Conference napalm::guitar

    Yes to a small degree and that is why most locking systems have
    the fine tuners on the bridge.
    
    dbii

    You absolutely need a bridge with fine tuning if you have a locking
    nut.  It's not optional.
    
    	db

    I totally agree!  Fine tuners with a locking nut are imperative.
    
    I once (ONCE) bought a nice Aria guitar that had a knife edge trem
    and locknut, but no fine tuners.  I got it home and had the same
    problem you (Tony) are now experiencing.  It went directly back
    to the store for a refund.  
    
    What happens is that the strings pass through the locking nut at a
    slight angle, on most guitars.  This causes them to pull up sharp when
    the nut is locked down (because the strings have to stretch to fit flat
    in the nut).  Because of the varying diameters of the strings, the
    higher strings will be more sharp than the lower ones.  It's a real
    pain.
    
    Greg
 

    I think there's a point that hasn't been made clear.
    
    I'm not sure why you felt you had to have a locking nut.  Presumably
    it was so that your trem bar would stay in tune.
    
    But see the thing is, that a "locking trem" is really a SYSTEM
    that includes:
    
    	o A locking at or behind the nut
    
    	o a tremolo bridge with fine tuners and usually rollers
    
    If you have a the bridge, but not the locking nut, you will
    be able to tune it, but using the bar aggressively will still
    cause the guitar to go out of tune.
    
    If you have a locking nut but not a brige with fine tuners,...
    well... you've seen why that won't work (can't tune the guitar).
    
    So the point is that the proper bridge without a locking nut
    doesn't buy you very much, and a nut without a proper bridge
    makes the guitar almost useless.
    
    So you have to either get a proper bridge, or not lock
    the strings with the locking nut (i.e. the locking nut was
    a wasted effort).
    
    	db

    There are tuning pegs out there someplace that you can actually
    lock the string into when you wind it on (there's a screw inside
    the peg that tightens against the string).  I don't know the name
    of the company that makes them or if they're available as an "after-
    market" type of thing.  This approach might be a lot less expensive
    than buying a trem unit to go with your locking nut.  I think the
    company is Spurzel (or something).
    
    Mark Jacques help me out here??
    
    joe.

    Note that you don't necessarily have to by a bridge with a trem bar.
    
    There are normal (non-trem) bridges available with fine tuners for
    much less money than the typical trem bridge.
    
    For example, there's one in the 1988 Carvin catalog for $36.95.
    Whereas I think things like Kahlers and Floyd Roses start at well
    over $100.  I've used a guitar with this bridge and the tuners
    on it are much smoother than than Kahlers or Roses.  It's no
    cheapo bridge (you can adjust the intonation and string height
    of each string individually if I remember correctly).
    
    	db
    
    	db

    Oh one more thing.
    
    Although I'm still unsure of your motivations ("to keep the pup in
    tune" doesn't tell me if you meant to have a guitar that stays in
    tune when using the trem bar, or just to have a guitar that stays
    in tune), I should mention that putting a nutlock on a guitar with
    a "normal" trem bar (one that doesn't have rollers) is not going
    to accomplish much either.   It will be "better" but it will NOT
    stay in tune.   I may not have made this clear in my past replies.
    
    Point is that to get a trem bar that stays in tune, you need a nutlock
    AND a trem bar with fine tuning and rollers (or an equivalent design).
    
    	db

                          
    I wanted the guitar to stay in tune *all* the time (doesn't everybody
    ??) ie, when using the whammy and when I'm not using a whammy.
                          
    
    > Point is that to get a trem bar that stays in tune, you need a nutlock
    > AND a trem bar with fine tuning and rollers (or an equivalent design).
                          
    Yeah, I gathered that.
    -Tony

    re .6  Joe is right, Sperzel tuners are a good alternative to
    locking nuts. With a normal tuner (precision or not) you have to
    have 2-3 turns of string around the post. The way the Sperzel
    works is on the back of the headstock, the tuner has a thumbwheel
    that you turn which drives a pin up and down inside the post.
    To string the guitar, you back off the thumbwheel, insert the 
    string through the hole in the post, pull the string snugly
    so there is no slack in the string, then tighten the thumbwheel.
    Once you do this, you tune to pitch. The end result is that only
    about 1/4 - 1/2 turn worth of string is wrapped around the post.
    This eliminates slippage at the headstock completely. I believe
    this is superior to locking nuts because 1. It makes it easier
    to change strings and tune the guitar. 2. It is not as radical
    an installation job as installing a locking nut. Most locking
    nuts require you to drill all the way through the neck, or they
    require that you use fairly large wood screws into the top of the
    neck, neither of which is very kind to a neck. The nut area of a
    neck is the most fragile part of any guitar, and drilling and/or
    screwing into this area can easily weaken a neck. 
    
    You would be surprised how well a stock Strat tremelo works with
    these tuners installed. It may be a good idea to also change the
    nut to a graphite nut to eliminate friction when using a tremelo.
    
    Installation of these tuners requires the usual amount of hacking
    associating with changing from stock tuners to precision tuners
    (the holes in the headstock have to be enlarged to accomidate the
    larger post, and a small hole must be drilled into the back of the
    headstock, for each tuner, to accomidate a pin which prevents the 
    tuners from spinning or moving.
                        
    I am assuming that once a person installs a locking nut, there is
    no going back to the stock nut due to the holes which have been
    drilled into the neck. It is unfortuneate if someone goes through
    this much work and expense only to find the locking nut was the
    wrong choice to begin with.
    
    I installed Sperzel tuners on my Telecaster which, of course, is
    non-tremelo, but I was planning on replacing the stock Fender tuners
    with Schallers or Grovers, and I figured I might as well go with
    the Sperzels anyways. As a result, my Telecaster stays in tune so
    well, I only have to tune it once a week or so. I plan to eventually
    get a hipshot string bender for it, and I am sure that having the
    locking tuners will pay off when it comes time to use the string
    bender.
    
         
    Mark Jacques
    

    Schaller now offers locking tuners and via Stewart McDonald's
    they're quite a bargan compared to the local price for Sperzals...

                                      
    dbII

    Note however, one problem that locking tuners do not fix (and locking
    nuts do) is the problem of pulling strings thru the nut.  Unless
    you keep you nut well lubricated with graphite or whatever, eventually
    the nut will pinch the string as it's being bent (or released) and
    not let go when it's released.
    
    Installation of locking nuts is a pain.  However, it's a one-time
    thing.  I haven't found changing the strings on a nutlock equipt
    guitar to be significantly painful in anyway.  It's an extra 10
    seconds or so for each string (assuming you get one with a flip
    tab, not one that requires Allen wrenches).
    
    I.E. a locking tuner is (as it was described), a good alternative
    to locking nuts, but it's important to note that it will NOT work
    as well as a locking nut, but it may work acceptably.
    
    BTW, I would recommend locking nuts even for guitars w/o trem bars
    (but WITH bridges with fine tuning of course).   I rarely use the
    trem bar on my Carvin but even so, it stays in tune much better thru
    normal use (particularly string bends) much better than my friends
    Carvin who does NOT have a locking nut.
    
    	db

    re: db  ...trem with rollers...
    
    A Floyd Rose has no rollers, you are of course referring to a Kahler
    or similar?  My Charvel with Jackson (modified FR) stays in tune
    very well, even with heavy trem (ab)use.
    
    Greg

    
    
    I was lucky - the holes I had to screw in the neck were *very* small.
    I'll remove the locknut and get a new truss-rod cover thingy, and
    the damage will not be noticeable.
                                      
    Can anyone give me an indication as to the price of the locking
    tuners.                           
                                      
    Thanx in advance,
    -Tony

    > You always gotta have that allen wrench available.
    
    Not true.  Nowadays locking nuts that don't require ANY tools
    are readily available.   With these kind of nuts, the extra
    time to change a string is on the order of about 5 seconds per
    string: 4 seconds to thread it thru and about one second to flip
    the tab after you've tuned it.  That's about the same order of
    time as a locking tuner, maybe even less.
    
    Using the latest stuff, locking nuts really aren't a pain at all and
    they are usually much cheaper than a set of new locking tuners.
    
    	db

    re .14   I paid $50.oo for my Sperzels. They are mini in-line.
    I believe the 3-on-a-side (Gibson style) are the same price. The only
    place I know of that carries them is Hamel Music in Chelmsford,Ma.
    They are available in Gold, Black, and Stainless (not quite as
    shiny as chrome). Mine are black. 
    
    If that is too expensive, look into the Schallers as db2 stated.
    
    If you are not in Massachusetts, you can find Sperzel's address
    in an earlier note, and order them direct. Do DIR/TITLE="SPERZEL"
    to find the note.
     
    Good luck,
    Mark Jacques
    

    Mr. Dallison is in the U.K.  Where is Sperzel located?  If they're
    a U.S. company, maybe someone could call and get the name of a
    U.K. distributor??  Or, if they're a European company, then maybe
    someone can send the phone number to Tony so he can call and get
    info. about a local distributor.
    
    joe.

    See note 460.3 for address.
    

    
    
    RE.18
    
    Hey, thats a great idea Joe.  If anybody has got and address/phone
    number of a U.K. distributor/supplier, please post it here.
    
    Cheers,
    -Tony  @Reading, England

    All of this discussion brings to mind a story I once heard from
    my music teacher in Jr High School. She was giving trumpet lessons
    to a kid who had a terrible time getting the thing tuned up. One
    day at the end of the lesson he asked her to tune it for him
    before he left, so she adjusted the tuning slide until it was perfectly
    in tune. Imagine her surprise when the kid showed up for the next
    lesson and she found out he had taken the trumpet home and had his
    father *weld* the tuning slide in place.
    
    The kid might have been a lousy musician, but he probably turned
    out to be a great engineer.
    
    - Ram

    re: .21
    
    Perhaps there's a similar approach for keeping a guitar in tune.
    
    I heard that Eddie Van Halen solders his strings.  Maybe this is
    how he manages to give his whammy such abuse and yet stay in tune.
    
    But how do you change the strings once they're soldered to the guitar?
    
    ;-)
    
    	db

    Ref: -1 How about he changes the guitar? 
    

    It always amazes me when I see someone walk into a music store and
    ask to have their guitar tuned (happened just a few weeks ago).
    
    /rick
    

    re: .24
    
    Me too!  I see it happen a lot.
    
    What makes this so surprising is that it would seem to me that the
    ability to detect that a guitar is out of tune should just about
    imply the ability to be able to tune a guitar.
    
    My latest gig is teaching kids, and tuning is my first lesson and
    not one student has ever had any problem with that.
    
    	db

    Re nuts:
    
    I was in a music store last week, and noticed a "special edition"
    Strat (don't recall the actual designation), that had special pickups
    and a nut that consisted of six individual rollers on a shaft.  The
    idea was that the strings could simply roll instead of stick.  Seemed
    like an elegant solution to me.
    
    Rodney M.

    If I remember right, that's the "Strat +" model.
    
    Regardless of the name, it also has the locking tuners.  I played
    one awhile back, just briefly, and liked it.
    
    Greg

    
    I am restoring an old guitar and the g string has a buzz on the first
    fret which I am pretty sure is due to the groove in the nut being too
    deep.  Is there a way I can fill the slot and re-groove it?  
    
    Thanks,
    -pat

    The way it's normally done is to remove the nut and shim it up a little
    higher.  
    
    You can also file off some shavings from the top of the nut and stick
    it into the slot and hit it with some super glue and then recut/file
    that slot.  
    
    If it's not a nice bone nut (or other high quality material), then
    don't even bother trying to fix it or shim it up, replace it!  A bone
    nut blank will only cost about $2-$3 and it's WELL worth it!  It would
    probably only cost you about $15 to have a repairman replace it for
    you.
    
    Greg

    
    Hey Greg I just got back from the guitar shop and they told me the 
    same thing about the filings and super glue.  They even gave me a
    small amount of bone shavings - looked like we were doing a dope deal!
    How long should it dry before restringing?  If that don't work, I'll
    take it in.  You should see this guitar/project.  25 years old!  My 
    folks got it for me when I was in 4th grade!  It's a Jap made Kingston.
    Has a maple neck, rosewood f/b, and one monster single coil.  The tuners
    were shot too, but I got some replacements.  Cranked!

	Another option is to buy some of the 2 ton white epoxy mix, and dab
	some in the groove (it should be cleaned with the edge of a tissue
	and a cleaning solution - I like to use the spray cleaner that
	Radio Shack Sells that leaves no residue - don't use the stuff
	with the added lubricant). Don't use the 5 minute epoxy, it shrinks
	over time & you'll definatly be sorry that you used it (as things
	will start falling apart in about a year). Get some fret files
	(Stewart McDonalds sells them for about $10.00 each) and take your
	time. I usually use a piece of fret wire that has had the tang
	taken off (wire cutters and a file with do this just fine) and
	hold it up against the nut so I don't cut too deep. 

								Jens

    
    Hey everbody, the nut repair process worked *great*.  Well, OK, I 
    did have have to re-do one slot because I cut it too deep the
    first time.  I used the "nut powder" and mixed it with krazy glue.  
    After sanding and filing, it looked *perfect*.  This Kingston 
    has awesome action now and no buzzes.  Yay-ya.  Thanks to Greg and 
    everybody else too.
    
    -pat

    Displaying my equipment ignorance - the nut on my bass (Epiphone
    hollow-body) broke yesterday, I couldn't find the piece that broke
    off. Someone referred to a "nut blank" - is this how they usually
    come (and it's up to me to sand and file to the right configuration),
    or can nuts be bought ready-to-install in various widths/heights/
    number of grooves?

    Mike

    Mike,
    
    Nuts made of good materials (bone, Corian, graphite, Micarta) typically
    come unslotted and only rough shaped.  You have to cut them to size,
    sand, cut the slots, and polish them yourself.  You can typically have
    a new one installed by a luthier for about $20 or so.  Depending on how
    much you value your time, it may be worth it.  It takes me at least an
    hour or so to do one nicely.  It also helps if you have the special
    tools (sized nut files that leave a rounded bottom on the grooves).
    
    You can often find cheap plastic nuts pre-slotted and sized, but I 
    wouldn't put one of 'em on any instrument I own!
    
    Greg

    re: -. last couple
    
    Not to mention painful ;^)
    

	Thanks for the info. Someone else told me they have no
	problem with the cheap plastic nuts, and since the bass
	isn't particularly good (and I'm hoping to get a new
	one some time this year), I'll try that solution.

	Mike