Conference napalm::guitar

    While the SDE3000 is a really great delay, its non-MIDI and would
    be a bit of a drag with the SGE.  I think if you're going MIDI,
    you components should talk to each other.
    
    My starter rack system would look like the following:
    
    KH Quattro preamp	~ $750.
    Alesis Quadraverb	~ $429.  (not list price, but best avail. price
    Metaltronix PWRMP   ~ $550.   in this area)
    
    Total                $1729. 

    
    Of course, you could always throw in a BBE 442 for $219.00!

>    KH Quattro preamp	~ $750.
>    Alesis Quadraverb	~ $429.  (not list price, but best avail. price
>   Of course, you could always throw in a BBE 442 for $219.00!
    
    I'm not familiar with these units, what effects do they offer? 
    What other units, besides the SDE3000, offer 8 seconds of
    full-bandwidth looping (i.e., Playmate)?
    
    Thanks so far,
    Mike

    why a rack? you've totalled up all that money and you didn't even
    include speakers yet!!!!why don't you just get a boogie or a whatever
    suits your purposes and use effects on that....my drummer (believe
    it or not)just got a 60/100 watt boogie combo w/ev and extension
    cab also w/evm plus flight cases for 850$ used but mint.....
    you'd have plenty of power,versatility,portability and CASH to buy
    all the effects you would need....maybe another axe too!
    good hunting,
    Bill
    

    I already have the speakers I plan on using, that is why they are
    absent from the list.
    
    Mike

    
    DOD/DigiTech has a delay offering 7.6 seconds at 15KHz, not
    programmable or MIDI, but a good box for tape loop/Frippertronic
    type doodling.  Cheap, too, about $400.
    
    They also make an 8 second delay stomp box (no modulation for
    chorus/flange) with 8 KHz bandwidth for about $300.

    I would suggest you demo the following:
    
    tube preamps:
    
    Mesa Boogie studio .22 preamp      		$500
    Mesa Boogie quad preamp			over $1000
    Kitty Hawk Quattro tube preamp		$700 (?)
    Metaltronix tube preamp                     ~$599
    ADA MP1 tube/transistor preamp		~$599
    
    effects boxes (4 or more layered sounds, midi programmable, rackmount):
                                                                          
    Alesis Quadroverb                           ~$400
    A.R.T. Multiverb	       			~$400
    A.R.T. SGE					~$500
    Digitech DSP128+				~$400
    Yamaha SPX90				~$700
    Roland DEP5					??
    
    These prices are all guesses, and there are a lot more units out
    there that do the same functions. These are some of the more popular
    units.  If your rack is going to include a tube preamp, you really
    don't need a multi-efx unit with distortion. All you really need
    is the ability to layer reverb, delay, flange, chorus, pitch shift,
    etc. therefore the SGE may be overkill. If you can live without the 
    layering (and a pitch shifter), an Alesis MidiverbII is a great unit 
    for $250 (even less than that mail order).
    
    Out of all the tube preamps mentioned above, I prefer the Mesa Boogie
    studio preamp for the biggest bang for the buck, and also because
    I prefer twiddling knobs over programming midi patches (call me old 
    fashioned). This preamp has a stereo effects loop, and two channel
    switching operation. Another nice feature is a set of speaker emulator
    outputs, which basically accomplishes the same thing as a preamp/amp/
    speaker-emulating direct box (ie Harry Colbe's Silent Speaker, etc)
    For the price of $500 it does everything I need in a preamp, it
    delivers a great range of tube tones, and you also get Mesa Boogies'
    reputation for quality and dependability. I have one of these on
    the list I'm mailing to Santa !!
    
    The only problem with Mesa Boogie is that you can either buy them
    direct or from one of the exclusive dealers that have the franchise.
    In New England Daddy's Junky music is the only chain that carries 
    them, and they rarely have .22 preamps in stock at any particular 
    store. 
    
    I agree with previous replies that you shouldn't need a separate
    delay unit if you shop around and get a good multi efx unit.
    
    
    Mark
    

>< Note 1416.7 by ANT::JACQUES >
    
    Mark, couldn't you use the SGE as a preamp?

    Mike

    Yes you can... Thats what i'm runing now.  And it sounds AWESOME!
    
    (My humble and dead-broke opinion, of course  ;^)
    
    jc

    re: .-1 & .-2   
    
    I'm not sure that ART would approve of that.  I was reading through the
    SGE manual again yesterday and found this:
    
    "WARNING: You may achieve gain at the output, we do not that the SGE be
    used to make up for large losses of gain in a system.  There are some
    circumstances where this is unavoidable.  If this is the case, by all
    means compensate.
    
    The optimum setting is unity gain."
    
    Since they are recommending against using the SGE to create gain, as a
    preamp would, it looks like they are not recommending that it be used
    as such.  From rereading the manual, it appears that their intention in
    providing line level markings on the level control sliders is as
    suggested levels for when both the INPUT and output are line level.  
    
    I wanted to use it as a preamp too, but now I'm a little afraid that
    I'll cook it or something if I do.  I don't know what to do now...looks
    like I'm in the market for a preamp (and a power amp, and cabinet(s)).
    
    Since the SGE provides all the effects I need (for the moment), are
    there any stereo preamps on the market which will just boost the
    signal, without all the fancy "gain boost" circuits and such?
    
    Greg

    There are tons of preamps out there for guitar. The majority of
    them are fully transistorized. Only a dozen or less operate on
    tubes. There are two ways of producing distortion tones with
    transistors. The old way is to set up an analog multi-stage
    amplifier circuit. The newer approach is to use memory chips
    to store sampled sounds digitally. Analog transistorized
    preamp circuits have never really been accepted for producing
    tube-like tones. The closest they have come is with MOS FET 
    transistors, since FET's have a trans-conductance curve very 
    similar to tubes. Some people are of the opinion that digitally 
    sampled distortion is the cat's meow, others don't. I personally 
    think that *some* (very few) of the digital distortion units are 
    acceptable, but if I have a choice I would prefer to run through 
    a modern tube preamp to come as close as possible to the classic 
    tones of Fender, Marshall, Mesa etc. amps. I also prefer the
    straight-forward interface knobs give you versus programming a
    midi box. This is a personal thing with me, but I also see lots
    of other guitarist that feel the same way.
    
    I am not that familiar with the SGE's. I have seen them, but
    haven't demo'd one, because quite frankly, I am not in the
    market for anything like it. I looked closely at the Roland
    GP8, and made a decision that it was too expensive for my
    blood, and I didn't like being locked in to using it one
    way. I wanted to be able to place it in the efx loop of my
    Twin reverb and found out if you do this, all the GP8 puts
    out is garbage, because it is designed to see an instrument
    level input, with no distortion. The Boss ME5 is also a nice
    unit but has the same limitation. 
    
    Like a said, I would prefer to drive my guitar through a 
    tube preamp, come out the eff send (preferably at line level)
    through the efx chain, and back into the eff ret (still at
    line level). Any effects in the chain should have enough
    headroom on the inputs and/or the outputs to maintain
    line levels. I am not familiar with all the multi efx units
    on the market, but I know for a fact that my Alesis MidiverbII
    has enough headroom on the input to accept anything from 
    an instument level upto line level, with enough headroom
    to not clip even when driven above line. The output level
    control can shut the output down completely, or can boost
    it up way above line level without clipping. This is a feature
    I would look for in any multieffect unit I buy, so that I
    can use it in a PA, recording, or guitar rig.
    
    Mark

Re: Using the SGE as a preamp

I don't think it will ``cook'' anything if you do this.

I think ART doesn't recommend using the SGE as a preamp because the
didn't design it to be quiet when it produces a gain > 1.  This makes
for much cheaper analog stages.

Steph

    I just called ART to ask about using the SGE as a preamp (actually I
    was kind of surprised to find someone knowledgable there this late).
    
    I spoke to a gentleman named Frank who said that he didn't *think* that
    it would damage the unit, but didn't think it would produce enough gain
    to fully drive a power amp.  He said that it really wasn't designed to
    be used this way though.
    
    He took my name and number and said that he'd have someone that would
    know for sure call me back to discuss it in more detail.  I'll post the
    results here after I've talked to them.
    
    I also asked about the lack of the master volume and he said that they
    thought that the level controls on the non-passive effects were
    adequate when they designed it, but that adding something like that
    would be possible if they got enough requests.  He suggested putting
    that request on the user registration card that comes with the manual
    and sending it it (which I'd already done).
    
    Greg

     I didn't see anything mentioned on controlling the "starter" rack.
    Keeping the bucks in mind I would have to say the ADA or Peavey
    foot controller would be the top choice. Both the Kitty Hawk Quattro
    or Mesa Boogies come with stomp switches for channel changes. This
    could be complicated if your using a MIDI foot controller. In that
    case there's the Rockman MIDI octopus to Programmize your switch
    settings, or for more money the Kitty Hawk MIDI patch Bayette.
    BUT- now your getting away from a starter system.
     My low dough (relatively) starter system:
    
    		- Chandler tube pre amp  _
    		- ART SGE                -
    		- Metaltronix SP1000     -  ( or ADA BP200S - less $)
    		- ADA MIDI foot control  -
    
     The Chandler should work well in this context.

>< Note 1416.14 by USRCV1::REAUME "undergoing behavior analysis" >
>    		- ADA BP200S
>    		- ADA MIDI foot control  -

Any idea what these units cost?  What is the Watts per channel on the
ADA amp?

Thanks to all the contributors here so far.  Great info!

Mike

Does the ADA footswitch transmit on more than one channel at the same time?

So I can control multiple devices with one stomp?

Rivera makes a MIDI to footswitch (plus several other front panel functions) for 
my amp...

I see myself getting set up like this:

Rivera amp
quadraverb
midiverb II
rivera midi converter

all controlled off one footswtich

love that quadraverb!

dbii

    re: -2
    
    There are prices for that stuff in the MP-1 note.  Off hand, I'd
    have to say the ADA BP200S (200WT, 100wt/side solid state) power
    amp goes for $365.00, and the MC-1 MIDI foot controller goes for
    $159.00 new.  Also, latest "best price" quote on the MP-1 preamp
    was $550.00.
    
    Buck

    The Alesis Quadroverb and ART multiverb are similar beasts, and
    the two units share the spotlight in the multieffects arena.
    The biggest differance between the two units is the fact that
    the ART multiverb includes a basic pitch shifter (harmonizer), 
    AND the Quadroverb has pitch shifter (detuner). This has steered
    a lot of people over to the ART multiverb since it allows you
    to create a harmony anywhere from one octave below the original
    to one octave above, but the Alesis Quadroverb only allows
    you to detune the note slightly (this is in effect a form of
    chorusing). A friend has the ART unit. Among other things, the
    pitch shifter allows you to simulates a 12 string guitar within
    reason.
    
    The Roland GP8 has proven to be a very viable preamp. I know
    people that own them and run them directly into a PA system or 
    recording deck, and they work great. There are a few drawbacks 
    to these units however. One is the absense of digital reverb, 
    which most guitar multi effects units have. It seems Roland expected 
    people to buy one of their digital reverb units to accomany the
    GP8. There are a few effects  that a lot of people don't use much 
    like the dynamic filter (a form of wah wah) and the phase shifter. 
    The GP8 also does not include any kind of harmonizer. No offense to 
    GP8 owners, these are great units, but they appear to be at the brink 
    of obsolesence since other manufcacturers are coming out with units 
    with more of the sounds that people want *today*. The GP8 was defin-
    ately a milestone, but other manufacturers are outdoing Roland both 
    price-wise and performance-wise.
    
    From what I have heard, the SGE is a hot unit, but I would make sure 
    before buying one that it can act as a stand alone preamp, and that
    you will have adequate control over things like master volume, etc. 
    as well as enough cut/boost on the eq section to get "your sound".
    
    I don't believe the GP8 or SGE units have stereo effect sends on them 
    despite the fact that they have stereo outputs. Most top-of-the-line 
    tube preamps mentioned here have stereo effects sends on them, at 
    least the two Mesa units do. I would set up something like a GP8 or 
    SGE side by side with a good tube preamp. You decide for yourself if 
    the tube preamp sounds any differant than digitally-sythesized
    distortion, and which sound you prefer. Go through a simple patch
    tweak, and see how friendly the unit will be in tough playing situations
    like live gigs, where you might have to tweak the volume, and
    eq a bit to get it to sound right in that room.
    
    Someone mentioned in an earlier reply their rack would contain
    a Chandler tube driver, and SGE, as well as a few other units.
    I am not exactly sure if the Chanler actually has line level
    outputs on it, capable of driving a power amp. It may have just 
    instrument level outputs. Better check this out before buying one. 
    You have to understand the original concept of the tube driver. 
    Older tube amps (like Fender twins for example) had contained 
    only 2 stage preamp sections. It was not possible to get a Marshall 
    crunch sound out of these amps without some kind of "fuzz tone"
    unless you played them with the volume on 10. Mesa boggie amps
    have a lead channel which has a 3 stage preamp. The extra tube 
    increases the gain to the point where the third tube in line is 
    overdriven into saturation, and distorts. The Chandler tube drivers, 
    and Realtube units contain only one tube. When driven into a 2-stage 
    tube amp (ie Fender) it essentially acts as a third tube and does 
    a fairly good job of getting close to a Marshall or Boogie tone. I 
    have tried them through transistor amps, and while they still distort, 
    they don't sound as good as with a tube amp. The more expensive tube 
    preamps are stand-alone units by design. The clean channels typically 
    have a 2-stage preamp, and the lead channels have 3 stages or more 
    (I think the Kitty Hawk Quattro has 4 stages, but don't quote me on 
    that). The Mesa Quad and Quattro actually have more than just 2 channels
    available, at least they allow for 3 or four preset sounds to be
    punched in. The Mesa studio preamp actually allows for 4 differant 
    tones, due to the fact that it channel switches and the eq can be 
    switched on and off via footswitch as well. The eq auto feature allows 
    you to switch from clean channel (eq out) to lead channel (eq in).
                                     
    I will warn against one thing. If you do end up getting something
    like an SGE (ie something that is capable of doing 9 simultaneous
    effects) use the effects sparingly. Too many effects going on at
    the same time tends to muddy up the sound, or make it sound too
    processed.
    
    Mark
    

    re: .18 digital effect mud
    
    I second that! I've found that every single preset was mixed way to
    heavy on the effects side (on the quadraverb), a practice I've tried to
    discontinue in my programming, however, alone in my studio I tend to be
    heavy handed with the mix as the effects sound so darn good...but I
    dissappear in the mush when playing with the band....
    
    My major beef with the  Quadraverb is that it doesn't do graphic eq and
    chorus at the same time.
    
    re: SGE My local ART dealer won't carry them, he had too many DOA's and 
    didn't care for the distortion as well...I never got to try one so take
    that for what it's worth.
    
    dbii

      re: .15
    
      ADA MIDI foot control runs around $150. Standard bank up/down
    	buttons and 0-9. Program # display. Requires AC adapter ( supplied,
    	I think)
    
      ADA BP200S Bipolar stereo power amp. Over 100 watts/channel and
        less than $400 (discounted). two rack spaces.
    
      

    I'm trying to keep a running tally here.  Based on the input so
    far, looks like this is the entry-level, practical, rack system:

    ART SGE effects processor        ~$500
    ADA BP200S 100wpc power amp      ~$400
    ADA MC-1 MIDI foot control       ~$150
    --------------------------------------
                                   ~$1,050
    
    What's a small rack go for anyway?  The above would take up about
    3 spaces, right?
    
    Mike

    Ummm, a 4 space rack can be had for around $120.00 for a cheapie.

    re: .18
    
    >From what I have heard, the SGE is a hot unit, but I would make sure 
    >before buying one that it can act as a stand alone preamp, 
    
    I still haven't heard back from ART on this.  Looks like I'll have to
    call them again.  The manual specifically says that the SGE is not
    designed for this.
    
    >I don't believe the GP8 or SGE units have stereo effect sends on them 
    >despite the fact that they have stereo outputs. 
    
    The SGE has not effect loop, as it is an effect.  It does have stereo
    inputs and outputs and can deal with either line level signals or
    instrument level signals.
    
    >I would set up something like a GP8 or 
    >SGE side by side with a good tube preamp. You decide for yourself if 
    >the tube preamp sounds any differant than digitally-sythesized
    >distortion, and which sound you prefer. Go through a simple patch
    
    Side by side is the best test you can make especially for distortion,
    since it's such a subjective thing anyway.
    
    Just a nit, but the SGE does not have digital distortion.  It is a
    hybred analog/digital unit.  The distortion, compression, EQ,
    expander/noisegate/envelope filter, and exciter being analog.  An
    interesting thing that the guy at ART told me.  He said that ART used
    to be MXR and that the distortion in the SGE is the same circuitry that
    MXR used.  That blew me away.
    
    >Someone mentioned in an earlier reply their rack would contain
    >a Chandler tube driver, and SGE, as well as a few other units.
    >I am not exactly sure if the Chanler actually has line level
    >outputs on it, capable of driving a power amp. It may have just 
    >instrument level outputs. Better check this out before buying one. 
    
    The Chandler definately has a line level output (in addition to the
    instrument level output.  Just a quick plug, the Chandler is one of the
    best and most flexable distortion type unit I've ever used. 
    
    >I will warn against one thing. If you do end up getting something like
    >an SGE (ie something that is capable of doing 9 simultaneous effects)
    >use the effects sparingly. Too many effects going on at the same time
    >tends to muddy up the sound, or make it sound too processed.
    
    I was worried about this when I first got the SGE too, but it doesn't
    seem to get muddy when a lot of effects are selected.  This was one of
    the things that really impressed me about the unit.  You're right about
    it sounding very processed when you use a lot of effects though.  In
    some scenerios that can be desirable (like playing in a techno-pop
    band, like I do).
    
    re: .19
    
>    re: SGE My local ART dealer won't carry them, he had too many DOA's and 
>    didn't care for the distortion as well...I never got to try one so take
>    that for what it's worth.
    
    Interesting that you mention DOAs with the SGEs, because the first one
    I had (took it home for a weekend demo) developed a problem within the
    first day I had it.  The right channel would intermediately cut out.  I
    made sure I got a different physical unit when I bought one and have
    had no problems at all with this one.
 
    Distortion is a very subjective thing, I love the distortion in the
    SGE.  Everyone who's heard or played through mine has also liked it. 
    In contrast, I *hated* the distortion in the Digitech GSP-5, but know
    several people that like it a lot.
    
    Greg

    I picked up Guitar World's "'89-'90 Guitar Buyer's Guide" today.
    
    Some things to look for:
    
    ART's Delay System VII and Delay System V:
    
    "A programmable studio delay with exceedingly transparent sound,
    virtually unlimited variability of delay times and a wide range
    of modulation control for flange and chorusing.  Features a
    studio-quality sampler, 20Hz-20KHz frequency response, infinite
    delay and feedback variability, and MIDI control capabilities."
    
    Delay System V is the same as the VII above, minus the sampler.
    No price was available for either.  Looks like competition for the
    SDE3000, ART beats Roland again!
    
    Also, Heet Sound Products is re-releasing the E-Bow.  The E-Bow
    has been unavailable for several years.  No price available.

    Mike

    
    
    Art Delay System VII
    Marshall PreAmp
    Marshall PowerAmp
    

    	Does anyone know if the ADA BP200S is 100 watts per channel
    with an 8 ohm load or 4 ohms? If it is 100 watts with an 8 ohm
    load then I'd say it would be adequate for most applications. I
    have found 100 watts with a 4 ohm load was not enough power. This
    is all in reference to solid state power amp's only. A 100 watt
    tube amp is a different story.
    	Where in Mass,NH can someone demo the ADA Power amp,preferably
    around Chelmsford,Westford area?
    

    
    I think it's 100 watts per channel into 8 ohms, but I have to admit I'm 
    not really sure.  Hamel Music in Chelmsford is going to carry them, but
    I've been checking with Hamel from time to time over the last five or
    six weeks and they hadn't received any as of two weeks ago.  I *think*
    he said he expected them in mid to late August.  It might be worth a
    call to see what's happening.
    
    								John

    	Steve at Hamel told me that they are rated at 100 watts with an
    8 ohm load,he also said it maybe November before he see's any of them
    as they had a reliability problem in there power transformer. He has
    2 people who have ordered them and one who has paid in full. Oh well
    scratch an option and check out another......
    
    							Rick

    I called ADA this morning to get their authorized dealers in Arizona.
    I also asked about Massachusetts while I was on the phone.  I was
    told that the authorized dealer in Mass. was Factory Music in Rockland.
    
    Mike

    
    Any comments on the Peavey M2600 power amp?  It's 130 watts per side
    into 4 ohms (Matt Boynton at Daddy's in Nashua thinks it runs about
    80 or 85 watts per channel into 8 ohms).  I think it takes up three 
    rack spaces.
    
    This would be to go with my Mesa Boogie Studio .22 Preamp.  I've 
    been waiting for the ADA unit, but I have to admit I'm a little bit
    worried about the production problems ADA seems to be having.
    
    
    							John

    I don't know but somebody posted a note in AUDIO that is selling
    2 of them @ $400/each.
    
    Mike

    
    
    Those are CS-800 amps, not M-2600 amps.  400 watts per channel at 4
    ohms, and I think they weigh about twice as much as the M-2600.  I
    want a reasonable amount of power and I'd like to keep the rack as
    light as possible.  A 60 lb. amp is a bit much.
    
    
    							John

RE < Note 1416.32 by IDONT::MIDDLETON >

	The M-2600 is a decent amp.  I owned one for a while and it never gave 
me a single problem.  A friend of mine who owns a truckload of Peavey gear says
that he likes the sound of the M2600 over the sound of the beefier CS400's
and CS800's.  He says the M2600 has a sweeter, warmer sound.  I've never heard
the difference myself, so take it for what its worth.

	Dan

    re..
    	John,I would not recommend the M2600 as I tried one for an ex-
    tended period of time with the Mesa Preamp. It did not compare to
    my Fender Twin at 80 watt's and I did not feel it was enough volume/
    headroom. The amp does put out 130 watts with a 4 ohm load and a 1khz
    sine wave. If stereo is not important try a M3000 or for stereo a 
    CS400. The key I believe is to get a 100 watts 8 ohms full bandwidth
    or at least partial bandwith.... The ADA looked like a real good power
    amp......
    
    
    								Rick
    

    M2600 =27lb's 130wt's 4ohms
    M3000 =29lb's 130wt's 8ohms(210@4)
    CS400 =40lb's 120wt's 8ohms(stereo)
    DECA
    424 200watts@4ohms 20hz to20khz 23lbs
    528 250watts		    12lbs
    
    	The 424 is 2 space high,but you'll need air space for cooling,the
    528 is one space high. I'm sure there are plenty of other people in 
    this file and others who can speak for Peavey Power amp reliability.
    
    
    
    

    
    
    Well, I went to a lot of trouble to set up a stereo rig, so I'm afraid
    it is important to me.  But how much power does one really need?  Right
    now I just play at home and the Dynaco Stereo 70 tube amp I'm using is
    plenty.  Would the M-2600 be worse?
    
    Then again, while my living room is big, it's not nearly as big as your 
    typical club.  And I don't have to play over crowd noise, or the rest
    of a group.
    
    Anyhow, I'm really not in any hurry so maybe I'll just have to wait for 
    ADA to get things straightened out.
    
    
    								John

    I own an AMR PMA200 power amp. AMR is Peavey's recording division,
    and the PMA200 is basically an M2600 without a fan. The PMA200 is
    rated at 100 wpc into 8 ohms, and Peavey does not recommend you
    run it into a 4 ohm load (probably due to the lack of a fan).
    I use it to drive a set of Klipsch stage monitors and for that
    application, it works fine, but to be honest, I crave more power. 
    I paid $319 for my AMR amp, and I believe the Peavey M2600 can
    be purchased for slightly more (like $399).
    
    A good transistorized amp for the money is the New Carvin FET
    series. They offer the FET400 for about $499, and a FET900 for
    $599. I haven't heard one of these amps, but a friend of mine
    drives his entire band though an older Carvin power amp. He
    has plenty of power to drive his Bose concert series speakers, 
    and has never had a reliability problem with the amp, despite
    the fact that he bought it used, and uses it constantly.
    
    Mark
    

    IMHO...
    
    Any power amp thats gonna sit in a rack should be FAN cooled if
    possible.  My Metaltronix is not, and I had it in my rack (on the
    bottom).  The rack is five spaces, and was filled compeletely.
    Anyway, at home (read: nominal volume) everything was okay, but when I
    went to our studio to rock (read: full blast for 2+hours) it over
    heated and blew the fuses inside.
    
    Needless to say I panicked having just bought the thing and it
    "smoked".  Well, I called Metaltronix and whined and bitched on the
    phone.  They told me to pull the top cover and replace the 2A fuses 
    with 5A fuses.  They told me I would not be in violation of my
    warrantee, since I called.  Apparantly, they ran out of 5A fuses during
    production and used a few 2A fuses.  Lucky me; I got one with 2A in it.
    
    Anyhow, I have since removed an item (wanna buy a DSP128?) from my 
    rack for airflow, and added a little fan for cooling.  
    
    125wpc into 4ohms isn't enough for metal.  Other than that, I love the
    tone; real warm.
    
    jc

    I disagree on the Sp-1000 not being loud enuff for metal.  I bet
    with 4 4x12 cabs running off that thing, a few air molocules 
    would be screamin by your ears!

    
  My experiance has been you almost alway's need 100 watts (mono)to play in 
most rock band situations. If you depend on a soundman then you can get by with
less. I personally prefer to get by with a lot less,but there's always someone
who is too loud,or has a bigger amp,more speakers etc. Also for other styles
of music you may not need as many watts.... Where the band balances itself
from stage volume....
  I'm not sure how the Dynaco is rated? So I couldn't tell you if the M2600
is worse. I do suggest that you try one....But the ADA really seem's worth
the wait if you can afford too...
  Also Daddy's now has the Studio preamp 22($600)in for those who wanted to try 
one,I tried one through a Mesa 50/50 Power amp and was impressed with the 
volume of there 50 watt tube power amp,but the price tag made it less desir-
able.($800) At $1400 without a speaker your over the price of a MKIII,but have
stereo capabilities. 

							Rick

    
    
    	While on the subject of power amps, can someone recommend a cheap 
    50W or so solid state power amp? I'm currently looking to unload my
    bass preamp, but if I could get a cheap power amp, I'd probably keep
    the preamp for low power gigs. 
    
    -Tom
    

    Buck, in your living room it was DAMN loud, but I practiced at our
    studio (about 600sq.ft) with it Sunday and played the whole time at
    FULL BLAST !  125wpc into (2) 4x12's.
    
    Now Greg is suggesting the the SGE isn't a pre-amp.  Perhaps I need to
    pre-amp it with Mikes Chandler.  I'll try it and let you know.
    
    If I were still in the Market, I'd spend the energy to try the Carver
    single space amp.  $500 and 175wpc !
    
    jc

RE < Note 1416.37 by ANT::JACQUES >

	Just to clear up a couple of possible misunderstandings...

>    and the PMA200 is basically an M2600 without a fan. The PMA200 is

	The M2600 also does not have a fan.  It depends on heat sinks in the 
rear for any cooling.

>    I paid $319 for my AMR amp, and I believe the Peavey M2600 can
>    be purchased for slightly more (like $399).

	I was in Union Music (Worcester, MA) this noon and they were selling a 
new M2600 for slightly over $300.  It appeared to be their normal price.

	Mark,  Is the AMR200 a rack mount amp?  If so, how many spaces?
    
	Dan

    
    I'm pretty sure the Dynaco is rated at 35 watts per channel into 8
    ohms (hence the Stereo 70 designation).  For around the house it's
    fine, but I doubt that it would be enough to play out.  Also, it's
    not made for rack mounting or carting around.
    
    My speakers are two homemade open-back cabinets with Mesa Boogie 
    Vintage 12" drivers.  The drivers are 8 ohms and rated to handle 50 
    watts each, so a really high power amp would not probably not be a 
    good idea.  I was thinking something in the 50 to 100 watt/channel 
    range would be good.  That's why I was interested in the ADA unit
    of (possibly) the Peavey M-2600.
    
    If you need 100 watts mono, what do you need in stereo?
    
    
    							John

    Dan,
    
    	An AMR PMA200 amp takes three rack spaces, and weighs 29 lb.
    They are about 14" deep, so they fit in most small racks. It has 
    unbalanced 1/4" input jacks, and 3-way binding post speaker outputs. 
    This amp features Peaveys DDT compression circuit, and has front 
    panel attenuators with LED meters. 
                                           
    	For the money it's a pretty good amp.
    
    	I wonder if there is much audible differance between a tube
    power amp and a transistor power amp, when it comes to guitar
    rigs. I would imagine there must be some differance, but is it
    enough to justify paying a higher price for the tube amp. Don't
    forget the maintainance costs associated with tube replacement
    and bias adjustments. Transistor amps are generally maintainance
    free and cost less to begin with.
    
    Mark
    

    Let's add speakers to the "Starter Rack System".  Let's start off
    with 2 12" cab speakers (1 for each channel), to maintain the
    original "practical" mode of this note.  What are the recommendations 
    here (include the vendor and speaker used if the vendor offers
    options)?  Mesa Boogie?  JBL?  Marshall?  TOA? 
    
    Mike    

    
    EV speakers are nice for guitar...very midrangey..very LA sounding.
    Celestions are, well, celestions...bright, buzzy, edgy tone.
    Pile Drivers...celestion clone, less $$$..used in GKs.  
    Gauss are neat..high effiecency, clean sounding...between an EV
     and a JBL
    JBL -- clean, sharp transients.  Not so great for rock, but great
     for squeaky clean applications!
    
    All of the above offers 10", 12", and 15" speakers.  Theres a rough
    estimate for what one may be looking for tone-wise.

	I guess my reply isn't well explained. In power amps an amp is 
tested with a 1k hz sine wave,to have 130 watts. Since the guitar range
is up to 1.3k hz most of the frequency's you would want to amplify are
below what the amp was tested at. I believe it is a fact that the lower
the frequency the more power you will need. I would assume or prefer to
have too much power than not enough as long as it doesn't break my back.
	The Tubes vs Solid State debate will always effect the amp 
industry. I can hear the difference between Tubes and Solid state,but
I doubt 90% of most audiences can. I've done A/B compares of Tubes to
Solid State and the differences are well known. I think if you can live
what solid state has to offer it can cut your maintenance cost's.
	For speakers the question that arise's is do you want to hear
the sound of the Preamp or do you want to color that sound? My intensions
are not to color the sound of the preamp. Therefore.....
	I prefer and use EV 12L8's(12") for a guitar speaker,they provide
a clean sound,and are efficient speakers. If I wanted to restore an old
Fender I'd use Celestion's something like a "Vintage 30" or the 10 inch
equiv. Eminence are decent cheap speakers as opposed to Pile's and presently
are Eminence are used in new Fender and Roland amp's as stock speakers.
	I'd recomend a high efficiency speaker for solid state power,but
    for tubes you may want to consider otherwise....	

    re..46
    
    	are we also including cab's? ported,theile,open back?

    Re: .49
    
    What I had in mind was just a simple enclosed box type speaker.  I
    received a Boogie catalog today.  I'd be interested in using something
    like their bass boxes for a guitar.
    
    Mike

      I'd have to say celestion and EV are the best two choices
    based on my experience. I have a KH112 speaker cab with one
    celestion GH100 speaker powered off my rack . I paid $195 for 
    it. A KH112 is a Kitty Hawk open back cab for one twelve inch 
    speaker. I also used my old KH112 cab for an effects rack. I pulled
    the speaker out, made a few modifications to the internal bracing,
    and mounted two rack rails (with spacers to make it 19"), and now
    I have a rack that is identical to my speaker cab. Looks great!
    I'm going to use the speaker I pulled out for a guitar monitor.
    I'll put the celestion G12-70M in a standard wedge monitor cab 
    for use at practice or on stages where the added coverage would
    help. 
     Another nice speaker for a rack would be the new Peavey 2X12
    cab. It comes with celestions or Peavey Scorpions and is reasonably
    priced. It also has stereo inputs and the top speaker is angled
    up like a Marshall top cab. It looks similar to the ADA 2X12 you
    see in ads. I think a small rack would sit on top OK as long as
    it wasn't too deep.
    

    
    Gallien Kreuger sells a series of rack-mountable speaker enclosures
    that can be wired either for mono or stereo operation. 
    
    Off the top of my head, I forget what size drivers, two 8" I think.

    							Brian

ART Delay System VII
--------------------
The advent of digital audio brought with it a whole new vocabulary.
Oversampling.  Quad Oversampling.  Digital filtering.  All terms to
describe compensation methods for what was musically altered in the
digital process.  The Delay System VII is a brand new professional
digital delay that may be the most transparent digital processor ever
built.  It is a programmable studio delay with virtually unlimited
variability of delay times and an incredibly wide range of modulation
control.  It is also a studio quality sampler, allowing you to
digitally record samples and play them back via manual or MIDI
trigger.  And it was designed for true studio performance, with none of
the harshness or brittleness that characterizes many delays.

The Delay System VII features rotary controls that allow for precise
adjustment of delay, feedback and modulation speed and width.  Delay
times can be "tweaked" to fit within the meter of any musical
composition.  They may then be stored and recalled at will!

The feedback control allows you to manually sweep the number of
repeats from soft doubling to continuous multiple echos.

The heart of the Delay System VII is ART's new Harmonically Accurate
circuitry.  The architecture surrounding the digital-to-analog
converters is constructed in such a way that there is no smearing of
the high frequency material in the program source.  Full 20-20kHz
frequency response ensures accurate reproduction of the most complex
audio signals.  The true lack of coloration make the processed signal
sound as natural as the dry source!  It's like having the natural
reproduction of a tape echo but with no loss of signal quality!

- A dedicated, studio designed professional digital delay/sampler
- Studio quality echos, delays, doubling, flanging, chorusing
- Full programmability and storage capability
- 20-20kHz frequency response
- Infinite delay and feedback variability
- ART's new Harmonically Accurate circuitry
- Infinite repeat capability
- Variable function footswitch control
- Ultra-wide sweep of modulation width and speed
- MIDI-interface; activate via external MIDI source

List is $499


ART Delay System V
------------------
The Delay System V features the same amazing audio circuitry and
specifications as the VII but is available at an even lower price.
The Delay System V features the same 20-20kHz frequency response and
the ability to process an almost infinite range of delay effects.
Echos, delay, frequency, chorusing, doubling and many other effects
can be varied widely via the manual rotary controls.  Like the Delay
System VII, it features four delay ranges and switchable infinite
repeat and bypass.  Input, output and mix controls are also standard.
The unit can be triggered via footswitch.  Both ART delays are
designed fro professional applications and perform all delay functions
with a transparency and musicality that is unmatched by processors
costing several times as much.  For applications where the absolute
best in delay effects is required, the answer is the ART Delay
Systems.

List is $349

editor's note:

Looking past the marketing hype, the System V doesn't have the sampler
that the System VII has.

Mike

    Would anyone change their rack recommendations in here if your
    configuration called for the use of acoustic/electrics as well as
    electrics?
    
    Mike

    I doubt you would want to play an acoustic/electric through most
    of these racks. 
    
    I can think of two or more scenarios for acoustic amplification.
    One is to use an Ovations or Takamine guitar with built-in bridge
    pickups, and on-board preamps. These can go straight into the PA
    and can be controlled right from the preamp. The soundman could
    add efx like reverb, etc in moderation.
    
    An acoustic could have a Martin Thinline pickup installed, with
    or without a preamp. Preamps can be installed inside the guitar,
    or can be clipped to your beltclip. There is also something called
    a pendulum acoustic guitar preamp. This is a 1 rack space unit
    with a 6 band parametric eq, and a phantom powered volume control
    unit which plugs into the end-pin jack of the guitar. This preamp
    has an efx loop, and line level and instrument level stereo outputs.
    I would not use the pendulum preamp with any guitar that already
    has a built-in preamp, but I would think this preamp is infinately
    superior to the small belt-clip units. For the cost of a Pendulum
    preamp, I suspect you could probably buy an Ovations of Takamine
    acoustic/electric guitar, so either way, I would go with the guitar 
    with on-board preamp and keep it simple.
    
    Another inexpensive rack-mount preamp that would probably work well 
    with acoustic guitars is the Ashley preamp that many people use for 
    bass guitar. The model number escapes me (SC50 comes to mind ?), but 
    these can be purchased for about $180 (new) and have a four-band 
    parametric eq. I think they also have an efx loop.
    
    Mark
    

I've run my Tak through my rack and out the Rivera with pretty good results...
of course you use the clean channel....

dbii

    I just happened to have my sights set on a Takamine 6 string w/4
    band EQ, etc.  
    
    Re: dbii
    
    I'm glad to hear you have good results with yours.  No sense is
    buying different components for different guitars, IMO.  
    
    I've seen artists, performing live, that used electrics and acoustics
    powered by the Mesa Boogie 295 Simul-Class amps with excellent results.
    
    Mike

	For a starter rack I'd recommend checking out the following:


	Mesa Boogie Studio 22 Preamp
	Alesis Midiverb II
	Crown D150 or DC300a
	2 12 cab EV loaded

	I would use it with an acoustic/electric,ovation,ferrinton etc.
    and other electric guitar's,it has the flexibility to play a variety of 
    styles of music. Price's may vary.

   					

    
    Hi,
    
     I don't know if you get Carlsbro Sherwoods over in the US. They
    are designed specially for electric acoustics with a parametric
    on one of the input channels and a tweeter. 
    
    Rob

    RE: .59 Not Bad, the Crown is expensive stuff and is better suited
    for sound reinforcement. Unless you got a good deal on a Crown I
    would look at the others mentioned earlier in this topic. 
    
    RE: .58 - .57 Sure- I've used my Ovation thru the rack, If you did
    so often enough I would dedicate a bank of patches for acoustic
    just so you avoid hitting any patches with a lot of gain which would
    cause a lot of pain ( to your ears, that is).

    
    	This seems like the proper place to enter my request.
    
    	I have been seriously thinking about replacing my pedal board
    with an effects processor (too noisy, not versatile, etc.). The
    ones I have heard about are the Alesis Quadraverb, ART SGE, Roland
    GP-8 (or GP-16?), and the Boss ME-5. Could anyone who has experience
    with these devices kindly give me some information that might influence
    my purchase? Are there similar processors available that I haven't
    mentioned (that give the same bang for the buck)?  I've heard good
    things about the Quadraverb, but I've also heard that the SGE blows
    it away.
    	
    	Some of the info I'm looking for:
    
    	- how many effects and what are they?
    
    	- how many simultaneous effects?
    
    	- are all presets fully programmable?
    
    	- is it midi-compatable?
    
    	- is it rack mount, or not?
    
    	- will it accept instrument and/or line level signals?
    
    	- can it be used as a pre-amp (ie. direct into mains)?
    
    	- cost/performance factor
    
    	- does it have a footswitch and how does it select a particular
          preset? 
          
    	- any other neat features (LCD/LED displays, etc.)
            
    Thanks in advance.
    - Bruce S.
    

    I haven't seen that anyone has compiled a 'comparison table' of these
    units.  The closest I've seen was short reviews of many of them in the
    June'89 issue of Guitar Player.  There are notes here that describe
    most of the various units in pretty good detail.
    
    Of the ones you mentioned, they are all rack mountable except the ME-5. 
    The effects combination that you need may make you decision easier (ie,
    Quadraverb does not have distortion, GSP-5 does not do pitch
    transposition, GP-8 doesn't have reverb).
    
    I personally feel that the SGE is the best all around, full functional
    multieffects unit available.  It's also priced reasonably so it's very
    good "bang for the buck".
    
    You mentioned comparing the SGE and the Quadraverb.  I'd suggest that
    you look through the 'SGE' note, as that topic was breached there.  My
    opinion is that the Quadraverb is a great unit if you don't need
    distortion, an exciter, or good pitch transposition.  I *think* it's EQ
    is better then the 3band in the SGE.  It's also about $100 or so less
    then an SGE.
    	
    Hope this helps,
    Greg

    do a dir/title="gp8" for the note on the GP8 and the ME5.
         
    There are hundreds of notes in here about all the units you
    inquired about, and it shouldn't be necessary to rehash it all.
    I suggest you start by re-reading this not and all it's replies.
    
    Mark
    

      I thought I might add that there are a few other rack mount units
    out there that may warrant consideration. Try it before you buy
    it. of course. Both Peavey and KMD have rack mount pieces on the
    market. I used to have a KMD hybrid (tube/trans) head that really
    had some good sounds for its price. Their rack line I believe is
    called STAXX. I know Peavey is jumping on the rack bandwagon as
    well (who isn't). Pick up a Monitor magazine to check it out.
      Some of these considerations may lower the cost of the "Starter
    Rack". 
    
    					RACK & ROLL
    
    					    j.r.

    Just a note here on preamps....
    
    I *was* using a ART SGE as a preamp to my metaltronix power amp,
    and wasn't real happy with not having a master volume parameter
    on the SGE.  I found myself running my power amp real loud and the
    clean tone was always louder than the dirty tone.
    
    Greg House suggested that the SGE is not a preamp.  He is RIGHT!
    This past Thursday I purchased an MP1 and am now using it as a preamp.
    With the MP1 doing the preamping and the SGE doing the FX (without
    distortion!) I'm finally getting the mega-rip-yor-gnads-off tone
    I was looking for.  I'm a happy camper, but I guess I don't have
    a starter rack anymore either, so I'll shudup now.
    
    BTW - With the power amp on "2", and the MP1 on 5, the paint starts
    to peel off the walls, and the faint-hearted run for cover.  Quite
    the improvement over the SGE stand-alone.
    
    jc (Who sez PRE amp it !)

    >I'm finally getting the mega-rip-yor-gnads-off tone I was looking for.
    
    So *that's* what happened to 'em...   ;^)
    
    >Greg House suggested that the SGE is not a preamp.  He is RIGHT!
    
    Well, I was just repeating what the guy at ART told me, I don't take
    much credit for it.  Glad things worked out for ya though!
    
    Greg

    
    Hey jc,
    
    Quote from recent test: "The chorus is the best we have heard in
    a multi-effects device, and one of the few that offers all of the
    parameters we feel are important building blocks of the chorus
    effect...".  I agree totally, the chorus on the SGE is a very very
    good chorus and by far the best that I've heard also, regardless
    of digital or analog.  I suggest using the SGE chorus and adjust
    the paremeters within it, I'm sure you could come up with the same
    exact sound or pretty close to what your getting from your MP1.
    
    Plus, couldn't you try it through an effects loop?  Or going directly
    from instrument to SGE then to MP1?  Just a suggestion.
    
    Mr. Ed...absolutely amazed at what the SGE did with may bass.
    

    Oh, don't get me wrong, I still LOVE my SGE...I'm just sharing my
    observations.  It's a great unit.
    
    Actually, what I am do is get a rackmount mixer and mix the outs
    of the MP1 AND the SGE...into the amp.  Should sound KILLER !
    Esp. if there is a such thing as a midi mixer...Oh-oh, I smell
    a new topic comin' on...
    
    jc

    
    Hey jc,
    
    I'm sorta gonna do the same thing with my bass rig after it's complete.
    I'm gonna take the dry out and plug into channel a and then take
    the wet (effected signal) and plug it into channel b.  The peirce
    has alot of effects loops and the possibilities are endless.  Its
    got an effects loop on each channel, an overall effects loop (for
    both channels), etc...  I'll try it a bunch of ways until I like
    what I hear.  After all are any of us really ever completely satisfied
    with our sound?
    
    Mr. Ed...

    I could have sworn I put a response in here before, but I don't see it
    now...   {insert Twilight Zone theme music}
    
    Anyway, I have a similar setup to what Jeff's using and I have no
    problems using the chorus on the MP-1 through the SGE.  I use this
    quite a bit, since if you have a long delay set on the SGE, or big time
    reverb, it won't let you chorus at the same time.
    
    ART claim that the SGE is FULLY STEREO, not STEREO IMAGING.  This is
    pretty emphatically stated in the manual.
    
    Like I told Jeff offline, there are a lotta effects that will squash a
    chorus when you run through them (distortion, compression), maybe it
    has to do with the SGE patch selected.
    
    (BTW Jeff, I did retest this this weekend and it worked just like I
    remembered it.  I didn't get a chance to test it in stereo mode though
    since my poweramp is bridged to mono and I would have had to take it
    apart to change that and I didn't have time to take it apart.  I'll try
    that on Wed. though.)
    
    Greg

re: .72

If it takes a mono input and generates a stereo output it's Stereo imaging

think about it

dbii

    I tried a little experiment which proved to be interesting.  I wired up
    my rack in MONO and the MP1 chorus came shining thru.  I guess the
    answer to my own question is that the processing in the SGE throws the
    out of phase (chorused) signal from the MP1 back INTO phase (or
    something like that)...  Anyhow, I've spent enough time with the
    SGE so I can emulate that MP1 chorus pretty well with it.  I'm happy
    with it now.  ;^)
    
    jc (Who sez nothing works right until you tweak all night!)

re: jc (Who sez nothing works right until you tweak all night!)

Sometimes the next day my quadraverb patches seems a little bizzarre though...

dbii

    Agagagagagagaga...
    
    I hear ya... You ought to try playing with a pitch transposer after
    a few too many brewskies...
    
    Anyone wanna trade a Q-Verb for an SGE ??
    
    jc

    re: .73

>If it takes a mono input and generates a stereo output it's Stereo imaging

    C'mon Dave, I'm not *totally* stupid.

    It has stereo inputs.  The documentation says that it only does it's
    mono to stereo conversion if only one input is present.  I guess I
    sounded a little emphatic about that, probably as a result of the very
    full description I put into the note that somewhere got lost.

    Anyway, I tried the MP-1/SGE combination in stereo briefly and got the
    same type result that Jeff did (little or no chorus from the MP-1).  I
    didn't have time to try some pretty essential followup testing (like
    reversing the inputs) because I was doing it hurriedly right before band
    practice and had to put it back to play.

    I don't know what happens, but the SGE documentation explicitly states
    that it takes stereo input.

    Greg
                                  

re: .77 oops sorry...as I understood it it's just like everything else,
pseudo-stereo (not that that's so bad, ALesis Roland Yamaha etc. have all been
selling pseudo-stereo quite sucessfully for years now)

dbii

    Yo Coop,
    
    db_ii and I are gonna have a Amp vs. Rack system volume war...wanna
    get in on the fight?
    ;^)

Wow new travels fast....

Yuk yuk yuk

dbii

I'd be there, but I'd probably have to travel 1000 miles to make it.
Can I win by proxy ??  ;)

jc (Who sez: Metaltronix !  Built to blast !)

PS - Figured out how using the DSP-128 I can use my Marshall AND my Kittyhawk 
     AND my rack all at the same time.  Sounds pretty Scary eh ??

      
      I'm only about 350 miles away. Hmmmmm - some serious destruction
    could go down here if I run the KH stack from the KH/SP rack. And
    then if there's any doubts as to decibelation, then I'll just
    have to let the Kitty Hawk M1 100 watt stack have a showdown with
    the JCM900 until the EL34's meltdown. 
      Wait a minute - I don't want to end up like Pete Townsend! 
    I decline and I'm content.

    						--|BOOM|--
    

    Trust me Coop - all the kings horses, all the kings men, racks,
    Marshalls, Kittys, you name it ... will NOT make you sound "Scary".
    
    
    
    
    				Scary

 Digital - Announcing VAX 6000 systems in rackmount form
	{Livewire, 25-May-90}
   Digital has announced a Rackmount VAX 6000 system -- an ideal solution for 
 OEMs, systems integrators, and customers with special packaging requirements
 in such applications as telecommunications and manufacturing, or in various
 defense applications or hostile environments.
   Rackmount VAX 6000 systems are Digital's VAX 6000 computers housed in a
 19-inch wide Electronic Industry Association (EIA) industry-standard,
 rack-mountable format. Two Rackmount VAX 6000 systems may be mounted in one
 cabinet. These two configurations use a cabinet that is 77-inches high, less
 than 23 inches wide and occupies just a little more than 5 square feet.
   Rackmount VAX 6000 systems are individually configured to meet diverse 
 customer needs. Any VAX 6000 system, including special configurations, can be
 ordered in the 19-inch format.  

But how many effects will it do at once?

;^)

Symetric Multi-Processing in a rack.

Coooooooooollllll man....

;)

    
    Look at it this way JC, you can read notes between songs 8^)

    
      ... Yeah !!! I'll start work on a T12AX7 module for the
    BI right away. Let me see - four preamp tubes on the module,
    high-resolution A to D conversion for dynamic digital effects
    controlled by the KA62X, D to A back to a full tube power amp
    w/ modified airflow enhancements, Hmmmmm---
    15,512 patches storable in memory with 2,255,000 storable on RA70.
      
    						---|BOOM|---
    
    						

    Re: BI
    
    You mean XMI!
    
    Mike

    At DECtech, Raytheon displayed a militarized, rackmounted, VAX 6220. 
    It came complete with a "battle override" switch for hot & heavy
    conflict, as well nuclear detection devices and special automatic
    overrides for nuclear battle.
    
    Awesome setup!
    
    Mike

    Not continue down this rathole of drivel, but .90 gives a whole new
    meaning to Nuclear Assault.
    
    	joe.

    re: 90 + 91
    
    Yes, DECtech 1st generation terminator, replace the humans '!'
    
    
    rj

    re .84
    
    I hear Rick Calcagni has some killer mods for the XMI
    on these babies...How about it, Rick?...or should we 
    wait for the book.
    
    -Tom

    I forgot to mention before that the Raytheon version is going onto the
    next space shuttle, cluster style.
    
    Mike

    Didn't know where else to put this (I hate creating new topics ;-))...
    
    Anyone know anything about the Boss CE300 rackmounted chorus?  Does it
    just do chorus?  How many presets? etc.
    
    It seems I see a lot of people going to separate dedicated effects 
    components lately.  For example, the above for chorus, a separate
    reverb unit, separate delay unit, etc.  Would this allow for greater
    signal integrity and/or flexibility?
    
    Mike

    The CE300 is very a very good dedicated chorus unit.  Len Fehskens in
    COMMUSIC has at least one that I know of.  It is not a multi-memory
    unit, though.  It is like a foot pedal in that it only does chorus and
    you can turn knobs to vary the sound.
    
    Boss sold a half-rack chorus unit similar to this one (RCE-10, I
    think).  the main difference between these two that I recall is that
    the half-rack version had a delay on the modulation circuitry.
    
    Dan
    

    The CE-300 is a member of a line of chorus units produced by Roland
    and Boss that IMO are distinctly superior to anything else.
    
    However, they won't sound that way unless you run them in true stereo.
    
    The real advantage to these units is that they use two independent
    delay circuits to achieve the stereo effect.  Most units achieve
    "stereo" by lower-cost, less effective means, some of which, IMHO,
    ruin the sound (like phase inversion which makes it sound very thin).

    Yeah but can it still be ordered?  I've heard one (local band) and
    thought it sounded great!
    
    Mike