Conference napalm::guitar

    I heard the SWR and liked it...as far as hartke cabs.....(I know
    I'll get static for this !  *:^b ) I haven't been really impressed-
    for the reason that it just doesn't sound natural to me........IMHO
    Ampeg has released a new amp (svt240) 200watt combo w/ 2x10 and
    a tweeter; dont rule out peavey's databass either!!! 400 watt 1x15
    combo that really kicks some butt-I'm thinking about this one meself!!
    I f you go with the swr;try both cabinets and also a boogie 1x15
    EV and maybe buy the top you want and go on a roadtrip to your favorite
    stores and demo cabinets....probably the best move!!!!
    Good Luck(and I wish I was getting your tax check-Wanna swap???)
    -Bill #:^b 
    

    
    Re: .0
    
    Hopefully Rick C. will be here soon.  He mentioned one disadvantage of
    the SWR: It really needs to be rack mounted.  Nothing wrong with that,
    except that it kicks the weight way up since you now have to pick up
    the rack, too.  If you were planning on racking anyway, it's a wash.
    
    Check out note #104 as well, it discusses a few other big-wattage
    heads, including AMP, Duncan and GK.  Have fun.  Pick up some earplugs
    when you get the head  8^)  8^)  8^)  8^).
    
    Re: .1
    
    Doesn't KH make bass rigs?  8^)  8^)  8^)  8^)
    
    
    							Brian

    First I want to go on record as a Peavy DATABASS supporter.
    RnR's Bassist has one, and that thing kicks butt like a full SVT
    stack !  Whoa !  All in a little package.  I'm also an advocate
    of GK's bass amps (and guitar amps too).. But the DATAbass kicks
    the RB800s butt.
    
    One small nit...
    
    Brian, why do you think that a rack mounted amp weighs more than
    a combo or head ?  If you buy a head it's gotta go in a box right?  
    If you buy a combo, you gotta have a bigger box to hold a heavy
    speaker...
    
    Now, I had an older wooden rack covered with Ozite that was 6space.
    That damn thing weighed 45 lbs all by itself !  I just replaced
    it today with a ozite covered 4space Hybrid rack that only weighs
    17lbs.  So, my total rack (sp1000 and ADAMP1) will only weigh 40lbs.
    thats not so bad for 125wpc stereo rig.
                                           
    Just picking nits...
    
    jc (Rack Puke)

	BTW, if you're anywhere near Worcester, MA, I think MacDuff's has a
used SWR bass amp.  don't know the price, though.

	Dan

    I've had an SM-400 for a little under a year now (hey, am I one of
    those notable people you referred to :-).

    I assume you've looked into it and are familiar with the features.
    It's a nice amp, great sound and a lot of flexibility in the eq.
    When I went shopping for a bass amp, I had it narrowed down to
    three: the Mesa 400, SWR, and AMP.  Soundwise and pricewise,
    the SWR fell right in the middle.  I think the Mesa is a little
    better sounding amp, but it's more expensive, it weighs more, and
    there's the potential expense/worry of six power tubes to deal with.
    The "AMP" doesn't sound as good (imo) and was cheaper.  Weight was
    an important consideration for me; I picked the SWR because it was the
    best sounding next to the Mesa and it was lighter.  The tube preamp
    definitely gives it a warmer, fatter sound than any full solid state
    amp I've tried.  I didn't care for the sound of the GKs at all.

    Gripe 1: as Brian mentioned, the SWR is too fragile to sit by
    itself.  The people at SWR admit that it was designed to be used
    in a rack.  Given the addition of a good road rack, what was a great
    lightweight amp at about 20 lbs. becomes mildly annoying at about
    35 lbs.  I wish they had offered a non-rack version with a sturdier
    metal case and no protruding jacks, a la the AMP.  Btw, I have seen
    people using this head without a rack, but wouldn't recommend it.

    Gripe 2: the SWR has two separate power amps.  Each power section
    is rated at 200w into 4 ohms, not 8.  The people at SWR designed this
    head to work best with their own Goliath cabs which are (guess what)
    4 ohms each.  If you don't want to use their cabs, and you've got
    normal 8 ohm cabs instead (like me), here's what happens:

	two 8 ohm cabs in stereo mode = 125w per side
	one 8 ohm cab in bridge mode = 400w (hope it's a big one)
	two 8 ohm cabs in bridge mode = 375w (amp current limits)

    Although the engineers at SWR say it's built to take it, current
    limiting the amp doesn't make me feel very comfortable.  However,
    in all fairness, I normally run two 8 ohm cabs in stereo mode, for
    a total of about 250w, and have never been lacking for power, even
    at outdoor gigs.

    Re cabs, I've tried both the Hartke and Goliath cabs and to my ears
    the Goliath sounds better.  The low end is fuller and better defined
    and the response of the cab across the whole range is more even.  Note
    that SWR designed the SM-400/Goliath system to especially handle 5 and
    6 string basses with a low B.  As such, the SM-400 reproduces frequencies
    below 40 Hz that could damage cabs not designed to handle them.  People
    I've spoken to at both SWR and Hartke mentioned several instances where
    an SWR head blew a Harke cab (although each had their own explanation
    as to why :-).

    /rick

    
    Some addenda to .5:
    
    The AMP (which I own) is *very* similar to the SWR, largely because the
    guys who run the two companies used to be partners.  The big diff is
    that AMP is *all* transistor, and is *not* stereo.  You get 400 watts full
    range into 4 ohms, but they do provide a crossover if you want to add
    a second amp for biamping.  Biamping was of no interest to me, and the
    AMP cost me $200 less than the SWR, so I grabbed it.  Note 104.? has a
    full review on it.  FWIW, if you call up *Hartke*, they recommend the AMP
    as the best head available for use with *their* cabs, and will dissuade
    you from SWR as Rick mentioned.    
        
    The point I made about the rack was this: the AMP and SWR heads, like
    the GKs, are very small and light.  I do carry mine around in a small
    vinyl suitcase stuffed with foam (mostly to keep it from getting
    scratched up, plus I stuff all my cords and spare fuses into the bag),
    and it's *still* far lighter than most non-rack bass amp heads.  This
    was a *major* factor for me.  The head *can* be racked if it makes
    sense some time in the future but it's perfectly adequate using the
    head as is.  The SWR, for instance, has vents on top....or "beer intake
    ports" as I like to refer to them.  8^)  8^) The SWR is a *great* amp,
    and I'll admit the tube front end does give a warmer tone than I get
    (Rick and I use the same type of cabs and when he was shopping he
    checked out my head a couple of times at length before going for the
    SWR).  *If* I was going rack, was interested in biamping or stereo, and
    had the extra 200 smackers, the SWR would have won out over the AMP.
    
    FWIW, those of you who are saying "what do I need 400 watts for", the
    SM-200 is the same amp as the SM-400 but with only a single 200W power
    stage, and the Groove Tubes Bass Preamp is the same front end, minus
    the power amps if you want to go with separates (SWR also makes the GT
    guitar preamp).
    
    As far as the low frequency stuff, it's true.  The AMP people added a
    low-cut filter to their amp to cut out signals below 25 Hz.  They found
    that many basses had body resonances in the 10-20 Hz range which could
    damage speakers at high volumes due to low frequency feedback.  In
    addition they added relays to the speaker outs to prevent power on/off
    thumps from getting to the output (I think SWR does this, too, I know
    GK *doesn't*....good way to blow drivers).
    
    A third thing, if you're considering biamping with Hartkes, the Hartke
    folks claim that the 4-10 cab actually goes *lower* than the 1-15.  So
    as far as they're concerned, unless you like the tonality of the 15
    over the 10s, there is no advantage in the low end to having a
    1-15/4-10 setup over two 4-10s when biamping.  
    
    								Brian

       I was looking at my SWR catalog and wanted to clarify the impedance 
    ratings for both thier Goliath and Goliath Jr. cabs. The Goliath is 
    a 4x10/Tweeter rated at 8 Ohms. Safe excursion limits are 260 Watts
    continuous sine @32 Hz, 48V in at 8 Ohms.
       The Goliath Jr. is 2x10/tweeter @ 4 Ohms, 300 Watts RMS Continuous.

    
    "safe excursion limits @32 Hz".......geez wotta cool spec.  I gotta
    talk to the boys at the next gig and check out what our excursion
    limits are.....
    
    						Brian

    My mistake, I was led to believe that the Goliath 4x10 was
    rated at 4 ohms (not 8) by someone at the factory; it could
    be I just misunderstood.

    So it looks like the only way to get a full 400w out of the
    beast is to use 2 of their 4x10s and/or one 2x10 on each channel.

    Both AMP and Mesa are easier to configure for full power.
        
    /rick

    Although this is slightly off the topic, I also don't want to
    experience financial damage in setting up my own bass rig: neither
    Hartke nor Goliath offer an 18" speaker - is this because the 18"
    is not well suited ?  I just had a music store salesman rave about
    how you can "feel the punch" with the 18s...and have been price
    shopping, but fortunately haven't put any money down.  I realize
    that sound is a matter of taste, but are there some practical reasons
    as to why 18" speakers don't work out well for bass amplification
    or am just going to have to "experiment" ??
    

The Hartke speakers sure sounded great when I saw little feat this last summer
, lots or presence and punch...

dbi

    Re;10
    
       I'm not shure why they don't have any 18" cabs, that's one of the
    first things I noticed. Possibly, It could have to do with the way 
    the cabinets are tuned, I might be more efficient to move the same
    amount of air with 4x10's or 1x15 than it would be for 1x18 (this is
    my guess). An 18" might be less efficient because the cone size.
       I don't think there are any really bad problems with having 18('s)
    in a bass system, I would imagine that the 18's have thier own special
    tone; and it would be a matter of taste in selecting the sound.
    
    (Correct me if I'm wrong.)
    
    John

    
    It probably has more to do with cabinet size.  An 18" speaker is *big*.
    Most modern tuned cabs are going for compactness.  The idea of using
    4-10" is to get the enhanced midrange possible with the smaller driver
    but still having sufficient cone area to push lots of air.  
    
    Anyone who ever tried those old Acoustic folded horn cabs knows they
    are very efficient but had really poor upper midrange response.  Not
    to mention they were massive.  

    After many months, I have finally had a chance to audition an SWR
    Redhead combo amp.  An impressive package: tube preamp, 240 watt
    transistor power amp, and a "half Goliath" cabinet (2-10 plus tweeter)
    in one box.
    
    The good part: it sounds GREAT.  Solid bottom end, incredible headroom,
    really dynamic sound.  Pretty small, has space for one rack-mount
    effect built in (an idea others should pick up on) and a snap-on wooden
    cover that protects the speakers and control panel when in transit. 
    The aural "enhancer" is nice if you like that sort of "processed" tone,
    you get all the goodies you want for roadwork, like a tuner output
    that's live at all times, XLR and 1/4" direct outs, effects loop with a
    return control, clip LEDs for both the preamp and power amp. You can
    even turn off the speakers from the front panel if you are using
    headphones or want to use just the preamp (such as in a recording
    situation). 
    
    The bad part is that  SWR left off the following features found on their
    heads: no crossover(minor nit), no compressor/limiter (BIG nit), only
    one band of mid EQ (vs. four).  And the price....$1300 at EUW, I got a
    mail order quote of just under $1100, not counting the shipping. 
    
    Despite the stiff price, I would recommend bassists try this out just
    to experience what is possible in such a small package.  For almost
    anything except loud rock, this amp would be just the ticket....and for
    loud rock, just add a Goliath 4-10 cab and you're all set!

       I would have probably tried the Redhead if I hadn't had my mind set
    on the SM400/Goliath set up. So Brian, did you just check it out or 
    are you thinking of buying one?
       I'm still learning to use my setup, and haven't even touched the 
    Biamping option on it yet - because so far... it sounds great. I had
    picked up the last of the set-up in mid June.
       One note...They don't like to give out schematics for there
    equipment. I haven't called them yet, but will be soon. I have this 
    feeling that I want to have a little more than just a black box to
    look at.
    
    John

    Re: .15
    
    Put it this way, if I got into a band next week that was making some
    real $$ I'd probably think about buying one.  More realistically, what
    it offers over my AMP/EAW rig is basically a single package, instead of
    a head and cab (easier to set up and break down) but the sonic
    improvement is probably marginal.  If it had been out on the market
    when I plunked my cash down two years ago, I might be an SWR owner
    today instead of being a stubborn AMP lover  8^)  8^)  8^)   I should
    have listened to Rick Calcagni.....

    I almost went a similar route, nearly bought a Marshall 25/50
    silver combo, but it was sold. So here I ended up with a huge head,
    massive 4x12, heavy 2x12, and many times I think I would have been
    better off with the combo. I can't even unload the junk because I made
    it. What a boner. I should've taken up the 'cello.

    I bought a Readhead, but it was too heavy and I was always swearing
    when I got to the double doors at all the clubs so I traded it in at 
    "House of Guitars" here in Rochester, NY and got a SM-400 and a goliath
    Jr. so now I have 18+46 lbs. instead of 75 lbs. 

      I recently called SWR for a set of scematics for my SM-400 head.
    If anyone needs copies, send me mail at GIAMEM::DERRICO. The copy
    that I have is ok. I have drawn in some things that were either
    cut off, or probably should be on the schematics. There are no
    E-Numbers, R, or C- Numbers for desiginations for the parts.
      It's debug_by_braille...
    
    John

    Anybody had a chance to try out a Hartke 2000?
    Looks like a good deal for under $500.
    
    Rick

    Haven't tried the 2000 but did try the 7000 which has the same pre-amp
    and was underimpressed.  I guess I expected to be blown away.  The tube
    section was a letdown, it sounded thin next to the solid state section,
    sort of the opposite of what I would expect. 
    
    Like the SWR heads, they need to be racked (inlike the GK heads) if
    that is a consideration. 
    
    If you're wondering how they got the price so low, they don't build the
    amps in the US, they are made in Korea.
    
    							Brian 

    I'm a big Trace Elliot fan, but I've done the SWR thing as well.
    I used to think SWR was the bee's knees. That was before I
    owned SWR stuff, and then contrasted it with Trace Elliot.
    No contest.
    
    Currently, I own an SWR 4x10 Goliath II and a Big Ben 18"
    subwoofer for my bass. The Goliath II has given me trouble
    since I bought it. Now, to be perfectly honest, my rig did
    get struck by lightning (no kidding), which took out my
    GK800 head, which was attached to the SWR cabinets... this
    might have something to do with it. But, in truth, I've
    heard that there's a lot of quality control problems with
    the SWR cabs. After trying the GK cabs, the SWRs are going
    up for sale.
    
    Ever since I've gotten the SWR Goliath II, there has been
    a buzz in two of the drivers. For the life of me, I can't
    isolate which driver... it seems to move as I disconnect
    and reconnect individual drivers. It's probably a problem
    in the cross-over. But you would think that by the third
    trip to EU Wurlitzer's repair shop, some concern might be
    in order. I recently sent it in again (this is the third
    visit) with instructions that I don't want it back until its
    100% right. Mostly, I want to make sure the thing sounds
    the way it's supposed to before I sell it. I've heard that
    other owners of SWR cabs are having similar problems, and
    I really don't expect to pay the money asked for an SWR
    cab if it's not going to sound right.
    
    I had another (older) SWR 4x10 for a while which I sold
    soon after getting this new one. I was planning on using
    4 cabinets in my setup, but then the group I was planning
    on using it in fizzled and 4 cabinets was overkill for my
    jazz gigs. The other cabinet was solid and sounded good...
    this new one is "post-Eden" and obviously, things have
    gone way downhill since Eden left the SWR fold.
    
    The 18" driver is OK, but like most 18" drivers, completely
    lacks high end. Since the 18" is the only cab that's
    currently working, my rig sounds like $&#@.
    
    On the other hand, I tried a Trace 4x10 and a 1x18 in a
    store and it sounded sweet! I even tried the 1x18 by
    itself (in case I didn't feel like lugging the considerably
    heavier 4x10 to rehearsal) and it actually sounded decent!
    I was quite surprised!
    
    As for SWR amps... always sounded muddy to me. Even the combos.
    I had a chance to pick up one of their valve heads once
    for something like 30% of retail, and still passed. A
    friend who gets all kinds of equipment for evaluation (hoping
    that he'll endorse it) got one of these and wasn't impressed,
    but knew I had other SWR stuff and thought I might like it.
    So, he asked me if I wanted it, but after trying it I
    begged off. In fact, he ended up sending it back, because
    even at that ridiculous price, he couldn't unload it.
    
    -b

    >           After trying the GK cabs, the SWRs are going
    >up for sale.
    
    I meant Trace Elliot cabs here, not GK cabs.
    
    -b

    
    
      Thanx for the info. My bass player is in the process of upgrading 
    and I recommended he checked out either Trace, SWR, or Ampeg. 
    He is currently using a Peavey Mark 8 head and wants to go for
    a top end amp. Because he is good friends with the Kaman distributor
    (which carries Trace, Ovation, Hamer, KMD) he is leaning toward
    a Trace Elliot RAH350-SMX rack amp. It has the GP12SMX preamp and
    a 350 watt mono power amp. 
      I'll print this topic out for him to make him feel better about his
    purchase.
    

    I have a Trace Elliot GP12SMX and I love the thing. I also have
    a separate PAS600 power amp, which replaced a Bryston 4B in
    my rig. I prefer the sound of the TE amplifier, even over the
    Bryston (besides, I have better use for the Bryston powering
    the mains in my studio).
    
    In my opinion, no one is making better bass gear than Trace.
    The only other thing which comes even close is the SVT II,
    which is a great setup but a completely different animal from
    the Trace. If I was going for that Ampeg sound, I'd be all
    over the SVT II.
    
    Other than price, SWR is nowhere near the same class, and
    as I said before, I'm going to be replacing my SWR cabs
    with TE in the not-too-distant future.
    
    -b

    Hmmmm .... well, this seems to be the defacto SWR string, so here goes:
    
    Can anyone comment on the SWR Workingman series of combo amps? I took
    my current combo amp to play out the other night and it sounded like
    absolute crap ... kind of like a flatulant tuba might sound, if such a
    thing was possible. The Workingman's Twelve interests me because it is
    small and relatively light. I could concievably replace my little
    practice amp and the combo amp with one. They sound good in the store,
    but I'm wondering how it will sound with drums at club volume. Also,
    does the 12" speaker have the tesicular fortitude to work with a
    5-string bass?
    
    Any comments welcome ...
    
    Thanks ... Theo