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Conference napalm::guitar

Title:GUITARnotes - Where Every Note has Emotion
Notice:Discussion of the finer stringed instruments
Moderator:KDX200::COOPER
Created:Thu Aug 14 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:3280
Total number of notes:61432

1221.0. "Living in perfect Harmony !!" by ANT::JACQUES () Tue Mar 21 1989 18:27

	There has been much referance in this conference to "Harmonizers".
    It seems that everyone wants one, but noone can afford a "good" one.
    The harmonizers of choice are manufactured by Eventide. Their units
    range in price from ~$1500 to ~$3000.

	Ten years ago, a good digital delay would set you back $1000.
    Today they can be had starting around $100. Ten years ago, a good
    digital reverb would set you back $3000. Today they are can be had
    starting around $150. Clearly we can expect harmonizers comparable
    to Eventides to be available within the next 2 years at prices under
    $500.

	Digitech recently introduced their smart shifter, which is capable
    of producing 3 voices of harmony around a base note. This unit has
    ~100 preset programs, and allows the user to store custom programs.
    The programs cover all the modes, and prompt you for the key signiture.
    The smart shifters are selling around $600, not including an optional
    foot controller.

	Then there are the delay/shifters and octavers which are available
    from a multitude of manufacturers in stomp box as well as rack mount
    units. My understanding of Octavers is that they produce a note one
    octave above and below the original note. These may help to fill in 
    the sound, but does not really qualify them as a harmonizer. Also, most
    octavers are analog, and do not handle chords very well (pretty much
    limited to handling monophonic sources). Pitch shifters allow a little
    more flexibility in that they allow you to produce a major third/minor
    third, as well as most intervals within a 2 octave range. Digital pitch
    shifters can generally handle chords much better than analog units,
    with little or no distortion.

	Anyone ever play around with an Eventide ?? What makes these units
    so great ?? How about the other harmonizers on the market ?? Since this
    subject seemed to be of interest to many noters, I thought it deserved
    to have it's own note.

	Mark Jacques

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1221.1Who uses Eventide ?ANT::JACQUESWed Mar 22 1989 11:2310
    Last night I found a product listing in a magazine on the Eventide
    Harmonizers. They range in price from about $2000 to $4500. The
    latest Ultra Harmonizer Lists for $2100 and is the first to offer
    midi. Clearly these are out of reach for practically all of us.
    
    Does anyone know of any current artists using an Eventide. I'd like
    to here a sample of what they can do ??
    
    Mark
    
1221.2My Guess.ELESYS::JASNIEWSKIjust a revolutionary with a pseudonymWed Mar 22 1989 11:3136
    
    	Straight delay is one thing, harmonizing is quite another. It's
    like comparing an engine to the whole car, in terms of additional
    complexity...
    
    	I really dont have *any* experience with the Eventide stuff, I
    only know that their hallmark is that their's works well. I have
    played with a Yamaha SPX-90, which can do pitch shifts in real time.
    
    	One of the things I noticed about this device, it that the quality
    of the sounds coming out went down as one asked for greater "shift".
    Which was to be expected. A suprise came, however, in that you could
    also specify how long the processor could process before giving
    output. As expected, the longer it had to operate on the input signal, 
    the better the sound quality was that eventually emerged.
    
    	Of course, to do an octave below, you had to wait half a second
    to get the nice sounding output! Hardly acceptable for a performance
    situation!
    
    	My guess at this point, considering the operation of the SPX-90,
    is that the newer models are putting more compute horsepower into
    the signal processing, much in the same way that the latest "PC's"
    run umpteen times faster than an "AT". Thus, they can arrive at
    a quality product in terms of the signal *sooner* than the previous
    generation, perhaps for all intents and purposes, in "real time"
    - no matter what the "shift" asked for is.
    
    	I think it would be fun to have an all guitar band, with the
    "bass chores" being rotated via an analog MUX around the guitar
    players. Whoever "got to play bass" on a particular song would still
    be playing guitar, but it'd come out as "bass" by being shifted
    down one octave in real time, via one of these machines.
    
    	Joe Jas 
                                                     
1221.3IPS reviewDREGS::BLICKSTEINConliberativeWed Mar 22 1989 12:1093
    >  Digital pitch shifters can generally handle chords much better than 
    > analog units, with little or no distortion.
    
    I'm not sure this is true.
    
    I think all the pitch shifters that are out today aren't intended 
    to "handle chords".  I'm not sure there's much value to handling
    chords (if you can generate a chord you probably don't need a
    pitch shifter).
    
    I do know that if you give the Digitech IPS or the Eventide H-3000
    a chord, they give you back mush.
    
    I did finally get a chance to sit down and play with an IPS.  I was
    very pleasantly surprised.  It works well, and is very flexible with
    very little in the way of "glitches".
    
    The positives are:
    
    	o It tracks incredibly fast (much better than the pitch-to-MIDI
    	  guitar controllers)
    
    	o It sounds great.  In fact, there was one very unexpected plus.
    
    	  I had it plugged into the effects loop of a Mesa Boogie amp.  
    	  I expected it to sound mushy when harmonizing with a 3rd and
    	  a 5th (major triad).  Try playing a major triad into any amp
    	  with a distortion setting and you typically get a pretty
    	  mushy sound because of the third not being a natural harmonic
    	  of the root.  Generally the chord voicings that "work" in
    	  distortion settings are either wide intervals or harmonics.
    
    	  But when I played the triad with the harmonizer, it sounded
    	  like 3 guitars all playing lead!   Everyone in the store had
    	  thought Brian May had walked in because it really sounded like
    	  him.   I was very impressed, although I think it's more a
          function of how you incorporate the unit in your rig (the
    	  manual described how to use it with a distortion setting)
    	  than a "feature" particular to THIS harmonizer.
    
    	o It's fully featured.   It's got all the important scale types,
          and if that's not enough, you can define your own.  I defined
    	  the following scale:
    
    		Note		C    D   E   F   G
    		1st Harmony	E    F   G   A   C
    		2nd Harmony	G    A   C   C   E
    
    	  The interesting aspect of this "scale" is that you play any
    	  note in the C major chord and you get a C major chord or an
    	  inversion.  It also works for D minor (and I could extend it
    	  to work for certain passing tones as well).
    
    	  I had a blast playing fully harmonized C major and D minor
    	  arpeggios.  It really sounded cool
    
        o It has a bunch of detune settings which make it useful as a
    	  sound colorer, special effect and stereo effect.   In fact, detuning
          can be a VERY dramatic stereo effect and I can think of a few	 
          of places where you wouldn't use other stereo effects (delay efx,
          eq-stacking, panning, etc.) where detuning would work just fine.
    
    BAD POINTS:
    
    	o The instrument is very sensitive to tuning.  Not surprisingly,
    	  you have to tune TO the instrument (it has a "tuning mode").
    
    	  If your guitar is too far out of tune with the IPS, it glitches
    	  and you get all sorts of really undesireable things happening
    	  (wrong harmonization, flip-flopping between notes cause it can't
    	  figure out what note your playing, etc.)
    
    	  Oddly enough, it isn't "bothered" by MODERATE vibrato.  I guess
    	  as long as the vibrato is centered on the right pitch, it'll
    	  get it right.
    
    	o String bends USUALLY work (which is actually somewhat counter
    	  intuitive given the last bullet item).  When I say work, that
    	  means that the harmonized notes "bend" with the input signal.
    
    	  However, occasionally the unit cause the pitch to take an abrupt
    	  jump instead of a bend.
    
    None of the glitches seemed terribly bothersome for recording.  If
    you were playing live and wanted to use the harmonizer after some
    dive bombs or something like that you'd be taking a risk.  You
    basically just have to have a guitar that stays in tune very well
    (even without the dive bombs).
    
    It's on my shopping list, although I'd love to see some other companies
    come out with some smart shifters.
    
    	db	  
1221.4H&S recording product reviewANT::JACQUESThu Mar 23 1989 11:556
    There is a review of the Digitech IPS33 Smart Shifter in the latest
    addition of Home & Studio Recording magazine. They rate the unit very
    favorably. Pick up a copy if you haven't already seen it.
    
    Mark
    
1221.5Looking for a manual too.GIDDAY::KNIGHTPget me a gin and pentatonicWed Jul 07 1993 01:405
    
    Bought one....well swapped my Quadraverb Gt for one.  I will give it
    a run for a couple of weeks and do a write up.  Anyone else got one?
    
    P.K.
1221.6GOES11::G_HOUSESon of SpamWed Jul 07 1993 19:043
    One what?  An IPS-33?  A Vocalist?
    
    gh
1221.7GIDDAY::KNIGHTPget me a gin and pentatonicThu Jul 08 1993 01:035
    Sorry
    
    An IPS-33   .......... I dont have the bucks for a vocalist.
    
    P.K.