Conference napalm::guitar

    No teachers anywhere near you??  Where are you located?
    
    First off, as a proponent of good rhythm playing, I applaud your
    interest in learning.  No way for me to know anything about your
    personal abilities, so I can't answer that.  But realizing something's
    missing and having the interest to *try* is the first step toward
    improvement. 
    
    So with that in mind, I suggest you find people to play with.  No
    great revelation here--this has been suggested in other notes--but
    that's really the best way to develop a sense of rhythm, providing
    you can find someone who's competent enough to keep a steady beat
    and, preferably, who can give some pointers in that area.
    
    If you have a good ear for picking up the chord changes, playing
    along with records/tapes is great for rhythm.  Especially if you
    can focus your ear on what each rhythm player is doing.  Listen
    to all of them, but especially pay close attention to the bass.
    The bass is your best clue to the changes and, depending on the
    player and style of music, can teach you a lot about various rhythm
    techniques.  A good rhythm-guitar player should (in my humble opinion)
    complement the bass, and that can be done using full chords, triads,
    single-note figures, or whatever else your creativity comes up with.

    Start with something simple at a moderate tempo and *count* the beats as
    you play.  Use your foot to keep the basic downbeat and try strumming
    in various patterns  (e.g., down-up-down or something simpler like
    just the down or the upbeat).  
    
    Basic blues may be a good style for starters.  There's a lot to
    choose from for material. 
    
    Gotta run now, but more details later.  Primarily, look for someone
    to play with.  Whereabouts are you located?
    
    steve

    I would say to stop reading books and start playing. Practice and
    lots of practice is the name of this game.
    
    Yes, it is true that some people have a natural ability for music,
    but anyone can learn to play an instrument and have fun with music.

    I can't agree more with .2 - If the books are bumming you out, DROP
    THE BOOKS!  Assuming you know at least one tune, practice it until
    it makes you sick, and concentrate on FEELING the rhythm rather
    than having to think about it.  It will certainly help if you practice
    a song you really like, one with a strong, obvious beat... 
    For example, if you're just strumming, try "Give a little bit" or
    "Wild thing".  Use your hand to strum just like you use your foot
    to tap (If you can't tap your foot correctly, you'd better reconsider!)
    
    Some students of mine have had rhythm problems, most were related
    to the fact that they couldn't coordinate up/down strokes without
    losing the beat because their hand was in the wrong position.  What
    they didn't realize was that if, for example, you had two contiguous
    upstrokes, you don't have to stop, think, move, get ready, strum...
    skipping a beat (in this case the downstroke) is simply a matter
    of lifting the pick at the appropriate time, while keeping constant
    time with the forearm.  It almost always works, and they were surprised
    at how easy it really was.  I don't know if this is your problem
    or not, but I know it is a common one... good luck & don't be afraid
    to ask questions.  In case you hadn't noticed, this file is for
    the SUPPORT of guitarists, regardless of the amount of talent and/or
    training.  We don't like to see people get discouraged.
    
    Jon

    
    	RE: .1
    	I live in Gardner, Ma.  There is a music store that does have
    	a guy in for lessons, but not at the times I can make it. I've
    	tried the suggestion of playing along with records and I admit
    	my ear can't really tell which key (chord) is being played.
    	I do have an interest in the Blues, mainly cause alot of it
    	is slower and easier to hear what the guitar is doing. One
    	thing I have noticed, my ear can't tell half the time what the
    	player is doing. Even when I can clearly hear it, I can't tell
    	if I'm in key or not. If the note being played and the note
    	I try don't happen at the same instant, I can't tell if they
    	are even close, again my poor ear!! What the ear does hear the
    	hand so far can't reproduce..... Frustrating as all h#*l to
    	say the least. Maybe I'll try an ad in the local newspaper
    	to find an instructor. Now, if I do find a person, how do I
    	tell if they know how to teach? I'd guess this is pretty much
    	the same as anything else, just because you can do it, doesn't
    	automatically mean you can instruct someone else. I'd hate to
    	pay for lessons that won't help.
    
    	A good example of how confused I get is with strum patterns.
    	A few of the books I have suggest a 4/4 pattern such as
    	V - V - ^ - V  (V=down stroke, ^=up stroke) to some of the
    	basic folk songs. Here is where I loose it, IT ALL SOUNDS THE
    	SAME regardless. If I try to change the strum pattern, it still
    	sounds the same to my ear. In any case really bad!! 
    
    	Thanks for the input, I guess the only answer is to find an
    	instructor as it doesn't seem natural to me. I'm not about to
    	quit after this much work at it. BTW, I have managed to learn
    	a few songs, but can't relate them to others. Songs like House
    	of the rising sun, wonderful tonight (E. Clapton). I can do
    	these songs so maybe there is some hope..
    
    	Thanks again,
    	G.

    
    does V-v-^-V-v-^-V-v-^-V make any more sense?
         1     2     3     4
    
    Do you do any picking, or just strumming?
    Sounds like you've got the drive to do something once you get over
    this stumbling block... mebbe some kind soul sould be able to help
    you out for free, as it doesn't sound like a tough problem to
    overcome... I live in Worcester.
    
    Jon

    	
    	I am from Gardner and know some guitar teachers. Try Mark Connors,
    	he is a Berklee grad, and a good teacher. I played in a band
    	with him for a few years and learned a hell of alot by just
    	by playing in a band with him. 
    
    	If you have any problems finding teachers in that area I'll
    	glad to help you find one.
    
    			Dennis
    	

    
    Just to add to what everybody else has been saying, don't get too
    excited about not being able to wail. Relax, drop the books for
    a while and relax.  One reason I play guitar is that it helps me
    relax after a long day. I strap it on and lose myself in it for
    a while. 
    
    For tips: Try neglecting your left hand for a while and concentrate
    on your right hand. Assume a G or C major chord with your left hand
    and strum the piss out of it. Practice relaxing your wrist and fore
    arm so that you can achieve a more fluid motion.  Just practice
    strumming for a few days and forget about chord progressions for
    a while. 
    
    By the way, if you're interested in a free lesson, I live in Hudson,
    just off of rt 85. Send me mail if you're interested.
    
    Rob

    
    	RE: .6
    
    	 If you could supply a phone number I could call him at,
    	that would be great.  Does he give lesson on a regular
    	basis?
    
    	G.

    
    	"All the knowledge in the world aint worth the paper it's printed
    on if it's not put to use"
    
    	Sounds like you've had enough of the knowledge part and are
    in need of the "puttin to use" part.
    
    	Although you can learn a lot from a good teacher, the dollars
    and the "superior / subordinate" relationship may not be best for
    you at this point. The words "learned a lot from him when we were
    in the same band" gives some light to what I mean. Check out the
    blues jam guy in Chelmsford, for example...
    
    	There's a small possibility that you may be a left hand strummer!
    
    	Another strategy would be to buy a bass guitar. They are easy
    to play and are excellent in fostering rythm development. When
    "everybody" shows up with a six string -or- you want to play in
    a band; you can easily pick up the bass!
    
    	Ear training usually takes a lot of experience. Someone I know
    who can pick up a guitar and start playing along with a song on
    the radio virtually immediately has 10+ years under his belt as
    a musician. I guess it helps to know something about how music is
    structured, in general.
    
    	One good piece of advice I've heard from the past: Play using
    "real" notes and accurately referenced tuning. A guitar will sound
    OK tuned to itself, but if your a 1/4 step sharp to the "standard"
    tuning, even the "someone I know" cant seem to match anything to
    what's on the radio.
    
    	Joe Jas            

    
    	If you can hear the drum beat, try this for strumming.
    	When the drummer hits the bass drum, downstroke on the
    	low string(s).   When the drummer hits the snare, then
    	up or down stroke on the high strings. 
    
    	A common 4/4 would be...
    
    	1     2      3          4     :  1     2      3          4
    	bass  snare  bass bass  snare    bass  snare  bass bass  snare
    	v     ^      v    v     ^        v     ^      v    v     ^
    
    	Almost always downstroke with the bass drum, do whatever feels
    	right with the snare.  I personally use mostly downstrokes.
    
    	Once you get the feel of it, play more by doing the "drum rolls"
    	too!!
    

    
    Hmmm, I thought that was a bit hard for a beginner to get the feel
    of, esp if the drummer plays sync with the bass drum, your hand
    is going to be in spasms trying to keep up.
    
    I'd try it like this:
    
    1        2	   3          4    |  1       2      3          4     |
    Bass   snare  bass bass  snare | Bass   snare   bass bass  snare  |
    
     v       v     v    ^     v       v       v      v    ^     v
    
    
    My idea being: If you keep a constant eighth note strum going like
    
    1   2   3   4   |
    v ^ v ^ v ^ v ^ |  ...you won't ever really lose the beat no matter
    what the syncopation might be. And, if you have to play syncopation
    yourself, you keep the arm motion but `miss' hitting the strings.
    I think that's thebest way one can do it til the can `feel' it.
    
    wjb
    

    I remember a similar problem in the dim & distant pastof my training
    which really drove me mad until I sussed out where I was going wrong.
    
    	I used to move my hand too much, i.e. I'd attack the strings
    from way too high & follow through too far.  This had the result
    of not giving me enough time to get back for the next stroke.  It
    was also a very tiring technique I can tell you.  If you think about
    it ( as I eventually did) one only needs about 2.5 inches of movement
    to cover all six strings.  
    
    Another point is if you watch a more experienced guitarist driving a
    fast rock song along in straight 4/4, the guy may only actually be
    using the bottom three strings so again a lot less movement, a lot
    more speed & more time to think. 
                
    On a philosophical note, the guitar is probably the instrument most
    dependant on technique & the techniques are usually simple but not
    always obvious, well not to a dumbo like me anyhow.
    
    	Keep strumming George you'll get there I'm sure, I'd offer to
    give you lessons but Reading England is a little bit far to travel
    for a session.
    
    	Cheers
    
    		Pete.

    
    	Thanks to everyone that has taken the time to reply, I have
    	gained some very good points from all of you. As a update, I
    	have left the guitar alone for the last week, my thinking being
    	I was frustrating myself too much to learn anything. This morning
    	I picked it up before I left for work and found I was a little
    	more relaxed than usual. Maybe part of my problem is the level
    	of frustration I had reached. My plan of attack now is to contact
    	Mark Connors and see if I can get setup with lessons, and to
    	take it a little less serious. I really think I was working
    	too hard at it and that's when I started to loose any progress
    	I have made since I first started.
    
    	  I'll keep you all posted on my luck with getting an instructor.
    
    	Again, many many thanks,
    	George

    I'm surprised that nobody mentioned it, but one thing that helped me
    work on rhythm was to not play a chord when strumming.  Just ignore the
    left hand (maybe muff the strings with it) and go for a percussive
    sound.  I found that I was concentrating too much on the chords/notes I
    was playing and it was messing up my timing. Figure it this way, a
    percussive sound which is in time is probably going to sound better
    than a million chords which are off.
    
    Playing with a drum machine or record really helps.
    
    I *still* have mucho problems with keeping my rhythm too, so this
    discussion has been of particular interest to me.  I tend to drift if I
    don't concentrate on it.  Not enough practice with the old metronome or
    drum machine, I'm afraid.
    
    Good luck & hang in there!  It only get's better with practice.
    
    Greg 

    You guys are great. I also am a brand new guitarist that is also
    experiencing the frustrations encountered in the early stages of 
    attempting to play/learn. Your recommendations and encouraging
    words have put me more at ease already. Now I need to apply what
    has been suggested. Looks like the trick is too relax and enjoy!
    
    You stamped out my getting discouraged in the early stages of my
    guitar playing career ;^)))
    
    - Pete
    

    RE: -1
    
    Pete,
    
    The source of frustration will always be there.  There will always be
    some guitar player doing something that you wanna do or wish you could
    do.  Let it drive you, not discourage you.  I am satisfied with my
    guitar abilities, and I mostly enjoy just playing out and jamming when
    I can.  I really don't practice seriously anymore....so I really can't
    complain or be frustrated by some hot player that blows me away at a
    bar jam.  If I learn a new lick, it's because I play something by accident
    and if it soundz cool I try to remember it so I can repeat it. 8^)  
    
    Watch other guitar players, jam with players that are better than you, 
    read books, take lessons, relax and enjoy!
    
    Steve