Conference napalm::guitar

    I think you'll find that Eddie Van Halen holds his pick the same
    way...as I do....while it's not the textbook method I think doesn't
    matter much...
    
    I pick in both directions....ie: 1 noe on the downstroke the next
    on the upstroke...with pracctice this can get pretty fast....other
    than that I can't think of much other than practive practice practice
    
    dave

    Caveat: my own picking is terrible, but I can be as cerebral about
    guitar playing as the next guy.
    
    1) Always practice with a clean sound.  Distortion hides inaccuracies
       in your playing.
    
    2) Choose your exercises carefully.
    
       Find out what aspects of your picking technique are weak and
       choose exercises that emphasize them.  Don't blindly run through
       any exercise you happen to find in a book.  Pick ones that will
       help you.
    
       For example, if your cross picking is weak, choose exercises
       that you never play on the same string two notes in a row.
    
       If your timing is bad, just about any exercise will help.  The
       standard 3 finger exercise is probably the easiest cause you
       can even do it while your talking on the telephone.  I avoid
       the 4 finger exercise because with that one your always picking
       each string in the same direction. 
    
    3) THere are  certain exercises which you want to practice picking
       in BOTH directions.  (I.E. starting with an downstroke, and then
       starting with an upstroke.)
    
    4) Practice with a metronome (or better yet, a drum machine).  There 
       are a ton of reasons for this that I won't go into.
    
    Regarding how you hold the pick: my opinion is that it depends on
    how much time you've invested in this.   If you've been holding
    the pick this way for years and holding it (mostly) with your
    thumb and first finger feels awkward, it probably doesn't make
    sense to change.
    
    Anyway, I don't claim to be an expert.  I offer advise mainly because
    this is something I've thought about a lot.
    
    	db
    
    Steve Morse not only holds the pick with his thumb and middle finger,
    he also turns his write outward and curls his other fingers in.
    This is very unorthodox and is a sacrifice of technique for the
    ability to accurately mute strings.  However, Morse is one of the
    best pickers around mainly because he's had to make up for the
    trade-off in technique he's made with extra practice.
    
    I think there are a lot of advantages of holding the pick your way.
    It makes it somewhat easier to use your first finger for hammer-ons
    (clearly an important part of Eddie's style).  The major disadvantage
    is that holding the pick that way adds tension to the wrist and
    gives you a little less mobility (for example, I'd imagine that
    it's harder to cross pick strings).

    I hold the pick between my thumb and index finger. This leaves
    my other three fingers open for fingerpicking other notes. 

    I also hold the pick between my thumb and index finger, but sometimes
    shift it down so both my index and middle fingers are holding it
    with my thumb, especially when playing rhythm. This gives a slightly
    heavier touch and better hold on the pick when strumming rapidly.
    I also use my free fingers for fingerpicking harminics. I often
    play with a thumb pick instead of a flat pick, which gives a very
    different sound, mainly because the pick is very heavy. The mobility
    of my thumb makes it possible to do very fast and light strumming
    for funk type rhythms.
    
    Personally, I wouldn't be afraid to experiment with different styles.
    I have changed my style of playing often as I have evolved. I would
    rather be versatile in my technique than be a monster in one style
    of playing. After a while you can become slave to something if you
    are afraid to change. I don't try to blow people away with one lick
    that I can play better than anybody else in the world. It doesn't
    impress me that somebody has done the same thing repeatedly until
    they can do it like a machine. I'd rather see people who can express
    their creativity in a variety of ways.

	Arlen Roth give a few pointers/exercises to help with picking
	technique in the current issue of Guitar Player Mag.  (In his
	column "Hot Guitar".  Basically they are geared towards right
	hand independance.

	-gary

    Here's an exercize for developing a strong right hand technique.
    
    Go thru all the variations of the two lists below:
    
    Picking motion			# of x's a note is picked
    --------------			-------------------------
    A) all down strokes			1) pick each note once
    B) all up strokes			2) pick each note twice
    C) up and down picking		3)  "    "    "   3 times
    					4)  "    "    "   4 times
    
    Go thru this with the logical combinations (ie - a & 1-4, b & 1-4,
    c & 1-4) on all 5 blues positions, all the major scales, arpeggios,
    and chromatic excercizes. the arpeggios are the best as they work
    the picking hand across the strings. 
    
    i like to take each arp. separately and play the form chromatically
    up the neck with a certain picking form above. You get the most
    milage out of it that way.
    
    have at it.
    
    WjB

  You've got a lot of good tips so far.

  Here are a few things that I do.

 - Keep the pick close to the string before and
   after a strike.  Sometimes I watch my pick to
   make sure that it is only going where I want
   it to go.

 - Keep the right hand and arm as relaxed as possible.
   I used to anchor my little finger to the guitar
   but now I keep my right hand free.  I find it 
   easier now to get to the E and A strings.

 - Definitely play with a metronome or drum machine.

 - Don't worry about getting to the top of the metronome
   to fast.  Always strive for accuracy.

 - Figure out how you want the notes accented and practice
   them that way.  For example, all notes could sound the
   same, or accent every 4th note, or accent every 3rd note,
   etc.  This won't really help with your speed, but you should
   get this down someday so you might as well do it all at once.

 - If you practice for long periods at a time, be sure to take
   a few breaks to give your arms a rest.  Otherwise, you can get 
   tendonitus in your elbows and wrists. (That would not be good.)
  
 - Practice for about a million hours. ;-)  

  The things that I listed above have helped me a lot.  I hope
  you find them useful.

frank

    
    
    This isn't picking technique - more *playing* technique - but I    
    couldn't find a topic so I'll put it in here...                    
                                                                       
    When I play 5ths I had a tendancy to arch my hand *all* the        
    time and use my little pinky far too much. I say "had" because I'm 
    working on it now and I've cleared up (just about) the using "the  
    little finger too much" problem - but I still find it dificult to  
    make simple chord (only 5ths!) changes unless I let myself arch my 
    hand (ie so my thumb is at the back of the neck as opposed to hooked 
    over the top).                                                     
                                                                       
    Anybody else had this problem ?? or infact - does anybody NOT view 
    this as a problem (I'm only going by what I see of other players)??
         
    -Tony

    If you're archng your wrist a lot, that tends to be a problem. 
    If your thumb is on the back of the neck instead of hooked over
    the edge, that's generally considered proper technique (by players
    who pay attention to such things).
    
    Bob

    
    I have been told that it is very sloppy technique unless you are 
    playing runs on the bottom strings (EAD etc..).
    
    Any other opinions ??

    Not true, watch any of the Jazz/classical guys & you'll notice
    the thumb is positioned centrally on the back of the neck.  It's 
    easy to see why, if you adopt a position where the thumb is hooked
    over the edge & then try a little to index finger trill about 4
    frets apart on the treble E string (a standard thing to do) you'll
    notice the little finger is almost locked & hard to move.  Now shift
    your thumb to the centre & you'll find it much easier.
    
    	Having said that I realise that I have small hands & really
    need every ounce of technique to keep up with the monster fingers.
    You may find you don't have to worry so much but I reckon it will
    help you if you do.
    
    	Cheer
    
    		Pete.
    

    
    Thanks, its good to hear that I'm not such a slob !!
    
    I find it much easier to play with my thumb on the back of the neck,
    especially if I'm changing from slide to normal and back etc..
    
    What about when it comes to soling off chords though ?? - are there
    many players who take up the "thumby" position and still (successfully)
    solo off chords ??
         
    Thanks for the help,
    -Tony

    Maybe we should start a note on thumbs, because this really has nothing
    to do with picking technique. But just to get my $.02 worth in, I know
    there are some noters who feel strongly about the "proper" position of
    the thumb a the center of the neck, as taught in classical style. As
    someone who has played classical, folk, flamenco, rock, blues, jazz,
    etc., (master of none), I don't have a religious viewpoint on this. I
    would like to point out, however, that there are styles of blues and
    rock guitar which absolutely require the thumb to be wrapped around the
    neck. This is partly to use the thumb to finger notes on the low
    strings, and partly to provide leverage to the hand for executing deep
    bends and wide tremolo. I'd suggest that people who doubt this is a
    valid style of guitar playing check out videos of Jimi Hendrix and Eric
    Clapton. You'll find their thumbs wrapped around the bottom of the neck
    about as far as you can get, almost all the time. These may not be your
    examples of the finest guitar players in the world, but I don't think
    anyone can deny that they excell in their own styles. And please don't
    tell me that they could have been much better guitar players if they
    had learned proper technique. If you do, you'll have to back it up with
    a live demonstration of yourself playing a Hendrix or Clapton tune
    using "proper" classical technique and duplicating the sound of th
    original. For myself, I prefer to use the technique that's appropriate
    to the style I'm playing in.
    
    By the way, I second the opinion that was expressed a few notes back
    that one reason why classical and jazz guitarists adopt the
    center-thumb position is to extend the reach of the little and ring
    fingers. With the hand arched properly over the neck it does extend the
    reach. But in support of my previous comments, I watched a video of
    Clapton recently and observed that he literally never uses his little
    finger to fret at all.
    
    So, degustibus non es disputandum (or something like that) which in
    Latin means basically "each to his own taste".
    
    - Ram

    Even the best classical players break the "rules".  I've seen Chris
    Parkening fret notes with his thumb - in concert, not just fooling
    around.  The idea is to develop the technique that suits your chosen
    style, but try to be flexible enough to change when you need to.
    
    Bob

    I notice that when I pick or strum my acoustic sitting down, for any
    length of time, my arm starts to fall asleep (go numb).  I can't seem
    to comfortably alter my position to avoid it.
    
    Does this happen to anyone else?  What am I doing wrong?
    
    Mike

    Thanks John, I'm not sure how that affects my arm falling asleep
    though.
    
    Mike

    -1
    
    Call me dyslexic, but often I'll start my picking passages on an UP
    stroke!  It just feels better to me!
    
    Try it if the other way feels odd...you never know
    
    PS - Don't feel too bad, Jef Watson picks the same way and he's an
         awesome picker!
    
    B.

    I think the best way to go about it is to pick out a lead passage or a
    song you really like and to learn it. A good picker should be able to
    hit notes on either upstroke or downstroke. The combination of upstroke
    and downstroke for any given riff is determined by the cross picking
    that needs to be accomplished:
    
    For example, The riff for Led Zeppelin's Immigrant Song:
    
    
    D ----------4---
    A --------------
    E 2-2---2-2---2-
      v ^   v ^ v ^
    
    Learning how to shift directions is extremely important towards
    developing string accuracy. You'll notice that on the example riff,
    your hand is traveling off the E string in the right direction to
    hit the octave. If you perfect this method, you'll very rarely miss.
    
    							John.
    
                    

    re: arm falling asleep:
    
    You'll notice that on strats the body is sculptured to prevent that
    syndrome. You are probably pinching a nerve while you play. Not sure
    if sculpturing the body is an option for you . . . Maybe you could
    use a stiff armband?
    
    							John.

    Just as an aside, upstroke or downstroke is very important for
    determining the tone of chords. SRV does a neat little progression
    using 9 chords:
    
    E-----6-7-7---7-X-6-7-7-------
    B-----6-7-7---7-X-6-7-7-------
    G-----6-7-7---7-X-6-7-7-------
    D-----5-6-6---6-X-5-6-6-------
    A-----6-7-7---7-X-6-7-7-------
    E-----X-X-X---X-X-X-X-X-------
           /           /
          ^   v   v ^ ^   v
          + - - + - - + - - + - - (triplet swing)
    
    Don't recall the name of the tune . . . ( sorry )
    
    							John.
    

                   
    Most of the stuff I play I start with an upstroke. I find that if
    I'm going to play something like a fast arp, but without using
    sweep picking. I can get more momentum going (with alternate picking),
    if I do start it with an upstroke.                                   
                                                             
    Bending notes, using an upstroke feels really weird though!    

    one of the things I had to change when I learnt classical technique is
    learning to hold it different. The picking arm isleaned on the corner,
    whereas when I played acoustics I just about had my elbow on it.
    
     but that was with dreadnoughts and huge jazz guitars, not solids

    re: arms falling asleep
    
    You may be pinching-off the blood flow as your arm bends over the
    top of the guitar - like when a leg goes asleep when you sit
    incorrectly.  As soon as the blood flow restarts, the feeling will
    come back.
    
    So, I would say - watch the pressure on your arms on any right angles.
    
    I like to wear sweaters - they pad any pressure points and keep my
    belt buckle from doing a job on the back of the guitar.
    
    Joe