Conference napalm::guitar

    Grovers are USA.
    Gotoh is Japanese, they have the smoothest feel and highest gear ratio.
    Unlike the grovers, you can wear thru the gold finish on Gotohs with a
    pencil eraser. They are the cheapest and I think they work the best.
    They are not attractive like the others. They are made out of cheep
    metaloids and plastics. The others are made of Old Fashioned Metal.
    Schaller cost more with the mark so high.
    

    Before you replace your tuners, try tightening the adjusting screws.

    If that Ibanez has the Velve-touch Tuning heads, I'd suggest seeing if
    you can replace them w/ the same machine heads.  These are very good
    machine heads, and you should have no trouble replacing them as they
    should just fit in the same way the old ones do.
    
    I've a 1979 Ibnez MC400 with those machine heads, and I've never
    had problems, they're still on the guitar..  A bit road weary,
    but still working fine.
    
    And also, (if they are the Velve-touch heads) there's a collar
    that you can tighten on the machine head.

    Thanks for the responses.

    My Ibanez does have the velve-touch tuning heads.  I'll try tightening
    them and see what that does.  

    If they still need replacing, I would like to stay with the Ibanez heads
    but I'm not too crazy about the almost-thick-as-an-atom gold finish. 
    My guitar's tuning heads have lost nearly all the gold plating -- as
    well as other parts of the guitar where the gold finish looks like it
    has oxidized.  
    
    Other than the cheap finish on the metal stuff, I do like the guitar.

    Kevin.
    

    If you can't tighten them let me stick my neck out and suggest the
    Schalleer M6. They cost the most, and will work real good. And the 
    plating should last OK. Or a new set of Ibanez. EIther one.

    Another thing to consider, if you decide to replace the tuners, is
    "locking" tuners. I know of two brands, Sperzel, and Paul Reed Smith.
    
    To my knowledge, Sperzel introduced the first locking tuners. They are
    now used on many off-the-rack guitars. Paul Reed Smith took the idea
    one step further, by including a built-in crank on each tuner, which
    folds out, and makes string changes a breeze. 
    
	Sperzel tuners have a hole in the string post, through which the
    string is passed. Under the tuner (on the backside of the headstock)
    there is a knurled screw which drives a pin up under the string. The
    results is that there is less than 1/2 turn of string around the post
    which leaves no room for slippage. These tuners have almost the same
    effect as a locking nut, without the hassles of allen screws, etc.
    
    	Sperzel tuners are available in black, stainless steel, or brass.
    They sell for about $50, which is a little higher than Schallers, but
    in my opinion they are worth it. I have a set on my Telecaster, and
    I do not regret buying them.
    
    	I believe you can also buy PRS tuners. I know for a fact that they
    sell their pickups separately, and I would expect they also sell tuners
    separately as well.
    
    	Good luck
    	Mark
    
    

	On the topic of gold plating....

	I've never seen anything that was gold plated on any guitar, from
	any manufacturer, that did not wear thru in a few places where
	they were handled a lot. Bridges & Tuning Keys seem to show it
	worse & In general, once worn off, it doesn't look very good.
	Unless you really like the look, I'd avoid gold plated hardware,
	or at least (on the tuning keys) get some that have plastic
	buttons on them, so you don't handle areas where you would wear 
	thru the gold plating.

	Fender was using epoxy coated Brass for some of it's hardware,
	and as long as the epoxy coating held up, it looked great. 

	I like the mini Shallers. I have them on the guitars I have that the
	tuning keys needed replacing & they are excellent.

								Jens

    RE: .6...
    
    	I'm not sure PRS was the first to use the "fold-out" tuning
    	machines.  Guitar Notes own Dave Clark had a beautiful LP Custom
    	with fold-out tuners.
    
    	joe.

    Thanks for the addition responses.

    I tried tightening the tuners on my Ibanez but it seems that they are
    tight as they can get.  So, it may be time for a new set.

    Are the sizes universal?  If I buy something other then the Ibanez
    tuner meant for my guitar, I really don't want to get into drilling new
    screw holes.  I compared the tuners on my Fender acoustic and Westone
    Electric (both of which have 'six-in-a-row') and they *looked*
    interchangeable; I didn't break out the micrometer, though.   

      
    Kb.
               

first off, are you having a 'problem' with tuning, or are you just concerned
that they feel too lose ?

Just curious,,,  My ibanez heads turn smooth, and easily, and yet, I
do not have any tuning problems.  Now compare that to my strat, and the
strat heads feel much 'tighter' but again, I bleive the 'feel' could
be attributed to the fact that they're just made better.  I suppose one would
have to see it to understand...

but realize lose may not mean bad.

Second.  The reason I suggested the Ibanez heads was for the same reason
you expressed concern on in your last note 

<<    Are the sizes universal?  If I buy something other then the Ibanez
<<    tuner meant for my guitar, I really don't want to get into drilling new
<<    screw holes.  I compared the tuners on my Fender acoustic and Westone
<<    Electric (both of which have 'six-in-a-row') and they *looked*
<<    interchangeable; I didn't break out the micrometer, though.   

It's very likely that some minor installation work will have to be done.

I doubt you'd haved to regrout the head stock as the machine heads are
basically sized within the tollerances of the holes bored in the headstock.

You mayhave to re-drill the mounting holes. Depending on the condition of
the guitar,(eg. Pristene, Mint, like new)  you may want to have it done 
by someone.  Let us know, we can probably recommend someone if you're in an 
local area to one of the many reputable luthiers.

I doubt the installation would add much more than $20 to the bill of replacing
them.

Regarding the Brass finish, hey, what you gonna do?  It happens to all
brass hardware, and personally, I dig the worn look.  It's like a
new pair of white sneakers,,, gotta break em in!

My Ibanez has 11 years of road on it, and even though it's in
decent condition, the shiny gold look is long gone.

Good luck.

    	Drilling peg holes implies using an electric drill of sorts
    which makes me real nervous. If you are going to enlarge the holes
    yourself look into a tapered wood reamer and do it by hand. I've
    seen an electric drill crack a head stock easily and hand reamers
    are cheap in a hardware store....
    
    
    							Rick
    

    
    re.10
    
    	Know what you mean....on my old LP custom the gold has worn off the
    pickups & the tuners but it sort of adds character to the instrument.
    
    Cheers
    		Pete.

    I hate gold plated hardware!  It always wears and looks absolutely
    horrid.  Chrome is much more durable, stays nice for years, AND costs
    less.  I personally think it looks better too.
    
    Greg

    Black chrome is cool too...
    
    jc

    My 85 baretta has a black floyd, and that can tend to wear and get rust.
    The black shallers don't. Back then the black was a 100 $option.
    	

    The life of gold plating can be greatly extended by wiping it off after
    using the guitar.
    
    I use chamois cloths, available in most auto supply stores, to clean
    the guitar completely before putting it away. It takes about a minute.
    Some of my guitars from the '60's still have most of their gold (and
    their finish!), despite heavy use. The ones I bought before I started
    doing this, or that were previously owned, have much more wear.
    
    Flannelette or an old t-shirt also works, but chamois (make sure its
    real, not artificial) works the best. Leave a piece in your guitar
    case(s) and make it a habit to use it always.
    
    Danny W.

    Correction, 
    The steel parts on the Floyd are rusting, 
    this means screws ( SWMac New!).
    The brass components are simply wearing.
    
    My hands don't sweat like they used to, actually not at all anymore.
    The wear is friction. 
    I like brass.