Conference napalm::guitar

    Hello Hossein,
    
    What a pleasent suprise to find your note this morning ! I've been
    thinking of putting out a similar request for a few months. I didn't
    do it, partly out of laziness and partly because I wasn't sure which
    conference to put the note in. In the end, this is probably as
    appropriate as any.
    
    I've been trying to play the flamenco guitar for about 2 years.
    I've never really played any other style, and find it difficult
    even to follow a jazz/modern chord accompagniment since most of
    the music I have is written in cifra.

    I've never had lessons because I've never been able to find a teacher.
    This is my biggest problem. I can't help thinking that some of the
    raseguados that I desperately fail to get would be so much easier
    if I could see someone playing them. Alone it took me about 1 year to
    get the tremolo !
    
    At first I had a classical guitar which was much too heavy and too
    wide. Recently I have picked up a flamenco guitar which, though
    not qualitatively equivalent to my classical guitar, is thinner,
    lighter and has a much drier sound. Now at least I can play it in
    the right position. As far as Europe is concerned, it is practically
    impossible to buy a real flamenco guitar outside Spain. I've been
    trying (in Bruxelles and Nice) for a year. BTW where are you ?
    
    
    Good records are also very difficult to get hold of. Pena, Soler
    and Serranito can be found. If you're looking for Montoya, Ricardo
    Melchor de Marchena etc., you've got to be very lucky indeed. I did find,
    however, Nina de los Peines singing her Petenera accompanied by
    Ricardo. That made all the searching worthwhile. I also have soleares
    by Aurelio Selles and El Terremoto on a Hispavox "Por Solea" album.
    I'm still searching for a recording (anything!) for which I have
    the cifra falseta. 

    The conclusion that I'm rapidly arriving at is - If you're interested
    in Flamenco, you've got to go to Spain ! One day ....
    
    Let's keep this note going.
    
    Tim Gallagher
                            

    Re .0 and .1:
    
    I've always been interested in the differences between flamenco
    and classical music and guitars.  For those of us who lack an
    understanding of the differences, could one or both of you explain?
    
    Thanks,
    
    John R. Kelly
    
                 

    The classical guitars are heavier than Flamenco guitars; a typical
    classical guitar sounds very clear with no buzz.  Flamenco guitars
    are very light(some luthiers still make them with tunning pegs rather
    than machine heads to keep them light)so the player could easily
    hold the guitar and play in sitting or standing position.  Flamenco
    guitars have a little buzz, the strings respond quickly and are
    capable of playing solo and/or accompony singers and dancers without
    any amplification in a small to medium(200 people)size club.
    

    The difference between classical and flamenco guitars is a very
    emotional subject in some places. Whatever one says is bound to
    make someone violently disagree. This is how I see the situation
    from the books I have read and the guitars I have seen.
    
    Before the 1930s, there was the Spanish guitar which included both
    what we now call the classical guitar and the flamenco guitar. People
    in the US started to refer to the classical guitar more to distinguish it
    from the steel-stringed guitar than from the flamenco guitar.
    Most of the great Spanish guitar makers made both models e.g. Santos
    Hernandez and Esteso. The conclusion being that the differences
    are subtle, and that the guitars are merely different versions of each
    other.
    
    However, it is undeniably true that flamenco sounds better on a
    flamenco guitar.
    
    A flamenco guitar is natural wood on all sides, varnished to give
    it a light golden colour. Its back is flat, made of hard cypress
    (Honduras Cypress is best). The front is made of 'Pino Bete', a
    pine or fir imported from Germany.....The Classical guitar is somewhat
    heavy, the flamenco as light as possible...Until recently, flamenco
    guitars used simple wooden pegs [on head] called 'clavijas' because
    flamenco guitarists used to believe that a good guitar should have
    no metal in it. In playing the classical guitar is rested, by the
    waist, on the thigh, and needs a stool. The flamenco is lifted up
    onto the thigh, and kept in position by the RIGHT ELBOW ALONE. The
    tones of the two instruments are very different. Flamenco guitarists
    use the 'cejilla', a small device made of horn, ivory wood or plastic,
    that fits onto the fingerboard. It is held in place by a gut or
    nylon string...It raises the whole tuning of the guitar to any key
    desired.
    
    OR The construction is very similar although the body is much narrower.
    The principal difference lies in the fact that the back and sides
    are of Spanish Cypress which sacrifices the profundity of the classical
    guitar sound to volume of sound. The front is made of spruce.
    
    It has been claimed that the pegs make changing strings much quicker.
    
    Many flamenco guitars leave the workshop with golpeadors fitted.
    These are the plastic plaques above and below the rosace which protect
    the wood from the golpe attacks (tapping the guitar with the fingernail).
                                                                             
    The strings are set much lower on a flamenco guitar facilitating
    a much quicker left-hand play, especially in ligado. The neck is often
    narrower.
    
    Finally, it has been argued that the construction of a flamenco
    guitar is cheaper than that of a classical guitar. In Spain,
    a first guitar is almost always a flamenco guitar for this reason.
    The dry sound is, therefore, a result of the guitar being quite
    simply of an inferior quality. There may be some truth in this.
    However, it must be remembered that the flamenco guitar is above
    all an instrument for accompaniment. It's original raison d'etre
    was to furnish a strong loud pulsating rythmn WITHOUT drowning
    the singer. If it is a matter of price, and the popular origins
    of this instrument, then these factors have influenced the development
    of the art, and no longer apply in the same way.

    What sort of strings do people use ?  I use Savarez high-tension
    strings (red), and use the plastic-wound-on-nylon variety for the three
    high strings. The girl in my music shop told me that most of the
    people who play flamenco substitute a wire-wound string for 3 (G)
    in place of the usual nylon or plastic-wound. Anyone ever heard
    of this ?

    Do people use a real cejilla or the more modern capo ? I use a cejilla
    but am becoming increasingly annoyed as the nylon string that holds
    it in place is always breaking !
    

    Savarez high_tention are great for treble strings (1,2 and 3). 
    Some people use wire-wound string for 3rd string to produce a more
    sad and deep sound(typical Flamenco).  However, I do not recommand
    it because wounded 3rd string wares out much quicker than 4th string.
     In other words only two days of good quality sund.
    
    I would rather use a modern capo because it is easier to use, last
    longer, does not have a tendency to come off and do not have to
    worry about changing the band on it.
    

    Looks like no one has accessed this in a long time.  I am a
    guitarist lucky enough to have stumbled upon the music of the late,
    renowned gypsy guitarist Diego del Gastor, from Moron de la Frontera.
                                                        
    Diego was one of those rare personalities who are devoted to the
    art itself and to the quality of the emotional experience, without
    ambition or pretention.  Indifferent to the development of the
    commercial flamenco style, Diego maintained forgotten ways of playing
    while at the same time developing an original style that is immediately
    recognizeable. He spent his life playing for juergas in and around
    Moron, refusing invitations to go to Madrid, New York, etc, and finally
    becoming internationally famous (to his own dislike!) in the decade
    before his death in 1973. 
    
    He was an incredible accompanyist capable of bringing
    out the best in a singer (he was the preferred accompanist of Fernanda
    de Utrera, undoubtedly the best cantaora por solea alive today),
    and excelled particularly in the old Moron style of the gypsy toques
    Siquiriyas, Solea and Bulerias. Diego's bulerias al golpe are
    completely different from the modern style a la Paco de Lucia,
     and are incredibly lyrical in melody and emotional in aire.
    
    While no records of Diego are available, since he avoided notoriety
    (and chances to make $) like the plague, a number of bootleg cassettes
    can be found, if you know people who know people who know people
    who knew Diego. In addition, Diego reluctantly recorded a program
    for spanish TV shortly before his death. The program, part of a
    100 part series on flamenco, has recently been obtained by the music
    department of Columbia University. These programs are an outstanding
    resource for anyone interested in flamenco.  Diego can also be heard
    accompanying Fernanda de Utrera and her sister, Bernarda de Utrera,
    on programs which are part of the same series.  
    
    Fortunately, Diego's style was passed on to his four nephews, whom
    he taught: Paco del Gastor, Juan del Gastor, Dieguito Torres "de
    Moron" and Agustin Rios, (of which Paco, Dieguito and Agustin are
    outstanding in their own right).  Agustin, from whom I learned, now teaches
    in California.  Like Diego, Agustin lives in relative
    obscurity because of his indifference to commercial notoriety, but
    is a man whose simplicity, humor, humility and generosity belie 
    that he is one of the best and most knowledgeable flamenco 
    musicians in the U.S. and the world, being intimately familiar with
    the subtleties of the guitar, cante and baile, all of which he teaches. 
                                                                            
    Diego, his family, and Diego's music are discussed in several
    excellent books written (in english!) by Donn Pohren: "The Art of
    Flamenco", "Lives and Legends of Flamenco" and "A Way of Life".
    In addition, over the past several years I have been putting Diego
    and Agustin's music into a form of high quality cifra (tablature)
    which I find more readable than music notation.  This music will
    hopefully soon be published in book form.
    
    In the meantime, anyone wishing to discuss, learn or play flamenco (or
    trade tapes), please contact me or put a note in the file.
    
    Great to see someone open a topic on this! Thanks Houssein!
    
    Eso Es!
    Theo 
             
        
    
    
    
    
    
    

    Theo, what a pleasure to hear more about flamenco!
    I had read and talked about the great master Diego Del Gastor several
    times.  I enjoyed reading your reply a lot.
    The other people which I care a lot about knowing and learning their
    styles are Nino Ricardo(died 1972)and Luis Maravilla.  As Juan Martin
    says "Nino Ricardo was so creative that each time he played was
    his newest and latest variations".
    I have exchanged flamenco music(mostly on tablature)among my friends
    and interested people.  I am looking forward to play more of Diego Del
    Gators music. In return I can provide music by Sabicas, Luis Maravilla,
    Monolo Sanlucar, Paco De Lucia, etc.
    
    I can be reached at COMET::BEYZAVI or flamenco notes.  Keep up the
    good work! Thanks to Theo again.
                                    Hossein
    

I have just come back to the net after a long absence. The first thing I did was
to check out note 214 in this conference. It's great to see that it's still
ticking over. It would be nice though if someone set up a flamenco conference.
Guitar isn't really the right place since it's a mistake to separate the guitar
from the cante and baile.

Anyway, I have a question that I've been wondering about for some time. Who uses
the little finger of the right hand when playing rasgueado ? A year ago I
studied with Marquito Velez who has studied with Paco de Lucia and Sanlucar. He
told me that the little finger is never used. Now I am studying with Antonio Paz
and he insists that the little finger is used. Juan Martin and Paco Pena, in
their guitar methods, both agree that the little finger is used. I find it much
easier not to use the little finger but I also find that you can quickly lose
compas this way. What does everybody else think/do ?

    I'm not in your league, but I use the little finger (guy who showed
    me how in a bar in Valencia in 1973 did it that way).  Seems to
    me you're looking for the fullest of sunds with the rasgueado, so
    the more fingers the better.
    
    - Evan

    
    	In my past life of classical student I had a real stickler of
    a tutor.  He used to rap my knuckles with a ruler if I got lax on
    my technique.  It's funny though, he never got too upset over my
    technique on flamenco compass as he regareded it rough gypsy music & 
    provided I got the feeling into it he was happy.  I switched from 3 to 4
    fingers & back depending on tempo & volume & didn't get hit so I
    guess either is correct.
    
    	Pete_who_aint_played_spanish_in_years_hombres

    REPLY .9
    It sure is nice to talk about flamenco again.  Most of the flamenco
    guitar players do not use little finger.  There are number of reasons;
    rasgueado becomes too messy, you can create better sounding rasgueado
    without using 4th finger, using the 4th finger would effect the
    right hand technique on many 12 beats patterns .
    
    I have been impressed by Peter Baime techniques in Jaloeo magazine,
    he always shows different right hand techniques using P,I,M,A
    Again, it was a pleasure to hear from you.  If you have any other
    question, reply to the note 214 or send me message to COMET::BEYZAVI
                                                          SINCERELY
                                                          HOSSEIN BEYZAVI
    

    You've heard of film scoring...well try building scoring!
    
    Seriously, I have to write a piece of music around a certain building
    in the Boston area!  The building is spanish in design.  Anyone out
    there recommend any specific keys or modes that would help get me
    started in the right genre?!?
    
    Thanks in advance,
    Buck

    Spanish Phrygian!

    Steal something from Villa-Lobos. He's full of great sounding
    guitaristic tricks.

    Who?!?

    
    
Buck, Everything you always wanted to know...  You should go out today,
    no, NOW, and get a recording of his Guitar Concerto. Buy that
    instead of the latest from this week's hottest shredder.
    
Heitor Villa-Lobos was born in Rio in 1887. Died sometime in the 1950's,
I think. He made a brief attempt at studying at a conservatory, but was 
largely self taught. Most of his influence in composition came from
Brazillian popular music. When he starting writing music, it was in
a popular style. He played in theater and restaurant orchestras and
listened and studied tribal chants in Barbados. He made trips into
the interior of Brazil to study the music of different regions and
primitive cultures.

He was "discovered" by Artur Rubinstein, while he was on a tour of Brazil
in 1919. Rubinstein heard some interesting music at a movie house and sought
out Villa-Lobos to tell him how much he liked it. A few days later
Villa-Lobos brought a small orchestra to his hotel room and gave him a
private concert of his music.

Rubinstein used his influence to get a government grant for Villa-Lobos
to study in Paris, which he did from 1923-1926, and also from 1927
to 1930. The purpose of the visit was to study French musical culture. 
A few quotes from Villa-Lobos will give you an idea about his attitude 
though.

"I listened attentively, but never allowed myself to be influenced by any 
of the novelties I heard. I claim to be all myself, and I conceive my music 
in complete independence and isolation."

"Did you think I cam here to absorb your ideas?" "I came here to show you
what I've done. If you don't like what I do, I'm going away."

Evidently he was successful, because they had a Villa-Lobos festival in
Paris in 1927.

When he returned to Brazil from Paris in 1930 or 31 he was made Brazil's
Director of Musical Education. Since he was not formally educated musically
himself, he had some unorthodox approaches to musical education.

He developed a method of teaching kids sight singing by using the position
of fingers to indicate the degree of a scale. He had kids singing in choruses
and encouraged them to stamp, hiss, whistle, shout, and clap, and he
wrote special music just for these choruses. Some of it was just 
vocalizations on a single vowel or consonant. He led them with flags,
rather than a baton. He also greatly aroused the consiousness of
kids (and everybody else) to Brazillian popular music.

He came to the U.S. in the 40's. By this time he was considered Brazil's
greatest composer. He had guest appearances with major orchestras. He was
commisioned to write music by Koussevitsky.

He's somewhat famous for doing things like making sketches of the New York
Skyline, or a mountain range in Brazil, and making a melody out of the
rise and fall of the line on a piece of graph paper. He wrote a good
deal of music, about 1500 works. He was reportedly careless about
manuscripts and publishing his own music though.

Most his music is in two forms which he created himself.

Bachiana Brasileira - A suite in which Bach's contrapuntal style is 
                      combined with basic elements of Brazillian folk
                      music.

Choros - A street song which emphasizes popular rhythms and melodies.

The Choros has varied instrumentation. Some of them are for solo
instruments (guitar or piano); some are for orchestra; some for chorus;
some for different chamber music combinations.
	
The point of all this is that one of the instruments he taught
himself was the guitar, and he wrote a good deal of guitar music.
He wasn't a great performer but the guitar music he wrote is among the
most idiomatic around. It sounds good and falls nicely on the guitar
without feeling awkward or impossible to play. That's what I meant
by guitaristic. His 5 preludes are very popular with beginning
guitarists because they sound great and are not so intimidating
to learn. (I wouldn't call them easy though)

Some of his guitar music includes:  5  Preludes
                                    12 Etudes
				    Suite Populaire Brisilienne (Sp?)
				    Various Choros
				    Guitar Concerto

He also wrote a lot of stuff for full orchestra, and a lot of stuff for
piano. One of his best known pieces of music is the 
"Bachiana Brasileira No. 5". It's for soprano and 8 cellos.

    In spite of what he said about being in France you do hear a lot
    of impressionistic influence in his music. If you haven't heard
    the "Guitar Concerto", I highly recommend it.

re:. .-1

	Any recommended recordings?

I've got a couple of old albums by a spanish gypsy named Sabaccus (sp?) who is
quite awesome at flamenco...one of the albums is named "a day at the bullfight"
I forget the name of the other...these are early '60's recordings...and yet
this dude smokes!

dbii

    The recording I have is an old record, with Andre Previn and the
    London Symphony. Julian Bream is the guitarist. You'd have to
    check the Schwann catalog though. There's probably newer ones.
    
    Bob
    
    ps. Was on RCA
    
    I've got an old Sabicus tape too; the guy is (was?) great. Villa-Lobos
    has some stereotypical "spanish" sounds but is not flamenco.

    I've always regarded Villa-Lobos as the "missing link" between
    "classical guitar" and "spanish guitar".
    
    My favorite interpretations of Villa-Lobos are all by Narcisso
    Yppes - I have three of his recordings and love each one and would
    pay DEARLY to get them on CD (I can only seem to find him on cassette).

    Helo every one:
    I am the one that started this topic about 5 years ago under my friends
    name(I used to be a temporary employee).  I haven't written anything
    lately.  I was on training for a while, please accept my apologies
    Jaleo magazine (published in San Diego, California) has different
    guitar music most of the times.  I have used that.  Some times they
    have like a sheet of music written in tablature form.  There is a
    person named Peter Baime in Malwaukee, Wisconsin that writes and 
    tranposes music for flamenco guitar.  If you need further information,
    send me a mail message to BALMER::BEYZAVI             
                                            Regards,
                                            Hossein Beyzavi
                                                     
    
    

    My brother-in-law let me borrow this incredible CD this week and I
    can't stop listening to it.  It's sort of a modern flamenco style in a
    band setting.  It's Ottmar Liebert's "Borrasca," which I'm told was
    nominated for a Grammy back in '91.  It's on the Higher Octave Music
    label.  If you like this style, I'm sure you'll love this CD.
    
    Mike