Conference napalm::guitar

    It's supposed to reduce tension on the neck.
    
    However, I think a lot of the tonal quality of the guitar is lost
    when it is tuned down to D. I have used a regular E tuning on my
    12 string for four years, and the neck is still straight as an arrow.
    
    -Dan
    

    It depends somewhat on the guitar. Early 12-strings, like the
    one played by Huddie Ledbetter (Leadbelly), who popularized the
    instrument, needed to be tuned four or more frets low. In the
    past I've had my Martin at full tension, but generally keep it
    at one tone down because I found the octave G (the thinnest string)
    had a tendency to break at full tension; I also like the ability
    to get a lower tone by playing without a capo.
    

Hello,
    
              I was just over Macduff's Music in White City (Shrewsbury),
    looking over their guitars. Started talking to him about how they
    tune a 12 string. A Guild 12 string was for sale which caught my
    eye. The salesman told me that this Guild (d12-25) has *two* truss
    rods in the neck. This makes standard tuning no problem (e-a-d-g-b-e).
    
                            Marc

   2 rods are great for the neck, but you can still pull the bridge up,
   or warp the top...

   -- Sam

    GREETINGS ,
    
                    I assume if Guild strengthens the neck that they
    would also do the same for the bridge and top, but you never know...
    
                                  marc

    Guilds are pretty sturdy. If you heft a Guild and a comparable
    Martin, the Guild outweighs it by a noticable margin. The style of
    bracing under the soundboard has a considerable influence on the
    tone of the instrument, which probably accounts for the difference
    (no value judgements!) in tonal quality between different guitars. 

    
    	I own a guild twelve string and would never tune it up to an
    E. A twelve string is not the same instrument as a six string, there
    for the tuning is different. The pressure from six extra strings
    is suppose to be an unbelieveable strain on the bridge. I don't
    suppose it would matter if you tuned it up for a day,but why take
    the chance. I have seen a twelve string yamaha in a music shop that
    had bowed out the wood. The bridge held fine but it actually pulls
    the wooden body right up. 
    
    	I'm not saying people don't do it, I'm just saying I wouldn't
    cause I have seen. Some people just don't care ya know? buy another
    one when this one breaks... If you can do this then fine. 
    Your car will probably run fine on 2 quarts of oil even if your
    suppose to have five in it.... I put in the five just in case...
    
    	Maybe not a good example but you get the point!!!!!
    
    				Later,
    				B.G.
    

    Trying to preserve the instrument by lowering the tuning pitch probably
    works, but I think you lose so much brilliance that it's not worth
    it.  
                                           
    Regards,
    Johnny Jupiter
    

    The reason for my question is that I have nearly always tuned my
    12 year old Ibanez to E (because it sounds better as was said
    previously). However, I have taken to tuning it down now because
    the bridge has started to bow the body up thus raising the overall
    action. I invariably use a capo on the second fret to bring it back
    up to E.
    
    Richar Briggs
    UK SWAS
    

    Hmm,, I haven't read all replies, but I always thought the
    theory behind down tuning was to take the tension of the
    tail peice ?????????????  Thoughts ?
    

    Take the tension of the tailpiece?  Please explain yourself...
    
    Sorry, I guess I'm a few seasons late.
    
    I own an Ibanez Artist 12-String, and usually play it ebgdae.  However,
    I've been complaining to myself forever about the action.  It seems
    that no one has mentioned this so far, I thought it was the main
    reason for tuning down!  At standard tuning, I often find it difficult,
    if not impossible (especially if I haven't played 12 in a while),
    to play for more than 10 minutes without cringing in pain due to
    the extra amount of pressure the hand must apply to get crisp sounds.
    I've adjusted the rod many times, but as soon as I string it up,
    there's the same old problem again.  Maybe all those years of tight
    storage have actually damaged the neck, I dunno.  Anybody else have
    this problem?
    
    Jon
    

    It has been said that 12 strings, tune to A 440, puts so much
    tension on the tailpiece that it will, in time, break it. It has
    also been said that Yamaha are known for having this problem.
    
    I have a Yamaha which I tune to A 440, and I have not had this
    problem. The guitar is about 11 years old. I used xtra light strings
    and I do put the tension down when I am going to be playing for
    a while.
    
    I did adjust the action to this guitar and it made a world of
    difference. 
    

    	Also try tuning down a half step and putting a capo on the first
    fret...(which makes A=440 again, but your action will be slightly
    lower, and easier to play.) when you are done remove the capo for
    storage at a lessened tension.
    					Tom T.
   

	I thought the A string on a guitar was more like 110.00Hz.....

	That's 2 octaves below "reference" 

    Divide the numbers shown in .15 by 4 and you'll be closer to the truth.
    
    A freq counter is a poor way to tune an instrument. It is too
    sensitive to small irregularities like beats and overtones, so it can
    be frustrating to use. Electronic tuners are designed to average these
    variations out and smooth the display. Additionally, counters tend to
    be inaccurate at the low frequencies involved, unless you use period
    measurement, or a long time base.
    
    A $60 tuner is a better way to do it.
    
    DannY W.

    
  Thanks to .16/.17 for picking up my mistake.....as noted in those replies
    the counter should be capable of measuring the period/or period
    averaging.When I copied the hz scale I shifted a few octaves the first
    time around.
    
    
       Just in case you have a Freq counter to measure the oscillation rate
    of the strings...here are the open frequencies of each string of a 6/12
    string guitar.
    
                 6 string                12 string
    
               E = 82.407 hz             E = 82.407 hz ,E har = 164.81 hz
      
               A = 110.00 hz             A = 110.00 hz ,A har = 220.00 hz
    
               D = 146.83 hz             D = 146.83 hz ,D har = 293.66 hz
    
               G = 196.00 hz             G = 196.00 hz ,G har = 392.00 hz
    
               B = 246.94 hz             B = 246.94 hz  both strings  
    
               E = 329.63 hz             E = 329.63 hz both strings
    
    
                    Hope this helps....
    
                               R.B.