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Conference napalm::guitar

Title:GUITARnotes - Where Every Note has Emotion
Notice:Discussion of the finer stringed instruments
Moderator:KDX200::COOPER
Created:Thu Aug 14 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:3280
Total number of notes:61432

171.0. "Bass amps and tubes" by RICKS::CALCAGNI () Tue Feb 18 1986 18:17

    In the tradition of "Bass Strings" from the MUSIC conference, here's
    another topic that'll bore 90% of you.  My apologies.
    
    As far as guitar amps go, there's a distinctive difference between
    tubes and solid state.  Each sound has it's uses, and a lot of people
    (me included) tend to prefer the 'tube' sound.  Tube amps are a hassle
    though.  I play bass, and to me there's just no reason for going
    tubes over solid state in bass amps.  Tubes are heavier, more
    expensive(?), more susceptible to road shock, and in general less
    reliable than solid state.  And I don't hear much difference.
    
    Any comments?
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
171.1STOWMA::LANGETue Feb 18 1986 19:087
    Tubes heavier!!!you got that right.
    I have a SVT head. 80+lbs.sounds good.(tube)
    Then there's a Marshall 200wt power amp,and an Ashly preamp I'm
    scoping out. Also sounds really good.(solid state)and weighs about
    50 lbs less.and is rack mountable+++
    
    Jeff_also_a_bass_player_and_wants_a_compact_unit
171.2Boogie tube bass ampFLOWER::JASNIEWSKISun Feb 23 1986 16:228
    
    	However MESA engineering claims that their tube bass amp has
    more dynamic range than ANY solid state unit - even with twice
    the RMS power. I dont know why they can make this claim...
    Anyone else know??
    
    	Joe Jas
    
171.3I LOVE my Peavey (and my PV too!)HAVOC::MOSSMon Feb 24 1986 11:4120
    I have got a Peavy MegaBass amp which is solid state. It's the best
    amp I could (not!) afford when I was looking around. As far as tonal
    quality is concerned, I seem to be able to get any sound I want,
    so long as I can imagine the sound (so far) it seems to be in there
    somewhere - the only problem is finding it. It doesn't weigh much
    at all (the cab makes up for that tho), it's very compact, rack
    mountable, got an n-band eq, chorus and crossover built in. I think
    it is a very good amp, for me at least. Maybe it just suits my
    particular bass very well, don't know. I love it.
    		There again, I haven't played for donkey's years, I
    only listened to half a dozen or so alternatives, and in any case,
    I probably wouldn't know a good bass amp if it stood up and bit
    me. Last time I was playing regularly, 10+ years ago, I had an
    H & H solid state head which, back then, I thought was a pretty
    good amp for the money (don't ask, I can't remember - must have
    been pretty cheap tho').
    I'm very happy with mine anyway - but I wouldn't take anything I
    say seriously, I don't know my a** from my elbow when it comes to
    things like this.
    Charles.
171.4What does rack mountable mean?CHAPLN::LAMBERTDrowning man, seeking anchorMon Feb 24 1986 14:1717
re. -1

gee charles, in this world of ours where everything is relative, and
wishy-washy nerds like ziggy become national heros - it's really good
to hear from a man who really has the courage of his convictions and
isn't afraid to stand up and speak out for what he believes in...

i think...

8^))  8^))  8^))  8^))  8^))  8^))  8^))  8^))  8^))  8^))  8^))  8^))

but seriously,

when you (or anyone else) say your amp is rack mountable, does that mean that
it conforms to some ANSI size standard?

-max- 
171.5That old tube controversy again?AQUA::ROSTTue Mar 10 1987 13:1834
    Just thought I'd throw in my two cents worth at this late date on
    the tube vs. transistor debate.  For bass, the story is alot different
    than for guitar.  On guitar, there is no doubt that tubes provide
    superior distortion characteristics although there are some solid-state
    units which do sound awfully good.
    
    With bass, the main difference is in DAMPING, that is how soon the
    speaker cone stops moving after the input stops and HEADROOM or
    how the amp will respond to an overload.
    
    Damping on tube amps tends to be poor, giving a muddy bottom end
    which some players like.  Listen to older (60's) type players and
    you can hear what I mean.  Modern styles prefer clean crisp bottom,
    which solid state definitely can deliver.  Yes, the speaker cab
    does get into the picture which is why an Acoustic 360 sounds muddy
    despite being transistors.  The muddy bottom can give the ILLUSION
    of more bottom end.
    
    The headroom question is one of how do you like your overdrive?
     On solid-state amops, as s oon as you overload the amp, it starts
    to give a raspy sound unless the amp uses FETs in the circuitry.
     Tubes will also overdrive, but smoothly in a way that sounds OK.
     This is why most bass rigs sold today have compressors and limiters.
     Anyone who has used a Peavey where an LED tells you when clipping
    is being prevented may be suprised to see how often the peak light
    comes on!  If the limiter was not there, that peak would distort.
    
    The result is that since tubes provide a "soft" distortion, they
    can be allowed to overdrive on peaks, providing more heradroom,
    i.e. they play louder.  For example , I use a Traynor TS120B which
    is 140 watts, solid state and a Bassman which is 50 watts, tube.  
    The Fender sounds just as loud although it tends to be muddier on the 
    bottom which is great for blues or reggae but not for funk.  Hope that 
    clears it up for you.
171.6SSL is the way to go!ERASER::BUCKLEYScreaming in DigitalTue Mar 10 1987 19:114
    Re -.1: I'll argue that some solid state units have `superier'
    distortion characteristics.
    
    WJB
171.7HAVE BOTH-WILL TRAVEL!HAMER::KRONMon Jul 17 1989 16:385
    GUESS WHAT?????!!!---CHICKEN-BUTT!!!; no but seriously, now you
    can have both; at the same time and it's footswitchable. just tried
    a Blue Tube today-and it sounds G-RRReat!!! -140$ and stomp box
    size,A.C powered. Definitely getting one!
    -Bill Kron/Peavey Devotee(but open minded!!)
171.8Where?AQUA::ROSTIt's the beat, the beat, the beatMon Jul 17 1989 18:216
    
    Curious as to where you found the Blue Tube in stock.  I've been
    interested in checking one out.  Did they have the rack version
    as well?
    
    							Brian
171.9<<<THE ROGUE"S GALLERY_OF COURSE!!>>>HAMER::KRONWed Jul 19 1989 14:256
    Brian, ROGUE MUSIC 30th street in NYC, has all varieties of the
    stomp-style unit but no rack-mounted units.....I put a deposit on
    the LAST BLUE TUBE yesterday. I also saw them at Sam Ash on 48th
    street (guitar heaven up there!!!!) Good luck finding one buddy!!
    -Bill (psyched-4-that-sound!)
171.10BLUE TUBE-THATS THE TICKET!HAMER::KRONKA-BOOMTue Aug 01 1989 13:307
     After a week of extensive testing........this blue tube gizmo is
    fantastic....fattens and warms up the sound much better than a chorus
    or any other pedal I've ever used. And you can distort the sound
    but still keep the bottom. Sounds very natural and un-effect-like
    Definitely strongly recommended to all!
    happy-bass!
    -Bill
171.11Bass Questions..DNEAST::GREVE_STEVEGreee Veee KingTue Jun 11 1991 22:2920
    
    
    
    	I'm still interested in hearing:
    
    
    	A. How you bass dudes get a manageable 4 ohm bass cab put together.
    
    	B. How much power would I need if I were to play out in clubs.
    	   I'm using a 50 watt bassman now into an 8 ohm single 15" Gauss
    	   cab, and I'm concerned that the bassman isn't happenin maximum 
    	   because it's looking for a 4 ohm load to push, but even if it
    	   was would it be enough power to deliver bass in a club setting.
    
    	So... how much power to "gig" out and how to get a compact, easy to
    carry bass rig would be my questions.  Bill, Bri, Joe, Tom, Rick, Tony,
    anybody???
    
    
    Gree Vee
171.12Bassman Is Fine With The Right CabinetRGB::ROSTLet me in to do the Popcorn!Wed Jun 12 1991 12:0133
    Re: .11
    
    One way to get a 4 ohm cab is have a 4 ohm speaker (duh...).  Anyway,
    Peavey sells 1-15 cabs that are 4 ohms. You might talk to your friendly
    speaker service center about having the voice coil in the Gauss
    changed to a 4 ohm coil.  
    
    In general, a Bassman will be adequate for small clubs but won't have a
    lot of dynamic headroom and will definitely *growl* when you drive it
    hard.  At volumes above 7 it will start to distort sweetly, if you like
    that kind of thing.  You really would want a 4 ohm load to get the full
    power of the head.  I used to use mine with either one of those 4 ohm
    Peaveys or a Traynor 8 ohm 1-15 in a C&W band and it was fine.  I've
    also used with an 8 ohm 1-15 EVM loaded cab in a blues band situation
    and that was OK, too although I was getting a reasonable amount of
    distortion (OK for blues, but someone who likes a crisp, ringing sound
    would have gagged at the tone).  I have even tried it with a 1-12 EVM
    cab at home and that would be enough for a lot of small gigs, too. With
    a larger 4 ohm cab (say 2-15, 4-10, 8-10) it will be loud enough for a
    lot of R&R situations, with the same disclaimer about the distortion.  
    
    The real question is how efficient are the cabs.  Think about a
    Marshall stack running two 4-12 cabs.  That's only 50 watts, and nobody
    complains about not getting enough volume. 
    
    As far as compact cabinets go, about the smallest 1-15 you can have
    would be the EV-type Thiele aligned cabs.  These are *very* efficient.
    You can get plans for these free from EV, you can build them yourself
    for about $30-40 including all the hardware, stuff in a good 4 ohm
    driver and you will have a compact but kick-butt setup using the
    Bassman for a head.  
    
    							Brian
171.134 ohm speakers???DNEAST::GREVE_STEVEGreee Veee KingWed Jun 12 1991 12:2319
    
    
    
    	No kidding, Brian.. all I've seen (but I've been sheltered) is 8
    and 16 ohm speakers.  As it turns out I'm going to have my Gauss looked
    at this week cos the dust cover is cracked and I could have the dude
    take a look at it then.  Good idea.. but my (substantial) gut says that
    staying with standard 8 ohm speaker cabs would be the way to go.  I dew
    have an EV12L cab, but I've been leary of wiring it in parallel with my
    Gauss.. afraid of damaging it...  The EV12L is made for guitar, right? 
    Wouldn't bass frequencies "blow it's little mind"?  If not, Proble
    solved.. I'll make up a patch cord that parallels my two cabs and that
    will provide the 4 ohms I need to load my Bassman with.  Right, Bri,
    huh? Right?
    
    BTW.. any new Rost originals out there on tape??
    
    Stevie Grevie (charter member rhyming name club)... heh, go for it,
    Buck!!  [;^)  Buck, Buck, Bo Buck, Bo NANA BANA Bo Buck...
171.14EVMs and The Quest For The Icepick ToneRGB::ROSTLet me in to do the Popcorn!Wed Jun 12 1991 12:4523
    The trick with the 12L is tuning the cab so that excursion of the voice
    coil is within safe limits.  No, you don't have to put a condom on
    the thing  8^)  8^)  I'm using mine with a 400w head as my bass rig at
    the old Hubcaps house gig.
    
    The cab I have is built to EV plans.  It can be tuned to either have a
    drastic rolloff at about 90 Hz or to have a smooth rolloff at about 160
    Hz.  At the same (flat) EQ, the smooth rolloff provides less low
    end...BUT...crank up the EQ at about 100 Hz, and the thing gets right
    on down to 60 Hz, no problem.  With the other tuning, the same boost
    will just cause the voice coil to bottom out (i.e. try to push the cone
    farther than it wants to go) and possibly damage the driver.  An open
    back cab is essentially untuned and would be even worse to use.
    
    Hope this explanation isn't getting into Mr. Wizard territory too much 
    8^)  8^)
    
    As far as originals, I got one new one on tape that might get a guffaw
    out of you, I've been too busy going to grad school to work on any more
    8;(  8;(   However, I have discovered how to get the "icepick from hell
    stuck right into your forehead" tone onto tape  8^)   8^)
    
    						Brian
171.15DNEAST::GREVE_STEVEGreee Veee KingWed Jun 12 1991 14:267
    
    
    
    	Tune the cabs???   Are you kidding... I use open bass cabs... 3/4"
    plywood, what ever size the wood's in.  I guess I've got a lot to learn
    about bass gear, thanks for the free education, Brian... So, in and
    open cab, I would definately ummmmm..... violate my EV12L, right?
171.16$orry to have to tell you thi$HAMER::KRONELECTRIFIEDWed Jun 12 1991 16:502
     buy another cabinet for the jobs that require full output.
    -Bill(who lost that option when he started usung a 2x18"cab!)
171.17Remember the Outerspace Band?PIPPER::KELLYJTone droidWed Jun 12 1991 17:5514
    Take the bass direct into the PA for added horsepower, using a direct
    box.  Use the amp for your onstage sound.  IMO, 50watts can be loud 
    enough, but you'll never get the tone and clarity you want, because
    a bass transient (like when you pluck the string) asks for huge
    amounts of power for a very short time.  With a 50watter, the signal
    will get clipped at loud volume.
    
    Use a 200 or 300watt head into a separate cabinet.  A Thiele enclosure
    with an EVM15B would be great (and reasonably portable).  I know two
    bassists who use 15L's in Thiele boxes with no problem.  One plays
    in a reggae band (:== *huge* bass sound ).  
    
    BTW, tuning the cabinet (re: back a few) is accomplished by adding
    a wooden plug to cover part of the port.  
171.18Rockin' Out in Wendell, MARGB::ROSTLet me in to do the Popcorn!Wed Jun 12 1991 18:3010
    >           <<< Note 171.17 by PIPPER::KELLYJ "Tone droid" >>>
    >                   -< Remember the Outerspace Band? >-
    
    Funny you should say that, I just heard part of their cassette "Initial
    Contact" the other night.  I was interested in checking it out since
    I've known Klondike for a few years but never heard him play.  
    
    Back to our regularly scheduled program....
    
    							Brian
171.19I use and EV-15LWASTED::tomgDanger: Slow Thinker at WorkWed Jun 12 1991 19:487

FWIW, I use an EV15L (400W version) in a thiele cab. I drive
it with a PVMKVIII head which does about 200W or so into
8 ohms. 

It's plenty loud.
171.20Oh Ayuh...DNEAST::GREVE_STEVEGreee Veee KingTue Jun 18 1991 22:2522
    
    
    
    	Brian, or anyone else who's interested in jumping in.... now I've
    go another question...  I'm thinking of going with a 2x10 on top of a
    1x15 for bass speakers, so I've found a 2x10 cab and it's 4 ohms so I'd
    have a 
    
    1   1   1
    - + - = -
    8   4   2.7 ohm cab... ought to make my bassman work it's little butt
    
    right?   I've also got this brand new 70 watt Celestion speaker and so
    far, I'd never think of playing bass through that, but what if I put it
    in one of those acoustic suspension cabs, where the air is giving the
    coil something to push on... Would I be able to play bass through it
    without damaging it???  Would I have a cooler blues bass sound than the
    2x10???  Or.. should I just get the 2x10 ready made cab???  Huh, Bri,
    Huh???  [;^)
    
    
    Gree Vee
171.21Watch it mixing loads like thatGOES11::G_HOUSECarpe diemTue Jun 18 1991 23:287
    Umm... I don't think you want to mix loads going into the amp like that
    Steve.  The smaller load will get more of the signal then the bigger
    load (ie, in your example the 2x10 will be a lot louder then the 1x15).
    
    Also, I didn't think the Bassmen liked a load less then 4 ohms...
    
    Greg
171.22I should have been more clearDNEAST::GREVE_STEVEGreee Veee KingWed Jun 19 1991 12:049
    
    
    
    	Rats, I wasn't clear, Greg... I'd take the load into a y-cable and
    plug er right into the speaker jack.. yep, you're right, Bassmens don't
    like loads less than 4 ohms... I'm wondering how big a deal it would be
    using a 3 ohm load?
    
    Steve
171.23Which cab gets more power?GURU::tomgDanger: Slow Thinker at WorkWed Jun 19 1991 13:0611

On a related note:

	Won't more of the power output go to the speaker box with
the lowest total ohm rating? I thought I noticed this when I had 
a 1x15 (8ohm) and 2x10 (4 ohm). I thought the rig sounded kinda
thin and wimpy since I was driving the 10's more than the 15. In
my mind, I'd want to drive the 15 with more power than the 10s.

Does this make *any* sense.. ;^)
171.24RGB::ROSTI believe she's a dope fiendWed Jun 19 1991 13:1929
    Re: mixed ohms
    
    Yeah, the lowest impedance sucks more of the power.  Remember that the
    voltage across each leg of a parallel connection is equal (vs. series
    connects where *current* is equal).  Anyway, quick math, asuuming the
    cabs are 4 and 8 ohms:
    
    Power is P = V X I, but since V = I X R, P = (V X V)/R
    
    So since each cab has the same voltage across it, the 4 ohm cab sinks
    *twice* the power of the 8 ohm cab.  Of course, efficiency of the cabs
    comes into play, too...if the 8 ohm cab is super efficient and the 4
    isn't, the balance will be better, vice versa and things get even
    worse.
    
    I would *not* run that Bassman at 2.7 ohms.  I've overheated and
    smoked mine a few times (no damage beyond some melted insulation
    luckily) trying such shenanigans.  You could rewire the 10s in series
    for 16 ohms (they are likely two 8 ohm drivers in parallel) then this
    in parallel with the 15 gives 5.3 ohms and more power goes to the 15.
    
    Tom, I'm still trying to figure out how you power speakers in your
    mind, do you get a better tone than with tubes or transistors?  
    8^)   8^)
    
    GreeVee, real men play with 15s anyway  8^)  8^)  Forget those wimpy
    10s.
    
    						Brian
171.25WASTED::tomgDanger: Slow Thinker at WorkWed Jun 19 1991 13:328
re:.-1

	Nyuk, Nyuk. It took a while but I finally got it..

;^)

-t
171.26The basicsBTOVT::BAGDY_MMETALGod in the making !Thu Jun 20 1991 10:595
        Remember that current,  no matter how small/large travels the
        path of least resistance.
        
        Matt
171.27Works cool!DNEAST::GREVE_STEVEGreee Veee KingThu Jun 20 1991 17:0015
    
    
    	Yes.. I got it now.. turns out that I have a cab that I put an 8
    and a 10 into just to dub around with.. wired them in series for a 16
    ohm load and then connected that in parallel with my re-coned 8 ohm
    gauss.. and the gauss absolutely sounds like it's getting more signal,
    really the perfect setup, cos' I wouldn't want a bunch of juice going
    into a 2x10 cab instead of the gauss... woiks great.... How come when I
    turn it up I start to get distortion???   I know dumb question, but is
    it the same as guitar??  Is that the amp???  I figured that I never be
    able to get this gauss to rumble... or umm, did I mess up my ported cab
    design???  [;^)  Oboy one more thing to be compulsive about!
    
    
    Greee Veee
171.28Why Do You Think Bassmans Sound Great With Guitars?RGB::ROSTI believe she's a dope fiendThu Jun 20 1991 17:2220
    You will defintiely get distortion with a Bassman.  Varies from amp to
    amp.  Mine hits grunge at about 5-6 and melts down above 7.
    
    The speaker cab can be causing *extra* distortion.  Possible causes:
    
    1.  Bad port design.  You have a frequency band where the port is not
    driving enough and the speaker excursion is max (i.e. the voice coil
    can't go any further) and you crank up a bit more....this is how you
    blow speakers.
    
    2.  You have a lousy seal and the cab is resonating due to air leaking
    out somewhere.  Easy to check by running your hand (or ear) over every
    seam, etc. and also check where the speaker mounts to the cab (you
    *did* gasket it, I hope).  I had a leaky gasket give me an ugly buzz
    with my 12" til I sealed it up.
    
    In both cases, the distortion will appear only on some of the notes
    (typiclly the lowest ones).
    
    						Brian
171.29try this greHAMER::KRONELECTRIFIEDThu Jun 20 1991 17:403
     also remember to dampen the cabinet.....you know
    fiberglass insulation stapled to the back and sides to 
    eliminate standing waves that turn your signal to MUD!
171.30Airtight yes, fiberglass no..but!DNEAST::GREVE_STEVEGreee Veee KingThu Jun 20 1991 19:0725
171.31Love that bottom!PLOUGH::BRIDGEleather loverTue Nov 30 1993 12:286
    I'll soon be in the market for a new bass head. Any ideas?
    
    Thanks
    
    John
    
171.32PeaveyNWACES::HICKERNELLThe dog ate my software!Tue Nov 30 1993 13:2623
    I just upgraded to a Peavey Mark IV head and I love it.  It's a solid
    state amp with:
    
    210 watts @ 4 ohms
    300 watts @ 2 ohms
    
    2 channels:
    Channel 1 has bass, midrange, treble knobs, bright switch, graphic EQ
       switch, biamp output high/low frequency cutoff knob
    Channel 2 has bass, midrange, treble knobs, bright switch, graphic EQ 
       switch, midrange frequency parameter knob
    
    Also:
    High and low input jacks, effects loop for each channel, 5-band graphic 
    EQ, biamp high/low output jacks, line output jack, preamp input jack, 
    channel footswitch jack (I don't have the switch)
    
    In other words, it's got lots of power, and lots of tonal and
    configuration flexibility.  It's also not very heavy and promises to be
    reliable, from everything I've heard about Peavey.  I got it used from a 
    music store for $225 US a few months ago.  And it sounds great, too!
    
    Dave
171.33USPMLO::DESROCHERSTue Nov 30 1993 13:516
    
    	see 2.2729 for a mint condition, great sounding bass
    	amp and cabinet.  Pretty sure it's still available.
    
    	Tom
    
171.34go to the sourceRICKS::CALCAGNIWill work for '59 Les PaulTue Nov 30 1993 14:046
    How's your back?  The old Ampeg SVT is still the benchmark for bass
    amps.  There's also a new, high tech rackmount version (still all tube)
    called SVT-III (I think; Brian?).  Mucho lbs and $$$, but still
    unsurpassed
    
    /charles_atlas
171.35Current Ampeg HeadsTECRUS::ROSTFretting less, enjoying it moreTue Nov 30 1993 14:2913
    Re:.34
    
    The original SVT is no longer made.
    
    The SVT-II at $1900 list is the successor, still big, heavy, all tube.
    
    The SVT-III and SVT3-PRO are rackmount models with tube preamps and
    solid state power (350/450 watts respectively) for $850/$1100 list.
    
    There are also some all-solid state models, SVT-200 and SVT-400
    ($800/$1100).
    
    							Brian
171.36NWACES::HICKERNELLThe dog ate my software!Tue Nov 30 1993 14:397
    re: .34
    
    If you decide to go this route and find a used one, be sure the tubes
    are still available.  I don't know what the SVT used, but some of the 
    old Ampegs amps used tubes that are difficult to find nowadays.
    
    Dave
171.37GOES11::HOUSEYou sick little monkey!Tue Nov 30 1993 15:165
    re: .31
    
    It'd probably help with the recommendations if you told us your budget.
    
    Greg
171.38PLOUGH::BRIDGEleather loverTue Nov 30 1993 15:505
    Greg,
    
    I'd like to stay around $500....
    
    John
171.39DABEAN::REAUMESix Flags over SyracuseTue Nov 30 1993 16:077
    
    
      My old Ampeg Portaflex used 7027A tubes. These are very hard to
    find these days. I think a good amp tech could re-bias the amp
    to use a more common tube. I'm not sure how *different* these 
    other Ampeg tubes are.
    
171.40RICKS::CALCAGNIWill work for '59 Les PaulTue Nov 30 1993 16:3512
    The original SVTs used 6146 power tubes (6 of em); these put out a
    healthy 330 watts RMS.  Later models used 6550s, which dropped the wattage
    to a "puny" 240.  Ampeg purists favor the 6146s, and these are not hard
    to find according to Ken Fischer (owner of Trainwreck Amps and generally
    acknowledged Ampeg guru).  Just don't expect to walk into Daddy's and
    buy some.  I believe 6550's were used in 70's and 80's Marshall guitar
    amps (the American models) and are easy to find.
    
    $500 (or less) will get you a clean used SVT head.  Play one, and you'll
    never want anything else.
    
    /bill_wyman
171.41POWDML::BUCKLEYviolent new breedTue Nov 30 1993 17:162
    Heard a bassist the other night using an SVT with a Rick -- reminded
    me how good that amp sounds!
171.42LEDS::ORSIGotInAt2WithA10+WokeUpAt10WithA2Tue Nov 30 1993 17:3010
     Re - What Rick said

     Yeah, the 6146 is what alot of Ham radio guys use in their
     transmitters. They're not hard to find, just check the back
     of Amatuer Radio mag...there's loads of ads...sorta like in
     Guitar Player mag.

     Neal

171.43GOES11::HOUSEYou sick little monkey!Tue Nov 30 1993 17:319
    If you want a similar sound at a lower price and weight, try an Ampeg
    V4B.  A friend of mine uses one and I've always liked the sound.  100
    watts, all tube.  He retubed it recently and said he had a little
    trouble finding some of the tubes, but not *too* bad.
    
    For very low weight, GK makes/made some fairly nice sounding solid
    state stuff.
    
    Greg
171.44TECRUS::ROSTFretting less, enjoying it moreTue Nov 30 1993 17:525
    >Play one, and you'll never want anything else.
    
    Except a derrick to move it.
    
    							
171.45GOES11::HOUSEYou sick little monkey!Tue Nov 30 1993 18:251
    And you thought that Twin was bad...
171.46KDX200::COOPERThere's a moon in the sky!Tue Nov 30 1993 19:5717
    The attached is IMHO.
    
    This is the 90's.
    
    Ditch the cranes, derricks etc... and get yourself a GK800, Trace
    Elliot, Hartke etc...  I've heard SVT's, and while they sound GREAT,
    I don't think they sound so much better than the GK/TE/Hartke offerings
    that you can afford to supply the person-power to MOVE one.
    
    :-)
    
    I saw the bassist for Vinny Moores band had a Crown power amp anna 
    BBE bass PreAmp running thru a 8x10 Ampeg cab.  Twice as sweet, 1/2
    the cost and weight.  :-)
    
    jc
      
171.47GOES11::HOUSEYou sick little monkey!Tue Nov 30 1993 20:044
    Actually, a friend of mine used to use a Yamaha SPX-90 as a preamp into
    a Crown DC300 power amp into some sort of folded cab.  Sounded great!
    
    Greg
171.48LEDS::BURATIboss buratoTue Nov 30 1993 20:129
    HeadRoom == SVT;

    You know those MTV sports shows? They should have an SVT competition
    with a distance event where bass players run carrying an SVT head. Lead
    players can choose between the Twin event (carrying a twin in  each
    hand) or the Major event (two Marshall Majors). Results are measured in
    inches.

                                        Eddie Van Halon 
171.49FREEBE::REAUMESix Flags over SyracuseTue Nov 30 1993 23:1711
    
    
             <-S-W-R-> = good stuff.
    
             I don't admit to knowing diddly about bass rigs, but I've
          gigged with a few players with SWR rigs and they all sounded
          HOT!
             I thing Ampeg made great gear for their time, but just like I 
          deal with my guitar gear, I don't want gear that I can't by parts
    	  for in a couple years.
    
171.50PLOUGH::BRIDGEleather loverWed Dec 01 1993 09:467
    
    Thanks for all the suggestions. Now where can I find all these amps to
    give them a try? I live in Derry N.H. and the only store around me is
    Daddy's. And all you can find there is Peavey.
    
    John
    
171.51good gear is timelessRICKS::CALCAGNIWill work for '59 Les PaulWed Dec 01 1993 10:407
    >> I thing Ampeg made great gear for their time, but just like I 
    >> deal with my guitar gear, I don't want gear that I can't by parts
    >> for in a couple years.
    
    Hey Boom, ya mean like Kitty Hawks? :-)
    
    re SVT pulls, I love it!!!
171.52A Few Northern MA DealersTECRUS::ROSTFretting less, enjoying it moreWed Dec 01 1993 10:428
    Ampeg can be found at Turn 1 Music (is that the right name? used to be
    Hamel's) in Chelmsford, MA.
    
    EU Wurlitzer's has SWR, Hartke, GK...you'll have to travel to Boston.
    
    Performance Music in Burlington has SWR.
    
    							Brian
171.53Miscellaneous ramblingsNWACES::HICKERNELLThe dog ate my software!Wed Dec 01 1993 11:2143
>      My old Ampeg Portaflex used 7027A tubes. These are very hard to
>    find these days. I think a good amp tech could re-bias the amp
>    to use a more common tube.

    My Ampeg B-25 head uses 7027As.  They're not exactly easy to find, but
    I think they're around.  A friend who does amp work told me he thought
    the head could be modified to use one of the more common power tubes,
    and it would sound similar.  Mine has been extremely reliable, but who 
    wants to do that with a head that's already twenty-odd years old?  It 
    also uses a 7199 tube that's at least as hard to find.  (What's that
    tube do, anyway?)  And it uses a 5AR4 (GZ34) rectumfrier tube, which 
    may not be a good thing for bass.
    
>    $500 (or less) will get you a clean used SVT head.  Play one, and you'll
>    never want anything else.
    
    The problem is, Rick may be right.  %^)
    
    Personally, though, I tend to agree with Coop - there's some outstanding 
    stuff out there now, and for $500 you can get a very nice head, 
    especially if you buy used.  The fact that it's lighter and I have a bad 
    back has absolutely *no* bearing on this opinion.  %^)
    
    re: Ron's competition
    
    And the keyboard players have to push a B-3 that's on wheels.
    
>    I live in Derry N.H. and the only store around me is Daddy's. 
    
    Far be it from me to recommend a store like *that*, but that's where I
    bought my Peavey head.  And don't write off Peavey until you've tried
    them; I think they make good stuff, if you don't mind paying less.
    
    The Music Factory in Salem (and Manchester, I think) carries Hartke and
    G-K amps; last time I was in there they had a used (recent, solid state)
    Ampeg head as well.  They're good people to deal with.
    
    The Music Workshop in Salem carries Fender and has a number of used
    amps.  They're good people, too, but I wasn't that impressed with the
    Fender amps I played through (although the prices were sometimes
    impressive).
    
    Dave
171.54more ramblingsRICKS::CALCAGNIWill work for '59 Les PaulWed Dec 01 1993 12:2020
    Back when I was shopping for a bass amp (circa '89) I bought a used
    GK-400 on approval.  It blew up the first time I used it.  Around the
    same time my band saw Victor Bailey playing at the Willow in Somerville;
    his GK-800 blew up on stage, and the other players made comments to the
    effect that this was not an uncommon occurrence.  That's when I decided
    to buy SWR.
    
    SWR is nice, but you'll have trouble finding even a used one for $500.
    
    AMP made a nice head (ask Brian Rost), similar to the SWR but a bit
    less warm sounding.  No longer made, hard to find used, but if you
    do it'd probably come in under your budget.
    
    The Trace gear I've seen is extremely heavy AND expensive; the worst
    of both worlds.
    
    I found SWR the best compromise between sound and weight/convenience.
    If my back were up to it though, I'd drop it for an SVT in a minute.
    
    /bootsy
171.55TECRUS::ROSTFretting less, enjoying it moreWed Dec 01 1993 12:265
    Re: .54
    
    Hey, Rick, tell 'em about how the SWR blew on ya, too  8^)
    
    							Smokey
171.56oh yeahRICKS::CALCAGNIWill work for '59 Les PaulWed Dec 01 1993 12:385
    True, my first unit from SWR arrived with shipping damage;
    crunched inner carton, minor case buckling, erratic performance.
    They eventually replaced the unit, it's been 4 years of bliss since.
    
    /ralph_nader
171.57If you don't *have* to have tubesZYMRGY::samI made life easy just by laughingWed Dec 01 1993 16:2110
   I absolutely love my BBE 383 bass preamp.  I think I only paid about $189
   for it, new, from Thoroughbred Music.  You would of course need a power amp
   and a rack, which would add to the expense though.  Or do like I do and run
   the preamp direct into the PA.

   And I agree with the previous note that Peavey stuff shouldn't be ignored
   just because of the name.  They make good, reliable gear for reasonable
   money (REAL cheap used) and it doesn't sound bad at all. 

   -- Sam
171.58GOES11::HOUSEYou sick little monkey!Wed Dec 01 1993 17:071
    Not gonna say anything about your Carvin, Sam?
171.59LEDS::BURATIboss buratoWed Dec 01 1993 17:167
>    re: Ron's competition
>    And the keyboard players have to push a B-3 that's on wheels.
    
    Close, Dave. Actually it's the B3 PULL. Very much like a tractor pull.
    Takes place in a muddy parking lot at 2:45 AM.

                                            Jimmy McGruff
171.60ZYMRGY::samI made life easy just by laughingWed Dec 01 1993 17:4416
   Carvin?  Oh yeah, my *other* bass amp!  :-)

   That one's real nice too.  Small package, 150w into 1x10 speaker with 
   external speaker jacks.  About $330 new from Carvin.  And even with just
   the 1x10 its plenty loud to play with another guitarist and drummer, unless
   you crank it up to the pain threshold all the time.

   Eventually, when I break down and buy a power amp, I'm going to go out of
   my BBE's "high" biamp to the Carvin and it's 1x10, and the "low" biamp 
   output to the new power amp, which will then power my 1x18 cab.  Should be 
   able to induce involuntary bowel evacuation from the audience with that 
   setup!  (And not just from my (lack of) playing ability!  :-))  I used the
   above setup last night (sans power amp - the Carvin supplied all the power)
   and it sounded great.

   -- Sam
171.61My quest goes on....PLOUGH::BRIDGEleather loverThu Dec 02 1993 10:5617
    
    I went to Hampshire Music yesterday and tried a  "Tube Works" amp.
    A little thing with 300w's 2-10's and a tweeter. It had a switch for
    solid state or tubes. There's also an ext cab you can buy with 1 15'.
     
    GREAT sound!!!
        
    Anyone else try one?
    
    And what stores would be good to go to in Boston?
    
    Thanks for your help!!
    
    John
    
    P