[Search for users] [Overall Top Noters] [List of all Conferences] [Download this site]

Conference napalm::guitar

Title:GUITARnotes - Where Every Note has Emotion
Notice:Discussion of the finer stringed instruments
Moderator:KDX200::COOPER
Created:Thu Aug 14 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:3280
Total number of notes:61432

616.0. "Two outlets for equipment !!" by --UnknownUser-- () Mon May 02 1988 14:57

T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
616.1Noise is everywhere !!PLDVAX::JACQUESMon May 02 1988 16:5561
    
    A low frequency hum is probably 60 cycle hum from the AC. If the
    place had any dimmers on their lights, that alone would explain
    it. Flourescents lights also transmit lots of 60 cycle hum, which
    is tough to eliminate. You can experience this problem regardless 
    of how many outlets are provided. It is understandable when you
    go into an old hall. Years ago, the most a band needed was a place
    to plug in the accordian, and maybe one amp. Any new hall should
    have plenty of power on stage, however, bear in mind that these
    buildings are built by contractors who could care less about 
    any special requirements. They put one duplex outlet every so many
    feet, period. If the hall doesn't make it a point to have extra
    power put in, you get what you get.
    
    	 My cousin uses some large spot lights in his stage act. One 
    place he played in had such a poor power setup, that the stage outlets
    were on the same circuit as some of the kitchen outlets. At one point 
    the lights dimmed down, then came back blairing for a second, and he 
    blew out 3 bulbs in one shot. The bulbs cost around $15-$20/each, so 
    this set him back quite a few bucks. It turned out they had a 
    refrigerator plugged into the same circuit in the kitchen. When the 
    frig turned on, the lights dimmed, and then when it kicked off, the 
    surge caused the bulbs to burn out. At my suggestion, he purchased a 
    line conditioning transforer (also makes a good space heater/boat
    anchor). He found that not only did this fix the problem of lights 
    dimming, but he noticed right away, that the lights seemed brighter 
    than ever, and stayed at one intensity all night. Think of a
    transformer as a tank. If you pump water into a tank, and then pump
    it out the bottom, the tank will eliminate any dips or surges in water
    pressure.
    
    As for 60 cycle hum, it is very tough to eliminate. Flourescent
    light don't send 60 cycle hum back through the ac lines, they transmit
    it like radio signals. The cords you use to connect guitars, effects,
    etc. all act as antennas. The 60 cycle hum gets picked up by these
    antennas and are send right into the input preamp of your amplifier.
    The power supply in your amp works hard to filter out 60 cycle,
    as well as any ripple, however, when you inject noise right into
    a preamp input, it is gonna get amplified, period. A noise gate
    placed right before your amp input is the only way of eliminating
    this annoying problem. 
    
    Lately, I have seen a lot of line conditioning power supplies (rack
    mountable type) in many music stores. They are great for protecting
    equipment from line surges, However, if you want to eliminate 60hz
    hum, you need a noise gate. Most noise gates have a threshold, and
    effect your sound because they are constantly kicking on and off
    depending on the level going into them. This creates an annoying
    (breathing) effect which many people dislike. Some of the better
    noise gates have a very minimal breathing effect. Look around.
    Noise gates are a very good investment for a musician who finds
    himself in a lot of older halls, or places where noise is a big
    problem.                            
    
    	I won't get into single coil pickup vs humbuckers, even though
    it makes a big difference in noise immunity, because I know that 
    both of your guitars are equipped with humbuckers.
    
    	Good Luck !
    
    	Mark 
616.2chasing ghostsCNTROL::GEORGEMon May 02 1988 21:3330
Other hum reduction tricks:

All cables are somewhat sensitive to 60 Hz hum, but better cables
(more shielding/foil shields) are less so.

Try changing the routing.  It's bad to run parallel to an AC cord,
better to run perpendicular.  Experiment, sometimes moving the cables
a few feet to the left can help.  Othertimes, move three feet to the
right and sling it over the water-cooler.

Don't rip out that annoying little ground pin in your three-prong plugs.
Get an 3 to 2 prong adaptor (with the little wire for ground) and tie the
wire to the screw on the outlet.

Get plug strips with line filters ($7.98 at Spags).

Make a ~4" coil of two or three turns in the cable at the input (for a
guitar cord - at the amp, for a speaker cord - at the speaker, for an
AC cord - where it enters the equipment).  This can help reduce common-
mode noise.  I have to do this to the cable on the reverb pedal on my
Ampeg cause the cord picks up some radio station.

Disconnect everything except the mixer and amp.  Try reversing the
polarity of the mixer two-prong plug.  Is there more hum? Change it
back.  Less or the same?  Go on.  Hook up the next item (the DDL, say)
and find the 'correct' polarity for it.  Repeat until all the stuff is
in.  This will help find the source of the hum, and may reduce it.

Enjoy,
Dave
616.3Exorcise that hum!!TYFYS::MOLLERVegetation: A way of lifeTue May 03 1988 18:4859
    Finding any outlets is usually a chore, as we often play outdoors,
    or in someones home. There are a number of cures, some mentioned,
    others are:
    
    	1) Carry long extension cords (I have 2 50 footers, and have
    	   changed the 6 foot power cord on my Twin Reverb with a
    	   16 gauge, 25 foot cable).
    
    	2) Put transient filters on all of your lines (they are cheap
    	   & available from radio shack).
    
    	3) Find out what else is on your line. Recently when everything
    	   was sounding like absolute cr*p, We found that the line
    	   voltage was nowhere near 120 volts (the Mechanical HAMMOND
 	   was the clue, it wasn't even close to being in tune). Always
    	   try to find open power lines.
    
    	4) Don't use dimmers if you can avoid it. In my lighting system,
    	   I use 12 amp/400volt stud mounted diodes (cut the voltage
    	   in half when you select the DIM position). This takes care
    	   of transients, and doesn't screw up the AC lines going into
    	   your equipment.
    
    	5) Sheild everything. Don't use plastic covers on the 1/4" phone
    	   jacks that you use (the metal ones can take being stepped
    	   on - saves you money in the long run). My guitars have thier
    	   insides sheilded thru either copper tubing, or copper plates
    	   fitted into the cavities (I make my own guitars).
    
    	6) Carry a VOM (Volt Ohm Meter) around with you & if you get
    	   your lips char-broiled, find out which amp is doing it.
    	
    	7) Avoid ground loops. My power distribution box (for my effects
    	   boxes) has a switch selectable ground for each effect. Since
    	   my cables always provide signal ground, there is no need
    	   to have the power supply add additional connections:
    
    
    		+----------+
    		| 9.5 Volt |----------+-----+-----+-----+---  + 9V
    		| 1 Amp DC |          /     /     /     /
    		| Wall Bug |---+      \10   \10   \10   \10 ohm 1/2 Watt
    	 	+----------+   |      /     /     /     /   Resistors
                               |      |     |     |     |
                               |   +--+  +--+  +--+  +--+
    The O is the + 9 V out     |   |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
    			       |  +|  O +|  O +|  O +|  O
                               |   =10   =10   =10   =10 uf 35v caps
    			       |   |     |     |     |
    			       +---+-----+-----+-----+------ - (ground)
                                                                    
                               Put in an on/off switch to connect the
    			       ground to each connector.
    
    	Radio Shack has had the high power wall bug for $4.95 for some
    	time now & it has plenty of power for my stomp boxes (I have
    	8 9 Volt outputs on mine, as well as an LED POWER indicator)
                          
    							Jens
616.52c ~= 1.5cMORRIS::JACQUESTue May 03 1988 19:3323
    I doubt if two speaker cabs would interact with each other, especially
    if they are producing sounds in different frequency ranges (ie one
    bass, the other guitar). I have never heard of two cabinets cancelling
    each other frequencies out.
                           
    	As far as electro-magnetic interference, again I doubt if it
    could be a problem. Some companies make what they call Video Speakers
    for home use. I asked someone once what was the difference between
    video speakers and regular stereo speakers. The explanation I got
    was that if you plan to place a speaker on either side of you TV
    set, the high voltage operation of the TV could effect the speaker,
    therefore, video speakers (suppossedly) have highly shielded cabinets
    to block the effects of the high voltage. Who knows how valid this
    theory is. Could be just another marketing ploy. I can't see how
    two speakers could interact with each other and produce a low freq
    noise problem.          
    
    	Again, just my 2c worth, and I don't know if it is even worth
    2c since the devaluation of the dollar.
    
    	Mark J.
                   
    
616.6.5cJAWS::COTEIs the last peeping frog embarrassed?Tue May 03 1988 19:537
    I've also heard of special speakers to be used in video applications
    but thought the special shielding was intended to protect the *TV*
    from interference caused by the speaker magnets.
    
    Can someone give the definitive answer?
    
    Edd
616.7Yes, No ,Maybe So....AQUA::ROSTThat's right, SamTue May 03 1988 20:1617
    
    Re: .6
    
    The speakers for TV use are to prevent the magnets from causing
    deflections of the electron beam in the picture tube.  Put a small
    magnet near a TV screen or a CRT and watch the picture "bend" in the
    area around the magnet....better yet, try that with a JBL woofer with a
    20 lb. magnet  8^)  8^)  8^) 
    
    Re: distortion
    
    If the line voltage is low enough, you can indeed get audio distortion
    because the amplifier's power supply will not be putting out quite
    enough voltage and the preamp and power amp will both clip sooner
    than normal.