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Conference napalm::guitar

Title:GUITARnotes - Where Every Note has Emotion
Notice:Discussion of the finer stringed instruments
Moderator:KDX200::COOPER
Created:Thu Aug 14 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:3280
Total number of notes:61432

241.0. "Fender '54 '57 and '62 strats" by AYOV10::JMORRISON () Wed May 13 1987 11:10

      Recently I have been thinking about buying a new Fender Strat
    ( I've got a Tele just now ) but I'm more than a little confused
    by all the different models that are available.
    
      I'm definately not interested in the Contemporary Stats with 
    the system II and III tremelos and humbucker pick-ups as I favour
    the older design.
      Now the confusion starts! Could someone out there please tell
    me what the difference is between the U.S. standard Strats , the
    vintage re-issue '57 and '62's and the Jap made models ?
    
      Just out of interest , does anyone know what the difference is
    between the '54 , '57 and '62 Strats ? Is it just cosmetic or do
    they differ in construction and/or equipment ?
      I know these models are very much sought after by professionals
    and people in the know and that they fetch ridiculosly high prices!
    I also know that these people make a definate distinction between
    the three models, but ( this is where I start feeling foolish )
    I've studied pictures of the '57 and '62 models quite closely
    and can't really see any major difference between them !
    
      I understand that Fender are going to issue an "Eric Clapton"
    Strat. Is this going to be the same as Clapton's famous Strat
    " Blackie " and what model is " Blackie " '54 '57 '62 or
    other ??
    
    			thanks in advance,
    
    			Yours in the dark
    
    				John
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241.1BlackieCSSE::CLARKwear your love like headphonesWed May 13 1987 13:4516
    re: Blackie
    
    In a GP interview last year, Clapton said Blackie is really made
    up of parts of several old Strats. He said he was in some music
    store in 69 or so and the guy had a ton of old strats and teles
    for 100 bucks apiece, so he bought them all. Blackie is made up
    of parts of those. 
    My understanding is that the Fender EC strat will have some kind
    of on-board compression or chorus. It was written up in the recent
    GP issue on the NAMM convention.
    
    The difference between the old Fenders has to do with (among other
    things) the shape and feel of the necks. Some gurus will fill in
    more detail here, I'm sure.
    
    -Dave
241.2To add my 2-cents-worthIOSG::CREASYClose the Curtains, Geoffrey, I'm AmphibiousWed May 13 1987 14:2315
    RE:-1
    
    Yup, that's what I heard about Blackie, too...
    
    
    As for different vintages of Strat, the most obvious difference
    is the design of scratch plate (honestly!). On the 57 (?) ones,
    they're a single thickness of plastic, with (n) screws, on later
    ones, they're a laminated white/black pickguard with (n+2?) screws...
    
    
    Now that you're none the wiser...
    
    
    Nick
241.3neck mountingLYMPH::LAMBERTCharmed, I'm sure...Wed May 13 1987 14:305
   Wasn't there some point in Strat history that they changed from a "three
   screw" neck mounting to a "four screw" (or the other way around)?  Anyone
   know what model year(s) that change went into place?
   
   -- Sam
241.4Fingerboards, Pickguards and SunburstsAQUA::ROSTBut are they friendly spirits?Wed May 13 1987 19:3728
    
    OK, I'm no expert but correct me if I'm wrong...
    
    54 Strat...didn't know Fender made such an animal in the vintage
    series , Teles though
    
    57 Strat...maple fingerboard, non-laminated pickguard, two-color
    sunbursts
    
    62 Strat...rosewood fingerboard, laminated pickguard, three color
    sunbursts                
    
    All *vintage* models come with tweed cases as standard equipment.
    
    New US "standard" Strat...tremelo looks like the old one but has
    been redesigned (somehow),also some changes in neck(ads not specific
    here)...cheaper than vintage models
    
    Jap Strat...similar to US model but old-style tremelo and neck
    (whatever that means)
          
    As far as things like neck radius, pickup models, etc.  who knows.
    
    Fender couldn't make this more confusing if they tried to.
                         
    Maybe they will print a new catalog soon and actually show what
    they are and aren't making.  If you think this is bad, try to figure
    out what they are doing with *basses*.
241.5StwatocastersHAMSTR::PELKEYon information overloadWed May 13 1987 20:0633
	re: The necks...
	
    What a coincedence, I've been in the Strat Market myself for a few 
    years now.  Was real disapointed with anything made after 65.
    
    The older Strat necks, 54 especially, are a little chunkier than the later
    model issues.  Not fat mind you, just a little thick on the top
    half.  

    54 to 60 series Strats are up and over 1500 dollars.  Heavy price
    to pay for a guitar with 'DUDE' scratched on the back with a camp
    knife,  (no lie.  I'v seen some barbequed strats, and the guys
    usually want big bucks for them.)

    I was in Mr. C's in Marlboro, asking Jim if he knew where there
    were some decnet early 70 series around.
    
    He handed me a 54 Vintage Series Tokai.  Said close your eyes and
    try this.  I fell in complete love with it.  Bought it.  
    
    It is so close in sound  and feel that I was stunned.

    Fernadies makes a vintage series also, but it's not as good as the
    vintage Tokai.  Paid about 400 with the tweed case.  I couldn't
    live with 1500 dollars for a 25 year old, beat to snot, (as they
    usually are) fender.
    
    So, my advice to you is ,,, Check out the Tokai AST 54 series. 
    You'll be surprised.  I've had old strats, new strats, old teles,
    etc...  I hate to sound pompus but one thing I know about is the
    feel and sound of a strat.  I used to say, if it's not a pre-cbs,
    forget it.  How quickly I was proved wrong.
    
241.6MTBLUE::BOTTOM_DAVIDThu May 14 1987 14:0639
    A number of differences between the different years...many of them
    primarily comsmetic. Sahpe of the headstock etc.
    
    Necks: Necks vary widely from year to year and even within the same
    year....if your lucky enough to have a Kubricki neck on a early
    70's strat you've got a nice neck...at one time Fender made a "v"
    neck for strats....instead of being round on the back it was slightly
    pointed in the center of the back...thus the "v" neck..like my
    Washburn has...                        
    
    Neck mounting: 4 screws were used until '72-'73....Leo (under contract
    to CBS as a consultant) came up with the idea of a 3 hole neck mounting
    scheme that had the micro-tilt adjustment...essentially the neck
    is held on by 2 screws...the third holds the neck by bolting thru
    the body to a metal plate on the back of the neck..there is an
    allen wrench adjustment to set the tilt of the neck..doing away
    withthe shims used on the 4 screw mounted necks....making neck
    adjustment faster 'cuz you don't have to remove the neck to adjust
    it. Also making the neck easier to pull up and down becuse 2 screws
    can't hold it very well...if you don't power chord, slam the neck
    aroudn or move on stage this is no problem...me I always had trouble
    with this...I fixed my two fenders by shiming the neck so tight
    it had to be put in the body with a mallet....it doesn't move anymore.
    
    They've used differnet woods for the body over the years etc.
    
    The vintage reissues I've played have all been nice guitars. Can't
    speak for tokai, never played one....but I would not own a Fernandez
    based on the few that I've played.
    
    I have a '73 strat that I love...the neck supposidly is one of the
    Kubriki necks....it plays great and sounds great....although I did
    replace the pickups with hot stacks.
    
    Vintage strats are excpensive but obviously in Mass they go for
    much more than here.....but I still wouldn't pay 700-800 for an
    old strat....its not worth it to me.
    
    dave
241.7Fender Issues "Clapton" StratAQUA::ROSTFour strings are better than sixFri Jun 19 1987 15:3713
    
    Fender will be issuing an "Eric Clapton model" Strat soon, using
    a design by Fender's Dan Smith which Clapton is currently using,
    having replaced the legendary "Blackie".
    
    The Strat will have a V-shaped neck, similar to '57 vintage models,
    three Alnico II magnet pickups and (!!) active electronics.
    
    The three knobs will be master volume, TBX (active tone control)
    and a mid boost to give a humbucker-like tone.
    
    Price will be somewhere over $1000.
241.8I wanna black left handed strat!ERASER::BUCKLEYNo Substitute for ArroganceFri Jun 19 1987 19:207
    re -1:
    
    Do you know if they plan to offer a left handed version of that??
    
    Would be neat...
    
    WJB
241.9Anyone know?COLORS::BUSENBARKFri Jun 19 1987 20:544
	I wonder if the active electronics are the same as what is sold
by EMG which offers a prewired strat setup/pickguard with midrange boost.Which
are the same electronics that Larry Carlton use's in his Valley Art's electric 
guitars.(strat style)
241.10Clapton model will have Fender electronicsAQUA::ROSTFour strings are better than sixMon Jun 22 1987 12:517
    
    Re: -.9
    
    The article was not specific but suggested the circuit was of Fender
    design rather than purchased outside. 
    
    
241.11Happy strat owner's commentsGLIND1::VALASEKMon Jun 22 1987 21:3668
    My own two cents......
    
    I would offer this : rather than buy a strat for 1) the model year or 
    2) vintage re-issue or 3) the fact the Robert Cray uses an American
    Standard Strat or 4) they are going to make a Clapton "blackie"
    copy,  Buy a strat that FEELS RIGHT !   I have played some vintage
    re-issues that can't hold a candle to my 84 strat.  On the other
    hand, I have played some new strats that feel better than my 84.
    As most of you already know, Strats bought in late 84 were made
    in Japan. I have no complaints, and I am happy with it.
    
    Yes indeed, I am as sentimental as the next guy, and I like Clapton
    and Cray, but let's face it. A Fender marketing ploy is no reason
    to run out and buy a new strat or whatever. Now if you find a "blackie"
    strat that feels good or a Robert Cray-American standard, 
    BUY IT !  I certainly would, and you would get the best of both
    worlds. However, I would try and compare all models of strat that
    you can find (and like) and pick the best one, Japanese models
    included.
    
    I do know though that some new Fender strats are coming equipped
    with an actual Kahler tremolo system. Before they used some kind
    of tremolo that "kind of" looked like a Kahler, but I am not sure
    who the actual manufacturer was. I have also played an American 
    Standard Strat and I like it very much. Much more than some vintage 
    re-issues I have played. But this is my OPINION, and I have certainly 
    NOT tried all the vintage re-issues available.   
    
    This is what I think Fender is up to :
    
    1. Strats made in U.S. prior to 1984 were too expensive, Fender
    had to address a couple of issues. Find a cheaper way to manufacture
    strats and compete with the strat copies. Enter Fender Japan and
    Squire made by Fender Japan. In late 84 you could buy a Fender Japan
    strat for 350.00 and a Squire strat for 250.00.
    
    2. So now Fender is making Japanese strats, but wait, people want
    that vintage U.S.A. Fender so enter re-issues made in U.S.A. Now
    prior to that, there were available vinatage re-issues made in Japan.
    But I don't believe they were ever made available in the U.S.A.
    
    3. The U.S.A. issue doesn't go away, blues is coming back. What
    better time to manufacture a new American Standard Strat that
    is personally endorsed by an upcoming blues guitarist (Robert Cray).
    He even plays it on the video "Right next door". Now this model
    comes in right at 499.00 retail, still affordable and the same as
    the list price on the Japanese strats. The difference is that the
    Japanese strats have the system I tremolo and American standard
    has a "new revolutionary" design tremolo without the locking nut.
    This design is supposed to solve tuning problems associated with
    the vinatage tremolo design.
    
    4. Now since Clapton is kind of "hot" right now and he has retired
    "blackie", what a neat time to come out with yet another endorsed
    Fender model. 
    
    You've got to hand it to Fender, they are marketing-wise. I think
    they learned a lesson from history. Remember when CBS took over
    Fender ? Well soon after that, Strat sales sagged and the future
    looked a little bleak. Enter Jimi Hendrix, all of a sudden strat
    sales pick up, then comes Ritchie Blackmore, Eric Clapton who switched
    from Gibson,  etc. etc. etc. and the story continues.....
    
    I know this is long, but it's hard to stop when you are on a roll....
    
    Thanks for indulging me,
    
    Tony
241.12BAXTA::BOTTOM_DAVIDFri Jul 10 1987 16:406
    re: active electronics
    
    The THX or whatever it is called is a Fender circuit, included in
    the past on the elite series of strats and tele's
    
    dave
241.13Strat Mania in GPAQUA::ROSTThe old fart was breathing freelyTue Jul 14 1987 17:566
    
    The latest issue of Guitar Player has a cover story, "Strat Mania"
    which among other things goes into great detail as to what the various
    differences were in the Strat from 54 to 64.  The most interesting
    part is that there were a lot of oddball variations that were never
    fully documented.  The article is a must read for Strat lovers.
241.14MTBLUE::BOTTOM_DAVIDNot so famous rock starMon Sep 14 1987 10:329
    I don't know if you're still shopping but I wanted to say that I
    finally played a couple of ESP strats. One was the very basic strat
    copy, it was a good guitar nothing to write home about...the other
    was more top of the lineish, it had EMG pickups (1 humbucking two
    single coil) a Floyd rose tremelo bar very fancy finish, cherry
    sunburst with a rosewood neck. This guitar I like very much..so
    much that I'm considering where I can get the $800 to buy it....
    
    dave
241.15E.C. Strat Opinion!SALEM::ABATELLIOn the dark side of the moonThu Dec 15 1988 20:1512
    
    	I tried the E.C. Strat today at Music Workshop in Salem, N.H.
    The neck was alot wider than my 1969 Strat and was "v" shaped as
    well. Quite a different animal actually! Not a bad guitar, just
    different. The price shock the pants off me though! $1050. w/case!!!
    
    My opinion? Nice guitar, but for that price, I'd have a hard time 
    justifing its purchase. True, the tone is very good. Different from
    my old Strat, but not a really BIG difference. Not $1050. worth
    of difference! JMO remember!  
                           
    Fred
241.16DNEAST::BOTTOM_DAVIDEveryday I got the bluesFri Dec 16 1988 11:006
    this was the new one with the new pickups? I'm interested in these
    new pickups as they are supposed to be quite good...
    
    anybody know anything about the pickups?
    
    dbii
241.17here's a start!VIDEO::BUSENBARKFri Dec 16 1988 11:5110
    	The pickup's are called Lace Golden sensors and they can be
    found on the Fender Strat Plus also. I've heard they are available
    individually,but I have not heard any price information. They do
    not have quite the edge that the american std strat has.
    	BTW, I was also told that Fender did not develope the TBX tone
    circuitry and the pickup's were a variation of another company's
    pickup.....
    	The difference between the electronics of a Strat Plus and a
    EC Model is in an active preamp in the EC model. A Strat Plus would
    would be a good addition to any strat collection.
241.18what about the woodCECV01::COCONISFri Jun 09 1989 18:353
     How come nobodys mentioned the aging process of the wood for the
    "57" sound.  This brings to life the sound of the guitar, and "what
    a sound"!! The Guitar screams!!!!!!