Conference napalm::guitar

    Supplementary question...  What's the weather going to be like in
    NH and Colorado Springs in mid-March?  I just dragged myself off
    the beach where the temperature was well over 100.  I think I'm
    going to have to pack some warmer clothing...
    (sorry to abuse this conferernce)
    	leon

    Last time I checked (about a month ago):
    
    	Les Paul Standard (Rosewood fingerboard) running around $ 750.00
    	Les Paul Custom (Ebony) running around $ 850.00.
    
    	Used Les Pauls can be found between $300 and $550. 
    	Best place to look is in the Want Ads. 
    
    	Hope this helps.
    	Dan
    	

    I got my Les Paul Standard with custom sunburst painting (the one
    like Jimmy Page used) for $650 at Hampshire Music in Nashua, New
    Hampshire.

    About the weather in good old New England, March is still winter.
    It is cold.
    

    Weather ?
    
    Bring snow shoes.  Leave the tanning lotion down under.  
    
    In these parts the weather doesn't start looking up till april.
    
    

    Weather in Colorado Springs will be unpredictable.... Certainly NOT 100
    degrees.  Prepare for 50's F, maybe 60's if its warm, maybe 20's
    and 18 inches of snow - we usually get a good dump of the stuff in
    March/April.
    
    As for guitars, I suspect prices are much better near the coast
    than here.   If you want, send me some mail on PYONS::JENSEN - I
    can show you the local shops.   However, I really believe you can
    get a better deal back east.
    
    steve

    Thanks for all the pointers, both $ and degrees F.  Merrimack is
    definitely on my itinerary, not so sure about Colorado Springs,
    so if I buy anything at all it'll probably be in the east.
    
    However, if you see someone in shorts and a t-shirt, frozen to the
    window of your local music shop, just detach me and mail me back
    to Australia.
    
    Thanks again
    	leon

    Is $750 w/case a good deal for a brand new sunburst (tobacco or
    cherry) Les Paul Standard??
    
    joe.

    I don't know, you tell me? ;^)
    
    	I've heard a few things about Les Pauls:
    
    	o	1960's Les Pauls are way out of my price range;
    
    	o	1970's Les Pauls are not the best in terms of quality.
    
    I also don't want to bother driving here and there all over the
    state looking for a "good" guitar out of the dozens of used ones
    on the market (actually, the latest WantAdvertiser didn't have too
    many LP's in it and the ones it did have were all overpriced). 
    I've heard that $350 to $550 is the going rate for used ones; $450
    is about what a used 1970's LP is really worth??
    
    I'd also like to get the warranty that goes with a new one.
    
    joe.

    The last Gibson price list I have shows $1080 for a Standard in
    Red or Black, $1200 for a sunburst finish w/case.
    
    I'd expect to spend $660 or $720.
    
    Danny W.

    Just what does seasoned mean? How did they season the wood, naturally
    or by applying some sort of techhnology. When it comes to my firewood
    only time will season it.
    
    Dave.

    re: .14, .15
    
    Wood can be seasoned by air drying, which takes many years, or by
    kiln-drying, which can be done quickly. Many luthiers and players
    think that air-drying produces better wood, but you have to wait
    for it.
    
    Despite what .14 has been assured, Gibson has kiln dried their wood
    since the '50's. The only difference between the seasoning on an
    '88 guitar and a '68 guitar is the twenty years between their dates
    of manufacture.
    
    Danny W.

    So "well seasoned" = Seriously dry?
    
    D.

    Well-seasoned = seriously and uniformly dry. Kiln drying can reduce
    the moisture content substantailly, but not as thoroughly as 5 years
    of air drying, and there will tend to be more moisture deep in the
    wood, which can cause instability.
    
    It is virtually impossible for a large factory to rely on keeping
    a suitable supply of air -dried wood, but small shops often do.
    Frankly, I think for solid bodies this is of no consequence, but
    flattops and archtops can benefit.
    
     Quartersawn maple has a tendency to twist, so curly maple necks
     are usually laminated. Jimmy D'Aquisto and Roger Borys use one-piece
     necks of well-aged maple; the twist has been seasoned out before the
     neck is shaped.
    
    Danny W.

    	
    	re.2
    
    	Why couldnt I have bought mine in 1987?
    	
    
    					Steve

	Not really the right place as it isn't a Les Paul, but...

	I have a 1981 Gibson Spirit II, tobacco sunburst, PAFs etc,
	in mint condition (mine from new)... anyone know what it's
	worth these days?

	Jonathan.

    Is the LP Studio the only one that comes in white w/gold hardware?
    
    thanks,
    Mike

    I believe that it is now. I have an 89 Standard that is white with Gold
    hardware and cream trim. Nice guitar. I don't believe white is an
    option any more on the Standards, or Customs.
    
    Brian

    
    The poster I have on my wall shows Alpine White/gold trim for the
    custom.  Did this change?
    
    Kevin
    

    the artic white is still available on customs.
    
    
    
    check out Gibsons website and see!
    
    						Ian

    My Mistake...I know it's not available on the Standard. 
    
    Now... does it come standard with cream or black binding ?
    
    Brian

    Well I better move on the white LP Studios w/gold h.w. while I have the
    chance.  The best price I've seen in town had them backordered since
    August '94 and they just got a shipment in.
    
    Mike

    Ok...
    
    My guitar "semi-retirement" is over.  My new setup will be very
    similar to that dude in the cranberries ... Gibson Les Paul and
    a Roland JC-120.  
    
    Anyone in here got the skinny on what a new Black Beauty (the
    three pickup jobbie) is currently going for?  Yes, I am sitting
    down!  8^)

    a black custom i could see, but a jc-120?? ...would leave a lot to
    be desired in terms of a distorted sound, i would think...
    but i don't mean to refuel the tube vs. s/s holy wars...
    
    no idea about the 3-pickup version, but I saw a 2-pickup job at
    mr. c's recently, and I believe the mslp was somewhere around
    $3500... subtract the typical 30-40% and you still have a hell
    of a visa bill...
    
    /steve

    
    
    http://soundnet.com/guitarnet/lespaul.html
    
    Small sample, but it might give you some idea....
    
    Kevin
    

    I predict Buck will dump the JC for a Marshall within 6 months :-)

    Oh gawd, I should have clarified.
    
    
    I'm playing more "clean" these days (horrors, I know!), hence the 
    JC-120.  But also, have any of you heard a JC-120 on "10"?  Awesome!
    
    Anyway, that is only one half of the set-up -- I'll be picking up
    a 60wt Peavey 5150 combo for the real dirty stuff.  
    
    Personally, I'd love an old Marshall 100wt head w/o a MV, but I
    think my stack days are over with.  I am just "over" carting them
    around!!

    
    
    
    From Daddy's, and it's a 2 PU/single coil jobber.
    
    
    Lp Custom 54/Re-Iss Hd3 Ln ..........$1,699.99 .......  GIB5582
    
    Kevin
    

    I predict that Buckley blows off the JC120 for a MP1, for that
    bland-clean sound.  :-)
    
    ...A JC120 on 10?  I heard a JC30 (baby 120) on 10 once and I think it
    may have been the singular cause of my tinitus.  I can't even IMAGINE a
    120 WFO.  Yike!

Well, here ya go Buck,,

There's a JC120 at Mr. C's in Marlboro, not sure what the
tag is, but Jim's always ready to move equipment no one
seems to want (JC120 awesome for clean, sure, but get the 
barf bag out for anything else.  Kind of expensive for one 
sound but hey, it's your dough right!)  
You ought to check out a Crate VC30-112 before you do 
anything serious though. the amps is a small mind blower,
and I think it's pretty versatile, GREAT clean sound..
(No chorus thou.) good cruch..  excellent amp for 
the $$$$$$$

As far as the 'pauls go, the black custom (2 humbukers) 
is gonna be around $2,300 to $2,400 new (the retail,
as mentioned before is $3,499.)  Now, the thing I'm not sure
of is if you can get a new black beauty gibson with 3 'buckers.

Also, last I heard about the Customs was that Father Gibson
for some reason, was making the 'customs a limited run only
model, and only in ??BLACK?? and of course, they'd start to 
get rare as time goes on. (Yet another ploy by gibson to 
drive us crazy, seems to be working..)

of course, not that you should go this route, but Epiphone
has a black beauty knock off...  never seen one up close
and 'poisonall, but it is in the cataloge, it got a chuckle
out of me when I saw it.....

    I sent mail, but I'll expand on Rays comments:
    
    Ray Said> "GREAT clean sound..(No chorus thou.)"
    Ray Said> "good cruch.."
    
    I'll take it one further - these things have gain up the keester too!
    Hi-Gain metal tone ranging from 'Pilots to George Lynch to TNT!
    
    

    
    
      Maybe that's why Buckmeister asked about my REXX 1602/601? Hmm - 
    JC clean and REXX mean all rolled into one. I'll tell ya - I've looked
    inside the REXX gear and few things are as solidly built.
      But then again - sales are an "off-line" issue!

    Actually, I *would* suggest you check out the Epi version of the Black
    Beauty.  Mr C's had just what you were looking for a month ago (not
    sure, it may still be there); a black Custom with 3 pickups.  This one
    was a little on the heavy side for an Epi Paul (they're usually pretty
    light) and had rather big tone.  And we're talking a fraction of what
    even a used Gibson would cost.  Worth a look, at least.
    
    /rick
    

Mr. Goodwin, why not chime in with your report from
the 20 minutes you spent with my Epiphone Sheraton
on your hands??

Gotta tell ya guys, these Epiphone's are nice guitars
for the money....

    ... indeed...  I had the opportunity to test drive Ray's
    Epi Sheraton (ES-335 clone), and if it weren't for the
    different headstock, I'd have a tough time telling it from
    the Gibson...  It has a beautiful finish and a quality
    feel to it... tone as big and warm as any 335 I've played
    in the past...  very playable with great action...
    In a price/performance comparison, it's got the 335 beat,
    hands down...
    
    It's going to take a lot of extra $$$ for it to say Gibson
    on the headstock, and you're really not getting any more
    guitar for the money.
    
    /Steve

lesse,,  

$3,299 list price for ES335, @40% off $1,979

$1,200 list price for Epi-Sheraton, currently selling for $680..

Is the Sheraton as well built with time and meterials ?
Hands down, NO!  but is the 335 worth the extra $1,300 ???
not to my ears...

The Black Beauty, if you can find a Gibson USA, is probably
gonna be like $2,600,,, buy the Epiphone black Beauty,
an amp, a tuner, a gross of picks, and spare strings, and 
still have dough left over to fix your car, and take the 
wife out to din-dins...

not a bad deal.  I'd buy another epi in a heartbeat,
probably pick up an Emperor next year....  (Cuz I likes 
dhem big fat arch tops!)

    
    Ray's epi has a quality feel to it that's apparent as soon as you pick
    up the guitar.  Not to mention it's a cool sounding guitar as well,
    nice fat, rounded tone.  
    
     Lv

    
    Fwiw, I am lookin into that Epi black beauty (as well as the Epi
    goldtop!)

let us know what you think...

You may not like it, or you may just be where I was,,
I was in the black with spare cash, could have bought
an EPI paul, had money left over, but then I realized
I was only gonna be able to go down the road once, so
I coughed up the $1,200 and bought a USA Standard paul,
haven't regretted it either, it's nice.  

    
    
    For the current 3-pickup version, have a look at 
    
    http://www.gibson.com/products/custom/1995/historic/electrics/1957.html
    
    You could also buy a regular black Les Paul Custom and add the 3rd
    pickup yourself, for probably a lot less than the cost of this one.
    
    BTW, note that the description says that the black beauty has a 
    mahogany *top* and body.  Is that true to the original?  I thought
    all of the 'pauls had maple tops?
    
    Kevin
    
    
    

    
    Customs from the 50's were all mahogany -- it was a point that gave
    Les Paul fits -- he claims that Gibson got his specifications
    backwards,  he had intended the custom, the more expensive model,
    to have a maple top and the less expensive gold top to be 'plain'
    mahogany,  but the opposite is what actually happened.
    
    When Gibson first 're-issued' Les Pauls in 1968, the custom was
    changed to the more popular maple top configuration, and has been
    that way until the 90's historic black-beauty re-issue came out.
    
    FWIW - I came close to buying one of these a few years ago, *until*
    I found out they were all mahogany -- I much prefer the tone from
    the maple top.
    
    I believe that Gibson is currently making a black custom with maple
    top, which is a different model than the historic all-mahogany black
    beauty reissue.
    
    Me thinks they like to keep us confused...
    
    /Steve

    And also don't forget, Les envisioned these instruments as "jazz"
    guitars... oy ve!
    

Yea, twas a fine jazz axe indeed, till the first marshall
stack got fired up,,,  oooops,,,,,  great vision, wrong
planet...

     I have a '71 or '72 Cherry Sunburst (2 pickup) Custom LP with it's
     original case in excellent condition. What would I expect to get
     for this on the market? The only changes are "chrome" Grover tuners
     that don't exactly match the rest of the gold hardware, but it's far
     enough away so it's not an eye sore ya know? I was rushed for tuners 
     back ~1977 and I grabbed whatever I could find since I had a gig that
     night.
    
        Maybe a nice trade for a PRS?
                                                                              
    
    Fred (who has this Gibson LP that doesn't see alot of action these days)
                                                                                

your best bet would be to check out the price book that's
published for this..  Maybe someone at the Guitar Center
or something, could look it up for you or point you to this
book.. guitars are usually listed by year, and by condition, 
and there's three of four prices based on the condition of the
instrument.

My guess: not seeing what kind of shape it's in; but Since 
it's about 25 years old, it could be up around the 2k area...  
although the change in tuners could have devalued it, as it's
no longer stock..

However, finding a buyer for it, maybe a challange...
When ever the price is in the four figure range, the
audience gets thinner.

    re Fred's Custom
    
    my guess would be more like $800 - $1000.  Daddy's would probably
    hang it for $1200, but they're overpriced on their used Pauls.
    

I think there's a big enough disparity here,  he needs
to check the book, I suppose...

I still think it's worth more...  although he would sell it
quickly at that price, but ya know, it is considered
vinatage at this point in time.

    re: Fred
    
    I just looked it up at the Gibson web site.  They have an appraisal
    function from Vintage Guitar Magazine...
    
    	1971 Sunburst LP Custom -- $900 - $1200 depending on condition
    	1972    "     "     "   -- $850 - $1200 depending on condition
    
    /Steve
    

Rick, you da man..

thx steve...

    RE: Paul Custom
    
    Thanks for the info. I guess it's like anything, where the guitar is
    worth only what someone will pay for it.
    
    It's in good condition and worth something on a trade for something
    else. If something catches my eye I'll put it on the block and see
    what happens since I'm not "currently" being bitten by the GTS bug...
    however tomorrow could be a different story.  ;^)
    
    Thanks guys!
    
    
    Fred (who's playing his G&L ASAT more than any other guitar these days)
    

    Fred,
    
    The Official Vintage Guitar Magazine Price Guide(5th edition)say's $1.0
    to $1.2k as a low to high in excellent condition.
    
    Rick
    

if you walk into the Guitar Center, they're probably the ones
that'll give you the fairest shake down on a trade in.

You can probably expect them to ceom with 150 to 100 bucks
from what you coudl do private sale.


Most other places do the blue book...

    
      About 8 years ago I sold a friend of mine a candy apple red Les Paul
    Custom w/ EMG pickups for $450. I paid $550 for the guitar about five
    years before that. I never should have sold it! 
    
      I still have the "showcase edition" grayburst Les Paul. It is
    essentially a standard with EMG humbuckers and a different finish.

   < I paid $550 for the guitar about five
   < years before that. I never should have sold it! 

Along these lines, I had a '73 gold top with baby (soap bar)
humbukcers..

Bought it in Feb. of '74 at Union Music in Worcestor for
$450 w/case...  Kept it till 1979, when I traded it at
E.U.s in framingham for a '79 Ibanez Musician...  Doug,
at E.U.s (who is no longer with us,, Cancer victim) 
offered me $450 for it on trade,, didn't loose a penny,
thought it was a cool thing at the time...  Now I
see these things seeling for over twice what I paid..

(mine was in pretty good shape too.)

So, who knew..

    
    yeah, we've all got our sob stories...
    
    I used to own a 1968 LP custom that I sold in the early 70's
    for $200....   who would've known back then that it was
    investment grade...  current value is somewhere between 2-3K.
    
    /Steve
    

    Hey guys, stop beating yourselves up! We didn't know back then this was
    all going to happen and nobody told us to hold onto our stuff. The way
    I look at it, we all have stories of things we wished we had today.
    Mine? It was a 1959 Gibson Les Paul Gold Top with a repaired broken 
    headstock, but otherwise in mint condition that I could have bought
    for $75.00 with case!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Yes, I should have bought it and sent it to Gibson to be repaired, or
    have another neck put on, but who knew? Did I tell you about that 1961
    Corvette in dead mint condition with 20,000+ miles that I could have
    bought for only $1,000!!!! 
    
    Yep, we can't beat ourselves up for the things, we sold, or passed up
    in life since it'll just make us cRaZy!
    
    Exactly...  "who knew"?
    
    DAMN!   ;^)
    
    
    	Fred
    

    Does anyone care to debate the use of the term "vintage" in .51? 
    
    Mark (stirring things up a bit)

    
    Just an observation...
    
    The current Want Advertiser is loaded with Les Pauls.  The $700 and 
    under versions are all Studios and Specials, $700-1000 puts you 
    into a newer Standard or an older Custom, and $1000-2000 buys the 
    newer Classic/Premium Classic models with the nice wood.
    
    Kevin
    
    
     

    
    
    
    last week I saw a Invader in a Pawn store for $350!It looked like
    someone had been playing softball with it.
    
    
    an LP on a budget....!get a 2nd hand Epi and stick in some of the
    Seymour Duncan/Seth Lover pick ups in it!
    
    						ian