Conference napalm::guitar

    A good simple way to boost the volume without effecting tone
    is with an MXR micro amp. I am not sure if they still make them,
    but I'm sure you could find one used. They used to sell for about
    $50 to $60 new. They have a volume pot on the top with a rubber
    cover so you can crank the volume up or down with you toe, and
    a stomp switch so you can kick the unit in or out. They are very
    quiet, no popping sounds can be heard when kicking in/out, and
    they don't color the sound at all. 
    
    A more modern version of this would be a DOD fet preamp, which
    would probably cost you a bit more. They are geared more towards
    boosting piezo-electric transducer pickups for acoustic guitar,
    wind instruments, etc. but I'm sure they could be used with
    an electric guitar.
              
    Another alternative would be to get a stomp box EQ. You could set
    it to boost the volume considerably when kicked in, and cut volume
    when kicked out.
        
    the possiblities are endless.
    
    Mark Jacques
    

    An even simpler solution would be a volume pedal. It sounds like you
    don't really want a boost in gain, just control over it. With a volume
    pedal you would have even more control over the levels than just an
    on/off switch would provide. I have a passive pedal myself (that I
    don't use, because my amp has channel switching, which is the real
    solution to your problem), which is nothing more than a pot attached to
    a foot pedal. I'm sure these things couldn't cost much.
    
    - Ram

    Even simpler-use your pinky.  The more you do it, the better you'll
    get.  If not, get a volumn pedal, but... if your going to get a
    box, make sure it does more things than just volume-have some fun
    with it.                                           

    
    A volume pedal will do it, but some (not all) change the pickup
    tone a little.
    
    I like using a Graphic eq to boost.  That way you can shape the
    tone the way you want it.  If you don't want a drastic tone change 
    the eq helps clear up any muddyness, etc assoc. with some volume/gain 
    changes.
    
    Buck

    
    Ta for the inputs chaps,
    
    	Re:.2 & .3
    
    	The problem with passive volume pedals is they do change the
    loading on the PU & thus can have some wierd effects on tonal
    qualities.  Also the Marshall likes to be driven quite hard to get
    the "CRUNCH" which I like so I feel I really do need a boost of
    some kind.
    
    	Re:.4
    
    	I just don't get these Strat types :-)  Do you know how LOOONNNNG
    your pinky has to be to get to the volume knob on a Les Paul, besides
    we dont have pinkies here in England, we have "little fingers" :-)
    but I'm assured our local music store will be getting some in, if
    they can find a few States side donors (don't rush guys).
    
    	Seriously though, I do like the sound of the graphix (thanks
    Buck) but I always thought those things were unity gain devices.  
    I take it that you do mean the Boss style stomp box with about 
    six-eight bands on it? or are you talking exotic rack mount?  Could you
    say a bit more about your set up?
    
    	I'll try the DOD Bifet job out as I know where I can get my
    mits on one, that sounds like it could be a solution too.
    
    Thanks again guys
    
    Pete. 

       Gosh... you have alot of ways to go. Personally, I use a Morley
    volume pedal with my Les Paul and it doesn't seem to change the
    tone very much. With a "pot" type pedal, it tends to muddy the tone
    up "slightly". You can use a compressor or a limiter to keep a lid
    on your volume and then switch it off during your solo breaks. That
    works well too! EQ? Same basic idea, but a volume pedal might
    give you more flexibility and make your passages more dynamic because
    it isn't just "on", or "off".
    
    Which is the "right" way to go for you?
    Try everything and go from there!     
    
    Have fun!
    Fred
                                 

    My rig has two solutions to this problem (which is especially critical
    with Mesa Boogie amps).
    
    First, I have a volume pedal.  The volume pedal doesn't seem to affect
    the overall tone nearly as much as the volume controls on the guitar.
    
    Second, I use two amps and have a pan pedal to switch between them.
    I can also use the pan pedal as a second volume pedal.  There's also
    a ton of other fun things I do with the pan pedal (mainly using it
    to dynamically "bring in" effects like adding reverb on sustained
    notes (one of my favorites).
    
    	db

re: .9

	Hum, two amps, volume and pan peddle! Sounds neat. How about
	some more details. You got my curiosity aroused.

	I have a Boogie MKIII, and have done some experimenting
	bi-amping a Fender bandmaster, and Fender twin reverb.

	How about a diagram on how you wire this all up with peddles
	and effects? Whats the end result.

Rick

    
    I would love to run a twin amp set up but space & cash really limit
    me there.  I suppose if I were to use a volume pedal after another
    stompbox then the the loading effect would be buffered from the
    guitar which I imagine is the most sensitive in the chain to loading.
    
    	I would like some details of the graphic eq available
    as I am getting more than a little hooked on that idea.  It appeals
    to me as it sounds like a pretty versatile, one box, solution which
    will allow my Marshall to be driven hard enough under regular
    conditions & really hard when I'm required to play solos.
    
    Cheers
    
    	Pete.

    
    
    An EQ acts differently depending on wether or not its pre or post gain.
    A graphic Pre-gain acts to boost your pickup power, sending an
    ultra-hot signal to your preamp.  I push all the mids up and the level
    output to full on my pre-gain EQ so it hits the preamp like a freight
    train! The result is more sensitive harmonics and a compression like
    effect on your attack, as well as a boost in overall volume. 
    
    The EQ post-gain does not acheive the compression effect (which I
    like), however, you can get an incredible amount of gain boost as well
    as tone shaping capabilities having the eq in post mode. 
    
    The way I have my setup is kinda complicated at the moment, but
    basically its this: 
    
    Guit - Eq (Boss 7 band) - Preamp - FX* - Power
    
    *FX - contains Flange/Chor, Delay, 15 band graphic, Hush noise reduction.
    
    If you notice I have a setup with an eq at both sides.  The pre-gain EQ
    is punched in for solos to beef up the pickup power and add sustain.
    The post eq is used to shape the sound to an extreme (ie - the ultimate
    boogie, or the ultimate marshall crunch. Les paul and strat tones can
    be produced with an eq as well). EQ's can be very versitile if you know
    how to use them. 

    Try one out in both positions (pre and post) and see how you like
    it.  Maybe try two!  
    
    Buck

	+........................
			:	:  max level
			>	\.................. +
	input	10K ohm	<<......:  controlled
		pot	>
			:				output
	-...............:.......................... -


	Here's a simple, inexpensive A/B box with a volume control.
	Total cost of parts about $ 5.00 (2 1/4" phone jacks, a 10K log
	pot and an SPDT footswitch + case and some shielded wire).

	/ravi

	Bill's got the right idea,a pre gain EQ boost before your amp
is a good way to control your volume for going from rythmn to solo. I
also use an EQ this way and I'm sure it would enhance the sound of your
Marshall. I would check out DOD Fx40 eq as they can be had for $50 or less
used and have the capabilities of giving you + or - 18db boost or cut.
I used this pedal for awhile and other than being a battery eater it
served my purpose till I went rackmount.  The Boss Ge7 will give you a
+ or - 15db boost or cut and is a little quieter and more expensive. A
rackmount EQ could cost you more than a $120,but has it's advantages.
	A multiamp setup really provides you with a lot of flexibility and
control. Of course if you are using an older Marshall you could boost
your volume with linking the bright channel with the normal with a foot
switch. But this may be real noisy.

							Rick

						

					

    OK, one amp is a Boogie which is used primarily for "lead" and
    "crunch" type sounds.
    
    The other amp is a Roland JC-120 whose primary appeal to me is that
    it will go VERY LOUD and yet stay very clean.  So naturally, I use
    it for "clean" sounds, as well as certain affects.  It also has
    a very nice builtin stereo chorus which sounds great, but doesn't
    mic very well (probably phase cancellation).
    
    The JC also has multiple inputs and channels which makes it easy to
    use it with different inputs that you want to control separately.
    In fact, I also use the JC-120 to amp my keyboard rig (I play both
    keys and guitar with my current band(s)).  In fact, the JC has
    3 inputs going into it (direct guitar, keyboard, effects).
    
    I am always experimenting with setup changes.  It has been wildly
    different at every DECjam gig I've played, but there are some basic
    things that I could go over.
    
    The output of the guitar goes through some effects, and then
    into a streo pan pedal.  The pan pedal is used to send it to either
    the JC or the Boogie (or a mix of both).  Now, my guitar is stereo
    and so sometimes the division between the amps is done AT THE GUITAR
    using the pickup selector switch (I did it this way at Summerjam).
    
    Here's where things get a little crazy.  I run a delay via the effects
    loop on the Boogie, but I also having the Boogie preamp out going
    into my KEYBOARD MIXER.  From there I can use the effects in my
    keyboard rack.   
    
    Generally speaking, the direct signal from the guitar is only used to
    drive effects.   What this means is that the efx sends on the keyboard
    mixer are all set to "pre-fader" so that none of the input signal
    gets thru to the output.  Only what comes back from the efx, and that's
    what I send back to the JC.
    
    If I put a volume pedal across that, I can sorta effects in and out
    via the volume pedal.  I am *REALLY* into doing that with the reverb,
    and the delay.   The way it generally works is that if I'm playing
    something "busy" (notes, fast notes, or full chords), the reverb
    is kept low, but when I hold a note for sustain, I bring the effect
    back up.
    
    This is a fairly complicated capital-intensive set up, and what I
    bring to parties, gigs, jams, etc. is very simple (guitar, cord,
    amp).   I use the full rig mainly at home, and for DECjams.
    
    Having finally found some key parts that I need, I'm planning to build
    a custom pedal board that will allow me to set it up and carry it
    around much easier.
    
    Hope this explanation was understandable.
    
    	db

re: < Note 850.15 by DREGS::BLICKSTEIN "Yo!" >

I generally follow what you are doing, although it is more complicated
than anything I'd try (other than to just experiment a bit).
    
You lost me when you started getting into the keyboard mixer. Probably cause 
can't visualize the ins and outs of all of that stuff without a wiring
diagram. Anyway, I won't ask you to refine you explaination, cause it's 
probably well beyond what I would attempt anytime in the near future.
    
I like the idea of using a Boggie for leads, and the JC for loud clean.
JC has a wicked chorus too huh. It's also interesting that you 
use the JC for keyboard. I just started into keyboards, but don't have 
a KB amp yet. Knowing that the JC it can do double duty is a big plus 
in its favor. JC might be my second amp whenever I save some $.
Right now I have access to some fenders as second amps, but I can 
pretty much get a fender sound from the boogie. (with some knob
twittling)

Pan-peddles are new to me. Can you use a mono signal in, and
have varied volume (pan) on the two output channels? What I'm thinking
might be neat is a (mono) guitar into the pan, with an output to
two amps, to give a kind of variable intensity channel switching
between the two amps. Seems simple enough, would it work?

When you start adding in mixers, stereo effects, the possibilities
get staggering real quick. 

Rick

    You could look at the keyboard mixer as being a Y chord:
    
    It sorta conceptually looks like this:
    
    			   Keyboard Mixer
    
    		      /----- Effect 1 -----\
    Guitar input ----+------ Effect 2-------+------ Vol Pedal ----  JC-120
    		      \----- Effect 3 -----/
    
    Where the output of the effects is 100% wet (only reverb, delay, etc.
    none of the original signal).
    
    The overall purpose is to be able to vary the mix of the effects
    via a pedal.   I don't consider this a necessary - it's just something
    I like to do.
    
    The JC-120 does real fine as a multi-purpose amp.  It has both hi and
    low inputs so it can be used with keyboards or guitar, and it's a true
    stereo amp with two DISCRETE CHANNELS (as opposed to what most guitar amps
    call "channels").   And as I've said, it'll go real loud without
    distorting.
    
> Pan-peddles are new to me. Can you use a mono signal in, and
> have varied volume (pan) on the two output channels? What I'm thinking
> might be neat is a (mono) guitar into the pan, with an output to
> two amps, to give a kind of variable intensity channel switching
> between the two amps. Seems simple enough, would it work?
    
    That's exactly what a pan pedal does.
    
    The basic "pan pedal" has one input and two outputs.  Rotating the
    pedal acts like the "balance" control on your stereo (or the "pan"
    knobs on your mixer) if the source is mono.
    
    Some pan pedals have two inputs.  A unit with two inputs generally
    acts as either a "stereo volume" (a volume pedal for a stereo signal),
    or like the balance control on your stereo with a stereo source.
    My stereo Morley allows me to switch between these two modes of
    operation (as well as a few other things).
    
    	db

    I am using a stereo setup that works great, and is much simpler
    than what db is using. I have two Fender Twin amps. One is the
    new version "The Twin" which has channel switching, an effects loop,
    etc. The other is an old silver-face Twin. The new Twin has a 
    great tube distortion sound which it creates primarily in the preamp
    stage. I am also using an Alesis MidiverbII multieffects unit which
    can do mono-to-mono, mono-to-stereo (pseudo-stereo), or stereo-to-
    stereo, whichever you prefer. I use it mono-to-stereo to create
    the stereo field. My wiring looks like this:
    
    guitar>>"Twin input-effect send>>MVII input - L out>>Twin eff ret.
    						  R out>>Silver face
    
    The way this works is as follows. I plug my guitar into the new
    Twin input. The signal goes through the preamp stage of this amp.
    At this point the channel switching determines whether I am using
    the rhythm channel for clean sound or the lead channel for distortion.
    The preamp stage also includes the reverb, which is superb on this
    amp (much better spacial reverb than in the silver-face twin for
    some reason). The signal then exits the amp via the effect send.
    The effect loop on this amp is buffered and has 3 levels which you
    can select. The signal then goes into the MidiverbII input as a
    mono signal. I take the left output from the MVII back to the Twin
    effect return. I then take the right output from the MVII and connect
    it to the silver faced Twin. I set the silver face Twin for a pretty
    much clean sound with flat response, and set the volume so it is
    equal with the volume of the new Twin. 
    
    	I have a pan pedal, but I don't use it because this setup works 
    great as it stands. When I started thinking about getting into a stereo
    setup, I had visions of using miles of cable, pan pedals, and a
    switching nitemare, but this setup eliminates all the confusion and 
    hassle. Once I set the silver faced amp at the proper volume level, 
    I forget it and play as if I was only using one amp. If I decide I want
    to use any additional effects, I have the option of placing them
    between the guitar and the amp, or I can place them between the
    effect send and the MVII. I suppose if I wanted to add a volume
    pedal I would place it between the eff send and the MVII as apposed
    to the other way. This would provide a constant "hot" signal to
    the amps' preamp stage.
    
    	My future plans include replacing the MidiverbII with a unit
    that does layered effects. I would like to dedicate the MidiverbII
    to my PA rack, and get something new for the guitar. As much as
    I like rack-mount equipment, I am seriously considering getting
    a Boss ME-5 which is a floor unit. Don't get me wrong, rack
    mount equipment is great, and I love the MVII, but in order to
    have full control of a rack mount midied unit, I would need to get
    some kind of midi floor controller unit. The ME-5 has everything
    in one self contained unit which sits on the floor and provides
    64 patches for storing programs. It also has stereo outputs so it
    could drive both amps. The ME-5 was designed around the Roland GP8.
    It does not have everything the GP8 has (it is missing the envelope
    follower, and wah effects), but it does have digital reverb, which
    the GP8 does not have. In order to control a GP8 from the floor,
    an optional $200 pedal board is needed. This gets into great expense,
    and also involves quite a bit of cabling, which I would like to
    avoid. Tom Desrochers recently purchased an ME-5 and he loves it.
    I can testify that he sounds great through this unit.
    
    	I guess the bottom line as far as stereo setups go, is that
    they are not for everyone. Most players cannot justify the expense
    of buying 2 amps, and most people wouldn't want to carry around
    2 amps anyways, especially 2 100 lb Twins. If you prefer to travel
    light (guitar, cord, amp), then this is not for you. If you are
    like me, and already have tons of gear to contend with, then what
    is an extra 100 lbs. The biggest thing for me was the expense, but
    in my case, I felt I needed to upgrade to a new amp anyways, and
    I figured why get rid of the silver-faced Twin. 
     
    While I am on the subject of the ME-5, I would like to hear some
    opinions on this unit, since I am seriously considering getting
    one in the near future. Is there anything else out there that is
    comparable to this unit ? Anyone else demo this unit besides me ?
    
    Mark Jacques
    

    One thing that you might want to check out if you decide to go stereo
    is a Morley pedal called a "Stereo swivel volume pan".
    
    It swivels left and right for panning, and up and down for volume.
    A really neat box.
    
    
    Ashley in smogland

re: .18

	Nice set-up! Simple enough for me to try right now.
	I like splitting after the effects send, sending one
	back and the other forward. The only stereo effect that
	I now have is a Boss chorus, but that should get me the split
	and allow chorus sound across two amps for rhythm. I also have 
	a mono analog delay, and I should be able to put that in line
	line to get an "across two amps" delay.

	I may give this a try tonight.

	Thanks for the inspiration, and keep on pushin 'dem limits.

Rick

    ...another solution would be possibly replacing the existing pickups
    with a coil tapped humbucker variety.
    Seymour Duncan does good ones.
    Regards
    Jeff Jansen  P&T  @ F1/10 SBP UK