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Conference napalm::guitar

Title:GUITARnotes - Where Every Note has Emotion
Notice:Discussion of the finer stringed instruments
Moderator:KDX200::COOPER
Created:Thu Aug 14 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:3280
Total number of notes:61432

1678.0. "two transducers in series - does it make sense?" by AZUR::DOTTI (Ernesto Dotti - EIC Valbonne) Tue Feb 13 1990 08:42

    I have a double bass rigged up (cfr note 1602) with an ARIA stick on
    piezo transducer. The problem is that the output level is quite low so
    on the mixer I trim up the gain too much, enhancing consequently the
    noise picked up by the cables, connectors etc.
    
    Since these piezo transducers are kind of cheap, would it make sense to
    put two in series to boost the output voltage of the bass?
    
    The mixer input is a very high impedance so I figured out that putting
    two in parallel would not do any good since there should not be any
    current drawn on this circuit.
    
    I would put them in series with no passive device in between or in
    parallel with them; will the overall impedance be OK or there is need
    for some correction?
      ________________________
      |                      |
    _____                    |
     ___ piezo 1             |
      |                      |
      |                      -----------
      |                      ___________ jack
    _____                    |
     ___ piezo 2             |                          
      |                      |
      ------------------------
T.RTitleUserPersonal
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1678.1Passive/Active thoughtsTRUCKS::LITTENTue Feb 13 1990 11:2816
    I have no knowledge or experience of piezo transducers on a double
    bass, but using the analogy of a guitar having more than one pickup,
    I would guess that your idea would increase the output by a small
    amount ( providing they were in-phase). However, because a double
    bass is "acoustic" and reliant upon low frequency resonances to
    get it's sound, you MAY find that some frequency cancelling occurs.
    This may change the tone ( better or worse, I would not know!).
    My approach to your problem would be to  invest in a higher output
    transducer, or go active and use a small op-amp booster inside the
    bass itself.  This will get you the extra gain, and give a lower
    output impedance thus removing hum and noise.
    
    regards
    
    Dave
    
1678.2AQUA::ROSTEveryone loves those dead presidentsTue Feb 13 1990 12:3512
    
    I agree that a preamp is really your best solution.  A piezo elelment
    is very high impedance, so it is going to pick up lots of (electrical)
    noise so you're best off with a short lead run to a preamp and then let
    the preamp drive your mixer.  
    
    I'm not sure what brands are available in Europe, here in the U.S.
    Fishman and Barcus Berry (both transducer makers, BTW) offer such
    preamps and there are units from DOD and TC Electronics (they're
    Scandinavian) that will do the job for you.
    
    						Brian
1678.3Give it a try, you won't be out many $$$CSC32::MOLLERNightmare on Sesame StreetTue Feb 13 1990 15:4029
	If you have access to Radio Shack, go out & buy thier small
	Piezo buzzer, it has a similar element in it & it will work
	quite well (all for only a few dollers) . Placing 2 in series 
	will increase the output voltage. You will also see more voltage
	if you add mass to the other side of the piezo. The transducers
	that I've seen are usually the size of a nickel (about 5/8 inch
	in diameter) & have a piece of maple glued to the top with silicon
	adheasive. This is to add the additional mass to get greater output
	(these are pressure sensative). You might want to experiment with
	different amounts of mass (try double stick tape & a coin) to see
	how it affects the sound. Also try for placement. You can get
	some cancellation if the transducers are far apart. In most cases
	they sound best mounted under (if on the inside of the instrument),
	on top of (if on the outside of the instrument) or near the
	bridge. Since they tend to favor BASS, you might want them nearer
	the treble strings, or one transducer in the middle of the bridge
	and the other just off of the bridge on the treble string side.

	If you use the small Radio Shack element (be careful when soldering
	these, they are easy to ruin), you can add a cheap but very clear
	and effective piezo transducer system to any acoustic musical
	instrument (I even have one on my banjo!!). Preamps will help as the
	output level is not that high, but they are not always necessary if
	you are careful about the placement. Double stick tape (the stuff
	with the foam core) is excellent for final attachement, as is
	silicon based adheasive.

							Jens