Conference napalm::guitar

    
    I like Eddie Van Halen's stage attitude, myself.  Sometimes I think
    he "acts" like a dork, but he looks like he's having fun ALL THE
    TIME!!!
    
    Way I see it, if I can't play it with smile in the music or on my 
    face, it's too hard for me to play :-|
    
    J. who's_serious_only_in_the_shower
    

    Wipe that grin off yer face and get serious, J!  This is music, and
    it's like totally serious, ok?
    
    "So you're a serious musician, eh?  Well where's your scowl?  
    
    ...and what are you doing here at rehersal on time???"
    
    re: Kevin
    
    I'm with you, man.  I'm also getting sick of that phrase.  I think if
    a salesman told me I wasn't "serious about my sound" just because I
    objected to the price of something, I'd be advising him that he must
    not be too serious about selling one with that kind of attitude
    (followed promptly by finding the way out).
    
    I had one guy tell that I couldn't demo amps or effects with his PRS
    guitar "'cause I might scratch it".  Needless to say, they didn't sell
    any amps or effects (or PRS guitars) to me.
    
    Please excuse my rambling, I'm hyped about going to see Joe Satriani
    tonight!
    
    Greg

    EVH may be a "serious" musician, but equipment wise I think his live
    tone sounds like dog doo.  So much for the bradshaw system!

	For $1200 I'm serious enough to go for 10 used Kent guitars
	and 6 Kustoms w/green metalflake.

	It's a world of hype out there. It'd be nice to crack into the
	scene totin' a Rokaxe and a T-Power amp sounding for all the
	world like Satriani's $50,000 rig. ;-)

	Did anybody see Neil Young on SNL with the Tweed TV Champs?

	Charlie_B_with_cheap_Rickenbacker_and_Hecho_en_Mexico_Champ_12

    
    It's easy to slag on people who use the word "serious".  I once had a
    similar salesman experience.  It's kind of stupid to say that someone
    who has to make price compromises or has chosen *not* to try to be a
    rock star isn't serious about their music.  
    
    As far as "serious" in band ads, I think it's legitimate.  C'mon, all
    of us have probably worked with some bozos in the past.  You know, you
    drive 30 minutes to rehearsal and the singer blows you off because he
    wanted to go to the movies.  Or you show up for a gig and one of the
    members says he has to go home to do his hair (!!!) and misses the
    entire first set.  To me, "serious" means no bullshit.  You show up on
    time and you do your thing to the bst of your ability.  
    
    							Brian

    RIGHT BRIAN!
    
    Use any word you like  -  ("serious" is a good one) - but the bottom
    line is that any collection of musicians who want to do more than jam,
    will never put their act on a stage for pay (for some "serious" bucks)
    if there's one member of the grouping that has less than a willingness
    to get beyond the "are we having fun yet" attitude.  If every member of
    the band ain't "serious/comitted/dedicated/pick your adjective", then
    that member(s) will drag the rest of the ensemble down and the band
    will (over time) rise only to the lowest level of commitment among the
    members.  
    
    Fun is fun and serious is serious and yes - they can co-exist but
    everyone needs to be on the same level regarding
    goals/objectives/attitude and yes - seriousness - - that's why (I
    believe) we will always see those types of expressions in ads - because
    when it comes to "putting your act on stage for bucks", it takes a
    serious effort and hard work.  Anything less is just non-competitive.
    
    d.

	Serious: 1.Grave in character,quality or manner;sober.2.Sincere
earnest.3.Concerned with important rather than trivial matters.

	I've put up with my fill of "serious" musicians along with there
drug habit's,bad attitudes,musical inability,egomania,and just plain
lack of professionalism! Unfortunately there are lot more of these type
of "serious" musicians than the other. 

	Beside's if you were really "serious" you'd leave DEC and do
nothing but music... right?  :^)

hey kevin.....

	Personally,if any salesperson treated me with that kind of 
attitude,I'd go find some other music store to do buisness with,they
all like the green stuff and there are alot of them who want to stay
in buisness. Or was it just one salesperson out of several? If that's
the case,and this has been the case with me,I just avoid that salesperson.
	
	Then again having "serious" hardware is an opinion,it's really
a matter of what you need is reliable and consistent week to week with
some degree of maintenance yearly. This is taking into consideration
that you either get "your sound" or "everyone else's" out of your hardware.
	I'd like to think that regardless of what I spend,that my hardware
that it is reliable and I sound good using it. 

    re -1
    
    	YES!!!
	      						Rick

    Nobody's eveer given me a hassle about being serious.
    Maybe it's the Orange Wig.
    
     Do you love to play? 
     Or do you play so people will notice you?
    I mean TheHotShots of the Guitar world, some guys who alot of people
    hold in high regard I have NO respect for, they rest on thier fame and
    don't grow.
     When looking for a sound, the idea of High Cost Equipment
    is irrelevent. Why blow two grand on a rack when you get a sound
    you want with 100$ Former smashed up Kitty Parts?
     A serious guitarist will not let other people, salesmen, other players
    tell him what to do.
     Better to slay an opponents head off with a smile than a fierce
    expresison. But to do so is NOT fun.
     Arnold Shwarzenegger writes about one of his heros in bodybuilding,
    Sergio. When he went up against him in competition he knew he could
    either remain a fan, and lose, or destroy his hero and be the victor.
     Neither do I think because you play in a band, don't play in a band,
    make money, don't make jack can you be called serious or not. SoWhat?
    

    
    	I think what they're asking for has to do with attitude. There are
    just so many "Let's get all F***'d up and make loud noises" players out
    there in the real world... The verb "Jam", as in the provberbial
    phrase "Lets Jam!" comes to mind.
    
    	When someone is asking for a serious player, they want someone
    who's doing it for more mature reasons than that, perhaps something like 
    "accomplishment"? Their fun is intrinsic to the process -
    
    	Joe Jasniewski

Ah, the drone and drivel of marketing hype!!!

So, if you want to be serious, then you'll purchase all the stuff
that "ONLY SERIOUS MUSICIANS" purchase, and what you do to get that
stuff is another point......  

Add another two naems to the list in this case, and there naive, and broke.


as far as the band thing goes, anyone can still apply...  You wont
know someone is serious till you're there for a while anyway.  that
goes for both the person trying to hook in, as well as the band lookin
for someone. I've seen many bands who touted them-selves as being serious,
and they were anything but.. 

Stuck up, snobbish, and clicky were better adjectives...



			Serious Musician:

One who tries, one who practices, (alone, at least daily, or close to it
as possible...) one who listens, one who plays well with others, one who never
thinks there's nothing left to learn, above all, one who notices and doesn't 
begrudge the better musicians.

That is my definition.  It aint got much to do with equipment...

    Speaking of marketing hype, how about those 24 fret guitars?  Is it
    really necessary to alter the scale for 1 or 2 more frets?
    
    I understand the advantage of being able to play up there if you
    NEED/WANT to, but most don't play up there.  
    
    Mike

    re: .10, others

    I know what you mean about having someone there that's not really into
    it, but reading that kind of ad still kind of gripes me.  I think that
    it has something to do with the connotations I read into the word
    "serious" in that context.  "Dependable" or some other word has a much
    more friendly ring to it to me.

    As to how "serious" a musician I am?  Hey, I try to show up to practice
    on time and know my parts before I get there.  I never miss a practice
    without having a good reason and letting the others know in advance.  I
    try to keep a good attitude about myself and my band.  I also enjoy
    having good quality equipment that works reliabily and sounds good. 
    Does this make me a "serious" musician?  
    
    I also bust up laughing at almost every practice.  I love playing, but
    I know that my ability is not always the best (or even where it sound
    be).  I'm not a real fast or a real clean player.  I'm also
    inconsistant, I have good days and bad days.  I also realize that I am
    not and probably never will be a professional musician (ie earn my
    primary income from performing music) so my job comes first.  You have
    to have priorities!  Do these things make me a less then serious
    musician?

    Greg                       

    (Sorry J., the last couple of weeks have been very demanding on me.
    It's not exemplary. I prefer to know the songs before practice and
    all).
             

    re -2 
    I thought the 24 fret thing was kindof bogus,
    but I have one know and like them tremendously.
    It wouldn't deter me from interest in , like a LesPaul,
    but having the frets up there I use em.
    I do some of the one string classical excersizes all the way up,
    from 17 frets on the Ramirez G string
    to 24. The frets being so small you have to adjust to the lack of
    space, but it'll seem like nothing after a while. 
    
    	The there's the Washburn wih 29 frets for Real Hi Notes

    I think the idea of the 24-fret guitars was to be able to complete
    the 4th octave without having to bend the high E string up a whole
    step at the 22nd fret.
    
    cheers/mike

    re: Mike
    
    The scale length isn't usually altered for a 24 fret neck, just that
    the neck is a little longer and the distance from the last fret to the
    bridge is a little shorter.
    
    Greg

    I'm a serious musician......I'm deadly serious about having FUN!!
    
    FWIW,
    
    Steve D.

    I would think that "serious" is not a binary state. A serious guitar
    player may live, eat and breath guitar, but not be into the performance
    aspect of music. Just playing alone to the best of their ability may
    be all the justification and feedback they want or need. Unfortunately,
    performance is sometimes touted as the end-all and be-all of music and
    as the loner goes thru the process of discovering it's not, some people
    get 'burned' as they persue their own grails. Is this person not
    serious? Or are they simply not dedicated to *your* goals.
    
    I think it's great when a few people can put a band together and work
    towards a common musical goal out of *desire*, not some sense of
    obligation. Is a musician not serious if they've gone thru more bands
    than underwear? Some definitely deserve the adjective. Others may
    simply have a different take on what constitutes 'serious' and it's
    healthy for even that to change over time.
    
    I like .17's attitude. If it ain't fun, why bother? Some bands are just
    simply TOO 'serious' for my taste. Bizness, bizness, bizness... I
    often wonder if they're serious musicians or axe-slinging accountants.
    
    Strive to know yourself, persue your OWN goals, and don't hurt anyone in the
    process. What could be more serious than that?
    
    Edd
    
    P.S. Of course, some people really *are* jerks!!

    
    
    The "Serious Guitarist" ads rub me the wrong way 'cuz they imply
    that I'm some kind of slouch if I don't have XYZ piece of gear.  It's
    the 'ol sales approach...first identify a problem and then supply a
    solution.  
    
       Problem:  You must not be a serious musician (therefore a dweeb) if
                 you don't have an XYZ.
    
       Solution: Buy XYZ and you, too, can be a serious-kind-of-guy.
    
    (It's the same thing with cars.  If you don't drive the latest hot car
    you might as well be driving your dad's conestoga wagon.)
     
    I once told a salesman that I didn't use any effects, just went right
    into the amp.  That rocketed me to the front of his "serious" list for
    sure.  Either that or he looked outside to see what kind of donkey I
    rode in on.
    
    I could almost read the look on his face...."Hagstrom guitar, Peavey amp,
    no effects.  Probably plays in a polka band."  From that moment on, if
    I'd asked to try an amp, I would have been given some very "unserious"
    guitar to try it out with.  
    
    Now, all those REAL musicians moonlighting as salesman are serious, fer
    sure!
     
    8-)
    
    Kevin
    
    

    

A good point was made.  "If it's no fun, why bother ?"
Thats my whole attitude.  I don't care about money, what somebody plays
(unless it sounds like total sh*t, and it has an impact on the band, or 
is unreliable), or what they look like.

I don't even care if the person is not the greatest musician in the world 
(hell, I'm not..I'm a hacker!).  It's all in the spirit.  If "Dude A" is 
playing is heart out and putting forth 110%, and "Dude B" is a better musician
but thinks his poops don't stink, then I'm ampt to go with "Dude A".  

I figure Dude A is gonna get better, and won't slow down... Dude B on the
other hand is already "too good for us" and will probably grow stagnant and/or
bored...Ergo, he won't learn anything new...  Dude B will soon be surpassed
by Dude A.

It's all attitude.  We can all learn something...Even if that something is 
keeping time or playing the simplest of lix.  If you stop learning new stuff,
you may as well hang it up.

FWIWW,
jc

    I don't react to these ads.  My reaction is to the folks that
    spend more time, energy, and money trying to improve themselves
    through equipment rather than learning their instrument or music
    in general.
    
    I see a lot of folks who I truly believe spend more time in music
    stores than practicing or even just "thinking" about music instead
    of electronics.
    
    Equipment doesn't impress me.  What impresses me is best described as
    "ambition" - striving to do something "better" or "different" or
    "totally new".
    
    	db

	I enjoy the ads. I'll enjoy them even more 25 years from now when
	I look thru and see the things we're buying up today that look
	tomorrow what Kasino amps and Silvertones look like to us today.

	My comments about kents and kustoms was really half tongue-in-cheek.
	The thing that re-activated my interest in playing and performing
	was watching 1 more Bono plays Jesus video on eMpTyV and wondering
	why not only the ads but the performers had become so Self-Serious.

	Ever see a pair of really anxious parents in the music store on
	Dec 19 bringing a JEM777 to the counter for 12 year old Johnny
	at home that's just gotta have one cuz Steve sez so?

	It's a rip-off, it has the young fellers by the balls.

	So get out there are make a name for yourself with yer old used
	Harmony, OK?

	I'm into the guitar + amp = music bit myself, at least until
	DSP256s and ARTSGEs start popping up used for $90, I recon that's
	be soon.

	Did anyone see the Signature Series Giveaway #11(?) ad this month
	that talks about the Soldano guitar head?

		"With knobs that REALLY DO GO UP TO 11!" !!!!!

	I think I'm ready for a Twister Sister marathon.

	Babbling_at_Spit_Brook

    
    
    .21
    
    
    	Hmmmmm... you raise a good point for me Dave... but how the hell do
    I get rid of this "tone" sickness???  I practice a couple of hours each
    day, but I'm beginning to get a little psycho about sound!!  I figured
    that my new gold lace pickups would "fix it" forever, but I'm still not
    quite satisfied ( the problem now is that my high E string has one hell
    of a lot less volume than the other 5 strings.. sigh, dbii might have
    been right, maybe I should have just gone out an bought a plus to begin
    with)  anyway... all this sound stuff is part of it right???  I know
    guys (no kidding) that are completely nuts about it, one guy I know
    punishes his guitar for sounding bad, by leaving it out in the car all
    night..  sick, huh???  When will this preoccupation with the sound go
    away, so that I can concentrate solely on my chop-eroos???
    
    
    Steve

    
    re: .13, Greg.
    
    Now, here's a serious musician in my eyes *AND* one that I could get
    along with!!! (That's a combination you can't beat!  I just hope that
    he says same about me!)
    
    So what if you have $10,000 spent in music equipment?  It doesn't mean
    jack s**t if no one wants to practice with you!  And so what if you're
    the next Yingyang prodigy?  What if no one wants to work with you cause
    you're so *SERIOUS* that no one else matters in your eyes, and no one 
    else's ideas are good?  The way I see it, we are a band!  They are 
    not my slaves and rather, they are my friends!  I thank heavens
    everyday that I don't have to put up with any ego during practice.  You 
    do your thing, and I 'll do mine and see if it works together and if 
    not, change it.  I am not a bass player and don't know bass, therefor 
    I will not tell the bass player what to do and vice versa.
    
    Being "serious" to me means that I am willing to put time and money, 
    doesn't matter how much of either, to get the task done, and hopefully
    an extra yard.  It also means that I am willing to be at each of the 
    practice unless I have other pressing engagements.  I am also willing 
    to have fun!  Usually I have fun because being in a band has always 
    been a dream of mine, and even if we sound terrible, I am getting a 
    big kick out of getting together!  One time I had tears standing in
    my eyes while during an original and we sounded really good and it 
    hit me, "We are starting to sound like a band!"
    
    Well, better quit before I write a novel! 
    
    J.

    Steve,
    
    If you put a couple of hours a day into playing, you are definitely
    not the type of person I was referring to.
    
    re: .-1
    
>    Being "serious" to me means that I am willing to put time and money, 
    
    I wouldn't say I really disagree with the sentiment, but perhaps with
    the statement.
    
    "Serious" to me isn't measured by time and money, although they may
    be correlated.
    
    To me "serious" means that you're willing to invest "effort".
    
    In addition to time and money, effort is measured by your willingness
    to "think" about music.
    
    That is, spending $10K on a rig, and playing 10 hours of exercises
    everyday doesn't make you "serious".
    
    You are serious if you frequently ask yourself questions like:
    
    	o What do I want to do
    	o How can I learn to do it
    	o What works, what doesn't
    	o Why can't I do it?
    	o Am I challenging myself
    
    BTW, I didn't invent this.  It's the single biggest thing I've learned
    from Steve Morse is that the "secret" of of playing is that it's
    mainly forcing yourself to use your brain every bit as much as your
    hands and fingers - possibly more so.
    
    I think that one thing has allowed me to excel even only playing
    (and spending) half as much as I used to.
    
    	db

    To me, a serious guitarist is
    
    1. Someone Who practices a lot and wants to get better, while still
    playing for the love and not the sake of it.
    
    2. someone who changes his strings at least twice a month.
    
    Juju
    xxxx
    

> 2. someone who changes his strings at least twice a month

There are some serious blues players that prefer to change strings only
*when they break*. I like mine slippery brand new fresh but I hate to
change 'em so they go every month or so... after they get black & nasty.

	I remember reading that Eric Clapton does't change strings until
	they break either (This in Guitar Player, somewhere around 1979).

	I'm fairly serious about guitar & I change my strings once a year
	(after all New Years gigs), whether they need it or not. I play
	with very light guitar picks & they usually last 8 to 10 gigs
	also. Last year I played 47 gigs & only had 2 strings break (these
	are GHS .008 or .009 boomers).

	So What's serious? I practice almost exclusively on an acoustic 
	guitar, but I almost only ever play on an electric live. I've been
	doing this for at least 10 years. I started playing in 1964 & I still
	own my first guitar (but don't use it much for live work anymore),
	a Gibson SG with 'soap bar' P90 pickups.

	I'd say that serious is a state of mind. I think a lot about music,
	but there is alot that I don't like. I rarely practice anything that
	I play out live, prefering to work on things that I like to play
	at home & working on styles that may not directly benefit my live
	work in any way. Serious to me means more along the lines of how
	you relate to your instrument and how you make it talk for you.
	The instrument itself is no more than an extension of your method
	of communication, no matter what brand it is. As always, I play
	what I like, and don't play what I don't like on my own time.
	At a gig, I play what pays. I try to make the 2 align where possible,
	but it's not always possible. There are a lot of serious guitarists
	who do things different from everyone else. No list of things to
	do will make everybody into a 'Serious' guitarist. As long as I'm
	happy with my efforts, then other opinions are just opinions. I'd
	suspect that other 'Serious' guitar players might think in a similar
	fashion. I'm always working on new stuff, because I want to, and
	for no other reason.

							Jens

    
    Good points, Jens!  Now, is that written in 2 pieces of stone by the 
    way? ;-)
    
    J.

    I go through strings like no one's business. If I didn't use a thin
    pick, I'd rip the strings right off the bridge. I work up a serious
    sweat whenever I play.
    						John.

    I change mine after every gig or at least once a week.  My sweat should
    be contained in thick plastic containers !  Powerful stuff ... plus I
    play pretty hard.
    
    
    
    				Scary

>>    I change mine after every gig or at least once a week.  My sweat should

	Humidity is practically non existant here in Colorado Springs.
	10% (or less) relative humidity is fairly common, and 40% (or
	greater) is extreamly uncommon. This is a semi-arid area; more
	like a desert than one might imagine. (I thought I would die last 
	time I was in Boston during the summer, it was so humid). This 
	might have an effect on how sweaty my hands are & general string 
	life. (Note: Humidity is this low in many of the western states,
	including southern California, where I lived before moving to
	Colorado.)
								Jens

    Arizona is the same way.  Humidity only hits 40% when monsoon season
    hits in August.  The norm is 0% - 20%.
    
    Bad part is dry skin ages faster ;-)

    Here in Greenville, SC it's usually never lower than 80%.  Sounds like
    a rain forest compared to you guys !	8^)
    
    
    				Scary

    You know they say the dry air makes your skin age faster too, but I
    don't believe it.  
    
    If you could see what I see in Phoenix or Southern Cal. in the summertime, 
    you wouldn't believe it either ;-)
    
    Mike

    RE -1
    
    Looking without touching will make you age faster....it's the anxiety!
    
    Steve d....|)