Conference napalm::guitar

    The big white ones with gold trim are examples of Gretsch's top
    of the line "White Falcon". Real fine instruments, though a bit
    gaudy for my taste.  My first guitar, around 1964 I guess, was a
    little solid body Gretsch.  I'm not sure of the model, but it had
    four tuning machines on one side of the head, and two on the other.
    I've never seen another one since, but if I ever come across one
    I'll definitely try to snap it up.  I've also played on a few "country
    gentleman" models & they invariably struck me as nicely made.  I
    also tried an Anniversary model which was also nice, except for
    being finished mint green.  
    					jpb

    I played a Gretsch Bass guitar in the years 65. It had a semi-acoustic
    body, with no holes. The holes where painted. The two guitars
    in the band where also Gretsches, the orange ones with double-cutaway.
    
    The bass sounded quite nicely, but it was very sensitive to feedback
    from the amp. I should say however that we where quite a loud band
    for that time. The amp I was using was a had two 18"" speakers.
    I used the feedback to have sustain but it really had too much.
    I sold the bass after somewhat more than a year and I bought another
    semi-acoustic (Epihone) with more usable feedback.
    
    Looking back at it, I should have kept it as a collection instrument,
    I am sure that there not to many around.
    
    Regards

    
    The book "American Guitars" by Tom Wheeler has the entire Gretch
    story including pictures of most popular models. This book is the
    essential authority on all American made manufacturers including
    Gibson, Fender, Martin, Rickenbacher, Gretsch, Guild, Epiphone,
    National/Dobro, Mosrite, etc. and covers most models made this
    century. The book is available from Walden book stores for about $30.
    Check it out.
    
    Gretsch guitars were real popular in the 50's thanks to guys like
    Eddy Cochrane. They all but dissappeared during the 70's and early
    80's but made a comeback when Rock-a-billy became popular again
    ala Stray Cats. The orange Gretsch guitars with the G brand are
    probably the most popular models right now. 
    
    The one band that did the most to promote Gretsch guitars back in 
    the '60's was non other than the Beatles. George Harrison used a 
    Gretsch Duo Jet on the first Ed Sullivan show appearence. The same
    guitar was featured on the cover of his latest album "Cloud Nine". 
    In the November '87 issue of Guitar Player magazine, they featured 
    Harrison and included photo speads of many of his guitars including 
    the Gretsch Duo Jet, a red G-brand, and a 12 string White Falcon 
    (one of only 2 ever made).
    
    	The White Falcon was supposed to have been the guitar to own 
    when it first came out. Steven Stills used White Falcons exclusively.
    Gretsch also had a model called a White Penguin, which was suppossed
    to be a solid bodied White Falcon. These are especially rare. As
    was mentioned, the White Falcons were quite gaudy, and much of the
    gold hardware was actually clear plastic, with gold foil backing.
    At a time when a brand new Les Paul could be purchased for less
    than $500, White Falcons were selling for around $1500.
    
    I think the nicest thing about Gretsch guitars (besides the hip 
    styling) was their square-pole Alnico pickups. The floating sound
    was another Gretsch exclusive, but I wouldn't consider it to be
    a real great feature. 
    
    Mark Jacques
    

    
>    < Note 975.3 by ANT::JACQUES >
>                        -< Gretsch guitars are cool !! >-
>
>    
>    The book "American Guitars" by Tom Wheeler has the entire Gretch
 
     Have you got the ISBN number for the book? Such 'specialised' books
    are difficult to get here in Ireland & need to be ordered specially.
    
    Thanks in advance
    Maurice (who fell in love with a friends White Falcon :-( )
    

    The guitar with 4-2 tuning pegs mentioned in .1 could be an Astro-Jet;
    this model also had a pretty weird body shape, kind of like a Fender-
    Mosrite mutation.  Believe it or not, I saw one of these for sale
    in a local shop recently.
    
    I once owned a really cool '59 Jet-Firedird, basically the same
    guitar as a Duo-Jet but in red and black.  It featured "PAF"
    Filtertron humbuckers and really sounded great.  These guitars
    were modeled after Les Pauls, and although the were called
    solid-bodies they actually had hollow "sound chambers" in the
    bodies that made them feel and sound more like a semi-hollow.

    Gretsch guitars are well made and every one I've ever tried
    played great.  Last heard, prices for old Gretch's were on the rise.
    
    /rick

    
    Re: Gretsch/Kustom
    
    Just before totally going under, the Kustom amp people and Gretsch
    merged.  This company still exists, though what they do I don't
    know as neither the guitar or amp line are in manufacture!!!
    
    I keep hearing rumors that Gretsch/Kustom will start building guitars
    again, but after five years of rumors I take it with a grain of
    salt.
    

    One of the very first  guitars I bought was a new Gretsch White
    Falcon in 1961. I had saved money from gigs to buy what I thought
    was going to be the best guitar in the world. The discounted selling
    price was $900, over twice what I paid for the ES355 that was my
    main guitar.
    
    What a disappointment! The guitar that was so pretty in the catalogs
    turned out to be disgustingly gaudy in real life. The paint job
    was just plain bad--lots of rough areas, runs, paint over the sparkle
    gold binding, and "orange peel" throughout.
    
    Worse, it was clunky. Clunky neck, clunky body, clunky hardware,
    clunky electronics. Weighed a ton. It needed a complete fret job
    the day I got it, and the geared truss rod never did work right.
    In two months I sold it, and used the money to buy a sunburst,
    florentine cutaway, Gibson L-5 CES, still one of my favorite guitars.
    
    Over the years I have owned a few other Gretsch guitars--a Country
    Club, a Country Gent, a Super Chet, and even another Falcon. None
    of them was particularly good, but they were relatively cheap when
    I bought them. The Country Club and Country Gent were reasonably
    playable, but the other two were just as clunky as the first one
    I owned. After the fifties, Gretsch tended to use inferior wood
    , which is why most of their guitars had painted finishes.
    
    The floating sound unit was a disaster; instant out-of-tune unless
    you didn't touch the strings. Almost as bad as Gibson's side-to-side
    vibrato tailpiece, and not as useful. Luckily, it was easily removed
    and the bridge could be relocated to almost cover the hole.
    
    The value of Gretsch guitars took a big jump during the rockabilly
    revival a few years ago, especially the model 6120 Chet Atkins,
    but has been pretty flat since then. George Gruhn has some Country
    Clubs priced at $2000, but I've seen them as low as $600 in the
    same condition and age from other dealers. 
    
    In 1984 Gretsch claimed it would start making guitars again, but
    there is still no sign of them. If you need that twangy sound, most
    vintage dealers have a selection, but the number of "good" ones
    is small.
    
    Danny W

    re [.5] - Would ya mind divulging where you saw that guitar for
    sale?  (If nothing else, I'd like to have a look).  It's been some
    years, but I recall that the solid gretsch I had looked more like
    a slightly asymetrical SG.  I recall that when I got it I was in
    the 8th grade, and was *VERY* dissappointed cause I wanted something
    with 4 pickups & that only had two.  Imagine how down I would have
    been if my parents had bought me a Les Paul Jr., with only ONE pick
    up!
    					joe

    Re. .4 I will try to remember to write down the ISBN numbers and
    enter them later on tonight.
    
    Mark
    

   Re .8

   Billy Lee's music in Worcester had two Gretsch solid bodies (one
   a Corvette, didn't recognize the other) a couple weeks ago.  Billy
   Lee's is in an old yellow house on West Boylston street, just
   around the corner from Kurlan's.

   Cambridge House of Music (on Mass Ave near Porter Square) had several
   of various flavors last spring.  In Boston, the Guitar Garage on
   Landsdowne St sometimes has a few, as does ??? (Vintage Frets?) on
   Huntington just around the corner from Mass Ave.

   I've had a puke-green '65 Anniversary for a about a year and love it.

   Enjoy,
   Dave

    Mcpeake's in TN has a mid-60's Astro-jet for $350
    
    George Gruhn has Anniversary's,late 60's to early '70's , from
    $550-$650.
    
    American Guitar Center has a '60 Country Gent for $3000.
    
    There's quite a range available
    
    Dean Turner runs a Gretsch Museum. I have the address somewhere--I'll
    be glad to find it if anyone is interested.
    
    Danny W

    I have a Gretsch (a Fred Gretsch) Country Gentleman and have always
    loved it. I think it's about 1961 or 62 vintage.  It's the first year
    they made it double cutaway.  I rember buying one of the first ones
    available from Jacks Drum shop in Boston (bet a lot of you guys are too
    young to even have heard of Jacks). They had gotton 3 in and were
    planning to take them to a show in Chicago.  Needless to say, they went
    with only 2. 
    
    I've always had a personal like for the distinct Gretsch
    sound which a lot of people hate so badly.  I've often wished
    the guitar had more natural sustain but I'm not willing to
    change my pickups.  
    
    I have 2 complaints with the guitar in general:
     (1) The body is a but too large making it a little uncomfortable
         sitting down.  Only after buying the Gentleman did I realize
         that the Tennessean was had a slightly smaller and more 
         comefortable body.  I skipped over the Tennessean at the time
         because of its orange color (it's grown on me since then).
     (2) The weight distribution is terrible.  If your standing and
         let it go of the guitar, the neck end pivots down badly. I
         wish it were balanced or weighted in the other (natural)
         direction.
    
    I have never had a guitar in my hands that had action and smooth
    feeling frets, the likes of this one.  You couldn't ask for a better
    feel.  I consider myself lucky with this guitar because I've tried
    other Country Gentleman guitars made at about the same time and and
    there's no comparison.  In fact I've always felt there was a surprising
    lack of consistancy between the Gretch products as far as
    playability/feel were concerned.  I think getting one of the
    introductory guitars may have been advantageous in this case, perhaps
    they put a little more care into them. I guess my guitar about 26
    years old now, never had an adjustment and has action as good as
    the day it was purchased.
    
    Although I've never seen anything that substantiates this claim, I've
    always belived that the quality of the Country Gentleman went
    consistantly down from the time George Harrison appeared with one. I
    think he caused a brief demand for that guitar which Gretsch responded
    to by pumping out more guitars with even less quality control. 
    
    A favorite feature is that master volume contol and it's location
    on the guitar.  I've always been amazed that other guitar players
    and manufactures didn't think this was a great innovation.  I 
    don't know how I could play a guitar without it.

    I also owned one of those Mint Green aniversary models (single
    pick up) which I liked very much.  I got rid of it because I felt
    the neck was to narrow.  1st & 6th strings were to close to the
    edge and used to like to slip off. 

    My only real disappointment was after spending $600 (big bucks
    back in those days) for the Country Gentleman, I still couldn't
    play like Chet Atkins!  Never have been able to figure that one out!
        
    Frank    

    re: .12
    
    I agree--Gretsch quality was extremely inconsistent, and steadily
    deteriorated from the time their sales jumped in '63. While the
    other major US mfgs had similar problems, Gretsch handled it worse
    than most. I also agree that 17" is really too wide for a semisolid.
    It is too bad they didn't have a 16" Country Gent. Gibson figured
    this out early, which is one reason their semisolid line was much
    more succesful than the Gretsch line.
    
    My record show that I last spoke to Dean Turner in March, 1987,
    at which time he told me that he had been to the factory to check
    the prototypes of the new Gretsch guitars, and that they'd bee on
    the market "real soon now". His address is:
    
    Dean Turner
    PO Box 18095
    Ft. Worth, TX 76180
    
    If anyone writes him, include return postage, as he runs the Gretsch
    Museum as a labor of love.
    
    Danny W.

    I know this note is about guitars, not drums, but....
    
    Gretsch still makes drums, even though they haven't had any guitars
    on the market for a while.  They never kept up to date with hardware
    improvements (IMO), but I used to love their old drums. I can't
    really comment on their newer drums, since I never see any music
    stores that carry them.  I always wanted to have a small Gretsch
    jazz kit, with blond maple shells, set up in the corner of my living
    room.  I think they're beautiful.
    
    BTW, about 12 years ago, a roommate of mine had a Gretsch Anniversary
    model that he picked up in Sam Ash for about $75.  At that time,
    no rocker in their right mind wanted to be seen with a Gretsch,
    so prices were low.  And his was not puke green, like the other
    Anniversarys described in this note.  It had a nice gold-brown sunbrust
    finish.  
    
    	Willy

    
    
    A long time ago I had a Gretsch Electromatic, which was a large f-hole
    electric.  The body looked more like an acoustic in that it was about
    as thick and didn't have a cutaway.  Major league feedback potential.
    There was one pickup, black with exposed poles as I remember it. 
    
    I was a young rocker at the time and the Electromatic was un-cool. It
    would be fun to have it now, though.
    
    Kevin
    

    
    	Re. 3
    
    	I beg to differ. Gretsch made THREE 12 string White Falcons.
    	Chet and George got the first 2, Mike Nesmith got the 3rd.
    
    	Guy
    

    Okay Gretsch lovers, here's your chance to own the ultimate Gretsch
    collectible, without which no Gretsch collection could be called
    complete.
    
    Picture this: next to your '56 White Falcon, with its humped markers,
    vertical headstock inlay and Melita bridge
    
    a matching WHITE PENGUIN! Pretty neat, huh? And it can be yours
    for *only* $25,000. Yes, that's no typo, TWENTY FIVE THOUSAND
    dollars. George Gruhn has it in stock now, waiting for your check.
    Don't forget to inlude $75 for overnite shipping.
    
    Sorry for the shouting, but it certainly seems a bargain. Makes
    the three grand you probably had to pay for the Falcon seem like
    petty cash. If anyone wants George's phone number, I'll be glad
    to post it.
    
    Danny W
    
    

    Re. .4   The ISBN number for the book American Guitars is
    0-06-014996-5. Sorry it took so long. I was out on vacation
    all last week.
    
    Mark Jacques
    

Well gang, you all missed your possibly only chance to own a White Penguin,
    since GG actually sold the one he had listed for $25,000.
    
    Don't despair, though. He still has a nice '57 Falcon for only $7,500
    
    Danny W.

    fess up Danny, we all know you bought it :-)

    I woulda, but the $1000 MasterCard fee George wanted to tack on
    made it too pricey. Not to mention the Fed Ex insurance charge.
    
    I wonder if anyone asked George "what color is it? :-)
    
    Danny W.

    A friend of mine is looking for a Gretsch, what I think would be
    the green Anniversary model, judging from the descriptions.  Has
    anyone seen one for sale recently?
    
    Tom

    Tom:
    
    Jay Scott 212-219-0760 has a couple of green Anniversary models
    for sale.
    
    He also has the beautiful Convertible that was the centerfold in
    the 12/88 Guitar World for *only* $3500. Have fun
    
    Danny W

    On the subject of horriffic amounts of FEEDBACK from them Gretches
    (is that haw you spell it) How many people like the Jesus & Mary
    chain, as this is haw they get  "That" sound!
    
    In the UK, many Indie or Underground type bands, such as House of
    Love use Gretch guitars to get that type of clean/distorted sound
    
    I know what Mean by that last para but It takesimagination.
    
    
    Finally, can anyone fill me in on production of Left handed Gretches
    and of prices I may have tp pay to aquire one in the UK ?
    They seem rarer than Rocking horse manure, but do exist apparently,
    although I have yet to see one.
    
    juju
    xxxx
    
    UK / Reading
    

    Here's an ad from the August 10 issue of Rolling Stone
    ( this issue has a picture of Axl Rose on the cover)
    
    BEUTIFUL 1967 GRETSCH - MONKEES
    guitar. Autographed by origonal Monkees. Privately
    stored since 1968. Offers $30K + 
    
    I'll leave the phone number out.   
    Mindblowing price! 

    I've seen this one before, and others like it.

    Gretsch was the official supplier of instruments for The Monkees
    (Vox was the official supplier of Amps).  There were literally
    dozens of 6-string Gretsch guitars at the groups disposal during
    the TV series run.  Most were treated/handled mearly as "props"
    for the TV series and publicity photos and were never tuned or
    played or stored properly for a musical instrument of its calliber
    and they suffered for it.  Wouldn't want to play one of these.
    Many were stollen from the set and storage rooms and circulate
    amongst collectors/fans to this day.  Most of the rest of the
    instruments were sold after the series was cancelled.  The good
    ones were bought/kept by Davy, Micky, Mike, Pete, musician friends,
    producers, and other people who worked on the show.

    Gretch also supplied drum sets, banjos, basses, tamborines,
    maracas....you name it.  They even made one special small-size
    bass guitar for Davy.  But the most famous of these instruments
    is definitely the Blond Gretsch White Falcon 12-string (one of only
    three ever made, the other two going to George Harrison and Chet Atkins)
    that was given to Mike Nesmith, which he still has today and has
    repeatedly vowed never to part with.  A few guitars/basses/drums
    had The Monkees emblem painted or stenciled on them and lots
    were autographed before being sold or given away in contests.

    I have never seen any of these "Monkees" guitars go for this kind
    of money, even at memorabilia auctions.  I don't think this guy
    stands a chance at collecting this kind of dough for it.

    Strong agreement with -.1.
    
    But, it never hurts to start high.
    
    Danny W.

       I was recently lucky enough to get a good deal on a Gretsch
       Tennesseean. Great guitar, to say the least!  But I need some
       information on it, so here goes: 

            1) The serial number is 70099.  Any idea as to what
               date of manufacture this corresponds to?

            2) Anyone know what the "official" functions of 
               the various knobs and switches are? Here's a 
               crude sketch of body of the guitar, showing the
               various knobs (K1-K3) and switches (S1-S3).
               FWIW, the guitar has two pickups and a Bigsby 
               Tremolo:

                     S1  /  o     \
                     S2 |  o    O  | K1
                         \        /
                         /        \
                        |        O | K2
                        \     o O  / K3
                             S3                            
               K1 seems to be a master volume control of some sort.
               K2 seems to be acting as a volume control. K3 seems
               to have no effect (might be broken).

               S3 is a three-position switch which disables the
               output in its middle position and enables the 
               output in either of its other two positions.
               S1 and S2 affect the two pickups, I think.  

            3) The pickguard is missing. Where might I be able
               to find another? Are there dealers in old Gretsch
               guitar parts?
               
      I'd appreciate any info.  This is really a beautiful instrument 
      and I'd like to restore it to its former glory. 

      Jason

    
    Maybe this will help with the controls.  I have a similar setup
    (with the exception of S3) on my country gentelman.
    
    On my guitar:
    
    K1 - is a master volume control
    
           S1 and S2 (may get these reversed, but)!
    S1 - a 3 position pickup selector (neck, both, bridge)
    S2 - a 3 position tone switch. In the up or down positions a different
         capacitor is added between the guitar output and ground to act
         as a tone switch (filter out highs).  In the center position,
         the output is unfiltered (right out of the pickups).
    
    K2 - is volume control for the neck pickup
    k3 - is a volume control for the bridge pickup
            Rather than giving you tone options they allow you to
            blend/mix pickup outputs.
    
    S3 - I don't have one but as you suggested It seems like an on/off
         switch which they implemented with a 3 position switch.
    
    
    FYI - The pickups are humbuckers and one of the things I did was
          add a toggle switch to phas reverse the coils in the bridge
          pickup.   Gives the guitar a whole new range of sound.
    
    Congratulations and good luck with the new toy.
    
    Frank
    

    Gretsch was another company that used inconsistent serial numbers. It
    would help if you could describe the guitar--inlays, labels, hardware,
    logo. The location of the serial number would be useful, too.
    
    Danny W.
    

    The inlays are the half-moon types rather than dots.  The serial number
    is stamped on the top of the head with no other printing. The bridge
    is a "floating" type (not glued down) with thumbwheels that adjust
    string height. Does this info. help?
    
    Jason
    

    The serial number stamped on the headstock pins it right down.
    
    Danny W.

    Almost everyone has a dirty little secret hiding in their closet. Mine
    is  Autumn Red and 17" wide...
    
    During December I get to do a bunch of Christmas music gigs. I've been
    using my Falcon, since it has a good sound for the kind of music we do
    and looks nice and Christmasy. I play it pretty intensively for a
    couple of months and get use to the Gretsch feel. Anyway, one night I
    wanted to do a little jazz playing and didn't want to undo my Gretsch
    calibration, so I took out my '72 Super Chet. It's hardly been played
    since the day I bought it almost 20 years ago.  I detested it then and
    have often thought of selling it, but until recently, it wasn't worth
    anything .
    
    Despite the fact that our last gig was in mid-December, I'm still
    playing the Chet. It has a nicely shaped neck, with a wide-radius
    fretboard that feels funny at first, but sort of grows on you. Its
    pseudo double-cut style provides good access to the upper frets without
    the first-fret reach required on a true double cut. The sound has less
    weight than a Gibson, but a little more fullness than most other
    Gretsch models. Although I rarely like the sound of thin hollow-body
    guitars, this one seems to be right, and it is free of the wolf notes
    that plague so many. The color is between wine and cherry red and is
    really rich-looking; the over-abundance of pearl and abalone seems less
    tacky to me than it used to. I've examined dozens of Super Chets and
    this seems to be one of the better examples I've played, in terms of
    feel and workmanship. 
    
    I can't picture using it for gigs, but it's fun to play around the
    house. I expect to grow tired of it and put it back in the closet for
    another 20 years, but right now I'm glad I have it.
    
    
    Danny W.

    
    You guys ever see the Stevie Ray Vaughn video where he's just laying
    around the house playing guitar and his SO gets PO'ed, yanks the guitar
    out of his hands and starts stomping on it, only to find Stevie's
    grabbed another one from behind the couch?  The video goes on like
    this, with Stevie pulling guitars out of every nook and cranny...
    
    This is what I imagine Danny Weber's house is like...guitars all over
    the place...{

    Weber doesn't have an "SO". He does, however, have a wife who has
    learned to tolerate his obsessions over the past 23+ years, and has
    decided that it a reasonable trade-off, since he doesn't smoke, drink,
    chase wimmin' or watch football and he gave up playing in strip joints
    years ago. Although her usual comment about a new
    acquisition is "It looks just like the last one", she in fact thinks
    the Super Chet is beautiful and wonders why he doesn't play it more
    often.
    
    Weber nevers keeps guitars behind the couch: that's where the GP
    magazines are stowed :-)
    
    Danny W.

I've got a bet with a friend over whether the sparkle colored tops on the
Gretsch Jet guitars are a plastic covering or paint.  Is there a Gretsch
expert in the house who can settle the issue for us?

/Steve

    Since no Gretsch experts have come forth, I'll tell you that the
    sparkle finishes were the same sparkle plastic used on Gretsch drums.
    
    Danny W.

    re: -1
    
    Thanks for the reply!    I lost the bet...  8^(
    
    /Steve

    Could anyone give me a rundown of the Tennessean model?  I'm interested
    in things like electronics, finishes, cosmetic appointments, etc., how
    these things changed over the years, and specifically things to look for
    and/or avoid in older models.  For instance, when did painted f-holes
    start and are these any good as players?  Any info appreciated
    
    /rick

    Rick:
    
    You don't want much, do you?
    
    '61-'70 for painted f-holes. Features, cosmetics and all that other
    stuff changed from guitar to guitar :-)
    
    In general, they got thinner during the '60's. 
    
    Things to watch for are neck set problems, inoperative truss 
    rods and wiring problems.
    
    Some of these are great guitars. Some bite. They're sure cheaper than
    6120's, though.
    
    Danny W.

    Thanks, yeah that's the kind of stuff.
    
    How about pickups?  I'm familiar with "Filter-trons", but what's
    a "HiLo'tron"?
    
    /rick

    Filter'Tron=humbucker
    
    Hi-Lo'Tron= single coil
    
    
    Danny W.

    What is involved in replacing a conventional tailpiece on a Gretsch 
    with a Bigsby?  Is is a simple matter of removing the old tailpiece
    and installing the Bigsby? Or are there other considerations, like
    bracing on the top to support a bigsby? Can I expect any carpentry
    work?  Will this mod become irreversible? Will it depend on the model?
    
    The reason that I ask is that I can't afford the 6120 of my dreams but
    am thinking of acquiring a 58-59 double aniversary (fiter-trons with
    same body used on the 6120 of that vintage, 2 3/4") and slapping the
    Bigsby on there with the expectation of a 6120-like result.
    
    Any suggestions or comments?
    
    thanks, 
    
    
    jim

Jim,

Adding the Bigsby will be trivial.  On my Country Gentleman it's fastened
only by 3 screws to the end of the instrument.  The strap hanger is part of
the bigsby.  There's certainly no additional support for this think in the
guitar.   The one caution is that the bigsby tailpieces used to come in
different sizes so you need one that's porportionally correct for your 
guitar body or:

 - it'll look like a hack job
 - the arm will be to short to use. 

IMO - don't be talked into a short one with just a long arm. Look for 
   the correct size.

Gretch also has/had a couple of varieties of bridges that work with these.
You may want to inquire.  My favorite is the one where the bridge is made
out of threaded material and the strings ride over some fancy nuts which.
roll very easy and also give you a way to adjust spacing between strings.

Frank 

    I've seen them pretty regularly in many Guitar stores in my travels.
    
    Here in Atlanta there is a Dealer that carries a large selection of 
    these. A recent addition to the product line is the "Black Falcon"
    (as opposed to the white Falcon).
    
    jim

    
    re .45
    
    I'd updated the acoustic bass note after seeing a new Gretsch
    acoustic model. This place had numerous Gretsch 6-strings in
    stock; they looked nice hanging on the wall but I can't drive
    one of them things with all them li'l strings so I don't
    bother to take 'em off the wall. For those here in Colorado,
    (or those from elsewhere that *really* want to see these
    guitars :-), Aurora Pawn and Music on East Colfax has many
    in stock.
    
    Finding myself in Denver again this past Saturday, I stopped
    there again to take another look at that bass. I had another
    bass player with me and was able to listen to it being played.
    Its' sound is way too thin unamplified, which would eliminate
    it from serious consideration as well as it being a bit gaudy
    for my taste. Workmanship is fairly nice on it, however. I'm
    told that all these new Gretsch guitars are built overseas, if
    that matters.
    
    DAP
    

    Chet Atkins is now a Gibson endorsee, and he owns the rights to the Country
    Gentleman mark.
    
    Danny W.

    I recently picked up one of the "new" Japanese made Gretsches. Its
    a 1960 reissue of a 6120 with filtertrons.
    
    The "new" filtertrons are made using ceramic magnets. The original
    filtertrons were made with Alnico magnets. I bought a pair of the
    original Alnico magnets from Duke Kramer from the old Gretsch parts
    stock. I was thinking about replacing the cermaics with the alnicos.
    (BTW the Brian Setzer model, uses the old alnicos as well).
    
    Does anyone have an opinion on how the sound of these pickups might
    be affected by this change??  As I understand it, the effort to make
    this change is not great, unsolder pickup cover, magnet sits between
    the two coils, slide old one out, slide new one in.
    
    jim

re: -1

Well, I finally got around to trying this magnet experiment with the 
new Gretsch Filtertrons. I tried it with the bridge pickup. First I removed
the ceramic. I found the ceramic magnet to be noticably stronger than the
alnico just by the amount of force required to remove a screw driver from
the magnet.

I mounted the alnico magnet and popped the pickup back in and took it for
a test drive. The alnico magnet resulted in significantly less output from
the pickup overall. As far as tone, it seemed to have more high frequency
response. A bit more of a twang, more harmonics.

All this made me wonder the following:

 1) Are the materials used for ceramic magnets capable of a stronger magnetic
    field?  I've noticed that Gibson offers a "ceramic" humbucker which is
    quite a bit hotter than the standard humbucker. Is this due to the use
    of ceramic magnets?

 2) As alnico magnets age, do they lose strength?  If so, would this be a
    factor in the tone found in older vintage guitars and the difficulty in
    duplicating it?


jim

    In answer to #2, yes the Alnico does lose magnetic strength over time
    and yes many people believe that it's part of the "vintage" tone.
    
    Btw, this was the idea behind Duncan's Alnico Pro pickups; the Alnico
    magnets were intentionally weakened to simulate the effects of aging.
    I tried a set of the Strats; personally, I still heard a big difference
    between these and the real thing.
    
    /rick

    Magnet strength definitely has a significant impact on tone.  Most of
    the "active" pickups out there (EMG, etc.) use very *weak* magnets so
    that there is very little signal generated and a preamp is needed.  Of
    course, the result is a very crisp hi-fi signal with little distortion
    or coloration due to magnetic pull.  
    
    Many older pickups are relatively weak; for example the difference in
    level of my Danelectro compared to my Schecter is such that on one old
    tube amp the Dano just barely makes the amp break up at 10 where the
    Schecter can push the thing into howls at about 5.  
    
    In the seventies, higher output pickups became all the rage because
    evryone was looking for more gain and distortion.  The tradeoff even
    then was that there is sort of an inverse relationship between gain and
    bandwidth.
    
    							Brian

    The Ads for Kendrick Black-frame speakers has an interesting discussion
    about magnets. According to the ad, Alnico 5 has a half-life of 80
    years, while ferrite magnets have a half-life of several hundred
    years. A 40 year old Alnico magnet will have lost about 1/4 of it's 
    original magnetic field. Vintage pickups and speakers that sound
    great now may sound like crap in another 20-30 years. They will
    definately show a noticeable change. 
    
    Magnetic field strength is one factor that effects pickup output. The
    other factors are the materials and size of the pole pieces and the
    number of windings used.
    
    So Jim, did you decide to use the Alnico magnets or stay with the
    originals ?
    
    Mark

    Pickup magnets could be remagnetized though, no?

    re: .55
    
    I've A/B'd the ceramic and the alnico several times now on the bridge
    pickup. It's not a hard decision to make. I'll keep the alnico. There
    is a distinct difference in the amount of treble. It has more
    rockabilly twang. I can live with the reduced signal.
    
    Last time I put the alnico in, I think I slipped in backwards cause
    now I've got a funky out-of-phase sound with both pickups selected.
    
    Next I'll try the alnico in the neck position for the full treatment.
    When I've got it all in place, I might head out to the local vintage
    guitar gallery. I think he's got a late 50's 6120 that I might be able
    to compare it with. I suspect they won't sound the same, but I think
    the latest mod will be an improvement.
    
    jim