Conference napalm::guitar

    
    It's interesting that compared to some headphone amps (such as those
    in Walkman stereos and a Yamaha headphone amp that I use) the Rockmans
    really can't get that loud.  Scholz may have had that in mind when
    he designed it.

    I challenge Townshend's assertion that it was headphones, 
    and not concerts that wrecked his hearing. How does he 
    know? At one point the Who were in the Guiness Book of 
    records as the loudest rock band. If I recall, it was 
    125 decibels at 50 yds. It seems to me that kind of abuse
    would go a long way towards ruining your ears.

    I wonder if wearing the new, lightweight headphones makes
    a difference.  I remember hearing, once, that the older
    style headphones that completely cover the whole ear are
    much more destructive than the lighter, Walkman, style.
    
    Unfortunately, I can't cite any sources.
    
    My guess is that Pete has used the older "full-ear" style headphones
    over the years.  He also maintains, in the MUSICIAN article, that
    alcohol delays the ear's self-protection mechanism and that he
    frequently practiced drunk.  Hmmm.
    
    As I understand it, the ear has a physical mechanism that closes
    (not unlike a fist) to block out dnagerous frequencies.  It is that
    sudden blast of feedback or unexpected high-decibel noise that
    "tricks" this mechanism and renders the most damage to an ear.
    
    A friend of mine is completely deaf in one ear as a result of someone
    firing a gun next to his ear as a joke.

    
    	My ears dont ring when I use headphones. I think it has to do
    with how loud I choose to listen. I *could* crank it up to be just
    as loud as "live"....
    
    	Joe Jas
    

    The suddenness of the loudness and the ear closing like a fist is
    interesting. Over a friends house I was playing a solid electric 
    quietly through a cheepo amp, that didn't bother a baby sleeping. 
    The cheepo amp has 2.5 watts, and handles real changes in volume 
    suddenly like a, well, poorly. But when I yanked out my real good 
    concert guitar, ( classical guitar ) it sounded ALOT louder.
    same for my 100 watt head, set up not louder than the cheepie,
    the sudden changes in volume are far more pronounced, alot more.
     

	Maybe this "self-defense mechanism" accounts for the phenomenom of 
gradully turning up your amp as the night progresses...

	As for the Rockman argument, I've been using one for over a year now
to practice and for those of you who haven't tried one, they really *don't* go
that loud.  Whether or not this is enough to damage your hearing, I couldn't
say, but I certainly haven't noticed any difference in my hearing or the level
at which I play when I'm with the band.  I also listened to music through
the old-style headphones at what would probably be considered "unsafe" volumes
for years - mostly to appease my parents, "Turn down that racket, it sounds
like small animals being tortured!".  We're talking Black Sabbath, Led Zep,
early KISS, AC/DC here, not Neil Diamond.

	When I went for my pre-employment physical a bit over one year ago,
I told the nurse that I listened to rock music loud and also played in a
band.  She was agast, and very determined to find some degree of hearing loss.
She passed a tuning fork (about 1KHz, if I remember correctly) around the back
of my head and asked me to raise my hand when I could no longer hear the sound.
Needless to say, my hearing was perfeclty intact.  This ruined her day, 
especially when I read the eye chart all the way to the bottom...

	So much for the "Rock and Roll will ruin your hearing" theory.
				
							Brad

A rockman or a walkthing is loud enough to do damage. I quit using my headphone
amp three years ago as it became obvious that the ringing in my ears after using
it was telling me something. I'm certain that a walkthing or rockman will 
deliver at least a milliwatt and that's enough at close range to do damage.

re: ? Pete lays most of the blame on headphones, not all. Entwistle, who shared 
the same stage at the same volumes hasn't nearly as bad a problem as Pete, he 
has a problem, as does Daltry (according the Entwistle anyway) but nothing like
Pete's. 

Ten years ago my hearing was above average, after 1000+ hours of exposure to 
E2-B noises and 4 years of working the flight deck of an aircraft carrier. 
nothing I have ever heard is as loud as a flight deck. An A6 on a catapult is
loud enough to penetrate both micky mouse ears and earplugs and cause physical
pain. At the time I discharged I could still hear above 18Khz with less than 
5db drop accross all freqs, astounding hearing according to the doctors. 
Yet today I'm severely impared in one ear. You can live with loud noise for a 
long time with little measurable effect, then one day you notice that it isn't 
what it used to be. Today my ears ring ALL the time, and worse after practice 
(with the band) or after playing. I now wear earplugs to concerts, and my own 
gigs.

Take it for what it's worth.

dbii

    re .0    Just a nit
    
    Watts cannot damage your hearing, it's sound pressure that's
    important. SPL depends on the efficiency of the phones and the 
    power you drive into them. Headphones "sensitivity" is rated 
    in (SPL/1 watt) or the sound pressure level (in db) when driven
    with 1 watt. I doubt if 1mw would even begin to drive an efficient
    set of headphones. Most personal stereos have a small integrated 
    circuit which serves as the preamp and power amp. These generally 
    are limited to producing between 100 to 500mw. 
    
    At home, I can connect headphones up to my Tandberg reciever and
    switch the speakers off. It has an analog power meter on the front 
    panel so you can tell exactly how much power you are driving. I have 
    cranked 10 watts into a set of Yamaha closed-type headphones. Sure,
    it was loud, but not loud enough to damage my ears or the headphones.
    I believe these headphones are rated at ~ 94db/1w. Keep in mind,
    the exponential curve between power and SPL. 10 watts will not be
    10 times "louder" than 1 watt. It will push you up the curve but only
    by about 5-8 db. With 10 watts, I believe these headphones are
    approaching the 100db point which is LOUD. The threshold of pain
    is something like 120db (most jackhammers produce about 115db which
    is very close to the threshold of pain).
    
    I'm not saying that headphones cannot effect your hearing, but I
    believe you would really have to go out of your way and drive them
    *hard* to develop anough SPL to cause any permanent hearing loss.
          
    Mark
    

    From the "Healthline" bulletin distributed by Greater Malboro Area
    Health Services...
    
    Call 1-800-222-EARS for a quick and easy (but non-diagnostic) hearing
    test...
    
    Edd

    I called the number in -.1 and was referred to a local number at
    the U Mass Medical Center where I took the test.
    
    I heard all the tones in a noisy office....
    
    Edd

	I did sound for awhile and ran across a phenomena sometimes
	referred to as "threshold shift".  Basically, the idea is that if
	you listen to loud stuff for a long time your threshold of
	audibility moves upward so that you become less sensitive to soft
	sounds.  This became real apparent when I would go in in the
	morning and crank up something I liked for an hour or two before
	I had to start running shows.  On the days that I indulged myself
	with some early morning Zappa or Pink Floyd, I would get
	complaints that I was running the shows too loud.  Two points: 1)
	Those particular artists are not specifically to blame. 2) IMO,
	loud stuff with really loud peaks tend to accelerate this effect.
	 Threshold shift is initially a temporary thing, but if
	overstimulation becomes chronic it can develop into a permanent
	handicap. 

    The number to call for the free hearing test in the Nashua area
    is 437-3277.  
    
    I heard all the tones but the second tone seemed a quieter than
    all the other tones.  Of course I did listen to the neighbors band
    jam kinda loud last night ;-).
    
    
    Don

       Either you (as a musician/lover of music) are aware of the fact
    that high SPL's can and will ruin your hearing, or you don't accept
    it. Ten years from now, when you say, "maybe those guys *were* right", 
    it'll be too late.     It's *your* choice to do what you want.        
    
    It's like the old expression, "pay me now, or pay me later".
    
    For what it's worth:                                                
    Maximum noise limit values or TLV's (which refer to sound pressure 
    levels and durations of exposure that represent conditions under 
    which it is believed that nearly all "workers" may be repeatedly 
    exposed WITHOUT adverse effect on their ability to hear and 
    understand normal speech) are;
    
    Sound Level (dBA)             Duration per day (HOURS) maximum
                                                  
     	 80 (*)  		          16 
    	 85                                8
    	 90                                4
    	 95                                2
    	100                                1
    	105                              1/2
    	110                              1/4
    	115(**)                          1/8
    
    (*)  - 80 dBA is like driving in a fairly noisy car driving 60mph
           on Rt 495 w/o the radio on.
    (**) - NO exposure to continuous or intermittent in excess of 115dBA_.
    
    	I'm sure there are those that will say that this chart may not
        be accurate and that this table is worthless, but like I said...
        it is YOUR choice. 
    
    	Fred
                                      

    Hmmmm, well due to your chart Fred, when Jam Vac plays at 125db
    for a 4 hr rehearsal, is that why my ears ring??
    
    

    
    	well, i contend my hearing is damaged. I have to crank the 
    volume way up in order to hear things the way i'd like. I continually
    miss out on the first words someone else mutters. I also unfailingly
    pass ear tests.  Maybe i've proved that rock music does cause
    brain-damage:-)
    
    	bs

    RE: .14
    
    	Yeah, Buck.  It's like directing jets to and from the terminals
    at Logan Airport without ear protection ;^)

    If your ears ring, then you screwed up your hearing...  The longer
    it takes to have them stop ringing, the worse you screwed up.
    
    JV practices at 125 db(A) ?  Sheeesh.  Your lucky your not deaf
    already ! 

    jc (who thought *he* played loud !)

    RE:14
   
     	Well Buck...    
                 
                  Buck? 
    
    
                                    YO BUCK! 
                                    
    Remember Rik Sawyer's jam at his house a while back? He had that
    band (that practiced) there remember? When you were jammin' with
    those guys you drove the rest of us outside! It was sooooo loud,
    I for the life of me couldn't understand *how* you guys could
    handle it. Buck... it was painful for me to even stand in the
    room! Watch that volume... I SAID, "WATCH THAT VOLUME BUCK!!!!"
    
    The ears you save, might be your own!
    
    Fred (who tries real hard to watch the volume, but loses control
            of it every now and then)  :^)
  
      --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    "This has been an unpaid, non-political, but accurate (I think) statement"
                                                               
    

    Anyone remember the first WinterJam??
    
    The final set was SO loud that the woman I was attempting to talk to
    had to SCREAM at the top of her lungs directly into my ear and I STILL
    couldn't hear her....
    
    Rediculously loud. Unneeded. Painful. My ears rang well into Sunday...
    
    Edd

    
      There's an old saying at the (so called) complex i used to practice
    in.
    
    
    
      If you can't dazzle them with talent, baffle them with volume.
     (-:
    
    
    
    
                                                                   
         dave