Conference napalm::guitar

    That's a really open ended question.  It's pretty much impossible to
    say, as tremelos are a subject regarded as highly subjective.  I
    personally prefer the Floyd Rose style tremelos of all the ones I've
    used.
    
    Of the ones you mentioned, I believe that Hamer offers either Floyd
    Rose or Kahler trems on their guitars and Kramer pretty much uses the
    Floyd types.
    
    My suggestion is to play a few and see what feels good to you (and
    fits in your budget).
    
    Greg

    
    Hi there...
    
    Being an avid fan of, and a heavy tremolo user I think I might have
    some things that might interest you, if you're ready for an extremely
    opinionated view...
    First you might want to look into, if you're looking at Floyds is that
    there are some cheaper versions in the market that are not the true
    double clamp (at the bridge and the nut) T-system, but looks almost
    just like a Floyd...
    I also understand that Kahler has a new T-bar that locks the bar in
    place when it's not in use, and subsquently locks the strings in tune
    if one of them happens to break.  Sounds like a good idea, but never
    played one...  My intructor highly recommends that I try one...
    I too prefer Floyds.  Never played any other bar system that comes
    even close as being smooth or comfortable...
    One last thing I'd like to mention is that, although very similar in
    design, the Ibanez Edge tremolo feels better than the Floyd.  For one
    they've taken the fine tuners out of the way of palm muting, and also
    they are heavier so you can sustain a note all day...
    
    Take one good guess at which of these I happen to own....
    
    						J.
    

    If the choices are Rose and Kaher, (and your ceratinly not limited to
    those two, however, I believe they still are the industry standard..) I
    personnaly rather like the 'feel' of the  kahler system over the rose.. 
    I've played both, (the other guitar player in our band has a rose on
    his washburn, and on previous pieces he's owned.
    
    Basically they both do real well for staying in tune, even if
    you really get on em, they'll come back in tune, or just a nit
    out..  (quick enough to correct with the fine tunners..)
    
    In comparing one to the other, the floyd rose system tends to be alot 
    stiffer to use than the  kahler, some like that,  I don't.
    
    Plus, probably as virtue of the lighter touch, the kahler seesm to
    operate *much* smoother than the rose...  but I suppose it's all in 
    what your used to.  Where I'm use to the Kahler, I fell I really have
    to 'step' on the rose to get it to respond.
    
    Major fall out to the Kalher I have is when you blow out a string... 
    don't even think about continuing on.. (thats when I usually grab the
    strat,,, real quick, and change mid song..)  I like the idea in the
    new version mentioned earlier....  Bout time they fixed that headache.
    
    one other point, changin strings on the rose is a little tuffer than
    on a kahler.  (this comes into to play big time when your trying
    to restring between sets.)  But again, once your used to it, it's
    probably no problem at all...
    
    Other than that, I think it's the 'feel thing that you have to
    consider.  Given you can get used to almost anything, you'd be best to
    try one of each (if you limit your choices down to Rose  or Kahler)
    see which one gives you a better first impression.
    
    The only other thing is if you're fitting on on a guitar that currently
    doens't have one, I personnaly suggest you seek a professional luthier
    to do the work for you.  It requires drilling and routing the wood of
    the guitar..  Unless your real good, and know what you're doing, it
    could be fatal!!!  Moot point if you're buying one with a factory
    installed whamy..
    
    
    
    

    
     I had the occasion to play with a Hamer (Rose) and the new Strat
    (Kahler, by the way, this guitar is not better than my 15 year old
    100$ Kasuga!). The Rose was nice, the Kahler left the Strat out
    of tune after 5 times using it - normal or just bad luck?
     Is there a trem which keeps the guitar in tune after a string is
    blown?
     How can I see the differences between low and high quality trem's?
    
     One last word to the new Strat: I own an American Standart Strat
    which is fantastic. Fender should step back to the known good
    quality; if this new Strat is all they can do now, they better....
    
     Thanks for your info's so far
     Guenter
    

    
    re: -.1
    
    > Normal or just bad luck

    Or just improper set up ?
    
    I can't stress it enough... Floyds and Kahlers don't work as advertised
    if they are not set up properly.  There is a topic on set up in
    here someplace.  Try doing a DIR/TITLE=SET
    
    jc

    re: .4
                                                             
    If the strings were not stretched out after they'd been put on the
    instrument then you'd see the tuning inconsistant for a little while
    (until they stretch out).  I'd say that it was just bad luck (or bad
    setup like Jeff says), since I have guitars with Kahlers that seem to
    stay in very well.
    
    The Steinberger Trans-Trem is supposed to stay in tune if a string
    breaks.  Also the Kahler model with the lock which was mentioned before
    will prevent (or minimize) tuning changes when a string breaks.  Note
    that this trem is NOT the standard Kahler style trem, but is a Floyd
    Rose style model made by the Kahler company.  BTW, the trem lock is
    optional on this model.  The only company I know that offers this
    tremelo on their new guitars is Carvin.
    
    Greg

	I have a Kahler 3710 whammy with the  auto-latch option on
	my new Carvin DC400.   The auto-latch is an option available
	on Kahler's 3710 or Spyder trem's.   When the bar is in the
	trem-ready position, you can whack, whammy, and shred to your
	heart's delight.  Drop the bar to point at the floor (right angle
	to the strings) and the bridge is locked.  Having the bridge locked
	is very useful when you...

	- like to rest your hand on the bridge, particularly when using
	  muting techniques.  This is the main reason I bought it.

	- Doing bending double stops.  With a floating bridge, when you
	  bend the top string, the tension on the trem makes the 2nd
	  string/note go flat.  Not a problem with the auto-latch locked.

	- Break a string.  Just put the bar down, push down on the tail
          of the trem, and it locks, and your in tune.   Have had the axe
          for a couple of months and haven't broken one yet, but I assume
	  it does the job.

	- Unscrew the bar and the bridge locks automatically (makes sense
          who wants a floating bridge when your not using the bar?)


	The downside is you get a small hole cut in the back of your guitar
	so you can access the "zero-point" latch.  After you tune the guitar
	you put the bar in lock position, open the zero-point latch (I forget
	the exact term), tune again by moving the trem itself, then lock
 	the zero-point latch.  Your basically telling it "when I lock it, 
	lock it here."  9 times out of 10, it's already correct (in tune
	both locked and unlocked) so it's really not much of a hassle. Although
	somewhat intimidated by the trem and latch (my 1st whammy!), couple
	weeks of getting used to it, and it's a breeze.  Set it, forget it!

	Kahler vs. Rose - personal preference really.  Both are real solid
	whammy's.  As other reply's have indicated, they *must* be set up 
        correctly to function correctly.  The availability of the auto-latch 
        on the Kahler was the deciding factor for me.  Guitar stays in tune 
        extremely well with the 3710.   Happy whammying,  _Mark

    Ah!  Someone that has one of these things.  It sounds rather
    attractive.  I may consider getting one for one of my guitars.
    
    Where does the locking mechanism kick in?  When the bar is at say 4
    o'clock, 6 o'clock?  Where does it release again if you continue moving
    the bar back toward the back of the guitar?  I like to take the bar and
    have it pointing straight back sometimes, would this trem allow me to
    use it in this position?
    
    Does the locking mechanism cause friction when the bar is set to swing
    loose (or can you set it to swing loose even)?
    
    Greg

>    Where does the locking mechanism kick in?  When the bar is at say 4
>    o'clock, 6 o'clock?  Where does it release again if you continue moving
>    the bar back toward the back of the guitar?  I like to take the bar and
>    have it pointing straight back sometimes, would this trem allow me to
>    use it in this position?

It kicks in around 5 o'clock, and stay's locked till about 7 o'clock where
it'll then release, so yea, you could use the trem with the bar pointing 
straight back (I better check this tonight, I've never used it straight
back but am 98% sure it releases around 7 o'clock).


>    Does the locking mechanism cause friction when the bar is set to swing
>    loose (or can you set it to swing loose even)?

The locking mechanism doesn't really cause much friction at all.  You can feel
it engage (small metal "thing" move's into a notch plate attached to the
trem which prevents the trem from moving) but it's very slight.  My Kahler's
(2710, not 3710 as I wrote in .6!) arm tension is adjustable and when it's
set to loose, a slight tap sends it pointing straight down at the floor,
without any impedence from the auto-latch at all.

BTW, someone asked me about the price of the Kahler Auto-Latch.  Got it for 
$50 installed with my Carvin.  I think they list for around $80 or $90.


RE: .0, One more suggestion if your buying a guitar w/whammy... If you buy 
it from music store (as opposed to a private deal), ask them to set it up for
you with the string type/brand and gauge you normally use.   If they set it
up with whatever's on the guitar, and you then change string gauge/brands,
it'll need to be re-setup.   

_Mark

    Thanks for the info Mark.  It definately sounds like an interesting
    product!
    
>BTW, someone asked me about the price of the Kahler Auto-Latch.  Got it for 
>$50 installed with my Carvin.  I think they list for around $80 or $90.
    
    For those interested, the price it for the Auto-Latch piece only, and
    does not include the 2710 tremelo itself (which is required).
    
    Greg

    
     IT'S DONE!!
    
     Last week I bought a HAMER Sustainiac. Besides a Floyd Rose trem,
    a humbucker and two single coil pickups this guitar features a 
    sustain pickup. This pickup can be switched on and off and produces
    harmonic waves to the picked tone. A second switch (three positions)
    selects the hight of the harmonic. Hamer says that the sustain tone
    lasts for two years - I'll tell you in 1991 if it's true......
    
     Anyway this is a fantastic instrument!
    
    Thanks for all your hints,
    Guenter
           

         
    Anybody got any advice on over-coming the problem of resting your
    hand on the trem ?                
                                      
    A couple of guitars I'm looking buying at have floating trems. I'm 
    used to playing hardtail, and I rest my hand, quite firmly, on the 
    bridge. Also, I find that my picking is not so accurate when I have 
    to rest my hand on a trem (weather its floating or not).
                                      
    Is it just my technique or is it a common problem switch from hard-tail
    to whammy ? 
                
    Thanks in advance,
    -Tony      

    Like you, I used to play only hardtails and put my hand on the bridge
    all the time.  When I went looking for guitars with a trem a few years
    ago, I first rejected the Floyd types 'cause I couldn't seem to play
    them in tune.  Kahlers don't seem as bad, depending on where you like
    to put your hand.  
    
    I found that I didn't like the feel of the Kahlers as well after
    playing several.  Bottom line is that I was able to modify my technique
    so that I don't throw the guitar out of tune when I play.  
    
    I noticed with interest that the Ibanez Jem 777 model (not all the
    Jems, if I remember right) have a "C" shaped bar that runs over the
    Floyd style trem that you can put your hand on.  Seems like a good
    idea, it would also keep the top of the tremelo from getting
    tarnished/worn where you put your hand.  I guess Steve Vai likes to
    rest his hand on the bridge too...
    
    Greg                              

    I hook my pink around the lead position pickup and rest my hand
    on the strings just forward of the trem...This works good if you
    like that chunka-chunka muted sound.  When I want the sustain without
    the mute, I just arch up my palm a bit.  
    
    jc

    I've read with interest all the Floyd, Kahler notes in here.  I've only
    tried a Floyd in the past.  I'm currently looking at 2 guitars (same
    vendor, different models) to purchase via mail order.  One has a Kahler 
    and the other a Floyd ($50 more), which would be recommended to a fairly 
    new player?  I'm leaning toward the one with the Kahler unit, is the
    difference in sustain REALLY noticeable?
    
    Mike

    Hi Mike,
    
    I'd say that the difference in sustain is usually not as big a factor
    as the way the tremelos feel.  They are SUBSTANTIALLY different in feel
    and sensitivity.
    
    I highly recommend that you go find a guitar somewhere with a Kahler
    and try it out before you buy one, as they feel totally different then
    a Floyd or Strat style.  
    
    Quite honestly, I never noticed much difference in sustain that I could
    directly attribute to the tremelo.  I think it had more to do with the
    rest of the guitar.  The only exception could be that some people claim
    that really big bends on the upper frets decrease sustain because the
    string hits the side of the roller in the Kahler, but on my last Kahler
    equiped guitar, the nearby frets squelched the sustain before the
    roller got in the way.
    
    Hope this helps,         
    Greg

another thing about the Kahler is that it's p[retty soft until you put the 
heavy spring upgrade in it. then the feel is close to but still not as stiff
as a floyd...

the sustain loss is hard to quantify, for me anyway, but I'm certain there
is some..

dbii

Mike,

I gotta agree with Greg (no big surprise really)...  You MUST play one to decide
which is right for you.

In *my* estimation, a Kahler system is more for a beginner..Someone who doesn't 
have the skills and  patience for the setup time a Floyd is *going* to take. The 
Kahler is easier to get along with when setting up.  On the other hand, I like 
the feel of a Floyd type unit better.  It's got a much more progressive feeling 
("sprung"..It's got coil springs in it, where the Kahler uses a spring steel 
torsion arrangement).  I don't feel that the sustain of either unit is a major 
factor compared to setup and feel.

Try one !

jc

    My Kahler just died!  i need new springs and rollers...anyone have any
    info where and how I can get (new) replacements?!?!?
    
    

     Send $2.00 For the 
    New KAHLER Literature Kit to
    
    A.P.M.
    P.O. Box 9305
    Anaheim, Ca  92812
    
    Re Base:
    The kahler they're offering is alot like a floyd, either the 2610 or
    2710 these are licensed under Floyd Patents.
    
    The Kahler I venture may have more resale value, like maybe it's extra
    cost even. What It's Worth maybe

RE: Buck...Continued from MAIL conversation...

                       Coops Guide to Kahler-Kare

Symptoms:

   -Guitar won't come back in tune after dive bomb and other thrilling wiggle
    stick trix.

   -Rollers don't move

Cause:

   -All kinds of guck from sweat, dust, beer etc...Gunk up those rollers.  They
    are made of a brass-bronze alloy, so they corrode and stick.  These cleaning
    trix also work for Floyds...Cuz they get yucky too.

Step one:

Go to the autoparts store and pick up a can of WD40...Like non-aerosol if you 
can, and take the unit right off the guitar.  DRENCH the beast in WD40...
Let it soak in the goop over night.  Take a wire brush or even a tooth
brush to the beast.  Scrub the hell out of it.  All those rollers will start 
to move again...PRESTO !  If the rollers won't move, force them gently with a 
pair of pliers with jaws wrapped in tape to pad them.  Be gentle.  Keep soaking!

Step two:

There are also several adjustments to that "spring" (torsion bar) to stiffen
the action etc... After you've cleaned and remounted your trem, bring the bar 
all the way forward and look underneath.  There is a allen bolt.  Play with it.
To tighten the spring, tighten the allen bolt.  PRESTO !  I think there is also
a allen bolt on top on the unit that acts as a "stop" for then the trem comes 
back up, although your model may not have one.

Go for it dude, but go to the UPS place first.   ;)

jc (Who's had a few Kahlers and Kahler-copies...)

    Do Floyd's use rollers too?  If not, what do Floyd's use?

    re: Kahlers retaining value
    
    I totally disagree.  Not only do Kahlers cost less to begin with, they
    are far less popular then Floyds.  I don't think guitars so equiped
    hold their value any better.  
    
    I do think that the Kahlers probably last longer because the design of
    the Floyds have a knife edge on the trem that will wear with use.  When
    it gets worn, it won't stay in tune.   There seems to be little you can
    do but replace the trem, as the knife edges themselves are not
    replaceable.  You can also replace virtually every part on a Kahler
    and parts are available.
    
    re: Buck
    
    Many Kahler dealers carry the replacement parts.  There is a Kahler
    part kit that they can get.  One of the local stores here in Co.
    Springs, Rice Music, has the parts and they'll mail order, if you
    want.  Call (800)444-RICE, ask for Walter (tell him I told you to call
    and maybe he'll cut you a break on the price).
    
    Greg

    Sorry Mike, looks like you slipped your note in there while I was
    writing my last one.  Didn't mean to ignore the question.
    
    No, Floyds have no rollers, they just have a saddle that the string
    sits in.  Because they don't incur a forward/backward motion to the
    string, but change the tension by moving the stop tail around a fulcrum
    point, there is no need for rollers.
    
    One nice point about the roller mechanism on the Kahlers is that the
    strings maintain the same height regardless of what you're doing with
    the trem.  With a Floyd, because of the fulcrum action, they raise when
    you push down on the bar and lower when you pull the bar up, so you
    have to compromise with the string height sometimes so you can get
    additional upward motion for the bar without bottoming the strings on
    the upper frets.  
    
    Some guitars seem worse about this then others and I can't figure out
    why.  Anyone out there able to explain why given the same string height 
    on an Ibanez and a Charvel, you can't pull up as much on the Charvel
    before the strings bottom?  Would neck angle have an effect on this? 
    (I intuitively said no, but I'm willing to reconsider).  The Charvel
    definately has more neck angle then the Ibanez.
                                                   
    Greg

Greg,

I dunno if I can lend any real answers here, but I will say that the
base plate of my Charvel hits the body of the guitar before the strings 
hit any frets.  It must be the different set ups...

??

    
    RE; comment about FL's knife edge getting worn out with use...
    
    I'm in the process of taking apart Kramer Focus 4000 to build a new
    guitar with the Rose and Pickups, etc (I've ordered a neck and a body
    from Stu/Mac) and last night took the Rose unit off and inspected the
    knife edge.  This guitar, to my estimation, would be around 3 years
    old or older and I was expecting substantial wear.  I was really 
    surprised that the unit showed little if any silver sub-metal!!
    This goes the same for the two set screws(?) that mount into the 
    mody!!! 
    At the same rate, I understand that Gotoh's make good, reliable Rose
    like trem ( From what I can tell, my Ibanez 340's trem is identical to
    the Gotoh's) for around $90 in Stew/Mac.  Ibanez "Edge" trems seem 
    to have replacable knife edge inserts and the trem itself, I understand
    goes for around $180.  Compared to $250 for Rose back 4 years, that's
    a bargain!!!  You can get a Rose for around $170 complete these days!!
    Personally, I would love to get a hold of an "Edge".
    
    As far as strings bottomming out on the frets, Greg, maybe the saddle
    pieces on the Charvel is set further back?  Since Rose like units are
    on fulcrum, couldn't that cause the bottom out???
    
    My $0.000000000001/2 (getting cheaper all the time 8)  )
    
    J.
    
    BTW, has anyone ever tried "Tremsetters" by Hipshot??? How 
    well do these units work???
    

re: Floyd prices

If you get the jackson licensed variant I've seen them under $100 and the 
jackson is better IMHO as the tuners are behind instead of on top of the
bridge...

re: tremsetter I had one on my floyd prior to tearing the floyd off the guitar.
I duuno if it really did anything...Fender installs them on the Strat + I 
believe

dbii 

I agree with dbii...

The Jackson units are REAL nice.  I've got two of them.
Also, a plus for Jackson units is that the Knife edge is
replacable and is made of hardened steel.

If you were to wear one out (highly unlikely), you just press
in a new edge.

jc (more $.02 worth...)

>If you were to wear one out (highly unlikely), you just press
>in a new edge.
    
    Say what you will, but mine has pretty big pits in the knife edge...
    
    They do look to be replaceable on the Jackson, it's the original Floyds
    that I was talking about not being replaceable.  I've seen several that
    were total garbage.  Know where to order replacements for the Jackson?
    (yeah, I know...from Jackson...where? How much?)
    
    Greg

Yo Greg...

That thang ain't a handle you use to shovel the drive way with !
;)

And stop opening beer bottles with it !  ;)

As for replacement parts for Jackson trems ?  Hmmm, I dunno.
I guess you'd have to find an authorized dealer and have him order
a parts kit for ya...  I need to get a fist full of those plastic
bushings for mine...I seem to go thru a set/month !

jc

Victor Litz usually has an excellant prce on the black chrome jacksons..

I do not have the number handy!

dbii

>And stop opening beer bottles with it !  ;)
    
    That's what I got teeth for...
    

    Anyone know of a trem unit that can go on a Les Paul type guitar, but
    requires NO modification to the body?  I was in a store tonight and a
    guy there told me about such a beast (and he didn't have one to sell).
    
    What gives?  Are they any good?
    
    	Dan
    

The least damaging and most reversable trem I ever heard of was the 
Washburn wonderbar, it's major claim to fame was that it allowed you to
get the  performance of a locking system (since it was a locking system) 
without routing the body. You do however, have to put screws into the wood.

kahlers and floyd rose clones require routing and installation is not 
reversable.

you could buy a digitec whammy pedal as an alternative...

dbii

    There used to be a bar called the Rockinger, made in Germany, that
    mounted to the tailpiece studs.  I saw a similar thing called a Les
    Trem, which may have been the Rockinger through an importer.  I haven't
    seen these around for about three or four years.
    
    While not quite a good Strat-style bar, you can mount Bigsby bars on
    Les Pauls, this was even a factory option years ago.
    
    							Brian

    I actually have one of those Rockinger bars that I bought years ago to
    try on a Les Paul style guitar I had.  It replaces the sliding
    stud-mounted stop piece of the guitar and works on a lever action.  It
    requires no modifications to the guitar at all and it completely
    reversable.  
    
    One nice feature it has is that you can lock the tremelo to prevent it
    from moving using a little tab so if you blow out a string, or can't
    keep your hand off it, you can disable it to keep the guitar in tune.
    
    Overall, it wasn't a great tremelo, but I liked it at least as well as
    the old trapeze style ones.  Like most non-locking trem systems, it
    doesn't really stay in tune that well.
    
    I've had it for like six years, Dan, and only used it for a couple of
    weeks when I first got it (couldn't get into tremelos back then). Do
    you want to buy it (cheap)?  Send mail...
    
    Greg

    
    	Hey Brian, doesn't Neil Young have a Bigsby mounted on his LP?

    
    Yep.
    
    BTW, Bigsby arms were available as factory options on SGs, Telecasters
    (rare) and Gretsches.
    
    							Brian

	& there are Rickenbackers with Bigsbys, too.....

    Long ago I had a Les Paul thay I put an old  Kahler on...
    Didn't require routing, but you did have to screw it down.
    I don't know if Kahler still makes this unit or not.  It worked pretty
    well (if you like Kahlers).

    What is the smaller trem fitted to certain SGs? It is a small, straight
    bar with, as I remember, a bone handle that is the right length to hold
    with your fingers curled round while you play i.e. you don't have to
    keep grabbing for it, it just sits comfortably in your hand.
    
    Sorry to be so vague, it's ages since I played one.
    
    Bob

re: small trem on some SG's

that's a gibson trem and like the bigsby it doesn't stay in tune at all

dbii

    re -1:
    
    Well maybe I got lucky, but I've not had the slightest problem with
    keeping in tune when using the Bigsby on my Guild semi-hollow. This is
    not to say that by yanking wildly on the damn thing that I can't force
    something out of tune, or breaking altogether. But in my use with it,
    including dive bomb sounds, I've never had a problem and I use light
    guage strings too. 
    
    While we're on the subject... My favorite thing to do with the Bigsby
    is to bend the note and while bent, wiggle the Bigsby. This gives you a
    vibrato on top of a bend. As far as I know, the Bigsby is the ony wiggle 
    stick that allows you a true vibrato by permitting you to raise the pitch. 
    
     "sakman"

    RE: -.1
    
    >While we're on the subject... My favorite thing to do with the Bigsby
    >is to bend the note and while bent, wiggle the Bigsby. This gives you a
    >vibrato on top of a bend. As far as I know, the Bigsby is the ony wiggle 
    >stick that allows you a true vibrato by permitting you to raise the pitch. 
    
    I've got three difference kinds of whammy's.  A Jackson, A Ibanez
    "Edge" and a Fender-whatever.  They all do what you describe above.
    I can pull up or depress the wiggle stick, or just do a plain ole
    vibrato on it.
    
    jc
                                                         

    Oh yeah, I think Floyds do too now that I think of it providing the
    guitar is routed for it. I can't do it on either of my Strats tho'
    (Kahler type), or at least anywhere near as well.
    
    "sakman"

There are two types of kahlers:
 
the original kahler is a cam operated trem with rollers at the bridge. The 
other type is a floyd rose clone (which is an improved strat type).

The cam operated kahler allows you to pull up...at least mine does.

dbii

    Speaking of trem's, could I get a pointer to a source for a Parsons/
    White string bender?  I'm not interested in the Hip-Shot.
    
    Regards,
    John

     I'm currently working on a song (Sweet Dreams, Chet Atkins 
    & Mark Knopfler). In this song it calls for a 1/2 step Tremolo.
    I am playing this on an acoustic guitar. What is the best
    way to fake the equivalent sound. What is a tremolo? Kinda
    sounds (on CD) like Pre-bent string pick and let go (?).
    
    thanks,
    chuck

    Hi chuck,

	A tremolo is a so-called tremolo arm which enables the player to raise
and lower the pitch of all six strings (or whichever the player is picking).

So, you can pull the bar up to sharpen, down to flatten, or vibrate it up/down
to give a vibrato.

Back to your question: You have sort of answered it yourself, the player 
probably picked the note then pressed the bar down to flatten it. To do this
without a bar, fret the note (fret/string) that you intend to end up on, but 
first bend it sharp to get the start note (tone/semi-tone), then pick it and 
let the note fall to the end note.

There is confusion between tremelo and vibrato. I hope I have not added to it.

The electronic effect in amplifiers called tremolo is in fact a volume 
modulation. The tremolo arm is more properly called a vibrato arm, so I am 
guessing that your tremolo in fact means a depressed vibrato (thanks to your
description of the effect).

hope this helps.....

Dave
 

     Thanks, for the description. No you did'nt confuse with
    vibrato. This particular tab for this song has plenty of
    places calling for vibrato and string bends. So it makes
    sense that this would be a pre-bent string plucked and 
    relaxed. Thanks again for your responce.
      On another note, this song has been a real learning 
    experience (Sweet Dreams, Neck and Neck album, Chet Atkins
    & Mark Knopfler, Tab from Guitar Extra Volume I;Issue 3).
    This is one of the first songs I've learned that is real
    slow and *requires* 'a lot of feeling' put into. I had 
    been previously studying bluegrass, which is more speed than
    anything. So to answer the age old question of "speed vs.
    feeling", they're both important and good to learn. Each
    will challenge ones abilities.
    
    chuck   

    
    If you want a learning experience in getting the most out of a slow
    piece try studying Cavatina as played by The Shadows. On the face of it
    this sounds like a straight 'melody line' cover with Hank Marvin
    playing the usual crystal clear Strat as associated with the Shadows.
    Well, it is for the first 12 bars or so then....
    
    Not only is virtually every note bent up from a tone or semi-tone below
    BUT a volume pedal is used extensively to get a sort of 'violin effect'
    and to cap it all with virtually all notes in a state of being 'bent'
    and being controlled volume-wise by a foot pedal, the notes are subject
    to tremelo as well!!
    
    I'm currently just trying to hit the right pitch on the bends! When
    I've achieved that I'll try getting the volume pedal introduced and
    then just maybe I might start using tremelo.
    
    This piece is the ultimate in 'all that sounds simple is not
    necessarily so'!.
    
    Richard

    Well, now that shred is officially dead, I guess it's time for me to
    look into these newfangled locking trem thangs; don't wanna rush into
    anything ya know :-)
    
    Anyway, after consulting with various noters, music stores, etc. I get
    the impression that all Floyd style trems come from one of three places
    these days:
    
    	Floyd
    	Gotoh
    	Schaller
    
    Pretty much every locking trem I see around is one of these three.
    Original Floyds are now owned and sold by Fender(!), stock Jacksons
    and Washburns are Gotoh, Hamers are Schaller.   Not sure about Ibanez.
    Does this sound about right?  The units all look very similar.  You
    can get the Gotoh from Stewart Mac for about $90, the Schaller for
    $150 and I was quoted $200 (without locking nut, $20 extra) for an
    original Floyd.  Of course, the music shop dude said the Floyd is
    better quality, parts, blah blah blah.
    
    I'm thinking about adding one of these to a project guitar.  Any advice
    on which unit to go for?  Anyone know of better prices (hopefully LOTS
    better on the Floyd)?
    
    /randy man-dude

    I'm pretty sure Ibanez makes their own (or has them made exclusively
    for them), as they seem to be a slightly different design then the
    rest.  Kahler also makes Floyd licensed locking trems.
    
    Subjectively, the Schaller is the sturdiest looking one that I've seen. 
    Beats an original Floyd IMO.  
    
    Greg

    Well, considering that Schaller OEMs hardware to Fender, I'd save the
    $50.
    							Brian

    I have nothing but praise for the Ibanez "Edge" system.  Wow.
    
    jc (Who's probably had most of the other kinds...)
    
    PS - Don't forget the Wonderbar!
    
    (waagagagagagagagagagaaAA!)

>    PS - Don't forget the Wonderbar!
    
    Aka the Blunderbar.  What a hunk of crap!
    8^)
    
    The Ibanez system is nice, but has a little bit lighter feel to it then
    most of the other Floyd variants I've used.  I tend to like a little
    heavier feel myself.  The Jackson that was in my old Charvel was just
    about the perfect locking trem system for me.
    
    Greg