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Conference napalm::guitar

Title:GUITARnotes - Where Every Note has Emotion
Notice:Discussion of the finer stringed instruments
Moderator:KDX200::COOPER
Created:Thu Aug 14 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:3280
Total number of notes:61432

1279.0. "Wild In The Streets" by AQUA::ROST (The closer I am to fine) Mon Apr 24 1989 19:51

    
    I have been asked by some friends of mine to participate in a street
    band this summer.  It's a good way to spend some summer nights, out
    on the streets playing music, sucking in carbon monoxide, getting
    money thrown at you, etc.
    
    Anyway, to do this, I need some battery powered amplification for my
    bass.  I have narrowed it to three choices: 
    
    1.  Peavey KB-15
    
    This is a battery/AC amp for keyboards that runs on either 8 D cells
    or an AC adapter.  I have given it a quick audition with a bass
    and the speaker breaks up somewhat but is usable.  There is a headphone
    jack that could be rewired to drive a bass cab.  10 watts RMS, bass
    and treble controls.  Seen as cheap as $80.  Unsure if generic ni-cads
    will power the amp OK, if so, throw in maybe $60 or so for a set
    of rechargable batteries and a charger for them.
    
    2.  Mouse
    
    Lots of folks use these on the street.  Has a built-in rechargable
    battery pack, comes with the charger.  I tried this with a bass,
    forget it, the speaker broke up immediately.  No speaker jack, I
    would have to put one in myself and immediately void my warranty.
    8 watts RMS, single tone control.  About $200 new.
    
    3. Maxi-Mouse
    
    As the name implies, a dual channel mouse with filter settings for
    voice or instrument.  Intended for amplifying a mike and instrument
    at the same time.  This has separate volume and tone for each channel,
    master volume and a speaker jack.  Have yet to hear if the on-board
    speaker can be used for bass, but would be surprised if it is any
    different than the regular Mouse.  About $240 new.

    So the bottom line is cost is minimized with the Peavey *if* I can
    run it on rechargable batteries OK, otherwise, I drop $12 on batteries
    every time I go out.  After  a dozen nights, the Mouse starts being
    cheaper.  However, with its own speaker, the Peavey sounds better
    and I would expect with an external cab, it would still sound better.
    I have resigned myself to using an external cab, either my 15" EAW
    or perhaps build a small cab for a 12" which is mounted in my old
    Lowrey organ.  I am also considering using a compressor (and maybe
    EQ) stomp box to try to maximize my acoustic output.  I will be
    stuffing everything except the bass and the speaker cab into a backpack
    for ease of transport.
    
    Anyone out there tried this before who wants to share some wisdom?  
T.RTitleUserPersonal
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1279.1My recommendation is...ELESYS::JASNIEWSKIWe're part of the fire that is burning!Tue Apr 25 1989 12:0720
    
    	No. I've never tried it. Personally, I wouldnt even consider
    *any* of the commercially available "street" units -  especially for
    bass - they're all a joke, in my opinion.            
    
    	A much better approach can be had via your own efforts. Start
    with a good, 20WPC, stereo "graphic EQ" or even better (but more
    expensive), a 20WPC "powerplate" for car audio - one with line inputs.
    
    	Forget using "D" cells - those are for kid's toys. Get yourself
    a couple of 12V, 5AH lead acid motorcycle batteries, and build a
    enclosure for them; use a "battery eliminator" to charge 'em.
    
    	Get 2 speakers with some diamater - 12" minimum if you want to
    be heard at all. Mebbe the batteries can be installed in the cab!?!
    
    	All you'll need is something to drive the power amplifier -
    
    	Joe Jas
    
1279.2Trying To Keep It SimpleAQUA::ROSTThe closer I am to fineTue Apr 25 1989 13:3421
    
    Gee, Joe, you're overreacting....I've heard plenty of street musicians
    and the idea is not to have super fidelity or even *lots* of volume.
    
    The Mouse is the amp of choice for almost everybody who plays the
    streets in Boston, it just doesn't cut it for bass with its 8" speaker.
    10 watts is plenty with an efficient cab. 
    
    The other thing to keep in mind is portability.  Ideally, I need to get
    everything except the cab and bass into a backpack (i.e. amp, stomp
    boxes, cables), toss the bass into a gig bag, and only have a (small)
    speaker to lug around.  The 12" is a compromise for size, I could
    always use my 15" Thiele cab but it is harder to move around than I
    would like. I considered the "homemade battery pack route" but it's not
    nearly as portable, so I rejected it. Power and portability are
    inversely proportional, the more power I use (i.e. like a car power
    booster) the more battery power I need. As far as driving a power amp,
    that's easy, I already have an LPB-1  8^)  8^)  8^)  8^) 

    The idea about stuffing batteries into the cab is actually a real
    good idea, I hadn't thought of that....
1279.3Real tube battery portable!?!ELESYS::JASNIEWSKIWe're part of the fire that is burning!Tue Apr 25 1989 15:1431
    
    	Car power boosters may take less current that you think. With
    one 5AH motorcycle battery, I can run my booster for 10 hours at
    idle, one hour at 10W/ch continuous. Unless your compressing, the
    bass signal has a fairly quick envelope, so "continuous" is debatable
    - you'll do better than an hour.
    
    	Running one channel only at 10W "peak", you may get past two
    hours of operation. With two batteries, you'll get 4 hours - that's
    a lot of street playing!
    
    	Like I say, "D" cells are for toys. The barrier between "toy"
    and "serious" is the battery type. With a $50 investment, you could
    get two M/C batteries that would last for *years* with some care and
    maintainance. Or, perhaps you could get those nice sealed Gates
    rechargable lead acid batteries...They may cost more.
    
    	A simple setup would be to include the battery, amplifier and
    charger all in the speaker cab. Just carry the whole to wherever
    you're going; you'd need to bring your preamp too. When you get back 
    home, just plug it in overnight and it's all ready to go for the next 
    day.
         
    	I guess the point of my excitement is, with "just a little"
    ingenuity, you can develop your own system which will out perform
    any "commercial portable" by factors of perhaps "10" or maybe even 
    "100"!
    
    	Stay away from trying to run Tubes off batteries, however. ;')
    
    	Joe Jas                                          
1279.4In Search of Battery PacksAQUA::ROSTThe closer I am to fineTue Apr 25 1989 20:1127
    
    I've already looked into sealed rechargable packs, Gates, Panasonic,
    Dryfit, Yuasa and others make them.  I can get 12V packs in 6AH size
    for about $35-50 and 10AH for about $70.  I also have spotted a
    rechargable pack from Johnson with a charger included, uses a standard
    cigarette lighter jack for charge *and* output, comes in a leather
    case, 12V/9AH for $79.  These prices seem reasonable to me.  I
    would still probably take the Peavey amp over a car booster, though. 
    With a 10AH battery driving an amp rated at 10 watts RMS, I could probably
    get close to 8 hours off a charge even running full tilt...I need
    at least 4 hours continuous operation to be safe.  One advantage
    of the Peavey unit is I can always use D cells in an emergency.
        
    How difficult is it to charge these things?  I saw one charger listed
    at $55 !!!  But the Johnson unit looks like a wall bug !!??  The
    question I'm asking I guess is how do you current limit to protect
    aginst trying to charge too fast?  I noticed the $55 charger allowed
    "float" charging but that sounds like something you would use for an
    uninterruptable power system.  

    I talked to Lectrosonics, who makes Mouse, today and got the impression
    that they use sealed packs rather than nicads (the person on the
    phone was frustratingly non-technical).  The list price on
    a Maxi-Mouse, BTW is $375!!! Pretty steep for such a thing when
    you realize that a Boogie 22 only costs $500.
    

1279.5Caution! Caution! Caution!!!ELESYS::JASNIEWSKIWe're part of the fire that is burning!Wed Apr 26 1989 12:0026
    
    	Hey! I guess when you get your *name*, you can charge anything!
    Mebbe the next "rat" distortion pedal will cost $250 -
    
    	I wish to make a general note of caution here, concerning the
    idea of installing lead acid batteries in speaker cabinets, which
    I purported in an earlier reply.
    
    	Lead acid batteries emit hydrogen gas when charged. Ideally,
    because of this, they are usually kept in well ventilated places;
    the inside of a speaker cab is no such place. You can guess what
    will happen with a spark, and a speaker cab filled with H and O2...
    
    	The speaker cone would make it's last excursion.
    
    	Motorcycle batteries provide a tube by which these gases can
    be brought out elsewhere. If you put one of these in a speaker cab,
    this vent MUST be brought to the outside. Preferably, mount the
    battery on a carrier attached to the back of the cab so that it's
    out in the open and no explosive gasses can collect in a confined
    compartment.
    
    	Whew!
    
    	Joe Jas
    
1279.6DC-powered amp from Rat Shack, $50AQUA::ROSTThe closer I am to fineFri Apr 28 1989 18:2610
    
    Just to add more confusion:
    
    I got a Radio Shack flyer today and saw advertised a 20 watt "PA"
    amplifier.  Two 1/4" inputs with individual volumes, "aux" input
    with volume, master volume and tone, 20 watts into 8 ohms, 4/8/16
    ohm speaker taps, runs on AC or 12VDC (AC cord and cigarette lighter
    cords provided).  Regularly $80, on sale this month for $50, hmmm....
    
    
1279.7$.02ANT::JACQUESMon May 01 1989 14:4026
    Just a thought. They make plastic battery boxes for boats that
    accomidate a regular car-sized battery. If you could find one
    small enough for a motorcycle battery, it would be a good idea
    to use to contain any spills. Joe, if you are planning on building
    a rig with 2 motorcycle batteries, you could probably fit 2 or
    more (plus a battery eliminator) into a marine battery box, and
    fashion a carrying strap for maximum portability. 
    
    I currently have a Pignose, which plays reasonably loud with fresh
    batterys, but eats em pretty fast. When I say reasonably loud,
    it could easily fit in with boisterous acoustic instruments with
    enough gain to solo over them.  I use it with a couple of Boss
    stomp box effects (compressor and dynamic filter). I would like
    to add a Boss DD3 digital delay, and another Pignose. I could
    use the DD3 to produce a great stereo effects, and in the small
    settings battery rigs are designed for, a stereo effect could
    be appreciated (as compared to a club setting where any stereo
    effect is lost in the sauce. Pignoses can be picked up used for
    about $50, but of course, they are no good for Bass. Wait till
    SR&D comes out with a boom-box style bass rig like the one they
    have for guitar (expensive overkill, but great fun).
    
    Mark
    
                                        
    
1279.8more toysANT::JACQUESWed May 31 1989 12:4317
    I recently have updated my portable setup. First of all, I added
    a Boss DD3 delay. I then realized that I might as well get a PSM5
    power supply so I wouldn't eat batteries, so I got the PSM5. I
    bought a battery eliminator from McDuffs for my Pignose. It puts
    out 9v @300ma, and only cost $8.00.  I then went to radio shack
    and bought a converter that plugs into an auto cigarette lighter
    which produces 9v upto 900ma. That's enough current to drive 2
    Pignoses and a PSM5 (which requires a 200ma wall bug), with 100ma
    to spare. This adapter ran me about $13.00. Now I need to make up 
    a cable so I can connect this to the Pignose, and my PSM5. 
    
    The next thing on my shopping list is a Boss BCB6 carry box .
    
    Favorite past-time = spending $$ on musical equipment.
    
    Mark
    
1279.9street performance sound gearCOGITO::SULLIVANSinging for our livesMon Jun 03 1991 20:006
    
    So, Brian... did you end up going with Maxi-Mouse or the RS 20Watt
    PA amplifier for your street performing?  Were you satisfied with the
    sound?
    
    Justine -- looking into getting the maxi-mouse
1279.10Mighty MouseVOYAGR::JACQUESVintage taste, reissue budgetFri Jun 04 1993 14:0742
	I recently bought a "Lektrosonic Mouse" amp as part of a package
    deal. The amp is in perfect condition. I opened up the cab and inside 
    there are 2 sealed lead-acid batteries. The amp came with a wall bug. 
    I did not get a manual with it and was wondering if anyone can answer 
    a few questions.

	How long should it take to recharge the batteries fully?

	How can you tell when the batteries become fully charged ?

	There is a green light that stays on during the charging
	process. Does this light shut off when the batteries are
	fully charged ?
	
	How much are these amps worth. Keep in mind this is not
	a "Maxi-mouse".  Features include:
	
	    1/4" input jack
	    Volume
	    Tone
	    Input selector switch (0db or -10db)
	    1/4" Output jack. (for using external speaker).
	    Battery charger jack w/ wall bug.
	    8" speaker.
	    2 sealed lead-acid batteries mounted inside the cab.		

	This amp plays much louder than my Pignose, but it get's dirty
    when the volume is cranked above 4. The tone control provides a 
    pretty good range of tones from warm to icepick. The amp played much 
    better after charging the batteries over night. I think the wall-bug 
    is really only intended for charging the batteries, not as a battery 
    eliminator. 

	I may be interested in selling this amp. If anyone is interested,
    make me an offer. I bought the amp with a guitar, and mainly just 
    wanted the guitar. It seems like it would be perfect for playing the
    streets or jamming in the great outdoors. Definately loud enough to
    get you thrown out of most camping areas.

	Mark