Conference napalm::guitar

    
    	I think that the key to getting a character_tone is the minimalist
    approach! I've said this before, that most guitar players have no
    idea what the controls even do, and simply follow the cliche' of
    "everything on 10" - just because "so 'n so" of AC Nugent does it
    that way...
    
    	In an average setup, you have;
    
    	1. Guitar volume
    	2. Amp pre volume
    	3. Amp post volume
    	4. Guitar tone
    	5. Guitar phase switch position
    	6. Amp bass
    	7. Amp mid
    	8. Amp treble
    
    	It would take at least 16 experiments, choosing only two positions
    of each of the above factors, to figure out which ones will give
    you the sound you want. It would also probably take you all day
    to carefully go through the structure sequence of the 16 experiments.
    (After which you'd know *what* and *where* to get the sound you
    like). Now, tell me, which is easier; to spend a lot of time in
    concise qualification of control capabilities - or - to just crank
    'em all to 10?
    
    	I rest my case...
    
    	Joe Jas
    

    
    I've noticed that I tend to find a tone setting that I like within
    about an hour after I get a new instrument or amp and then stick
    with it for a long time.
    
    Then I'll get into a situation where I need a different sound so
    I'll experiment, come up with new settings and wonder how I ever
    got along with the *old* settings!!!!
    
    Sometimes I'm so lazy I won't even check the knobs after setting
    up, and if they've been jostled I get some unpleasant surprises....

    Anyway my favorites, which I'll use on almost any amp (with some
    tweaking):
    
    For guitar:
    
    Bass on 4 or less
    
    Mid on 8-10
    
    Treble on 5-8
    
    Presence (if available) to taste
    
    
    For bass:
    
    Bass on 8-10, less if room sounds boomy
        
    Mid on 4 or less
    
    Treble on 6-8, more if room sounds dull

    Graphic EQ (if available): Boost at 100 Hz, cut at 400-800 Hz

    
    I always set my amp volumes so that my guitar volume control is
    only halfway up, so I have plenty of room to adjust if needed (all
    my instruments have preamps or compensated controls so there is
    no tonal loss when turning the volume down).

    On bass amps that have master volume setups, I prefer to crank the
    channel gain up pretty high (say 6-8) to get a *little* bit of
    distortion to give more "meat" to the sound.
    
    

    I use similar settings to Brian most of the time, with one exception.
    I generally adjust the amp so that I get an appropriate max lead
    volume with the guitar volumes cranked all the way up. I'd rather
    have the headroom to be able to adjust things at the guitar, but
    the tone is better when the pickups are wide open.
    
    The relative setting of the bass and treble controls depends a lot
    on the amp. My amp has internal eq settings, so a lot depends on
    how I have this set up. Also, it will depend on the acoustics of
    the room and the placement of the amp. A cabinet sitting on the
    floor will have much more bass than one on a stand of some sort.

    I have really never understood the mentality of just cranking
    everything up to 10. If amps were really designed to be used this
    way they could cut a lot of costs by just leaving the controls off
    completely.
    
    - Ram

    I set all my controls to 11  ;-)
    
    	db

                                
      Well I'll tell ya, what sounds good to me might not sound good to
    you, but with a 1969 Fender Strat (stock....well, kinda???)
    
    Clean channel:
    Pre gain  - 2      (Bright switch - OFF)
    Post gain - 8 - 10
    Bass      - 6
    Mid       - 8 
    Treble    - 8
    Pres      - 5                       
    Reverb    - 3 - 5  (Varies due to room acoustics)
    
    Lead Channel:
    Pre gain  -  7     (Bright switch - OFF)
    Saturation- 10
    Post gain -  2 - 5 (Varies due to actual volume of backline)
    Bass      -  5
    Middle    -  6
    Treble    -  8     (Thick switch - ON)
    Pres      -  5                          
    Reverb    -  0 - 5 (Varies to room acoustics)
    
    If I'm using a Les Paul, I change all the settings. 
     I use a Peavey VT-MX with a single EVM-12" (4 ohm) speaker.
      I also use an old Fender cab. w/2-12" Altecs for bigger rooms.
       I've found that speakers make a BIG difference in tone, but 
        then you all knew that. 
    
    You know Bill, 
            By installing JBL's in a 4-12" Marshall cab and porting
    the back of the cabinet, it'll also warm up the sound. You should
    have asked the guy what type of speakers he was using. They don't
    have to be Celestions ya know. I knew this guy in N.Y.C. that ran
    a Marshall 50 watt head through a Marshall 4-12 cab. loaded with 
    JBL's and an open back. It had a real nice warm tone too. BTW, he 
    was also using a Strat.   
    
    Use all the above information with a grain of salt.
     Only you're the best judge of the sound "you" want. 
      If one person likes everything at "11", then go for it!
       If the next guy doesn't, then fine for him too!
        I like my sound 80% of the time. It'll crunch and feedback 
         when I want it to and run super clean when I press the foot 
          switch. What more can I ask for? It does the job for me and
           I'm happy with it!
                             
    Fred-who-thinks-EVERYTHING-can-be-improved.......just give me one
    more minute!

    I have two amps and I set them this way:
    
    Fender studio lead
    
    Clean channel
    
    Bass 4
    mid  8
    treble 5
    
    dirty channel
    
    bass 4
    mid 8
    treble 7
    reverb 7-8
    
    Music man RD-112
    
    clean channel
    
    volume 1  full
    volume 2  as required (output)
    
    dirty channel
    
    volume 1 8
    volume 2 as required (output)
    
    treble 7
    mid    4-5
    bass   1
    
    reverb 5
            
    I use the volume and tone knobs of the guitar to get fine tuning
    on the sounds...I'm very picky on how much treble I use, one 'cuz
    it hurts my ears, two because I use a strat and it's a bit trebly..
    
    dbII

    
    What about you Bill?
     How do *you* stand on this issue and what settings do you use?
    
    How about Mr. Desrochers? Where do *you* stand on this Tom?
     Come on Tom-ato...... what is your favorite tone and how do
      "YOU" get that tone out of your amp? You can't just say...
       "well...I have a Boogie", because you "could" get some real 
         disgusting sounds out of your Boogie (_if_you_really_wanted_to_),
          that would make babies cry and dogs bark for miles around. ;^)
        
    What's *YOUR* secret?
    
    Anyone else?

    
    Well, with the gk, I used to put iot all to 10, except for Pres
    which only made it to about 7.
    
    The marshall, well, mid is always up 7-10. bass to room, treble
    5-8, pres 2-5, vol's 10

    
    Volume on 10??  Saturday, I put my boogie up the loudest it's
    ever been... master on 6, clean on 5 with distortion pedal.
    Painful to say the least!! 
    
    Tone has alot to do with the guitar/amp combination.  I had an
    early 70's ES335 that had no tone.  My '62 has a very fat tone.
    With the guitar volume on 5 to 7, it's very clean.  8 to 10 made
    those PAF's distort nicely.  At the SeasonJams, I almost never
    used distortion.
    
    Normal settings for me (assuming fairly new strings) would be:
    
    Master volume:	2
    Clean volume:	3 to 4
    Treble:		6
    Midrange:		5
    Bass:		10 (always)
    Presence:		5
    Reverb:		5 
    			  _ _
    Graphic EQ:		-     - -  (just above flat)
    

    From reading the replies here, I noticed that everyone except for
    Tom D sets the treble high, bass low on their amp. I tend to side
    with Tom on this matter, especially if you are using a guit with
    single coils. I used to get complaints from other band members if
    I set the treble too high. Also, from reading various interviews
    in GP, etc. I found that most of the players with superb tone 
    (guys like Carlos Santana, Joe Walsh, Jerry Garcia)  all advocate
    using more bass than treble). However, I have found that the use
    of effects (especially chorus) tends to muddy up the sound if the
    bass is set too high, and the treble too low. This sort of makes
    me wonder if a midi-preamp like the ADA MP1 or similar would be
    a good way to go for getting the right tone with differant effects.
    What it adds up to is there is no "ONE" setting that will be right
    all the time, especially when switching pickups, effects, and guitars
    in the course of an evening.
    
    Per usual this is all pure opinion !!!!
    
    Mark Jacques
                                                       
    

    On my Twin Reverb (With very bright Altec 12" speakers),  I like:
    
    Reverb Channel: Volume: 3-4
    		    Bright Switch: On
                    Treble: 5
    		    Midrange: 10
    		    Bass: 8
    		    Reverb: 3
                         
    Master Volume:  3-5
    
    I usuall play on the treble (bridge) pickup & do not have any tone
    controls on my guitar (Mity-Mite Humbucking Pickups). This gives
    me an even tone. I often use both pickups, or swap to the bass (neck)
    pickup to give ma a variation on sounds. Usually the Treble pickup's
    volume control (on the guitar) its set to 100% on, and the bass pickup's
    volume is set to 90% on. My stomp boxes are used to quickly vary
    the sounds of the instrument.
    
    							Jens

    Help QUICK !
    
    I am gigging in a local pup tonight and have the opportunity to
    use a Marshall stack (100w master vol') for the first(ISH) time.

    My problem is that I have only practiced with it for about 3 hours
    last night, fairly loud. I can't get a decent sound from the beast
    at lower volumes suitable for pub work, mind you it will probably
    get louder later in the evening :-)
    
    I need some advice on settings etc before this evening or it's back
    to the trusted Yamaha. I really don't want to pass up this chance.

    I'll be playing rhythm guitar (quite a bit of cut required) on either
    a Strat' or Tele custom.
    
    I'll need to start with master vol' about 3/4 (small pub!) at this
    level all the 'tone' seems to be bass and muffled, what am I doing
    wrong ?

    I also have access to a range of pedals if need be (not normally
    used). I often play very 'clean', I would like to maintain this
    if poss' and not have to overdrive too much.
    
    HELP ME PLEASE :-)
    
    Graham ...

    If all you want is a clean sound, it should be pretty easy. I would
    set the master on 10. Tweak the channel vol from off to just where
    it kicks in. If that is too loud for your application, turn the
    volume on the guitar down. For clean sound, many people set the
    volume on their guitar to 8 or less. If you have powerful pickups,
    they can overdrive the input stage on an amp. Rolling the vol
    back to 8 or less cleans up the sound 100%. You could also use
    a volume pedal to keep the volume in check. Make sure the tone
    settings on the guitar are on 10, or else you will get a muddy sound.
    
    Experimenting at a gig is kinda risky. I would arrive plenty early
    and if you can't get the Marshall to sound properly don't use it.
    Bring your Yamaha along just in case.
    
    Are you thinking of buying this beast, or just trying it for the
    hell of it ??
    
    Good luck,
    
    Mark Jacques
    

    re .13   the titie should be <Shouldn't be that hard>
            
    

    Re .13
    		I'll try as you say, I hope it works.
    
    		No I'm not going to buy the stack.
    
    		The reason for using it is 3 fold :-
    
    	1. the rest of the band use stacks of some sort or another
    	   and I come over a little tinny in comparison.
     	   The Yamaha is a 2x10.
    	   8 x 12 gives a somewhat bigger sound I believe :-)
    	
    	2. We're recording tonights gig for prosperity as the drummer	
 	   is comming your side of the pond for a year. We're playing
    	   our last gig next week, again we will record it, perhaps
    	   I'll have the marshall settings right by then !
    
    	3. who can resist the offer of Chopping a meaty 12 bar blues
    	   through a Marshall stack ? 
    	   (No '3 chord crap' comments please, It's all I can play :-)).
    
    
    	
    	I think I've mentioned the band *several* time previously !
    	:-)
	
    	But we do the usual R 'n B stuff with a bit of guts and momentum.
       
    	SRV's Scuttle Buttin'		60's Soul (20 mins) Medley
       	Chuck Berry			John Lee Hooker
    	Dr Feelgood			Muddy Waters
    	George Thorghgood (sp)		B.B King
    	Blues Brothers (covers of covers!)			
    	9 Below Zero                    Blues Band			
    	Booker T. and the M.G's - Green Onions
    	Champs - Tequilla		Early Z.Z. Top
 	    
    	Etc. etc. etc.
    	
	Anybody else in a band(s) they're proud to tell us about ?
    	or has this been done ?

    	Graham ...

    
    
    Well, basically the 100WT marshalls have a lot of headroom in them
    to begin with, so you need not worry about going into massive overdrive
    (esp with single coil pickups)!
    
    If its a small pub, I would guess you would NOT want to put your
    100 marshall's master volume to 4. That is LOUD (or at least it
    used to be with my 100WT marshall!)  I wouldn't be afraid to use
    a bit of the preamp volume, it helps add meat to your sound. I
    mean, you don't wanna play totally clean, do you?
    
    Anyway, note the Marshall has two inputs. There is a high gain
    (I) and low gain (II) input. The low gain input is almost too low gain
    for my tastes, but you may check it out. Here is `my' recommended
    starting point:
    
    Place guitar on most used pickup setting (volume and tone should
    be to 10).  Plug into the High gain input (no. I).  Place the
    Presence, Bass, Mid, Treble and Preamp to 5.  Turn up the master
    volume to taste.  You should notice the bass doesn't kick in til
    the master volume is around 2.  See how it sounds.  At this point,
    you can boost or cut any frequencies you see fit, as well as adjusting
    the preamp control to get more or less distortion.  If you boost,
    you'll notice you'll get more volume, you can cut this at the master
    if its too loud. 
    
    When I play a strat thru a marshall, and I wanna get a clean but
    singing sound, here are the settings I use (note this is a 50WT
    Marshall):
    
    Pres      Bass	Mid	Treb	Preamp	  Master  
    
     6         10       8-9      6-8      7         10  
    
    Yeah, master 10, but like I said its a 50WT...
    
    Buck              

    
    RE: .13
    
    	> I am gigging in a local pup tonight
    
    
    Poor dog!  I hope he can hold all your equipment! 8^)))))

    Thanx Gents,
    		To those that suggested setting for the Marshall stack.
    		The pup/pub on suffered minor discomfort, the reel of
    		sticky tape worked wonders !
    
    		I started nice and low, but it did creep up.
    		We encored with 'Alright Now' (how origonal !)
		low, mid, High. guitar and pre-amp all on 10
    		master on about 6. BOSH !!!
    
    		My love affair with my car is over. Isn't the
    		Marshall gorgeous !?
 
    	Graham ...

    OK, after awhile with my current setup, I've realized that I hate
    my sound.  It always sounds OK to me live, but when I listen back
    to tapes it sounds totally tinny and trebly, yucko.
    
    Here's the current setup:
    
    	Ibanez RG550 (two humbuckers neck/bridge with a single in the
        middle)
    		|
    		|
 		V
    	ProCo Rat distortion pedal (set at close to unity gain)
    		|
    		|
    		V
    	Rockman Eq (12-band) (unity gain)
    		|
    		|
    		V
    	ART Multiverb (yup, unity gain again)
    		|
    		|
    		V
    	Fender Twin (1971-ish w/master volume)

	I used to run the Eq like this (more or less):
    		        _ _
                _ _ _ -      - _
    0	_ _ _ -

        And the twin like this:
    
    	Bass	7
    	Mid	4 - 5
    	Treb	7 - 8
    
	Now I run the Eq like this:
    	      _ _ - - _  
   0 	_ _ -           - - _ _
    
    	And the twin like this:
    
    	Bass	7 - 8
    	Mid	3 - 4
    	Treb	4 - 5

    I like this tone much, much better.  Obviously, it's a lot less
    thin-sounding, and much warmer and fatter.  The problem now is that
    I don't seem to cut through the rest of the band as well.  I run the
    guit vol/tone at 10 because I don't like the way the tone rolls off
    when set any lower (sometimes I cut the guit volume back to like 8 or
    so).  I've been running the twin at channel volume of 4 - 5 and
    master vol at 4 - 5.
    
    What's a boy to do? (Besides getting a Marshall ;^)
    
    joe.

    Joe,
    
    I learned a cool trick from Mike Butkus one afternoon.  Try turning up
    your Presence all the way, and you treble all the way down. It gives me
    a bright but punchy tone thats cuts like a knife... Perhaps you can use
    your EQ if the Twin doesn't have a presence control.
    
    jc (Who loves this tone) 

    No presence on the twin.  It's probably just a matter of tweaking
    and boosting the volume a tad...
    
    	joe.

    Thats the attitude Joe !  Nothing like cranking the volume up to
    solve tone problems !  
    
    jc (Who sez pain makes everything sound good !)

    Hey Joe, I had the same problems when I got my MP-1.  
    
    I set up all these patches (some on suggestions of folks here) that I
    thought sounded great.  ...and they did, by themselves.  But with the
    rest of the band they sounded real trebly and stuck out like a sore
    thumb most of the time.  Before the next weeks practice I went through
    them and basically flattened out the EQ on all them, specifically
    avoided pumping up the high end and presence.  I also added some
    compression and a little more reverb.
    
    They work a LOT better now.  It probably has something to do with my
    playing style (essentually sloppy), but I find that lots of high end
    sounds really bad for me.  
    
    Greg

    RE:  MP-1 tone settings.
    
    Yo GH, you play a Charvel, right?  Those guitars can sounds thin and
    trebly real easy (due to the ceramic nature of those pickups!).  I know
    the settings on my guits had to be real trebly due to the thickness and
    general bassyness of my guitar/pickups. 

    
    
    RE:  MP-1 tone settings.
    
            I would have to agree with Buckley in that Charvels can
    sound real thin and trebly. I have known three friends with Model 4's
    and they all had that high end, trebly sound. One stuffed toilet
    paper into the back where his tremelo springs were and it really
    gave him better sound. (Why he used toilet paper I'll never know!!?)
    Try stuffing the quickerpickerupper in there and see if it helps.
    It never hurts to try.
    
    
                                         Best of luck to ya,
                                                            R.C.
    
    

    On the subject of tone, why do I see so many strat owners taking the
    tremelo spring cover off the back of their axes?  Does this affect
    tone? If so, how?
    
    Steve

    re -.1
    
    Speaking for myself, it makes it easier to change strings
    and make adjustments. I usually leave it on, though. I 
    doubt very much that it would have any affect on the tone
    of the instrument. Might facilitate feedback, though...
    
    -Tom

    I leave the cover off of my Charvel's for a couple reasons... As
    with Tom, it's a lot easier to mess with the tremelo settings (the
    spring claw).  As we've discussed in the past, when you set up a
    floyd-type trem, it's very important to have the bezel plate parallel
    to the guitar body, and these adjustments are made with the spring
    claw...
    
    I also find that that I do get a better tone when the guitar gets
    squirelly and starts feeding back (the good type with natural
    harmonics).  With the cover, the feedback takes a bit longer to
    get started, and tends to break a lot faster too.  I feel that my 
    style lends itself well to that feedback.
    
    There are also the old "ala-Jimi" tricks of picking the springs
    etc...
    
    jc (Who sez:  Feedback is where it's at!)

    the real reason is it looks cooler when you play
    with your teeth :-|

    /rick  

    I'm ROOOLLLING !!  Thats it !  Thats what I was trying to say in
    my last reply !
    
    Agagagagaga

    re: .24
    
    Yeah, I play that Charvel most of the time.  I agree that sometimes it
    sounds kind of bright (and sort of sterile).  I think that I actually
    set up most of those patched using my Hamer too, which probably didn't
    help, and in my front bedroom with lotsa carpet and stuff on the walls
    to damp the sound.   Maybe my battery is getting low too.
    
    re: .25
    
    How does the toilet paper in the springs help with the Mod 4s sounding
    thin?  I admit that it would certainly be convenient if I needed a
    quick wipe or something though...  8^)
    
    FWIW, I adjust my trem, then put the spring cover back on. Keeps the
    edges of the cavity from getting all beat up.  I left mine off for a
    couple of weeks awhile back when I was changing the trem arm assembly
    and I couldn't tell a difference in the sound.
    
    Greg  (Why not?  I'll try anything once)

     I believe the problem with the guitar in .19 is that the pots
    are bleeding too much high end to ground when the volume is
    turned down.....there was an article in G.P. several years ago,
    and if memory serves me, all that's involved is soldering a small
    capacitor across one of the existing connections...very basic and
    no changes to the existing wiring

    RE: .32 thanks for the tip.  Any idea how long ago it was?
    I've got issues that go back a year-and-a-half or so.
    
    joe.

re: .32 Have you ever tried this? I did on one of my tele's and it totally
changed the sound of the guitar, I took it out.

dbii

    
    
    	Me, too Dave... made my new (steve built) tele sound pretty tinny! 
    I've heard that using an RC network with the .001 cap and a 150k
    resistor works better.. but I haven't tried it??  Anybody done so??
    
    
    |  |  |---grnd
    |  |
    |  |----to output
    |
    |---from switch
    
    
    -.oo1cap-
    -150k-    between switch lead and output lead...
    
    
    Regards,
    Steve

    
     re: .31 (on .25)
    
        Don't quote me on this but I think he got the idea on something
    Eddie VH did once.I not very friendly with this person anymore so
    all I can say is try it for the "WTF".
    
                                                  Happy wiping,
                                                               R.C.
    

If your pickups aren't total wimps (it is a pickup loading problem, your volume
control loads the pickup output down and sacrafices the highs in the process) 
then changing the pots to a higher value (like 1Meg) helps a great deal. On my
thinline it came that way already (those old fender humbuckers are real wimps)

dbii