Conference napalm::guitar

I dunno...  Seems to me that the only time I can write a tune is
when I'm strickin' with an ailment I call inspiration.  
I have to be inspired to write something.  I generally have a 
collection of riffs that I've been playing with for a while (trying
to develop them into something), so when I'm inspired to be creative,
I sit down and play a riff..Whatever happens to pop into my head.

Kinda like "Hey, that could be a verse...".  I stop playing write some words...
Rut-roh...Need a bridge.  back to the guitar... Sometimes the bridge will
make me think of a chorus ...  I juts go back and forth.

BTW - I'm not that great a song writer, so feel free to hit NEXT UNSEEN.

I guess the bottom line is, if I sit down intending to write, I don't get 
very far.  I can't seem to tap any creative resources unless I'm
inspired.

;)

    I find I have the most success if I start with a bass figure. I like to
    work with a Roland D5 drum machine, with has both drum and bass sounds.
    First, I'll get an interesting rhythm going. I'll then toss in a bass
    figure for a few measures. Then some guitar to layer over it. Another
    bass figure, some more guitar, etc. Before you know it, I have all the
    parts and I'm ready to arrange. I work out some lyrics and try the
    arrangement. I might have to add some stuff or change some stuff to
    fit the words.
    
    I find the best thing to do is to START with something, anything, no
    matter how stupid it sounds to you at first. Music is an evolving
    process. I can't tell you how many times my original idea was scrapped.
    The first idea is the seed, however, and you need to overcome the
    hurdle of getting started. Almost anything is acceptable to start with.
    
    I'm no Mozart. I need to hear what it sounds like. I can't just spit
    out masterpieces as they occur to me in my head.
    
    If you don't have a drum machine, you can probably achieve the same
    effect by recording the bass figures off your guitar.
    
    Then there are other times when I start with a guitar riff . . .
    
    Remember, don't go for a perfect fit the first time. If you're working
    on a guitar part to a bass figure and you really like the guitar but it
    doesn't quite fit the bass, change the bass. You have to be willing to
    go back and forth between instruments.
    
    Most importantly, have FUN!
    							John.

    
    What is that magic and sometimes unreachable formula for writing
    your own stuff?

***** No magic,just plain hard work and then some!!!!!!!and lot's of
discipline and concentration. 

         The guitar can very often be used as the medium to spark
         off ideas but other instruments can spark off other ones
         from the same basic starting notes etc.
    
         How do you get over these "dry" periods where you sit down
         determined to think of something and even the style which you
         want eludes you?

***** The guitar is a good medium to spark ideas,along with being portable,
however other outside influences,advice can also assist you in perfecting
your "song" (ie kids,dog,cat,friends) 
	I find when I reach a "dry period" it's time to take a break and do
things like listen and play with other people. Learn from other people and
solicit opinions. Learn from books and magazines to improve at your talent
or capabilities. I will have someone else sit and listen and remix a 
recording for example. I will listen to some really "melodic" musicians
on tape or several different idioms or styles......
	I also find lengthy recording/composing sessions can be stagnating
and your musical ideas might become "old". Get out and play/jam with people
or even consider starting a "band or combo". Try to make progress as a 
knowledgeable musician first and a guitarist second. But always work hard
at progressing!!!

							Rick

							

      I have to back up what Rick is saying. It's sometimes good to NOT Force
    yourself to come up with things. Do something only- if you have
    something either to say- or do.
      Another thing is to play with other musicians, possibly with the
    intent to come up with something. (But with no pressures to perform)
    Sometimes you might just want to sit back and listen to any/all kind(s)
    of music that you find intriguing or inspiring- possibly analyzing
    or sensing the *Feeling* of a particular Song(s)/Artist(s).
      There are many pools that you can get your inspirations from in every
    day life. Go camping. Ride a train and watch how people are, read a
    book.
      You might want to work on new tecniques in playing, or take up
    another instrument.
    
    
    J/ 

    Don't force a composition, walk away from it if you have to.  I always
    write my best material when relaxed/refreshed.  Best times for me are
    in the morning.  I also keep a pencil and paper near my bed.  I'll wake
    up in the middle of the night with some great ideas, sometimes from a
    dream, sometimes they just pop up.   I write them down so I won't
    forget them, plus I'll be able to go back to sleep ;-)
    
    The above also works great for solving project-related problems at
    work.  Your mind does its best thinking when it is relaxed.
    
    Mike

re -1

I agree, don't force anything, or it will, predictably, come out sounding 
contrived.

Mike D

    Most importantly, if you don't like it, throw it away.
    
    							John.

    
    
       Working nights, I usually spend 1 or two hours each morning
     composing music.
       
       I do have a rather backwards formula, which works for me.
    I create a rhythm background using several midi synths and a sequencer
    tied into a four track, and through my home stereo system.
       Next I'll strap on the guitar, and "flail" away until I come
    up with a suitable melody for the larvae "song".
       This melody might eventually become just the vocal melody, or
    a synth line. 
       Next, I listen to it the next day.
       If it's crap, it's trashed.
       If it's good, I polish it off musically, add lyrics, and make
    all my friends listen to it until they puke.
    
      But I write **every** day.
    
      You may actually hear some of it and judge for yourself if some
    of the other "musicians" in this conference get off their collective
    butts and send some originals in to Greg for the Guitarnotes Tape!.
    
    Rich C.
    
    
    

    I agree %110 with everything so far...and got some ideas.
    
    I've been "writing" stuff for 20 years (please no comments from those
    who have heard my stuff! :-)  ). I usually come up with words first,
    unless i am just writing music. In the few cases when i come up with
    music first, i have to have some vague outline of words or it won't
    work. To come up with things, you can listen to how different people
    use devices (chord changes, ect.) to come up with an effect and try
    and figure out how you would use them. I'm sure that every thing i've
    done has been influenced by somthing i've heard.
    When it comes to words, IMHO, you should have something to say. Pick
    a subject, person, place and try to put your opinion or dream or #(*&#
    down in some pattern, I always have trouble cause i like rymes, but
    thats not alway good.
    Or if you have a subject you like, learn how to be creatively vague, 
    an example of this (to me) is Beauty and the Beast by Bowie as well as 
    lots of REM stuff.
    
    Jay
    
    Just start! Experiment like everyone here says! And don't be afraid to
    have someone you trust give you their opinions on your stuff. unless 
    you are writing stuff for yourself or whatever.
     
    
    
    
    

    Thanks for input so far guys.
    
    It looks like I have set out in roughly the same direction as
    the input so far suggests but I require to put a lot more work
    in.
    
    However what about the more analytical side of things.
    There seems to be two types of times when writing
    1) Late at night when maybe had a couple of drinkies and the
       groove is flowing. You can't go wrong and can't get ideas
       down fast enough. (Probably because of the drinkies!)
    2) You are in the cold light of day, you are thinking analytically
       so what about :-
    
       What are the parameters which define or confine the masterpiece
       to a particular style?
    
       What kind of consonants or word combinations, ryhmes are best
       to create different types of mood atmosphere etc.
    
       How about the use of a computer with "n" phrases combinations
       to produce skeleton lyrics.
    
       The same with relevant music phrases.
    
       The previous idea of making ideas vague. Great! I have seen
       this done often, but not easy, especially for this down to earth
       Engineer type. How do you go about this?
    
    I heard someone interviewed on the radio recently and
    they use a small tape recorder in the car because they got most
    of their best ideas there. Wish I could remember who it was.
    
    Of course I realise that as I have never bothered to learn
    music theory that this is my next priority.
    
    Thanks again,
    
    Robin S.
    
       
  

RE:	1752.10

If you're interested in the technical or analytical aspects 
of lyrics, there is some help available.  I read A Prosody 
Handbook a few years ago.  I don't remember the author, but I 
borrowed it from my local library.  It helped me understand 
the interplay between various consonant and vowel sounds and 
the mood established by the words.  It also helped me 
understand the structure of poetry (meter and feet) and how 
that affects the poem.

It has always seemed to me that a line of verse almost 
establishes its own melody line:  longer consonants such as R 
or S want a longer time to be said and naturally tend toward 
relatively long notes - quarter or half notes.  Shorter 
consonants, P or T, for example are said quickly and as such 
tend toward shorter notes  - eighth or sixteenth notes.  
Accented syllables seem to rise in tone.  An excellent 
example of this is the line "The rain in Spain stays mainly 
on the plain" from The Music Man.  You've probably heard 
singsong recitals of poetry (perhaps from grammar school) 
where this natural tendency is irritatingly enhanced.

As to a standard practice or formula for writing songs, I 
think it has more to do with what you want to accomplish with 
your songs.  If your prime goal is to get a specific message 
across, you'll probably come up with the lyrics before the 
melody.  If you want establish a mood you'll come up with a 
rhythm or melody line first and pick lyrics that support that 
mood.

In any case, a relaxed approach, combined with musical or 
lyrical study, should yield the best results.  If driving in 
the car is a relaxing time for you, take advantage of it.  If 
it isn't, don't force it!

        - Rich
  

    What is meant by vague?
    
    Double - triple - quadruple entendre. Music is most effective when it
    expresses something universal. Use multiple entendre to create new
    abstracts. Say something intuitively true.
    
    							John.

	The Rain in Spain.... My Fair Lady?

		-Me and My Pig, Malion.

    What i meant by vague was lyrics that were cryptic or whatever, and if
    you break the song down piece by piece, it becomes clear to you. We
    arent' talking top 40 stuff here!
    
    For example, The Song Happy Family by King Crimson, off the Lizard
    album is about the Beatles. Its not clear by hearing the lyrics though.
    I just like it cause is very weird. Not that its a great piece of work.
    
    What i find that works for me is to first get an idea for a song, 
    start watching old movies, and i usually hear some common phrase 
    within the context of the movie that catches my ear, then i'll put
    the line into the song and it makes sense (at least to me). 
    
    Its probably best to try for stuff people can relate to. Taking maybe
    something specific in your life and changing it so its universal to
    everyone. Some of the stuff on Tom Pettys new album  does that i think.
    
    jay

    RE: 1752.13
    
    My Fair Lady is, of course, the correct reference.  The Music Man
    coincedentally does have another example which illustrates the tie
    between the sound of words and the mood or feel.  I believe it is
    called "'Gotta Know the Territory".  The words and music evoke the
    sense of train travel, while serving to set the scene for the play.
    
    	- Rich

    re -1
    
    Not to mention "Pick a Little, Talk a Little".
    
    What a great show, saw a "Broadway" production of it in Houston. 
    Fabulous!
    
    Will