Conference napalm::guitar

    Wow, that's a pretty drastic thing to do to a Marshall cabinet.
    Oh well, what's done is done. I am assuming you constructed the
    new sides out of plywood, of the same thickness as the original
    sides. A few comments on modifying your cabinets... Make sure that 
    you heavily brace the new sides, seal the cabinet with something 
    like silicon caulking, and chamfer the edges with a router. Select 
    a router bit which will duplicate the chamfer on the rest of the 
    cabinet.
    
    I believe you are referring to "Ozite" carpeting. It is available
    in every color *except* black (charcoal grey, blue, brown, and green
    are the most common colors) from places like Grossman's lumber,
    Somerville Lumber, K-MART, etc. If you insist on using black Ozite, 
    Eddy's furniture and carpet in Worcester may have some in stock. If
    not, they can order it for you. Some Ozite is thicker than others.
    The thicker carpeting is more rugged, but it is a bitch to work
    with, especially on speaker cabinets. In order to attach the Ozite
    (or Tolex, if you decide to use Tolex), you must use contact cement.
    Contact cement is really the only thing strong enough to bond heavy
    fabric to wood. Contact cement has many dangerous characteristics
    which you *must* bear in mind when using it. First of all, it is
    extremely flammable. Do not use contact cement anywhere near a gas
    appliance with a pilot light, or an electrical appliance that could
    spark. Contact cement emits a very strong odor of toluene (sp) which
    is very flammable, and is also very toxic to people. I recommend you
    use it outdoors, or in a well ventilated area. Keep children, and
    especially pregnant women away from the fumes. If you use contact
    cement in a poorly ventilated area, you will become very light-headed
    and may even pass out from the fumes. It will literally make you
    high as a kite. Contact cement should be applied liberally to both
    surfaces (the wood and the fabric) and you should allow it a few
    minutes to set up. Once it begins to set up, attach the fabric to
    the wood. Make sure to line it up properly the first time, as it
    is very unforgiving. Once you lay the fabric down on the wood, you
    will have very little chance of re-lifting it to make adjustments, 
    so make sure you have no bubbles, or folds in the material the first
    time. The fabric must be stretched around the edges, and and tucked
    neatly inside the cabinet. The corners should be as neat as possible,
    but the metal corners will cover up a little bit of error. The best
    way to do this job is with another person helping you. Make sure to
    buy plenty of contact cement (you'll probably use a whole gallon
    for the two cabinets). I usually use the cheap foam paint brushes
    to apply it. I learned this art from an old friend I was in a band 
    with. We did up several speaker cabinets, guitar cases, racks, etc. 
    He had a source for original Fender Tolex, and grille cloth and we 
    restored many Fender cabs and amps. I have never worked with Ozite, 
    though. I am limited to working with vinyl.
    
    Good luck. Hope this helps.
    
    Mark
    

    Coop,
    
    I know where ya can get some grey fuzzy stuff, but it could be painful
    to remove......|^)
    
    Bulldawg

    RE: .1  
    
    Wow !  Man, your scaring me to death !  I'm chicken to try it now.
    Though, not because of the fumes...I'm just thinking that if I botch
    it, I'll wreck my cabs !  Why doncha come down here and help me
    ??!?!?  ;^)  As for wood, I used 3/4" marine plywood (same as on
    the thing when I started) for the other side.  They are monsters,
    but i'm hoping to get the KILLER ADA cab sound from them, at a 10th
    of the price...
      
    Any other ideas on what I can do to finish the cabs ?  I suppose
    I could paint 'em...(Like they are...)
    
    Steve man, STOP !  Your crackin' me up !
    
    Rastro sez: Rouch !
    
    jc
                        

    	Peavey dealers sell "fuzzy carpet" for covering amp's I believe a 
    square yard is around $19.95. Also I know someone who did a whole
    sound system with the grey ozite and used "Liquid nail's" for an
    adhesive....

    Hey Jeff!  I just recovered a nice old Ampeg cab with black Ozite a
    couple of weeks ago.  If I were you, I'd go ahead and try it, it's not
    as hard as it might sound.  The worst thing that might happen is that
    you'd have to pull the Ozite off, toss it and try again.  I don't think
    it's any more difficult to work with then Tolex, maybe easier because
    it's a little stretchy and you can pull the seams together even if
    they're a bit off.
    
    While the contact cement is kind of a pain (don't get it on the outside
    of the ozite, it's really hard to get off!), it's not *that* bad.  You
    *can* peel it off and reposition it.  It's a lot easier to work with if
    you have two people...
    
    The only thing that I found tedious about doing that was getting it cut
    precisely.  I tried to avoid having seams along the corners so I split
    it into a kind of star pattern and the seams are on the back.  This was
    a little more difficult, but I think it was worth it. The Ozite has a
    little bit of stretch which can really save you if your measurements
    are a little off and the knapp of the material makes the seams not so
    visable.  Don't try to overlap it though, it doesn't work well.
    
    BTW, the Ozite I got only cost me $4/sq. yard.  Be sure you get LOTs of
    the contact cement, as Mark said, the Ozite really soaks it up!  I used
    about 3/4 of a gallon doing a small 4x12 cab (27x30x14).
    
    Greg

    uh Jeff ... I changed my mind. I want my cabinet back . . .
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                                                             BUSTED
                                                             ------
 
    
    				Scary ...

    A few more details about cabinet finishing.
    
    First of all the cabinet should be completely disassembled into
    the shell (sides,top,bottom) the front (speaker baffle) and the back 
    (unless this is an open back cab). If this is an open back cab, there 
    should still be some wooden panels on the top and bottom of the back, 
    which serve to strengthen the cabinet. These panels should be removed, 
    and covered separately. Bear in mind that the covering will make all the 
    pieces fit much tighter (especially Ozite), so the speaker baffle and 
    back cover/panels will probably have to be shaved slightly to allow 
    them to fit back together once the finishing is done. Even though the 
    speaker baffle is covered with grille cloth, it will still need to be 
    trimmed, because the Ozite gets tucked inside the cabinet and makes
    the baffle opening smaller.  
    
    I know my explanation in .1 is a bit incriminating if you have never
    done this type of work before. I am personally kind of fussy about
    fit and finish on my equipment. Even if your not quite as fussy, the
    cabinet should still fit together right, and look at least halfway
    decent after it's done, otherwise why bother. 
     
        I generally do the entire shell in one piece, with the seam
    centered at the bottom of the shell. With Tolex, you can overlap
    the fabric at the seam. Since Ozite is so thick, you probably
    won't want to do this. You'll need to make a nice clean butted
    seam.
    
    
                   _________________
    		  /                /|
                 /    top         / |
    		/----------------/s |
	        | s |		| i |
    		| i |		| d |
                | d |		| e | 
    		| e |___________|___|  
    		|  /      /     |  /
    		| /   bot/tom   | /
    		|/______/_______|/
                        ^
                       seam
	
	I have never done Marshall cabinets before. I am not too familiar 
    with how the back is designed, but it seems to me that most of the 
    Marshall cabs I have seem have been closed back, with the back 
    permanently attached to the shell. In this case, Gregs idea would work. 
    I would probably do it a little differant. In any case, I would have 
    to see the cabinet to decide how to go about it. On closed back Fender 
    cabs the back is a separate piece attached to the shell with lots of 
    phillips head screws with backing washers. The speaker baffle is 
    attached to the shell from the inside with wood screws, and the back 
    is closed up last.
    
	More later, gotta run to a meeting.
    
    	Mark

    I'm looking forward to trying it out.  I appreciate you guys taking
    the time to input your ideas and suggestions.  I'll let you know
    how it comes out !
    
    BTW - RE: Disassembly...No can do.  This cab is permanently glued
    and screwed.  I thought I'd try for a seam in the back and a seam
    on the bottom.  Skids and corners will cover up my botches (I'm
    sure there will be some.  I'm usually in a rush to get things done
    ya know ?  No patience...But I'm trying with this project.
    
    jc

	Actually, if the cabinets have not been painted, or don't have
	some other type of covering already on them (for example, you just
	made your own cabinets out of plywood), you can use Elmers Wood
	glue (you'll use a lot of it) to hold the ozite to the wood. I use
	lots of staples to hold things until the glue drys.

	When you cover with this, you have to allow 1/8 inch for each part
	that presses against another part. For example, if the back is
	detachable, and it will also be covered, reduce the size of the
	back board by 1/4 in in each direction (since there will be edges that
	have to fit into each other). Also, make sure that you recess your
	braces by 1/8 inch so that the back panel lines up with the sides.

	On the front board (where you might be using grill cloth, or expanded
	steel), you need to also trim down the front panel to match, however,
	since you are not pressing an ozite carpeted piece into another ozite
	carpeted piece, make the front panel only 1/8 inch narrower (rather
	than the 1/4 in narrower for the back).

	You need to round the edges, the amount depends on what kind of corners
	that you plan to use. I suggest that you buy the corners first, so
	you don't get surprized later when you can't find some that match
	what you did to the edges. If you are putting corners that have 
	very straight angles on them, only round the cabinet angles very
	slightly (heavy grit sand paper should do it for you, possibly
	a rough wood file to do the initial work). If you edges are highly
	rounded (like those on many cabinets, & you are using Peavey large
	corners), use a router with a blade that cuts about 1/2 inch curves:

		 ||
	     ____||____   The router bit sort of looks like this (I can't
	     |__    __|   get the ASCII text to reflect the curves right).
		\  /
		 ||


	Make sure that there are no nails near these edges, otherwise you
	won't like the nasty results.

	Use spackling compound anywhere that you need to to get a fairly
	smooth edge (it doesn't have to be perfect).

	If you plan on making cabinets, make sure that you recess the front
	board (where the speakers are attacted) by about 1 inch for front
	mounted speakers, and 1/4 inch for rear mounted speakers. This allows
	you to put on grill cloth/steel mesh covering that should be moderately
	protected.

	Keep these recesses in mind when you design your cabinets, as the
	inside dimensions are important (if you have the Radio Shack / JBL /
	or other speaker design plans/guides), and you need to stick to those.

	I sugesst 5/8 inch plywood, as you will end up with 3/4 inch corner
	dimensions & that will fit the 3/4 inch hardware that is often 
	available on the market.

							Jens

    I have a catalog from some place that sells all kind of supplies for
    building speaker cabinets, road cases, etc., including tolex, the
    carpeting you're looking for (in black, too), and hardware like
    corners, marshall-style handles, etc.  I know I listed the address
    either in this conference, or in MUSIC, but I'll try to find tthe
    catalog tonight.

    I just checked - the place is Penn Fabrication, and I listed their
    addresses in this conference - note #  904.  

    Thanks guy!
    
    Quick update...  Kinda ran out of time and motivation, so I painted
    them black, wired them up, put the grilles on and Vrooom !  They
    look okay...I DO want to cover them when I have some time, but band
    business is starting to pick up and it's keeping me busy.
    
    I loaded the cabs (each) with (1) Peavy Scorpian-plus 12" and 
    (1) PAS 12".  Wired in parallel (4ohms), covered my homemade grills
    (thanks for the tips Scary!) with black speaker covering stuff from
    Radio Shack, and tacked on those silly Marshall logos (courtesy
    of The Music Nook {or whatever it's called} in Acton and plugged
    'em in.
    
    I love 'em ! Plenty of bass response, power handling in excess of
    300watts, light, portable and not too bad to look at (better with
    covering though).
    
    I'll at least order the stuff.  Once it arrives, I'm sure I'll get
    motivated.  You know how it is.  Thanks for the pointers !
    
    jc 

    
    
    
    	I'm thinking about building and extension cab for my amp.... I
    don't need it, I just don't have anything to keep me busy lately.  What
    should I use for a single twelve unit??  Plywood???   Re-inforced?? 
    How would you guys finish it??  Paint, Stain? Carpet? Fabric???   How
    much ought it cost??  What speaker would you advize for use with my
    super 60 and playing style (aged, hippy, novice, lover of Clapton, SRV
    etc.)??  Would a 2-12 cab be better???   Huh??  Huh??? 
    
    
    Steve
    

Angled front...  Plywood 2x12 (like the ADA units) are neat... Cover with Ozite
so nobody will see any woodworking blunders (I blunder :)

Expanded Steel speaker covers ala Boogie are neeto too.

jc (WHo needs to build some more 2x12s !

j

Steve come see me I've got plans for cabs, and a nice catalog of cab hardware


dbii

    
    
    
    	jc, what's this ozite stuff??   Is it the black carpet stuff??

Yeah, yeah... The black or grey fuzzy stuff.  Looks like chest hair ;)
jc

    
    I know it been mentioned before, but where can you buy ozite or tolex?
    A pointer to another note will be fine and dandy.
    
    Thanks,
    -pat

Penn Fabrication....

dbii

	Ozite is nothing more than INDOOR/OUTDOOR CARPET. You can often
	find this at hardware stores and carpet stores. It is, however,
	a seasonal product at those stores, so they probably won't have
	any in the winter time.

	Blue, Grey and Black look ok. Red and Green look horrible.

	The stuff can't take too sharp of a bend when you glue it on,
	so round all edges a little bit before gluing and stapling.
	It will tear if not careful about these sharp edges.

						Jens

Pat,

I haven't gone looking yet...Lets do lunch, and we'll find some...
I still wanna cover my Marshall cabs with Ozite...Which btw, comes
in different thicknesses...I would think the thinner the stuff is,
the easier it will be to tack/glue on...  Wanna get together and
try it this weekend ??

jc

    
    
    
    	Oh No, it's winter time here in Maine ALL THE TIME!!!!  I may never
    find the stuff!!!

    There's always mail order, Steve...

    ElectroVoice will give you plans for a single 12 enclosure that's
    got a Thiele alignment for the EVM-12.  They've also got plans for a
    15 enclosure and an 18(!) enclosure.  I've built about a dozen of the 
    15's and a half-dozen 12's.  The construction is 3/4 plywood with 3/4
    x 2-1/2 fir 'stiffening' frame.  There's a tunable port: you can change
    the corner frequency of the low end by removing the port cover.
    
    I've covered a number of 'em with Ozite...the grey flavor.  It's not
    that easy to work with; you need glue and staples.  Also, every cabinet
    I built had radiused edges, which helps the Ozite a little.  The
    majority of cabinets I built were finished with polyurethane and metal
    corners.
    
    A friend tried loading two cabinets I built with JBL SRO's...they 
    sounded 'fine', in a very subjective measurement.  The point is, I
    can't vouch for the performance of the cabinets with a non-EV speaker,
    but my friend thinks his JBL's sound great.
    
    One of the best features is modularity: want two, four, or eight speakers?
    Wire the cabinets with two jacks and just pay attention to the load
    presented to the amp.  Some gigs, I played with a single 12.  Other 
    gigs, I'd play with a 15 on my side of the stage and a 12 on the
    other side, so the other guitar player could hear what I was playing.
    
    I've got a couple of 15's at my house; you could come over for a listen
    if you'd like.
    
    Regards,
    John Kelly
    
    
    
    

    Hey!  
    
    Anyone know how to REMOVE beat up old tolex??
    
    I recently picked up a Yamaha Electric Baby Grand that could use
    some pretty-ing up.    Whats an easy way to remove the old stuff??
    
    jc
    

  How about acetone or a paint removing heat gun???




kLeM    

    The one cab that I did, the tolex just peeled off once I got it
    started.  It's just some sort of simple glue.
    
    Greg

   Yeah, on the 2x12s I got from you (Coop), the snakeskin tolex pulled right
   off.  Of course, it was loose in a couple of places.

   -- Sam
   

    Bye-bye snakeskin...  :-(
    
    :-)
    
    Anyhow, I'm just curious - I don't even know what I want to do with
    this thing yet.  Keep it?  Sell it??  Burn it???  :-)

    ...give it to Greg...

    GIVE it hmm??
    
    :-)

    You are getting very..very....sleeeeeeeepy....
    
    ...give it to Greg...
    
    Your eyes can hardly stay oooooopen....
    
    ...give it to Greg...
    
    You feeel very geeeeeenerous...
    
    ...give it to Greg...
    
    When I snap my fingers, you'll pick up the phone and call him with the
    news.  Snap.

    "Hello, Greg?  You'll never guess what...I am giving up the guitar
    to take up the pan flute.  Will you take all of my gear from me??"
    

    I AM getting sleepy.  Yawn.
    :-)
    
    Greg - I'll trade ya for some studio goodies...
    
    :-)