Conference napalm::guitar

    
    `snob appeal'...does it even apply??
    
    I mean, you could say "Oh *I* use a Sennheiser 441 vocal mike",
    or "I only use 421's for my drum sounds". Fact is, Sennheiser
    does have a name, but there's a reason it has a name for itself,
    they have great products, and their mics are going to sound better
    than, say, a Shure mic.
    
    I use Marshall amps. Some people think that's only cuz of its
    replutation. I just like the way they sound. I know I don't like
    the way a peavey sounds with me playing thru it...its not me. 
    I guess I could buy a Boogie or two for the `status' of having one,
    but i won't because i don't like them.
    
    I donno, I buy what sounds good, regardless of name. Where do you
    think `snob appeal' comes into play?
    

    The only thing I'm snobby about is my disdain of "snob appeal".
    
    	db, Snobby Carvin guitar owner

	I agree with sound is important,If I can get the sound out of a
piece of hardware then the name/brand is trivial. However quality is
important,or the lack thereof and I think there are tradeoffs for every-
thing you buy. And to get that sound it involves electronic design,speakers,
your guitar to get a sound. Why support companies who make products where
the customer has to make trade off's? Some people buy for status and some sound.
	I've had several different brands and could be safe to say that for
a given application I might need 2 different amp's like a Fender and a Marshall
to get the sound's I want. Feel is important too,more time's I have gone into
music stores and played on off the shelf name brand instruments(Gibson,Fender)
and played a lesser brand(public opinion) and was amazed how bad the Fender and
the Gibson felt. Some dealers spend the time and money to make there instr-
uments very playable,most don't! 
	Whether I compare a Fender to a Boogie or a Seymour or a Marshall to a 
GK,which ever amp get's me that sound is the one I would buy.
	I would think it's unfair to compare a Peavey to a Boogie or a Marshall
or whatever. I suppose spending 3 to 5k for a Dumble amp may be a bit snobish,
but most of the people who use Dumbles only buy them for the sound they hear
and want and are willing to pay on a much higher scale to get this sound. If
you are satisfied with your sound with a Peavey then you've made your choice
and trade off.	Well enough soapbox........ 

					no snob here! :^)	 
    					

    It seems to me that there's a lot more to brand recognition than
    just snob appeal. While there are certainly people who glorify in
    showing off, some people just feel good about driving a well-made
    automobile. Personally, I feel that the inclination to buy "popular"
    brands is created more by the hope that if everyone else thinks it's
    good you won't be getting ripped off.
    
    Let's face it, there's so much equipment on the market, and new
    stuff coming all the time, who can really know the ins and outs
    of everything before making a purchase? If you're lucky you might
    know someone who uses the stuff you want to buy already, and can
    get a first-hand account. But in most cases you have to buy with
    little more to go on than a brief test-drive under sub-optimal
    conditions (see my note elsewhere on test-driving guitars). Buying
    from a company with a history of supplying quality products gives
    me more confidence than buying the latest thing on the floor from
    some outfit I never heard of before.
    
    OK, I admit it. I've got a Martin acoustic, a Gibson electric, and
    a Seymour-Duncan amp. All top of the line stuff. I didn't get it
    because I wanted to make people drool over it. I bought it because
    I was familiar with the manufacturers and their reputations for
    reliability and service, because I know a lot of other famous and
    not-so-famous musicians who use their stuff, and who make nice sounds
    with it, and because shopping for gear takes a lot of time, and
    I want to buy things selectively that are going to last for a while,
    both in terms of working properly and sounding good to me.
    
    Let's put market value and snob appeal aside for a minute. Why are
    people so crazy to have old Martins, Les Pauls, Strats, etc.? Not
    just because they are "antiques", or "classics". Because for the
    most part they still sound great, in many cases even better than
    new stuff, because they were made well to begin with, by people
    who cared about producing quality musical instruments.

    I'm not saying that Fender's or Gibson's are better than brand X.
    I don't want to get into that debate, and I don't even have an opinion.
    I've played some lousy guitars by any manufacturer you could name.
    Even Rolls-Royce has probably produced a few lemons. But I wouldn't
    downgrade a responsible manufacturer for charging a reasonable price
    for good merchandise if they are really putting the quality into
    it. And I don't feel envious of others who can afford better (or
    more) equipment than I have. So I think snob appeal is a secondary
    consideration in this case.

    - Ram

    I think that the term "image" has a lot to do with snob appeal.
    I have played in bands with guys who thought that their equipment
    was an important part of the show.  The stage had to look good. If
    that meant having extra equipment on the stage that never got used
    it was OK with them.  The idea was to prove to the audience that
    the band was real cool.
    
    One guy didn't think that my twin looked "tough enough" for a rock band
    and was glad when I got an extra cabinet to use with it.  I got the
    second cab to get more bottom, not to make the stage look better. 
    This same guy was sad when I sold my Flying V.  He thought the V
    looked great on stage.
    
    In the rock scene, it is perfectly cool to have an old, srcatched,
    mangled Les Paul, strat, whatever.  I seem to recall the Mark Farner of
    Grand Funk had a Messenger guitar that was so beat it had tape holding
    the body together.  Can you imagine some guy in the Tonight Show
    band playing a taped-together guitar?  Johnny wouldn't care if it
    was vintage Gibson that sounded great if it looked like junk on
    TV.  
     
    Image, and snob appeal,  also applies to looks.  Think of all the
    talk about Ann Wilson's weight problem.  The fact that she sounds
    great seems to be less important than her looks to some people.
    
    Well, I've rambled enough.
    
    Kevin
    

    
    	Re .3  Some folks still bad mouth Peavy stuff.  When Peavy first
    	       came out, maybe their stuff wasn't so  hot, but about
    	       four years ago. I saw a band that used *all* Peavy from
    	       guitar picks up to the PA, and they sounded great.  I
    	       like the way Peavy amps sound.
    
    	       As far a snob disdain.  As a Berklee student, I first
    	       had a 335, but when I sold it, and bought a strat, three
    	       of the guitar teachers gave me alot of crap because I didn't have
               a *real* jazz guitar like a Gibson.
    
    	       Guy Novello
              

    There's a long standing joke in the PA business:
    
    You know, there's 6 major things wrong with your PA system,
    
    P  E  A  V  E  Y
    
    get it??
    
    RE .6
    
    I took my lessons with W G Leavitt himself, and on my first lesson
    I took my pinstrip Jackson V out of its case and he said "good lord,
    is that what they're doing to guitars these days? What ever happened
    to the 175??"                                    
    
    wjb

    RE: .4
    One more thing that could be added to your comments - I think people
    buy, say old Martins, Gibsons, Fenders, etc, because they seem to
    retain value.  I have a number of Martins and I love them.  They
    hold their value, and in most cases, they appreciate.  That's something
    that cannot be said of a lot of other things in this world.  Now
    I have recently played some truly outstanding acoustics from the
    Santa Cruz Guitar Company and Taylor.  They are the equal of anything
    that Martin is producing these days, and Martin is doing good work.
    Still, what are the Taylors and SCGCs going to be worth in, say
    20 years?  Who knows.  On the other hand, if I were out looking
    for a new axe, I would be really tempted to go to these other companies
    and have a look.  
    In the end, you have to balance quality, durability and sound against
    image.  Go for what pleases you and suits your needs.  
    
    Paul
    

    re. .7  <There's 6 major things wrong with your PA system,
    
    P  E  A  V  E  Y>
    
    	What are you saying. Are you saying that Peavey PA equipment
    is no good, or are you being sarcastic ?
    
    	I started this notes file, after realizing how foolish I had
    been all these years to try and judge equipment by it's name brand
    in stead of it's sound. For years I dreamed about assembling my
    own PA system with equipment like Soundcraft or Studiomaster mixers,
    Crown Amps, JBL speakers, Ashley and other esoteric products. If
    I had stuck to my convictions about assembling a true esoteric
    system I would still be saving for a mixer. Not only that, if I
    had say $1500 invested in a mike, I would cringe every time some
    one breathed near it. PA equipment is ganna be thrown in the back
    of a truck, tripped over, pushed to the max electrically, left
    in a cellar and eventually is gonna wear out. I ended up buying 
    several Peavey products for my sound system. My mixer, and mike 
    are both Peavey. My power amp is made by AMR which is owned by 
    Peavey. I never planned to put together an all Peavey system, but 
    every time I go shopping for equipment, I find myself impressed 
    with Peaveys sound quality, their product offering, the price, 
    availability, and so far I have not been dissipointed with any of it. 
    For everyperson I talk to that bad mounths Peavey, I find 2-3 people that
    respect Peavey. I too was very sceptical before, but now I have
    an open mind. I think this is a major breakthrough for an old
    brickwall like me.
    
    
    						Mark J.
    
    
    Now that I am married, I am lucky that I
    can afford to buy any equipment without buying the absolute best.
    In shopping for P.A. equipment, I have 

    re: .9
    
    Well, personally I think some of their stuff sounds pretty good,
    but I was just stating that a lot of sound engineers make fun of
    their stuff, because they don't like the sound quality. 
    
    wjb

    Peavey quality is not the issue here, it's snob appeal.  Peavey
    equipment is so common and basically inexpensive that it has the
    snob appeal of generic toothpaste.  Now, amps like Boogie and Marshall
    are real expensive and much less common, which adds to their appeal.
    
    I remember the days of the Marshall Major.  A good night with that
    amp meant that it didn't blow up.  I think the possibility of an
    electrical file only added to the appeal!
    
    
    Kevin
    

    It kinda reminds me of the Hyundai commercial on TV where the
    neighbor is ribbin the guy about his Hyundai, and asks if
    he has seen his sexy new car. Yeh, where is it says the Hyundai
    owner, "Well, er, it's in the shop right now, by the way can I
    have a ride down town". I have known people that have spent the
    long dollar on things before and either not had good luck with
    them, or just simply weren't happy with them. 
    
    	I have heard a lot of sound engineer types putting Peavey
    down, and I guess I can understand why (it's not the most esoteric
    brand in the world) but some of the same people have had esoteric 
    quality mixing boards that they have had mega problems with. I know 
    one guy that spent like 4k on a Tangent 16 track board. Every time 
    he took it out of the house it would break down. JBL is another name
    that comes to mind when I think "esoteric" but JBL has had a lot of 
    loudspeaker designs that sounded terrible. Their cabaret series was 
    a real flop. All I am saying is that after years of having the 
    misconception that a "name" is everything, I am finally learning to 
    be a realist, not so much in choosing guitars (as that is a really 
    emotional decision) but in buying electronics, and other accessories,
    I am comparison shopping for everything I buy, and keeping an open
    mind to look at everthing out there before making a decision.
    I am also thinking more practical than I did before. For example,
    Years ago, I would have bought huge speaker cabinets with sound
    (and snob appeal) as one of my main considerations, and with
    moving the damn things around as an afterthought (Oh, I guess I'm
    gonna need a bigger truck). 
    
         Lately I have been looking at equalizers and, (here we go
    again) the Peavey 2215 looks and sounds pretty impressive for the 
    price. At one time I considered buying Yamaha equipment. Now I'm
    finding one major problem with Yamaha equipment...the dealers that
    carry them. There is only one dealer in Worcester that carries
    Yamaha (Kurlin Music), I'll pass, thank you. Some of the other 
    brands that I have considered for PA include TOA (pretty good stuff,
    no better or worse than Peavey), Sunn (not too many dealers
    carrying them any more), Eastern Acoustic Speakers (Big Bucks),
    Klipsch (Few dealers carry them, great sound, HEAVEY, big bucks,
    I have 2 sets of Klipsch speakers and love em)
    Electro Voice (who carries Electro Voice ?), Shure and ATM mikes.
    Of course I looked at Soundcraft and Studiomaster. I got a good
    laugh when I compared the price of one of them with my Budget.
    
    							Mark Jacques
     
    

    Well I for one do bad mouth peavey....it's low end beginner equipment.
    I have yet to try a peavy guitar amp that sounded great, note: that's
    great not good. Since I don't intend to buy over and over again...I'll
    pass on peavey. Peavey guitars are junk, at least everyone I've
    tried had all the smoothness of a chocolat covered brick, keeping
    in mind that I rarely will play any guitar that isn't made by a
    repuatable manufacturer, peavey is not one in my mind. Peavey's
    pa systems have come a long way, the quality is better than it
    used to be, the sound is questionable. They work, no doubt and most
    of the time their stuff is reliable to a point (you won't be wanting
    to beat a peavey like you'd beat your old marshall amp that's for
    sure...and yes I know all about Marshall's problems too).
    
    Peavey maintains it's low cost by forced distribution, ie: if you
    are a peavey dealer you will buy x amount of each item in the peavey
    catalog, based on your last years net. It's up to you to pay the
    finance charges, store, and sell the stuff, is it any wonder that peavey
    gets pushed so hard by the dealers that stock it? ( this may have
    changed in the last couple of years but this was the way peavey was
    marketed in the past)                  
    
    If you want the best quality equipment skip peavey, it's not. Not that
    you should go buy Klipsh speakers etc....but peavey is far from the top
    of the line...the price proves that. I have a biamp stereo power amp
    that was not expensive and that gives great sound, it's not snobby, it
    just works reliably. I have never considered crown etc. they cost too
    much...although a DC-300 would be welcome in my house....or several, I
    do lust after a studiomaster board, but not for gigging...for my home
    studio....and they're not that expensive when you start comparing with
    other high quality studio boards.. 
    
    as far as snob appeal....well I like my american made fenders, and
    no they're not "vintage" their post cbs so no real snob appeal
    there....I also like my washburn is that snobby? I buy high quality
    euqipment that fits me. Peavey is not a brand I respect....ever
    work on one? yecch! almost as bad as hitachi
    
    
    dave_who_doesn't_have_the_income_to_be_real_snobby

    re: .12
    
    Well, maybe the Peavey 2215 EQ is impressive. I don't know the first
    thing about that model, so I'll pass on commenting, but I don't
    take PA EQ's lightly, they can make or break your whole 15K & up
    system. Personally, I like Goldline's or Rane's to handle the job.
    Maybe that's some snob appeal for you there, but they're well built,
    quiet, and get the job done right the first time with no BS.   
    
    Does this Peavey EQ contain an spectrum analyzer? I think they're
    a *must*.

    
    Well, one day I went into a store in Worcester which shall go nameless
    except their initials are EUW and was looking at the Trace-Elliot
    bass amps from the U.K.
    
    Nifty looking, loud and *expensive*.  I asked the guy, out of curiosity
    how much the little 100-watt combo with 4-10's went for (never mind
    the bi-amped 500 watter with an 18 and 4-10's) and he told me, "about
    $1500" at which point I said, "That's ridiculous, no amp is worth
    that much" and he responded "Well, I guess you're not serious about
    your sound"....
    
    At which I remarked that I was serious about my sound but doing
    $30 plus free beer gigs aint the sort of job that justifies an amp
    expenditure like that....I'm sorry, I'm not independently wealthy
    and don't like being told I'm a jerk because of that.
    
    I guess as far as that store is concerned, the only serious musicians
    are the ones in debt.......

    It sounds like you talked to _ _ _ _. he has always been like that.
    The Trace-Elliots do sound great,if fact whenever I go in there
    to have work done on my bass...I always ask him if I can jam a bit...he
    says sure,and I proceed to grab the PRS,or the Padulla off the wall,and
    plug it in to the biggest T-E they have. He always says "Be Careful!
    they're expensive" and I say "good then they'll be able to handle
    my abuse"...He would never say that if I grabbed an ESP,and plugged
    into a Crate....they sound,and do the same thing even if they don't
    glow in the dark...

    RE: 374.15
    
    Then go buy a damned Peavey!

       I really don't understand where this note is going ? OK ! Peavey
    isn't for everyone ! Marshall isn't for everyone ! Dumble's aren't
    affordable by everyone ! Everyone has their own sound. Maybe the
    people that are SOOOOOOOO critical of Peavey amps should be blindfolded
    and play through an amp without knowing what it is and THEN make
    a desision as to whether or not they like it or not. They might
    not like it . THEY MIGHT HATE IT !!! That's their opinion and everyone
    has one. I've played Fender and Peavey amps for yrs. I never had
    problems with them. I had a Marshall Major 200 do a light and
    smoke-bombshow one night in the middle of a gig. I haven't wanted
    one since. Don't get me wrong, I love the sound, but I can't afford
    to buy two heads incase one blows. I take reliability seriously!!!!!!
    With everything though you have to trade one thing for another.
    My hot-footed 130+ watt MX amp may not have the "MARSHALL SOUND",
    but for what I'm doing, it does alright and yes I can't afford a
    fully-loaded Boogie. I have a mortage and two kids to feed and keep
    clothes on, so I have to sacrifice something. The amp !!!! I thank
    people like Peavey who can at least make amps half way good and
    not kill the bank account. $500. for a MX amp isn't that cheap either.
    
    Fred who-can-kill-small-animals-at-50yards-with-his-130+-watt-peavey-MX
   
    

>    $1500" at which point I said, "That's ridiculous, no amp is worth
>    that much" 
    
    Boogies are.   ;-)
    
    	db

    I would hate to see this note turn into a "I hate Peavey" discussion.
    I thought the topic of snob appeal was a good one; some people spend
    huge sums of money to get the "right stuff" and look down their
    guitar necks at those who have anything less.  
    
    Whether or not the "right stuff" is determined by the sound/quality of
    the instrument, amp, etc or simply the name on the front should be
    obvious, but it's not. Why would someone spend huge sums of money
    for a marshall amp the size of a toaster? Because it's a marshall. 
    
    No one asked.  Just my opinion... 
                  
    Kevin
    

      In regards to the original theme of this note, I think what people
    see either on TV or at concerts make people buy (sometimes) certain
    equipment. Some people buy Marshalls just because they saw their
    favorite guitarist use one. Is this "SNOB APPEAL", or is it the
    old syndrome of, "gee, he has one so I have to have one too" ? Most
    of the people I know personally would buy or have a Marshall (just
    for example I use Marshall and for no other reason) because of the
    way they sound, but then most people buy amps FOR the certain
    sound that comes with that amp. I have a 1970 Gibson Les Paul (low-Z)
    Recording model guitar that has a certain sound that isn't very
    popular, but was the most expensive Les Paul at that time! I had
    it appraised for $1200. (insurance reasons), but when I asked what
    the "market" value was, he just grinned and said, "well if Clapton
    was to use this type in concert it might be worth MORE than $400.00"
    Everything goes in phases as you know. Right now Strats are big
    along with Jackson/Charvel guitars. Les Pauls were and will be a
    big selling item, but I remember a few yrs ago when it was real kool
    to have a Telecaster rather than anything else. They are all great
    guitars, but they all have their OWN sound. Amps as well. I've always
    said, "guitar + amp = your sound ", whatever that equipment is.
    If you're happy with with that $100.Peavey or that $1500. Boogie
    that's great for YOU ! Some people aren't as critical of their sound
    and can be happy with a Crate. Some love their Boogies ! Going with
    the wave of the day was something we did in high school. You have
    to find something that makes YOU happy ! As for me...
    I'll take:
               2 - Mesa Boogie MK-III heads (fully loaded ofcourse)
               2 - 4-12" bottoms
               4 - Marshall 50 watt heads (incase the first three blow-up)
               1 - 1967 Corvette coupe mint condition 427ci/450hp  
                  
                       and everything else I've always wanted
                 
                 
    Fred   who-ain't-no-snob
           

    Re: .19
    
    Maybe I should clarify what I meant by "no amp is worth that much"....
    
    For a smallish self-contained bass combo amp, $1500 is a lot of
    money.
             
    Polytone, Peavey, Gallien-Kreuger, Roland, Traynor, etc. all make
    such amps that sell for $600 or less. Heck, you could put a 200
    watt G-K head plus a Thiele cab together for about $800...
    
    Even a 200 watt Boogie head plus 1-15" cab is only $1200!!!!
    
    And the *usual* use of a small bass combo is small gigs, you know
    weddings, lounges, etc.  The Trace_Elliot sounds nice but not *that*
    much nicer that makes it worth an extra $1000!!!!  Of course, if
    it is the *only* amp that will get *your* sound it's worth every
    penny, but I just couldn't see it.
    
    Now $3000 for that 500 watt twin cab stack with the black lights...now
    *that* is a bargain   8^)   8^)   8^)   8^)
    
    

    Re: .20
    
    Hey, I have one of those Marshalls the size of a toaster. I looked
    at it and laughed until I plugged into it, and it sounded awesome!

    Re: .23
    
    If you like the sound, great.  However, the liitle Marshalls aren't
    cheap.  Do you think that a place like Daddy's Junky Music would sell
    many at that price if the name on the front said GK, Roland, Fender,
    etc instead of Marshall?  I don't. 

    Kevin
                                     
    

        Come on now, let's NOT get down on Marshall. Those micro-stack
    amps are interesting. They don't sound THAT bad. I wouldn't go out
    and buy one and use it for my main amp and maybe the price is high
    compared to what you get, but Daddy's wouldn't sell something that
    wasn't being bought up by people either. Supply and demand remember !
    This note could go on and on. Something for everybody. Life would
    be so boring if we ALL had the same equipment. No variety in life!!!
    Nothing to complain about ! The people that go out and buy equipment
    that looks good on stage because everybody else is using one and
    don't want to left out, sometimes find out that maybe it was such
    a wise choice of equipment. Some buy for the same reason and love
    it ! I've made a lot of bad choices in buying equipment, but I've
    tried to learn from the experience. Maybe you're right about Daddy's
    not selling as many micro-stacks if they had the Peavey name on
    it instead of Marshall, but then whos fault is that ?? The buying 
    public !  That's who ! Follow YOUR ear and buy something that YOU
    like. If you find out that it's a Les Paul and a Marshall 1/2 stack
    then that's fine, but if it happens to be a Peavey Bandit 65 and
    a Hondo guitar, then all power to you. Some people can't tell the
    difference ya know. 
    
    Fred ( but what do I know ? )
    

    
    Quotes:
    
    Marshall Micro Stack $275.00
    Gallien-Krueger 250ML $500.00
    
    For the price/performance ratio, *I'd* buy two micro stacks for the
    price of one GK. 
    
    I think the new micro stacks sound great, Fred thinks they sound
    good, someone else might hate them, its all such a personal thing,
    no?                                   
    
    A Peavey Bandit might go for somewhere in the 300's (I don't know),
    which would be the best `buy', but I think its what you want to
    hear.

    re: 0.26
    
     sounds good to me Bill !!!
    
    
    
    
    Fred

    re: .26
    
    I never said that the tiny Marshall didn't sound good.  I only said that
    they were expensive and that people would buy them because of the
    Marshall name on the front.  That's part of what snob appeal is
    about.
           
    Let's pick on Boogies for a while.  DB has been especially quiet.
    
    Kevin
    

    Re: .28
    
    Ok, you're right.
    
    Snob appeal!!! I see people who go out and spend oodles and oodles
    of money on Boogies and they sound like trash. I must confess I
    have only heard about 10 different boogie amps in my time, and I
    only heard two of them *I* would consider buying. I think Boogie
    is an anp where either you buy all the options or forget it. I see
    the 5 band eq option on a boggie as an important part of that singing
    boogie sound, and a lot of people don't get that one!
    
    Boogies are a lot like Marshalls, there are some good ones, and
    some real dogs out there (woof woof!).
    
    Besides, where do they get off making 300WT heads??? Who the hell
    needs those??                           

    Re: .29
    
    Well said!  And what about the cabinets.  The rest of the amplifier
    world uses some tolex variant.  But boogies?  Nooooooooooo.  The
    really snobby boogies use wood that looks like it came from Aunt
    Emma's favorite china cabinet.
    
    Boogies are ***THE*** yuppie amplifier.
    
    Kevin
    

>    The rest of the amplifier world uses some tolex variant.  But 
>    boogies?  Nooooooooooo.
    
    Would you package a fine wine in an aluminum can?

    The Boogie owner doesn't concern himself with the trends of "the 
    rest of the amplifier world".

>    I only heard two of them *I* would consider buying.
    
    Boogies aren't made to sound like Marshalls.

    	db

      It is my observation that this discussion has resulted in some
    folks being snobby ABOUT the snobs.:-)
    
      We all have our likes and dislikes. Some uninformed folks will
    buy on name only. Their loss. Some will buy because they like it.
    The way to go.
    
      We are all right because it is personal choice.

    Compare apples to apples not to oranges!
        
    Let's look at the facts!


Volkswagon = Peavey Why did Hartley and the good ole boy's get started? He
couldn't buy an amp out of his dad's music store as I remember.He needed
something inexpensive.

Chevy=Fender

Buick=Boogie(80% of Randall Smith's Design is near plagerism and a modern-
ization of a PCBS Fender)The 20% left is from the solidstate graphic EQ and
channel switching.(a fine wine? no but more progress than Fender or Marshall
could make during the 70's.)

Cadillac=Seymour Duncan(this design is a marriage of the older marshall's and
optional fender/marshall and boogie preamps etc...) Probably more progressive 
and innovative than anyone. A very versatile amp for a versatile musician who
has the fat wallet.

Ford=Marshall(Early Marshalls are similiar to tweed Fenders in Design)Jim 
Marshall started this company out of need for a cheap bass amp.

Rolls Royce=Dumble(Heavily influenced by Fender and hand made like a Martin)

Of course almost all these amp design's have a reference point of a Early RCA/GE
tube applications manuals that the founding fathers used.

If sounds good, buy it! Snob appeal? who cares?

I really think this whole discussion is pointless,now can we get back to a more
palatable subject like guitar and refrain from that common notesfile blackhole 
of"I hate this and you hate that"! :^)


							Rick

    re: last couple of notes
    
    I almost hate to tell you guys, but WJB, Kevin, and I are just kidding
    around.

	db

    
    Being someone who has no current use and little potential use for
    an amplifier at all (completely amatuer..or should it be novice?
    I don't know..I don't perform and poke at an acoustic regardless),
    hearing everyone's opinions, or kidding, is pretty illuminating 
    so please go on....
    
    
    

    
       Having started this note, I feel that I have a god-given right
    to have the last word. I have heard a lot of opinions here, most
    of which I expected.
    
       What I have learned over the years is not to be impressed by
    how expensive equipment is, or the name on it, but how it functions. 
    I've seen bands that obviously had plenty of money invested in 
    equipment but didn't sound good. I've seen other bands that had
    to be thrifty (like some of the bands I've been in) and had to make
    due with homebrew PA cabs, and other ways of cutting cost, but sounded
    good. 
    
    	I can remember times when I've seen someone with something real
    expensive and assumed that they must be thrilled with it only to
    find out that they are not satisfied. My cousin bought a Mesa Boogie
    a few years back. I've heard him through it and thought he sounded
    great. He told me he was considering buying a Peavey Classic for
    a clean sound because he liked the clean sound of the Classic better
    than his Boogie. I thought my god, you mean the Mesa isn't perfect,
    it can't do everything and anything under the sun. I was crushed.
    All those daydreams about being flanked by Boogie stacks, crushed.	
                                                                      
    	This subject has let us down a path similar to the 335 note.
    Most of us ended up admitting that it was all a matter of opinion.
    I feel differently about buying guitars than I do about buying
    electronics. When it comes to buying a guitar it is as much emotional 
    as it is sound, feel, or looks. I have heard people compare playing
    music on a fine musical equipment to making love. Now if that's
    not emotional what is ? But when it comes to buying electronics,
    it is a different story. For one thing, equipment is constantly
    being updated and obsoleted. For example, you can buy a Fostex
    four track cassette recorder for $1000 today that will blow away
    a professional reel to reel four track of yesteryear that cost
    $4000. With the technology available today, you can get great 
    sounding equipment for a very reasonable price if you shop around
    and don't let people steer you or make decisions for you. Do a blind
    A/B listening test before judging one piece of equipment against
    another.
    
    	As far as Peavey goes in general. I have always thought of Peavey
    as an inexpensive (not cheap) alternative to more expensive equipment
    that I cannot afford. I have found other people who feel that Peavey 
    is just as good as some of the more expensive counterparts. Other
    people view Peavey as junk and they are entitled to their opinion.
    I view Peavey as a fairly diverse company. They have their "cheap
    beginners grade" equipment, the middle of the road prepackaged systems,
    and some high end stuff of fairly high quality. They admit in their own
    catalogues and manuals they don't usually opt for the most expensive
    "money no object" approach when designing a product (see their
    discussion on professional monitor mixers in their catologue). In
    stead they choose to make products that make sense. One thing about
    Peavey dealers that I like is that they have a good selection of
    assesories "in stock" as apposed to having to order everything special
    that you want. I'm not hung up on Peavey either. Most of my equipment
    is brands other than Peavey (and no, I'm not particularly impressed
    with their guitars), but some of my equipment is, and I may very
    well choose more Peavey equipment in the future.
    
    
    	Enough said !!!
    
    						Mark Jacques
    
                                                                         
                              
    

    
    Sorry to steal the last word. 
    
    I think what's really being talked about here is not snob appeal,
    but the old favorite:
                    
                            Talent/Equipment
    
    ratio. When this ratio gets too low, people think you are buying
    equipment for the snob appeal, in other words, to draw attention
    from your sound. When this ratio gets pretty high, people start
    thinking that the equipment is the reason that it all sounds so
    good. That's why everyone wants what their star has. But having
    that equipment doesn't give you the same ratio. 
    
    Too bad you can't increase the numerator simply by spending money.
    

     " A poor craftsman blames his tools"