the sound of.  We take the F on the
    left, add our pinky to the D string for the bass note (and new root) to
    make a Bb chord.
    
      F                Bb
    E-5--            E-5--
    B-6--            B-6--
    G-5--            G-5--
                     D----8
    
    Or try substituting your D chord with this D11:
    
      D11
    E----
    B-5--
    G-5--
    D-5--
    A-5--
    E----
    
    Mike

    Here are some funky triads for you R&B lovers.  This was written by a
    GIT graduate (they're big on triads).  Play this all the way thru.
    Numbers in parentheses are fingerings (i.e., 2 = middle finger).
    | = a measure, s = slide, h = hammer, s/ = slide finger up, s\ = slide
    finger down
    
                         |                       |
    E--------3---------------------------8--5--4--
    B--3--5--3--3--5(3)----8---5--6--8---8--6--5--
    G--4--5--4--4--5(3)----9---5--7--9---9--5--4--
    D--5--------5--5(3)----10--5--7--10-----5--4--
    A--3--------3--------------5------------------
    E--------------5(2)---------------------------
    
                     |                            |
    E--3--5--3------------------------------13--12-
    B--3-----3--3-------8--7--6--8--10--12--13--12-
    G--4-----4--4--5----7--6--5--7--10--12--14--12-
    D-----------5--5----9--8--7--9--10--12---------
    A--------------7-------------------------------
    E----------------------------------------------
    
                               |                                  |
    E-------------------------------------------------------------
    B------12-h-13------12--10-------------------------------8--5-
    G--12--12-------12--12--10-----------10---------7--5--5--5--5-
    D--14--14-------14------10-----------10---------9--7--5--5--5-
    A--15-----------15-----------10-s-12-----7-h-10----8--7-------
    E-----------------------------------------------------------5-
    
                              |                   |
    E-----------------------3---------------------
    B--8---5--6--1----3--5--3---8--------3--5-----
    G--9---5--7--2-s/-4--5------7-s\-----4--5-----
    D--10--5--7--3--------------9--------5--5-----
    A---------------------------------0--------0--
    E---------------------------------------------
    
    E--------------------------------------------------------
    B--3--5----3--5----3--5----0--1(2)---0--1---0--1----1--0-
    G--4--5----4--5----4--5----0--2(3)---0--2---0--2----2--0-
    D--5--5----5--5----5--5----0--3(4)---0--3---0--3----3--0-
    A--------0-------0---------------------------------------
    E------------------------1---------1------1------1--3--3-

    Taking the C Major triads from .281, we can overlay forms to create new
    chords too.  For this, we'll take the first set of C triads.  
    
    ===========   ===========   ===========   ===========
    | | | | | |   | | | | | |   | | | | | |   | | | | | |
    | | | | | |   | | | | | |   | | | | | |   | | | | | |
    | | | | | 5   | | | | | |   | | | | | |   | | | | | |
    | | | | | |   | | | | | |   | | | | | |   | | | | | |
    | | | R 3 |   | | 5 R 3 |   | | 5 R | |   | | 5 | | |
                                | | | | | |   | | | | | |
                                | 3 | | | |   | 3 | | | |
                                              R | | | | |
    
    For the first 2 forms on the left, they both have the R and 3 as common
    notes.  If we overlay them, we'll get this chord that should fatten the
    sound up.
    
    E--3
    B--5
    G--5
    D--5
    
    Try this on all the forms, overlay them to create new, richer sounding
    chords.
    
    Mike

    There have been some unusual/interesting postings on Usenet lately. 
    Here are some of them:
    
Article 4440 of rec.music.makers:
From: quayster@cynic.wimsey.bc.ca (Tony Chung)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers,rec.music.synth
Subject: Chord Families and Associate Scales
Date: 5 Apr 91 11:25:28 GMT

A long time ago Dave Jones forcefully pecked:
 
 >But let's go back to the Eb Lydian-dominant that Tony is recommending.
 >If we play it off of the root A, rather than Eb, what have we got?
 >It's our new old friend, the super-locrian or "altered" scale, which
 >as we have seen fits nicely with any A7alt chord. Thus we see that
 >the indicated scale for Eb7+11 is a *mode* of the indicated scale
 
Well, of course it makes sense, because both are modes of the 
melodic minor.  However, making sense and actually "making sense" 
aren't the same, are they?  :-)
 
 >for A7alt! How about that?! I had never noticed this connection
 >between tritone subs and altered dominants. Learn something every
 >day.
 
It escaped me that the Eb lydian-b7 was an A altered dominant!  Is 
it really called a "ravel" scale?  Bizarre!  (What's even more 
bizarre is that the local radio station is playing The Flying 
Lizard's version of "Money" -- after 12 years, is there a 
resurgence?)  Oh, BTW, Vancouver Canucks WON against the L.A. 
Kings.  That's bizarre, too.  (or TOO BIZARRE)
 
 >> This scale ties into the fact that TT subs belong to the chord
 >> family that Dick Grove calls "Family #6".
 >
 >Tony, please elaborate. I am note familiar with this theory.
 
You should get the Grove series, "Modern Harmonic Relationships".  
I've posted it to every newsgroup I know related to music.  It's a 
good way to standardize the classification of chords.
 
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
 
Basically, the thinking is this:
 
Every chord fits into a distinct category that represents its own 
specific function in the context of a song.  There are nine in all, 
each of them referring to a different function.
 
#1 is called "I major".  Every chord that functions as a I in major 
fits here.  So, C, Cma7, C6, C6/9, and C6/9ma7 all belong to this 
family.  The main rule is that if you add an 11th, it must be 
raised a half-step.  So, you'll have additional chords like 
Cma9(#11), Cma7(b5), etc.  Gears are spinning in Dave's mind as you 
read this, but I'll point out anyway that once you add the #11 it 
zooms the chord into the key a 4th below.  So, these C chords will 
actually be IV chords in Gmajor, but they function as a I.  There's 
another chord in this family, the Cma7(#5) chord.  It's III in 
minor, but functions as a I.  I think the only time you see this 
chord is in line progressions that go   C  C(#5) C6 C(#5)  (Lucky 
Southern [Keith Jarrett], I think used this ... in D)
 
        Scale sources for #1 in C:
              C Ionian, C lydian (for the #11 chords)
              A melodic minor (for I(#5) chords)
              A harmonic minor (for the I(#5,b5) chords)
 
#2 is the "II minor".  You remember those II-V progressions in 
"Satin Doll" and a host of others?  This family houses most of 
those II chords.  Includes everything up to the minor 13th.  (minor 
7 chord, maj 9, perf. 11, maj 13).  They say to avoid the 13th 
unless it's a melody note.  In C, D F A C E G (B)
 
        Scale sources for #2 in C (Dmi7):
              D dorian  (for "funky" style, Grove recommends
                         the D and A blues scales)
 
#3 is the "V13" family.  Very boring chord family, as it's diatonic 
to a major key.  The rule is that in a stack you avoid having both the 
3rd and the 11th.  Means you leave out the 11th or the 3rd at any 
given time.  This is because of the minor 9th interval that occurs 
between them.  (Ah... so that's where SUS chords come from; chord 
family #3!!)
 
        Scale sources for #3 in C (G7):
              G mixolydian, and that funky G blues scale  :-)
 
#4 is the "I in minor".  Yuk.  The minor (major 13th) chord is
nowhere near the top of my list of favourites.  Still, we cannot
escape the fact it exists in this world.  Every chord that functions
as a I in minor (eg. Cmi, Cmi(add 9), Cmi6, and CmiMa7). All
thirds-stacking is diatonic, and there are no alterations.
 
        Scale sources for #4 in Cminor [Cmi7(ma7)]:
              C melodic minor, C harmonic minor
              (also, depending on the chord, you can use the
              C natural minor, C dorian, and Bb ionian)
 
#5 is the "II in minor".  You can extend upon the basic minor7(b5)
chord by adding the natural 9, 11 and b13.  You'll notice the b13 is
the same note as a #5 chord.  This family gives a logical explanation
for the existence of the mi7(#5,b5) chord (Not that you'd ever use
it, but... :-)  ).
 
        Scale sources for #5 in Cminor [Dmi7(b5)]:
              D locrian, D locrian #2 (aeloian b5)
              if you omit the 9th of the chord (as Grove
              recommends), you can use the C harmonic minor
 
#6 is the chord family encompassing tritone subs.  It is the dominant
13 (#11) chord that functions as a IV.  It is often used as a
chromatic dominant approach chord (approach a chord from a semitone
above or below), or a dominant setup (IV sets up V, no matter how you
slice it).
 
        Scale sources for #6 in Cminor [F13(#11)]:
              F lydian b7, F whole tone, funky F blues :-)
              
#7 is the first altered-dominant chord family.  There are really two
different chord stacks for this family.  The first is the V13(b9,#9)
stack, and the second is the V13(b9,#9,#11) stack.  The stack with
the #11 in it is more common.  What sets these chords apart from #6
is the altered ninth.
 
        Scale source for #7 in Cminor [G13(b9,#9,#11)]:
              G dominant 8-note scale.
        Scale source for the stack with the natural 11th:
              G Blues, F melodic minor (does this mode have a name?)
              
#8 is the second of the altered-dominants.  This stack includes the
#5 (b13) in it, as well as the doubly-altered 9th and 11th.
 
        Scale sources for #8 in Cminor [G+7(b9,#9,#11)]
              G whole tone, G phrygian, G altered dominant,
              G spanish phrygian, C melodic minor, C blues
 
#9 is the family that groups all diminished chords, or that which
exists as a VII in minor, yet functions as a V without a root.
(Classical theorists know this as the "incomplete dominant minor
9th."  You don't add "extensions" to the 4-part diminished 7th stack,
because stacking thirds only repeats notes.  However, you can add
notes to the stack:  The ma9, P11, b13 and/or ma7.  Note that this
chord comes from VII in the harmonic minor, which is raised a
semitone.  Adding the ma7 gives you the bVII.  Example, in Cminor, #9
stack is B dim7 (add C#, E, G, Bb).  From a practical standpoint,
adding notes to a diminished 7th chord doesn't help much.
 
        Scale source for #9 in Cminor (see above):
              B diminished 8-note scale
 
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
 
The reason Grove groups chords together in categories is to show
that you can think through altered chords easily if you use
polychords.  I have by no means throroughly digested the information
within Modern Harmonic Relationships, book 2.  Every time I flip
through its pages, I see something new, or understand something else
that wasn't clear before.  I've got a Jazz Theory final to prepare
for next week, and this summary will help me remember what chords
belong to what family.
 
If I left anything out, or if anybody else has any additions I can
make, (names of the modes of the minor scales would be nice  :-]  ),
please E-mail me.  If anybody has any really difficult questions,
ask David Jones (only kidding, Dave!  Put down that Jerusalem disk!)
 
Thanks for giving me a way to study for my final, and answer your
question at the same time.  TNWT
 
-Tony Chung
 
If Modern Harmonic Relationships ain't at your music store, write to:
                Alfred Publishing Co., Inc.
                15335 Morrison Street
                Post Office Box 5964
                Sherman Oaks, California, U.S.A.
                91413
and order it.  Then tell them to send me a "recommender's fee"  :-)


-- 
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
        "If you drive, don't drink."                    -- Tony Chung
        quayster@cynic.wimsey.bc.ca      quayster@arkham.wimsey.bc.ca

Article 4523 of rec.music.makers:
From: djones@megatest.UUCP (Dave Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers,rec.music.synth,rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Minor mode names (Re: Chord Families and Associate Scales)
Date: 5 Apr 91 17:46:33 GMT

From article <1991Apr5.112528.13559@cynic.wimsey.bc.ca>, by quayster@cynic.wimsey.bc.ca (Tony Chung):

> If I left anything out, or if anybody else has any additions I can
> make, (names of the modes of the minor scales would be nice  :-]  ),


Here are the names that jazz people generally use for the modes of
the melodic minor scale:

I   Melodic minor
II  Dorian flat two
III Lydian augmented
IV  Lydian dominant
V   Hindu
VI  Locrian sharp two
VII Super Locrian (a.k.a. altered, altered dominant,
	Pomeroy, Ravel, diminished whole-tone)


I don't think the harmonic minor modes have any common names. Perhaps we
should start a name-the-scales contest!

Article 4522 of rec.music.makers:
From: djones@megatest.UUCP (Dave Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers,rec.music.synth,rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: Chord Families and Associate Scales
Date: 5 Apr 91 18:46:56 GMT


From article <1991Apr5.112528.13559@cynic.wimsey.bc.ca), by quayster@cynic.wimsey.bc.ca (Tony Chung):
) Me sez:
)  )) This scale ties into the fact that TT subs belong to the chord
)  )) family that Dick Grove calls "Family #6".
)  )
)  )Tony, please elaborate. I am note familiar with this theory.
)  
) You should get the Grove series, "Modern Harmonic Relationships".  
) I've posted it to every newsgroup I know related to music.  It's a 
) good way to standardize the classification of chords.

Well, none of those chords is new to me. I guess I would have to
read his book to figure out why he grouped them together the way he
did. It would never have occured to me to put a major chord and a
major chord with a sharp five in the same group. I mean, what's the
point of it? I know, "Read the book." Anyway ....

) ...
) #7 is the first altered-dominant chord family.  There are really two
) different chord stacks for this family.  The first is the V13(b9,#9)
) stack, and the second is the V13(b9,#9,#11) stack.

You should know that in jazz parlance, "altered" always implies a
raised or lowered fifth. An "altered chord" means any chord in which
the fifth is lowered or raised, and the ninth does not occur unless
it is raised or lowered also. Maybe we could call category #7 the "modified
dominant" chord family?

) The stack with
) the #11 in it is more common.  What sets these chords apart from #6
) is the altered ninth.
)  
)         Scale source for #7 in Cminor [G13(b9,#9,#11)]:
)               G dominant 8-note scale.
)         Scale source for the stack with the natural 11th:
)               G Blues, F melodic minor (does this mode have a name?)

Yeah. Jazz guys call it the "Hindu" scale.

    re: last few
    
    boy, I thought I was bad with the theory! These guys must be big-time
    geeks!
    
    - Dave

    -1
    
    agreed!

	I'm glad that Mike yanked that stuff in. More stuff to stoke
	the old subconscious. I find that if I can't name it I can't
	play it.... again.

    Now let's modify the C Major triads from .281 to create more
    interesting chords.  Since these are only 3 string triads, I highly
    recommend a nice chorus effect.  Makes them sound much thicker.  Some
    are really great when appregiated (is that a word? :-)) over the I IV V
    type rhythm progressions.
    
    In parentheses below are the scale degrees you can add to create those
    chords (i.e., 6 for 6th chords, 7 for 7th chords, etc.). 
    
    ===========   ===========   ===========
    | | | | |(11) | | | | | |   | | | | | |
    | | | | | |   | | | | | |   | | | | | |
    | | | |(9)5   | | | | | |   | | | | | |
    | | |(7)| |   | | | | | |   | | | | | |
    | | | R 3(6)  | | | | | |   | | | | | |
    | | | |(4)|   | | | | | |   | | | | | |  
                  | | |(9)|(7)  | | | | | |  
                  | | | | 5 R   | | | | | |  
                  | | | 3 | |   | | | | | |  
                  | | (4)(6)(9) | | | | | |  
                                | | | | | |  
                                | | | 5(7)3  
                                | | | | R(4)  
                                | | |(6)| |  
                                | | | |(9)|  
                                             
    Some of these are a real stretch, but it will strengthen your hands. 
    Let's take the left column for some examples:
                   
                   raise 3rd    11th chord,    lower Root
                   to 4th for   a real         for Cmaj7
                   Csus         stretch
    ===========   ===========   ===========    ===========
    | | | | |(11) | | | | | |   | | | | | 11   | | | | | |
    | | | | | |   | | | | | |   | | | | | |    | | | | | |
    | | | |(9)5   | | | | | 5   | | | | 9 |    | | | | | 5
    | | |(7)| |   | | | | | |   | | | | | |    | | | 7 | |
    | | | R 3(6)  | | | R | |   | | | R | |    | | | | 3 |
    | | | |(4)|   | | | | 4 |   | | | | | |  
    
    One last thing: some of you may have noticed by now that if you omit
    the barre on your E and A form barre chords, you have your triads (but
    just play those fretted strings).
    
    Mike

    After doing triads for a couple months now, Guitar Player's May issue
    has come out with some timely material.  The natural progression from
    here would be to start soloing over triads and they show some great
    examples of that in the "Road to Electric Ladyland" article on Hendrix.
    On pages 74-75, try playing examples 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, and 7.  If you
    don't have access to this magazine, I'll try enter them later.  
    
    These examples are in the key of A.  Try laying down a I V IV
    progression on tape and play these examples over it.  I found that
    example 3 sounds better if you throw in the hammers and pulls.  I also
    thought that, if you use your clean channel w/chorus and the
    progression on tape for rhythm, some of the examples sound a lot like
    something Eric Johnson would do.  Especially the examples with double
    stops (6 & 7).  Reminded me of the outro section for "Victory" off the
    "Tones" album.
    
    I will post an exercise using 2 string triad riffs with hammers and
    pulls in the next reply.  It might be a good warm up exercise to the
    Hendrix/Johnson type riffs in Guitar Player.
    
    Mike

    Okay here is the triad warm up exercise I promised.  The barre chord
    progression is also supplied for you to play over.  
    h = hammer, p = pull
    
       A (I)
    E--5--5h7p5--5----------------------------------
    B--5--5------5h7p5--5h7p5--5--------------------
    G--6----------------6------6h7p6--6h7p6--6------
    D--7------------------------------7------7h9p7--
    A--7--------------------------------------------
    E--9--------------------------------------------
    
                                     D (IV)
    E--------------------------------5--5h7p5--5-------------
    B--------------------------------7--7------7h8p7--7h8p7--
    G--------------------------------7----------------7------
    D--7h9p7--7----------------------7-----------------------
    A--7------7h9p7--7h9p7--7--------9-----------------------
    E----------------9------9h10p9--10-----------------------
    
    E--------------------------------------------------------
    B--7-----------------------------------------------------
    G--7h9p7--7h9p7--7---------------------------------------
    D---------7------7h9p7--7h9p7--7-------------------------
    A-----------------------9------9h10p9---9h10p9---9-------
    E--------------------------------------10-------10h12p10-
    
       E (V)
    E--4--4h5p4--4-----------------------------------------------
    B--5--5------5h7p5--5h7p5--5---------------------------------
    G--4----------------4------4h6p4--4h6p4--4-------------------
    D--6------------------------------6------6h7p6--6h7p6--6-----
    A--7--------------------------------------------7------7h9p7-
    E--7---------------------------------------------------------
    
    E------------------
    B------------------
    G------------------
    D------------------
    A--7h9p7--7--------
    E--7------7h9p7----

    Here are the Hendrix triad riffs from Guitar Player (chord diagrams 
    are for rhythm).  We're in the Key of A here.
    
    ===========
    1 1 1 1 1 1  5th fret
    | | | 2 | |
    | 3 4 | | |
    
    E--5h7p5--------------------------
    B--5------5h7p5-------------------
    G--6------6------6h7p6------------   Example 1
    D---------7------7------7h9p7--7--
    A----------------7------7------7--
    E-----------------------9------5--

      X       X
    ===========
    | | | 1 | |  4th fret
    T | | | 2 |             T  = thumb in true Jimi fashion
    | | | 3*| |             3* = raise and lower your third finger here
    | | 4 | | |                  to add B (9th of A).
    
    E--5----------------------------------------
    B--5h7p5----5-------------------------------
    G--------6--4h6p4-----4---------------------  Example 2
    D------------------7--4h7p4---4-------------
    A---------------------------7-4h7p4----5s7--  s = slide
    E-----------------------------------7--3s5--

      X       X
    ===========
    | | 1 1 1 |  2nd fret
    | | | | | |
    | | | | | |
    4 | | | | |
                                      
    E--2--2-------------------------------   
    B--5--2--2--2-------------------------   Example 3
    G--------4--2--2--2--------2------2---
    D--------------4--2--2--2--2------4---   This is how it is in the mag.
    A--------------------4--2--2h4----4---   It sounds better when adding
    E--------------------------5------0h2-   hammers & pulls.
                                      ^end on this chord 2nd time thru
    
    X       
    ===========
    | | | 1 1 1  9th fret
    | | | | 2 |
    | | 3 | | |
    | 4 | | | |
    
    E---9h12p9-----------------------------------------------
    B--10------10----10h12p10----------10----10----10-----10-  Example 5
    G--11---------11--9-------9----9----9-11-13-11--9------7-
    D-----------------9---------9--9-11---------------11---9-
    A-----------------------------------------------------10-
    E--------------------------------------------------------

    Here are the double stop riffs that reminded me of some of Eric
    Johnson's work.  s = slide
    
    Example 6
    E--5s7s5---------------------------
    B--5s7s5--5s7s5--------------------
    G---------4s6s4--2s4s2-------------
    D----------------2s4s2--2s4s2------
    A-----------------------2s4s2------
    E------------------------------2s5-

    Example 7
    E--12s14s12----------------------------
    B--12s14s12--10s12s10------------------
    G-------------9s11s9--9s11s9-----------
    D---------------------9s11s9--7s9--9s7-
    A-----------------------------7s9--9s7-
    E--------------------------------------

    The Police use a lot of triads too (Andy Summers).  If you like their
    stuff, get a hold of some of their transcriptions.
    
    Mike

>    The Police use a lot of triads too
    
    Yeah, a cop laid a couple of triads on me last time I was pulled
    over...
    
>    If you like their
>    stuff, get a hold of some of their transcriptions.
    
    I try to avoid them when I can.
    
    Greg

The Houseman urged me to post this so here 'tis...

I wrote this lick for a warm up exercise on sweep picking.  It's also great for
working on alternate picking.  It is real hard to alternate pick at first, but
if you keep working on it it gets easier.  In either case, I think it is
important to keep all the notes sounding even.  The side effect is that you also
get to learn a bunch of sweep arpeggio shapes...

This lick dances around all the arpeggios for the Cmaj scale; I've noted the
chords above the tab.

Enjoy,
steve

   C              Bdim              C              Am
E -------------12-13-------------13-12------------|---------------12-17-12------
B ----------13-------15-------15-------13---------|------------13---------------
G -------12-------------16-13-------------12------|---------14------------------
D ----14-------------------------------------14---|------14---------------------
A -15-------------------------------------------15|12-15------------------------
E ------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------

                  C              G                                F   
E ------------------------|---12-10----------------------------10-13-------|----
B -13---------------------|13-------12----------------------12-------13----|----
G ----14----------------12|------------12----------------12-------------14-|----
D -------14----------14---|---------------12----------12-------------------|----
A ----------15-12-15------|------------------14-10-14----------------------|----
E ------------------------|------------------------------------------------|----

               C              Em                C              Dm
E -------------------------12-15-12---------------|---------12-10---------------
B ----------------------13----------12------------|------13-------10------------
G -------------------12----------------12---------|---12-------------10---------
D -15-------------14----------------------14------|14-------------------12------
A ----15----12-15----------------------------14-15|-----------------------------
E -------13---------------------------------------|-----------------------------

      C              Dm             C              Dm             (C)
E ----------------12-10---|---------------------12-10----------------------|----
B -------------13-------10|------------------13-------10-------------------|----
G ----------12------------|10-------------12-------------10----------------|----
D -------14---------------|---12-------14-------------------12-------------|----
A -12-15------------------|------12-15-------------------------12-(15)-----|----
E ------------------------|------------------------------------------------|----

    For the ultimate in alternate and cross picking exercises try
    the melody of a few bluegrass tunes. Bluegrass kinda' grows
    on ya' too, and gives you a deep appreciation for the folks 
    that can play super fast/clean....and yes with feeling too.
    
    chuck

    Since we're on the subject, how about sweep picking triads? ;-)
    
    Here are some exercises for you to try out (key of C).  Remember to
    watch those up and down strokes minimize pick hand motion.  Also, don't
    fret chords, that's cheating ;-)  One finger at a time.
    
               Am riffs
                 
    E-----12-17-17-12---------8-12-12-8-------5-8-8-5----
    B---13-----------13-----10---------10----5-------5---
    G-14---------------14--9-------------9--5---------5--
    D----------------------------------------------------
    A----------------------------------------------------
    E----------------------------------------------------
    
               Dm riffs
    
    E-----13-17-17-13----------10-13-13-10--------5-10-10-5---
    B---15-----------15------10-----------10-----6---------6--
    G-14---------------14--10---------------10--7-----------7-
    D---------------------------------------------------------
    A---------------------------------------------------------
    E---------------------------------------------------------
    
               Em riffs
    
    E-----12-15-15-12--------7-12-12-7------3-7-7-3----
    B---12-----------12-----8---------8----5-------5---
    G-12---------------12--9-----------9--4---------4--
    D--------------------------------------------------
    A--------------------------------------------------
    E--------------------------------------------------
    
               C riffs
    
    E-----12-15-15-12--------8-12-12-8------3-8-8-3----
    B---13-----------13-----8---------8----5-------5---
    G-12---------------12--9-----------9--5---------5--
    D--------------------------------------------------
    A--------------------------------------------------
    E--------------------------------------------------
    
               F riffs
    
    E-----13-17-17-13----------8-13-13-8--------5-8-8-5----
    B---13-----------13------10---------10-----6-------6---
    G-14---------------14--10-------------10--5---------5--
    D------------------------------------------------------
    A------------------------------------------------------
    E------------------------------------------------------
    
               G riffs
    
    E-----10-15-15-10--------7-10-10-7------3-7-7-3----
    B---12-----------12-----8---------8----3-------3---
    G-12---------------12--7-----------7--4---------4--
    D--------------------------------------------------
    A--------------------------------------------------
    E--------------------------------------------------

    This rocker has been breaking (for him) some new ground lately in R&B
    and Classical.  The R&B stuff has been getting most of the attention
    lately.  Here are some things I've been working on:
    
    E7 Chord                            E9 "James Brown" Chord
    
    E--------                           E---7----  3        
    B---5----                           B---7----  3
    G---7----                           G---7----  3
    D---6----                           D---6----  1
    A---7----                           A---7----  2
    E---x----                           E---x----
    
    The E7 is just a C7 shape rooted on the E at the 7th fret.  The James 
    Brown chord has an awkward fingering (number at the right), but you get 
    used to it.  
    
    The fun part is the pick scratching to get that funky sound.  Place
    your fingers over the strings to form the chord, but don't fret the
    chord (essentially a mute).  Using 16th notes, create a pattern of up 
    and down strokes.  Here it is all up to the left hand, keep the right
    hand going at all times.  Try putting the accent on the different notes
    too.  For example, try fretting the chord on the down stroke for every 
    first beat, then release (keep the right hand going).  Then try every 
    first and third beat, second and fourth, etc.  Then start introducing the 
    chord on an up stroke.  The more up strokes, the funkier the sound.  
    
    Now for some single note work using the chords above.  Both patterns
    will sound better when you incorporate some muting on the single notes.
    
    Rhythm #1
    E----------------------------|--------------------------
    B---------5------------------|-------5------------------
    G---------7------------------|-------7------------------
    D---------6------------------|-------6------------------
    A---------7--7---------5--6--|-------7--7----------5--6-
    E---0--0-------7--7--7-------|-0--0-------7--7--7-------
    
    Rhythm #2
    E--------------------------------
    B----5----5--5-------------------
    G----7----7--7-------------------
    D----6----6--6-------------------  repeat
    A----7----7--7------5-----5-h-7--
    E-0-------------s7-----7---------
    
    Rhythm #3
    E----7----7--7-------------------
    B----7----7--7-------------------
    G----7----7--7-------------------
    D----6----6--6-------------------  repeat
    A----7----7--7------5-----5-h-7--
    E-0-------------s7-----7---------
    
    You can also break out one of the many blues scale patterns in here and
    start creating your own rhythm fills.
    
    Mike

    Since when did James Brown become attached to a standard ole 9th chord? 
    Just about everyone uses them...
    

>    Since when did James Brown become attached to a standard ole 9th chord? 
>    Just about everyone uses them...

    Ever since "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag" and "Cold Sweat", dude. I don't
    think I EVER play a standard 9th voicing without thinking about the
    "Godfather of Soul". Until James Brown came along, that chord was
    practically unheard on the pop charts. His material uses it a LOT. For
    me it almost a James Brown trademark. Of course, before he popularized
    its use in "funk", blues guys were using it, albiet sparingly.

    --rjb

    yeah Greg, get with it will ya!

    I usually thought of it in a blues or jazz context...
    
    gh

    WTF is Jamez sayin???

    
    
    
    	Heiser unit, thanks for entering this stuff Mike... really helpful. 
    I usually print this stuff out and it saves me buying guitar books
    (that I can't understand anyway).  In a blues song that my singing
    friend does with me I sharp and flat that ninth during the turn around
    for a jazzy, bluesy kind of feel.. what do you think??  
    
    E7 Chord                            E9 "Gree Vee King" Chord
    
    E--------                           E---x----          
    B---5----                           B---7----8----6  
    G---7----                           G---7----  
    D---6----                           D---6----  
    A---7----                           A---7----  
    E---x----                           E---x----
    
    
    	Makes me feel ummmmm.... provoked!  [;^)
    
    Gree Vee

    E7 Chord                            E-9 "Buck E Lee" Chord
    
    E--------                           E---x----          
    B---5----                           B---7----  
    G---7----                           G---7----  
    D---6----                           D---5----  
    A---7----                           A---7----  
    E---x----                           E---x----
    
    
    Makes me feel ummmmm.... who knows!  ;^)
    

    
    
    
    	Hey Buck I lead up to that sharp flat thang with this chord.. what
    the heck is it??  Abm7b5???
    
    
    e  x
    b  3
    g  4
    d  4
    a  x
    e  4
    
    
    	Duh, I feel so stooopid!

    >Hey Buck I lead up to that sharp flat thang with this chord.. what
    >the heck is it??  Abm7b5???
     
    >e  x
    >b  3
    >g  4
    >d  4
    >a  x
    >e  4
    
    You got it!!!
    

    Yo, tone-dudes, give credit where credit is due: Those're James Nolan
    chords.  8=:)

>    Yo, tone-dudes, give credit where credit is due: Those're James Nolan
>    chords.  8=:)

    I was gonna ask if anyone knew. 

    
    
    
    	Who in the hell is James Nolan? 
    

    It's "Nolen" and he was guitarist for James Brown for many years (he
    passed a way a couple of years back).  He was one of the originators
    of that scratchy soul/funk ryhthm guitar style.
    
    I loved to see his guitar in pictures, it was a Jap Strat copy that
    had a headstock label that read "Fresher Straighter".
    
    						Brian

    
    
    
    	Oh man, this guy was the "Godfather of Soul's" lead boy!!  I can
    see why you talk him up
    

Some real interesting results can be obtained by applying the modes to the
Pentatonic scale.  The minor versions (Dorian, Phrygian, Aeolian) don't
change much, if at all.  My favorite is the Mixolydian mode!  

6th string roots*

Ionian          Dorian        Phrygian      Lydian      Mixolydian
===========    ===========   ===========  ===========  ===========
* 1 | | 1 *    * 1 1 1 1 *   * 1 1 1 1 *  * | | | 1 *  * 1 1 | 1 *
| | 2 2 | |    | | | | | |   | | | | | |  | 1 1 1 | |  | | | 2 | |
| 3 * 3 | |    | 3 * 3 | |   | 3 * 3 | |  | 2 * | | |  | 3 * 3 | |
| | | | | |    4 | | | 4 4   4 | | | 4 4  | | | 3 | |  | | | | 4 |
4 | | | 4 4    | | | | | |   | | | | | |  4 | | | 4 4  4 | | | | 4

Aeolian          Locrian       
===========    ===========   
* 1 1 1 1 *    | | | | 1 |   
| | | | | |    * 1 1 1 | 1   
| 3 * 3 3 |    | 2 | | | |   
4 | | | | 4    | | * 3 | |   
| | | | | |    4 | | | 4 4


4h string roots*

Ionian          Dorian        Phrygian      Lydian      Mixolydian
===========    ===========   ===========  ===========  ===========
| 1 * 1 | |    | 1 * 1 | |   | 1 * 1 | |  | 1 * | | |  | 1 * 1 | |
| | | | | |    2 | | | 1 1   2 | | | 1 1  | | | 1 | |  | | | | 2 |
3 | | 3 3 3    | | | 3 | |   | | | 3 | |  2 | | 2 2 2  3 | | 3 | 3
4 | | | * 4    4 4 4 | * 3   4 4 4 | * 3  | | | | * |  4 4 | | * 4
| 4 4 | | |    | | | | | |   | | | | | |  4 4 4 | | 4  | | 4 | | |

Aeolian          Locrian       
===========    ===========   
| 1 * 1 | |    | 1 | | | |   
2 | | | 1 1    | | * 1 | |   
| | | 3 | |    2 | | 2 2 2   
4 4 4 | * 3    | | | | | |   
| | | | | |    4 4 4 | * 4


5h string roots*

Ionian          Dorian        Phrygian      Lydian      Mixolydian
===========    ===========   ===========  ===========  ===========
| | | 1 | |    | | | 1 | |   | | | 1 | |  | | | 1 | |  | | | 1 | |
1 | | | * 1    1 1 1 | * 1   1 1 1 | * 1  | | | | * |  1 1 | | * 1
| 2 2 | | |    | | | | | |   | | | | | |  2 2 2 | | 1  | | 2 | | |
3 * 3 | | 3    3 * 3 4 | 3   3 * 3 4 | 3  3 * | | | 2  3 * 3 4 | 3
| | | 4 | |    | | | | 4 |   | | | | 4 |  | | 4 4 | |  | | | | | |
        4                                         4            4

Aeolian          Locrian       
===========    ===========   
| | | 1 | |    | | | 1 | |   
1 1 1 | * 1    | | | | | |   
| | | | | |    2 2 2 | * 1   
3 * 3 4 | 3    3 | | | | 2   
| | | | 4 |    | * 4 4 | |
                       4

    Need help or confirmation in some new practices I just started working
    on. (Boy do I regret neglecting theory in the past). I have practiced 
    chord scales using just major, minor and diminished chords such as out 
    of the key of C major, 
    C, Dm, Em, F, Gm, A, Bdim
    I have applying chord scales in other modes  (Ionian major, Dorian,
    etc.)
    
    Now I am trying to apply the same using 7th chords, and later looking
    to add tensions to these 7's... such as 
    C7
    Dm7....adding the 9th tension
    Em7
    Fm7....adding the 11th tension
    Gm7
    A7.....adding the 13th tension
    Bm7-5..is this the correct chord for the 7th position???
    
    I would like to learn these chord scales in other modes, but from
    what I can understand, there are some chords within a given mode that
    I cannot add a 9th, 11th or 13th tension to (6th and -6th). I am having 
    a hard time understanding when these tensions or others can be applies 
    and where. 
    Am I on the right track???
    
    Has anyone got a good method to help me understand what, when and where
    tensions can be used? Is there a particular 7th chord form you use
    where these tension could be readily added without much alteration of
    the 7th chord form? 
    

	Here's the deal.  I'll be playing a song from a song book, and
	something like 'G/B' will turn up.  What the hell is that?  How
	do I play it, and what does it look like?

	Thanks,
	-pat

    -1
    
    >What the hell is that? 
     
    What's that?  It's Pat!
    8^)

    

	Verse:

			 Em			C
			
			 Em			C


	Chorus:

			 D				   Am7
	You were just ____           a face in the crowd ____

			   G/B				Am7	
	out in the street,____	     walking around; ____

			     Em			C
	a face in the crowd.____

re:  G/B

The G/B usually means play a G chord, with B in the bass. Most people
just play G and let the bass player play the B note. 

I see a lot of this stuff in church, since a lot of the music is 
"folk" type music. The guitarists just play the chords and leave
all of the "interesting"  notes to me. ;^)

-Tom
(Who gets real tired of playing progressions based on 7th chords)

re: bass parts for 7th chords

The music we play in church has an awful lot of  7th chords in the
chorus/verse and verse/chorus transistions. As a result, I end up
playing a lot of ascending and descending arpeggios for the 7ths. 

For example a descending run for G7:

G F  E  D

or Ascending:

G A B  C

These could be any notation, depending on tempo (ie could be
quarter notes, 8ths or some other combination). 

Any ideas on how to spice these kinds of things up? Keep in mind
this is in a "folk" context. I can't very well play those Billy Sheehan
128th note runs in church.. ;^) ;^)


-Tom

    Re: .323
    
    Not sure exactly what you're trying to achieve, but you could do stuff
    like this:
    
    Instead of G A B C play G A G B G C (obviously you have to play with
    the time to stuff in the extra notes!) or G B E D C
    
    You could get chromatic: G D Db C
    
    Get funky: G D F D F C (like the tag in "Mustang Sally"), 
    G G E E D D E E C (8th notes, like the riff in "Turning Point") 
    
    etc. (are these too obvious?)
    
    Also don't overlook just playing pedal tones, double-stops or doing
    root-5th-ocatve type things while sitting on a chord.  
    
    						Brian
    
    P.S. When in doubt use a biscuit drop  8^)  8^)

    Brian pretty much covered the bases (ar ar), but one thing harmonically 
    you can keep in mind when playing bass over Dom 7 changes is that the
    7th degree of one chord usually is a chromatic approach note to the
    major 3rd degree of another.  Example:
    
    G7            C7            F7            Bb7
    
    G  B  D  F    E  C  G  Bb   A  C  F  Eb   D  F  Bb Ab
    
    
    Happy harmony...
    Buck E Lee  

    Here's a common G/B voicing:
    
    String	Note	Fret
    E		G 	o--3
    B		D 	o--3
    G		G	o
    D		D	o
    A		B 	-2
    E		x       x-muted

    
    re: .325, .326
    
    Thanks!
    
    re: .325 "trying to achieve"
    
    Nothing really, just kind of in a rut and needed some new
    ideas.
    
    -T

    Why do you feel compel to play "runs". Why not just play
    what's appropriate at the time for the place, song and the intrumentation.
    Does that kind of music really need a lot bass work? I play in a church
    off and on and I try to keep it flowing and smooth, except when we get 
    into one of those earth shaking foot stomping bass slapping and popping
    fiery gospel songs.
    
    Anyway try some 10ths to really spice up your playing song really good
    when used approiately, just about evryone takes notice and they do
    sound good in that setting.
    
    Also do you bass players out there  always play  7ths and 9ths
    when they appear in a chord?
    
    Regards,
    Read_mostly_Errol

re: .-1

I don't feel "compelled" to play anything. I have to admit that some
of the music we play (most, actually) is a very simple. I like
to spice it up with some catchy and melodic bass parts. It helps
to A: keep my interest level up and B: make the music more enjoyable
for both the musicians and the congregation. 
 

-T

    Well, I did come across too strong and I aplogize for that but I hear
    so many bass players nowadays overplaying and competing with guitarist,
    and a lot of times they just get in the way of what's going on up front.
    
    But then again who is me to pass judgement.......let he, who hath
    never overplayed cast the first riff.
    
    Back_to read_only

re: .-1

Hey, don't go back to read only. The more voices in this
file the better. 

I'll check out the 10ths...

-T

If you consider yourself a "chord-banger" or someone who plays "scales in a
box", these exercises might help you step up to the next level (if you want
to).  It will also increase your fretboard knowledge.  They were a big help
for me!

These are 5 different major pentatonic scale patterns in the key of G.  At the
end of the note I will provide some licks using them that cover some territory.
Most of you know that G major pentatonic contains the notes G A B D E.  The G
(root) has an * on it.

Pattern 1     Pattern 2     Pattern 3    Pattern 4    Pattern 5

-----------   -----------  -----------  -----------  -----------
| | | | | |   | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |
| 1 1 1 | |   | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |
* | | | 2 *   | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |
| | | 3 | |   | | | 1 | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |
4 4 * | 4 4   1 1 * | 1 1  | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |
| | | | | |   | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |
| | | | | |   3 3 3 4 | 3  1 1 1 1 | 1  | | | | | |  | | | | | |
| | | | | |   | | | | * |  | | | | * |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |
| | | | | |   | | | | | |  | | 3 3 | |  | | 1 1 | |  | | | | | |
| | | | | |   | | | | | |  4 * | | 4 4  2 * | | 2 2  | | | | | |
| | | | | |   | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |
| | | | | |   | | | | | |  | | | | | |  4 4 4 * 4 4  1 1 1 * 1 1
| | | | | |   | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |
| | | | | |   | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | 3 3 3 | |
| | | | | |   | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |  * | | | 4 *

If you were to overlay all 5 patterns, you can see that there are "connecting"
or common notes that all 5 patterns share.  Knowing this, we can build some
licks using the first 4 notes of each pattern, and everything falls into place
nicely.  You can also string these patterns together so you can play all over
the neck.

  Lick 1         Lick 2       Lick 3       Lick 4      Lick 5

-----------   -----------  -----------  -----------  -----------
| | | | | |   | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |
| 1 | | | |   | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |
2 | | | | |   | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | | 3rd fret
| | | 1 | |   | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |
4 4 2 | | |   1 1 | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |
| | | | | |   | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |
| | 4 4 | 1   3 3 1 1 | |  1 1 | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |
| | | | 2 |   | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |
| | | | | |   | | 3 3 | |  | | 1 1 | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |
| | | | 4 4   | | | | 1 1  4 4 | | | |  1 1 | | | |  | | | | | |
| | | | | |   | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |
| | | | | |   | | | | 3 3  | | 4 4 1 1  3 3 1 1 | |  1 1 | | | | 12th fret
| | | | | |   | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |
| | | | | |   | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | 3 3 | |  | 3 1 1 | |
| | | | | |   | | | | | |  | | | | 4 4  | | | | 1 1  4 | | | | |
| | | | | |   | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | 3 | |
| | | | | |   | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | 3 3  | | 4 | 1 1
| | | | | |   | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |
| | | | | |   | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | 3
| | | | | |   | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | | |  | | | | 4 |


And finally, you have the "Lick of the Week".  It's not only fun to play,
but will get your pinky in shape!

-----------   
| | | | | |   
| | | | | |   
1 | | | | |   
| | | | | |   
2 1 | | | |   
| | | | | |   
4 2 1 | | |
| | | | | |   
| | 2 1 | |   
| 4 | | | |
| | | | | |   
| | 4 3 1 | 12th fret
| | | | | |   
| | | 4 | |   
| | | | 3 1   
| | | | | |   
| | | | 4 2   
| | | | | |   
| | | | | 4   

    What ho Chaps
    
    	Been very read only for a while but I need now dudes. 
    Basically Three questions
    
    1/ What is an Aeolean Major?
    
    
    2/ Has anyone got the modes built of the minor down?
    
    I think it starts Mel min........b3
                      Dor Flat II....b2,b3,b7 (?????)
    			.
    			.
    			.
    
    		     Locrian???????????
                     Super Loc/ altered Dom??????????????
    
    That's all I can remember, I would appreciate a complete list if anyone
    has it with what chord families each mode works over. (suggested 
    fingerings 3 notes per string would be a nice luxury :-)).
    
    3/ I have a Mick Goodrich Book which talks about the Lydian Chromatic
    Concept, I could not get my head around this at all, anyone heard of
    this who could put it in plain English (or American is fine too :-))
    
    Muchos Regardos.
    
    Pete.
    
    

    "The Lydian Chromatic Concept" is the title of a book written by jazz
    composer George Russell.  It can be ordered from Jamey Abersold (sorry,
    don't have the address with me!).  It's some sort of treatise on the
    theory of modern jazz improvisation.
    
    							Brian

    
	Geo Russell's Lydian Chromatic concept was developed around using
the Lydian mode and several variants of that mode(that he names)to come up 
with a set of rules(for a lack of better terms)for improvisation and 
composition. By using this you would end up using some unsual notes(not 
typical)in improv. As I remember he evolves this theory into a chromatic
scale. Geo Russell at one point was at the New England Conservatory of 
Music in Boston. In the 70's the George Russell books were like $30 each
so if you do find a copy it will cost $$$$$. You might look for it in the 
music section of a larger library. In the late 70's I was led to believe
that Pat Martino was an example of how the Lydian Chromatic concept was 
used,however it was stricly coincidence if it was true.....


							Rick

PS If you find a copy you might mention it in here,or even ask for more 
info in the Jazz Notefile....

	

	For Pete -

	1. I don't know what Aeolian Major is.
	2. there are 3 minor scales. the Natural Minor scale is
		the same as the major scale so its modes are the same
		The Ascending Melodic Minor scale has modes, let look at
		them for C AMM: C D Eb F G A B C. I like to think of modes
		moving around in a circle of 5th from the Lydian....

		Most of these I usually think of as Chords rather than scales

		F G A B C D Eb F - (#4,b7) this is Lydian Dominant... (F7#11)
		C D Eb F G A B C - (b3) Ascending Melodic Minor (CmM7)
		G A B C D Eb F G - (b6,b7) Mixo b6? Aeolian Major? (G+7 or G7)
		D Eb F G A B C D - (b2,b3,b7) Dorian b2? (D-b9) Yet to see one...

		and so on. You can do the same for the Harmonic Minor. These
		get to be pretty useless outside of the context of the chords
		diatonic to these types of keys and the resulting functional
		harmony.

		I learned "Super-Locrian" scales once but have forgotten
		them for a while. When I need to use one, it'll pop back up.

		As for chord families and modes - learn functional harmony -
		I'm doing this by playing Jazz charts. As for fingering...
		the most important part of any of the chords is 3 and 7 -
		two fingers worth. The other two fingers can be used for
		playing 1, 5, or color notes (6, 9, 11, 13).

	3. Lydian Chromatic? Ain't been there yet.


	Hey dig this - all of this head shit isn't music, it's just chatter
	on the right side of the brain. Try singing some original melodies
	and transcribing your voice onto the guitar. Like Laurie Anderson
	said "Writing about music is like tap-dancing about architecture"


		

    An Aeolian Major is the rank above Captain in the Aeolian Armed Forces.

    That is hilarious, Paul!!!  
    
    Greg

   >> An Aeolian Major is the rank above Captain in the Aeolian Armed Forces.
    
    No way!  Aeolia is one of the 12 moons of the planet Zarghovski......I
    checked.....
    
    Steve the Astronomer
    

    
    Thanks for the info chaps, look what I found in .287...........
    
    I thought I'd seen it in here *somewhere* in this vast supository ;^)
    
    >>  Here are the names that jazz people generally use for the modes of
    >>  the melodic minor scale:
    >>
    >>  I   Melodic minor
    >>  II  Dorian flat two
    >>  III Lydian augmented
    >>  IV  Lydian dominant
    >>  V   Hindu
    >>  VI  Locrian sharp two
    >>  VII Super Locrian (a.k.a. altered, altered dominant,
    >>	Pomeroy, Ravel, diminished whole-tone)
    >>
    >>
    	
    I can make a guess at some of these things, can anyone check this out 
    & make the necessary corrections please?  
    
      I   Melodic minor..........b3
      II  Dorian flat two........b2,b3,b7
      III Lydian augmented.......#4,#5
      IV  Lydian dominant........#4,b7
      V   Hindu..................????????????????????
      VI  Locrian sharp two......#2,B5,B7????????
      VII Super Locrian..........????????????????
                         
    (Thanks to Mr. Heiser for the original draught in .287.)
    
    re.339 I hear what you say about technocrap, but it's sort of a stage
    us lesser mortals have to go through, I now use Dorian Mixo,
    Pentatonics, without having to analyse what I am doing.  I know how they
    sound & I can apply what I feel appropriate, however to get to this
    stage I had to slog through learning chords & scales etc until I had a
    system that wouldn't let me down.  I am trying to extend my musical
    model of the world, so I am finding another set of colours for my
    pallette as it were.  Can you dig that? I don't think I said it very
    well!
    
    Cheers.
    
    
    
    Cheers
    		Pete.
    
    
    I
    

    
    Sorry, typo in .-1. Last paragraph replies to Mr.Bennett in 
    .337 *not* .339 as stated.
    
    Cheers
    		Pete.

>    "The Lydian Chromatic Concept" is the title of a book written by jazz

Isn't that the treatise that deals a lot with tritones?

Someone told me it's out of print.  I've seen a photocopy of it, which 
suggests either it's out of priint or very expensive.

Bob

    I have a copy of George Russell's "Lydian Chromatic Concept of Tonal
    Organization" that I bought sometime in the '60's. It is a method of
    developing improvisation skills by relating scales to chords using a
    procedure that I can't even begin to explain. I can't see how anyone
    playing over a set of fast changes would be able to go through the
    mental gymnastics to select a Db Lydian scale to play over a Gm7b5
    chord using this "concept"--the book includes numerous chord and scale
    charts and even a paper slide rule device to show how these decisions are
    made, but I never have enough room on the bandstand to spread it all
    out around me, and I haven't figured out how to use the slide rule
    during a solo :-)
    
    When I bought it, the store owner told me to save my money (I think it
    was $30, maybe more), saying that no one to whom he had sold it had
    understood it. Back then I had too big an ego to accept that there was
    anything I couldn't understand (I'm sure you're all shocked to learn
    this), but he was right. I read it every once in awhile to see if a
    lightning bolt of understanding will hit me, but after thirty years, it
    still means almost nothing to me.
    
    A more useful (to me, anyway) series of books on jazz improvisation was
    written by David Baker, covering a range of subjects from general
    improvisation ideas to specific chord patterns. Baker expands quite a
    bit on Russell's concepts and makes some of them easier to understand,
    but buying a complete set of these books is an expensive proposition. 
    
    
    Danny W.
    

    Yeah, the LCCoTO can be a lot of left brain gymnastics.  To me, it's
    just a way to impose a little order on something Eric Dolphy (I think)
    said - there aren't any right or wrong notes; you can use 'em all if
    you resolve them right.
    
    The main value I find in the book is that if I sit down with it and
    play through the exercises from time to time, it jogs me into finding
    ways to work those other 5 notes into my lines...it sort of helps me
    get into a frame of mind where it's very natural to do that.
    
    Paul

	If the root is moving in a circle of fifths, the original b3 is
	moving in a circle of fifths, too - but counter-clockwise

	Normal Modes:

	IV  Lydian		                        #4

	I   Ionian		                    p4, M7

	V   Mixolydian		                p4, b7, M3

	II  Dorian		            p4, b7, b3, M6

	VI  Aeolian		        p4, b7, b3, b6, M2

	III Phrygian		    p4, b7, b3, b6, b2, p5

	VII Locrian		p4, b7, b3, b6, b2, b5,  1

	(Hain't that purdy?)

	Apply the same systematic roll-out of the modes to the
	Melodic Minor scale but look out for the b3.
	

	IV  Lydian Dominant	                        #4, b7
  
	I   Melodic Minor	                    p4, M7, b3

	V   Hindu		                p4, b7, M3, b6

	II  Dorian b2		            p4, b7, b3, M6, b2

	VI  Locrian #2		        p4, b7, b3, b6, M2, b5

	III [ Nasty... ]	    p4, b7, b3, b6, b2, p5, b1 <-- FLAT ONE?
	    Lydian Augmented	    #4,                 #5

	VII [ Nasty... ]	p4, M7,                 #1 <-- SHARP ONE?!
	     Super Locrian	    b7, b3, b6, b2, b5,  1, b4


	Similarly we can treat Harmonic Minor as a major scale with a
	b3 and a b6:
 
	IV  Lydian Minor 7?	                        #4, b7, b3

	I   Harmonic Minor	                    p4, M7, b3, b6

	V   Phrygian Major?	                p4, b7, M3, b6, b2

	II  Locrian #6?		            p4, b7, b3, M6, b2, b5

	VI  Altered Lydian?	        p4, b7, b3, b6, M2, b5, b1 <- FLAT ONE?!

				        #4, M7, M3, M6, #2, p5,  1 (canonical)

	III Augmented?	   	    p4, M7, M3, M6, M2, #5,  1

	VII Dim. Locrian?	p4, b7, M3, M6, M2, p5, #1 < SHARP ONE?!

				b4, bb7, b3, b6, b2, b5, 1 (canonical)


	Now go entertain somebody.....
				




				

    
    WoW!
    
    	All of a sudden pentatonics sound a lot better :-)
    
    Pete.

    STOP THE PRESSES!  I just stumbled upon something the other night that
    I just have to share.  How would you like to play your pentatonics
    (with blues note) in repeating patterns (ease of memory) in 2 different 
    patterns with 3 notes per string?  These were too good to be true, so I 
    went wild on them the other night for hours.
    
    Check these out:
    
    ===========    (fret)    ===========
    | | | | | |              | | | | | |    
    | x | | | |              | | | | | |    
    x | | | | |       3      | | | | | |    
    | | | x | |              | | | | | |    
    x x x | | |       5      x x | | | |    
    x | | | | |              x | | | | |    
    | x x x | x       7      x x x x | |    
    | | x | x |              | | x | | |      
    | | | x | |       9      | | x x | |      
    | | | | x x              | x | | x x      
    | | | | x |              | | | | x |      
    | | | | | x      12      | | | x x x
    | | | | | |              | | | | | |      
    | | | | | |              | | | | | |      
    | | | | | |      15      | | | | | x            

    
    
    Someone told me about this thing that Carlton uses called the super
    arpeggio.  It's like a series of major & minor thirds or overlapping
    triads.
    
    Can anyone explane this in one syllable terms & put some examples in
    tab please!
    
    Ta in advance
    
    Pete (confused of Reading)

    Pete,
    
    As I remember, he goes into this in fairly good detail in his
    instructional tape.
    
    I don't have the time right now to type in musical examples but 
    for example he might "think" of an Am9 (A C E G B) either
    C major triad super-imposed over an A, or a E minor triad super-imposed
    over an A.
    
    I'm sure if I listened to some records I could point out examples but
    remember that it's not that he just plays the triad,  I think it has
    more to do with how he "thinks" about the music and then he applies
    other ideas to the solo.
    
    OK, one example comes to mind: in "It Was Only Yesterday" there's a
    section in the middle where he plays a general riff that goes up a
    third down a fifth and up a third using triplets (probably the only
    triplets in the tune) that is a clear cut example of that.  It's on
    the "Room 335" album.
    

    Pete,
    
    As db says, he explains this well in his video.  It's just alternating
    steps of major third, minor third. Starting at any root note, and doing
    it for long enough, you eventually spell all of the triads. This's
    gonna be hard to do in notes, but I'll try and show you what I mean.
    Starting from C, and stepping major third minor third, gives you:
    
      major 3rds
      v     v     v
    C  E  G  B  D  F#  A ... etc
         ^     ^      ^
         minor 3rds
    
    Okay? So, if you triads from that, you get:
    
     __C__ __G__ __D___
    |     |     |      |
    C  E  G  B  D  F#  A  C# ...
       |     |     |      |
        --Em- --Bm- --F#m-
    
    
    How do you apply it? Well, given a C major chord, you can play triads
    from this super arpeggio. The further you go along it (away from the
    root chord) the more outside it's gonna sound. Over a C major chord,
    you might play the C, G and D arps, or Em, Bm, or, of course, mixtures
    of both. Carlton does some excellent examples of this on the video.
    
    HTH,
    
    Nick

>    As db says, he explains this well in his video. 
    
    I didn't know db had a video!

    > I didn't know db had a video!
    
    > Where do I get one?
    
    Which of my instructional videos do you want: "Soloing concepts"
    or "How not to change a diaper"?
    
    ;-0)
    
    	db 

    I think I have the diaper thing down pretty well, after about a year of
    it and I think my soloing's pretty darn close to hopeless, so I don't
    guess I can use either one.
    
    ;^)
    
    gh

    No, db's video is on changing a diaper *while* soloing!  I think.  %^)
    
    Dave

>    No, db's video is on changing a diaper *while* soloing!  I think.  %^)
    
    This is highly hazardous and should be avoided at all costs.  That
    diaper rash goo plays extreme havok with guitar strings and finishes
    (but makes great lube for locking whammy systems).
    
    Also, pointy headstocks may be damaging to your child... 
    
    Greg

    >    No, db's video is on changing a diaper *while* soloing!  I think. 
    
    All this talk reminds that I've been meaning to discuss my latest
    "low cost sound insulation" material discovery:  Huggies.

    
    
    
>>    All this talk reminds that I've been meaning to discuss my latest
>>    "low cost sound insulation" material discovery:  Huggies.
    
    Is that with or without the user supplied adhesive????
    
    

    Actually Pampers work better now that Huggies have reduced the volume
    of their fill material.
    

    I was tooling around last night, something which I don't get much time
    for but jamming by yourself is when you learn the most,cause you
    can make some really awful noise and no one gets to hear it.
    
    
    Try this
    
    
    ----14------------
    ----12-----------
    ----11-------------
    -----------------                Play this over a B chord
    -----------------                and arppegiate it reasonable
    -----------------                slow with distorion and then
                                     get some slow vibrato with the 
    				     tremolo arm happening.  This is
     `				     a new shape for me and I like it!
    P.K.
    

    Re: .360
    
    Play it fast, skip the whammy,  and you can sound like U2!
    

    Brian, you forgot to add the 400ms delay...

    1. I recognize that tab as F#, B, F# (root/five of the b chord), but what
       the hell duz "arpeggiate" it mean?  Isn't that sum kinda pasta?
    
    2. why would I wanna sound like U2?
    
    dawg

    re -1 "arppegiate" from the latin = Dumb aussie who cant spell.
    
    	I meant play one note after the other, and if you time it right
    it sounds nothing like U2 and is a good trick during a blues solo as
    well.
    
    P.K