Conference napalm::guitar

    What do you mean by "can't change strings"?

    The double locking tremelo systems like Floyd Roses make changing
    strings a royal pain.  It's not impossible, it's just that much more of
    a difficulty.  I personally think that starting out with a guitar that
    has no tremelo (or disabling the trem) when you're first starting out
    will help you concentrate on what you're really interested in, learning
    to play.  A trem is like an effect, it's just another distraction at
    first.
    
    Any floating tremelo system (where you can raise the pitch of the
    strings with the bar) makes tuning a pain, since you have to make
    several passes through the strings to get them right because the
    changing tensions by tuning strings make other strings go out of tune. 
    There's a balance point where everything's in tune, but it takes awhile
    to get there and can be REALLY frustrating for a beginner.
    
    If you get a guitar like a Squire Strat (which I've been pretty
    impressed with) with a tremelo, you may want to have it set up so that
    it only lowers the pitch of the strings (you can't pull it up).  It'll
    make tuning more straightforward.
    
    Greg
          

    
    Mat, if you do decide to get a guitar or if you just want to try
    out my setup then mail me and we can get together some time. 
    Also, I'll give you a few pointers in the right direction.
    
    Cheers,
    -Tony (Reading, UK)          

    Thanks Tony,
    
    If you don't get a mail today (6th - Payday!) then please put a reply
    saying so.
    
    
    Mattyb

    What sort of questions should I be asking?  And what answers are you
    going to give?
    
    
    Mattyb

    
    Ask what yer like, and I'll try to answer them  8^)

    OK,
    
    Question;
    
    Should I tune from Top E to Bottom E or visa versa?  My single (only)
    tuning fork is a Top E.
    
    
    Mattyb

    
    Use the tuning fork to tune the high E, that is, the thin sting 
    furthest away from you. Tune from the high E string to the low E
    (ie the string closest to you).
    
    Alternativly, buy a tuner!
    
    8^)     
    -Tony

    Most tuners will tell you the pitch of any given note taken into the
    input.  It probably have a needle (like a VU meter on a tape deck in
    appearance) for dialing it in perfectly.
    
    I highly recommend getting one, especially when you're play out with
    other folks.  You can get the whole band in tune together silently and
    with precision.  I was playing at a party once and wound up trying to
    get tuned for almost 20 minutes.  It's very embarassing when there's
    ten people standing there watching.  It sounds ridiculous, but it can
    happen.
    
    Learn how to tune and tune well without it for when you forget it, but
    get one.
    
    Have fun :)
    Will

    It's been years since I looked at the current market's tuners.  I guess
    I would recommend one that's sturdy, i.e. can be dropped, tossed to
    your buddy, etc.  I have one that I think I payed around $40 for.  It
    works just great, but it feels a little fragile in my hand, if you know
    what I mean.
    
    One thing I just thought of is that mine has three led's positioned
    under the needle.  If you get the string tuned dead center, they all
    three come on, so you can tune totally silently in a dark room.  Nice
    touch.  Also I would recommend one that automatically finds the note
    rather than expecting a specific string.  That way you just plug in and
    tune the whole intrument without touching the tuner.  Some, I believe
    are floor mount models (like a stomp box) that can stay in you circuit
    all the time, so you can tune while performing.  I guess it depends on
    your exact application.  In general, mine has been indespensible.
    
    I don't know what $40 would be in Pounds Sterling.  Ten trips to
    McDonald's maybe?  :)
    
    Will

    Okay, the nest question;
    
    What difference do different strings make?  All I know is that you have
    steel for steel strings and electric, and 3 nylon and 3 nylon inner for
    classical or spanish.
    
    
    Mattyb

>     <<< Note 1671.14 by SHAPES::BROWNM "A sound formed in a vacuum..." >>>
>                                  -< strings >-

	You've opened up a can of worms here. Every guitar player I know
	has hours worth of opinion on guitar strings. I personally like
	very light guage strings for my electrics and steel string acoustics.
	I also don't like the sound or feel of new strings (some people
	change strings frequently, I change on the day after New Years -
	Yes, I like the sound & feel of year old strings, they just happen
	to start breaking fairly frequently after about a year - I would
	suspect rust as well as wear caused by frets as the reason for
	the breakage).

	I can't talk about nylon guitar strings, 'cause I don't have any
	guitars that use them.

	For steel strings, the size of the thinnest string (the high E)
	will be how the rest of the string sizes are determined. They are
	matched up with the appropriate gauges based on the size of the
	thinnest string. For example: .007, .008, .009, .010, .011 and .012
	These sizes are based on the diameter in thousandths of an inch.
	You can feel the difference bewteen .008 and .009's and the
	whole set will be heavier as the gauge goes up.

	The amount of tension on the guitar neck goes up as the string
	guages increase. In the case of a 12 string guitar, figure more than
	double the stress on the guitar neck because the added strings
	(except the additional B and high E) are an octave above the other
	strings that they are next to. Heavier strings also put out more
	signal to pickups and transfer more sound to acoustic guitar tops.
	They also put more stress on the instrument & generally make it harder
	to play. Very light strings on an acoustic guitar tend to reduce the
	bass response, and if you have an OVATION (or similar guitar with
	piezo transducers under the strings or soundboard), you have to stick
	with the reccomended string guages, otherwise the output won't
	sound very good thru the electronics.

	I find that keeping the same gauge strings on all of my guitars, it's
	easier to play & my guitars tend to repond more similarly (as in
	acoustic feels like the electric). I also tend to practice on my
	acoustic 6 string & rarely on any of my electrics, but perform with
	an electric & rarely an acoustic. Keeping the feel of the guitars
	similar helps this work for me.

	As I said, I like light guage strings (.008's or .009') & I use
	thin picks. I'm not agressive tho, and tend to break no more than
	1 or 2 strings per year total (I play out around 40 weekends a year
	using the same guitar). I also don't have any vibrato's on any of
	my guitars, so your string life may vary considerably.

								Jens

    Thanks again
    
    How about plectrums.  I like the thin ones, just because they don't dig
    in to the strings.  But I can't hold the thing the way it shows in the
    book.
    
    Should I hold it how I like, or go by the book?
    
    
    Matty

    re: -1
    
    I suggest going by the book!!!  If you don't, you will acquire a bad
    habit, one with will be very hard to break later on in life!
    
    Also, I suggest very hard picks...I suggest all of my students to use
    Jim Dunlop Jazz III picks, because of their small, focused point, and
    they are very thick and unbending, which provides a nice attack.  Also,
    I suggest the Stylus Pick for beginners (See Tony Dallison for more
    details).  I have found tyhis is a VERY good tool to teach beginners
    how to pick properly!  The stylus should be used as an
    excercize...like, use it for a 1/2 hour of picking excercizes, then go
    to the normal pick, then back again, etc.
    
    Cheers,
    Buck

    Speaking of picks and Jazz IIIs...
    
    I used to use the Dunlop Jazz IIIs, but I've been using the Jim Dunlop
    Tortex Jazz models lately.  It's the same shape as the Jazz III, but
    it's made of the Tortex material rather then that wierd plastic the
    IIIs are and I like the feel better.  Heavys (kind of a purpley-red
    color), of course.
    
    Greg

    -1
    
    Really??  I can't seem to keep a grip on them myself!  I mean, they're
    so small to begin with...  I like the Jazz IIIs cuz they're meaty and
    you can get a good grip on em.  Plus they provide a wicked attack!

    It didn't seem like that much difference to me (with the heavys, the
    mediums are kinda a pain).  I really like the texture of the Tortex
    ones myself.  I tend to drop slick picks more.
    
    The Tortex ones still have that great attack!

    I'm surprised that there is a real difference between picks (plectrums
    to me).  I just thought they came in light, med. and heavy, but other
    that there was no difference.
    
    
    Matty

I use the lime green tortex picks...I love 'em. The local shop keeps a gross
around for me as I buy a couple of $$ worth every week or so...everywhere in
my  studio you find 'em under things etc..

dbii

	Until reading Professor Buckley's recommendation on using heavier
	picks I was using the little red .50mm dunlop tortex ones. I stopped
	and grabbed some of the lime ones on the way home from work last
	night and they're nice. I guess this is where I learn to back off
	the attack or get better at threading the buckle with fresh strings.

	The place I stopped didn't have the Jazz III's but I'm stopping
	a lot of places Saturday so I'll grab a few. The lime ones are great
	because I leave picks scattered all over the house and I can see'em
	better than the red ones.

	Charlie B

re: .88 lime green

Easy to find on stage too....

dbii

    Ok, next question;
    
    When playing melodies, I tend to just play whatever sounds nice, or
    use notes from a chord, then change chords and so on.
    
    Should I learn to play scales, or learn which note is which on the
    fingerboard?  At present I have to work out which string is which!
    
    
    Matty

    re: difference in picks
    
    There are a lot of different shapes, thicknesses and textures to choose
    from.  It's all personal preference as to the feel.
    
    re: lime greens
    
    Those are such a cool color, I wish that they didn't color code them by
    thickness, so I could get the heavy ones in that color.  The purple-red
    ones are hard to see in the dark!
    
    re: what to learn
    
    It's personal preference and what you want to do with it.  If you want
    to play rhythm parts or acoustic stuff, I'd concentrate on chords and
    timing first.  If you want to learn soloing, scales and arpeggios may
    help that.  In any case, I'd say that at least learning what all the
    notes are on the guitar would help you out whatever you play.
    
    Greg

    Re .25: Boy, for someone who's new to the guitar, I think you have a
    great idea on how to play melodies.  Ultimately, we are all striving 
    '...to just play whatever sounds nice,...'.  Notes from the chord are
    good notes, and can form a basis for playing melodies.  You can ornament
    these chord notes in many ways to add variety, e.g. play a half-step
    below a chord note and then play the chord note itself...sort of an
    'approach from below' technique.  There are many, many forms of
    ornamenting/adding to the melody notes. 
    
    You should learn to play scales, but not, in my opinion, just to
    play scales. I believe a good approach is: 'Hear' a melody in your 
    head, then use the muscle and ear memory developed by playing scales
    to play the melody you 'heard'.  In this case, the scales are like
    a tool.
    
    Hearing a melody in your head (by this I mean; Dream up a melody) and
    then playing correctly is not easy, if my experience is an indicator.
    Start easy, like maybe dreaming up a two- or three-note melody to start.
    If you're like me, some pretty boring melodies will show up, but it's a
    start.
    
    One technique I find very useful is to try and play the melody of 
    whatever tune I'm working on.  So, for a vocal tune, you would try to 
    play the notes the singer is singing.  This a little different than
    dreaming up the melody first, and then playing it; with this approach,
    someone else (the songwriter or singer) dreamed it up for you.  Now you
    just have to figure out how to play it.
    
    Sorry to ramble on,
    John Kelly
    
    
    

    OK guys, yet another question;
    
    Amps:  What's the difference between a practice amp and a `whatever it
    is called' amp?  And what do all the knobs do?
    
    
    matty

    A "Practice" amp is uaually nothing more than a smaller (wattage)
    amp, sometimes with fewer features.  The reason being that you
    generally don't need as much power to practice as you would need
    to play out.  Many guitarist use older amps for practice and louder, 
    more versatile and hopefully better sounding amps to play out. 
    You want to have a great sounding amp when you play a gig but, it
    is O.K. to have just a "good" to practice with.
    
    
    Knobs...  Well most amps have tone knobs (Bass, midrange and treble)
    and these work just like the tone knobs on a stereo, they boost
    or cut the sound at certain fequencies to alter the overall sound.
    The volume knob is pretty straight forward except on two channel
    amps.  On Channel switching amps, there are usaully 2 volume knobs,
    one for each channel.  On the "lead" channel, ther is a "gain"
    knob with is used to cause the lead channel to distort by overdriving
    the power tubes or transistors.  There is also a "reverb" knob on
    many amps which is used to adjust the amount of reverb the sound
    has.  Reverb is sorta lie an echo in a big hall.
    
    
    I hope this helps.    I am sure there will be more input to this...
    
    
    
    Don
    

	My Twin Reverb just doesn't sound the same at low volume levels,
	and my wife doesn't care for too loud an amplifier late at night.
	Practice amps are a good compromise in that you can hear your
	stomp boxes (if you are using them or some other signal processors)
	and feel a bit more like you are playing out live. I have a 4 watt
	unit that I made, built into my rack unit. It's mostly for
	use with headphones late at night, but it also works for driving
	my P.A. cabinets to a fair volume. I usually practice guitar parts
	on an acoustic guitar, rather than an electric, unless I'm searching
	for specific sound.

								Jens

    Could I get an amp that would cover practice on both guitar and
    keyboard?
    
    
    matty

    
    Sure, any guitar amp will do.  Keep in mind, though that if you want
    lots of high end and plan to play lots of bass on your keyboard, a
    regular guitar amp won't be optimal from a fidelity standpoint, but
    it'll work.
    
    Amps made specifically for keys typically have speaker cabs that can
    handle lots of bass and typically add a tweeter or horn to give good
    high end response.  They also usually have three or more channels to
    allow plugging in multiple keyboards.  These can be used for guitar,
    but then you lose the sort of stuff guitar players look for in an amp,
    like distortion, etc.
    
    							Brian

    I bought one!  I was feeling pretty depressed 'cause the building
    burned down, so I went to town and bought a guitar and practice amp. 
    It's a Yamaha RGX612A, the amp is a Demon 25W.  I'm dead happy with it
    so far, although I broke a string.  What do I do now?  So far I sound
    like Joy Division's nephew.
    
    I also bought a tuner.  Does anyone know what the presence pot does?
    
    
    matty

    I use a Roland JC-120 for keyboards and guitar.
    
    The overdrive sound on the JC-120 is kind of cheesey but I use a Roland
    GP-8 multi-effects processor for overdrive anyway (when I'm not using
    my Boogie).
    
    However the JC-120 is not really a "practice" amp.
    
    	db

    I tried the keyboard through the amp and it sounds like $**t.
    
    Question:  should I learn chord G next?.  I can play A, D, E & C till
    the cows come home.  If I learn G then I will have the A, D, E & G, C,
    D chord structures.  Is this what I should be doing?
    
    matty

    Maybe think about it this way:
    
    In key of C, the notes are C,D,E,F,G,A,B,and C again.  Number them like
    this: C=1, D=2, E=3, ... B=7.
    
    Also note this: C,F and G are major chords (in key of C),
                    D,E and A are minor,
                    B is diminished.
    
    In other words, 1,4 and 5 are major, 2,3 and 6 are minor, 7 is dimished
    by our numbering scheme, right?
    
    Here's the trick:  A LOT of songs are all 1,4,5 songs.  That is, in key
    of C, they're all C,F and G chords.  I mean there are zillions of them.
    
    If you add the 6 to your 1,4 and 5, you'll have another zillion songs
    you can play.  Add the 2 to that, then you'll have even more.
    
    With A,D,E and C what you have is 1,4 and 5 in key of A.  Here's why:
    
    Key of A is A=1, B=2, C#=3, D=4, E=5, F#=6, G#=7
    
    The C is out of key (strictly speaking) relative to the A,D and E.
    
    So right now you can play a lot of songs if they're in key of A.
    
    I would say, If you learn the G and F next, you get a zillion more to
    play.  Also, learn an F# minor, B minor, A minor, and D minor and then
    you'll have all the 1,6,2,5,1 songs in two of the 12 keys as well.
    
    If you learn barre chords after that, then you essentially have all the
    keys so you instantly have the other songs you can play.
    
    That's a lot for starters, I know, but it's something to think about.
    
    You'll have fun,
    Will

    Eh?
    
    You're confusing me now!  I understand what a key is, but I don't
    understand what a dimished chord is, and I'm not too sure on minor
    chords.  I do understand the numbering scheme for the different keys,
    but it'll take me ages to remember it all.
    
    I learnt G this weekend and have a great sounding sequence - C (1 bar),
    G (1 bar), d (1 bar) & Em (1 bar).  But the top string gets under my
    nail when I try to play the G.  I'll keep trying the G until I have it
    sussed, but I reckon it'll take 2 weeks at 2-3 hours a night to have it
    perfected.
    
    
    matty

    Gee, I'm sorry for blabbering on like that.  I just got carried away
    writing.  
    
    As far as the minor chords go, maybe the best way to understand it is
    just to hear it and worry about theory later (if ever).  Play an E and
    then play an Em and hear the difference.  One sounds (to me at least)
    sadder, more meloncholy than the other.  That's minor.
    
    Diminished chords are sort of the same way, just more of it.
    
    If you want, I could write up an explaination of that stuff, but I hate
    to cloud the issue any more (again).
    
    Sorry for the confusion,
    Will

    Will (keep talking)
    
    I understand about monor chords sounding sadder.  But what about G, G6,
    G7.  What do the numbers mean?
    
    
    matty

    >I understand about monor chords sounding sadder.  But what about G, G6,
    >G7.  What do the numbers mean?
    
    Well, when you just say "G" chord, the following is assumed:
    
    o The chord tonality is major
    o The chords is a triad, with a doubling at the octave and/or fifths
    
    A G major chord is spelled G, B, D...the 1st, 3rd, and 5th notes of
                               1  3  5
    a G major scale.
    
    Most drop 2 & 4 voicings will look like this on the guitar:
    
    G  D  G  B  D  G, or  G  B  D  G  D  G
    1  5  1  3  5  1      1  3  5  1  5  1
    
    
    >But what about G, G6, G7.  What do the numbers mean?
    
    Well, the "numbers" refer to the scale degrees from the G major scale
    will be added to the basic triad voicing (1,3,5).  
    
    G6 will look like this:
    
    G  B  D + E
    1  3  5   6
    
    G7 referes to the "Dominant" chord (commonly known as the V7 [five
    seven]).  The 7th degree for all Dominant chords is a flatted 7th.
    The chord would be spelled like this:
    
    G  B  D + F
    1  3  5  b7
    
    F is a flat 7 in G because the key of G major has an F# natural to that
    key.
    
    If the harmony wanted the un-altered 7th degree from the G major, they
    would refer to it as a G major7:
    
    G  B  D + F#
    1  3  5   7
    
    Hope this clears some things up.  There's a lot more to this chord
    spelling stuff, but first abosorb the avove before inquiring about
    "more complex" altered chords.
    
    Cheers,
    Buck
    

    re .39, .40
    
    don't listen to Buck, man, he went to Berklee. Listen to Nigel
    Tufnel. G6 means play the G chord 6 times,...,G13 means play it 
    13 times, etc. Anybody who plays all those fancy chords is 
    probably a techno-dweeb anyways
    
    mega :-)

    
    RE:-.1
    
    Agagagagagagagagagaga!!!!
    
    This guy is killing me!
    
    J.
    

    It sounded like your interest was piqued, so I wrote up the following. 
    Buck's explanation was dead on, I thought I might add the build up that
    would come before that, the background.  If this stuff seems over
    technical, I've found it comes in handy when:
    
    You're standing in front of a hundred people who are collectively
    paying you and your buddies $100 a piece to be there and a guy walks up
    to the keyboard player and says "Gee, can you play this one from the
    blah blah blah?"  Your pal there thinks a minute and "Oh, sure!"  He
    reaches over into his song note books that look like the VMS doc set,
    whips out the sheet, and says to the rest of the band, "Okay.  This is
    1,4,2,5,1 with a chromatic section walking down in the second chorus,
    3rd chorus is stop time, let's do it now.  One, Two, Three, ..."  And
    you've never layed eyes on the song before!  
    
    What the theory is good for mostly is communication.  I may have gotten
    carried away again, sorry it this is more confusing, but I think you
    may find it interesting.
    
    So I guess here's where it starts:
    
    
    
    
                  
    
    
Most (almost all) of the music we (the Western world) are familier with is 
written with a system of 12 notes, or tones, per octave.  This 12 tone 
scale is called the Chromatic scale.

Curiously, the notes in this twelve tone aren't named directly, but are 
named around what is called a Major Scale.  Most music is written in what 
is called a Key.  The Key denotes what Major (or Minor) scale the music is 
built around.  It is Key of C that the notes are named around.

A major scale does not contain all 12 tones.  It contains only 7, so some 
spacing must be defined to decide which notes are left out of the scale.  
This spacing is built around whole steps and half steps.  A half step is 
the space between any two notes in the Chromatic Scale.  A whole step is 
two half steps.  Each fret on a guitar is a half step.

The spacing between the notes in a Major scale is the following:

whole step,
whole step,
half step,
whole step,
whole step,
whole step,
half step.

Now, the Key that someone decided to name the notes around is key of C.  
The names of the notes in key of C are C,D,E,F,G,A,B.

Looking back at the spacing above, you can see that there is a note in 
between C and D, because the spacing between the 1st and 2nd notes is a 
whole step.  So what's there?  That note can be called one of two names, 
either C# (C sharp) or Db (D flat).  From this, we can generate the names 
of all the 12 tones in the Chromatic Scale.  They are:

C
C# (Db)
D
D# (Eb)
E
F
F# (Gb)
G
G# (Ab)
A
A# (Bb)
B
...we're back at C now.


Now, there are names given to intervals of different sizes between notes.
They are:

1 half step	Minor 2nd
2 half steps	Major 2nd
3 		Minor 3rd
4		Major 3rd
5		Perfect 4th
6		Augmented 4th (or Diminished 5th)
7		Perfect 5th
8		Minor 6th
9		Major 6th
10		Minor 7th
11		Major 7th
12		I forget the notation here


This brings up two questions (only two?).  Why sharps *and* flats, and what 
do you do if you want the Major scale to start on a different note?

Well, to start the scale on a diffenent note, you just use the in between 
notes, the sharps and flats, to get the right spacing.  The way you decide 
whether to use the sharp name for the note of the flat name works like
this: 

If you start at C and go DOWN a Perfect 5th you get to F.  If you generate 
the Major scale starting there, you'll see you need to use Bb (A#) to get 
the right spacing.  As you walk up the scale you're constructing you 
already use A and encounter the spacing problem at B.  It's too high.  So 
you Flat the note to make the spacing right and it's known after that Bb.

So, Key of F has one flat, Bb.

If you start at C and go UP a Perfect 5th you get to G.  Doing the same 
thing as before you encounter the spacing problem at F.  It's too low, so 
you Sharp it and it's called F# (not Gb) in the Key of G.

If you keep going DOWN by Perfect 5th's, continuing from F, you get Bb, Eb, 
Ab, ..., and you get another Flat on each one.

If you keep going UP by Perfect 5th's, continuing from G, you get D, A, E, 
... and you get another Sharp on each one.

The keys generated by going Down all use flats it turns out, and the ones 
from going up all use Sharps.  They eventually meet where (if I remember 
right) the key with 5 sharps is also written with 7 flats, the key with 6 
flats is the same as 6 sharps, etc.


The basic chords are constructed in their simplest form as triads (three
notes).  The basic chords are Major, Minor, Diminished, and Augmented.  
They are contructed using spacings just like a scale.

The spacing between the notes of a Major chord is Major 3rd, Minor 3rd.
The spacing between the notes of a Minor chord is Minor 3rd, Major 3rd.
The spacing between the notes of a Diminished chord is Minor 3rd, Minor 3rd.
The spacing between the notes of a Augmented chord is Major 3rd, Major 3rd.

For example, to make a C Major chord, start with a C, go up a M3 (Major 3rd
) to E, then up a m3 (Minor 3rd) to G.  The notes are C,E,G.

When you stick to only using the notes in a given key, you'll see that you 
can't always choose to go up a M3 or m3.  The key forces one or the other.  
It will always be a third, but the key decides whether the third is Major 
or Minor.

For example, starting on D in key of C, if I try to build a Major chord by 
going up a M3, I go "out" of key and have to use F#.  That tells me that D 
Major chord is not "in" key of C.

Continuing this you'll find that the chords that are in key of C are C (
implying Major), Dm (minor), Em, F, G, Am, B Diminished.

Now if you take the notes in *any* Major key and number them 1 through 7, 
you'll see that the chords for 1,4 and 5 are Major, 2,3 and 6 are Minor, 
and 7 is Diminished.

Also chords can be inverted (usually are).  Like instead of using the C,E 
and G for a C chord, you can put the C an octave higher and use E,G and C. 
You can move the notes around by octaves to get different sounding versions 
of the same chord.  This changes what's called the voicing of the chord.

Chords with numbers on them, like G7, are created by using the basic chord
and adding the interval specified in the name to the chord.  So this would
be a G Major chord with the 7th added.  In key of C, G7 has a Minor 7th in
it (just count the half steps fro G to A).  In key of C, if I try to make a
C7, it comes out being what is written as CMaj7 because the 7th from C is a
Major 7th (B).  They write it Maj7 to distinguish.  Curiously, (to me, 
anyway) in, say, Em7 the 'm' for Minor refers to the Minor basic chord not 
the Minor 7th.

For bigger intervals, continue up an octave.  Like, from C, in key of C, a 
9th is D an octave up.  The 11th is F, the 13th is A.

So for example, in key of C, a C9b5 is a C Major chord, flat the 5th and 
add the 7th and 9th.  You get C,E,Gb,B,D.
    

    Re: -1
    
    Thanks for entering that!  The first 100 lines or so was my lesson last
    week.  I started to lose you a little after that.  I'll be alright
    after I read it a couple times. :-)
    
    Mike

    I understood which notes were which, and I know the jey of C.  But the
    rest is way over my head.  It's like Maths lessons used to be - you
    wouldn't understand a thing, and then click, you're right on top of the
    situation.  I can't wait for the click!  I guess I'll have to get a
    hard copy of your note and try to figure it bit by bit.
    
    When I read your note I got so far and then just RETURNed through the
    lot, only taking a glance.  I thought to my self `no way am I ever
    gunna understand that!'.  But then I thought, only 2 months back I was
    watching my uncle play `Peggy Sue'.  He was trying to explain, but I
    felt the same as I did when I read that note.  But now I can play about
    10 songs no problem, so there is hope.
    
    I'm thinking about taking guitar lessons - would you agree that this
    would be a good move?
    
    thanks for all the input
    
    
    matty

    re -1
    
    Yeah, I think it is a lot like math.  As the first parts sinks in more
    thoroughly, the next piece will start to clarify.
    
    I wouldn't worry about it.  Print it out, (or buy a theory book) and
    relax, take it a little at a time.  Enjoy the playing, think about it a
    little, play a little more, think a little more, it'll all come
    together in time.
    
    It's fun stuff!
    
    Will

    re .45
    
    As pretty much a beginner myself (or very much a beginner, depends on
    how you look at it) I spent lots of time trying to teach myself for two
    years before finding the right teacher and starting lessons.  Result is
    I've learned more in the last six months than I did in the previous two
    years.  I heartily recommend lessons, I go for an hour each week -- its
    a little pricey but it gives me time to work on stuff with the
    instructor 'til I get it right and have time for both theory and
    technique.
    
    About 5 years of this and I'll make up for my 15 years as a drummer.
    ;-)
    
    - Evan
    

	I too hacked around for 2 years without lessons, learning chords
	and earing out riffs, doing scales, etc. I started lessons just
	over 2 months ago and I've got into jazz II-V-I's, old-time stuff
	from the 20's and 30's, early R&B and all over the place in no time
	flat. This woulda taken years for me to stumble into alone.

	Another plus - my current teacher is rock-ignorant, so all of the
	things he gives me to work on are from 1900-1955 and it puts a
	really fresh flavor in my rock playing.

	I go 1/2 hour per week but will probably cut back cuz I like to
	spend more time playing 12 bar for my soul and learning things
	offa CD.

	Chaly Be Bi Bicky Bi Bo

    How do you get that sound, like on the Stone Roses' `Fools Gold and
    `Elephant Stone'?  It is a 70's sound, but I wasn't around then (well
    only a kid), so I don't know any older records with this particular
    sound.
    
    
    matty

    
    re: .25
    
    	I often get frustrated and get mind lock when someone (like Steve)
    	says, "Hey, you can play that same riff over here (ie, higher or
    	lower on the neck)".  My problem is that I need to learn where all
    	the notes on the neck are.  Is there a preferred method or approach
    	for learning them to make it a little easier?
    
    -pat

    I think one thing that you could do that might help is try and make
    sure that when you play you think "notes" and not "finger patterns".
    
    I am almost always thinking notes, but sometimes I "transpose".
    That is, if the key is Bb, I'll "think" in C but remember to always
    shift two frets down.
    
    	db

	Draw a picture of the neck and write down the names of the
	notes in the right places.

	also: practice sight reading.

	that's like touch feeling, huh?

    
    I can relate to the "draw the neck with the notes" idea.  I once saw
    a poster that had all the notes, keys, etc, on it.  Anybody else seen
    it?  

Pat, your killin' me !  Play guitar for one year and say "I just wanna know
where all the notes are on the fret board"

Agagagagagagagaaaa... Don't we ALL !

Next, you'll *jusst* wanna be able to burn like Yngwie too eh ?

;)

re: .-1

   Yeah, I had one that came with _The Complete Guitar Scale Manual_ that
   I got when I was studying classical, but I can no longer find it.  (It's
   probably still taped to the wall of the room I had when I was 17...  :-))

   I know this because I went looking for it the other day.  It would still
   be a valuable tool.

   -- Sam (amazed at the stuff one can forget over time...)

    re .-1 A source
    
    We could all meet there and check it out!! ;^)
    
    		Couldn't resist !!!
    

	The very act of creating one of your own is pretty powerful
	medicine. I was reading an interview with Vito Bratta where
	he said that one of the best things he ever did for himself
	was create his own chord dictionary from scratch....

    RE:  Coop's Aagagagagaga....
    
    It's feasible to know all the notes on each string, I knew 'em in my
    first year, no biggie, really!  Pat, make your own map by starting with
    the open string note, and then 1st fret, 2nd fret, etc.  This will help
    you learn them and also learn where they "start over". It's EASY!!
    
    Steve

    Pat, I have a similar poster in my office.  I'll copy it and send it to
    you.
    
    I've memorized all the notes on the low E and A strings from using bar
    chords.  Still working on the rest.
    
    Sounds like Pat and I are in the same boat.  I've been working on this
    out of frustration: 
    
    - tired of chord banging and I want to be able to play the solos I'm 
        hearing.
    - also trying to figure out how to play a scale around a chord.
    - I'm also looking for a teacher to help me progress since I feel I've
      outgrown my current one.  My current teacher and I have vastly
      different musical tastes too.
    
    Mike

    
    
    	Didn't somone produce a map of the guitar map in 'sixel' format
    somwhere in this conference....I was looking for it my self & couldn't
    find it.  Any one remember where it is?
    
    Cheers
    		Pete.

>        <<< Note 1671.61 by CMBOOT::EVANS "if you don't C# you'll Bb" >>>
>                       -< It's in here...Somewhere!!!! >-
>    
>    	Didn't somone produce a map of the guitar map in 'sixel' format
>    somwhere in this conference....I was looking for it my self & couldn't
>    find it.  Any one remember where it is?

        Yes, someone did do a guitar map in this conference.  I don't
     know where it is right off hand but I do have a copy of it I can
     mail to you or put back in here if anyone wants it.

        Vicki

I've got Postscript files with 'Neck Maps' and different scales and such.
Someone here in the conference gave them to me... I forgot who.

Anyhow, copy them from BIT::*.ps

jc

                                          
    Harmonic intervals helped me learn all the notes on the neck - coz
    once you know how it works its dead easy to relate to - also helps
    for improvising.
                            
    In my Time Manager I have a little section with a neck diagram, 
    all the major scales (with their relative minor scales) and all 
    the notes on staves - so if I get stuck on a train or something, 
    I study 8^).
    
    Cheers,
    -Tony

No ps files in BIT::SYS$SPECIFIC:[DECNET].

> No ps files in BIT::SYS$SPECIFIC:[DECNET].

Yeah, me too! I did a directory and they were listed. But when I tried to copy 
them, I got 'file not found'......

Alan S.

    Try it again...
    I just did and it worked for me.
    
    jc

    re: .62
    
    Hi Vicki.  I'd like a copy please.
    
    Thanks,
    -pat

	Got 'em.

	ccb

    
    Well, action talks and bullsh#t walks.  I finally got off my butt and
    signed up for lessons.  I don't know why, but I'm nervous about it.
    The guy's name is Mark Swicegood (sp?) and I *think* I once saw him
    in GP in the New Talent Spotlight section.  I think he's a metal-head,
    but Dandrea and Cooper say he can wail the blues too.  I start
    tomorrow.
    
    yikes!
    -pat

    Good for you !  Sure, Mark can burn but he's got a lot of talent. 
    Speed kills, remember that .... 8^)
    
    
    
    					Scary

Yeah, Mark was in the New Talent Spotlight about 1.5 years ago.
I'll guess that his main influences are JS Bach, Yngwie, Chastain,
and other speedie-burners.  His last band 'Savitar' was a power trio
that did lots of originals and a lot of Yngwie and Metallica.
Mark is classically trained.  It's obvious.

Most importantly, he KNOWS the fret board.  I used to play with one of 
his students and was blown away that the kid had only played for 1 year,
cuz he was SO quick.  Another TABlature-puke though.  Ack ! 

jc (Who is also gonna sign up to study under Mark)

re: Speed Kills...

I want to be dead.

Greg

    Thanks JC, I got a copy of the postscript neck maps also...
    
    Rj_who_has_been_saying_for_years_that_he_was_going_to_make_1

    What's the order that I'm suposed to learn in?
    
    ie. should it be;
    
    3 chords, some solos, more chords, string bending.
    
    What I mean is, is it time for me to learn string bending?
    
    
    matty

	I would suggest starting with method package. Look for one that
	offers the level 1, 2, 3 kind of stuff to get your sight chops
	moving but also has the parallel enrichment stuff. Like the book
	shows you notes on the forth string and then sends you off to
	another book to play some dorky melody in another book. A couple
	of method publishers (notably Hal Leonard) also have beginning
	level rock stuff that give you the blues based licks right up
	front.

	The basic thing for me has been to set a long term goal (like -
	know enough about the instrument to play the gunk that my cat
	has been beaming at me telepathically) and then establish various
	short term goals (play thru is ugly ole book) and then focus you
	practices to hit your goals.

	My experience has been that I'm feeling the best about my playing
	when I work methodically and nail down pieces of technique one
	chunk at a time.


	OH - if you know what whole & half tones are then your ready to bend.

I don't think it's crucial that you learn in some specific order.  I think it's
kind of personal what will work best for you.

I think one good method is to learn enough to learn a certain song (pick a 
relatively easy one that's new to you), then learn all the parts to it.  This
gives you a "reward" because you see an accomplishment.

Al Dimeola recommends learning chords first, then scales, then arpeggios in his
guitar book.

Greg

    Yeah,  I think I've got to the stage where I can play a few songs right
    through and sing along too, but I'm getting bored practicing on my own. 
    I just spent 450 pounds (well last month) on a guitar and practice amp,
    but I've got nowhere to record and no one to practice with, so I'm
    grinding to a halt.  And my theory books just pi$$ me off.
    
    
    
    matty

    Matty,
    
    Find someone to jam with. You won't believe how much faster you will
    progress by playing with other guitarists.  There's just gotta be
    someone in your area....good luck!
    
    Steve

	Get together with other people. They aint even got to be guitar
	players.... the mere act of attempting to coordinate the noises
	is a learning experience

    
    re:.66
    
    I'm having probs with the .ps files still, I can see em' but can't copy
    em' ( error opening BIT::..etc RMS-E-FNF file not found)
    
    I'm on cmotec:: in the UK, would some kind person mail me a set or
    (even better) tell me how I can get around this.
    
    Cheers
    		Pete.
    
                  

    I'm having some problems with copying the postscript files as well,
    I get an "invalid login information at remote node" message.  If
    someone who can get at them would mail a set to me at my workstation
    (BRUTH::BAUER), I'd sure appreciate it.
    
    - Evan (who knows the notes on frets 0 to 5 but hopes to get out of 2nd
    position someday)