Conference napalm::guitar

    Its definately not the tightest solo ever recorded. I think it sounds
    out of tune as well. Keep in mind the song was recorded around 1974
    on a stock Strat. Considering the amount on note bending he's doing,
    I'm not surprised he's out of tune. Maybe they planned it that way
    to give the song that "raw" sound. 
    
    
    						Mark Jacques
    						LM02/Marlboro
    

    ALmost every Rolling Stones record sounds out of tune to my ears.
    
    I give them the award for "Least tuning awareness".

    However, I can understand the difficulty of the problem.  In the
    limited time that I've been trying to make my own recordings, I've
    discovered that I spend more time tuning my guitar than anything
    else.
    
    Part of the problem is the continuing problem related to the truss
    rod in my Carvin guitar (discussed somewhere else in here) but even
    when I use other guitars it just NEVER seems to sound in tune on
    the tape!!!  Minor tuning, intonation, and string bending problems
    and mistakes just seem to LEAP off the tape and say "Hah!  Hah!
    Here I am!  You stink!!!".
    
    The best solution I've found is to add chorusing or finger vibrato, 
    which tends to make these problems less obvious.
    
    	db

    
    Some great out-of-tune guitar recordings:
    
    Jimi Hendrix  "Isle of Wight"
    
    Neil Young  "Tonight's the Night"
    
    

    Actually, I'd give the "OUT of TUNE" award (perhaps a '60s vintage
    pitch pipe set) to any Grateful Dead music.  The playing is marginal
    and the singing is unaceptable.  Not even close.
    
    Paul
    

    
    Re: .4
    
    Don't let the Deadheads find out where you live, son!
    
    
    8^)
    
    

    So you don't like the Dead.  Well, that's your trip, man.
    Now tell me who you do like, so I can in return make stupid prejudged
    comments about them.

    You've done it, all right!  (.4, that is)
    
    And I'm looking forward to reading the replies to your reply.
    
    This should be fun, considering the diversity of musical taste out
    there and the strong opinions.  (Okay, no hitting below the belt;
    let's have a good, clean fight, and may the better opinion win!)
    
    I have to respect the opinion expressed in .4 (but lemme just say this
    about yo' mama [no, no, don't get excited, just kidding!]) -- you're
    not entirely wrong, and maybe not wrong at all.  But I do think you
    exaggerate the out-of-tune-ness of the Dead, and more so the quality of
    the vocals (or alleged lack thereof).  No doubt about it, this band
    settles for a rough-hewn sound (how's *that* for a euphemism?!), and
    they're not the Cantata Singers.  I have a feeling there's just a basic
    difference of style appreciation here. 
    
    As for me, my own tastes are diverse enough that I don't think I'd
    qualify as a "Dead head," but I've always liked that band -- maybe
    because they've always played AS A BAND at a grass-roots level, not as
    some hyped-up, slickly engineered studio confection.  Okay, that
    doesn't belie the criticism of their tuning/vocals.  But the point is
    that I hear something else in their music, something I think is rare
    in bands that have achieved their degree of popularity. 
    
    They have enough going for them in other respects that I can accept
    that sound.  For one thing, they have that intangible quality known
    as FEEL.  Well, known to *some* anyway (no, this is not intended
    as a shot, just a plain fact! Notice I'm not naming any bands --
    yet %^).  It's not something you learn; either you have it or you
    don't.  And they use that sense of feel to employ some interesting
    rhythms in their music, even in basic rock-and-rollers like Saturday
    Night.  Maybe R&B is a more appropriate classification.  They're
    really somewhere in between R&B, rock, folk, blues, and I dunno
    what else.
    
    And maybe I've hit on a major reason I like them: I'm a bug on RHYTHM,
    which seems to be a weak point in an awful lot of bands.  But the Dead
    also has great diversity in their material, and it's good stuff! The
    lyrics are interesting and often witty.  (For something completely
    different, listen to their salsa spoof, Mexicali Blues.  Even the
    schmaltzy horns are funny.) 
    
    But whether you dig 'em or not, you're gonna be hearing more from
    them (the Dead ain't dead, yet).   In case you haven't seen the
    latest Rolling Stone on the stands, the Grateful Dead have their
    smiling faces on the cover.  They're baaaaaaack!

    sf

                  Another out of tune wonder::
    
                Bruce Springsteen - "Glory Days"
    
    He was quoted in an interview saying his guitar was de-tuned so
    it would not have that "studio perfect" sound.
    
    
    cm
    

    re: Dead
    Boy, I sure didn't mean to get anyone upset.  I really do think
    the thing that puts me off is the vocals.  Now, I don't mind rough
    vocals, but the singer ought to be close.  Most of the Dead vocals
    seem to sound out of tune and not in pitch with their instruments.
    Most of the great rockers in this world don't have wonderful singing
    voices in the sense of Broadway or opera.  But then, I wouldn't
    listen to them if they did.  But even very rough edged singers,
    like Ry Cooder, Tom Waits, and dozens of others still sing in tune
    with their instruments.  I must confess that I have been hearing
    a lot of the new Dead album on the radio this past week and I really
    like the songs and the instrumental tracks.  I have always liked
    Garcia's playing, and he sounds quite good on the cuts I've heard.
    And to top it off, their singing doesn't seem as bad as in the past.
    I like the album, but I am still a little put off by the lead vocals.
    Sorry.
    
    Paul

    I can't pass up an opportunity to put my two cent's in. 
    
    I consider myself to be somewhat of a "Deadhead". I've been to
    dozens of shows, own every album they have ever recorderd, and
    have played lots of Dead songs in various bands. However, I can't
    live on Dead music alone, and I like to mix up my listening to
    include music from all kinds of bands like Steely Dan, Supertramp,
    Dead, Charlie Daniels, Doobies, Eagles, etc, etc. You name it, as
    long as it doesn't sound cornball, I am open to listen to everything.
    
    Getting back to the dead, I think you have to critique the band
    one album, or one concert at a time. If you do, you will find a
    mixed bag containing some really great works, both live and studio,
    as well as some really poor music. Some of my personal favorites
    include American Beauty, Europe 72, Mars Hotel, Shakedown street,
    Terripin Station, and For the Faithful (formally called Reckoning).
                                   
    When the dead first started out twenty years ago, the lead singing
    was done by Ron Macgernon (Pigpen). Many people loved pigpen and
    miss him dearly (Pigpen died of cronic liver disease in 1972). 
    I personally don't like pigpens gravelly Blues voice.
    I heard somewhere that after several years of performing, the Dead
    got together with Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young, and learned how
    to improve their vocals. If anybody knows how to vocalize, it's
    CSNY. After that the Dead improved their vocals 100%. 
    
    Try listening to some of the albums I mentioned and I think you
    will change your tune about the band. While I don't advocate abandoning
    all of the music that you presently like to become a devoted Deadhead, 
    I believe they have something to offer to everyone. Also if you
    have any doubt as to whether Bob Weir (the Dead's rhythm guitarist)
    can sing, try listening to some of his solo albums. I suggest the
    album "Heaven Help the Fool" for starters. I admit I'm biased, but
    the man has got an incredible voice. Gerry Garcia has a good voice
    too, really soulful. His voice tends to waiver a little, which gives
    him that soulful vibrato kind of effect. Admittedly Gerry has had
    some problems with has voice over the years, and even had to concel
    some concerts due to problems with his voice. 
    
    	The bottom line is that the Dead have just come out of a troubled
    phase, where Gerry Garcia came very close to death. They were essentially
    "born again" and are currently playing better than they have for
    years. Now would be a good time to go see them amd give them another
    chance to impress you musically. They definately know how to put
    on a great concert.                                          
    
    	I guess I've said enough for now. Replies welcome, but please
    no flames. Let's keep this conference on a friendly level.
    
    							Mark Jacques
    							LM02/ Marlboro
    
    
    

    I can understand how a song recorded live could have an out-of-tune
    track, be it instrument or vocal.  If the monitor mix isn't right
    it is anybody's guess as to what they sound like on stage.  However,
    I can't understand how a studio version of a song could have an
    out-of-tune guitar, bass, vocal, etc. part.  After all the effort
    expended in taping the song, why not get it right?  Of course there
    is the possibility that the singer can't sing in tune; we all have
    our favorite examples of this.  An instrument is another story.
     If a guitar won't stay in tune for at least one song, baring any
    whammy bar gymnastics, fix it or junk it.
    
    Kevin
    
    
    

    Expression of opinions are like a-holes, every one has one. We will
    keep this note on the freindly side of sings, won't we.
    
    How this got flipped to the Dredful Gate convo. is one month beyond
    me, but my opinion sais they where much more convinsing years ago
    when they where writting songs with an impression left, that they
    worked hard to please them selves as well many others. Presently,
    I'm left with the impression there out of money and writting pop
    chart trash, swill! This is not very impresive to say the least.
    Many bands have gone this route.(Monkeys, Deep Purple and on on
    on). A come back deserves more effort than this. A touch of gray
    is in the negative form. Not like Peter Gabrial, Steve Windwood
    who moves forword in time (from the sixties as well). Good production, 
    songs with texture and a melody to remember. The radio has gone
    to security and many bands have followed suite. Once you have 
    painted a picture of a mountain, why paint it again. Time to move
    on!!!
    
    PS I admit I like there Touch of Gray release, but you don't get
    fooled again, somtimes not even once.
    

    My only complaint about the latest works from Winwood and
    Peter Gabriel is why is it that in order for a song to be
    popular today it has to be synth-pop with electronically
    created drums. To my ear, the overuse of synth and electronic
    drums tends to make a lot of modern music sound redundant.
    Again this is only my opinion. I just can't understand why
    someone was making better music twenty years ago than they
    are today. I believe this is the case with Steve Winwood.
    
    In that same spirit I cannot except that cars, Strats,Les pauls
    and etc. etc. were better years ago than they are today.
    If it weren't for the corporate, cost reduction crazy exec
    types like CBS we'd still have great Fender Stratocasters.
    
    I guess I kind of digressed there a little, but you get my
    point.
    
    						Mark Jacques
    

    I must agree with that statement, I my self am sick of synth pop.
    What happened to the real drum sounds of the late sixties and early
    seventies. Myself being in a band for over 10 years have used
    synth drums for recordng, but with a diff. aprouch. We use the 
    synth not for the sound but for the ability of la machine to be
    able to play what us humans cannot play, for example, bass drum
    in 16th notes over a 4/4 time. Try that in the avarage length song.
    The only drummer I ever heard with the ability do this was the drummer
    for Deep Purple in the title track on the album Fireball, this is
    some kick-ass playing for a drummer using single bass. Pat Travers
    had a drummer with good attitude behind his playing, although this
    is a double bass drum kit. To much synth in the world today. We
    need a new instrument to start a new trend for everyone to follow
    again for the next ten years. Not a new guitar effect, not a new
    syth sound, but an instrument that employes new techniques and forms
    of scale. I like the sound of the african band behind Paul Simons
    new album, also the Chebby Chase comedy behind the video.
    He seems to always take a new look at the music scene.
    
    We for the longest time on stage and studio used an electric version
    of the washtub bass using a bicycle hand grip and brake lever with
    a single coil/string pickup through a distortion unit and flang.
    Point this at the front row at a show and watch how many people
    back away, in wonder and amazement.
    
    We also took a Digga Rythem aprouch using just preccusion. That
    got strange looks and faces too. I don't know, something different.
    
    I need some strange melodic music to spice up my life. Any input
    as to album titles or artists?
      

    Strange melodic music???
    
    Try Wendy Carlos's "Beauty In The Beast"...
    
    It's all synth, but uses alternative tunings, Indonesian rythyms
    and such. Takes some getting used to...
    
    Edd

    Thanx Edd, 
         I'll see if I can find it although if you've been to any of
    the music stores around here (Marlboro), they only carries what sells,
    you know, trash & swill (safty factor). I tried to find any and
    all of the Gentle Giant albums and could not find a one. Good thing
    a freind has a few like "Giant for a Day". This has kept me occupied
    for a while now but it's time to discover and wear out the next
    lineup of new adventures in the land of music no one has heard.
    
    As far as getting use to, I don't think that will be a problem for
    I'll listen to anything once and if I don't like, I file for the
    next urge.
    
     Any more ideas would be great. I like the fact their is a small
    generation of alliens that look elswhere other than typical radio
    polutance.