Conference napalm::guitar

    
    Wild guess...20 watts.
    
    Sidekick models are built in Japan, and sold as "student" amps.
    All of them are solid state.
    
    List price??? Just a guess, around $200.
    
    I briefly owned a Sidekick 30 Bass Amp and it was all right but
    not worthy IMO of the Fender name.
    
    A friend owns a Sidekick 10 which he uses for playing in the street
    (it can be run on batteries).   
    
    

    I also have a Sidekick 10.  It's solid state, 8" speaker, can be run on
    batteries (or car lighter socket). It has a master volume control, but
    doesn't develop much distortion (at least that sounds good).  It gets
    surprisingly loud for it's size. 

    It was about $90 new, about 3 years ago.  I personally think it's
    got a pretty good tone, for it's size.  Kind of warm.  I bought
    it on vacation and was in a rush, maybe could have done better,
    but it fit the bill for what I needed at the time.
                                                      
    Greg

    
    
    
    	Ummmm.. I have another dumb amp question.  I thought that I'd try
    my (beloved) real tube pedal through the effects loop on my Concert
    Head this weekend and it didn't work the way I thought that it would.
    
    
    	I plugged the SEND into the input of my pedal (this would be
    pre-amp out right?)  and fed the output of my pedal into the RECEIVE
    jack (power amp in???) and got some bodacious noise and wicked low
    volume.. scared the shit out of me... thought that I was "cooking" my
    amp....  then I noticed that each of the loop jacks has its own level
    so I fudged around with the level knobs for a while and didn't get
    squat.  Needless to say, my drive pedal is back in front of the input
    as god intended.. but what the heck are these loop doodads anyways??? 
    What would I use them for???
    
    
    Regards,
    Steve

    The real-tube pedal is designed to recieve a signal directly from the
    guitar which is an "instrument level signal" (ie: something in the
    order of 100mv). The efx loop on your amp probably operates at "line"
    levels (ie: 1v). The 1v signal is being driven into the pedal which
    expects to see a 100mv signal. This is essentially 10 times more
    *amplitude* than the pedal is designed to handle. You are simply
    overwhelming the pedal, causing it's input stage to saturate to the
    point of shutting down completely. 
    
    Many amps have efx loops with adjustable drive levels. This would
    help, but for all intents and purposes the real tube pedals are
    designed to be the first device in the signal chain.
    
    Mark

    Re: .3, .4
    
    In general, compressors and overdrives don't work well in FX loops. 
    
    							Brian 

    
    
    
    
    
    		Ohhhhh... so it's line level stuff like signal processors
    and stuff that the loop is intended for...  I could also take the send
    to the input of a power amp, huh???
    
    	Hey, dudes and dudettes, notice the time.. I'm a second shift dude
    now!!!  Yeeeeehaw... woikin on the night shift!!!
    
    
    regards,
    Steve

    I recently looked at a Fender Deluxe Reverb.  It appears to be
    in very good condition.  The store said it was a '67.
    
    Distiguishing characteristics:
        Silver face
        No master volume
    	Two channels
    	Reverb
    	Tremolo
        1 12" speaker
        Power amp has a pair of 6V6 and an additional larger tube that
    			looked like an EL34
    
    
    They want $300 for it.  Is this a decent deal?  (My guess is that
    its OK, but not great).
    
    Jim

Yes, it sounds like a '67. $300 isn't bad. You won't find one much 
cheaper. Even the silver face ones are somewhat in demand. They're
really no different than the black face ones. It's one amp design
Fender didn't mess with. I've seen black ones going for $450 just 'cause 
they're black. I've also heard about them going for $250 but I don't
know in what condition. It's a really nice amp. BTW, that other big
tube is a power supply rectifier.

---rjb

    
    
    	I just bought that amp for $199 BUT... It broke up so quickly.. I
    like my sound fairly clean and tight until about 7 on the volume
    control, that I took it for tubes and biasing.. so I'll have about $300
    in mine when I start using it.
    
    Regards (awesome lead tone huh??)
    Steve

    I need some help ....
    
    All these cutesy names of Fender amps confuse me.  I'm looking for an
    amp (combo) that will hold it's own in a large club.  60W minimum, 2x12
    minumum, 4x10 is fine too.  It's GOT to have tubes too.  So, given all
    that .... what Fender amps, past and present fall into that category ?
    
    Jerry (ready to sell his prized Laney to pump up the volume ...)   

    For older Fender amps:
    
    Twin Reverb
    Dual Showman
    
    For newer stuff, I only know about the Twin and the Pro185, which I
    understand is loud.
    
    Too bad you wouldn't accept 45w: those old Super Reverbs are great.
    How 'bout mic'ing the amp?

    Since you said 60 watts minumum, that cuts out most vintage
    models except:
    
    Twin Reverb  80-100 watts depending on year, 2-12" (also Twin Reverb II)
    
    Quad Reverb  100 watts, 4-12"  (this amp is HUGE)
    
    There are quite a few models in the 40-50 watt range, though.
    
    							Brian

    Wasn't there a "Super Reverb" or a "Pro Reverb" that was 60 watts into
    4x10's ?  I've played through one of those, and *loved* it.  It might
    not have been 60 watts, but it was *loud*.  If I could get a lot of
    volume from a lesser wattage, that'd be cool too.  My Laney sounds
    great, but gets lost in the real big places.
    
    Jerry (who's doing an outdoor gig Saturday in a football stadium, with
    an Ampeg SVT on the other side of the stage ... 8^o

    The Super Reverb was 40/45 watts into 4-10, the Pro Reverb the same power
    into 2-12, the Vibrolux Reverb the same power into 2-10.  The old
    Bassman combos (and the new reissue model) are similar to the Super, 50
    watts into 4-10.
    
    							Brian

    Sheesh ... those Super reverb's are LOUD !  Do they still make 'em ? 
    It'd be nice if the Bassman had reverb too ... 8^)
    
    Jerry

    Hey! wasn't there some discussion of a super re-verb reissue? Did
    Fender get around to doing this? Anyone test drive one?
    
    inquiring minds......

    Jerry, my advice to you is to make your life simple and get yourself 
    "The Twin". Unless you've NEXT UNSEEN my replies, you know that I'm 
    particulary biased towards this great amp. It's a well built amp,
    extremely versatile offering crystal clean to dirty metal crunch. 
    
    You get you "The Twin", and I'd bet its the last amp you'll ever own
    or want. Put that sumbitch on an extension cab, and you're ready for
    any stadium. 
    
    As mentioned, this is my bias. I'd love to compare it with Bucks 5150,
    any Marshall, or any other amp for that matter and be able to give
    specifics. 
    
    "sakman" 
                 

    Well, my 0.02 is that I have played The Twin, the 5150, and most
    of the newer Marshall's.  For Start style players, I would recommend
    the first two (Fender Twin and Peavey).
    
    Although, admittedly, I don't like the EQ voicings on the new Fender
    amps -- some people can get them to sound great...I can't!  I did
    like that the new all-tube Peavey's were easy to use and produced a
    great sound without tons of fiddling...
    
    
    Buck, who'll never own a Boogie for that reason!

    I think what Jerry needs here is a Super Twin.  Twice the power output
    in the same sized package.  Sounds damaging...
    
    Greg

    
    Does the more recent "the Twin" have reverb?  Jerry is a reverb nut.
    I will be too, as soon as I get a Vibroverb reissue!

    re: .20
    
    Definately.

    Yes most definitely, "The Twin" does have a great reverb. 
    
    re Buck's last: I'd agree. For Blues, Jazz, Classic Rock, you wouldn't be
    any less than overjoyed. If you play shred metal with all the harmonics,
    squeallies and such, not that "The Twin" couldn't handle it, other amps
    *may* handle it better. I don't play that stuff and as I mentioned I
    have yet to be able to do a comparison.
    
    One thing about dialing in your sound on "The Twin", I wouldn't say its
    difficult, or complicated. But I was fooled a few weeks ago when I
    modified my strat with SD 1/4 lb'ers. I thought the SD's provided a
    much wider bandwidth and therfore were less "glassy" than traditional
    Strats. Thinking that I wanted alot of midrange, at the time I had the 
    EQ set to max for the mid, and hi and lo set real low. But 
    experimentation a few days later revealed that the placing the mid in 
    the low range and boosting the lows and highs gave me the sound I was 
    looking for.
    
    "sakman"
            

    Jerry,
    
    
    Get a Twin or a "The Twin"......end of discussion.
    
    Steve
    
    (wasn't that easier than reading all these replies?) 8^)

    My first inclination is to grab a twin of some kind and call it a day. 
    But Peavey's got some offerings, along with some others.  The new
    Gibsons (yes, GIBSON) sound real nice too.  Until I sell my Laney, I'm
    just looking/listening.
    
    Blind Dog's gonna lemme borrow his twin for the stadium gig I'm doing
    Saturday, so that'll help me decide if that's what I *need*.  8^)
    
    Scare'

    Jerry, is the amp that you'll borrow a twin or the twin?
    
    "sakman"

    A late 70's twin ... a real hunny.  8^)
    
    Jerry

    Fork lift included?

    re: -1
    
    what you need on those babies, is casters with hydraulic/telescopic
    lifter shafts....push of a button, the TWIN rises up on it's caster
    shafts, and you merely roll it away!
    
    Rube Goldberg

    
    	Forget the casters.  Get trailer wheels and a tow bar!  

    Jerry, I'd be interested in knowing what you think after you borrow
    this amp. But one thing I'd like to point out if you don't already know
    is that a twin is not the same as "the twin". "The Twin" is everything
    a twin is, but with much more added by virtue of a second channel for
    distortion.
    
    "sakman"  

    Jerry, I'd be interested in knowing what you think after you borrow
    this amp. But one thing I'd like to point out if you don't already know
    is that a "the twin" is not the same as a Classic 50. The Classic 50 is 
    everything a "the twin" is, but with much more added by virtue of a 
    decent sounding distortion.
    
    "buckman"

    My distortion comes in a little green box ... besides, distortion is
    for pu**ies with weak backs.  Funny how things work out though ... just
    this week, I started hitting the iron again.  I guess I'll need it. 
    Who knows, before long I'll be able to bench press an ex-wife ... 8^)
    
    Jerry (who'd rather do flys with 2 twins)

    re: -1
    
  >>  Who knows, before long I'll be able to bench press an ex-wife ... 8^)
    
    yes, but can you bench press a Twin?
    
    Steve (who sez you couldn't bench press MY ex-wife!)

Bench pressing ex-wives ?!?!?!?
Damn dood !  You must be really hittin' the iron!
:)

RE: Moving Twins

I think I tow-dolly is in order, that way you only have to get two casters
off the ground.  :)

I did tell you the story of mother-in-law tipping over Pops black face twin
and it landing on the bridge of her foot ?  ouch.

I think I've also said this before - The Twin is a decent sounding amp for
sure!  Loud sum-bitch too!

jc (this coming from a guy who practices at 110db :)

Umm, don't mean to rat-hole here...But I've seen Scarys ex and Bulldawgs ex.
I don't think you could benchpress either...
:)

jc

    re: -1
    
    tsk, tsk   8^)

     If you're near Daddy's in Shrewsbury, stop in and try out the used
     Fender Pro Reverb. It must have been in someones basement for
     quite awhile cuz it has mildew stains and a pitted silver/blue
     faceplate. The tube chart says AA165. (January 1965..design-wise)
     Original spkrs too. Also, written above the spkr jack is "40 watts
     at 4 ohms". I test drove it and IMO, this is the best sounding Fender
     amp I've heard in a long time, and it's lighter than a Twin. I'd love
     to own it, but not for $550. 
     
     Neal     

	have you tried more speakers? 

    Neal,

    I stopped at Daddy's in Shrews the other night and while there, looked
    around for that Pro you told me about. They said it was out as a
    loanerwhile a Boogie was in the shop. They said it would be back soon
    and that they would also be getting another one in soon and that it
    would be the same price. These guys usually overprice silver models. Not
    that some silver panel models aren't just as good as the older
    blackface, just that they aren't much in demand and so don't justify the
    price tag.

    --Ron

    Lots of times you can get a *great* deal on smaller amps that are used,
    because the owners have GTS and want to upgrade.  Scam the 'for sale'
    papers.  How much are you willing to spend ?
    
    Jerry

    RE: use vs abuse
    
    The best way, if you're not sure what you're looking for, is to go to a
    shop where you trust the staff. Where are you in the UK? If you're
    within striking distance of Kingston, I'd recommend you go to ABC Music
    there. I don't know if they have a good range of stuff, but I
    personally know the manager (ask to see Graham). He's the kind of guy
    who won't rip you off - explain your situation and ask his advice. 
    
    Before making the trip, if you intend to, it would be worth phoning to
    see what they've got in your price range.
    
    FWIW
    
    Nick

    
    You'd better get more than 15w if you want to jam with friends, imo.
    My old 35w Dean Markley (I sold to Bulldawg) is inexpensive, channel
    switching, with decent reverb.  I think the model is/was a K50.  Also
    had headphone out and can be had for around $200-$225.

    Agreed ... 25W should be your minimum to start.  Look at the used
    combo's in this file ... we wouldn't rip ya off.  8^)
    
    Jerry (who's never been burned by this crowd)

    Well, I'll be the dissonant voice here.  I have a Marshall Microstack,
    which has a 12 watt amp and 2 10 inch speakers and I have used it at
    band rehearsals and jam sessions with no problem.  Was loud enough to
    fit in with drums and other players and be heard just fine.
    
    Greg

    Good point, I've done that too .....

    Re: last two
    
    The Microstack works because it has two speakers.  Double the cone
    area means double the volume, or a 3 db improvement, same as doubling
    the wattage, so it's equivalent to a 25 watter running 1-10".  It's
    also more $$, US prices are about $300 which sounds like out of this
    guy's range.  
    
    
    
    							Brian

    Does Crate export to the UK?  Those are good and cheap at the low end
    of the line.
    When I was in the UK, I saw nothing but Carlsbro amps (maybe we need a
    new note on that).  Do they make anything in the low end?
    \Gary

    	re-1
    
    I would expect Crate to export to the UK.A year or so ago,Steve Lynch
    did a demo with Crate stuff so they must be available here.
    
    
    
                                                Staynz

I used to own a Microstack and felt very limited in band practice use.
It didn't have channel switching ability nor an effects loop.  For the 
music we were trying to play at the time, these were a must.  I had to
settle for that "dry non-tube Marshall" shound.  ACK!  

Volume wise, it felt pretty stretched to it's limits(loud drummer and
bass player), but for the most parts, I was heard.

Mine was white and it looked "cute" next to my Beige Boogie halfstack.
8*)

I ended up trading it in for a channel switching practice amp.

Now, I've got 25w all tube practice combo amp w/ single 12" with dual 
channels and an effects loop w/built in reverb.  Lots more versatile 
than the M-word amp I useta own.  It's held up pretty well to loud 
band situations before, too.

I agree with Scary.  Minimum of 25w.

Jmystr

  Scary, Dawg & others ( cool namez ) ...

  Folks, I'd be rightly honoured to buy second hand from you crowd. I tell 
  you what, I'll even pay $20 over your asking .... if you pay the shipping, 
  duty & insurance ;-)  Stuff I'm interested in will be  < $250

  Nick, thanks for the pointer to ABC. I'm not actually in England at the 
  moment. I work @fyo ( just outside Geneva and over the border in France ).
  However, prices here are really steep UK * 1.3 is normal ... and you guys 
  think that it's steep there :-(  I come over maybe once every 6-8 weeks
  either to Basildon ( to check on the scumbag tennants busily wrecking my
  house ), Norwich ( to see the folks ), or London ( to see the boyz ).
  I got the Strat from Flying Pig supplies. The amp I think I'm gonna have 
  to buy here 'coz I don't think they'll like it too much on the plane ;-) 
  The only good thing is that 2nd items devalue more here than they do at 
  home. 

  Re: the Microstack; I have a modicum of electronic ability, how easy to
  solder an FX loop and a few jacks in ( if it's possible ) ?

  Yup, I've seen Crate amps advertised. Who're Carlsboro (sp ?)
  Did Dean Markely get imported to the UK ?

  DC thanks for the info on the Sunn. The 25 watter has reverb & all the
  other features. It's also twice the price ( new ), but it's looking like
  a definate contender here.

  We got a new guy here who has minor GTS. I'm gonna see if I can drag him 
  round & demo a few for me. That way I'll know what to check out even if I 
  don't buy when he's there.

  Thanks for the help & keep it coming,

			
					Nik.

    
    Further to the 'wattage' points. I have a Fender Champ 12 (12 Watts)
    and it performs admirably with full drum set, bass and 2nd electric
    guitar. I have played at private parties with no problem with regard
    volume. I usually start at 1/2 vol and work up to about 80-90% by the
    time all the people have 'soaked up the sound'. Sometimes I find it
    hard to believe its only 12 watts. A friend has a an amp (obscure
    make) which purports to deliver 30 watts and yet it just doesn't seem
    to be as loud as mine. Moral here is to not take wattage as an accurate
    indicator of apparent volume.
    
    The Fender Champ 12 is about 225 UK pounds, probably out of your price
    range from what you said.
    
    Richard
    Reading, UK

	I have a need this week to have a combo that I can lug aroung
	the Back Bay for a few days. My Fender doesn't cut it cuz it
	weighs in a 58 lbs (unh). So I spent a few days scoping out
	smaller combos. I played a number of amps. I picked up a
	Peavey Studio Pro 50. 50 WRMS into 1x12. Single channel with
	pre- and post- gain controls and a saturation control. Pull
	bright, pull thick and 3 band EQ. Cheezy spring reverb (foot-
	switchable), FX loop, 600 Ohm line out. And for my weight
	requirement it weighs about 30 lbs. It's loud and the distortion
	sounds OK. It ain't no Twin but I don't need no forklift, either.

	Price: $125. I'm happy. It's a Peavey so I'm gonna strap it
	to a luggage stroller and bounce it up and down curbs and
	stairs without any worry.

	There were a lot of other interesting amps available used in
	the few stores I looked at.

	Most interesting was the Peavey Express 112 which was going for
	$229.- new. Solid state, 2 channels, independent EQ on
	each channel, flexible distortion tones, decent reverb, 1x12,
	FX loop - on the front, 65 WRMS, footswitch jack, line out.

	Add $70 and go up to the Bandit 112 at 80 WRMS with a beefier 
	speaker, aux speaker out and they throw in the $17.- footswitch.
	Of course used Bandits & Special 130s are a great deal in the
	used market here.

New Tweed fender Amps

Blues Deville

	Combo  4x10 special design speakers
	3x12AX7, 2x5881
	60 Watts
	drive channel with independent gain & master
	Bright switch
	reverb with full size pan
	effects loop
	external speaker jack
	2 button footswitch for drive select and reverb on/off
	$869.99 retail

Blues Deluxe

	Combo 1x12 special design speaker
	2x5881, 3-12AX7
	40 Watts
	drive channel with independent gain & master
        Bright switch
        reverb with full size pan
        effects loop
        external speaker jack
	1 button footswithc for drive select
	$569.99

Pro Junior
	Combo 1x10 special design speaker
	15 Watts
	2xEL84, 2x12AX7
	Unique clean to drive volume control
	$309.99

Bronco
	Combo 1x8 special design speaker
	15 Watts
	Tube emulation power amp
	Dual selectable channels, normal and drive
	"Dangerous" new distorion circuit
	External speaker jack
	Headphone jack
	$169.99

    Wurly's in Framingham has a new Deluxe Reverb in creme tolex with wheat
    grill cloth. Yum. And it sounded as cool as it looked, at least with the
    guy with the jazz chops playing an Ibanez Artist through it. A pleasant
    change from the stuff I'm normally am treated to in there.

    RE: -.1
    Where is Wurly's in Framingham???
    How much was it?
    
    		Thanks in advance,
    				  Curious Fred

    Wurly's is on Rt. 9 west-bound side, near (just west of) Shopper's
    World.

    I don't know the price. I was too intimidated by it's awsomely cool look
    to speak. If it had a brown panel and knobs I would have handcuffed
    myself to it fer sure.

    --Ron

    I saw one of these babies at the local ax shop. Tres cool! I'm
    told it's not yet on the fender price list. They were moving these for
    about $60 over the price of the equivalent black tolex Deluxe Reverb.
    

    Speaking of which...
    
    the latest Vintage Guitar has an ad from someone doing cosmetic
    amp restorations.  His specialty is taking your silver-face Fender
    and redoing it with brown panel, white knobs and tolex, oxblood grill
    (or for that matter, any combination of vintage comsetics you can think
    of).  The ad showed a Super done up this way; looked great.  I can dig
    up the address is anyone's interested.
    
    /rick

Bought a new amp this week! Got the "Blues DeVille" at Daddy's in Nashua.
(thanks to Fred Abatelli. for the pointer)

It's the 60 watt 4x10. Thing sounds just great. I play a Strat though it,
and it really brings out the sound of the Strat. It got an incredibly big,
full sound. Amazing full bass sound, amazing clean sounds. Lead channel has a 
nice "edge" without any real distortion. 

I had a few minor problems, some due to my ignorance, 1 possible real problem.

When I first tried the amp at home it was very noisy. I don't know if it
was dimmer switches in my house or the single coils, but I moved it to a 
different location and it was very quiet. Was silent with nothing plugged in.

When I switched to the lead channel it was repeating the note or chord if I 
was playing. Talked to our local experts Neal Orsi and Rick Calcagni 
(thanks Neal and Rick!) and Neal said it might be the reverb. Sure enough I 
had the reverb on 8! Love that reverb! Turned the reverb off and the "problem" 
was gone.

Still have a possible problem with something rattling or buzzing when I play 
an A with the volume up. Doesn't seem to be consistent though. Doesn't happen 
at low volume and when the volume is WAY up everything in the house vibrates. 
I was playing at medium volume last night and didn't hear anything at all. ??

I couldn't find anything loose, tubes seem to be seated ok. Hope it's not a 
speaker problem. I'll have to take it back if it persists.

Bob

    Yeah, these are great amps.  The DeVille also comes in 2x12
    configuration; the speakers have huge magnets and it weighs noticably
    more than the 4x10 version, approaching Twinsville.  Both versions crank.
    
    /rick

    Oh yea, I forgot the most important Fender feature of all.....how
    much it weighs!
    
    It's 50 lbs. Not too bad.
                             

    50lbs?  that's 10 more than the Peavey

>>    50lbs?  that's 10 more than the Peavey

	But at least 200 less than a twin...

    I had checked one of these out a few months ago and one of the amps to
    which I compared it was the Peavey Classic 50. I thought it ate the PV
    alive and spit out the pieces :-) Not as great as a Vibro-King, but
    pretty worthy.

    
    
       What happened to the Super 60 model?  Is it replaced by just
    another name, or has it been dropped entirely?
    
       Rick. 
    

i'm looking for some advice. hope someone can help.

i have a fender studio lead. the bass pot on the clean channel has a sheared 
spindle.

the question is, should i try to get a fender original part or can i use non
brand name pot of the same value.

how critical is this (i know zip about electronics 8^(..

thanks,

jim, 

    You can use any pot of the same value, however, you should buy a decent
    quality pot. I would specifically suggest you *do not* go to your local
    Radio Shack to find the part. A "sealed" pot is the best; it keeps dirt
    from getting between the wiper element and the fixed carbon resitor.
    
    Also, you should be aware that pots have a characteristic called
    "taper" which is important. The two types of taper are "audio"
    (logarithmic) and "linear". For most applications, you want a linear
    taper. However, I do not know exactly what you have on your amp.
    
    And, I really have to add: why, if you admit that you don't reallly
    know how to fix it, are you trying to fix it? Any good repair shop
    should be able to replace a pot for under $20 and not bugger it up.
    What if, for instance, this particular amp has the pot soldered
    directly to the PC board (which is getting common). Do you have a
    desoldering station to insure you won't melt the traces on the PC
    board? Do you have a low temperature soldering iron?
    
    Brian

    RE: 70
    
    When I went to Daddy's I tried the Peavey first. I had tried one at
    Acton music and really liked it. But I didn't have anything to compare
    to. There I could play them side by side.
     
    When I plugged in to the Fender I knew right away, that's what I
    wanted. Was the same price too.
    
    BTW...I brought the amp back today. There was a bad preamp tube; source
    of the noise I was hearing. Put a new tube in and cleared it right up.
    
    Also, BTW...this amp comes with a 6 year warranty! 3 years from Fender,
    3 years from Daddy's. That was a pleasant surprise.
    
    Bob-who-is-now-a-happy-camper

    You take your guitar and amp camping?

    And with the optional belt attachment, you can use it on your mountain
    bike. Of course, you must also wear one on the other side for proper
    balance. It's a bit tough on the uphill slopes but man, downhill is a
    real hoot.

    Anyone have any info on a Fender super. i was browseing Daddy's www
    site and noticed a few of these for sale for small $. As far as I know
    a Super is all tube, 4x10, reverb and aprox 60-65w. THe ones listed at
    Daddy's have 2x10's or 1x12. Same amp?
    
    -kev

    I believe the first Super-Reverbs were 2x12 and had brown cabinets.
    You wont find one of these under $1000. 
    
    There may have been a 1x12 Super in the early 80's, but I've never
    seen or heard of one. Then again, knowing Fender there is probably
    a few solid state super-mumbles out there. 
    
    Other than the rare brown Super (2x12) most "real" Super Reverbs are
    4x10. Black-face models in good shape will fetch close to a $1K.
    Silver face models sell around $500 to $650. These are great amps
    for playing blues. There is no channel switching or gain on these
    amps at all, and they do not have the dreaded master-volume either.
    
    Last year Fender released the long-awaited Super Reverb that many
    people thought would be a re-issue but it is not. It is a souped-up
    modern amp with gain and channel switching that just happens to bear
    the name Super Reverb. This was a dissipointment for many people
    including myself. IMHO they have enough modern amps, and they
    should have re-issued the Super to complete the series. There is
    a huge demand for supers and a re-issue would have sold well. 
    
    Mark

    Actually, Fender Super history goes back even further.  The first
    Supers came out in the early 50's; these are 2x10" tweed combos.
    Fender continued to offer the tweed Super throughout the 50's,
    modifying the preamp circuits several times along the way.  The
    last version, app 1957-1959 is a real screamer of an amp.  In the
    early 60's, the Super changed to brown tolex, still a 2x10" combo.
    In 1963, it metamorphasized into the blackface 4x10 Super Reverb we
    all know and love.  Interestingly enough, this was actually considered
    a sort of 4x10 Bassman re-issue by Fender and marketed as such.
    The black front panel changed to silver around 1968, and the 4x10 Super
    Reverb continued to be manufactured throughout the 70's.
    
    In the 80's, Fender came out with a 1x12 combo called the Super 60; a
    very different beast from the classic 4x10 Super.  I'd guess that's
    what the 1x12's in the Daddy's list are.  I think there's a note on
    the Super 60 in here somewhere.
    
    /rick
    

    While I also believe a "real" Super Reverb issue would be a great
    addition to the Fender line, I would guess that Fender is reluctant to
    add one, since many of the sales of a reissue Super would come at the
    expense of sales of the reissue '59 Bassman and the reissue Vibraverb.  
    
    
    Re: Super 60
    There was a successor of sorts to the Super 60 called the Super 112. 
    Both were tube-based 60 watt amps with a single 12" speaker.  The 112
    had a larger cabinet.
    
    
    Jim

    After reading some really good reviews on this Super 60, I'm interested
    in how Daddy's mail order works. Any one ever order from them? Are they
    pretty solid characters down there? How about their return policy: If I
    hate the amp, Can I return it? It's kind of hard to test drive an amp
    over the phone or thru the mail. I've never even seen one of these
    around here but it sounds like what i've been looking for. Any input
    would be greatly appreciated.
    
    -kev

    Super 60 owners had one common complaint about the amp. There was a
    big differance in volume between the lead channel and the rhythm
    channel. People had problems balancing out the volume between the
    2 channels. There's some verbage in this notes file somewhere.
    
    If I remember correctly, there was 3 differant versions of the
    Super 60. There was a 1x12 Combo, a stack, and a rack version 
    of the head. There are probably lot's of these in the used market.
    
    Mark

    I didn't know they had mail order.
    
    Be sure you get a clear story on the return policy before you buy 
    from Daddy's.   I once bought a Strat from them and I had to
    negotiate to get any return period.  They reluctantly agreed to
    a seven day return period.  (this was a the Nashua location)
    
    

    I was browsing at the local music store this week and happened upon the 
    History of Fender Amp book. ($50) I was checking out the Deluxe Reverb 
    specs and in a side column they showed a Deluxe Reverb II. This amp is
    cool! Apearently modified in the '82-'86 time period by Paul Riviera
    and Ed Vance ( I think it was Ed Vance). Anyways, The amp is now
    disco'd and I was wondering how rare this unit is. Has anyone come
    across one of these before? Or, know where i could find one? I placed a
    "Wanted" in here earlier today. Any info much appreciated.
    
    -k

    These seem to be pretty rare.  I once saw a Princeton Reverb II.  Once.
    Never seen the Deluxe II.  The most common from these era are the Super
    Champs, which pop up occasionally.  Good luck.
    
    /rick
    

    How is a DR II different from the original?  What makes it so much
    better?
    
    	R

    
    re: deluxe II
    
    I wouldn't set my expectations too high....
    
    I once owned a Fender Concert (60W tube amp) from the same era,
    also designed by Paul Riviera....
    
    It was not a terribly impressive amp....  adequate but not outstanding
    in any way.
    
    /Steve
    

    The DR II has an fx loop, seperate gain channel, modified tremolo cct,
    and a master vol ( if i remember correctly). Sounds like a great little 
    amp to me. Once again, i'd have to hear it, and I am "still" shopping!

    I once played with a Princeton II.  It was OK, but I think Super Champs
    are better.  If I rememember right, to get the extra gain channel, you
    had to give up reverb.  There was something odd like that.  Don't know 
    if the Deluxe II would have the same feature/problem.  Anyway, the 
    Princeton II was somewhat interesting, but nothing I'd buy for myself.
    
    For my taste, you can't beat a good ol' Deluxe Reverb for tone.   

    re: .88 
    
    OK, so an effects loop might be nice...
    
    Master volume in an amp that has great power tube distortion as its
    primary claim to fame seems of questionable value (but that borders on
    a religious issue).
    
    Jim 

    Paul Rivera made his name hot-rodding Deluxe Reverbs in the 70's (Larry
    Carlton used these in the studio a lot) so it's tempting to think that
    the DRII might be a re-creation of one of these.  I'd like to check one
    out myself.
    
    /rick
    

    why not try a RIVERA amp, they make a 30w and 50w 1/12 that sound
    real good.  
    
    later,
    rj/

    I'm using my DR for rhythm work in a country band.  Unfortunately,
    due to timing considerations and little ones at home, I've not been
    able to really mess around with various settings to find out what this
    amp can really do.  The only time I can turn up at all is during
    practice and during that time I can't afford to me noodling with the
    amp at the expense of the new tunes we're working.  So...
    
    Can anyone who knows offer up some examples of the kinds of sounds I
    might be able to draw from this amp (perhaps in terms of classic
    tunes that used those sounds)?  I'm looking for a 10,000 ft view
    of the sonic landscape so I can sort of explore with a plan.
    I'm playing a Peavey Predator (strat-copy - no laughing!!)  with
    a SCs at neck and mid and a dual-SC switchable between single, double,
    and humbucker.
    
    I've already had a 3-wire plug installed, reverb added to the first
    channel, and it currently has a Mender I box installed (chains the
    Normal and Reverb preamp stages into a single 4-stage pre-amp - boo-coo
    gain and sustain, but hard to tame for country - it may come out soon).
    
    	Rick
    
    

    Rick, those amp mods sound awesome. I'd love to hear that thing!
    
    Re -.02 
    
    Riviera amps run in the same price range as a new car. If I had that
    kind of coin, I don't think I'd still be shopping for anything.
    All that aside, what are they like anyways?
    
    -kev

    Former Deccie/Guitar noter David Bottom (aka dbII) owns a Rivera Stack.
    I believe he traded his first-born for it. Seriously, I believe he
    paid about $2000 for it. After a while he stopped using it mainly
    because it was very heavy and apparently he preferred the tone from
    his other rig which included a Kitty Hawk preamp. I think he bought
    Jeff Cooper's Mesa Boogie triax preamp. 
    
    Dave had the Rivera for sale for a long while and had no takers. 
    There is a note in here somewhere. 
    
    Mark
    

    I think he sold the Rivera, but I might be wrong...  He does
    have the Tri-Axis tho....
    
    I saw a rivera head hear in town for like $300, FWIW.

    this is what Dave said about it 27-april-95'...
    
   > "Yes I still have the amp. I have an original Rivera TBR-1M,rack mount
   > 60W per
   > channel amp. I use it at home mostly but due to the weight and my
   > tri-axis I
   > don't carry it much. The new ones are very nice. I liek the combo that
   > has
   > three settings, clean crunchy and lead. They are also darn expensive.
    
   > Good luck amp hunting!
    
   > dbii"
    
    
    I have a 100w 2/12 Rivera.  My brother heard it and had to buy one.
    He said it was the best amp he had ever heard, and he's been playing
    for about 35 years now. 
    
    If I found a 'rivera head for like $300' I'd grab it.  Of course I'd
    need $300 first.
    
    later,
    rj
    

    I was reading Fronline this weekend (Fender's catolog) and saw a
    Concert amp. A friend of mine has a Super and it's supposedly awesome.
    The Concert is the same amp w/1x12. Also, a coice of a celestion G12-80
    to boot. Anyone own one of these. Just looking for a price and how that
    1x12 sounds. I also heard that Fender disco'd the Super. Can anyone
    confirm this?
    
    -kev

    I don't know if he still notes here, but Paul Cummings switched from a
    Super 60 to one of these a couple of years ago.  As a bandmate I can
    tell you it sounded to *me* like a noticable improvement.
    
    /rick
    

    I just called my local fender  dealer and was told that the Super and
    Concert are disco'd. Just my luck. Finally find my dream amp and I
    can't buy it any more. Daddy's has a "Concert 112" . I'm wondering if
    this is a different animal than the Concert. Anyone ever hear of a
    Concert 112?
    
    -kev 

    The Concert 112 was just a concert with one 12" speaker.
    They also made a Concert 410 (4x10" speakers), and a Concert
    head, which I used to own.  These amps were all early 1980's
    vintage and are no longer produced.  As I mentioned in an
    earlier reply, they were designed by Paul Rivera and were
    not particularly outstanding amps.
    
    There was also a pre-cbs Concert, circa early 1960's which was
    a 4x10, 40 watt, brown tolex amp. It was kind of like a pre-
    cbs super reverb without the reverb.
    
    /Steve

    If the Concert was recently discontinued, that may be good news.  There
    are probably still unsold amps in some dealer's inventory that they 
    would now be willing to blow out.  Try some of the big mail order
    houses and see what you can find.
    
    /rick
    

    
    The Concerts were discontinued by the mid-1980's, before the 
    Super 60 was introduced. However, it isn't difficult to find
    used Concerts in decent shape, and the prices I've seen have
    generally been very reasonable as far as 60 watt tube amps go.
    
    I'd recommend playing through one before making the decision
    to buy, to be certain that it can get the sound you're after.
    
    /Steve 
    

    Steve, I think the Concert you and I are thinking of are two completely
    different amps. The one I am talking about has only been around a few 
    years ,I'm sure. I caught a shot of it in the Fender Frontline magazine
    recently and was blown away by its features. As I said in an earlier
    note, a buddy of mine has a Super. Same as the Concert w/4x10's. Fender
    promotes these amps as being amps that have a mix of the old and the
    new. The 'old' tube circuttry/reverb/cosmetics/ with the 'new' dual 
    selectable gain features, chnnl switching and so forth. I really think 
    this would be a great amp. I can remember being blown away with my 
    friend Super, but at the time, thought it was a Super Reverb" from the 
    70's. I guess I'll have to check some mail order stores as suggested.
    
    -kev 

    re: -1
    
    I'm not familiar with Fender's recent offerings, but the Concerts of
    early 1980's vintage were dual channel switching (clean and lead) all
    tube amps that featured gain, master volume, reverb and eq on both
    channels.  Cosmetically, they looked like early black-face fenders,
    but the circuitry was different.  They were not bad amps, but they
    did not sound anything like their black-face predecessors.
    
    /Steve

    Must be the same amp. Fwiw, I finally found and bought a Deluxe Reverb.
    Just scanning thru the classifieds I caught an ad for "equiptment for
    sale", phoned the number and 2hrs later I owned it. I can't believe how
    much it breaks up and how versitile it is. All the tones I want from my
    guitar I can fially do it without effects. That's what I was looking
    for and I'm quite happy with it. Not to mention that except for a small
    tear in the grille cloth, It's damn near mint. I paid $500 Can. for it.
    I would consider that quite fair in regards to it's market value.
    Consdering that Steve's wants $900+ for a blackface re-issue, I have no
    complaints.
    
    Finally....
    
    -kev

    $500 Canadian probably is a pretty good deal.  At the Michigan Vintage
    Guitar Show last weekend, I spotted a few different silverfaced Deluxe
    Reverbs, and the going rate was about $450 U.S.   A dead mint
    blackfaced Deluxe Reverb was priced at $1200.  
    
    Congrats...

    Now, how can I date this thing. The serial no. starts with A73.....but I
    guess this is not how we do it. Do I really have to pull this thing
    apart?
    
    -kev [$1200 for a BF DR, that's crazy money!]
    
    

    I don't think the serial # is much help on Fender amp dating.
    
    Physical features can help.  You didn't say, but I assume it's a
    silver-face?  That means 1968 or later.  Is there a metal frame around
    the front grill?  If so, that nails it at 1968-1969.
    
    Probably the best way to accurately date amps (and lots of other gear
    as well) is to pull out the chassis and get some date codes off the
    potentiometers.  There are usually a couple of numbers stamped into the
    pots, the one you want is a six or seven digit number.  The three leftmost
    digits are the mfgs code; "137" and "134" are the most common.  If seven
    digits, the next two are the year code; e.g., "70" = 1970.  If six digits,
    only the next one is the year; in this case, you have to infer the rest of
    the year from context.  E.g., "4" on a silver-face means 1974, since they
    didn't make silver face Deluxes in '64 or '84.  Fwiw, that last two digits
    are the week.
    
    Examples:
    		1376940 = 40th week of 1969
    		 134602 = 2nd week of 1966 if a blackface
    			- 2nd week of 1976 if a silver
    
    These codes tell you when the potentiometer was built; you can usually
    infer that the pots were manufactured a few months before the amp was
    built.
    
    /rick
    

    thanks rick. I also did a little hunting in here after a entered that
    last note. In 416.12, stamped date codes are mentioned to define the
    year/month. I'd be curious to know if you've heard of this method.
    
    -kev

    One more question. Is armor-all ok to use on my amps covering?
    
    -k

   re: .111

   Yes!  Now go use your new amp!  :-)

   -- Sam

    What are you tryin' to say sam?

    re .110
    
    yes, the two letter code system described 416.12 definitely works for
    pre-CBS stuff; tweeds, browns, blackfaces, etc.  I'm not sure how far
    into the silver-face era they continued this though.  As a practical
    limit, "Z" would equal 1976 and I think they stopped using that code
    much earlier than that.  But yeah, if you have this code on the tube 
    chart it will date the amp for you.
    
    /rick
    

   Kev, nah, that's what all the ":-)"s were for.  See personal name.  :-)

   -- Sam (who is, finally and thankfully, happy with his amp setup after about
   10 years of experimentation)

    What are you running? 
    
    Inquiring minds want to know.....
    
    -kev

    Just saw some advance info on the revamped "Pro Tweed" line.  Fender
    has taken the Blues Deluxe and Blues Devilles, outfitted them with black
    Tolex and black/silver grillcloth (sort of a blackface tweed, they look
    pretty nice) and added a third, high gain channel.  The new series is
    called the "Hotrod" line.
    
    From what I can tell, two of the channels are identical to the pro
    Tweed versions.  Rumor is that Ritchie Fliegler, previously of Marshall,
    was involved in the development of the high gain channel.
    
    /rick
    

    Just saw a couple of the new "Custom" Vibrolux Reverbs.  These seem to be
    a fairly authentic re-issue of a blackface Vibrolux Reverb; 2x10s, tilt
    legs, etc.  One cool cosmetic is the knobs; they're those funky little
    white jobs that you see on blonde Fenders and very early transition
    blackfaces.  The look is terrific and they sound great too.  More power
    and volume than a Deluxe but still light and portable, sparkling clean
    tone, bluesey overdrive, and all that classic reverb and trem.  A
    really nice package.
    
    /rick