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Conference napalm::guitar

Title:GUITARnotes - Where Every Note has Emotion
Notice:Discussion of the finer stringed instruments
Moderator:KDX200::COOPER
Created:Thu Aug 14 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:3280
Total number of notes:61432

164.0. "HELP, My baby is broke!" by CARLIN::LAMBERT (Tuna fish for brains!) Wed Feb 11 1987 12:31

hi, i've got some problems with my 12 string acoustic as illustrated below.
i'm looking for two things - suggested methods for correcting the problems, and
the names of reliable guitar repair techs who could do the work. i live in
the hudson/marlboro massachusetts area.


                                                       bridge pulling up from
                                                       the box, warping the top
						       here---------+
                                                                    V
             __________________________________________\________[]--_________
+-----------/________________________________    |      \                   |
+-----------/                                \   |       z   loose wiring-> |[]
                               cracked here-> |--|        \  here, causes   |
                                              |__|         \ obnoxious noise|
                                                 +----------\---------------+

any and all suggestions welcome.

-max-
T.RTitleUserPersonal
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164.1Steady hands,glue and lot's of Patience!RAINBO::BUSENBARKWed Feb 11 1987 14:45104

	Wow,you do have problems! But nothing that any guitar repair person
can't handle! Or you can do with a lot of care and patience. Here is how it
could be done in worst case situation. Remove all strings from the instrument.
	Both problems(actually three)are probably due to excessive string 
tension common among 12 string's which are tuned to a regular guitar tuning 
instead of using a capo and tuning the instrument down a step in pitch.(E-D)

WARNING!!!!!!!!

	I highly reccomend having a repair person do this work as it may
cost you more if you do it unless you have wood working tools and place to
perform the surgery and the possibility you could do DAMAGE to your instrument!

	Tools needed:
		Jorgenson Clamp or a Large C Clamp(with homemade wood shims)
		Deep throated C Clamps(2)(with homemade wood shims)
		Butane Torch(used for plumbing)
		Putty Knife(medium quality)
	Materials needed:
		Titebond Yellow glue
		Wood Scraps(for shims and protection)

	First problem:

		The crack in the neck which is located in the Heel can be 
fixed with the use of a "jorgenson clamp". If there is a lot of space in
the crack you can try to work as much glue into the crack as possible. To
make this easier set the guitar up so that gravity works to your advantage
perpendicular to the floor or work bench. In order to do this you may need
to hang the instrument up with string or small rope,but if the neck is damaged
or loose it would be better if it is standing up or leaning against something
with the frets facing away from you tied down so it won't fall Once you have 
worked enough glue in so it will not take anymore use your"jorgenson clamp"and 
tighten it down slowly cleaning the excess glue off as you tighten the 
two handles of the clamp. You will know when the clamp is tight enough 
when the crack is a very fine "glue colored line". I've used Titebond
yellow glue and been very happy with the results. I've found Elmers white
glue to be watery. On cheaper model guitars,(Yamaha etc.) this part of the
heel is sometimes a separate piece of wood and that may be part of the 
reason it cracked. If you don't have a "jorgensen" clamp a large C clamp
can be used but it will be neccessary to use a wood buffer in between the
fingerboard and the steel of the C clamp at both ends(the bottom of the heel
and the top of the fingerboard).

	Second Problem:

	A bridge which is loosening off the top a guitar is a little trickier
as you need to feel or look inside a guitar to make sure it is only glued
on the guitar. Some manufacturers bolt the bridge on from the top and decorate
The top of the holes with a dot inlay which could mean disaster when you try to
remove the bridge and you end up with two large holes in your top. If you
don't have a decorative inlay look anyway the bolts or nut's could be covered
with a matching wood.
	If you are sure that you have investigated this and the nuts are removed
then you will need a medium quality putty knife and a butane torch which is
used for plumbing purposes(usually $12 to 15 at your local hardware store).

	The next step is for people who are patient and have steady hands!

	Light up the torch and heat the putty knife evenly so it is not red
hot and work it slowly under the bridge. You should be melting the glue and
working it towards the sound hole Slowly!!! The effect is like a hot knife
through butter. When you feel resistance from the knife back off and reheat
the knife with the torch. If the knife gets stuck try to use warm water to 
loosen it from inbetween. A dripping wet towel should be used to avoid 
scorching the wood under the bridge and the water and steam will help loosen
the glue and the bridge. Repeat this process untill the bride comes loose
freely. WARNING! If the hot putty knike touches the finish on the top of the
guitar it will melt it!
	To reglue the bridge you will need a deep throat C clamp with wood 
shims. These can be had at a musicstore for $15 to $20 dollars. Clean all
glue off of the bridge and the top of the guitar with a wet rag and let it
dry thoroughly for several hours! Apply glue,place the bridge in position
and clamp it down using the wood shims to protect the insides and the top
of the bridge and clean up excees glue. Let the glue dry for at least 24
hours.

	Third Problem:

	The bow in the top of the guitar is the hardest to correct and
if you can live with it leave it. If it is cracked in the center seam 
someone who is very competant repair person should do the work. It requires
time and tools to do the work and the expense may not justify the work.
	Also once the strings are removed the bow may correct itself
but once weakened it will reappear unless you use a light gauge string
and tune the instrument down to a D and use a capo.

	In summary this job is not difficult for a competant guitar
repair person and should not be expensive to take care of the first
two problems. The loose wiring just needs to be resoldered which you
can also do if you have access to a soldering iron. If any of the above
is sounds scary or too much to handle I would suggest not attempting it!
	String recomendations and tuning techniques are discussed
earlier in my reply.
	I am not familiar with guitar tech's in Mass.,so maybe someone
else can offer recomendations. Send me some mail if you have questions.

						
						Good Luck!

						    Rick

164.2Oops!RAINBO::BUSENBARKWed Feb 11 1987 15:124
	Something which I forgot to mention is if you have a pickup
permanently installed in your bridge with wires hanging down from it
you will really want someone else to do the bridge repair so you
won't risk breaking wires or melting there insulation. 
164.3name droppingHAMSTR::PELKEYLoco boy makes goodWed Feb 11 1987 16:0317
    	ONCE upon a time, in Littleton Ma. was this english
    guy named Henry Brown.  I don't think he's in littleton anymore,
    He used to live right up the street from Kimballs ice Cream
    factory, andworked out of his house.
    
    (I'm not sure if he's even around anymore, perhaps someone else
     will know.)
    
    	He specialized in acustic guitar repairs.  He was damn good
    but it took along time to get your peice back.  He was always busy.
    
    	The guy that works for Wurlitzer in Boston, (Eddie something
    or other) comes highly recommended by some people.
    
    	The best one I've seen yet at fixes though, (Outside of Henry
    Brown) is Rich Mcduff in Shrewsbury next to Spags on Rte 9.
    The store is named Mcduffs'.  Call first and tell him what you got.
164.4\STOWMA::LANGEWed Feb 11 1987 16:434
     I suggest you bring your guitar to EU Wurlitzer in Worc. on Park
    Ave.    Steve Morrill is the guitar repairman there and is known
    for quality guitar work at a very reasonable price.
    He's there Mon-Wed, and at the Boston Wurlitzer Thur/Fri.
164.5i thought the obnoxious noise was YOU!!SKYLIT::SAWYERThu Feb 12 1987 19:006
    
    mcduffs ...the WIZARD!...ritchie...
    
    can do anything!
    
    
164.6here's your man!!!CASPRO::BGOSSSun Feb 16 1986 11:3416
    
    NO NO NO, Henry Brown is no longer in Littleton, But I have the
    man for you, His name is  Thomas KNatt Luthier, he is located in
    Concord MA. His phone number is 369-7912. I have had him work on
    one of my guild's and he does excellant work,he also teaches classes
    on how to build guitars,violins,lutes,dulcimers,hurdy gurdies,and
    harps. When I checked out Wurlitzer and all of the other shops for
    miles they all wanted about 4times the money that he wanted..
    
    	Also the other shops told me I needed things that I didn't need...
    This guy knows his stuff!!!! I also had him refret my guitar,he
    does excellant work like I said and at a very fair price....
           
    Besides I'd rather trust someone who builds custom guitars himself.....
    
    	good luck, Brian Goss
164.7HAMSTR::PELKEYLoco boy makes goodMon Feb 17 1986 12:578
    
    < Note 164.6 by CASPRO::BGOSS >
    
    < NO NO NO, Henry Brown is no longer in Littleton.

    	Hey like I said, I wasn't sure if he was still there.  I'd
    like to know where he's gone off to my self.  (In case I ever
    need to get a hold of him again)
164.8Guitar building seminarCHAPLN::LAMBERTDrowning man, seeking anchorSun Feb 23 1986 19:2940
hi,

thank you all for your suggestions - the good news is i don't have cancer!
the bad news is, my 12 string is in the terminal phase of old age.  it
turns out that the guitar is just cheaply made, and the cheap parts are
all fagged out and failing, and there's nothing that can be done.

thanks to brian i got in touch with thomas knatt?  he's a custom acoustic
guitar maker who lives in concord and he holds seminars for folks who're
interested in building their own guitars.  i was interested so i called him,
and then went over to talk to him. he seems a nice sort, very laid back, well
spoken.  here's the scoop on the seminar. 

Depending upon number of participants, $10.00 - $12.00 per class and he
says it takes about 20 classes to cover all the aspects of construction.
The participants decide how often the class meets.

Lots of homework, about 150 to 200 hours total time to make the axe.  If you're
a woodworker, less.  If you're not, then you can add another $70 to $100 for
some woodworking tools, primarily a "rotary plane?" (no i don't know what it 
is), which runs about $50.00, then another $50.00 worth of files and chisels
etc...

Materials, for a cheapo guitar and lots of experience add $70.00, for a real
good guitar, add $200.00 (not counting the pieces you screw up while your
learning).

so for approximately $540.00, you can build your own "good" acoustic guitar
and learn enough in the process to become a bona-fide guitar fixer/technician

I'm going to do it, 'cause my beloved sigma 12 string has terminal cancer and
is disintegrating before my very eyes.  If your interested you should call him
and let him know. 

	thomas knatt
	89 riverside ave.
	west concord, ma.
	(617) - 369-7912

-max-