Conference napalm::guitar

    How long is the cord ?  Just curious.  I have a wireless, and I
    like to hang out by the mic...
    
    I can handle the $149, cuz I think the Roland is $400 !
    
    So, can you tell me what else it does ?  How does it work ?
    
    jc

    re -1
    
      i have a digitech midi foot pedal that i use to run my dsp128
    and it works excellant. i don't know the # off hand, could be a
    pds-3500 something like that. if you read the dsp manual it tells
    u what 2 use.
    
    
        dave
    
    

    >   I would think the longer the midi cable is, the more delay 
    >   or chance of introducing a glitch would be.
                     
    I don't know enough about MIDI to comment on the glitch part, but
    you sure don't have to worry about delay.  Electronic signals travel
    on cables at a velocity of around a couple of nanoseconds per foot.
    So a 100,000 foot cable would produce a millisecond of delay, at
    which point you might start to think about delay as a factor.  I'm
    certainly not saying there is no cable length limitation, only that
    whatever the limitation is, it isn't because of delay considerations.
    
    								Marc

    Hmmmm.... Does that mean that if someone comes up with a fiber optic
    midi cable it would be less ?
    
    ;^)
    
    Doesn anyone know of any alternatives to the PDS-3500 ?  Would a
    generic (?) midi contoller allow me more functionality ?  Are there
    any other pedals in the $100-200 range that do more than the 3500?

    jc

    
    
    	I have a Casio MG510 Strat copy with a built in midi controller.
    The body is by Fuji (who make the bodies for the Jap strats) and
    is equipped with Seymours and Wonderbar. Once you flip a switch
    on the beast, picking a note up to the 16th fret on any string will
    send a midi patch change command (up to 96)to any midi device on
    it's programmable transmit channel.
      This enables me, if i"m playing straight guitar, to control my
    MidiverbII(soon to be quadraverb), or play and control a midi
    synth.    
       Model MG510 was discontinued by Casio approx. 8 months ago. It
    looks exactly like a Strat and is not one of the toy plastic things.
    
    					Rich
    

    Roladn has  a new one that claims the conversion from pitch to midi
    takes only 8 msec (vs 24 on their older systems). If so this may
    be the first midi system for a guitar that comes close to tracking
    fast enough. It's  the GR-50 (I think) and supposidly you can change
    the guitar it mounts on in minuites, if I understood things correctly
    it uses the guitar's pickups rather than a special pickup.
    
    dbii

    
    
    	I'll have to check it out. Uses the guitar's pickups?. Pretty
    wild technology. I wonder if you can still transmit a different
    midi channel on each string with it (like I can).
    
    					Rich
    

    
    Re: new Roland
    
    I think the new unit uses a new pickup, the GK-2, which is similar
    to the old GK-1.  At least that's what I *thought* I saw at
    Wurlitzer's.  Go ask Mitch Norcross, he tried it out (saw him drooling
    all over it while I was talking to a salesman about mikes).  How
    else could you possibly get single string isolation?

    
    
    Yeah, it does use a special pickup.  The nice thing about the new
    unit is that the rackmount section is basically a D-110 synth with
    its own sounds!
    
    Ralph (who drooled over one the other night at Wurlys)
    
    

    
    
    	Yeah, but who wants to pay an additional $xxx for a built in
    D-110?. I personally don't think much of the Roland D series anyway.
    Maybe the new pickup has an internal midinterface and one can do
    without the D110?.
       I'd buy that ...........Rich
    

    I believe you but the ads I saw didn't mention the pickup and did
    mention the ease of changing guitars, ie: use the guitar you want
    when you want as a controller....probably typical Roland hype.
    
    dbii

    
    
    	A friend of mine HAD the old Roland setup and hated it. I believe
    the pickup has to be built on to get the correct string to pickup
    spacing. The Roland was stuck on with something like Velcro?. My
    midipickups individual string polepieces each had to be adjusted
    separately for me to get correct velocity sensing (picking lightly
    to get one sound and harder for another).There is a pole piece which
    can be adjusted 180 degrees with an allen from the back of the guitar.
    
    					Rich
    

    BTW ... just to follow up and to answer a question in note #1
    (Introduction)...
    
    I ended up buying a Peavy RMC 17something-or-other.
    It has 128 presets, and is programmable.  It has ports for "expression"
    type controllers, four midi-out jacks (four channels) etc...etc...
    
    It does the job for me and my SGE...
    
    Hope this helps you.
    jc

    
       What was the damage?.
    				(to yer wallet)
    
    					Rich
    

    Do any of the foot controllers also allow for ground/float type
    switching in addition to the midi out?
    
    dbii

    Ground/Float type switchings ?
    
    Yo Dave !   What are you talkin' about ?  If you mean can it support
    an ON/OFF switch, I don't think it can...
    
    I believe I paid $175 for the Peavy Controller.  I'm not sure though.
    I bought it from somebody in this file...but I have a bad memory.
    Perhaps he's still hangin' out and will slap me for forgetting him,
    and remind me how much I paid for it...
    
    ;^)

    jc

    Yeah I'd like to replace my Rivera footswitch with a midi system,
    Rivera's midi interface is a bit expensive ($400) and it's a
    lambrogini for what I need to do and doesn't even come with a
    footswitch, it does offer some unique features like 5 effects loops
    that are midi addressable for using different preamps, amps or effects
    as well as being able to take the plce of the footswtich on two TBR-1
    heads, but I need something that will allow me to control 3 "tool"
    outputs that are either at ground or floating as well as transimitting
    MIDI to my Quadraverb and midiverb. I guess I might have to design it
    myself...
    
    dbii

    re: 1.37
    
    I use an ADA MC-1 to send patch changes to my SGE.  It doesn't offer
    anything other then 1-128 patch change requests.  Has bank-up and 0-9
    seperate switches.  If you press bank-up and 0 at the same time you get
    bank-down.  Has an LED display (very readable from a long ways away)
    that indicates the last change it sent.  It doesn't let you send
    continuous midi for the programmable parameters in the SGE.
               
    A minor inconvenience is that the SGE has 200 memory locations and the
    MC-1 will only random address 128.  Not a big deal for me, since I use
    my MP-1 as the master unit and have the MIDI map in the SGE set up to
    remap the requests for the patch numbers that I like to work together. 
    I don't use the factory presets and haven't overwritten their locations
    so I haven't lost the capability of using the memory locations >100
    which have my presets in them too.
    
    When I perform live with my band (as opposed to with anyone else or at
    home), I'm sent sequenced program changes from synth gear.  (REALLY
    convenient!)
    
    One thing I've been considering is getting a thing called a Pocket
    Pedal (I think that's the right name...) which is a little box about
    the size of a pager that allows you to use a standard volume pedal to
    send Midi continuous signals.  It has switches which allow you to say
    whether it looks like a pitch bend wheel or what on a keyboard.  This
    could be used to control the Performance-Midi parameters in the SGE. 
    This little device costs under $100. 
    
    Greg

    
       The makers of the Pocket Pedal also make a small midi merge unit
    (2 in, one out) which is the cheapest on the market. $80. Mergers
    are not cheap.

      I picked up my Kitty Hawk foot controller for $250! It has bank
    up/down and program buttons 0 thru 9. It doesn't switch programs
    until a program button is pushed. ie: if you want to go from program
    21 to 37,  Hit bank up once then #7 and it doesn't switch until
    you hit the 7. The left digit (bank) flashes on and off once you 
    hit bank up/down and goes solid when the program number is hit.
    The program number is a nice bright LED in the middle of the pedal.
      The thing is built like a tank! On top of that it uses a standard
    XLR cable on the pedal end and a standard MIDI connector on the
    rack end. This allows you to add an extension to the twenty foot
    cable if you need more. Nice for big stages!
    
    
        and 
 

    Midi pedals that IU know of:
    
    ADA 
    Digitec
    ART
    Peavey
    Korg
    
    and now
    
    Rocktron.
    
    I looked over the rocktron stuff last night and it appears to be a
    very feature ridden set up. Three banks of 128 prgrams each! It accepts
    input from any volume pedal as an 'expression" pedal and can be used to
    control any continous feature on a remote midi device..
    
    My local and drummer is getting one in. I'll probably borrow it and
    test it to death.
    
    The only bummer is the price. Lists for nearly $500.
    
    dbii
    

    
    
      The Art pedal is going for $100 in the Music Emporium Catalog.
    It looks indestructable, yet it probably does only basic program
    changes. But for the money, you can get two!.  
    
      Surround yourself!. Impress your friends!
    
    I'll get more info on it....
    
    
    RichC.

    I found another one last night in an old guitar player
    
    The MIDI Mitigator by Lake Butler sound co.
    RFC-1
    
    Looks nice in the picture. I'm sending off for details.
    
    dbii
                                           

    
    
      I've been staring at a Midigator in the window of Sam Ash for
    at least four years. It's gotta be the *first* midi pedal that ever
    came out. What I like about it is you can *name* your patches.
    Look's awfully big in real time though....
    
    
    
    RichC
    

Well I borrowed the rocktron midi-mate over the weekend. I was semi-unimpressed

The documentation on this unit makes DEC docs look like the most user-friendly
docs you might ever read...even made Roland docs seem good...without 'hand-on'
you can't even figure out what the silly thing does, and  I knew that up front!

There is no generric up/down buttons, but a pair of buttons are assignable
via a 2nd button. Which also allows you to enter patch edit modes...ick!
I  was unable to get the expression pedal working (i used a hacked up crybaby) 
I never figured out if it was the rocktron or the quadraverb that was set up
improperly, I may never...

Yo all you midi-rack pukes: talk to me about how you  manage your patches

dbii

    I don't get it !?!?!?!
    
    How can it NOT have a bank select !?!?!?
    
    Dave, what I do is set up my favorite patchs on one bank (like 1-4)
    and copy them to 5-8...But I bump the volumes up for lead work.
    Get what I'm sayin' ?  Then when I'm jammin' on patch 3, and lead time
    comes up, I just bank up and instant (programmable) VOLUME boost.
    
    See, my controller has 4 buttons, like 1-4 and then you bank up to 5-8.
    Does this mak nay sense ??  
    
    jc (Who'd like to have an expression pedal - whoa is me)
    
    Confused in Colorad)

I guess I misspoke myself, pseudo review follows:

It has three "access" modes...

instant: press any tweo buttons and access patch 1-99 instantly
bank: select a bank (bank = first two digits of a patch number) now you
      can select any patch in the bank with one button
controller: lets you control on/off midi switches up to 10 at once

The device lets you send patch changes on three channels at once, continiuos 
controller (express pedal) on yet another channel and controller/on/off on 
yet another channel

The way it lays out the buttons you have to go into "second" mode to get  
patch increment/decrement buttons, second also selects edit mode (for
setting channels patch names etc) and bank select. The bank select isn't
deselectable, ie: if you hit the wrong button you're stuck with this 
"pending" action ie: select a new bank. The bank select up/down are 
right next to the patch up/down

it lays out like this:



	[patch #] [patch name]  5   6   7    8   9

	mode  2nd	        0   1   2    3   4




in second mode:

button  0 is bank down
	1 is bank up
	2 is patch down
	3 is patch up
	5 & 6 are select edits

once you select an edit parameter buttons 1 & 0 inc/dec the value

what i've been doing is this:

I built a patch for each of two preamps, using the 4 different modes (cln, 
crunch, distort and insane gain) using both QV programs I currently use.

Now I needed to be able to go from cln to insane..cln to dist, clean to 
crunch etc.. and wanted to increment/decrement for leads ryhthm etc...

Already I used up 40 patches and havn't begun to do any of the fancier
stuff like clean/reverb to dirty with echo etc...or any specialized patches
for particular songs...patch managment is gonna be a problem I already have 
too many to keep track of...at least they can be named. Over time I'm sure
that certain patches will show no use and I'll probably get rid of them.


Nits: no "instant access" of patches 100-128, you must select the banks 
instead, as any two buttons in instant mode give you that patch.

no 0 patch, makes bank 0 short a patch compared to most of the other 
banks except bank 12

once you start a bank change you're stuck with it, you can change to the same 
bank

things I like: one button access in bank mode. ie: if I'm on patch 10
and want 13 I press 3

pending actions: you can select a new bank and go to it fast

ex: I'm using patch 18 I want 34 next

I press 2nd, and select bank 3, deselect 2nd
when I'm ready I press 4 and it switches to 34

Midi-wise this is a pretty powerful pedal, able to transmit on 5 channels
at once. Ergonomically it's not great, but useable.

I fear getting all bolluxed up on stage selecting a new bank instead of an
up or down....

I still haven't bought it yet either...I'll probably decide after Friday's
rehersal

dbii

      Now I gotta confuse everyone, right?
    
      Previously I was using the Kitty Hawk MIDI Foot Controller, and
    it was very straightforward (and rugged). One bank up, one bank
    down, and 0 thru 9 for patches within the banks. Not confusing at
    all. The only drawbacks to the KH controller was that it was big
    (you definitely don't have to worry about hitting two buttons at
    once though!) and it requires its own AC power.
    
      But when GTS struck for the 23rd time in 1990 I bought the Digitech
    GSP-21 with it's own integral foot controller. Smaller, lighter,
    less rugged, and powered through the control cable from the rack
    unit. Oh yeah, the patch number AND name show up on the pedal.
      Figuring this sucker out took a little while, but that's OK because
    it is very flexible. It can be set up for either ten patches per
    "set" or five per. The advantage of using the "five per" is that
    the 6 thru 0 switches control the individual effects within the
    patch you're set to. Sort of like a "real time" temporary patch
    change. So, in effect (no pun intended), you can have a "scorch
    lead" patch and kick in the delay, reverb, modulation, EQ, distortion,
    or compression without changing the patch. When you establish a
    base patch using the foot controller to kick effects in or out
    you can then save it the way you want it set when first activated,
    and have the parameters set the way you want for any add-on effects.
    The patch select pedal works two ways. If you hit it once it will
    go to the patch you select by the numeric pedals, but revert to
    the previous "set" when the next pedal is pressed. If you hit the
    patch select twice it will allow you to select the "set" number.
    Set 0 : 0 thru 5/ Set 1 : 6 thru 10/ Set 2 : 11 thru 15 ....
    It takes a while to get it right but it is really powerful compared
    to bank up/down/number.
    
    							-B()()M-

    This looks like where all the manufacturers are heading.  The efx
    processor comparison on pg. 41 of the Musician's Friend catalog proves
    this.  Very few come with footswitches now, but all pretty much handle
    MIDI.
    
    And to help matters Digitech comes out with 2 MIDI footcontrollers:
    the MC7 and PMC10.  ART comes out with a new X15 footcontroller that has 
    2 pedals on it. You not only can select presets from it, but can use 
    the pedals to change params (i.e., reverb depth, chorus speed) in 
    REAL TIME.
    
    Mike

	I'm sliding inexorably into MRP territory. Now that I'm
	in rack effect land I'd like to control the effects with
	my feet. I took an X-11 for a spin last night and that's
	not it. I want continuous controllers for the sick stuff
	like changing normalized room volume on the fly.

	Has anybody even seen an X-15? Any comments of the Boss
	MIDI pedal? Have you bought anything yet, Dave?

	ccb

    I recently (a second ago) had a brain storm...  This doesn't happen
    often, so I liketo put it in writing.  :)
    
    How about buying something like the X-11 AND buying a little
    DIGItech MIDI controller (which has CC's) and MIDI-ing them
    together ??  The floor controllers which have the CC's built in
    are beau-coop(tm) bucks.
    
    jc

	I've never seen a Digitech MIDI controller. I think the price
	there would be over the top. I considered X-11 + Anatek Pocket
	Pedal + generic volume pedal.That adds up to at least the
	cost of the X-15 which I believe has 2 CC pedals, a dozen
	buttons and on-board NVRAM for storing 200 "patches". Oh, AMS
	is quoting 189 for the X-15.

      
    
      That's not a bad price for the functionality the X-15 gives you. No
    doubt it's the price/performance leader in its category! My big gripe
    about the ART MIDI foot controllers is they should've put the patch
    activation LED's above the switch that controls them instead of the
    funky "line going to this LED" job. It be looking cheesy! Not to
    mention the too fugly graphics carried over from the SGE and Power
    Plant.
    
    							-B()()M-

    I agree, those ART graphics are the WORST!
    
    X-15 has a good price/performance ratio, but it looks like the switches
    were that same wierd rubber gunk as on the X-11.  I tried an X-11 and
    didn't like it.  I couldn't feel when the switch engaged.  I like to
    be able to tell with my foot when it's done what I wanted.  It also
    looked like the rubber switch cover things would wear out quickly, but
    I could be wrong.
    
    Greg

    So what are people using for the 'expression pedal'? I have decided to
    get one and start trying things with it and don't have a clue as to
    what to use. The manual says any passive volume pedal will work. So
    what's cheap and relieable?
    
    dbii

    
    
      I recommend a Morley "compact" volume pedal. Photo-electric..no
    noisy pots. Built like Roseanne. About $45 through AMS.                
    
    
    RichC

    Anyone read the X-15 review in the new Musician's Friend catalog?  That
    thing will even do channel switching on your amp for you!  There's more
    info on it in the MIDI guitar article too.
    
    Mike

I read it.  I want it.  I'll have it.

jc (Who loves ALL the latest MIDI gadgets)

I've looked at the thing in person. It's pretty basic...I'll stay with my 
current setup...

dbii

    so the Ultrafoot isn't vaporware like the SGX-2000?

I've looked at it too. Not enough motion on the pedals. I'm saving my pennies
for the Boss FC-50 and a couple of EV50s. Only thing that I'll be short on
is the amp control.

ccb

Nope not vaporware, it's been in the local shop for months now (probably 2+ 
mos.) It's very large and heavy, the led readout is 3 character (numbers) the 
pedals don't move too much, IMHO they're on the wrong side of the thing. Setup 
~seems~ cumbersome to me. I like my rocktron with the korg volume pedal.

Generic midi controller flame:

The way this gets implemented is poor at the device end. I can set a range
for volume of say max=100% min=40% and that translates to less than 30% of
the pedal movement instead of either the controller or the controllee spreading
that 60% swing over the entire range of the pedal (The pedal uses a 0-5v control
voltage scheme) Also most midi devices only impliment 7-8bit controls instead 
of the 16 that midi supports which means that things like pitch shift change 
in detectable increments as you move the pedal kid of like "chug chug chug 
chug chug". Sounds pretty jerky. The latest EM or HS&R has a backpage calling 
for manufacturers to fix that problem and for consumers to help drive them 
there (through the use of constant complaining to both dealers and 
manufacturers).

FWIW

dbii

    Are there any MIDI pedals that will perform direct preset access rather
    than sequential access?
    
    Something like pressing 8 and 9 for preset 89.
    
    Mike

    I seriously doubt it, it's just not very practical for live use.  All
    the ones I've seen allow you to change patchs by touching only one
    button, usually by arranging them in banks of 10, so that you select
    the bank ahead of time and then use the 0-9 switches to directly access
    patches within the selected bank.  
    
    Having to press at least two, possibly three little footswithes to
    change patches would be plenty to keep me from buying a midi foot
    controller.  I mean the whole idea of using midi controllable
    multieffects units for most people is to simplify their live setup so
    they don't have to dance on a bunch of stomp boxes to change sounds.  
    
    If you're not going to use it live (and live could just as easily mean
    playing a track by yourself in a studio), then why have the foot
    controller?
    
    Greg

>    button, usually by arranging them in banks of 10, so that you select
>    the bank ahead of time and then use the 0-9 switches to directly access
>    patches within the selected bank.  
    
    That's even better!  I didn't know you could assign a preset to one
    switch.  Which models do that?
    
    Mike

    Most of them.  I think immediately of the ADA, ART, SR&D, Rolls models.
    The only ones I think of that doesn't work that way are the
    Digitech/DOD stomp box version (only two buttons), and the Peavey
    programmable ones.
    
    Greg

Dood, my Peavey pedal allows the bank routine.
It's the only way to go !!

For what it's worth Mike, with the PV pedal I have I can line up my stuff 
too.  For example, I can program my buttons on bank one to call 1, 16, 39,
or 127 (or whatever memory location has the preset you want.  I find it 
easier to copy all my favorite patches to 1-10 or something like that.

jc (Who really only uses about 4 patches)

    Yeah, but it's concept of a "bank" is different then the simpler
    (non-programmable) midi controllers.  On them a "bank" is just a set of
    10 patches in consecutive number sequence starting on an even multiple
    of 10...

    Greg

    My rocktron allows me to build banks as previously described. It also
    has "direct" mode where pushing 8 & 9 gives you 89 (for example). 
    
    dbii

    The Roland FC-100  models also use the "bank" method.  But the FC,
    unfortunately, probably only works with Roland equipment (GP-8 and
    GP-16, probably others as well) - it has no MIDI ports, it uses
    something Roland calls RPC.
    
    To get patch 89 you press "Bank" then "8" then "9".  The number
    also shows up on an LED on the foot pedal.
    
    Not using MIDI has at least two advantages:
    
    1) Control outlet
    
    There's a "Control" pedal and a "control" output on the pedal board
    itself.  You press control, and the sound going out of the GP is
    cut off and the "Control" output gets the direct signal.
    
    I hook up my tuner to the control outlet - which allows me to tune
    my guitar quietly (in between songs or parts, etc.).
    
    2) Phantom power
    
    You do not need batteries or power for the FC - it gets it's power
    thru the RPC.
    
    
    Thus because it's not MIDI, the unit can send both signal and power
    over one wire.
    
    That makes setup/breakdown a bit less involved and complex.  You just
    rap the pedal board up and stick it in the back of the rack or
    whatever.
    
    	db

    sounds like it would be a good controller for the SE-50.

    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Do you want to dance (on the pedalboard) or just hit one button and go?
    
    
    
    
    
    

    re: Roland FC100

    They used to make an adapter that would generate a MIDI signal from
    whatever Roland proprietary protocol they used in the FC100, but it was
    kind of expensive.  I think it cost around $100.  Didn't seem worth it
    when the FC100 was already overpriced compared to other units in the
    same market.  I would have considered the FC100 back when I was doing
    Midi, even at it's higher price, if it did MIDI, because it's a much
    more solid controller then any of the others I've seen, but to have to
    buy ANOTHER $100 adapter to make it work just didn't seem reasonable
    (plus it kind of made me mad that Roland had to go off and do their own
    thing making their equipment incompatible with the industry
    standard...)

    Greg

    Also...
    
    The ADA midi foot controller can also receive phantom power from an
    MP-1 by using a 7 pin midi cable (standard Midi cable is 5 pins in case
    anyone didn't know).  I used mine that way and it was very nice not
    having a seperate power wire for it.
    
    re: Mike
    
    I'm pretty sure that the SE50 doesn't have that GP8/16 interface that
    would let you use the FC100 with it.  I think it only does midi.
    
    Greg 

    Greg,
    
    Is this to say that a a 5 pin MIDI cable will "fit" any plug designed
    for a 7 pin MIDI cable?
    
    And that the Ada FC can get power from EITHER the MIDI port OR a
    dedicated power port?
    
    I.E. you literally only have one wire coming out of the FC (counting
    ALL kinds of wire: power, MIDI, line, etc.).
    
    Then the only other advantage of the Roland FC is that it can also
    supply signal to stuff like tuners.  I've also used the tuner out
    to switch between amps.
    
    I.E. have the output of the GP go to my Boogie, have the output of
    the tuner out go to my JC-120.  Given that, stepping on the "CONTROL"
    pedal means I get a direct signal into my JC-120 (which I use as the
    "clean amp").
    
    	db

>    Is this to say that a a 5 pin MIDI cable will "fit" any plug designed
>    for a 7 pin MIDI cable?
 
    Yes, they use a 7 pin DIN connector and use the two pins on the outside
    of the semicircle of 5 pins used for Midi to carry the phantom power.
       
>    And that the Ada FC can get power from EITHER the MIDI port OR a
>    dedicated power port?
 
    Yes, that's right.  It has a power jack on it that you can plug the
    wall bug into, or you can run the 7 pin din cable from the Mp-1.  The
    interesting part of the design is the simplicity of how they set the
    Mp-1 up to do it.  They didn't put an integral power supply for the
    MC-1 (foot controller) in the Mp-1, they just put a power jack like the
    one on the foot controller on the back of the thing and you plug the
    wall bug into it.  The two wires from it are connected to the two extra
    holes in the 7pin connector they use for the MIDI IN port.  Seems like
    it would be pretty easy to retrofit some other devices midi port to
    supply phantom power to the MC-1 if you wanted to.
    
>    I.E. you literally only have one wire coming out of the FC (counting
>    ALL kinds of wire: power, MIDI, line, etc.).
 
    Yep!  One 7 pin din connector that supplies the MC-1 with power and
    returns midi program changes.  
    
    It doesn't return your guitar signal though, if that's what you ment by
    "line".  That might be a nice feature though.  Plug your guitar cord
    into the foot controller, plug the foot controller into the preamp and
    rock.
       
>    Then the only other advantage of the Roland FC is that it can also
>    supply signal to stuff like tuners.  I've also used the tuner out
>    to switch between amps.
  
    The ADA controller doesn't do that.  Another nice addition that
    probably wouldn't be that difficult for them (or you) to add.
      
    Greg

    re: .36 
    
    the Rocktron Intellifex/midi-mate work the same way: hook your
    footpedal wall bug to the intellefex and use a 7 pin midi cable to
    "phantom power" the footpedal. works pretty good.
    
    anybody have a source for llloooonnnggg 7 pin mid cables? Rocktron only
    makes a 20 ft. cable, I'd be real interested in a 30-50 foot cable.
    
    dbii

    I got a new catalog from some music place recently and noticed a new
    Boss/Roland (don't remember what name was actually on it) midi foot
    controller that looked real nice.  It had the same kind of switches on
    it as the single button footswitches they make and looked to be a nice
    size and packaging.  I believe the price was around $170.  This might
    be worth looking into if someone's looking for a nice midi controller.
    
    Greg

     I think what you saw was the Boss FC-50, sort of a lower price version
    of the FC-100 pedal. Looks nice and durable, compact too. I'm not sure
    how it is powered, probably a wall bug. I, for one, like the
    Boss/Roland stomp switches. I HATE the Digitech type. I have to keep
    adjusting those every so often. Pain in the butt!
    
    							-B()()M- 

    re: .39
    
    Yeah, that model number sounds right.  Looked like a quality unit!
    
    Greg

Boyoboyoboy !

I got one of those nifty ART X15 UltraFoot MIDI controllers for Xmas.
It does way-more than I thought.

First, it transmits regular everyday MIDI patch change data.

Then, it's got two "Expression pedals" built into it, that I can assign
to any of the MIDI parameters on my rack stuff.

Then it's got a bypass button that I can send bypass info out a regular
1/4" jack AND via MIDI (to bypass the Mp1, or DSP128, or Quadraverb), PLUS 
it'll do regular momentary/on-off switch stuff.  Ergo, I can bypass all
my MIDI stuff, AND switch channels on my Marshall at the same time.  This 
button is programable (per patch) to do one or both operations simultaneously.

The real big news (to me) is that it can control any of my Mp1 parameters
(including MASTER VOLUME!, Chorus depth, rate etc) in REAL TIME.  Ergo, I can 
have a way-cool volume pedal that will control the loudness of my rig, not the 
input to it (like a regular volume pedal that kinda changes your tone).  The 
other neet thing is I can BYPASS the Mp1's circuits (cept for output volume)
and go direct to my power amp...  Hmmm...  The Bypass thing is only acessable
via MIDI, so this is new to me also.  Seems like the Pedal will make the Mp1
even more versatile than before.

What I'm really looking forward to doing is setting up the controllers to
do the volume pedal stuff, AND Delay-feedback time changes in real time.

Has anyone done any of this stuff before ??  I'd like to hear some
other ideas on what I can control with those gas pedals...  Boyoboy, 
wouldn't a IPS33B be cool now ??

jc (lets here some ideas !!)

Yeah I've been doing some real-time via an expression pedal for a few months now.
I even entered a generic gripe about expression pedals somewhere (might have
been Commusic so I'll repeat it). With my setup at the controlled (Intellifex
or QVerb) I can set a min/max value for the pedal to control. Instead of 
spreading that range say 5-10 (out of 0-20) over the full range of the pedal 
they just are active for that portion of the pedal's movement, and some of the
movement is wasted motion. I'd rather they said ok I'm gonna spread this over
the full range of the pedal (in my case the pedal is driven by a 5v source in
the  midi-mate and returns a range from 0-5v) such that the pedal is always 
active for the full voltage swing within the min/max settings I programmed. 
If they did this you should get better control of your active parameters.

I've been using it primarily to control the effects master on a patch I use
for the song "On the Mountain" which is on the next GITNOTES tape wherein
I do voume swells with tons of reverb for a real celestial effect.

I could  see setting up a wah and volume pedal patch and that'd be about  my
major uses  for the pedal. Since I can't do a what on the intellifex and I have
yet to put my quad back in the guitar rack that may never happen.

dbii

Article 32076 of rec.music.makers:
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Path: nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!news.crl.dec.com!deccrl!caen!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!sgiblab!wyse!jvb
From: jvb@wyse.wyse.com (Jack Van Breen x2666 dept220)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers,alt.guitar,ba.music
Subject: Way Cool rack effects mod:)
Date: 9 Feb 93 00:35:26 GMT
Organization: Wyse Technology, San Jose

Just had a Way Cool Mod done for me! I am now 'phamtom-powering' my Art
X-15 Midi foot controller from my QuadGT.  And I'd like to take this moment
to publicly thank Mr. Brett Carver for pointing me in the right direction.

Basically, I had them tap off the Quad 9 volt supply and send the power
down the 2 unused lines of my midi cable.  No more Wall-Wart!!! (the one
with Art X-15 is Way Cheese;-9)

I had it performed by the kind folks at Zone Music in Cotati (707-577-4344.

This is a way cool store.  From the front it looks like a hole in the wall,
but it just keeps going and going.  The folks were all reall freindly and
helpful. And the prices seemed to be right in line.  I didn't ask if they
did mail order but they might (for those of you out of the area:)  For
anybody in the SF Bay area who's considering buying any new gear, these
guys are definately worth checking out. (I drove from San Jose to get the
mod done, and the next time i need something major, I'll drive it againg:)
They have just about anything anyone would need from true beginners stuff
to true pro audio. (they even have the mythical Rivera amps (which I made
the mistake of test driving, now I need to start saving pennnies again:)

I've been in and around the Retail Music biz for almost 20 years, and I was
impressed with these guys. (enough ranting:)


-- 
Jack Van Breen (standard disclaimer, these are my own ...)
Product Support, Wyse Technology, San Jose, CA
...!uunet!wyse!jvb
jvb@wyse.com

    I saw that....  I wonder how hard it'd be for a idiot like me
    to perform this mod??
    
    jc

Personally I wonder if this will degrade the life of the QV's wall wart?

It's just as easy to build an adaptor that allows you to hook the wall wart to a 
7 pin midi cable and phantom power the footswitch without risking your effects
processor..

dbii

    
      I think dbii has a good point. Many of these effects units, and 
    stomp boxes for that matter, require a specific milliamp rating
    that could easily be exceeded with a MIDI controller. Why risk 
    losing power to BOTH units! 
    
      I know the Rocktron approach is a seperate "power in" jack from a
    seperate wall wart when phantom powering a foot controller. Isn't
    that what you are doing dbii?
    
    							-B{}{}M-
    

    
    If you really want to do this neatly, without risking the power supply
    of your effects unit, just mount a jack that's compatible with the
    original wall-wart on the fx unit's back panel.  While you're in there,
    make sure that the fx unit doesn't connect to those 2 "unused"
    terminals.
    
    This should be a real simple mod that anyone with an understanding of
    DC electronics (or even DC comics) could do.
    
    I achieve similar results without gear modifications, though.  I have a
    nice piece of cole-flex tubing (nice, hi-tech looking stuff) that
    carries both the MIDI cable and the power lead for my X-11 (and
    associated volume-pedal-converted-to-MIDI-continuous-controller).  It's
    almost as neat as a single MIDI cable to the foot board, and gives you
    plenty of warning when you step on it (feels awful long before you're
    close to pinching the wire).
    

>      I know the Rocktron approach is a seperate "power in" jack from a
>    seperate wall wart when phantom powering a foot controller. Isn't
>    that what you are doing dbii?
    
    This is also the ADA approach.  They have a seperate power-in plug on
    the back of the Mp-1 to provide phantom power to the Mc-1 foot
    controller via the extra two pins in a 7-pin Midi cable.
    
    One advantage of doing it that way is that if you change foot
    controllers to one that uses a different power supply voltage, you
    don't have to make any changes at your rack unit.
    
    Greg

yeah I use the rocktron approach, wall bug into intellifex, pahntom powered out
the 7 pin midi cable.

Rocktron sells an adaptor that hooks 5 pin midi into an effects unit, takes a
wall bug input and sends the whole thing out to the footpedal with a 7 pin midi
cable. I have no idea how much they get but you could no doubt build something 
like that for less than $5 with parts from Rat Shack

After my fuse blown experience with the intellifex I'm very wary of mucking
with something that could take out my effects unit.

dbii

    
    
            I have a question about MIDI for some of you pros. I just
    bought a Yamaha GW50 processor for my setup. It is a floor model like
    the RP-1. Can I plug Midi-out from my GW50 into Midi-in on my DSP-128
    and change the patches on the DSP? I also have a wha-expression pedal
    that comes with the GW-50. I have never used Midi like this but think
    it is possible. Am I a midi-rack-puke yet?
    
                      Jeff

    
    
    You're working on "rack burp" status...keep it up until you can taste
    breakfast...
    
    As far as the configuration you suggested, try it!  Sounds like it
    could work.
    

    If you GW50 has the ability to send MIDI patch change numbers out,
    then the answer is yes.
    
    I suspect the answer IS "yes".

    Agreed.
    
    Jeff - If you get stuck, bring the thing over...  I've banged around
    with MIDI quite a bit, so we can diddle it...
    
    jc

    
    I'm looking for some direction regarding MIDI controllers.  Seeing
    how the majority of notes here are older ones, I was wondering what
    some of the hot items are now.
    
    After a fairly lengthy wait on a 4x12 from Boogie, and a slight
    delay in acquiring a Lexicon effects unit,  I'm FINALLY just about
    ready to dig in to all this MIDI-related talk.  Now with my TriAxis
    comes the new software enabling continuous control, so I certainly
    want to take advantage of that via expression pedal(s).  And, I
    am planning on utilizing many a programmable preset on this thing
    as well - in conjunction with different programs/presets on the
    Lexicon unit.  I'm a little confused about just how to go about
    all this *effectively* (mind my technical ignorance when it comes
    to this stuff as I've always been a combo-person up until now).
    
    SO, what's out there?  
    
    Thanks,
    Kev --
    

    Well, as we've discussed off-line, the ART X15 "Ultra Foot" suits
    my needs very well.  I've also had it for about 3 years, so it's
    tough...
    
    Looks like Rocktron has a nice set up too...  Stay AWAY from the ADA
    offerings - those buttons are hard to get a toe on.  :-)

    
    I'm definitely leaning towards that X-15.  I was wondering if
    any company has put out anything new, and/or better.  How's
    the buttons on that unit anyhow?  I like the idea of "feeling"
    the click, so to speak, when it comes to switching those things.
    
    BTW Coop, the t.c. literature is on the way!  Should make for
    some interesting and lustful reading.  
    
    Kev --
    
    
    

    No "click" to feel, and I know whatcha mean, but the buttons  are
    big and when you step on 'em, you know it.  :-)
    
    RE: TC
    
    Slobber...  There is a guy here in town with a 2290 in his rig (along
    with a TriAx, 2:90, and 14 spaces or other goodies)...  He sorta
    plays that U2 sounding stuff, so I can't comment much, but his rig
    RULES.
    
    :-)